Stories from the Sales Frontlines

kiawah

Tune in again tomorrow for the exciting conclusion of: A doozy of a story!

Mack........More! More!

joel0622

I will put it twice here to make up for it

"Imports are superior"

"Imports are superior"

verdugo

HAHA

That was a good comeback.

sterlingdog

I'm all for people enjoying what they do. Whether you enjoy work or don't enjoy work, one fact remains---most of us have (had) to work. Life is about choices. Sacrifices will be made---some wise and some not so wise. If isellhondas enjoys working, I would be the last one to discourage him. Reflection and age brings a certain amount of wisdom. Americans work more hours and for more years than in most countries. We also live with superiors who take credit for your ideas and hard work. That is when a gold cigarette case adds insult to injury. I look at it this way: I'm a survivor and I'm happy. I wish that for everyone here.

mackabee

I took today off but went in for about half and hour to deliver a Tundra to a really nice couple that purchased it on New Year's Eve. After I was done I called the customer up to let them know their payments on a buy would be waaaayyyyy higher than on the lease. I left a message on their voice mail but didn't hear back from them.
Meantime I seen Frank talking on the phone with some unsuspecting soul. If you've seen the Grady the Badger commercials you've seen Frank.
Mackabee

sterlingdog

I might---if I had to, and that is a very big "IF." Also, would I be transported back 40 years with the memories of the last 40 years? Now that WOULD be something to change ones perspective!

sterlingdog

Moo, try to be careful. Rather than staying in after school, they may give you In School Suspension---that room with black curtains over the windows and a bagged lunch with no recess and only one bathroom break per day.

sterlingdog

Mack, I can understand why you had to "continue" the story. It is fabulous! When I was in HR, I sometimes had to fire a "Frank" for much less than what this guy has done. He needs to be tied to the back of a Tundra and drug to the couple's home to make apologies. His salary should go toward a $5,000 discount for these people.

Your crew really needs that workshop on Teaming and Change. I would lower my price just to meet some of these fools!

sterlingdog

On the way home from taking my niece to the airport today, my wife and I were discussing cars---a rarity for her. We counted the number of cars that we had owned in 40 years of marriage. The total came to 26. That has to be above average---or is it? I then counted the number of them that we really enjoyed and arrived at 24---not a bad average. No one can say that I didn't give car salesmen a fair amount of business. Hopefully, I'm not finished yet.

mackabee

I'll pass it on to the GM.

chikoo

Americans work more hours and for more years than in most countries.

Not where I come from. I only had 1 day off each week (Sunday), and I was not the exception. 6 day work weeks.....When I came to the US, it was like free vacation every week. I couldn't figure out what to do with the extra 1 day that I had each week.
I ended up doing my MBA 'cause I did not want to waste that 1 day holiday every week.

imidazol97

We had a couple of the passive agressive types like Frank who messed up but it's really because they are "such good guys" and "they're trying to be so helpful, etc. They stay very mild and meek but actually are aggressive about doing it their way and only their way. They quietly skip meetings that were called. There also is a self-righteous factor to the personality. It kept aggitating other employees with the friction. I preferred to have someone with some vim and vigor to their spirit; they would communicate and change.

Sounds like Frank with the passive aggressive.

oldfarmer50

"...Not where I come from..."

Russia? China? New Jersey?

chikoo

India. .....see my profile.

stickguy

I think those stats are for Western Europe (Spain, Italy, Sweden ,etc.) You know, the countries with economy and population problems!

mackabee

That describes Frank OR as I like to call him Grady.

cdnpinhead

traveling regularly to Taiwan a decade or so ago, what I noticed was that the people there were working way late into the night, on the weekend, on holidays & all the rest. I believe that the smartest people who work the hardest will win. The people in Taiwan qualify, and I'm sure many other Asian countries should be included as well.

Those with 4-12 weeks of paid holiday, 35 hour workweeks & government-supported everything -- not so much.

Which direction is the U.S. headed? I guess we'll learn later this year.

cccompson

Stopped at a Toyota store last Sunday to take a look at a left-over '07 Sequoia. The young salesman was surprisingly well-versed on the product and actually quite helpful though I declined a test drive due to time constraints. As I was leaving he asked for my phone number which I declined to provide, explaining that I did not want to be called.

Imagine my surprise today when I got a call at work from either the store or Toyota itself (not sure as it was an 888 number that is unlisted). I again said that I didn't wish to be called and terminated the call. Hours later the salesman left a voicemail trying to solicit business.

Now, I did give the salesman my name and have bought parts at this store before so I must be in their database. Years ago, I leased a car at another store in the chain so that's another possible source for my work number.

Two questions:

1) Are dealers so desperate and/or disrespectful that they don't feel they need to abide by a customer's explicit wishes?

2) Not sure about other states but do dealers not understand that calling somebody after specifically being told not to is a criminal offense (telephone harassment) in Ohio?

tidester

Are dealers so desperate and/or disrespectful that they don't feel they need to abide by a customer's explicit wishes?

Sometimes "no" means "maybe" as in "I have no plans to run for president."

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

stickguy

well, I have heard (from sales guys here) that some places will actually get you info from a license plate look up.

But, since they called you at work, it probably came up when the salesguy (properly) logged the interaction in their database.

Sometimes that can generate automatic call backs (hard to talk to a computer). As to the salesdude, maybe he forgot, maybe he thought you didn't really mean it, or maybe he thought you weren't likely to come back and he had nothing to lose?

It is also possible that the dealership made him do it.

greanpea68

) Not sure about other states but do dealers not understand that calling somebody after specifically being told not to is a criminal offense (telephone harassment) in Ohio?


Yes that law is nation wide law to my understanding. But this probably what happened. You left the kid's boss probably asked where you went. ( assuming a manager didn't talk to you before you left). The kid said "he left Boss" Manager " did you get his name or number" The kid " No , I just got his name" Manager "what is it?"

The manager looks you up and gets your contact info from the data base. Now the manager wants to get a hold of you because you are looking for a good deal on a 2007. Which means you are in the market so it is best to get ahold of you now.

Is the right thing to do? In my opinion no.... But that is what happens everyday. If sales people listened to customers everyday... I am not buying today, I want to look at another vehicle etc.,etc.... If we ;istened to that stuff nobody would sell any cars. My question to you is if you really weren't interested why did you go in? I understand curiousness gets the best of us. If you are serious I would think you would want to be contacted. What if something changed at the dealer and they could get yo a better deal?

GP

GP

joel0622

It is also possible that the dealership made him do it.

There are stores that demand that you make xx number of cold calls a day, xx number of follow up calls a day, xx number of calls to service customers A day, etc etc. At the end of the day you turn in a sheet with all your calls logged and a manager will at random pick several people out and verify the sales guy made the calls he logged.

If you don't your fired.

The guy might have needed one more follow up call to make the quota.

A store like that does not care if you are offended by the call or not.

micosilver

One of my co-workers was trying to work a deal with a customer (or maybe the customer was trying to work us?...) on a Mazda at the last day of the month. She was making all dealerships in the area compete with each other in the "who will lose more money" competition. Since this is not our favorite sport, we decided to lose at $1,000 under invoice, while another dealership was matching it, plus giving her a free Garmin navigation.
Now, aparently, we had the only car in the area that she wanted, and once the other dealer got her commitment - they called us for the trade, which we respectfully declined - it is a hot car, if not this customer - someone else will buy it.
Today this lady calls the salesman and leaves him an angry message:
" I made a deal with another dealership because they beat your price, but now you are holding "my" car hostage, now they are charging me $700 for shipping another car from further away, and my lawyer will sue you".
Om a sidenote - we know that the only other car in the same configuration is about 2 hours away, and that dealership is most likely just lying to her about the shipping, so they can cover their loses.

lemko

I believe the NYPD used them in 1962 and 1977.

cccompson

Well, perhaps they'll care just a bit when I write a letter to the GM to explain the situation and that

1) I'll never set foot on that lot or those of the chain again;

2) I'll urge everybody I know to do likewise; and

3) His employee(s) is/are engaged in criminal behavior and if I get another call I'll swear out a criminal complaint.

I've run this scenario past several people today and, like me, they've been appalled.

To another poster: nope, he couldn't run the plate because I wasn't in my car.

To yet another: I stopped to see exactly how the truck was set up because their website does not specifically list optional equipment (kudos to Ford and GM for understanding how to do this right).

kiawah

Heck, she could have gotten his and her Garmins for that $700.

But this doesn't make sense, why would she agree to pay the extra 700 for shipping, if she can just come to you and buy it for the 1K under as offered?

afob3

Long time lurker..

but when I saw this earlier today I thought it was the perfect fit to the saga. Co-Worker and I were talking about old Saturday Night Live skits and remembered the "Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey" skits. A quick google search gave us this one on broken promises. It immediately made me think of this story and all the "Franks" out there in the world.

BTW... I'm not in sales. Just someone who likes cars and stumbled on this forum that gives me a little dose of entertainment each day.

Now back to your regular programming.....

sterlingdog

There are many differences between the labor styles and work habits of India and the United States. Over the years, I was fortunate enough to have studied and lived in your country, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan as a Fulbright Scholar. I found that in your country the workers do not get in a hurry or stressed out to meet deadlines or quotas. The "two men on a shovel" helps with unemployment and, unfortunately, the child labor force is not protected by sound legislation. The lengthy lunch break and the early closing of shops would necessitate working a six day week. As for having time to do graduate work, I could have held a banking position in your country, worked a second job, and still had time to work on my PhD. I'm not saying that all of this is necessarily a bad mode of life, but it is just different than in the United States.

As for automobiles, they are more treasured and sought after than in the United States. A professor friend of mine in Bombay was on a waiting list for two years to purchase a five year old Toyota. His wife waited for a year for her new refrigerator which arrived dented. She was still thrilled and showed it off to my wife as quite an item of status. When we attended their son's wedding, the Toyota was "loaned" for the honeymoon trip---quite a statement to be made in front of the wedding party and guests. It was quite gratifying to learn how much modern conveniences are appreciated and respected in your country.

mackabee

Why didn't you go to www.toyota.com? Also if you have done business with that dealership group in the last 12 months or 18 months they can call you.

sterlingdog

If anyone has ever diagnosed a personality correctly, you have. Frank is most definitely a passive aggressive personality---the most dangerous of the basic 8 types of personalities. They are the ones who can destroy a business, wreck a home, bring discord to a church congregation, and set friend against friend. I used to be grateful if they did miss a meeting. In a meeting, they will whisper little negative comments to their neighbor in an attempt to plant the seeds of discord. As you say, they want to do it their way and if you try to change it, they appear hurt and remorseful. The next day, they go on doing it their way. They will "lie like a dog" to everyone---customers, co-workers, bosses, etc. :mad:

Until they were fired, I found that the best way to deal with the "Franks" was to announce in a meeting how well "Frank" had expressed the way things were going on a project. That just kills them, because they don't want things to go well. Another way to get to them is to ask in a meeting if they feel ok or if they would like to contribute something to the conversation since they are such a good team player. This last one will really piss them off.

Mack, watch your back. Now that you have blessed him out in front of others, he will be after you. Don't leave important paper work on your desk. He will either steal it or make copies of it and put it back. I've had that happen. "Franks" know no limits in their pursuit to destroy. :sick:

sterlingdog

Something happened in my last post with those motorcons. Just ignore them. Thanks.

mrrk47

I've been working in car sales now for one month and I now have a very different view on "the car salesperson" than I used to. You(the customer) might as well spray paint a big red target on your back when you walk onto a dealership because before you actually make contact with a salesperson you are open game(I mean that as respectfully as I can). You( the customer) are the salesperson's livelyhood, you are diiference between having a job or not for the salesperson.
I admit I would never call someone if they told me not to, but to amswer your question.....Yes, we can be desperate at times...so don't paint us as these lurking bloodsucking monsters.

venture

...so don't paint us as these lurking bloodsucking monsters.

I don't remember anyone ever refering to a car salesman as "lurking"

venture

I parked beside one of these Mustangs at, of all places, Lowes today.

Cool ride. I didn't know what it was at first until I saw the SALEEN on the top of the windshield.

cccompson

Toyota's website is exactly where I first checked, Mack. Unless I'm going something wrong, one must then go to each dealer's website to search inventory. Amazingly, some store still don't even have sites and many don't post inventory. Of those that do, it's never clear precisely what options a particular unit carries.

With Ford and GM one can check inventory and view the actual window stickers of specific vehicles. GM's site used to be easier to navigate than it is now though. Why is it that web designers can't leave well enough alone? Also, GM's site doesn't seem to like Windows Vista at all.

jescue

Why would you make an offer of $1000 UNDER invoice on a car unless there is dealer cash or rebates? You said it was a "hot" car so why would you lose money on it? Was there a volume bonus or something? :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...We decided to lose at $1000 under invoice...it is a hot car..."

I normally don't pick apart sales stories but this one just worked at me. I have to know--

Which Mazda is "hot" right now? I think they are nice cars but I've not heard any buzz about them which would indicate they are hot.

If the car was hot, why would you do a $1000 under invoice? That goes against everything I've read here about price and demand.

It seems like pitting dealers against each other worked well for this woman. Are you saying that if I blow into a dealership and act like a dick I'll get a better deal? :confuse:

oldfarmer50

"...I've run this scenario past several people..."

Why not try this when someone calls trying to sell something you don't want...

Salesman: "Mr. ccompson I have a great deal on a 2007 Hooptie with automatic backscratcher."

You: Great, I'll be down in two hours. I have to stop at the welfare office to pick up my check first. BTW, can I get those payments under $200 with a 350 credit score? NO? Well call me back when you can.

snakeweasel

I think thats right, in Europe where they have 36 hour weeks and the whole country takes a month of vacation at the same time they think we over work ourselves. But in countries like Japan when they work 36 hour days they think we are lazy.

snakeweasel

Question, if its a hot car why did you decide to lose money? Why not price the car with a reasonable profit and if she didn't buy it sell it to the next one who wants it?

Om a sidenote - we know that the only other car in the same configuration is about 2 hours away, and that dealership is most likely just lying to her about the shipping

Well that dealer is most likely doing the same thing you are, keeping it for one of their customers.

snakeweasel

I found that in your country the workers do not get in a hurry or stressed out to meet deadlines or quotas.

Oh yeah? Sit in my department every other Tuesday.

jipster

If anyone has ever diagnosed a personality correctly, you have. Frank is most definitely a passive aggressive personality---the most dangerous of the basic 8 types of personalities. They are the ones who can destroy a business, wreck a home, bring discord to a church congregation, and set friend against friend. I used to be grateful if they did miss a meeting. In a meeting, they will whisper little negative comments to their neighbor in an attempt to plant the seeds of discord

hmmm.. sounds like a borderline personality disorder to me. Where I work at that means trouble with a capital "T". :sick:

greanpea68

" I made a deal with another dealership because they beat your price, but now you are holding "my" car hostage, now they are charging me $700 for shipping another car from further away, and my lawyer will sue you".

I love it when that stuff happens

greanpea68

Well, perhaps they'll care just a bit when I write a letter to the GM to explain the situation and that

1) I'll never set foot on that lot or those of the chain again;

2) I'll urge everybody I know to do likewise; and

3) His employee(s) is/are engaged in criminal behavior and if I get another call I'll swear out a criminal complaint.

I've run this scenario past several people today and, like me, they've been appalled.

To another poster: nope, he couldn't run the plate because I wasn't in my car.

To yet another: I stopped to see exactly how the truck was set up because their website does not specifically list optional equipment (kudos to Ford and GM for understanding how to do this right).
CCC,

Don't you think you are over reacting a little bit. You were a customer of the store once. They called you. You said "no Thanks" .... End of story. You are acting like they sold you a lemon. :confuse:

Let it go... You said the kid did a good job showing the vehicle right? Maybe he is just covering all of his bases. He actualy sounds like a good salesman. That is it end of story he is just trying to be a good salesman. Trying to prospect.

If you are talking about the fact that you are on the " Do Not Call List " ... The rule says if you contact a store they have 3 months to follow up with you. YEs if you tell not to call after the first call than it could be harrasment. But that isn't the point I am trying to make.

With all respect I am surprised you didn't get a chuckle out of the kid working so hard. You are posting on " The stories from the frontlines" and i think you have so knowledge of what it is like in the car business after all this time.

I can understand venting, but to ruin a dealership's name because so sales guy called you from there Data base. Something tells me in 2-3 weeks none of this will matter anymore.

GP
Replies to this message:
mackabee (Jan 04, 2008 7:14 pm)

theatasigma

" I made a deal with another dealership because they beat your price, but now you are holding "my" car hostage, now they are charging me $700 for shipping another car from further away, and my lawyer will sue you".

Too funny, I wondered where she thought the other dealer was going to get the car. I love how people today get so wrapped up in "The Deal" trying to take as much off as possible. They lose sight of when the deal should be closed even if it means they have to pay just a bit more to get a sweet deal.

TS

cccompson

GP, I haven't named the store so it can hardly be said this is an attempt to "...ruin a dealership's name..."

Overreacting? Nope, not when they are told twice not to call and continue to do so. Making this worse was that the calls were to my work number. You know, some folks can get in trouble for receiving non-business calls at work.

And, no, this has nothing to do with a "Do Not Call" lists. It has to do with criminal conduct, whether or not sanctioned by store management. See Ohio Revised Code Section 2917.21 (Telecommunications Harassment) which reads in pertinent part:

(A) No person shall knowingly make or cause to be made a telecommunication, or knowingly permit a telecommunication to be made from a telecommunications device under the person's control, to another, if the caller does any of the following:

(5) Knowingly makes the telecommunication to the recipient of the telecommunication, to another person at the premises to which the telecommunication is made, or to those premises, and the recipient or another person at those premises previously has told the caller not to make a telecommunication to those premises or to any persons at those premises.

My guess is that every state has a statute like this and I would encourage those of you in the business to become familiar with your applicable law.

sterlingdog

Did you misunderstand? "Your country..." was India, not the U.S.

joel0622

Not trying to sound rude or cavalier in any way but this is causing you much more stress and anguish then any letter you will ever write will cause the employee or the dealer.

The best thing you can do is never take your sales or service business to them again and you will have achieved the most effective defense the consumer has against a retailer............Not spending there money at said place of business.

Anything else will require lawyers and a bunch of he said she said johnny shot the sheriff will go on and in the end you will have nothing but a bill from a lawyer.

"Imports are superior"

sterlingdog

Here's what I do: When I get the call, I ask them if they can hold on for a moment. I put the phone on hold and never go back to it. You have to wonder how long they sit there. If they are dumb enough to call back, I look at the Caller ID and then just let voice mail take over. Reminder: You need to refresh your number with the National Do Not Call List Registry once a year.

Here is another one that I saw in a movie but haven't tried: Keep a coaching whistle by the phone. As they begin to speak, blow it directly into the phone. I bet that feels good to the ears.

joel0622

Whenever I get a sales call at home my caller ID show "Privacy Director" When I answer the phone there is a recording of who ever it is wishing to speak, I then can hit 1 to answer 2 to ignore, or 3 for sales reject.

For the first 6 months I had no idea what it was and kept searching on the web for companies called privacy director.

"Imports are superior"