Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dino001

Kelley is probably more South than West. It's quoted here everywhere as reference for their fantastic prices or super allowances. Also, Carmax uses them as reference (starting) points for their high prices.

sterlingdog

Yes, I think that the Monkeys came out with that tune in the late '60's---NADA,NADA,NADA. :shades:

afob3

I found this page on my credit union's website last time I was checking the value of my car. It lists KBB, NADA, and Black Book. IIRC Black Book came out the lowest of the three. The three were far enough appart that I was able to think of them as a a guide instead of a price set in stone.

After all every car's condition & maintenenance will be different.

TVA Credit Union

stevenq99

great link! Not what I wanted to see for value on my trade in.

gogiboy

"Yes, I think that the Monkeys came out with that tune in the late '60's---NADA,NADA,NADA."

Richard--

What about (radiator) Steam's Nada Hey Hey, Kiss Him Goodbye.? Also late 60s.

Oh, and it's "Monkees", which shows both my age and limited taste. Remember the Monkeemobile? Now there was a CAR!

Gogiboy

benzserviceguy

The UCM and SM use Manheim auction values when they 'attempt" to put a value on a trade in.

That or they call the wholesale "guy" and ask him what he would pay.

benzserviceguy

Hey, it's near the port and therefore the ocean. It's closer to the border than the "city" of LA and this is Southern California... most natives I know say
San Pay - dro

Like PEDRO - the guy who is a horticultural specialist & engineer

mackabee

Not! It's pronunced Pedro as in Pa dro, no y sound. You gringos put a y sound to every spanish word that has an e on it.
Mack

mackabee

It was Na-na-na-na and Na-na-na-na Hey, hey, goodbye.
I grew up listening to those tunes.
Mack

tidester

A few messages were removed because they were becoming a little too intense - in case you're wondering where the missing items went. Now all concerned can hug and make up.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

lemko

Selling a car privately also has its drawbacks unless you're selling it to somebody you know. I live in Philadelphia and selling a car privately could draw all kinds of scary undesirables to your house. Could you imagine letting some thuggish character check out your ride and then take it from you while waving a Glock at you? Worse yet, these thugs and their pals know where you live should you snitch on the car thief.

Then again, you could sell your car to somebody you know and have them approach you and tell you what a POS you sold them despite the fact they abused and neglected your once-pristine vehicle?

ddelise

I live in Tampa too.

In November 2005, I was in the market for a new mini-van. The 2005 Siennas were on the dealer lots, and the redesigned Odyssey was just coming out.

I was immediately turned off by the Honda dealer ADM on the mini-van, so that put me into the Sienna. With SET, the $37.8k MSRP Sienna was being discounted to $35.5k, plus $700 Toyo + $600 dealer fees = $36.8k plus tax, tag, title.

I coincidentally was going to Washington, DC for Thanksgiving. I heard about FitzMall, went to their site, found the same $37.8k MSRP Sienna being sold for $33.5k + $99 dealer fee. Total $33.6k plus tax, tag, title.

So, I made arrangements ahead of time via email to put down a down payment, paid for it the second day upon my arrival, and drove it home at the end of the trip.

So, 3 emails and a pleasant purchasing experience later, I saved $3200. Granted, I did need to spend 12 hours driving it home, but it was well worth it.

Damon

madmanmoo

I wasn't involved this time. Three cheers for me.

What did I miss though? :surprise:

-moo

isellhondas

No Victor, even the spanish speaking natives don't call it San Pay - dro. It's Pee - dro.

And when in San Francisco, the WORST thing a person can do is call it "Frisco". You will be immediatly corrected. It's always SAN FRANCISCO or "The City".

jescue

Moo, would your store sell us that XKR coupe? I have a possible buyer if the price is right.

madmanmoo

Already sold, Jescue. I think the vehicle went for $74,900 +++ . Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that was the price. I believe that vehicle has just found a home in Poland.

-moo

jescue

That figures-good for you, bad for me.

madmanmoo

That was a beautiful vehicle. My used car manager enjoyed driving around in that vehicle for a couple of days.

dino001

But you see? The SET Toyota was being offered to you "at discount", wasn't it? :sick: The $1300 dealer "supercharge overcharge" was not the price. It was, well, you know...

Now imagine how poor Scion customers are being fleeced. They have no way to opt out, the pricing is full sticker (their nominal gross margins are half the size of normal cars), but after SET and dealer fee magic, the margin goes up nicely. It really makes me sick to think how bad things are here. And Tampa might even not be the worst. I hear stories of FL East Coast dealer being even worse - not verified in person, though.

oldfarmer50

"...My used car manager enjoyed driving around in beating the hell out of that vehicle for a couple of days..." :P

jmonroe

I coincidentally was going to Washington, DC for Thanksgiving.

Granted, I did need to spend 12 hours driving it home, but it was well worth it.

Not to sound too technical here but since you were in D.C. anyway, you had to drive something home, so why not a new machine.

Now for a real technical question to the car biz guys or anyone else who wants to chime in.

I’ve always heard it’s not good for a new engine/transmission to be held at interstate speeds for sustained periods. Since I’m a technical wizard I can almost reason this out to be true at least for the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s era engines but not so sure about these new things. I can’t remember if my owner’s manual said this or not. Since it’s not handy right now I can’t look and before I forget about this, I’ll ask now:

“Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of this or is this just a carry over “old wives tale” from the previous car generation engines/transmissions”? :confuse:

jmonroe

madmanmoo

For new Porsches, they recommend not going over a specific RPM for the first couple thousand miles. I'm not sure if that applies to what you're talking about.

-moo

ddelise

I flew up to DC with the wife 3 year old, 9 month old twins, and in-laws. :sick:

I drove back to Tampa (via Atlanta) with my sister-in-law's boy friend.

Nothing is very easy in my family. :confuse:

I did read the manual re: keeping the same RPMs for a long period of time, and I don't remember seeing anything there. But I did make sure to change the speed often.

Damon

oldfarmer50

"...heard it's not good for a new engine/transmission to be held a interstate speeds for sustained periods..."

My owner's manual says to avoid revving the engine ( whatever that means). it also says to avoid fast starts, sudden acceleration, PROLONGED HIGH-SPEED DRIVING and sudden braking.

The problem I have is there is no definition of these terms. For example, my dealer traded car was driven 165 miles from Yonkers NY before I got it. I doubt they took the side roads all the way so it must have been run at at least 65 mph all the way. I sure hope this doesn't violate the cautions in the owner's manual. Is 65 considered high speed?

joel0622

I sure hope this doesn't violate the cautions in the owner's manual. Is 65 considered high speed?

I don't think you have anything to worry about

dino001

It's definitely in my manual.

The idea about it is that engine-transmission-drive (i.e. all moving parts) should be "accustomed" to each other at different settings, i.e. both engine and vehicle speeds, rather than just one (first gear 3k rpm is diffrent than third gear 3k rpm, which is also than 3k at 5th gear). Different speeds introduce different stress levels on the parts, resulting in different contact sufaces, thus the initial wear is evened out. With constant speed there is potential for wear to occur at subset of those areas only, which you can imagine being not so great for longevity.

jmonroe

But I did make sure to change the speed often.

That’s the part I remember hearing that was important, so you’re probably alright. However, since I don’t really know you very well maybe I shouldn’t say that yet.

Being the conservative guy I am, I did my first oil/filter change on my last two new purchases at 1000 miles and I mean I did them not those quicky places or the dealer. I figure you’re just about there.

After that I do the 3000 mile interval thing but that’s just me and a few other weirdos that hang out here.

jmonroe

lrguy44

My Harley needed a 500 mile breakin, but cars in most cases no longer do. I still vary speeds for the first 500 - but then I am old

jmonroe

- but then I am old

I prefer to say "experienced".

jmonroe

jipster

avoid revving the engine ( whatever that means). it also says to avoid fast starts, sudden acceleration, PROLONGED HIGH-SPEED DRIVING and sudden

One reason to avoid rentals. In most cases you're probably looking at a 75mph average for a thousand mile highway trip.

greanpea68

WHen ever I have a new car customer take delivery the last things I go over with them is the check "engine light"....

If the check engine light comes on 99 out of 100 times it will be the gas cap. Make sure the engine is shut off when filling the gas. Because if it is not the engine will notice that fuel tank is not pressurised and set off the check engine light. Or if you put the gas acp on crooked and it is not a tight seal than you will loose fuel vapors and the "check engine " light will come again because it thinks that fuel system is not fully pressurised.

Last thing I tell them is the break in period...

Drive the vehicle at various speeds for the first 1000 miles to break the engine in at differnt speeds so the whole engine breaks in. Do not use the cruise control for the first 1000 miles.

I always get response" I thought I wasn't suppossed to go over 55 MPH"

I than explain that was the old school way...

Just my 2 cents for the day to get my signature in.

A lot of interesting stuff going on with A MAD One though....

I have chosen to ( or asked ) to leave him alone.

GP

"New York teams are superior"

"Toyota is the superior import"

2 1/2 days left in the "toilet bowl championship" detention center

low9s

Hello all! This is my first post here on Edmunds. I am an ISM at a GM dealer and I recently started reading some of the forums here. It looked so fun that I thought I would join the party. I look forward to participating in discussions and sharing any knowledge I have that can help make someone's trip to the dealership that much easier!

joel0622

I am an ISM at a GM dealer

Is an ISM a Internet Sales Manager?

Welcome to Edmunds!!!!!

mikefm58

I coincidentally was going to Washington, DC for Thanksgiving. I heard about FitzMall, went to their site, found the same $37.8k MSRP Sienna being sold for $33.5k + $99 dealer fee. Total $33.6k plus tax, tag, title.

I've considered doing the same thing with a Tacoma Prerunner base cab, but unfortunately, that vehicle is NOT available in all areas of the country. It's available here in Florida, which we know is SET, but it's not available in Wash DC, Fitzmall can't get one, and it's not available where I'm originally from, upstate NY.

Just curious, did you try negotiating with the dealers in Tampa to see how close they could get to the Fitzmall price? I have bought other Toyotas and was able to negotiate out the SET fee and Toyogaurd. I got close to invoice plus TTL, then minus any rebates. I guess it depends on the vehicle.

greanpea68

Welcome...

What's up Low?

Gp

"New york teams are superior"

"toyota is the superior import"

greanpea68

Is an ISM a Internet Sales Manager?

Thats what I figured Joel

GP

"New York teams are superior"

"Toyota is the superior import"

And just for Joel...

"FOrd is the superior domestic"

madmanmoo

As a trial by fire, you must go over to the Internet vs Traditional Car Buying thread and answer all of Amad1's questions with truth and dignity. EVERYONE of them. When you've past that test, then you can post all you want here.



Just kidding, welcome aboard!

-moo

low9s

Yes it is. I didn't coin the term, but I have read it in other posts before so I figured it was widely used. Thanks for the welcome though!.

I can't help but notice the large gap between the salespeople and shoppers on this forum though. Does it ever end? As someone who is relatively new to the car business(less than five years) and in my mid twenties, I am still trying to find out why so many people make buying a vehicle so hard on themselves.

low9s

Thanks for the warm welcome from all of you. Moo, I feel like I am in a constant state of answering all of Amad1's questions. I think he kind of proves my point about how so many people make it hard on themselves to purchase vehicles through the internet.

I feel bad for that poor guy from the Infiniti dealership who sent him that nice(and clever) email asking what he could do to earn his business. From the little I have read from him, Amad1 seems to be a typical customer trying to pick a fight with people who are trying to help him.

lrguy44

Welcome aboard. I think amad's problems and anger go way beyond the car biz.

greanpea68

I feel bad for that poor guy from the Infiniti dealership who sent him that nice(and clever) email asking what he could do to earn his business. From the little I have read from him, Amad1 seems to be a typical customer trying to pick a fight with people who are trying to help him.

My sentiments exactly...

GP

"New york teams are superior"

"Toyota is the superior import"

low9s

It's amazing what people will do to try to save $50 on a $30,000+ vehicle...

oldfarmer50

"...It's amazing what people will do to try to save $50 on a $30,000 vehicle..."

I think most people are trying to save $29,000 on a $30,000 vehicle and end up only saving $50.

laurasdada

It's amazing what salespeople will do to try to take an extra $50 from a client on a $30,000+ vehicle...

Car shopping is easy. Just go to the dealer, read the MSRP from the Monroney and offer to pay it. Then, a little Mop/Glo, Rust/Dust, Extended Warranty, pinstriping, landau roof, fabric sealant and you're off! Simple! :shades:

dino001

It's amazing what people would try to make extra $500 - or thousands if allowed. Some are even very proud of it. Just ask Deskman - he said so many times.

A lot of people argue about $50 cause they really don't know where the bottom is - when they hit $50 resistance that's their way of knowing.

This coin has two sides....

ddelise

I tried really hard to get near the Fitzmall price. I knew it was a lost cause when for a few days I turned to used 2004's with 10k miles, and the dealers were asking more than I could get the new 2005 for. And by asking, I mean they would not go any lower.

I spent 15 minutes with a salesperson explaining why it did not make sense for me to pay $34k for a used 2004, so I offered him $31k. He went to the Sales Manager office down the hall, and I heard him scream - "What the eff kind of an offer is that! Don't even waste your time anymore!".

The salesperson came in, I thanked him for his time, and off to Fitzmall I went.

Damon

manamal

Here is the thing, If I move, I am going from the all weather eastern US (Virignia) to the tropics (Hawaii). Suddenly, a convertible looks tempting. Now, based on internet pricing on the car I am looking at (VW Eos), the car will cost about $1500 more in HI than in VA. My new employer would ship the car to HI, so that is not an issue, but it would be on a boat, and would take a non-trivial amount of time.

$1500 is a lot of money. I figure, I could call the dealer in Hawaii and explain the issue. See if they could come closer the matching the price. (I would have no problem with a $500-$800 difference). Or, should I just attribute it to the cost of living in paradise? Or save the $$$$ and buy here?

What would you salesmen do if someone called in about a car in this circumstance?

oldfarmer50

"...and off to Fitzmall I went..."

I contacted Fitzmall's Mitsubishi store recently because they were offering some pretty good prices on the car I was considering. The salesman told me that the cars on their web site were aged units that they were "whoring out". If I wanted one with specific options or colors not on the site it would cost more. When he finished adding in some junk fees the cost was only about $150 less than TMV. Not worth a 10 hour one-way drive for me.

My local guy beat Fitzmall's price even after I paid $178 too much due to the brainwashing I've received from the sales guys on this forum.

By the way, I'm still waiting for my check. :P

isellhondas

In reality it probably makes so little difference it isn't worth even thinking about.

I've owned two Ex Hertz cars and they were just fine.

mikefm58

typical customer trying to pick a fight

Be careful with your choice of words here. Most of the consumers that frequent here tend to be more edcuated on buying cars than what YOU might call a typical consumer. We won't drive to another state to save $100 over the local dealer. We prefer to give the local dealer the first chance to earn our business. And we won't screw over the sales person who has spent time with us on test drives and answering questions when we really were "just looking".