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The last two used cars I bought the salesman just gave me the keys and said "have fun". I think I bought at least partially because I felt good that he trusted me not to mess up his car.
The new cars always had a salesman along. As a school bus driver I had trouble exceeding the speed limit on a test drive. It didn't feel right. The Mitsu salesman finally said "Go ahead, open it up". I did and that's the one I bought. I think maybe it was because he was a younger guy and he was having as much fun as I was that sold me.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think you do. Maybe I'm looking at this to simplistically. I still say until sales are lost...why change? The part of this thats very confusing is that you say all the dealers in your area have wild ADM's and other fees. Since all the dealers are satisfied with their piece of the pie and no one wants to pull away from the pack, this almost sounds like collusion !
Car: $1, dealer fee $15,999. I know it's coming.
Well, maybe not a dollar but insultingly low.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mack :shades:
There are still choices: buy smaller brand/dealer or go outside of Tampa. Some local dealer actually advertise "no dealer fee", but I think it doesn't sink in. Pretty much all but one local Subaru dealers are "good guys" - they do have fees, but their pricing is generally quite good, even after the fees. Those high fee/mop&glo preinstall stores are most visible, also in newspapers. They advertise low prices, but after closer examination of fine print by a trained eye (fee, addl equipment etc.) they often come to be higher than those "family" establishments. Those guys often combine that with another 3 grand "trade discount" (which of course is not a dicount at all) and then print in huge letter that YOU PAY with that insulting low price you mentioned. So next step will be a dollar, I guess. Or maybe $999?
There may not be a collusion, but they all feel like they have to do it, cause people can't read and count. Even Fitzmall in Clearwater has their prices adjusted to fees, as otherwise they'd appear to be more expensive than they really are.
Well, just shows you again that math and reading comprehension should be a mandatory course for entire twelve grades, not just three
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Don't blame the customer for the inflated perception that his car is worth more. Those stupid sites like Edmunds.com and Blue Book are deceiving consumers as much as some car salesmen. It really boils my blood. Here I try to learn and do my research, and these sites lie to you like a mad dog in the noon day sun!
If the consumer listens to these car sites, they end up paying $3k-5k too much. When they go in with their trade, they are thinking that they have $3k-$5k more car than they really have.
Now the salesmen are using something called the Black Book to assess car values. If these other sites are really for customers, then some people in the business need to do something. It not only hurts the consumer; it makes the salesmen's jobs more difficult. The results are putting the customers in the Red Book of Jokes! Only the salesmen are LOL. The rest of us are
From now on, I am going to deduct $3k for the value of my car, and deduct $10k for the car on the lot. My source will be the Gold Book---as in my gold. :mad:
"Used Cars" with Kurt Russell
Do they have Burrittos?
Moo-
When I was typing that I knew it was a little wierd sounding. I did expect someone to say something but it is exactly what happens.
GP
"New York teams are Superior"
"Toyota is the superior import"
:shades:
Sorry gp, but that is not correct. I'll give you a hint; the second line was spoken by R. Williams.
:shades:
The "borrowed" car was probably a lease turn in, a trade in or an actual client car.
Had it been a client car, if it happened in our store, we would probably have put new tires, a new clutch and done an alignment. It does not look like they hopped a curb or smacked the car up. They simply "drove it like they stole it" (literally)
Actually, in our store we once had an incident where the client gave us (the tech) permission to overnight road test the car and the tech got pinched for a DWI. The car got impounded, the tech was fired after it all got sorted out, there was no damage to the car and the client was actually "cool" during the whole situation and did not "go sideways" on the advisor, the manager or the owner. The client still brings their car to us for service, which is nice.
Could you imagine being the service advisor who had to make that call?
I wonder how THAT call went .... :surprise:
those "fees" are nothing more than pocket lining fees and PURE profit for the OWNER of (in this case) the Stealership.
I ran into the same thing when I had to lease a car for my dear mother who resides in Ft Myers Florida.
Florida is horrendous with junk fees .. just ask DESKMAN, he can probably shed more light on how his store
fleecesconvinces clients to pay the fees.One of the ULTIMATE sales movies, if you happen to be in ANY type of sales!
:shades:
Mack
I am on the Left coast. Better yet, how's about an overnight Fed Ex package??
Should be a LOT less than a plane tix!!
Mack
mack...for what it's worth, I'm much more comfortable when the sales person tosses me the keys to the car I'm considering and tells me to to go it alone. I don't mind having a salesperson going along with me. But, I do fine it destracting when I'm trying to evaluate the car. Actually, I find the dealerships that handle the "high line" brands are more willing to let me go it alone than those who represent the "run of the mill" brands.
BENE......Welcome back. Always good to hear from you. Honestly, if you have to spend half your waking life hating what you do, is it worth it?
Speaking of careers, had lunch yesterday with, not so much a friend, but more of a good acquaintance....a sometimes golfing bud. I thought it strange that he called out of the blue and asked me to have lunch with him. But, I truly admire this person. He's been the founder of 3 successful startups in the past. One went IPO and he bowed out (with sacks full of cash). The other two, he sold to other companies (for sacks full of cash).
In the past, he's jokingly asked me to join him at his startups. I'm comfortable in my career and have always respectfully declined. Plus, I was never sure how serious he was about having me join him. We never got that far in our conversations. He's doing another startup. Money guys listen to him since he's been so successful. He doesn't need more money. He's just a serial entrepreneur. It's what he does. He does it very well.
Well, as he was explaining his new venture, it's very cool technology. The need exists. He's well funded (at least for the next 12 months). He's approached me to take over marketing/sales/tech support. I'm seriously considering it.
I can't believe that I may jump from the safety net of what I do now, to jump out on a limb to join him. The rewards would be very substantial if this is successful. But, the risks are even more substantial.
As Mack would say, TO BE CONTINUED....!
The way I look at it, if I were to buy in the SET area, those things you mentioned are the only sure things I am getting. :mad:
I'll pass on the car cause I ain't into that stuff.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Black Book is not something new, they have been around since 1955. We use it along with KBB and NADA.
Since 1955 BLACK BOOK has been the only guidebook to quickly reflect the latest wholesale prices direct from the auction lanes. BLACK BOOK survey personnel are the eyes and ears of BLACK BOOK's editorial staff. As the vehicle passes through the auction lane, the vehicle is properly classified by one of four BLACK BOOK conditions: Extra Clean, Clean, Average, or Rough. The mileage and selling price, along with various equipment and trim levels, are recorded by BLACK BOOK survey personnel and faxed to BLACK BOOK's main office in Gainesville, Georgia.
Once the prices for all of the weekly auctions are added to the BLACK BOOK database, the tough job begins--determining the price to appear in the weekly publication. Determining prices isn't simply adding up all of the sold vehicles and calculating an average. BLACK BOOK editors consider this week's auction values compared to the previous several weeks. They will judge what effect if any, external factors had on prices. What was the weather at the auction? A snowy or rainy day may lower auction attendance and prices. What models were in demand?
Were prices on some models lower because they were over represented at the auction? After weighing these and several other factors, BLACK BOOK will set its weekly wholesale prices.
Once the prices are established, getting them to BLACK BOOK's customers as quickly as possible is the goal. All BLACK BOOK guides are printed in BLACK BOOK's in-house printing plant. Within ten days of an auction close, the prices will be reflected in BLACK BOOK's weekly guide and delivered to your desk.
Tracking used cars in the auction lane isn't the only thing BLACK BOOK does. BLACK BOOK editorial staff follows vehicles from the moment they leave the assembly line until they are ready for the junkyard. In part this is done because BLACK BOOK offers new car pricing guides and residual value projections.
There was a local dealer back in the 80's who didn't want to play with them. Back then shady leasing schemes and monopolized accessory add-on schemes were the bread and butter for SET. This guy was at one time the North American Toyota sales king. He had big enough quijones and deep enough pockets to take on SET. Things got better for a while after that. Now it sounds like SET has just figured out new ways to play their old games.
That’s the way Son # 1 looked at it a year ago. He up and quits a darn good job (where he hadn’t even worked a year) with nothing in his hand even though he has a wife and three young sons. The youngest, not even a year old at the time. He just got tired of getting home in time to towel them off and help put them to bed. Sometimes he didn’t even get home in time to do that.
For the few weeks he was looking for a job, Mrs. jmonroe blamed me because I said, more than a couple of times, while this was going on, “that’s a bunch of BS, you better wake up”.
Well, he did even better for himself and his family. He’s at a small startup company that he figures will go IPO within a few. His boss is also one of those entrepreneurs that has a very good track record at this.
TO BE CONTINUED....!
Yes, if you don’t mind keep us posted. I see a BIG boat in your future.
Since you’re going into the car biz it’s legit to post here, right? :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes, you can also subscribe through Dealer Track if your F&I office uses that.
Black Book has been the go to book in my trade market for ever.
It has only been the last few years we have even considered KBB or NADA in our evaluation process. We also use the auction web site to see what a particular car has been bringing on the block in our area.
We consider KBB because it has become the #1 consumer source nd NADA because that is what banks lend off of, and when it gets right down to it in most cases a car is only worth what a bank will lend on it.
Thats why books and online sources are so skewed on high mileage stuff. If you can't get a loan on it how do you sell it in a business where 70% of your business is financed. That 70% figure is taking into account the people who say they are cash buyers but actually get there own loan.
black book
In all honesty, nothing was discussed for that last drive. They didn't even question me when I got back. I actually was expecting a call on my cell asking where the heck I was with their car! Nada. I guess they figured I was really serious about it and not just a joyrider. I had emailed them about that/this very car the week prior.
That's one thing I like about the high end dealerships here (Germans, anyway), they'll throw you some keys and send you on your way (by yourself) in a heartbeat!
The worst thing for the industry is edmnds/cr/autobytel info. everyone should pay msrp on camcords and msrp + on cars in short supply and high demand.
why should the guy buying a new 600sl pay msrp and the guy buying a camcord get a 300 under invoice deal?
Moo do you have a lighter? :shades:
A local dealer runs screamer ads with this quite often. I'm still trying to figure out how many people really believe that their $3500 trade or cash means the purchase price of the new car really is only $9988, not $20,000 like all the other guys.
I guess it works to some extent or they wouldn't keep running the ads, but it just makes me laugh.
The Honda Ody people are revolting as well... and they're filing a class action suit too.
Transmissions seem to be the achilles heel of most manufacturing lines of automobile. So much so that I'm thinking of opening my own 3rd party warranty business that provides a dependable and inexpensive warranty solely for the transmission! If interested in investing in my business, send me $10,000 cash, $1,000 of which will go to Tidester to turn a blind eye.
I'll just have to stick with my Gold Book.
Not only will I get the best deal around, I'll get free Mop & Glow, free Rust & Dust, free service for the life of the car, free loaners, and a chance to s----all of their wifes like I have been s------ all of these years.
WAIT! It won't work. I just remembered that last August I had a written contract---remember? Even my attorney said that the agreement couldn't be honored. :sick:
Well, the only thing to do is to bend over and take it like a man! :mad:
Mack
-moo
:P
-moo
I've been out of school for 5 years now, and so my skills are a bit rusty. I bought myself some books and I am going to reteach myself all the programs and such to get myself back on track. Unfortunately, getting a job with a firm is out of the question, and besides, im not one to be part of a "firm" anyways...i'd much rather freelance, and call my own shots, and make my own success. It might take a while, but if I don't do it now, when will i?
And I agree with others...sounds like your friend is pretty successful at this startup thing...i'd say give it a go with him!!
-thene
That is NOT exactly true. You can purchase the monthly printed Black Book for $77/year. I have a copy of January's guide sitting here on my desk.
We use NADA but we pull auction results for a TRUE value when appraising cars.
A lot of cars that "book" for, say, 10,000 are bringing 7-8000 at the auctions. No dealer is going to pay "book" values for a car he can go to the auction and pick up for thousands of dollars less.
Right now, the gas hogs are REALLY suffering.
Mack
not trying to give you any career advice, but if it works out, maybe your old school will be known as the 'Cradle of Entrepreneurs'.
I learned that right here!
In fact, at one time their main corporate offices were in the little town I grew up (?) in. San Pedro.
And San Pedro is pronounced San Pee- dro.
Never San Pay - dro.
Regarding SET trick bag and whether it's "good business" or not. The problem is people doing that only see sales they got - never those they lost - especially from people like me, who would probably even not show up at their place. It's not likely I would buy a Toyota on merit ground (on every segment I can think of three other cars I would rather buy), but I see their appeal to other people. Part of that appeal is competitive pricing and content. Adding that crap simply defeats the purpose.
It's only sad people don't exactly understand the "total cost" concept. They get duped into thinking they paid 18 grand for the Camry, but their real cost was 20 or more (as those add-ons bring literally zero value), not even incling taxes and government mandated fees. It seems to be too hard to add three or four numbers and then remember the total. :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe