Stories from the Sales Frontlines

oldfarmer50

"...How about the response you gave to 'snake' in post 23876?..."

If I did that to a car dealer and involved my wife, not only would I not get a ride home, but I would probably end up sleeping in my car when I got back. :sick:

She reminds me frequently not to embarrass her in public fighting with salespeople.

manamal

I had my key.....they could not find their key.

manamal

That is the store....

rockylee

So imidazol97, can I make a reccomendation pal ??? How about a used GMC Jimmy or Chevy Blazer. My 16 year old brother has a 98' Chevy Blazer 4x4 and it's pretty darn nice. :shades:

-Rocky

obyone

Chevy Blazer? I would think something like this would work a lot better....

jmonroe

Well there is the possibility that you are engaging in the act of kidnapping and grand theft (you did take the car frauduantly).

Well, I guess anything is possible. This could have been the first time a kidnapper returned the the kidnapee's before a kidnapping was reported.

Also what were you going to have them arrested for? Losing keys?

No, I wanted them to find my keys quickly, ergo the police involvement. I'm sure the police have heard of this type of behavior before and might have their ways.

However, now I read that the OP had his keys but the dealer lost the keys to the blocker. I'm going to talk to him as soon as I hang up here. :confuse:

Last time I checked that wasn't illegal.

Do you really check this kind of stuff? :surprise:

jmonroe

dino001

I would not let it go. I would write a long letter to VW of America describing your experience, stating that conduct of the dealer just cost them at least one sale and demanding disciplinary action.

Then I would write to the dealer's GM doing exactly the same demanding apology big time. I would consider calling media, but that depends how much time I really had.

Even if you have no actionable evidence, there is still a chance somebody who may listen. The only way to teach those pricks anything is actually to make a stink to the point that it stops paying off doing that.

jmonroe

...not only would I not get a ride home, but I would probably end up sleeping in my car when I got back.

Sometimes you just gotta man-up and take charge. I know this must come across as comical coming from me but I've tried this, a few times, in a regrettably weak moment.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I had my key.....they could not find their key.

Now, you see what you've gone and done by not making it clear what was going on here? You got a couple of otherwise mild mannered posters going at each other. I'll bet the guys in the biz just ate that up. :mad:

So, I guess you only preferred to have them remove the blocker cause you don't really like doing landscaping with the family sedan.

jmonroe

rockylee

Well I don't think imidazol97, is going to spend that much money on his 16 yr. old kid......

-Rocky

210delray

Well a Blazer or Jimmy of that generation is about the last thing I'd recommend for a 16-year-old: See this and this.

210delray

Oh yeah, good old Rosenthal! I see they haven't changed in over 25 years. :sick:

I used to live in Northern VA.

obyone

A very close friend of mine sold his pristine '99 Camaro SS. After selling the car, his 16 year old son who has yet to get his drivers license said that he had wanted the car. My friend thinking that most kids want a TSX or a 90's Supra was stumped. He told me that his son doesn't want to be seen in a ricer :shades: .

He finds another pristine '02 Camaro SS six speed with 19K miles that he bought for $16K. I asked the guy if his son has been to racing school before driving that Camaro. He replied that he doesn't think it's going to be a problem since he can't drive standard. Talk about way too much car for a 16 year old. Imagine doing a burnout on wet pavement with that locker going sideways.

rockylee

I like the kid already. I don't think it's to much car if the boy is responsible and has a good sound character.

-Rocky

rockylee

Well it's a lot safer than a lot of cars of that generation especially those little japanese rice burners.

-Rocky

jmonroe

I like the kid already. I don't think it's to much car if the boy is responsible and has a good sound character.

We only think we can detect these traits. It isn’t as easy as it first appears.

Young drivers don’t need nor should they have near racing cars. In fact, I’m not a fan of a kid still in high school having their own car but I know it happens in this busy world we live in now. I remember being told by a “professional driving instructor” that son # 1was a darn good driver at the age of 16 yet he wrecked the first time out. No one hurt, only minor sheet metal damage. If you want to read more about this go to Edmunds forum: “Best Car for a new teenage driver” post 145 and its follow up post 175.

Kids are still kids and they need a lot of supervision from their parents. Hopefully their parents can provide this and they have the common sense to look around and see what can happen when you don’t do the right things. Providing high horsepower cars for kids is not the way I would do it.

jmonroe

imidazol97

The best thing to do is park the cell phone during driving and the fancy stereo setups inviting distraction while driving needing adjusting, changing music, etc.

Watched a kid hit a car waiting for left turn several weeks ago. He was reaching for his cell phone and didn't notice a red car with red taillights in clear daylight. Luckily no one was hurt other than some cuts for him. He may have been out-of-place for the air bag. Oddly his pride didn't seem hurt as his mother picked him up. New black Cobalt RS with expensive chrome wheels dented? Oh well, seemed to be his attitude. His mother obvious didn't approach the accident the way I would have while picking him up.

jmonroe

The best thing to do is park the cell phone during driving and the fancy stereo setups inviting distraction while driving needing adjusting, changing music, etc.

I won't argue with any of that.

My son couldn't have used any of those excuses. Cell phones didn't exist and only had a standard sedan AM/FM radio which he said was off because the kids in the car were talking about the dance they were going to. :confuse:

He was, however, clearly guilty of not paying attention to road conditions. :mad:

jmonroe

roadburner

The best thing to do is park the cell phone during driving and the fancy stereo setups inviting distraction while driving needing adjusting, changing music, etc.

I agree that those things are important, but allow me to insert a plug for the Street Survival program. I strongly believe that teens need quality behind-the-wheel instruction in order to become a safe driver. I also think that you shouldn't put any kid into any sort of high performance car without constant supervision. I instruct at Street Survival events from time to time, and we emphasize that the kids need to bring the car that they usually drive. I've had 17 year old kids show up in a new WRX STi or a Mustang GT. Unbelievable.

jmonroe

I've had 17 year old kids show up in a new WRX STi or a Mustang GT. Unbelievable.

That goes beyond "Unbelievable". That's SCARY.

And if something happens, I'm sure the dumbfounded parents that sent their kids to the Street Survival program will say, "I sent him/her to good driving course". :confuse:

jmonroe

sterlingdog

You ARE getting older. I understood fully whose keys he was talking about. BTW, as you and "Snake" go back and forth, don't forget who was kidnapped first. That's the reason for going to the police department. His explanation would be that he tricked his kidnappers into riding with him to the cops. Hollywood has done this sequence before.

madmanmoo

Hrm, one kidnapping begets another. Strange.

I'm sure all these scnenarios are in jest. I think what the original poster did was probably the best case. Considering the scenario, he did well.

-moo

qbrozen

my subscriptions are acting up and I have no idea if Mack finished his Frank story. Was there an end to this or is it still unresolved?

sterlingdog

Like you, I'm not a fan of high school kids having a car, but the excuse of needing one because we live in a busy world is not the complete story. Too many parents are buying "love" with their wallets. I see parents driving old cars so that the children can have new ones. Kids wear designer clothes while dad has holes in his shoes. The situation is beyond ridiculous. Kids have arrived at the point that nothing is really appreciated or treasured. As another poster just stated, the kid that had the accident in his new car had that "oh well,---" attitude.

I was present on Christmas morning to see my two great nephews open their gifts. They are 7 and 9 years of age. My nephew insisted on getting the boys dirt bikes. Their mother insisted on getting them lap top computers. So, they got both. My sister, the grandmother, gave them 19" LCD/HDTV television sets. All of this in addition to clothes and other games. I just couldn't take it all in at the time. Here's the strange part---my wife and I gave them a basketball goal and ONE basketball. That's what they talked about all day. Next year, they will be 8 and 10 years of age. What is left to give other than cars?

Why must children have everything, and have it NOW? I know that I'm old and probably just don't understand, but the year that I got my bicycle and a new winter coat was the Christmas of my life. Dad helped me get a used car my senior year in college so that I could drive from the university to the school 25 miles away where I was assigned to do my student teaching internship. I made payments to him each month when I got my first teaching position. I washed that car every week and treated it like a new baby. Mom loaned me some money once when my wife and I were in graduate school. I didn't hesitate to pay her back when my salary went up the next year. Where did we go wrong with the new generation? Gosh, I'm glad my parents taught me values and appreciation.

sterlingdog

Tricking your captors into getting you to the police station is NOT another kidnapping.

I do agree that the poster probably did the best thing that he could at the time. It is easy for all of us to give advice after the fact. Still, I would write the letter to VW, review the dealership on this site, etc. Business needs to learn that there are limits to dealing with customers.

lrguy44

I really have to doubt the total validity of this story - maybe 30 years ago this could have happened but not in this day and age. Lost keys - maybe - but not the car blacking etc.

madmanmoo

The problem is it won't matter. None of the letter writing or phone calls are going to make a bit of difference. The only thing that makes a difference is not buying there.

These dealers obviously don't care or else they wouldn't be operating in this manner in the first place. (Provided all the details were as they were presented.) All that phone call to the dealership will do is produce a laugh or two. VW will tell you that you need to discuss this problem with the originating dealership. It IS a franchise after all. VW sells cars. Dealership sells cars. The dealership has to deal with customer satisfaction regarding the sale. VW has to deal with customer satisfaction regarding their product.

-moo

dino001

Not buying is a big part of it - but lost sales are often "invisible" to a business. PR is. If enough people complain with enough volume, bad behavior may be seen as not good business. Not because they love their customers so much, but because they lose them and their families, friends, acquintances. Letting them know that may accelerate the "resocialization".

madmanmoo

If by "Do everything" you mean has a steering wheel and 4 wheels, yes. Exact same ride.



-moo

madmanmoo

I agree. PR does play a small role, but typically only with dealerships that actually care. You would need to have a large volume of people complaining before it gets noticed.

If I have a bad business transaction with someone, I simply never use them again. I shared this story before, but I had a carpet cleaning company come by my house and gave me an estimate. We agreed to do business with the folks and they went ahead and cleaned. They told me certain stains would not be a problem to get out but they were. I didn't raise a fuss, I just chalked it up to their overpromising. He presented me with the invoice at the end of the transaction and it was for the estimate that we had agreed upon. Ok, no problem. 3 days later, I get a call from the owner saying they didn't charge me enough. I told them to go pound sand. I'm not going to complain to anyone, I just won't do business with them again. Why? So that I can save myself some time and energy. They aren't worth it to me.

That's my mentality with these sorts of problems. He didn't buy from them and had a bad experience. Talk about it a little bit and then move on. It's not worth your energy.

-moo

isellhondas

" It's not worth your energy"

I totally agree. Life is short, move on.

obyone

"Life is short, move on. "

Exactly. Funny it takes a few years to figure this out. Sure wish I had known this while in my 20's as I would have saved myself a lot of grief.

jmonroe

Lost keys - maybe - but not the car blacking etc.

Why is this so hard to comprehend? I say this car blocking game is just an extension of claiming that keys are lost. Be it the customer's keys or the dealer's keys. :confuse:

I'm sure you work at a dealership that doesn't play games like this and I think most dealers today are better than years ago but we all know there are rouges out there.

jmonroe

madmanmoo

but we all know there are rouges out there.

Rouge = Red in French
Red = Communist

Are you saying that there are communist dealerships out there and that this is the way they conduct business? I think you're obfuscating the issue here.

:P

-moo

obyone

Wow nice spin!!

wlbrown9

Hum... How about getting in a laying on the horn for a few minutes if they will not find the keys or move the blocker? See what response that gets and if that does not work, then leave over the landscaping perhaps.

jmonroe

Where did we go wrong with the new generation?

I’d say you did a very good job at naming quite a few.

I’m sure some would say I spoiled my sons. Each generation seems to have more and more. I remember son # 1 saying that they discussed this very subject at various levels of his education even in college. He said to me before he was married, “I’ve heard the stories about each generation having more and more and the reasons why this is but I think my generation may be at the point where we might have to say to our kids, I hope I can afford to give you all the things I had”.

So far he’s doing a pretty good job with his 3 sons but he ain’t perfect. I still have to open my mouth at times.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I think you're obfuscating the issue here.

No...but this is what happens when I don't know how to spell. My teachers told me this would happen but I thought they were just trying to make a big thing out of nothing. :mad:

jmonroe

jmonroe

See what response that gets and if that does not work, then leave over the landscaping perhaps.

That's exactly what the OP did. While I still like the jmonroe method, the landscape thing drives the point home a lot faster.

jmonroe

madmanmoo

-moo

lrguy44

By lost keys I meant they might have been left on the SMs desk, etc. and take a minute or two to locate - I did not mean thrown on the roof.

mackabee

The Frank story ends with us letting the customers go since we can't meet their payment on a Ltd 4runner.
On another note, I received the survey from the first customers he pissed off that I cleaned the mess up.
And get this, even though I hammered the point home about the survey, they still took out their frustrations with Frank on my survey. I told them "Please, when you get the survey leave whatever happened between you and Frank out of it. Now it's my survey. You promise to do that?" and they agreed. Well luckily I talked to the GSM about it and he said he would not penalize me on it. Right now I'm sitting at a perfect 100 for the month of December but who knows what it will drop to after this survey. Frank is on vacation this week otherwise I would give him a piece of my mind.
:mad:

isellit

I thought for sure they would pay the $50.00 and drive a real LTD.

snakeweasel

don't forget who was kidnapped first.

Nobody was kidnapped first. Blocking the car does not equal kidnapping, the alleged victim could still leave the premises. They could easily walked away or even had someone pick them up. They were not prevented from leaving.

jmonroe

They could easily walked away or even had someone pick them up. They were not prevented from leaving.

Just a mere technicality…picky, picky, picky. :P

While I was in full retirement mode, I often went to a coffee shop in the morning and hung out with other retirees (quite a cross section of characters). Got to know a few of the local police too (it’s true, they love donuts). Got to hear a lot of funny stuff especially from the K-9 cop guy.

Where I’m going with this is, I got to know them pretty well. A couple of them went so far as to tell me if I ever got pulled over, to tell the cop so and so said not to mess with me and if necessary to have him call them. Since I’m a good boy, that’s probably not going to happen. So, I don’t think it would be asking too much for them to tell me what would happen if a customer brought a couple of sleazy car guys in who were holding their keys, car, or pulled the ole’ blocker thing on them.

I’m going to put this issue in my memory bank (no wise cracks) and if I ever see one of them, I’ll post what they say. Now don’t even think about suggesting that I purposely get myself pulled over by one of them, cause I ain’t gonna go that far to settle this.

jmonroe

joel0622

GP, was it last Wed. that I started paying my debt to Patriots land? If so tomorrow is my last day, correct?

"Imports are superior"

dmax4me

Been lurkin for a bit and just wanted to chime in on this one. If I may: As much as I would cherish the idea of driving out over the lanscaping, this is what would happen if I tried it: I would arrive home, satisfied that I addressed the situation without belting the guy, and playback the messages on my machine. "Hi Mr. Smith this is the local police. We'd like you to come down to the station to answer some questions regarding $3500.00 worth of vandalism at a dealership. You might as well bring a check for the owner right away." Not exactly how it would play out, but you get the idea.

sterlingdog

Depending on the location of the dealership---out of town or along an interstate, I am held hostage without my transportation. I can't call someone to pick me up if I don't have a cell phone to use and they won't allow me to use one of theirs. If I just walk away, then the dealer is guilty of auto theft of my car at the very least. Finally, how can I be sure that they would let me leave, depending on how desperate this dealership must be in the first place?

I hope you don't have to work next Saturday. It always puts you in a bad mood. :P

manamal

In my case, I was just driving over soft grass. It is possible that they did misplace the keys....I do not know. While they were "looking" for the keys, they continued to talk to me about the car. I looked at the time....as said I have to leave now....there are two ways I can leave: forward or backward. So, I essentially gave them about 1 minute to find the key. If I did not go forward, I would have had to hit their car.

I did get a follow-up call today....I said I would not be buying from them, as I did not like the way I was blocked in. He apologized for that, said that the keys were with a porter to take the car back to the lot....I told him that I did not leave the car their.

At least they did not squish my car (ala National Lampoon's Vacation).

sterlingdog

Moo, based on my experience last August I have to believe that you may be correct. Sadly, my letter to Toyota in Japan and my review of the dealership on Edmunds hasn't changed the progress of my local dealership at all. In fact, the unethical salesman and the dishonest SM are still there. Still, I will take every opportunity to tell friends and neighbors that it is not the place to purchase an automobile. Perhaps I'm wrong but here is the picture that I am getting on this site: Surveys are tied to dollars and not to dealership improvement or customer satisfaction. I would give most of you a great survey, but the ones who need a bad survey don't post here.