Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mackabee

After all the crying the lady did I think it was better we didn't do the deal. I would have hated the survey, even though they say they won't they do.

mackabee

You got that one right Richard. I've hesitated giving my GM your info as I doubt that he'd take action. As long as cars are being sold and he's making the big bucks I don't think they care much about improving the way things are done.
The survey I got today complained about them having to spend 2.5 hours at the dealership to complete paperwork and pick up their vehicle. They also complained about having to sit through a 15-20 presentation by our rust and dust girl even though they bought the stuff. But I guess some people will do anything for the lowest price. In an effort to save a deal and satisfy the customer we get a bad survey. :sick:

sterlingdog

Good grief. Were you blocked in or not? If nothing was in front of you, then you were not blocked in, right? Now you've got me in trouble with "Snake" and "jmonroe." :confuse:

snakeweasel

I am held hostage without my transportation.

You have feet don't you?

I can't call someone to pick me up if I don't have a cell phone to use and they won't allow me to use one of theirs.

There are still pay phones, I am sure you could find one or at least walk to a place that will let you use theirs.

If I just walk away, then the dealer is guilty of auto theft of my car at the very least.

Legally you still have possession of your car therefor no auto theft.

Finally, how can I be sure that they would let me leave, depending on how desperate this dealership must be in the first place?

You don't until you try to leave, if you don't try to leave then you are staying there of your own free will unless you can prove duress.

sterlingdog

I think that I have read enough of your posts to know that there is no way that you spoiled son #1. There was quite a bit of wisdom in what your son said. I don't know how much longer they can afford to buy nice things for their kids. We all want our children to have more than we did, but we just have to set limits. As for opening our mouths, my wife is forever kicking me under the table and reminding me to keep peace in the family. Without her, I probably wouldn't have any relatives.

dmax4me

Ahh yes, the "family Truckster." Great movie! Think I'll have to watch that one again.

sterlingdog

If I can't get my car from them, then what do you call it?

On second thought, I hope that you have to work Saturday and Sunday. You need more work to do so that you won't have time to pick on me.

sterlingdog

Mack, I fully understand, believe me. I've noticed that my industry classes are getting smaller and smaller. In fact, this semester I'm switching back to an education class for new instructors. Industry people (management) aren't concerned with employee relations as long as the profits are there for the corporate bonuses. Also, with all of the out sourcing now, there are fewer and fewer employee concerns in this neck of the woods. I had a chance to do two months of training in Mexico, but my wife blew a gasket. She insists that we are retired...and I guess that we really are.

BTW, I wasn't surprised that Frank is on vacation. That is a typical strategy for a passive aggressive once they have screwed up a situation. We call it the "disappearing pain." I'll be up your way this spring. We'll do lunch and you can introduce me to Frank. I love to make comments to those types. Their body language tells you everything.

snakeweasel

Well the courts state that if you park the car and retain the keys then the car is in your possession. Wall vs Airport Parking of Chicago.

jmonroe

At least they did not squish my car (ala National Lampoon's Vacation).

Ahhh yeah, that was great. Just saw that the other day from when I taped it from AMC a month or so ago. I couldn't help but think about the guys here when I watched that scene in the beginning.

I know this is off topic but I like the Griswalds Christmas the best of that series. Can't tell you how many times the family has watched that one.

jmonroe

sterlingdog

Please tell me that you made up that case history. You are sooooo stubborn. My response is that I would challenge the court case in question and take it to the state appellate court, the circuit court of appeals and then to the Supreme Court. Now go to bed and let me have the last word. Better yet, go do a tax return and get some poor soul a big refund.

snakeweasel

Please tell me that you made up that case history.

Sorry I can't do that it was an actual case, one of the very few that I actually remember the name and specifics from my law classes. The courts stated that since the owner of the car parked the car himself and retained the keys the car remained in his possession. It had to do with bailment and who was responsible for damages done to the vehicle while it was parked at Chicagos Ohare airport parking lot (the parking lot operator and the airport was not liable).

Now if they had parked the car there and retained the keys you would have a case.

rockylee

We only think we can detect these traits. It isn’t as easy as it first appears.

Young drivers don’t need nor should they have near racing cars. In fact, I’m not a fan of a kid still in high school having their own car but I know it happens in this busy world we live in now. I remember being told by a “professional driving instructor” that son # 1was a darn good driver at the age of 16 yet he wrecked the first time out. No one hurt, only minor sheet metal damage. If you want to read more about this go to Edmunds forum: “Best Car for a new teenage driver” post 145 and its follow up post 175.

Holy cow !!!! No offense, but I disagree with you on all young kids are bad drivers. I could put a new 2009 ZR-1 Corvette, in my 16 yr. old brothers hands and he would drive it with caution.

Kids are still kids and they need a lot of supervision from their parents. Hopefully their parents can provide this and they have the common sense to look around and see what can happen when you don’t do the right things. Providing high horsepower cars for kids is not the way I would do it.

jmonroe

Well my parents generation drove 1960's muscle cars at age 16. Sure the common new car today would blow the doors of those old cars but given the tire and suspension technology these cars today are light years better and safer. I do agree kids need lots of practice.

Also I will say in this generations defense that I find most people above age 40 can barely operate the remote control to the TV, let alone drive and talk. So don't group the young drivers with the old folks who can't multi-task !!!!

-Rocky

manamal

I was in a dive in spot...car to the left car to the left, car to the right...eos behind me, lawn in fron.

joel0622

The survey I got today complained about them having to spend 2.5 hours at the dealership to complete paperwork and pick up their vehicle

That is one thing that really chaffs my [non-permissible content removed] when it comes to this business. People come into to make what for most is the second biggest purchase in their life and then complain because you can't drive up and talk into the clowns mouth to make your order "would you like a DVD and spoiler with that Sir"?

Yes some deals come down that you are in and out in an hour or less, usually it is those people who have achieved the perfect storm. They have done there home work, make a reasonable offer, and have hit at time there is no wait to go into F&I on a Thursday evening.

Bu then there are those who have no idea what package they want, what color they want, or sometimes what model they want. They spend 3 hours picking out a car and then are aggravated when they can't be done in 15 minutes and complain about being here all day.

If you want to get in and out pick up the phone, do some home work, have general idea what you want and have the preliminaries hashed out before you go. Then ask what the best time of day is at any particular dealership to come in. If you come into our store at 8:30 am you would for the most part have the entire staffs undivided attention, and probably get a better then normal deal because we like getting the day started on the right foot.

OK, rant over. I will step off my soap box now.

"Imports are superior"

wesleyg

to chime in here, I have responded to several calls at dealerships in my city as a police officer for 31 years, not the exact same situation but many similarities.

In Ohio, the dealership acting in this case seems to be treading on an Ohio Statute called auto conversion, which basically states assuming unlawful control of anothers vehicle without that owners permission. There is no requirement that said vehicle be driven, removed from the premises etc., merely unlawful possession of the vehicle from the rightful owner, sure sounds like this in this matter, the owner couldn't get in his vehicle and drive away. This is used when auto theft is not merited due to the circumstances of the case.

Now I cant say for sure whether an individual Judge hearing the case would buy it, but myself as a responding police officer would not hesitate to pursue this criminal statute in charging. In my opinion there is a decent chance that the Court may in fact sustain the charge. If I were the victim in this case, I know I would certainly pursue it.

lemko

The car that was crushed at the dealership appeared to be a 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser. Clark wanted the Sport Wagon in Arctic Ice or something like that, but got the Wagon Queen Family Truckster in Metallic Pea instead. "If you hate it now, wait 'til you drive it!"

I noticed in the later movies, they updated Clark's ride. In the Xmas movie, he had a Taurus wagon done up in the same ugly green with the overwrought wood trim. In the Vegas movie, he had a Ford Explorer - same color/same trim.

stickguy

Sounds like the same rule that would apply if someone came and double parked you into a parking spot, or parked blocking the end of your driveway.

joel0622

The car that was crushed at the dealership appeared to be a 1972 Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser

Isn't that the same car that Red let Eric have on That 70's Show? I know it was a Vista Cruiser, just not sure what year.

Speaking of cars in TV shows have you seen the new "Kitt" in Knight Rider?



Imports are superior

jmonroe

In my opinion there is a decent chance that the Court may in fact sustain the charge.

It’s reassuring to know that a customer has a chance against the big bad wolf dealer but how does a customer actually prove that the dealer kept keys, had a car block the customers car, etc. Once the dealer knows the customer called the police, by the time the police got there the dealer would have corrected the situation. Unless the police dept. has received numerous calls to this effect, from this dealer, I think it’s a he said she said argument.

And if you don’t mind answering another question, what do you think of the ‘jmonroe method’ of delivering the sleazeball car guys to the police dept. I have to think you’d like the idea of the customer/citizen saving you guys some time.

As much fun as it would be to watch, I know you couldn’t go along with the ‘baseball bat method’.

jmonroe

mark156

Joel, the Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser in "That 70's Show" was a 1969. When I was a kid, we had one in Meadow Green with wood paneling and green plastic interior----- it was a cool car!
I think the one in the show was brown.

Mark

joel0622

I can't believe ya'all are still talking about this

Imports are superior

mackabee

The brain of a 16 year old is not fully developed therefore they don't have the reflexes or intuition that a full grown adult has. Super cars in their hands is a recipe for disaster. Look at all the fatalities in this country involving 16 year old drivers.
:shades:

mackabee

List from CR on CNN.MONEY section. Looks like Toyota and Ford are up there!
link title

:shades:

joel0622

I got the 2007 numbers yesterday. These do not include entire Motor Companies. For example when I put Fords numbers thats Ford only not FLM same for Chevy and GM.

The B, C, D, and E's are size classifications

Ford may have dropped to 3rd but we now have 6 of the top sellers and have got the Explorer back in the #1 position and the Edge being #1 in its class is big for us to.

The Mustang is a gimmie because it has no real competiton we sold 134,626 of them and the closest competitor was the eclipse at 20,154. If you added up the Eclipse, 350Z, Solsitce, and Sebring sales that equals about half the Mustang sales.
Brand Toyota

Car Toyota

Trucks Ford

B-car Yaris

C-Car Corolla

Sports Car Mustang

CD Car Camry

D/E Car Impala

Sports Car Premium Corvette

C/CD Pemium BMW 3 Series

D Premium BMW 5 Series

E/F Premium Cadillac DTS

Small Utility CRV

Crossover Edge

Medium SUV Explorer

Medium Premium SUV Lexus RX

Minivan Caravan

Van Econoline

Compact Pickup Tacoma

Full Size Pickup F-Series

sterlingdog

Bless you! Bless you! I thought that I was dead in the water with "Snake", but now I have a fighting chance. It's so hard to get the last word with him. :P

Could they actually charge this guy with tearing up the lawn if this is his only way out of there?

wesleyg

witness, witness, witness. You're absolutely correct, no witness, no case, both parties offering contradictory statements, therefore no evidence. In these crazy electronic times that now exist, with no witness I'd snap some of those cell phone photos showing the scene with me screaming and waving my arms in anger etc. Only trouble for me is I don't use those contraptions.

As far as your "method" of the transfer of the culprits to the police station, I personally love it. Would I do it, NO, you are now in a "gray" area of capturing a person and restricting their movements against their will, transporting their person to a location or situation not under their control or desire- heavy duty kidnapping implications.

sterlingdog

See post 23949---auto conversion akin to auto theft. I'm not finished with you yet.

sterlingdog

But if they had held you against your will, and you tricked them into letting you drive to the police station, does it still have kidnapping implications?

wesleyg

You're entirely welcome, I fear my door is now open, however.

In the absence of unbiased witnesses, I'll bet any money that dealership would probably press charges and prevail for property damage or even vandalism. Just look at the original event if you doubt they would try that.

sterlingdog

My apologizes. Now I see exactly where you were. I can't believe that they had the nerve to do a follow-up call---unless they were worried that you might take some legal action. Don't we wish attorney fees were minimum wage?

sterlingdog

You're probably right, but I like your idea of the cell phone pictures. The proof is in the pudding.

madmanmoo

My apologizes.

Mhhmm, and my apologizes for where this thread has gone.

I need to tell a story to get us back on track.

-moo

wesleyg

the moment YOU get behing the wheel and driving, they acting as passengers, you are now considered in total control of the situation and further ensuing events ( unless their holding a weapon on you, which is obviously not occuring)

And remember, the reason you're driving to the police station is that you don't have any witness or proof that they did what you claim, so you will not be able to prove your original claim, and THEN, BOY, when you all get to the station those guys are going be hopping up and down screaming abduction!

qbrozen

then complain because you can't drive up and talk into the clowns mouth to make your order "would you like a DVD and spoiler with that Sir"?

LOL!!
great line, Joel!

by the way, is that kitt thing for real? are they making a new knight rider? is it just a TV movie or a new USA series?

qbrozen

Thanks for catching me up, mac.

I can't believe Frank still works there. I mean, here you get chewed out for 1 bad survey in a millenium and this guy can have all bad surveys and still have a job? Ugh!

sterlingdog

I guess it IS like beating a dead horse, but you know how stubborn "Snake" can be. For once I would like to prove to him that there is flexibility in legal matters. It's not his fault. He works with exact numbers and has to have exact answers with proof. :P I bet he is a good accountant.

sterlingdog

I see your point. Once again corporate America wins. :sick:

joel0622

Yes it is the real deal. It will be on NBC

Knight Rider

sterlingdog

Sorry Moo. I'll get back on track by responding to Joel's post on the survey. It is crazy for someone to give a bad survey because they spent about 3 hours at a dealership. Hell, I spent 5 hours at the dealership in October buying my convertible---and my car had arrived from Florida. I had to do the test drive, talk with the salesman, talk with the "rust and dust' guy, get a couple of things adjusted on the convertible, chat briefly with the nice owner of the dealership, etc. As Joel said, it is your second most important purchase. If I'm going to drive my new car for 5 years or more, what is 5 hours in making sure all goes well. If they pushed me out of the door in one hour, that is when I would do a bad survey. In this case, I wrote a nice letter to the owner of the dealership.

Look at poor Mack. He tried to clean up Frank's mess and got a bad survey. I knew that Frank would cause him trouble. A passive aggressive will do you in every time. If he did that to the boss, his [non-permissible content removed] would be fired. What does the boss care as long as the dollars come in to the business?

greanpea68

I really have to doubt the total validity of this story - maybe 30 years ago this could have happened but not in this day and age. Lost keys - maybe - but not the car blacking etc.


I agree with LR... Especialy with the scrutiny that is placed on dealerships today :confuse:

bigdveedubgirl

Talk about an uncomfortable situation.....

I was trying to sell a refferal client a 2005 Touareg and I was sitting at my desk with all the pricing information. And this gentleman had been in the process of buying a car for about a year and had a manilla folder about 3 inches thick filled with all the "research" Also, even though he initally told me he "really wanted to buy from me" he went to our other location 20 mins north (our auto group owns it too) and was dealing with another salesperson there. While in negotiations his phone rang and it was the salesperson from the other store and he took the call on speaker and said "Oh hey Joe, I am sitting here in at PCVW with the salesgirl here. I will be by later after she tells me her best deal" And I knew the poor guy at the other store, and he did not know what to say, so he says "Okay see you later" and then I told him I was not going to go back and forth between him and the other dealer, and told him that if he wanted our car to buy our car, if not buy theirs. (it was one of those risky closing techniques that thank goodness worked) Well he came back later on that night and bought ours. Yay for me!

sterlingdog

I'm not so sure that your fiberglass and plastic cars of today could blow away the old cars of the 50's and 60's. My father had a red and white 1956 Crown Victoria with a V-8. That car sucked up everything on the road. As to safety, it was like a Sherman Tank. I had rather drive it today than anything else on the road.

kyfdx

In my experience, car salespeople don't get out to other dealers, all that much..

I really haven't seen anything new in the way people are treated at dealerships in the last 30 years.. Most are still hard-sell, four-square dealerships, that spend most of their time obfuscating the true price of what they are selling..

As always, there are some good dealerships (less than half), that are easy to deal with, and mostly fair, as long as you are on your toes.. Which, of course, is where I do business..

I'm just one data point, but guessing that I've been in a lot more dealerships over the last five years than your average salesperson.. (Three more, this past Saturday).

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

greanpea68

GP, was it last Wed. that I started paying my debt to Patriots land? If so tomorrow is my last day, correct?


I would have been happy with Monday... One week after the game. You are true gentleman. I have to admit it was fun making a bet 3 months ago on a forum and having play through. I have to admit the pressure is really on for the Pats now. Imagine setting all these records and not winning the Superbowl...

For the record I won my Fantasy Football League this year also. It was the first year I played because I could never make it to a draft because of work. The pot was $300. Nut still a fun time.

Hey Joel what can we bet on next?

GP

greanpea68

I know this is off topic but I like the Griswalds Christmas the best of that series. Can't tell you how many times the family has watched that one.

Have to agre with you there JM... Every Christmas I look forward to watching it.

GP

isellhondas

" I had rather drive it today"

Um, aren't you the English Major?"

isellhondas

I have nothing against people who shop my numbers but the people I lose respect for are the ones who pull every trick in the book.

I lose interest pretty quickly sometimes when people aren't upfront with me.

joel0622

Are you a mystery shopper or something for Edmunds ?

joel0622

I would have been happy with Monday

Works for me