Stories from the Sales Frontlines

13203213233253262003

Comments

  • 8sparkplugs8sparkplugs Member Posts: 111
    Let me get this straight. Honda spends millions of dollars telling people that this is the time of year to get great deals, and then people have the nerve to expect to get great deals. I'm not in the biz, but that seems completely unreasonable of them. Next thing I'm going to hear is that Dodge customers are going to actually expect a lifetime powertrain warranty, go figure.
    Why then should they respect your efforts made for nothing in your zeal to MAKE a lousy buck?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    That reminds me. I sold this family a couple of Camrys last month. The second one was tricked out with a spoiler and alloy wheels which had to be ordered. The customer didn't want to pick up the car until everything was put on. The wheels and spoiler came in the same day and one of my favorite service writers' team was doing the work. Promised the car would be ready by 5pm that day.
    I call the customer all excited and give him the news: "Hey Omar! Your wheels and spoiler are here. I should have the car back by 5pm." I tell him. "That's great Mack! I'll be there as soon as I get out of work." he responds.
    An hour later I get a call from our service writer. "Hey Mack, we got a problem. Come back and see me" he says. Right away I start envisioning the car falling off the lift and pieces all over the service bay. :sick: "
    I walk back to the service department and Aaron has a concerned look on his face. "The wheels we got are the same wheels that are on the car." he begins. "What? steel wheels?" I respond. "Yeah, I'm going to have to order a whole new set of wheels." he continues. "It can't be. Mike looked at the wheels and we verified the part numbers before he ordered them." I tell him. (Mike is our parts expert and in all the years I've known him has never ordered the wrong part for me :shades: )
    "Let's look at the boxes, they are back by Mr. Penn's office." We walk back to the parts section and I see four boxes on the floor. I notice two of the boxes look new and are unopened and the other two have a bit of a weathered look and one is open. The part numbers are the same on all four boxes but I have a sneaky suspicion there has been some fowl play. :mad: "Let me see the wheel." I tell Aaron. He lifts the flap of the opened box and there's a steel wheel with a wheel cover on it. Hmmm. "I'll bet you there are two alloy wheels in the new looking boxes and two steel wheels with wheel covers in the weathered boxes." I tell them. "Let's take a look." says Mr. Penn as he pulls a pocket knife and begins cutting the clear tape from one of the new boxes. Presto chango! Alloy wheel! he opens the other new box and Voila! another alloy wheel. "I bet there's a steel wheel in the last box." I say as I point to some heavy staples on the weather boxes which are not on the new boxes. He opens the last box and Bada bing! another steel wheel with a wheel cover. Looks like another dealership tried to pull a fast one but eventually got caught. "I'm going to have to call CAT in the morning. They should know who returned these wheels." So we order two wheels. I call the customer back and God bless his soul he is very understanding and tells me it's ok. "I've waited this long, another two days ain't gonna hurt me."
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I think it's easier to say "ABC motors" instead of "XYZ" motors. There's too many letters in between.
    :confuse:
    Mackabee

    Am I the only one reading my posts tonight?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Am I the only one reading my posts tonight?

    Well, the answer to your question is ...

    TO BE CONTINUED :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • 8sparkplugs8sparkplugs Member Posts: 111
    Here is what I don't understand. If I bought a vehicle at a great price, not only am I going to tell my friends and family that I bought from ABC but I also got this great deal. It seems at that point the referrals would be expecting a similar deal.
    Just for the record, I like Mack's stories.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Houdini, nobody said dealers are not making money. They wouldn't be in business if they weren't. What we are saying or I am saying is that we will lose money on some deals not all. I don't think there is a Toyota store in this country that is not profitable. Everyone wants our cars now. :) It wasn't always this way. The dealer principals that got in the game early are reaping the rewards now and have deeeep pockets. In our case, our owner wants to be number one and will do what it takes to get there. He doesn't need any more money so the satisfaction he gets is to see his logo on lots of cars on the road.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "It seem at that point the referrals would be expecting a similar deal. "

    It's perception. If you feel you got a good deal and tell your friends, are you going to tell them how much you paid, how much you put down, how long you financed for, interest rate, etc..etc..? You will probably say: "Hey I got a great deal at ABC motors. Go see Mack, he will take good care of you." On the other hand if you paid cash for your car and that was the only thing you bought. You say to your neighbor: "Bob, I paid $32,000.00 out the door for this Expenso Gargantua. The sticker was $36,349.00 but I talked them down. Go see Mack and tell him you want the same deal." then they will expect something similar.
    I had that happen a few years ago on an Avalon. A customer came in looking for a particular salesman who happened to be off that day. Customer says "Ok, you help me then. But I want the same deal my neighbor got." So we looked up the neighbor's name and find he purchased an Avalon XLS for XXX so we end up selling this customer the same identical car for XXX. Customer was happy. Rarely happens this way. I'm ranting now. Time for bed. ;)

    "Just for the record, I like Mack's stories."

    Thank you. You're very kind.
    :blush:
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Just found out I'll be the featured member on CarSpace September's newsletter! Woo Hoo! YES!
    :blush:
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    TO BE CONTINUED

    Attaboy! ;)
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    On the other hand if you paid cash for your car and that was the only thing you bought.

    Reminds me of a question that a colleague and I were discussing the other day. How many people actually pay cash for a car? (No finance, no credit union, no lease, no borrowing from the parents) We guessed less than 10%
  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    After a salesperson has spent two hours with a customer and another on negotiations he's not going to be very happy if he doesn't sell the car.

    Mack, did you just validate tbaxxon's theory? :blush:
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,294
    "...Mack,did you just validate tbxxon's theory?..."

    I noticed that too. Posters such as Socal4 and Psyc101 always said that the key to a good deal was to waste plenty of the salesperson's time. Get them invested in the deal and they will give you anything you want.

    I was going to "Bobst" my next car. Now I guess I'll just take multiple test drives, make crazy demands and be a general PITA. After 4 or 5 hours I should get a great deal.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    I was going to "Bobst" my next car. Now I guess I'll just take multiple test drives, make crazy demands and be a general PITA. After 4 or 5 hours I should get a great deal.

    Me too. I am right in the middle of trying to close a deal. Hopefully today. I really like to try to negotiate with one dealer, but I'm not sure it will work this time. I want to buy from just one guy. I gave him my price last weekend when my wife went to check colors. They said OK, do you want to write it up? I had my kids with me and said, no, it's busy, make some more sales and we will do the paper work when it's slow. So next day, I get bumped :mad: And it was the lame dealer prep, wheel locks and doc fee, even though I was clear that the price was plus TTL. So I said to him, are you sure you want me to get other quotes? He left me with an offer that was higher than we agreed. I want to phone him back and say are you sure and note that the last guy usually gets the deal, but I think I have worked hard enough to give him the deal.

    Part of me wants to string this thing out, but it's not in my nature.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,144
    So next day, I get bumped

    Which is how long negotiation sessions invariably end up....bumped. I believe it's a double edeged sword. The dealership has time invested, so does the customer. Are you more apt to walk after a marathon negotiation session? More importantly, you don't know where you're going to end up when you get into marathon negotiations.

    I've done it both ways. I relayed a story a while back about my Father and I buying one each of the same truck. He was grinding for hours (something he had a lot of practice at doing). I made my one and only offer.

    End of the day, his "grind it out" deal was $140 more than my "one offer" deal.

    epiney, in your situation, you would be well within proper decorum to walk away if the deal is more than you agreed to. One of two things will happen. First, they back off their "bump", once you begin to walk. Second, they don't....you walk out the door to the next dealership and tell them what your original deal was with the first dealership, and ask them to beat it to get the sale.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    think that I would buy a Honda off you just to get rid of those stupid "Mr. Opportunity" ads that running every ten minutes.

    I hear ya! Another ad campaign that is driving me BONKERS is that stupid Lexus "Event" ad. It is unbelievably annoying to me. I'm not sure why it gets under my skin so badly, but every time I hear that melody (or whatever you want to call it), it makes me want to cut that womans vocal chords.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    >Bada bing! another steel wheel with a wheel cover. Looks like another dealership tried to pull a fast one but eventually got caught.

    Are you saying that a new car dealership would have actually tried to cheat someone by returning the wrong wheels and getting credit but keeping the alloys? ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    P.S. I've seen lots of times where customers grind down to the penny and then buy everything in F$I and after market.

    That money has to come from some place...right? :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Mack, did you just validate tbaxxon's theory?"

    Yes, he did... Jipster's too. :surprise:

    Posters such as Socala4 and Pch101 always said that the key to a good deal was to waste plenty of the salesperson's time....After 4 or 5 hours I should get a great deal.

    A common misconception. Socala4, and his brother Pch101, never advocated such a lengthy amount of time be devoted to the time investment principle. He wrote that 45 minutes in negotiation would be all it would take to get the necessary results. Of course he was a pro, so it could very well take you 4 or 5 hours to achieve the same results. I think for most people though 2 or 3 hours would suffice. About an hour or so to test drive and listen to the salespersons sales pitch, and another hour or so in negotiation. Mac's original poster had the dealership down to a $1,500 loss in 3 hours. ;)
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,700
    >Socala4, and his brother Pch101, never advocated such a lengthy amount of time be devoted to the time investment principle. He wrote that 45 minutes in negotiation would be all it would take to get the necessary results. Of course he was a pro,

    "Pro" accordin to his own stories and telling thereof.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Part of me wants to string this thing out, but it's not in my nature.

    Since it's not in your nature to string it out why would you even think of doing it.

    All you have to do is ask once more what the final price will be, if it's not the price originally given to you, move on.

    Buying from someone you can't trust is the start of bad things to follow. I guess this salesman isn't worried about a bad CSI if you give into his bump.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • epineyepiney Member Posts: 462
    Which is how long negotiation sessions invariably end up.

    It was really the bobst method. I gave him my price and they said yes right away, so I said you have a sale. We were an "up" a few weeks back to check out the car and I kept his card and called him. I also told him that I understood that there were other factors in buying a car that were important such as CSI and that they need not worry about it with a smooth transaction.

    You know, customers get blasted when they walk from a deal (where are you geffen ;) ), but I think the reverse happens to customers more often then the guys here like to admit.

    I think, I'll just call them back and say the original offer stands and start looking for other dealers.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    The phone call comes in. "What are the lease prices on 2 different models with 3 different trim packsges at 10k,12k and 15k miles per year? Oh, and do those with $1500, $2000, and $5000 out of pocket. Can you have the numbers in the next 5-10 minutes?"

    Adios for awhile - I will be taking leave in Maui for the next week!!
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Depends on the type of car. About half of our new car deals are cash purchases.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ah you suck.

    Taking a break before the busy season?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I would guess that a third of our sales are cash transactions.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Actually had 3 killer months in a row - now things are slowing down. Going to see new Grand daughter. Our cash biz is less than yours - maybe 20-25%. Of course, we are in a poorer neighborhood.
  • au1994au1994 Member Posts: 3,720
    I have to admit I am guilty of some of this. Its usually just 1 model, maybe 2 trim levels and 2 mileage and down payment options.

    just like to have choices!!

    2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
    2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
    2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha

  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Don't get me wrong, I will do it. However, it is better to pick a car and run numbers. If too high or low, then add or delete options. What the customer does not realize is all the changes to switch - residual, money factors, months, etc all change. For instance, now we have customer lease cash with first payment. So to just switch months, we have to redo all the variables. When working 6-7 options under the customer's impatience, mistakes are easy to come by. Also, those customers demanding 10 different scenarios rarely buy.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Like plugging in the residual from a Supercharged Sport into a Supercharged Range Rover lease...

    :cry:

    Our centre manager did that about a year ago and didn't catch it. I think it ended up being a 4,000 dollar mistake. :surprise:

    My June was good but my July was horrible. August has been pretty good too and it will be much better if I can get these next three cars out by tomorrow.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Worse is that the big Honda dealer in Boston - Herb Chambers - is running those ads with Chambers himself animated in and talking with Mr. Opp.

    And add to the clutter is all those Toyota keys falling from the sky - if one of them dings my car, I'm suing!! :)
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    And forgetting to plug in miles on used or retired service loaners.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ouch I have never done that but it would hurt if you did.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,589
    Keys falling from the sky.. That makes Mr.Opportunity look like a good idea..

    Absolutely, the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a car commercial. I keep visualizing people running for cover, screaming bloody murder!!

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    And the first thing you see the people do is LOOK UP! If KEYS are raining from the sky, the LAST thing I'm going to do is look up! :surprise: I'm running for cover.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...Clive Barker or Rick Baker's take on the raining keys commercial!
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Go to the prices paid forums, you would think that every deal is at least a $1500 loser :D

    That one deal does not matter to the dealer, what matters is what is the total at the end of the month. I would bet we would take a looser on an F150 here in the next couple days just to hit some bonus money from the manufacture. A loss could turn into big money for us.

    There is not a dealer in America that does not take a loss at some time or another. They don't have to justify it, it is a business decision.

    I also wonder if when Mack said a $1500 looser if that included hold back and Finance Assist
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Attention F150 shoppers. Ask for Joel :)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    I've been wondering......Who is it in a dealership, who decides which models/trims/colors/options are ordered for the dealership, and how many to be delivered in each month?

    Is there some software modeling tool that is used, or do the sales managers sit down once a month, look at what is in inventory and in the pipeline already, compare to the records of what has been selling, and commit the dealership to some 50 more elcheapotrims (10 silver, 5 red, etc), 25 more olefartyluxobeams, and that 1 stick w/NAV?

    Orders figured out by the SalesMgrs, and blessed by the owner before the order is placed?
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    The worst one is the Honda ad with some guy having a mid-life crisis and racing his minivan around. Raving about the handling , stomping the gas and generally acting like a moron. Here is an idea, it is a minivan not a sportscar. It's for hauling the kids around and getting groceries. Deal with it.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Go to the prices paid forums, you would think that every deal is at least a $1500 loser

    Just for grins I did that after I bought in 05’and 06’. Found out I was beat up bad…real bad. Soooo, I ain’t goin there no more, so please don’t suggest it. You can tell me to go to that other place, at least I’ll still have my wallet. :D

    That one deal does not matter to the dealer, what matters is what is the total at the end of the month. I would bet we would take a looser on an F150 here in the next couple days just to hit some bonus money from the manufacture. A loss could turn into big money for us.

    There is not a dealer in America that does not take a loss at some time or another. They don't have to justify it, it is a business decision.


    When I bought in 2005 at the end of April, I’m pretty sure the dealer took a loss in matching another guys price just so he could meet his end of the month numbers. It was the best deal I ever got but when I went to the prices paid forum…oh forget about it, I’m still sick over that. :sick:

    P.S. if you want to see my sad tale go to “Purchasing Strategies-Questions & Success Stories” forum, post 2599.

    I also wonder if when Mack said a $1500 looser if that included hold back and Finance Assist

    Why don’t you ask him, what do I know? I’ve already admitted I’m a laydown.

    But I’ve always wondered myself how you guys in the biz consider something a loss. To me a loss is coming up short after all the chips are counted at the end of the night not just what happened at one table. Kinda like having more month left when the paycheck runs out, now that’s a loss!! :(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jescuejescue Member Posts: 521
    In our dealership the sales manager orders Porsches. We have a Saab brand manager who orders those, and I order the Audis and Jags. We look at what is in the pipeline and what is on the ground. It is tough for us because you have a small number of cars and a long lead time from order to arrival. The cars I ordered last week will not show up until thansgiving. We just look at what has been popular in the past and try to get a decent mix.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Just for grins I did that after I bought in 05’and 06’. Found out I was beat up bad…real bad. Soooo, I ain’t goin there no more, so please don’t suggest it. You can tell me to go to that other place, at least I’ll still have my wallet.

    I don't worry too much about those prices paid forums. You never know the whole deal. Yeah sure someone might have paid $2000 below invoicve. But they never tell you what they got for their trade. They could have got $7000 for a vehicle that is worth $10,000. Or they could have finaced and bought the farm on the back. So just like evrything else those are guides. I never see a post I got more than Edmunds trade in value plus $1500 below invoice. :sick:
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    One deal I worked with the GSM at a dealership. Since I was waiting for the F&I guy he said grab a cigar and jump in the golf cart as they were getting ready to close. As we were riding around (three dealerships) checking if all the chains were up I had asked who was responsible for ordering the various vehicles and the options they came with. Without hesitation he said, "ME". He said he takes input from the sales staff and the other SM but bottom line it came down to him. Course it had to pass the GM's approval but basically it came down to him being responsible to move the inventory that he ordered.
  • gasman1gasman1 Member Posts: 321
    I had asked who was responsible for ordering the various vehicles and the options they came with. Without hesitation he said, "ME"

    That's a manager/leader that understands what it's all about. It's not laying the blame elsewhere, but excepting blame when blame is due. It's also sharing the success with the team that makes it happen.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Interesting that you say that. While I'm sure his compensation commensurates with his responsibilities, he goes one step extra. He holds a bash at his house with food, live entertainment and liquid refreshments once every three months for past and present customers as well as friends of the dealership. The cost of entrance? One premium cigar. Awesome for networking and just meeting new owners of the vehicles that the dealership sells. Seems that people who are successful in sales always take that extra step.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Just like my customer on the Tacoma. We finished the deal this morning. I came in and saw the truck back in prep but no hood protector or exhaust tip installed. Dang! Service dropped the ball, again! :sick: I go to the showroom and my customers are at the reception desk. I offer them a cup of coffee and Fred asks if he can look at the truck and take it for a test drive. "Sure, let's go look at it."
    We walk back to prep and the truck is in a stall already being washed. The prep porter stops for a second and allows Fred to peek inside. "I don't see the hood protector or exhaust tip on the truck. I'm not happy." he says. "Let's go to service and find out why they didn't put them on since I gave them a "WE OWE" yesterday and the parts are in stock." We walk over to the service writer's area and I go to the head cheese and tell her the two items were not installed. She goes to the service writer that it was assigned to and pull out the work order. "Yep, sorry we missed it. It won't take long to put them on there." she says. At that moment a Tacoma with the hood protector comes into the service bay and Fred walks over to look at it. He's concerned that the metal clips will rub on the paint and cause it to rust later on. "Let's forget about the hood protector." he says. "Ok, I'll send someone to put the exhaust tip on the truck." head service writer responds.
    "Fred, why don't we go finish the rest of the paperwork and you can test drive it after we're finished." I tell him. "I wanted to go to the credit union during the test drive to pick up the check. I guess I can do it afterwards" he says.
    We get back inside and I tell them the delivery coordinator (rust and dust, mop and glo) girl will be coming over and he gets a smug look on his face. "Look this won't take but 5-10 minutes at the most. If you don't want anything just say no." He shakes his head and says: "I know you guys have a system you have to follow, and I understand that. I'm less stressed out today than I was yesterday." he says.
    Suzy comes over and I go outside to put a D-tag on the truck so they can drive to the CU. Suddenly I see Fred walking towards me and he does not look happy. "That was quick." I remark. "She's still at it with my wife. I don't want any of what she's selling but Mary Ann is interested so I just got up and left." he says. ......
    TO BE CONTINUED
    :shades:
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Couple of weeks ago I bought a used truck and told the salesperson I need to get to the bank to get them a certified check to wrap up the deal. They said no problem. I told them I'll be back in 30 minutes. They insisted that the salesperson follow me to the bank to get the check and follow me with the truck that I just purchased. I said that is fine but who will bring the salesman back to the dealership?

    They want the check and that's understandable. I had arranged for one of our workers to pick up the truck. Now because they want to follow me am I responsible to take the salesperson back to the dealership once he gets the check and delivers the truck? Obviously I'm not one to be trusted.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I try to stay out of the Prices Paid Forums as much as possible. Some of those posters are the same people who will spend weeks calling dealer after dealer and driving hundreds of miles in their insane quest to save a couple of lousy bucks. I'm as frugal as anyone but some people make it an obsession. They are just scared to death that maybe someone else just might have paid less for the dsame car and that drives these types nuts.

    And, they aren't always truthful in those forums either.
  • nthenthe Member Posts: 414
    yeah, no kidding about them being less than truthfull. since we can post pics on here, i've challenged some of them to post their bill of sale, but of course no one has, and no one will, cause they don't want to look like a complete idiot.
  • 8sparkplugs8sparkplugs Member Posts: 111
    We just spent a day and a half discussing how and why a dealer would sell a car at a loss. Is it not possible that the kind of people who feel the need to post that information are the same ones that will grind a deal for everything they can get? I'm sure there are some who forget to mention the trade, or it might have been a demo, or it was the ugliest color combination. I'm not saying that everyone on there is 100% honest, but most are.
This discussion has been closed.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.