Stories from the Sales Frontlines

lrguy44

RAG fees are regional. They do not add a dime to the MSRP but are charged to the dealer as a cost. So if a certain car does not have a RAG fee, the dealer just has a little more Gross to work with. Our RAG fees are $350 per car.

oldfarmer50

"...You realize that superman is an alien and an illegal one at that..."

That means he can now get a drivers license here in New York easier than us natives. :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...Annual Sales 5200 or more..."

Is there really a dealership out there that sells more than 5200 vehicles a year? :surprise:

british_rover

Sure.

This is for all the brands that GM sells. If you have a large autogroup that has a GM campus then you can easily get that many vehicles out a year.

You might have a large combined Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealership on one side of the street, a big chevy store on the other side and then a SAAB/Caddy/Hummer dealer down the street. You can hit 5,200 sales pretty quick with one of those big multifranchise places.

oldfarmer50

"...I am only concerned about what I pay relative to market and I invest my efforts in trying to get a feel of what market is in my area..."

Exactly what sources do you use to establish the market for a particular car? I've seen sites such as J.D.Powers and such but do you have something that works better for you?

snakeweasel

The only lies that irritate me are when I'm told the dealership has a car on the lot I'm interested in, then when I show up, BOOM... it's already been sold.

To be fair thats not always a lie. The dealership is there to sell cars and cars go out of inventory all the time. A car thats in inventory when you call could be just seconds away from being sold to some guy or gal who is currently in the showroom.

jmonroe

You might have a large combined Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealership on one side of the street, a big chevy store on the other side and then a SAAB/Caddy/Hummer dealer down the street. You can hit 5,200 sales pretty quick with one of those big multifranchise places.

There’s one in my Burg and I’m sure there are plenty near all good sized cities. Years ago this guy only sold Pontiacs now he sells everything GM except Chevy plus other brands. Back in the day when he only sold Pontiacs, when you looked at his lot in front of his store, if you didn’t know better you would have said, “that’s a Pontiac plant back there” now you’d be convinced that was an assembly plant back there but you wouldn’t know which one. :confuse:

He might even hit that 5200 mark halfway through the year if not sooner. I’m sure he has tremendous overhead so he probably needs a little help.


jmonroe

jipster

To be fair thats not always a lie

True, not always a lie. I'd say the majority of time it is a lie though. But, it is a bit suspicious when I call via telephone early mid-morning in the middle of the week, and the salesman says the car is there, then when I show up 30 minutes later it is "sold" or "in the shop for repair". For it to happen as often as it did to me is a bit more than coincidence.

metmdx

Copy all the other good wishes from another poster here in 'Stories'.....Carpe Diem, Mack :shades:

Regards,
metmdx

chikoo

've had this happen multiple times. Called to verify that a vehicle listed on website inventory was actually there and when I arrived *poof* the excuses begin to flow.

ummm..ahhhh

If you liked the car so much, you should have put a deposit on it over the phone. Yay for Credit cards :shades:

I did that without looking at the car, went over to the dealer 90 miles away, saw the car, still liked it, and then we discussed the deal.....

chikoo

30% commission? 30% of what my friend?

chikoo

Well, Edmunds discussions note that if the Advertising Fee is on the invoice, then it is probably legit

hell yea...

First they spend money to reel you in. Then they charge you for being reeled in? I would never pay ad fees. Ever. They can include it in the price of the car, but I would not pay it as a separate charge.

lrguy44

but I would not pay it as a separate charge

and you never do - it is an invoice item

joel0622

Thought I would try to shed some light on this whole thing. Here is a copy of a Ford Explorer invoice. I don't know if this is how all manufactures work but this is how it works with Ford. The only thing I have edited on the invoice is the name of the dealer



The left hand column is base retail price and the retail price of each option and the right hand column is base dealer cost and dealer cost of each option. As you come down the right hand column you will see where I have highlighted the fuel charge and the FDAF assessment. The FDAF assessment is our advertising charge. That is money that is paid to the advertising firm of J Walter Thompson who handles our Tier 1 advertising.
As you can see the fuel charge and the FDAF is added to the dealer cost column but is not added to the retail column. Meaning that all that does is make a dealer profit margin slimmer. It is not added to the retail side. If it was the MSRP would be that much higher.

I don't know if that clears anything up or not but I hope so.

isellhondas

Actually in a high volume store this can happen pretty often. We can 40 cars on a busy weekend and sometimes two salespeople can be writing up a deal on the same car without knowing it!

joel0622

Had that happen on numerous occasions also. The first one with an approved deal in F&I wins. Then we usually end up doing a dealer locate for the other.

In todays www world it is really not that big of a deal finding a customer what they want. If a unit is sold before they here then all we do is just work the deal as though the car is in stock, if we come to an agreement then we locate one for them.

When the body style on the F150 changed in the 97 model year and the Mustang changed in 94 it was nothing to have 4 deals being worked on the same one. The only problem there was no dealer was going to let you have one. Allot of people bought cars/trucks in colors they hated during those times.

jipster

Had that happen on numerous occasions also.

No doubt @*it happens. The question is how often does "it" happen? isell's place of employment is perfect in every way, so I know his answer. What about your dealership joel, you ever know any salesmen to tell a customer to come in to look at a specific car, knowing it had already been sold?
No big deal though if you don't want to answer... it is a bit personal.

chikoo

It does. Thanks Joel. trust you to come up with the right information!

joel0622

It happens I would guess 5 times a week on the sales floor. Out of those 5 I would guess that it is intentional 2 out of the 5, and maybe once a month a customer makes a big deal out of it.

Me personally, it happens on as every special finance deal that I handle. On every single one I say "Yes Sir/Mam that car is in stock, when can you come buy to test drive it and discuss your down payment. I don't care if I sold the car 6 months ago, because honestly I don't even check. On special finance deals 99% of the time the car they initially like is never the car they qualify for.

joel0622

To expand on that the 5 times a week was probably true in times past, and when we are busy and selling allot of cars. The problem we run into allot now is our online inventory does not update immediately, cars have to be removed manually. So its not so much a sales person telling them it is in stock but the fact that they see it online and it is already sold.

isellhondas

And you wonder why I usually ignore your posts?

You think you know my answer? What else do you know oh smart one?

Actually, I did this about a month ago. I had a call on a used Volvo. I was certain the car was still here but I still put the stock number in our key machine. Yes, the key was in the machine so the car had to be in stock, right?

I had moved it the day before so I knew we had it.

What I didn't know was someone had used another key and driven it to the Volvo dealer for a check engine light. Volvos almost always have some kind of a warning light on and this one was no exception.

So, my customer drove 50 miles to see a car I couldn't find even though I had the key in my hand.

I finally solved the mystery and they left very unhappy.

Can't blame them.

joel0622

Isell, has the key machine improved the key situation at your dealership? i am going to guess that your place is like ours and keeping track of keys is a hassle. We still have a peg board with pegs numbered 00-99 and the key is hung on the peg that matches the last two numbers of the stock #. We have talked about getting one of those gizmos that tells you the last person to take a key but they are awfully expensive and we would have to loose allot of keys for it to pay for its self.

greanpea68

Internet and call centers job is to get the people in the store. I believe the real problem is not that the is cars is sold but it is ussually when they prospect calls on a add car at a specific price and the sales person oh that car is sold.

But if it is a reputable dealer even if the car is sold that shouldn't be a problem if it is new. Ussualy I if the figures agreeable for both parties I or a dealer can locate one. All new cars are the same and if it is a color thing than just look at the color on the lot with different equipment. The only time it is a problem on new is when there is maybe 6 in the region and it is a specialty car.

On the other hand if it is used well that is a different story because every used car is unique. Than the call center shouldn't tell them it's available. They should say its sold. But people do deposits over the phone also.

But as I mentioned before I believe this stuff stems from dealers running screamer adds. People call and ask is this car available, the person on the phone says yes it's available when can you come in. The prospect says I 'm on my way.

The school of thought is if the car is sold anyway and you tell the prospect that than you have no shot of selling a car. But if you can get them in the store and you are a salesman not a order taker than you have a shot of selling a car.

I understand it is frustrating for a customer, but if you find a dealer that is willing to work for you then you should at least give them a shot.

Aslo I know most of the non-biz people here are different then the norm, the average customer knows what they think they want but don't know if they can afford it. And if they can afford it will they buy it. Now who here wants to deal with that everyday? Any takers?

GP

greanpea68

has the key machine improved the key situation at your dealership?

We use one of those key machines. Those key peg boards are easier in my eyes. Almost everday there can be a problem. A lot of times it says the key was taken out last week but the person who put the key back didn't push the key all the way down in the slot so than you have to look at every key in the draw. Sometimes the computer freezes and it takes 15 minutes to reboot. Not kidding 15 minutes. Now I am sure you know ( any one in the car biz ) What a pain in the A&* it is when the power goes out. But when all your keys are locked in a computer. you can't go on a test drive. Yes I know you can get the spares which is a pain because than you have to make sure they all get back in the books and thats headache. Just like anything else it has it's problems too. I found the board to be quicker and easier to work with.

Good Luck to anyone that has one.

micosilver

I do Internet sales, and unless I have a very specific quote request with comment, I don't even check for a car, I price it, and I write:
"Here is your quote, please call to confirm availability."
Once the customer is on the phone - I always tell the truth, with used cars - I "touch" the car before I say it's here, because half of the time they ahve some kind of reconditioning going on...

greanpea68

I do Internet sales

Just for the record I wasn't taking a shot at you.

I can only speak of the experiences with with my internet deparment.

Sometimes I think working a call center or internet dept is harder than being on the floor. The reason I say that is because in person you can get a read on their body language.

isellhondas

We have had our key machine for probably eight years. It messes up once in awhile but not often.

We are on our second unit now and it has three drawers that are all full.

We used to have a huge pegboard. Keys were constantly getting lost and there was little accountibility.

We had the locksmith on our lot on a weekly basis.

The key machine has been a huge asset to us.

lrguy44

We are small and laughed when we got the key machine. Now we love it. If a key is checked out you know where or who to go to find it. Works well and has not broken down since last fall.

smokin98ss

We still put the keys into every car, every morning and take them out every day at 5:30. We hardly ever lose any keys. We have about 200 cars and keep all the keys on a big metal ring. Of course there's only two salesmen so we work at is as a team.

kiawah

Man that's a lot of door slamming.

houdini1

Hey, who you calling paranoid? There are many paranoids on this board...and they're out to get me!

No I am not in the car biz...but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express the other day.

snakeweasel

Wait, are you saying you leave the keys in the cars all day long as they sit on the lot?

Where are you located again?

smokin98ss

Russell Springs, ky small town, never had one stolen, beats walking back and having to look for a key. I don't go on test drives either unless I think it's a joy rider.

houdini1

Yeah, it has happened to most of us. I mentioned before that I was in the insurance biz forever. I remember one year I needed to write $100,000. in new business commissions to get a $10,000. bonus for the year. It came down to the wire but I made it near the end of Dec., only to find out when the sales report came out that somehow the billing dept. did not book the biz in time to make the year end sales report! :mad:

Well at first you would have thought that that final report was gospel and could not possibly be changed. Just tough luck. Right! I finally got it straightened out and got MY money back but it was not easy. :P

I took great pleasure when I left that company about 7 months later and started my own business. I took even more pleasure about 3 years later when my old company went out of business and the crooks were on the street never to recover.

I took even more pleasure about 6 years ago when I sold my biz and started playing golf full time at the tender age of 58. :shades:

Mack, the point of the story is that many times adversity will just make you tougher and more determined. In your case you are already plenty tough and determined so I am not worried about you.

snakeweasel

Hate to say this but here in the big city every now and again one or two would be turned into spare parts.

stickguy

One big dealer near me (a complex at this point) has a neat set up. Each car has a lockbox on it (hanging from the window) with the keys in it. The sales folks have a master "key" that lets them unlock the lockbox to get the keys.

So, every car always has the key with it. And when a lot of them are in a remote central lot, that is a good thing.

WOrks a lot like a lock box that realtors use so agents can get into houses for sale.

Only thing I didn't like was having th ebox hanging on the window! not an issue when just test driving though.

mackabee

Hey, that's the setup we have at our store. Works like a charm but still has it's disadvantages due to the "human" factor, i.e. salespeople not putting the key back in the box, or not putting the key and the box back on the window and locking the car, etc..Good thing is you can "read" the box with the magic key and find out who the last person to use the key was. That's how we caught a salesperson taking cars home for days. He was fired on the spot.

mack

mackabee

what's really bad with this new way of business with call centers is that you will have worked with a customer on the lot and they left to "think it over", "check with the wife", "pray on it", etc, etc... then the next day you find out they contacted the call center/internet dept or give away dept as we call it at our dealership and that department just knocked your head off. The only thing left to do is call the customer and ask when they want to pick their car up. I asked one of the girls once why they quoted a price to every single customer that called in when they weren't calling in for a price? She told me that's what they were instructed to do. So if you want a really low price call my store. No salesperson will answer, just ask for a quote on anything we sell and you'll see what I mean. Customers get better prices than employees. :confuse: This is not an offer or solicitation for business. I'm just trying to prove a point. And if you do so please do not mention my name.

Mackabee

mackabee

thank you all for all the best wishes with my upcoming treatment. I'm hoping for the best!
I'm wrapping up a great weekend with my wife, my oldest son, my daughter in law and my grandson. We left the beach around 2pm friday and arrived around 6pm to Waldorf. First stop after picking up the kids......Chipotle!!!! Man are they good.. I'll post a picture since I'm at my kid's now and don't have a usb cord to hook my camera up. Today we did some shopping for my grandson and I played with his toys until about an hour ago We had a sort of mini celebration since yesterday was our 29th wedding anniversary so we went to dinner at The Olive Garden and had a great time. The service was outstanding! and so was the food. My middle son is coming tomorrow Sunday and my youngest can't make it out because he's working tonight and Sunday night. We are probably leaving around noon. So I'll be back home Sunday night bombarding you guys with more pictures!! Just kidding,..
Mackabee

pat

Good luck Mack and keep us posted. Happy anniversary and happy family!!

kiawah

Don't you guys have a common lead database, where when you work with a customer you load their information into the system? That way you'll get a split at a minimum.....or at least the center will know that another salesman is working the deal.

british_rover

Good luck Mack. My mom went through Cancer when I was a kid and I remember how tough it was. Positive energy and prayers going your way.

isellhondas

Victor...

You are one tough guy who has overcome adversity in the past. You can and will beat this.

You have a great family and a lot of friends who will help you through this. I hope you count me as one of those people.

God Bless You!

scottinky

my dad just went though chemo for his lymphoma, although his case was
minor, the treatment cured him. HIs doc said the cancer is all but gone,
his cell count was back to normal, etc. stay healthy.

jipster

Good luck and hope you enjoyed your trip mac. Thanks to all who shared info on how and why sometimes cars for sale aren't always available. And isell... you're still my favorite poster, despite the occasional disagreement.

kyfdx

There's a car dealer in Russell Springs? :surprise:

Of course, you can take a 30-40 minute drive to the big city of Somerset..

mackabee

Oh yeah, we got a common database. Problem is when a customer e-mails it doesn't have an address or phone number to cross reference. So the call center now makes it their customer. The only time I have a problem with this is when I've worked a customer and made a deal and they call the store to get a hold of me they are automatically transfered to the call center since floor sales don't handle incoming calls anymore. Even if the customer tells them they are looking for Mack, they go ahead and count it as a "lead" for their department. I don't really care if they do as they get paid on appointments and so forth but that was a customer that I brought in not them. To my way of thinking that's very unethical.
'Mack' :shades:

mackabee

been catching up on the posts. I had to eat my dinner: A MONSTER CHIPOTLE CARNITAS BURRITO!

which must have weighed four pounds! I'm stuffed! Here's another view of it, naked.


This thing was so big they had to wrap it in two pieces of foil and it took two of us to put it in the trunk.

metmdx

Mack:
You sure there's not a body wrapped in there?
Sounds like you had a great weeekend...always
does wonders for the mind as well as the soul!

One business related item if you don't mind;
you said last week that there was 3.9 to 5.9
financing on the '08 Sienna. Can you confirm that's a
national program or just your region?

Thanks again,
metmdx

mackabee

Thanks man. I really do appreciate it. I know I raz you a lot on this board but it's because I like you....NOT! just kidding. I know how you must have felt. I lost my mom to cancer three years ago and there's not a day goes by I don't think about her. My only regret is I didn't spend more time with her. So every time you see her or speak to her on the phone tell her you love her.
Mack