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Renewing is not a straight forward decision. It is better to go online and select from the milieu of options offered. I pay $45 a quarter for the mostly-music, weather-traffic, and royalty package. This amount is deducted from my American Express card and I can cancel anytime.
The most likely answer is your dealership left the subscription in their name because they figured you would be in getting a new car before the trial subscription was over. LOL
(I hope that is a laugh emoticon)
Steve
I've stayed away from the debate regarding GM. I have also quoted several times from the book Bob Lutz wrote (Car Makers Vs Bean Counters). The overall tone was this archaic and highly ineeficient management structure within GM. And, the overall culture of having accontents constantly hammering away at finding ways to cut out the cost of parts, labor, engineering, etc.
The Chevy Cobalt is what you end up with in that instance. Now, it looks like Cadillac didn't test the airbags enough, or that they were underengineered to save costs.
It confounds me to no end, how GM has been through so much, and yet has learned so little.
Good insight GG. Could another possibility be that GM got so far behind (because of the cost cutting) that they rushed to get these Cadillacs out as soon as possible?
Ford held back the new Fusion and Explorers in order to make sure the launch went right...it costs more to try to go back and fix them after the launch, and the carmaker loses credibility.
GM's big mistake might be that they tried to launch the new improved Escalade too soon.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The most likely answer is your dealership left the subscription in their name because they figured you would be in getting a new car before the trial subscription was over. LOL (I hope that is a laugh emoticon)
LOL! Yes, it was a laugh!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
driver....GM received a reprieve...all debts forgiven....clean slate...etc, etc, etc when we balied them out. They had the perfect opportunity to return to being an engineering excellence company....a company who reestablished their once sterling image of building the best cars in the world. It cost us BILLIONS to make them whole, to allegedly make them better.
Instead, they stayed the same, just on a much smaller basis. Their way of doing business changed little (they did some nice design work with the Caddy and Buick) but when I sat in the recent Impala, it was clear the "bean counters" still have a major influence. As Bob Lutz said (paraphrasing)...."their processes and management is still severely overbloated with too much power."
They may have cut Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn. But, the same managment structure for the rest of the company remains. In other words, they're still the same bloated company, just with fewer brands.
The ignition switch they designed (Delphi just made the switch to GM's design spec) was either not tested enough, or wasn't engineered well enough. Same with the airbags in the Escalade. "Just good enough" (especially for safety devices like airbags) isn't good enough.
Spend the extra design time, the engineering time, the testing time to make certain it's right. Don't let the bean counters compromise ANY safety parameter.....EVER!
GG, I agree with just about everything you said - however we all must remember that the "profit motive" still directs, steers, runs, etc., just about every "for-profit" corporation or entity. The CEO and the Board of Directors still have to answer to the stock-holders by distributing profits that are commensurate with the investors' investment. So, while GM has started to respond (may even be over-responding, who knows for sure) to the defects in their vehicles and will be taking an almost $3.2 Billion write off against this year's profits, how would you respond as a GM stock-holder?
I, personally, would want to fire the entire Board of Directors for sitting there for years doing absolutely nothing! Secondly, I would direct the current CEO to CLEAN HOUSE of all the managers and administrators who sat their and did little or nothing about the impending doom GM would be facing. Thirdly, I would want the new Board of Directors and the new CEO to create a business climate that rewards design and engineering break-throughs that cause the company to earn hefty profits by producing outstanding, not just adequate, products. Their products should be the best product available, even if they need to raise prices on every car they produce to achieve that goal.
Now, for the unions! The unions were protected by the bankruptcy for their pensions, health plans, salaries, etc. Not so for the stockholders and bondholders of the Old GM. They lost everything. It's time to face the unions head-on! If they can't produce the best products on the market, then GM should just close down for good - no more bailouts, no more union contracts, no more Buicks, Cadillacs, Chevrolets, GMC's. Every effort must be made to bring this company back - but if they can't build the best and stand behind their products, then they need to close down!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Yeah, but then the Escalade would cost $125,000 instead of $80,000.
I'm not taking the side of the finance folks here, just trying to explain that a company has to walk a fine line between perfection and cost.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
@graphicguy, you make some excellent and thoughtful points....but
Remember GM is in the business of making money for its shareholders. At the root of its strategy is planned obsolescence. An over engineered vehicle is a recipe for failure. Why is this the case for GM?
GM does not compete very well at the luxury or the lower end of the automobile spectrum. They have proved over and over that they cannot effectively compete with Mercedes Benz, Audi, and BMW, not to mention high end marques like Maserati, Porsche, and Lamborghini.
Unfortunately, by defacto, GM is relegated to producing mass market (appliance like) vehicles, and that's where they will continue to play for the foreseeable future. How do you make money selling a mass market product? Not by high margins but rather by rapid turnover.
If an automobile is over-engineered that would increase its service life and thus slow down turnover. GM needs to be able to replace its vehicles on an average of 10 years or so to make money. Planned obsolescence therefore is a prudent strategy. To pull it off though, one must balance safety and technology with costs.
I don't know if that is 100% accurate, bwia. I always thought their Malibu and Cruze did quite well in that lower end line. And what about Corvette? Still one of the most sought after sports cars in the world and priced extremely well compared to other sports cars manufactured. The Buick division does quite well in the low end as well with their new vehicles.
Ever since the late 1980's, Cadillac has not done well in the luxury car end, that's for sure. Today, Cadillac is considered, for the most part, at the lower end of the luxury car line - entry level perhaps. At $39,000 - $58.000, I would not consider it a competitor against the E Class, the 5 Series or the A6. Their ATS competes quite well with the 3 Series and C Class as well as the A4. But I don't consider those luxury cars - they are more sport with a tad of luxury built in.
I would agree that GM would not do well against BMW 7 Series, Mercedes S Class, Audi A8, or any of the other imported luxury cars even if they had one in the range. I don't consider the XTS a competitor of the high end imports.
GM is well situated in the middle and lower ends quite well - but now they have to build better cars, that's all. Cars that don't break down easily and that would be respected by Americans, Canadians and Europeans. But they are a long way off from accomplishing that - but off to a good start with their new policy, "...if it looks like it might fail or cause injuries, recall it NOW!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Actually, the new CTS is doing something that Cadillac was never able to do - they are getting BMW and Mercedes prices for the CTS.
Last year, the average selling price of the CTS was $44K. Now their customers are paying over $54K on average for a CTS. To have that high of a difference in transaction price (over 30% increase) is a positive sign.
Understand the profit at what cost debate. That brings in to question, if it cost GM an extra $1M to test and engineer a "widget" to insure it worked and wouldn't cause a death, is it worth those reported 13 lives lost to do it?
IS it worth it for 10 lives? How about 5 lives? One life? Is it worth it for one life?
How about if there was only 1 week of engineering and testing time that would have saved those lives? Would it have been worth it? How about a day? Maybe an hour?
Do you think Volvo would spend that time to make certain their "widgets" were tested and safe?
Just food for thought.
Damn -- it's a death panel moment.
What's a life worth?
There is a number, but no one wants to talk about it.
Car companies do the math. Airlines. The government. Basic business analysis.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
"Damn -- it's a death panel moment.
What's a life worth?
There is a number, but no one wants to talk about it."
The number is the delta dollar amount between wrongful death lawsuits and the cost of repairs/recalls to correct the problem. That's what corporate penny-pinchers are hired to do - which scenario costs less!
That was the OLD GM! The new GM has determined that, for purposes of survival, it is currently more economically feasible to recall anything and everything that could cause injury or death.
Makes sense to me - what say you?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Oh oh, now I'm seeing your State Farm ad. Did you put some hex on me? Gee I told you I was kidding.
Speaking of State Farm, I've heard nothing but bad stuff about them. Wouldn't insure my cow with them.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I understand that part of the reason Ford is being so closed-mouth with the new Mustang is because of their cautious production delays. As one article stated "they want to get it right".
As frustrating as that is, I can respect it. If you pay near $40k for a new car you don't want all the gizmos blowing up in your face.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"Speaking of State Farm, I've heard nothing but bad stuff about them. Wouldn't insure my cow with them."
I've never had them as my insurance company so I can't evaluate them.
Actually, I just renewed my auto insurance today with Geico. I've had them on and off for many years. I had Liberty Mutual for 2 years but they raised my rates 30% a year and I had no tickets or claims so I canceled them.
Of all the insurance companies I've used, there is really no difference between them except for their premium costs. If you never have a claim, all insurance companies are great (except for rates)! It's when you have a claim that separates the good, the bad and the ugly.
I have just had problems with rates. Here in south Florida, rates are very high because of no-fault PIP insurance and the tremendous amount if accidents and claims. My brother owns a Mercedes CL 550 and lives at TPC Sawgrass (south of Jacksonville) and he pays half of what I pay.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
But doesn't Toyota and Honda compete in the same market? By all accounts they produce a superior car which last better than comparable domestic brands. I know that GM is saddled with legacy costs but why produce inferior products and expect to thrive?
I see these constant recalls as a PR disaster rather than an indictment on the actual quality of GM products. It's the perception of poor quality that will kill GM.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Regarding SAT radio, you can call them before renewal and get a better offer. Just tell them you want to cancel, it's too expensive.
Those recalls, keep your pencil sharp if you are keeping score.
How about this Lexus recall?
— 16,000 Lexus GS 250 and 350 sedans from the 2013 model year because a manufacturing defect can cause the brakes to activate without warning, and without turning on the brake lights. Most of the vehicles — 10,500 — were sold in the U.S. Also included are left-hand-drive sedans sold in Canada, China and Europe.
You may be right but WalMart is making obscene profits selling low price goods. My point is not making inferior goods, it is about planned obsolescence. That can be done in two ways by technological obsolescence or chronological obsolescence. You have to able to create artificial demand to sell new products, otherwise you perish.
The brakes can activate....but, only in left hand drive cars? Howcome they made the right hand drive cars ok?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There is at least one dealership that I know about in the Chicago area that has the one price model and they have been doing it for well over 20 years so it must be good for them. Also isn't Carmax and the Fitzgerald group on the east coast one price dealerships?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Good point GG. I could not imagine Volvo having that many recalls. 29 recalls this year alone! Recalls are a necessary part of life these days, but, there is something very wrong when there are that many recalls in 5 months.
Another thing, a business can have a low price model....sell lots of cars at low margins, but the cars have to be reliable....Hyundai does that very well now. Or you can go for the luxury market and sell high quality and demand a higher price...Mercedes does that quite well. But, people want reliability...they don't want to wait to have their car repaired with recall notices, and they don't want unsafe cars. The GM business model cannot survive unless there are drastic changes.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have negotiated lower prices or concessions at places like Best Buy, not often but I have. There is a Dunken Donuts near where I do taxes that I have gone into a hour or less before they close and gotten them to give me pretty good discounts on donuts that they still had.
As you might remember I once managed a retail location and I had at my disposal the ability to work with customers at my discretion. If a customer pressed it and I thought it was the best for the customer/company I would work with them. We also had customer service reps that had even more authority to do things. I used that knowledge to get unlimited minutes and text and a $20/month discount on our cellular service.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
@driver100... probably designed as right hand drive (JDM) and converted to left side for sales here.
Sorry but we need to get to the bottom of the Tea Pot Dome scandal. What did President Harding know and when did he know it?
The National Association of Procrastinators wants an investigation into the XYZ affair and how President Adams used it as a pretense to military action against France.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Like a bad neighbor, State Farm is here as well.
Thank you for that. There is way to much bashing of "bean counters" when it comes to things like this. Companies have to make a profit or close their doors, One of the things "bean counters" do is help the company to make that product. Companies, especially ones the size of GM, have divisions and groups that have their own agenda and at times don't work well together.
I had a job once and one of the first things my new boss said to me was "welcome to hell". The company was going to be putting out a new product and marketing wanted it to be one price and the way the product engineers wanted to build it would have been more than the selling price. Part of our job was to find ways to cut costs so that we could sell the product at a profit. My boss told me that if everyone had their way the product developers would be making the product at a cost of $100 and marketing would be selling it for $20.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's why I wrote "usually". There are always exceptions.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Thanks, that would explain it!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't think any company could be very successful if the bean counters are in charge....you can always hire good bean counters and they will do their job pretty much the same. You can't always find great engineers, designers, workmanship etc., those are the qualities that will make a great product.
GM is the perfect example of a company that was run by the bean counters. Consumers want a great product, they don't buy a car based on how good the bean counters do their job.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Snake...fair enough. I see your point.
Let's do another hypothetical. Let's say GM added another $2 to the unit cost of the ignition in question (over a decade ago when they first knew about the issue). Let's say at the time they had to recall 25,000 cars (Saturns?) they installed the units in that went out of the factory with the original switches which were faulty. That's $50K. Let's say the additional engineering and testing cost another $250K. Or, $300K as the magic number. Is that worth 13 lives? Wouldn't it have been MUCH less expensive to fo the testing, engineering and "part fix" up front than what it will cost them now? And that number doesn't even include the $35M the gov't is fining them (which isn't even going to the victims' families).
In short, GM is more the same old GM, rather than the new and improved version we spent all that money to bail out we were promised to get.
"Wouldn't it have been MUCH less expensive to fo the testing, engineering and "part fix" up front than what it will cost them now?"
GM engineers knew the part was a problem because they were alerted to the problem by Delphi - they warned the GM engineers that the part did not meet GM's specifications! So testing was not necessary - the part was the problem and it was known it was the problem. When the bad parts were used up, they ordered a newly designed part but told no one about it and did not give the part a new part number. Do there was subterfuge involved.
This, testing the part would not have solved the problem because the results of those tests would have been altered or withheld from the administrators by the engineers.
The subterfuge was the problem - not just the part itself!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I think GM has too much institutional inertia to overcome. It probably would have been better to let the company crash and burn rather than spend taxpayer dollars to resuscitate it- only allow it to incompetently limp along for a few more years...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Ok - just watched "last week tonight - GM" a truly hilarious commercial based on the current GM recall.
http://youtu.be/j6IZ2TroruU
LOL
that was funny
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Wow, and I thought I was cheap!
There's a guy at work who's wife does that. When they have their fill he dumps the extra stale doughnuts in the driver's room. They disappear faster than chum in the shark tank.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mitt Romney was crucified for saying exactly that.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Cute!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's the same as many companies. I recall in the 70s the pay for executives running companies was a certain multiple of the average worker's pay. Through the decades that has slowly crept up until it's much, much higher and ridiculously out of ratio. The Japanese executive pay/worker pay ratio was the usual comparison.
So today we have companies run by hugely overpaid top folks who feel they are indispensable to the company's operation and future. However they also are often covered by extreme parachute payouts if they are severed from the company.
These same folks complain if the worker bees unionize to get a quarter more per hour. They usually will fight against raising pay--the company just can't afford it is their mantra. This isn't true for the UAW load of [non-compliant word thought deleted] costs that GM, Ford, and Chrylser have to pay. But in most companies it has been.
That inertia among the top folk is what needs to have been deleted when the company reformed. Maybe the Japanese value of suicide with failure/embarrassment in business does have merit after all. But that wasn't done to any degree beyond PR value by the administration who stuck their fingers in the pie for their own goals as exemplified now for 5.5 years.
I disagree but probably not for the same reasons you have for your thoughts on it. My problem is that the solely political purpose for not doing the bankruptcy properly was to maintain the UAW's stranglehold on the auto company. They are the ones who won financially. Not the retirees who owned common or bond value in GM. Not the pension funds who lost big. The UAW and other unions won in this deal so they could continue to contribute huge amounts of money to elections under the guise of fairness while complaining that the selfsame companies which the overpaid unions strangle should not be able to contribute (Citizens United). And there's a lot of dirty/ dark money that flows from the unions into campaigns like the last.
The lost money from pension funds and people's holdings in GM where they would have received a fraction instead went to subsidizing the Unions. The improved operation from having replaced lots of the slow-moving deadwood at the top would have straightened up the company. Mary Barra is biting the bullet and doing the right thing.
There are many other factors in the problems with GM/Ford/Chrysler.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I would just add that we should never underestimate how low most politicians would stoop in order to protect their jobs and personal interests. Take immigration reform for instance. They could care less about the welfare of poor immigrants trying to make a better life for themselves. All the dems are looking for is a larger voting bloc to help keep them in office....and the republicans are very tempted to go along with them because their corporate masters keep pushing them for more cheap labor. No regard at all about the negative effects this could have on current citizens.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Bean counters does not necessarily have to refer to actual accountant. Accountant's job, as I see it is to dispassionately present "input-output" data. It is up to management to make decisions how to alter the inputs to improve profitability. Extracting costs is always a lazy way of doing it. While there is always legitimate reason to watch and quest for lower costs, an approach that focuses on that aspect alone without consideration of its effects will pretty much always become counterproductive. Eliminating R&D budget may look like instantly improving the spreadsheet, but that's a static view that doesn't consider hidden variables. Same with lowering quality of product (and keeping the price) - fantastic way of making more profit, if only those sales remained and prices sticked. But they of course don't.
My former employer thought that engineering offices don't really need new computers or real software/system support. The place laid off one more IT employee. Yeah, they saved a bundle - especially when $100K+ engineers had to sit idle because they were waiting for their computer to be fixed, or software installed. Real savings.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Not familiar with that host, or that show. But, funny (and also quite eery).
abacomike....the issue I had with GM's response in all of this is the finger pointing. They tried to lay the blame at the feet of Delphi, a former GM subsidiary that GM FORCED to go on their own. It makes me wonder how much GM knew about the ignition switches given how long ago GM knew there were problems? And, knowing they could potentially shift culpability to Delphi when the stuff hit the fan has to be part of the debate doesn't it?
I had heard that GM threatened some of their customers to bury them in a bevy of legal fees if the aggrieved attempted to sue GM, or to hold them responsible. On top of all that, they tried to sweep the issue under the rug with the whole "hey, we are absolved of any guilt or blame since we are able to claim that at least part of the issue happened pre-bailout". Your name is the same. You made the cars that are faulty. You asked us to give you billions of dollars. And now you want to shirk any sort of responsibility? C'mon now....really?
This just smells quite badly on a whole lot of levels. I have yet to hear GM come out and state...."hey, we were really messed up back then. We take full responsibility for our actions. We're guilty. While we can't bring you loved ones back, we can sincerely apologize, and we do. Tell us what we can do to at least soften the hurt we've caused".
I would have much more respect if they did that, than all of this "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil" act that they perpetrated.
Going further, a major reason I wanted GM to be saved was that they were put into the untenable position that many mom and pop stores have been. Let's say we have a thriving department store in downtown Pisgah Ohio from the 80. The store learns that a Walmart, or earlier times a Kmart or Woolco, was going in nearby. Walmart doesn't have the longtime, older employees the large department store had. In fact, the department store carried health and calamity insurance in case of calamity so that the employees would be paid, and they used that when there was a fire that closed the store for 3 months to make repairs. How can they compete with Walmart who uses lowest paid employees possible for part time with minor insurance coverage.
Does the old department store deserve to go out of business so that Walmart and Lowes can take over the 'hood? How does this get worked out? The department store buys things at a higher cost than Walmart sells them. How does the old department store adapt? Dump the faithful employees most of whom are 58 so they can't find other jobs and can just go on disability if they find the right attorney?
I see the same problem for Ford and GM. But they didn't adapt well. And the UAW has a stranglehold.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good analogy and that scenario will separate the men from the boys. If you don't find a solution to the department store problem you will become a Sears or K-Mart. If you do try to adapt you build a Lord and Taylor or Costco and find a new or niche market. GM has not adapted, they are doing what they always did and hoping to somehow change.
As I learned in my entrepeneurial courses...if you do what you have always done you will get what you always got. In other words, you have to find new products, new ways to do business, new ways to improve, or you will become a dinosaur.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Interesting. I've had them for years, and it'd be hard to get me to switch. Both times my car was totaled, other party at fault, they handled it extremely quickly. I didn't have to do a thing, and within a few days, they sent a mobile unit to my house to hand me a check. Also, they paid high value for the totaled vehicles. They are more expensive, I believe, though I don't shop around much.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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+1 - I've had State Farm for the 20+ years I've lived in Colorado, and I've got no problems with them. Paid all claims with a minimum of fuss.
Are they the cheapest? Don't know - I've only shopped around once, and my agent was able to lower the premiums to match.
It's worth the extra money for the service.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I've had State Farm for decades, decades. Since 1962. Any claims were handled well. I didn't like one agent in the Cincinnati area after he directed a glass claim to friends of his. State Farm replaced the glass they had put in AND offered to replace the dash that was damaged by the 2nd glass company.
I had a claim for roofing damage due to hail. Didn't think I was affected and after people nearby had their roofs replaced by the fly-by-nighters, I had mine inspected. Claims agent came out. Even inspected all property for damage such as AC condenser fins, downspouts, gutters, AND the roof of my 10x12 storage barn. Verified roof man's opinion. Then the roofer didn't return to honor his really good price. I called a previous roofer. All my roofs match now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Now let's add to this that your competitor, Walmart, is building on land where the purchase was assisted by the city/township involved and taxes have been forgiven on the land for years. And the state and local community fund grants to help you train your workforce as well as helping find workers for you. The local and state are so happy to have jobs in their political entity, they just love helping you with OPM.
And then the old department store in downtown Pisgah asks for money to help rennovate, expand, to try to compete. But they are hamstrung by the high costs of the UAW union folk working at Pisgah's department store. The state is happy to help Walmart find new, cheap employees, but isn't willing to help reverse the noose in labor costs on Mr. Goldman's downtown Pisgah store with higher labor costs, higher merchandise wholesale costs, higher heating/cooling costs.
Should Mr. Goldman just go bankrupt and let the state pay unemployment for a year or two? The Walmarts won't employ the people with experience in a previous department store; they don't want anyone, either, who might be prone to voting in favor of a union. In fact, the State may have designated the downtown area and people living there as a no hire zone (Indiana and Anderson city area where there had been several GM-related plants.)
I can drive through many small towns within 50 miles of here and see business after business that's vacant. I see Walmarts and other stores along a road at the edge of town, but the downtowns are gone.
So what does Pisgah's department store do?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,