Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Stories from the Sales Frontlines
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
View it as GM = Wal Mart; Honda = Costco. They both sell competitive products for competitive prices but have very different approaches.
Touche! Great analogy!
I send my insurance requirements out for bid ever 2-3 years. State Farm has won my business the last couple go rounds. No claims, yet. But, my agent at least calls me every 3 months or so to make sure I'm still breathing.
Unfortunately, it is a dog eat dog world out there....and you can't protect the little guy who has a friendly but inefficient business model.
It was happening in Florida when we are there. Bass Pro Shops wants all kinds of concessions made for a new 140k sq ft store near Brandon FL. Merchants are up in arms because they have been around for years and helped build Brandon into a bustling town. Bass pro will bring people from all over to shop...it's a destination store. Town will get more jobs (lower paying ones), and probably more tax dollars. But, what happenned to the guys who supported the town for all those years?
There is little loyalty, and shoppers just want the best possible product for the lowest possible price. If you can't make a comparable product to the leader, you have to find a new and better product, or a cheaper way to produce it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have heard horror stories of cancelations after a single minor fender bender. I'm told they cherry pick their insured as well and won't write a policy if you have less than perfect driving record, credit etc.
Of course I'm sure every company has horror stories told by disgruntled customers. Just hear more of them about SF.
As to cost I can believe they are more expensive. I once did an online quote request just to keep my current company honest and they were about $1000 higher for my fleet. $1500 vs. $2500. To be fair I get a better auto price from my current company because I bundle it with my home owner/fire insurance.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"Of course I'm sure every company has horror stories told by disgruntled customers. Just hear more of them about SF."
It might be related to your specific locale. All insurance companies try to limit new policies to preferred risks. Many will cancel your policy if you have a major "at fault" claim or many "no fault" claims. It's their underwriting divisions that determine risk.
There are 4 or 5 companies who wanted $2000+ per year to insure me and my car. They don't have competitive rates for South Florida. Geico was the lowest at $1400 a year ($700 every 6 months).
All companies use your credit score as a major determinant for ratings. I was informed that lower credit rating scores are indicative of less favorable driving characteristics! How they can determine that is beyond me.
Another underwriting consideration is how long you remain with your company. People who jump from company to company are given lower underwriting ratings.
I stayed with Liberty Mutual for 2 years. Each year my premiums went up 35-40%. Remember, I had no claims and perfect driving record. And they wonder why I changed companies.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
When I was in private practice-about 30 years ago-SF was known for treating their insureds very well but being real b*****ds when dealing with the other parties.
One time I had an auto accident case and my client suffered some fairly serious injuries. The SF adjuster offered to settle the property damages right off the bat and then discuss the PI claim a bit later. I agree and so he sends me a check for the property damage; but when I looked on the back I found language stating that endorsing the check operated as a full release of any any and all claims against SF's insured.
I sent it back and told the adjuster "Nice try..."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just ran across this by accident. State and excise taxes on Gasoline for 2009-2013.
taxfoundation.org/article/state-gasoline-tax-rates-2009-2013
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
"Just ran across this by accident. State and excise taxes on Gasoline for 2009-2013."
It is truly amazing how much of the cost of a gallon of gas goes to federal, state and local taxes. They want to raise the federal taxes on gasoline but some members of Congress want to make some of the Interstates Toll Roads. Some want both!
IMHO, if it is inevitable that it has to be one or the other, then I would support a raise in gasoline taxes. To make Interstates Toll Roads would cost a tremendous dollar amount to add toll booths, employees, toll readers, etc. With a tax, it goes directly to the Treasury.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
We're #1! We're #1!
I may cry....especially since it was revealed that here in NY 77% of highway taxes are spent for non-highway purposes. Then they have the nerve to have the president come to town and call for more taxes.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
IMHO, tolls would be fairer than gas taxes. As more fuel efficient vehicles become prevalent, the gas taxes collected will decrease even though road use stays the same or increases.
With the new electronic tolling and plate readers, it really wouldn't be that expensive to add toll systems. Here in MA, the toll booths are all being converted over to automated systems which will speed up commutes and reduce overhead at the tolling agencies. I've been using EZ-Pass for 10 years or so and it makes life so much easier. Further, since all toll systems in the US have to become compatible in the next 6 years, one transponder will work all over the country. That alone would be welcome news to Florida residents who have both a Sunpass and EPass.
I see parts of Florida are implementing a toll by plate system but with the surcharge, having a transponder makes so much sense.
I think it's about statistical correlation, nothing more. Bad credit score does't make you a bad driver, but increases a statistical chance that you may be one. Insurance is about calculating risk based on statistically observed correlations, not about making a psycologigal judgement about person's state if mind. Whether there is an actual psychological connection between being careless with your finances and your car, it could be a good graduate project.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
you found the one cheap aspect of living in NJ. We were 48th!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
This field is covered under the umbrella of behavioral economics or its related cousin behavioral finance. Many years ago economists considered this topic on the fringe of mainstream economic theory. But all that changed after Gary Becker (Professor of Economics and Sociology at the University of Chicago) won the Nobel Prize in 1992 for his work in behavioral economics.
Because of its interdisciplinary approach behavioral economics is studied extensively in the social sciences, neuroscience and finance. Do a http://scholar.google.com/ search and search and see what pops up.
To all our veterans and active duty soldiers who post here or read our posts, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your sacrifices as you served in our Armed Services. No matter what war or skirmish you served, I know I speak for all of us here on SFTSF on expressing our heartfelt appreciation.
I also want to thank my Dad who served in WWII and the Battle of The Bulge (where he earned his Purple Heart and Bronze and Silver Stars) for risking his life to save his comrades in his unit.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mike - well said. While I never served myself, several close relatives have.
My godfather (my dads uncle) served in the pacific in WW2 and fought in the battle of Guadalcanal.
My moms half brother was in Europe at the end of WW2.
My uncle did a stint in the navy, then reenlisted and served 20 years in the air force - three tours of Vietnam as a tail gunner on a B-52.
My dad spent 4 uneventful years in the navy after high school - the two best things were him meeting my mom on base and learning carpentry skills, which he used foe decades afterward.
And my cousin spent 20 years in the air force reserve, including deployments to Iraq and gitmo.
Thanks to all who serve!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Edmunds New/Used car ratings, A B C D F
I was just fooling around on Edmunds and found this guide that I had not seen before. They have a A B C D or F rating on most new cars, etc. Interesting that it appears that Edmunds never found a German car that they did not love. Most of their testers must be fairly young with performance as their main criteria for a good rating. I can understand that, but a lot of the ratings are very subjective and nowhere did I see reliability used as a criteria. I think that is a big mistake. If your car is in the shop, or in your garage and won't start, that would certainly affect my rating.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I just checked out quite a few 2014 models and found the ratings very helpful, and probably accurate for what they judged. Honest evaluations of comfort, visibility, ergonomics, braking, steering, acceleration, storage space, build quality, and a section on fun to drive.
I found the ratings to be very helpful, fair, with solid information and they gave good reasons for their findings.
I think you can check CR to determine reliability, I think this is a great guide to check the things that may matter to some people...like me.
Thanks houdini for pointing this feature out...I found it interesting and informative.
btw, they gave Mercedes ALS a B because it wasn't a great car to drive, but gave Nissan Altima and Mazda 6 an A because they were good cars in most categories. Talk about "fair and balanced".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree, and I also like the site. Good for comparisons, etc. Did you notice that they also have used car ratings? Not a lot yet, but some. Hopefully there will be a lot more soon, both new and used. Not the end all, but a useful tool. Depending on how important a category is to you, you could do your own weightings, etc.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
How do you see these ratings?
When I was car shopping, I found their little blurbs written about the particular cars heavily biased in their opinion of how they want the car to be. Somewhat like Motorweek. I see the Motorweek boys loved the BMW 2 series in Saturday's program.
Edmunds still has a credibility gap for me just like Consumer Reports. Much of what the popular media says is based on what people want them to say about cars based on lagging indicators.
The Malibu description says, "Less rear legroom than competitors; transmission makes 2.4-liter Eco model feel sluggish; oddly shaped trunk space in the 2.4-liter Eco." That's not true. There's more rear legroom than the Hyundai and Kia competitors that Edmunds loves. The legroom spiffle seems to have taken hold as the convenient way to bash the Malibu. And the 2.4-liter Eco model hasn't even sold for the last half of the 2014 model run; I'm not even sure it was sold in the first half.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
imid, did you see my original post...a couple of posts before the one you replied to.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I didn't see the Malibu listed yet in this particular site:
Edmunds Ratings
I really think the comments made ring true. I would definitely use the site to find out basic facts. It seems objective and gives reasons why they say what they do.
We have a Passat, and they didn't give the Passat a glowing report, but I think the comments they gave were right on.
Houdini, I think the used car comments would also be worth looking at before buying a particular car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Are any of you guys in this area? Not in Florida although that's where it's listed.
http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/4487277207.html
Maybe you could tool over and pick it up for me as it represents one of my hooptie fantasies. Perhaps negotiate a little lower price.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Old farmer, do you really like that thing? Might I suggest some form of counseling?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Great looking car oldfarmer. Even I could be interested in driving around in a hooptie like that one.
and only 28K miles!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
lol....but I kind of like it too! Maybe because it breaks every rule about sensible styling. Actually, I think it looks like a mini-limo. Maybe of will drive it wearing a cap and uniform.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I wish the same to all veterans as well as those who provide support services to veterans in health care, education, and housing, etc.
Here is my dilemma (btw...did you know one in 10 people think dilemma should be spelled D-I-L-E-M-N-A, and they were taught that by a teacher in school. I always thought it was spelled dilemna until I read an article about it).
I love my 2012 BMW 535, I think it is the perfect car for me in so many ways. However, it is coming up to 3 years this fall. I am kind of getting antsy for a new car, maybe order a 2015 near the end of this model year. The problem is, major design changes won't happen until 2016 for the 5 Series, and for the Audi A6. I'm not sure about Mercedes E Class but I think they got their change for 2014. I don't really want to get a newer version of exactly the same car I have, so getting a 2015 535 doesn't work for me. I guess I should consider a 2015 E Class or A6, but I would prefer to stay with what I am used to...media centre and GPS in BMW.
What a dilemma!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"I guess I should consider a 2015 E Class or A6, but I would prefer to stay with what I am used to...media centre and GPS in BMW."
Wait until 2015 (Aug or Sept), brand new and totally redesigned 2016 E Class coming - to look like a smaller version of the S Class - that's what I am waiting for!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
driver.....Perhaps you're not an Acura fan, but glottal say, for what they're selling the RLX for ($10K+ off MSRP), it might at least be worth a look. Outside of that, you have the usual candidates....5 Series, A6, E class. While we've bludgeoned GM here lately, and I have personally torched Cadillac, the CTS might be worth a look, also.
For whatever reason, Acura seems to get little respect from the automotive press. Personally, I have owned a 2003 Legend, and a 2006 RL, and they were two of the best cars I have had the pleasure to own. I would definitely give the new RLX a look.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Heck yes, always like that square style and those seats.....like visiting grandpa's living room.
As for counseling, if I didn't do it all the times my wife suggested it what makes you think you can convince me?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oldfarmer....I remember back in the early '90s, I was doing some long term contract work in San Jose, CA. The company I was doing the contract for stipulated I had to stay in their corporate housing (which was actually right in downtown San Jose). After the first week of me submitting expense reports for taxis, they set me up to pick up a rental car, given I was going to be there for another couple of months. I forget the rental agency but they gave me a New Yorker that looked identical to that car....right down to the color. Drove it daily for two months.
I don't remember anything that made it untoward in any way. I do remember it rode nice, and handled decently given its size. I don't remember it being particularly quick. I "sank" into the seats, not necessarily "sat" in them.
I think their "firm" asking price is too strong. I was thinking more like $3K if it proves to be as clean as it looks. I seem to remember that those cars were still based on the "K-car" platform. And, there can't be much in the way of demand for them, either. And, they were made during a time when Chrysler wasn't known for the reliability of their cars....quite the opposite.
I'd jump on it.....for $3K...given you'd have to pay to have it transported.
houdini...I can't figure out why the RLX doesn't get much love. It's styling isn't necessarily polarizing (as the previous model's was). It's handsome. It isn't the best performer in its category. But, it's right in the middle of the pack. It has all the tech anyone could want. And, as you point out, it's reliable as can be. It's fuel efficient.
I test drove one (albeit briefly). It handled well. Had a great ride/handling balance. It was quick. It was comfortable....very well put together....very upscale materials inside and out.
If I were in the market, right now, at the price they're selling them at, I'd be sitting in an Acura showroom before I went anywhere else.
Driver, seriously, If you really like the 535 why not keep driving it? I assure you, the day after the warranty ends it will start right up and run like a top. And it will keep doing that for a long long time to come. Don't be a spoiled brat just because of a factory warranty.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I thank you all for your comments. Starting with Mike, that would be the most sensible plan. Then I can also see how the bmw 535 changes too, and I think Audi's A6 will also have a major change. I will have to get thru another year and a half and not get new car buying impulse. Maybe you and I should join a support group.
GG, One friend has an older Accura and I like his car, it is comfortable and solid. I did sit in one though just after I got the 535 (an Accura dealer put the plastic bug shield on the 535) and it just didn't feel the same. A little more plastic or lower grade materials, and just not thought out as well......sightlines not as good, closed in feeling - lack of light - dull interior. I checked Edmunds ranking that Houdini found and it got a B compared to the A's MB, BMW and Audi got.
This was one comment, "Some will consider the RLX expensive for what it offers compared to the more well-established, segment-leading European competitors" and I think it is quite accurate. Cadillac ATS, it gets a B as well mainly because of small backseat area and small trunk. I need space to carry people and goods, especially for the Florida trip. I have more trust in MB, BMW, Audi than I do in GM at this point. My wife lived in Europe for a few years and she likes Euro design and refinement, so that would be a hard sell for me.
To be cont'd
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think the best part about Accura is it will be more reliable than the G - 3 (Audi, BMW, MB). But, bmw has a 4 year bumper to bumper and Mercedes offers one. Audi probably offers one too. Accura does not have a b to b plan. Read the review on the rankings and compare the B Accura gets compared to the A the G3 get.
GG, if it were based on wanting the most reliable car at a good price, with some driving pleasure mixed in, I would say the same. I don't know how many new cars I have left, so I want to get the one that I really want...not, just make do.
That would be the sanest thing to do....but, buying or wanting a new car is not sane...it is completely emotional. However, like I have said, I don't think it costs that much more to drive a new car every 3 or 4 years than it does to keep a car for 8 years. If it costs $2000 or $3000 a year, that's the cost of a pack of cigarettes a day, or a bottle of half decent wine, or two Starbucks coffees, or a round of golf a week for that matter.....I don't do any of those things.
I do think I will try to keep the 535 until next Fall, and see what the 2016s are like. At times I do feel like keeping the 535 going for as long as possible.....just for the fun of it. Sometimes a 15 year old car can look better than a new one.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'd buy a car like that for the nostalgia and the milage, not because it was anything special. That 3.8L only put out about 150hp.
Yes that was the final limit to use of the K body. They didn't last in salt areas. That's why a rust free one is so cool.
I'd also look closely at the transmission as that was another weak spot. I agree that $3k would be my limit.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think driver wants the security of a warranty covering those $1000 widgets that seem to go the day after the warranty expires. You can't drive a car like that with bits and pieces falling off.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"I think driver wants the security of a warranty covering those $1000 widgets that seem to go the day after the warranty expires. You can't drive a car like that with bits and pieces falling off."
There is a point to consider in your comment! A BMW or a Mercedes is an extremely expensive car to maintain, not to mention parts and labor costs after the warranty expires. I don't have to pay for maintenance (included in my sales price) and neither does driver's BMW. But once the warranty is up, a brake job is over $1000 and yearly maintenance is around $400.
My "B" service (every 2 years) is close to $700. There is peace of mind to consider as well.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
There is peace of mind to consider as well.
If I was driving from Florida to Ontario like driver100 does I might not want to take chances either but with my mainly local driving I have driven some really shaky vehicles. On occasion I have had to bum rides or climb a fence to get to a phone to call for assistance. One of these days I'll be too old for that type of adventure...but not yet.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Risk means excitement --- by not minimizing potential problems, you never know what your going to get. Towed a 1600 pound upright travel trailer with a 4 cylinder Datsun in 1980. St. Louis to the West coast then back through Yellowstone and the Rockies. Probably 1000 pounds too much with a lot of drag. White knuckled it through high winds, steep grades [up and down], and one monster thunderstorm in S.D. Could have all been killed at least 7 times. Made it fine --- very lucky but a real adventure.
"Could have all been killed at least 7 times. Made it fine --- very lucky but a real adventure."
Jay, if I want adventure at my age (or even driver's age), I'd drive to Orlando and spend some time at Disney World's Adventureland - watching rather than participating - if you get my "drift!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
You and Mike are correct...that is a big consideration. I have a friend who gets a new Mercedes every 5 years when his bumper to bumper is up. I think we calculated it costs him $7000 a year to do that. If he drove it another few years the cost might come down to $5000 a year. This way he has a complete warranty, and trouble free, worry free driving for 5 years. On the other hand, I could probably buy an extended warranty for $4 or $5, but then that brings the difference down to $1000 a year.
Better to trade in and get the pleasure of a new car with all the latest technology, not to mention peace of mind.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I know that feeling. In about 1992 I had a supervisor job, but if a delivery person was sick I had to fill in. I was driving a stupid propane powered Aerostar van, what a hunk a junk that was. No traction in snow with a light rear end, and on a windy day it felt like you could be blown of the road....as the wind hit the side of the van. The other big problem was the propane fuel....when you ran out of fuel you had to find the switch under the dash and switch to the auxilliary tank.
The only good thing is I can really appreciate driving a well made car these days...not to mention being very thankful I am able to do so.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Better to trade in and get the pleasure of a new car with all the latest technology, not to mention peace of mind.
You bring up a good point about "technology." It used to be that if you upgraded every 3-5 years or so, you'd get some new stuff but nothing earth shattering. Nowadays, 3-5 years is a lifetime when it comes to additional safety features, electronics etc. The manufacturers know this and have done a damn good job of getting "the hook" in us to have the latest and greatest. As just one example, I rather like the Ford Sync system, have it in two cars now and am used to the features, and if all else was equal between a Ford vehicle and another make, something like Sync could be the swing vote. Pretty brilliant move by the automakers actually.
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
My fleet- and how long I've owned them...
1995 318ti Club Sport: 18.5 years
1999 Wrangler: 12 years
2004 X3 2.5: 8.5 years
1996 Speed Triple: 8 years
2007 Mazdaspeed 3: 7 years
1975 2002: 4 years
2009 328i : 2 years
No worries about "peace of mind" here- no car payments either. Not many new sleds interest me in the slightest; the M235i, Cayman S, WRX STi, maybe the new M3... that's about it.
My son does want something smaller than the X3, so it will probably come down to a choice between a 1er and a BRZ...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just in the last few years alone there have been huge advancements, rear view camera, lane change warnings, more airbags, off centre crash testing, cars that can stop on their own, park on their own, read what the car two ahead is doing, keep you awake, better GPS units, bluetooth, hardrive and USB capability, keyless drive and entry........and, I thought I wouldn't enjoy or need these, but then again, when remote controls for TV's came out, I thought who is so lazy they couldn't get their a-- out of a chair once an hour to change channels?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good, but you probably don't drive long distances in those cars and you can fix them or look after them yourself. I enjoy my car, but, the only thing I want to do is drive it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Maybe I spoke too soon, Driver as I forgot about your Florida runs and needing an ultra dependable car. I was just thinking about a few cars I really liked then tried to upgrade and lost big time when what I got was barely half the car I had. The most recent being the Solara that I liked a lot then traded for an Avalon then the acceleration problem on the news and wifey wouldn't ride in it...poof gone. Loss of a great car that is no longer made.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
My job requires that I drive 1,000 to 2,200 miles per month, and I usually split it up between the two oldest BMWs and the Mazda. The X3 has required one tow-at 130,000 miles-to the dealer(my fault, for waiting too long to R&R the cooling system). None of my other vehicles have ever left me stranded. I've driven the 1995 to Alabama and Georgia for CCA driving events in just the past few years; at the time it had over 125,000 miles on it.
My point is that-just like when people buy a new car "to save money on gas"- the numbers almost never justify the purchase. If you like that new car smell and or the latest bells and whistles, be my guest, but know that buying a new car and flipping it every 3 years is the most expensive way to own a car.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive