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I did a price check on CarsDirect and not surprising the Malibu appears to be heavily discounted.
For a 2014 Malibu 1LT with a MSRP of $24,435, INVOICE of $23,845 can be had for a Target Price of $20,095.
$3,000+ below invoice, Wow! Sounds like a fire sale to me. Which begs the question, what is invoice? Perhaps Congress should have a hearing on that too. Even the brand new Buick Encore can be purchased through CarsDirect below invoice. It is about time that dealers and manufacturers become more forthcoming with this opaque pricing structure.
The comments presented in defense of the fairness of Fox News do, IMHO, support the wide held belief that Fox News viewers are not truly analytical.
Fox News presents its version of the news, just as does any of the cable news providers. There can be no doubt Fox News is heavily skewed toward the extreme conservative, dare I suggest Tea Party, view of the world. Therefore, it would seem to follow any person believing Fox News is fair and balanced does not hold an analytical view of the world.
Benghazi as a fair example of Fox's presentation of the news. The fact is there is nothing there other than the actions of a group of murderous people and the tragic death of several Americans. However, Fox News plays with along with the GOP agenda for 2016 and constantly strives to present Benghazi as a major failing of President Obama and Senator Clinton.
Seriously, what difference does it make if the Administration called the events an act of terror, a murder, or a bunch of thugs out to kill Americans? It is scary to consider some folks consider Benghazi the equal of lying about weapons of mass destruction which ultimately resulted in thousands of casualties.
Other infamous examples of Fox News' presentation of news include its views on climate change, gun regulation, and their annual war on christmas.
On the other hand, MSNBC certainly overplayed Chris Christie's bridge gate
And then there is the hillarity of CNN's neverending coverage of the missing jet liner.
Let's face it...CNN got the most viewers possible by reporting on the missing jet. TV viewership is down so you got to do what you got to do....play to your audience. That's what FOX and the others do.
I think it would be more truthful if FOX said their news was "unfair and unbalanced". It is definitely news with an agenda.....far from neutral.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I recently saw a Lexus commercial with the usual disclaimer "professional driver on a closed course do not attempt." The problem is the disclaimer was shown as the car was being driven normally down a normal street. So my question is is Lexus telling people that you shouldn't drive a Lexus on the street?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Obviously a left-wing plot to try to get gas powered cars off of our streets and highways.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
@bwia. Why become more opaque on cost? Maybe the should stop publicizing invoice. You don't see that with other products, especially expensive obesity like electronics, jewelry or furniture! It really did always seem odd to me.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What I want is for the car manufacturers to give the exact total cost of the product when it exits the factory. A grinders paradise. Having said that, I doubt GM is making much on the heavily discounted cars. The luxury stuff and trucks have the best margins. My 02 Chrysler Concorde Limited listed for 30k. My 2012 Buick LaCrosse AWD listed for 41k. Even before big discounts on both, my Buick is definitely worth 11k more based on features, safety and performance. You can get 7k off the Buick if you work. Making money in the car business isn't as easy as it used to be.
My handy dandy inflation calculator tells me that the $30k you spent in 2002 is now worth just over $38K in 2012. So really only a $3K delta - which makes the Buick even that much more of a deal.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
To do that (give the exact total cost of the product when it exits the factory) would be conditional based upon the number of units produced in a specific run. The more units produced, the less it costs per units - called marginal cost differentials.
The real question is, "...what is the real invoice of the car when the dealers receives it?" It's what Edmunds says it is, +/- a few hundred for advertising, etc. The basic difference is what incentives the manufacturer allows or provides dealers with. If inventories are quite large for a specific series of models, then they usually will provide incentives until the inventories drop.
Then there is the hold-back that the manufacturer gives the dealer as a credit against invoices for each car sold. That amounts to about 2% on average per car. That hold-back is what dealers use to pay for interest on the cars in inventory, heating and air-conditioning, electricity, real estate taxes, corporate state and federal taxes, office personnel who handle and process all the paperwork, etc.
So, when Edmunds publishes an invoice, and right next to it there is a "can be had" price of $3500 below the invoice, it's simple to understand - manufacturer incentives to the dealers is the impetus for that price. It is not the "actual" invoice of the car billed to the dealer. It's a credit the dealer receives after the car is sold.
Some manufacturers provide "coupons" to the dealer as an incentive based upon numbers of cars sold, on average, by that dealer. So, the higher volume dealerships will receive more coupons for that incentive. But when coupons are distributed based upon the above criteria, once the coupons are gone or used up, there are no additional incentives available.
So, actual invoice is a fixed price or cost which is billed to the dealership for each and every car added to inventory. Incentives, hold back, etc., are "credits" given to the dealerships if incentives are available.
I remember my Mercedes Dealership had about 15-20 "coupons" for $10,000 incentives for a specific targeted car or consumer. Once those were gone, there were not more to be had. I believe, IIRC, it was to be used for repeat and/or excellent customers who frequently buy that particular model, etc. The consumer did not know about these, IIRC, but it provided the dealership with a nice credit toward their invoice.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Sounds logical to me, snake! But the antithesis to your statement could be:
"Professional driver on a closed course - do not attempt unless you hire a professional driver to drive you around in your Lexus!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Have you noticed that Rolls and Bentley and a few other manufacturers do not provide Edmunds (or anyone else that I know of) with the invoice to their vehicles? Lexus was that way for a while, but I believe they now publish invoices for Lexus.
I know you can get a Rolls or a Bentley at a slight discount or no cost features added in lieu of a discount. Ferrari, on the other hand, is different - it is what it is - MSRP and higher.
Can you imagine what would happen if every vehicle produced was sold at the MSRP price? Old timers would go into apoplexy - "...pay MSRP (sticker) for that car - you've got to be kidding!" would be their response.
But it would have to be accomplished "industry-wide" in order for it to be effective. We've seen what happens to dealers and manufacturers who placed "one price tags" on their vehicles - they are defunct. Saturn tried that and, IIRC, Mullinex in Ohio and here in Florida tried that, but where are they now?
If I could be assured that the deal I was getting on a "one price" vehicle was the best deal available to anyone and everyone, I would feel differently about MSRP. Even appliance dealers publish MSRP on their refrigerators and TV's, ranges, dishwashers, microwaves, etc., and then show their sale price. They don't show invoice of course, but they advertise their discounted price. Auto Dealerships do that all the time - just look in any newspaper and you'll see their discounted price or lease price with all the fine print at the bottom. Is that the best price you can get on that car? Of course not - most hagglers can get hundreds taken off that price - even a thousand or two depending upon the brand.
So, until MSRP as the final selling price is used worldwide, you'll always think you didn't get the best price because you haven't negotiated.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
There is a locally owned group of dealers here in Denver that has been very successful with their 'one price' approach. They own a MINI, BMW and Honda franchise.
They make up the retail price by having none of the dreaded 'dealer fees', which in Colorado can run $400-700 per car, and by having top-notch service. My daughter has bought two MINIs from them, and the experience - both during the sale as well as for service - has been beyond reproach.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I'm with you, Mike. However, bear in mind that "one price" does not have to be MSRP. Most electronics and appliances are sold at "one price" stores (like Best Buy, or internet stores), but the items are still discounted vs. MSRP - and we all expect that. The only difference is that the discounts are usually applied equally to all offered units of a given model sold at the same time frame. You know, "Memorial Day discount", or "BOGO", or whatever else. This means two different people in generally same circumstances would most likely pay same price. There may still be differences, like somebody buying a whole kitchen will likely pay less than somebody just getting a dishwasher, or there may be some special discount for associations (military, or such), but that is something people understand and usually have no big problem with. What majority of people hate is seemingly random nature of pricing they get at dealerships and bazaar like nature of a transaction, where one person gets a starting asking price that can be thousands higher than another - and final transaction price can vary even more.
I often hear from sales people that it is what "people want". If that were really true, we would have auctions for bread at a grocery store and little cubicles set up at Sears and JC Penney with negotiations for clothing items. The current situation and people acting like it is what they want stems from years of conditioning and response to the way cars were sold to them - not from their actual desire to haggle. People learned that if they don't haggle, they'd treated like idiots and charges will just keep on coming, never stop. If you're willing to pay MSRP, you're surely want that paint sealant, seat protection and you'll surely shell out to pay "whatever fee" of mere $700, or better $900. You'll then surely want GAP insurance for that car that you purchased with cash and extended warranty on that 2-year lease. Peace of mind, man, peace of mind. People learned that when they come with some "off the wall" offer, they may not get the car, but they will get the salesman try to get them an actual price, not commission for all-expense-paid Hawaii vacation.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I realized that, dino. Mullinox dealerships tried that - one price, below MSRP, take it or leave it!
I believe Mullinox started in Cleveland and then opened a Ford Dealership here in Coconut Creek about 13 years ago. They built a beautiful showroom and huge multi-level garage for inventory. They went out of business and the dealership is now owned by AutoNation. It's still a Ford dealership, but they don't have much inventory and their multi-level garage is just about empty. I wonder why AutoNation doesn't build up that dealership. Coconut Creek and the adjacent Margate have several of the highest volume dealerships in the world. A well run and well inventoried Ford Dealership would do quite well here. Holman opened up a combined Lincoln and Volvo Dealership adjacent to them. But neither brand sells well.
Until manufacturers get together and decide that there should be one price paid for a vehicle, this business will continue to cause frustration and anxiety for customers. Unless you know how to buy a new car (do the research, determine rebates and incentives, determine invoice, add sales tax and license fees, and whatever dealer fees are existing at the time) and then make one offer "out-the-door" for the vehicle, you are at the mercy of the dealership.
But, when I was in the business, I found that most customers knew about what they would pay for a new car with the equipment they wanted - and were usually very close to what I would sell the car for. But then there are those customers who really have no idea what the cost of a vehicle is and then offer hundreds, sometimes as much as thousands below the actual dead cost of the vehicle. That's when you now you either have to educate them (which is almost impossible to do) or show them the door. Most unfortunate.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
If you had participated, the cop would have felt like he'd won the Triple Crown, nabbing 3 "criminals" all at once!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
@ken117 said:And then there is the hillarity of CNN's neverending coverage of the missing jet liner.
There's a missing jetliner? I must not be keeping up on things.
Well, people want to get a solid, low price. They out up with the negotiation dance as the necessary evil to get there.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mike, how many people overpay for a vehicle and by quite a bit? How many pay almost full MSRP? How many people don't resist at all? Just curious.
I have told my wild car buying experiences to a few people who I knew would be interested and they said to me they had no idea you could negotiate as much as I do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You obviously don't watch CNN.
Missing Malaysian Jetliner stories every 10 minutes!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"Mike, how many people overpay for a vehicle and by quite a bit? How many pay almost full MSRP? How many people don't resist at all? Just curious."
In my experiences in car sales, almost none! I actually never came face-to-face with a customer who ended up paying the first asking price - and I have sold over 2000 high end luxury cars as either a salesman or as a manager.
As far as overpaying for a vehicle, that depends on what one would consider over-paying! If you mean more than invoice, that's one way. If you mean $2000 over invoice, that is another!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Once we were looking for a 2nd car and we went to look at Saturns....I was tired of negotiating and I thought the experience of paying one price sounded good in theory.
My wife and I went to the dealership, tried out the car, wasn't overwhelmed, and got a price, that sounded high. I tried to see what the discount would be but the salesman smuggly said there wouldn't be any negotiating....only the one price! I think the one price rule protected the dealer more than it did the customer. I found I am too used to getting a discount on a car, so unless it is a rare in demand model, I would find it hard to pay full MSRP.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
What cracks me up is people who have no clue about business margins, but sit convinced that a $30000 car is made for $5000 and the rest is profit. I know people like that and you would not be able to convince them it's not the case.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
"What cracks me up is people who have no clue about business margins, but sit convinced that a $30000 car is made for $5000 and the rest is profit. I know people like that and you would not be able to convince them it's not the case."
I must have already met them - and I can tell you they never bought a car from me !
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
GM recalls new 2015 Cadillac Escalades.
Just the Facts:
WASHINGTON — General Motors is recalling 1,402 2015 Cadillac Escalade and Escalade ESV SUVs because the front passenger-seat airbag may only partially deploy in a crash, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
GM told its dealers to stop selling the Escalades until they can be repaired. It also called and e-mailed the 224 customers who had taken delivery of the vehicles and instructed them to not
let occupants sit in the front passenger seat until the vehicle has been fixed.
Parts are not available at this point. Dealers will replace the instrument panel right side upper trim panel when parts become available. No date has been set for the recall.
OK, so I can see it now. I get in the drivers side of my new $80K Cadillac Escalade and I try to explain to my wife that she will have to sit in the backseat until a new part comes in. Oldfarmer, who was that divorce lawyer you had lined up?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
" I found I am too used to getting a discount on a car, so unless it is a rare in demand model, I would find it hard to pay full MSRP."
There are a few instances where MSRP is the price one must pay for a newly redesigned or brand new model car.
Examples would be the 2013-2014 Mercedes SLS, 2014 Mercedes S Class, the newly introduced 2003 Lexus SC430, the newly designed Infiniti G37 S Coupe and convertible, to name a few. Buying any of those cars would be at full MSRP until their is enough supply to meet demand.
I remember paying full MSRP on a brand new Corvette Stingray Fastback Coupe with a 4-speed manual and the 427 CID 435 hp engine back in 1967. Also paid full MSRP on the newly redesigned Pontiac GTO in 1966 with the Hurst 4speed manual and the big engine.
But those were rare cars at the time. Today, if I wanted an S Class Mercedes, I would wait a few more months - by then there should be more than enough supply to meet demand.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
By recalling almost every vehicle that has, or could have a problem, GM is making the most use of Business Strategy 101. That strategy is simple. When there is bad news, report them all at once. By so doing, GM will experience a short-term reputational risk and perhaps even incur short-term operating losses on warranty repair costs. But in the long run profit margins will improve as well as its reputation and resulting share price.
Don't know where Mary Barra earned her MBA but she is well on her way to restoring GM's reputational risk. She is definitely executing Strategic Management 101 to perfection that most CEO's would admire, and grudgingly accepted by others.
"By recalling almost every vehicle that has, or could have a problem, GM is making the most use of Business Strategy 101."
It could also be using the algebraic concept of (-)x(-)=(+)! Instead of constantly going into surgery for repair of organs, they are taking care of everything at the same time. So all the negatives end up as a plus.
I attended NYU and received my BS in Management. I can attest to the fact that Management 101 and Business Policy 101 never mentioned any of that stuff. But Common Sense 101 and Logic 101 sure covered it well!
BTW, my MA is in Education and PhD is in Educational Administration - not too much different than an MBA - just the letters are a little different, but content is just about the same - a degree in CYA!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
It had to be a long time ago since Business Policy is now called Strategic Management. And now the emphasis of that course is on the "triple bottom line," people, planet and profits.
>
When I bought my 2008 bmw Cabriolet it was a new model. The salesman's story was that since it was a new model (hardtop convertible) the dealership was only allowed 2 per month, September was sold out and there was only one left for October. I bought the story though that is the dealer that sells cars at full MSRP anyway, so I am doubting the story....thouogh it is a good one. Probably learned that in their sales classroom.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Not really. She is just doing what the media experts are saying to do. The one that got all this started was the Tylenol bottles that were being tampered with. Ever since then, the new way to handle these incidences is to meet them head on. Take responsibility, admit mistakes were made, have a plan to look after it...be careful what you say so you don't open the door to getting your a-- sued off! Nothing is worse than trying to lie your way out of one of these messes....or doing what the BP guy did and complain it is making his life difficult, so he needed a vacation.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"It had to be a long time ago since Business Policy is now called Strategic Management. And now the emphasis of that course is on the "triple bottom line," people, planet and profits."
Go ahead, make me feel younger than I really am!!!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
That would be Stanford...I understand it's an OK place to earn an MBA from.
Is anyone else getting pop-up ads? Just in the last few weeks I have been seeing a large pop-up with each page refresh and now there is a state farm ad at the bottom of the page in RED.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
"Is anyone else getting pop-up ads? Just in the last few weeks I have been seeing a large pop-up with each page refresh and now there is a state farm ad at the bottom of the page in RED."
I didn't hear anything about Edmunds being a non-profit C-3 corporation. The ads now provide irrefutable evidence of that.
Yes, mako, I've noticed them for about 3-4 weeks now - even on the mobile app! Welcome to capitalism!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I just remembered that my car turns 6 months old on May 30th which would mean that my 6 month trial subscription to Sirius/XM is about to end. But I haven't received any notices or letters from them regarding extending the subscription. In fact, I haven't heard from them for any reason.
I don't think I notified them when I bought the car - I think it was already activated so I thought why bother. I believe it was activated at the port, as all of them are. I wonder if they will turn it off on or about May 30th or if it is still dealer activated for their inventory.
Anyone have any thoughts?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Please, no more politics.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Before I updated my operating system I got a Toyota ad plastered right in the middle of the page. Made reading the posts difficult.
Edit: I hit the wrong emotorcon. I hope you know I was kidding
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"Now I have mad computer skills (thanks to my BILL and my son's friend from special ed). Maybe you should get with the program....grandpa"
Only my grandsons are allowed to call me grandpa, "OLDfarmer"!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
XM? normally the dealer as part of the delivery tells XM who you are. VW did that for my son, and he started to hear from them (constantly) after about a month (he got 3 months free). so if you haven't heard, seems odd.
I would just wait and see what happens. if it turns off, then you know. if it doesn't, don't say anything. If it does and you want to keep it, then you just call them up.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"I would just wait and see what happens. if it turns off, then you know. if it doesn't, don't say anything. If it does and you want to keep it, then you just call them up."
That's what I think is the way to go. I not only get SAT radio from them (Sirius), but also detailed weather reports and a map showing wind speed and direction as well as radar showing rain, warnings and tornadoes/hurricanes and weather fronts in color. I also get Sirius traffic on the NAV map. So if I renew, I would want to keep those things.
I am going to guess that the SAT radio is set up for dealer demo and my ownership info was not registered with them. All my other cars I received renewal letters from them. After May 30th, I'll know for sure.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
If you have sat radio that has expired you can listen for free til June. Some promo -- mine is on.
Mike, I think you have to register via web and give an email to get the nudge to buy more after 6 months. Even though I don't drive much I got it (only $129/year I think). I figure its a 2 fer since I bought the pick-up in October 2013 and still have XM (seller must have forgot to cancel).
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Friend has a Lexus for about 3 years and he still has his XM, never got notified, never paid, just keeps getting it.
I on the other hand have been asked if I want to pay to continue after 3 months on the Passat, 6 months on the Audi, 12 months on the BMW. I never win anything!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Another recall announced today. It's getting hard to keep up.
General Motors is adding 218,000 subcompact cars to its growing list of recalled vehicles.
Chevrolet Aveo or Optra cars from the 2004 through 2008 model years are being recalled because of a fault in the daytime running light, GM said in a posting on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration site in the U.S. The Aveo was called the Optra in some markets.
GM said the module in the dashboard centre stack can overheat, melt and cause fires. A spokesman said the company was aware of fires related to the fault, but not of any injuries or fatalities.
This makes 29 this year!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"I on the other hand have been asked if I want to pay to continue after 3 months on the Passat, 6 months on the Audi, 12 months on the BMW. I never win anything!"
You won all of your wonderful friends here on SFTSF (Edmunds)!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Everyone is doing a much better job of ignoring him now !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Just wait until it expires. IF they have your address, you will be flooded with offers. I get offers almost every month to renew my radio for 5 months for $20.00. If finally bit the bullet when I took a 3000 mile trip, and I'll let it expire again.
You can also call, as they will negotiate over the phone. Don't pay what's on the bill if they do send it, they will lower the cost.
2025 Toyota Crown Signia Hybrid, 2022 Ram 2500 Laramie 6.4 Hemi, 2007 Mazda MX-5 Miata PRHT
True, sometimes you have to be thankful for the things you do have.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If I may add, be careful if you give them your credit card...they will renew you automatically at the full rate, over $200. If using your credit card is the only way to renew at a cheaper rate make a note of the date and be sure to phone them before the due date...you will get a much better rate...less than half in my case.
I am on the Canadian plan which is a bit different, it costs me about $90 with taxes and music license fees, so I figure it is worth $8 a month as a backup to the radio which isn't a totally satisfactory source for suitable programming.
Using the Driver Cost Averaging Method (CAM) it works out to 26 cents a day or $2 a week and is worth that to me. I like the music I recorded on the cars harddrive and USB stick, but, sometimes it is nice to just here music at random.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
"Just wait until it expires. IF they have your address, you will be flooded with offers. "
On my other cars, I was contacted by phone, email and letters at least 1 month before expiration of the 6 month trial subscription. But this time absolutely no contact. Just strange because they usually bombard me with letters and offers.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger