Stories from the Sales Frontlines

dino001

I graduated and taught civil/structural (1994 Poland and 2001 Grad school in US). All our engineering classes allowed for calculators. So really different schools of thought I guess...

jipster

Nothing has changed since those days. Compression testing remains the same. Obviously "that" mechanic was pulling a leg or two.

Maybe. I didn't know enough about cars to know the difference. Perhaps he thought he could bluff me into accepting his "explaination", as doing a correct compression test would take a lot of his time.

I doubt though he would have suggested I talk to the manager though if he were "pulling my leg". Also, once I called his bluff, by saying I wouldn't pay, you would think he would backtrack and do the test. Maybe, it is you who is pulling a leg or two??? :surprise:

jmonroe

When taking important exams back in engineering school, some of us geeks would bring in a "back-up" calculator (or a 2nd set of batteries) just in case our calculator died.

Calculators? :confuse: Extra batteries? :confuse:

I remember all I had to do was put a little talcum powder on the bamboo slide rule and it was good to go for the whole semester. Even worked when I got the aluminum K & E beauty my second year.

And all this time you thought it was for 'baby bottoms' and playing pool.

jmonroe

obyone

Haha!! If that mechanic had the use of the "force" he would not have had to crawl under the car. Other than that a quick email to 0patience or shifty will verify my statement.

Oh and please be sure to include that "splicing of wires" as it should make their day to read it.

obyone

Bamboo? At least mine was made of PVC. :shades:

peetert

Nice! It's practically a new car with those miles.

Best of luck with it. We're still looking, or should I say trying to figure out what to get.

Peeter

british_rover

Oh I have some nasty depreciation stories...

2005 Range rover was around 75,000-80,000 new depending on options. At the end of the year someone might have paid 69,000 for one if it was a demo.

A year ago a customer of mine pays 55,000 for a 2005 Range Rover with 12,000 miles on it at another dealer because I didn't have the color combination he wanted. He overpaid by a few thousand too.

Now he put 24,000 miles on the car in one year and it is worth 31,000 tops wholesale. In three years that car has lost between 45,000 and 38,000 which fits right into my, "Range Rovers lose 15,000-12,000 dollars a year or about a dollar a mile over the first 3 to 4 years.," experience.

Now I have a buddy of a buddy who wants me to help him negotiate a deal on a 2002 Range Rover Westminster even after I told him all the potential problems those vehicles have. A Westminster in 2002 was a 75,000 dollar vehicle and commanded a 7,000 dollar premium over the standard Range Rover HSE.

Six years later this random used car dealer is asking 18,900 for a 75,000 mile Westminster down in Joisey no less. :sick: Yeah that is only about 9,000 dollars over Galves what a rip off. I call this guy up to try and talk some sense into him so this buddy can buy the Range Rover for 12,000 to 13,000 and then lose his shirt on the maintenance. The guy is stuck on 15,500 and won't budge.

The guy won't hear any of it because Westminsters are worth 4,000 to 5,000 dollars more then regular Range Rovers. :surprise: Really news to me and I have sold several 2002 Westminsters. They aren't worth anything more then a regular 2002 Range Rover and if you are actually paying more for one then you are getting screwed.

So I get the guy talking about other stuff waiting for him to make a mistake. He mentions that he just bought a 2003 Range Rover with 50,000 miles for 18,000. Its so cheap it is almost like stealing he says and they are great sellers down here.

If you just paid 18,000 for a 50,000 mile 2003 then how do you expect me to believe you paid over 10,000 dollars for a 75,000 mile 2002?

Westminsters are worth more then regular HSEs blah blabh blahb :confuse: :sick:

He goes down to 15,000 and says not a penny more no more blah blah.

Man I hate sleazy used car dealers in Joisey.

Gonna call my guy up and tell him to switch to another car as this one has too many miles and the dealer is a moron.

british_rover

There was either some miss communication some where or he was screwing with you and/or being lazy.



I circled the top of the plug wire of this 929 engine. That is a very easy engine to do a compression test on as there is plenty of room to pull the spark plug out on either cylinder bank unlike a 626 or some other FWD V6 car where the rear cylinder bank might be inaccessible.

kasmal

I'm a long time lurker who had to pop in and post now that I've bought a car, just to say that it's amazing to compare dealers. Some are gameplayers while others are straightforward and a pleasure to deal with. It's just weird that the game players seem surprised when they lose a sale to the others.

I bought a Saturn which should be straightforward, especially since I have a supplier discount. But dealer A insisted that despite GM's suggested cap of $75 for the doc fee, they would not waive it so I would have to pay over $400. They also gave an insulting offer on my trade-in and wanted me to pay for almost $1000 in pin stripes and tint. I had my check in hand so they knew I was serious, but the most they would budge is half price for the mop & glo and half of the doc fee. However, their "supplier" price came out only $100 less when it should have been closer to $1000. We walked.

I went to CarMax who offered what I had calculated my trade was worth (and $2000 more than Dealer A), so I just sold it to them. I know they underpay, so that means Dealer A was even more low than I thought.

Contacted Dealer B on the advice of a friend; they immediately emailed me confirmation that they honor the dealer fee cap and went to work to find a vehicle without all the options. They located one, and meanwhile Dealer A calls and tries to convince us to return to them rather than going with Dealer B. They said they would match Dealer B, but why do they think I would go back to a place that was trying to shaft me before? And why shaft me in the first place instead of just offering what I asked for and making the sale right then and there? It's not like I was being unreasonable. I only wanted the GM mandated doc fee, the correct supplier discount, and a car not loaded down with useless stuff (I would have just sold with the trade on my own).

Okay, enough venting! At least I love my new car.

greanpea68

Now that was a cool trick BR..... :shades:

I have to start taking classes so I can stay up to speed with picture posting and what not.

But to be able to circle something on a pic and post it.... That takes the cake.

Gp

just sitting in the back of the class with the rest of dummies

british_rover

Well some people wouldn't know a spark plug wire from a lug nut so I had to call attention to it.

If you want to do that just open the photo you want to modify in MS Paint as every computer in the world has it installed. Draw on the photo save as and then upload it to carspace or a photo bucket account.

You could be all fancy and use photoshop but I don't have photoshop.

cotmc

BR: I was simply impressed that you found a picture of a 929 engine! :surprise:

jipster

There was either some miss communication some where or he was screwing with you and/or being lazy.

I don't recall the engine looking like that, but it has been about a decade. The owner of the car was against whatever needed to be done to do the compression test. The mechanic said he couldn't do it without the owners consent. That much I am sure. If there was miscommunication it had to be over the reason why they couldn't do it, which I understood to be splicing or wires of some sort.

If I were to be suspecious of anyone, it would have to be the seller. He spoke of Arabs trying to "Jew" him down on the price of the car a week earlier... and he threw them out. Then there was the secrecy over not telling me how he fixed the power window. Perhaps the owner knew something was wrong with the engine. So, he came up with a bogus excuse why the mechanic could not do a proper test. Anyhow, I was always glad I didn't buy that car... just didn't feel right.

movinmetal1

"I love my new car" Man, that is the very definition of a 'good deal', and that is where many dealers miss the boat. Because empathy is so quickly beaten out of new sales reps, the opportunity to make a human connection is lost right away, and the buyer can actually feel the lack of real interest.

The process is so opaque, so (seemingly) closed, that buyers feel like they are being lied to and taken advantage of even when they aren't.

I think it is a real tragedy when the communication and trust is so poor that a buyer will feel cheated even when they have made a real good deal. Instead of enjoying what is always a landmark event in the life of any family or individual, it is remembered with anger and frustration.

Congratulations!

explorerx4

while i am reading this thread, the phone rings. my wife answers and politely ends the conversation. then she says to me, 'why is virginia tech calling you?'
is this a 'funny' on your part? :surprise:

british_rover

The 929 was the last RWD Mazda sedan sold in this country and while not a bad car it wasn't a very good car either. Probably a good thing you passed on it as I think getting parts for them was hard later on.

BR: I was simply impressed that you found a picture of a 929 engine!

I have a nearly photographic memory when it comes to cars.

british_rover

Nope not me. I don't know if I could even find your phone number without some serious difficulty. Wrong number maybe?

jmonroe

I circled the top of the plug wire of this 929 engine. That is a very easy engine to do a compression test on as there is plenty of room to pull the spark plug out on either cylinder bank unlike a 626 or some other FWD V6 car where the rear cylinder bank might be inaccessible.

This is very coincidental that we’re taking spark plugs.

That Mazda 929 is a piece of cake compared to what I just saw this past weekend.

Just last Friday Son #1 decides to change spark plugs on his 03’ Altima V6. He takes a look and says to himself this is going to be a real project compared to other cars I’ve had. He goes online to a site that he’s used in the past when he wanted info on some maintenance. He says the guy is so through that he has pictures with arrows and “click here to enlarge photo” and stuff like that. Real first class. He says it’s better than a lot of manuals he’s seen. Anyway, it says you HAVE to remove the intake manifold to get access to the plugs at the rear of the engine (up against the firewall) and photos show where all the bolts are. He’s stubborn, just like his mother, and decides to give it a try.

He goes to the auto parts to get new double Platinum plugs then to the dealer to get a new intake manifold gasket and some other dealer only stuff. While he’s there he talked to one of the service writers and asked how much they charge for a spark plug change on his V6, the answer, at least $300 but not more than $350 (greenpea, if you’re reading this and you don’t mind my asking, “what does your store charge for this”?).

He said he was glad he did it, just to prove to himself that he could. Now that sounds like me talking when I was his age.

Now that he’s an expert he wants to see what my 05’ Hyundai XG350 V6 looks like. So he pops the hood takes off the plastic trim piece and says, “you’ll have to remove the intake manifold too, to get at the rear ones, but yours looks easier to do than mine”. If looking doesn’t fool you, I saw what his looked like and I think he’s right.

But since he’s now an expert I’ll let him do it, if/when the time comes. I’m tired of proving things like that to myself. Plus, he owes me, a lot.

BTW, I thought Platinum plugs were supposed to last at least 80K miles. His Altima has 62K and he said the gap when new is 0.040 and before he changed his they were 0.061, that’s why he decided to change them. He said he can definitely tell the difference and I can believe that with a 50% change.

jmonroe

explorerx4

probably the wrong number. i have another good wrong number story. sorry nothing to do with car sales, but give me a little break?
i'm sitting at work and the phone rings. i give the usual, 'company name, my name, can i help you?' other person, um, i'm looking for 'whatever person'. ok, wrong number. i bring up the phone list. got a name close and say 'do you mean xyz'?
the person on the other end of the line says 'what did you say your name is?'. i say my name again. they say 'did you go to xyz high school?' i say 'who are you?' they say this is dave s...'. this is someone i hung out with 25 years earlier, but was pretty much out of touch with, for many years.
turns out they transposed a couple of numbers while dialing the phone number! :surprise:

british_rover

Oh yeah lots of FWD DOHC V6 cars are like that. Since the spark plugs are in the center of the head and the heads are so wide the intake manifold usually covers them. Also many of those cars have variable length intake manifolds which makes it even more complicated.

My moms old maxima has the older generation engine that is in your sons altima and I did the spark plugs on that car a couple of times. No fun at all and a real PITA.

stickguy

nice deal. You should still be under warranty for a bit too, just in case their is a little hidden surprise! Plus, you should be able to get the history (at least warranty) on anything done so far.

Heck, for that, I would have been tempted. Cheaper than the 2004 BMW X3s I dabbled in a few months back.

Although I doubt it will get as good mileage as my Accord!

mackabee

"Hopefully you will find dome burrito shop that has wi-fi and say hello. "

I got back from the war zone today. Pheew! I'm still tired from the flight. I see there's a lot of posts to read which including this thread I have about three hundred counting the other threads I keep a watch on. Tell you about my trip tomorrow. I found an EXCELLENT taco place. Similar to my favorite burrito place but they sell only tacos made with fresh off the stove corn tortillas and you choose the stuffing. Roasted chicken, beef, fajitas, etc.. Then they give you your taco and you get to put the rest of the stuff you want like lettuce, tomatoes, onions, different types of hot sauce, etc,etc, Wish we had some of those here.
Culater.
Mack
:shades:

obyone

If you're removing the intake to get to the plugs you may as well change the valve cover gaskets at the same time. At the mileage that the plugs need changing I'd bet either sooner or little later those valve cover gaskets going to start leaking. Course YMMV.

I was at a friend's shop watching one of his mechanics replace the intake and had asked him "spark plugs?" He said that was two months ago. This time it was for valve cover gaskets....ooooo the labor.......

oldfarmer50

"...He spoke of Arabs trying to "Jew" him down...just didn't feel right..."

Gee, and he sounds like such a nice fellow too.

oldfarmer50

"...at least $300 but not more than $350..."

Boy, I got a bargain. Had to have the same deal done with my Chrysler and it only cost me $200 (including new plugs). Guess I owe my mechanic a six-pack.

british_rover

which chrysler? Some of them are set up where you don't have to take the intake manifold off to get the rear spark plugs so it saves about an hours worth of labor.

greanpea68

If you want to do that just open the photo you want to modify in MS Paint as every computer in the world has it installed. Draw on the photo save as and then upload it to carspace or a photo bucket account.
:confuse: :sick:

I appreciate the response.

Yeah I definately need some hand holding here. I'll stick to what I know. I am luck enough to know how to get here

GP

greanpea68

Nope not me. I don't know if I could even find your phone number without some serious difficulty. Wrong number maybe?


I was like what is explorex talking about, I didn't get that one either. But now after seeing your post here it is all coming together. I am glad I am not loosing my mind today.

GP

greanpea68

(greenpea, if you’re reading this and you don’t mind my asking, “what does your store charge for this”?).

We charge $239.95 plus 5%tax of course.

That includes platinum spark plugs and labor for a 6 cyl. 2003 Altima. :shades:

BTW, I thought Platinum plugs were supposed to last at least 80K miles. His Altima has 62K and he said the gap when new is 0.040 and before he changed his they were 0.061, that’s why he decided to change them. He said he can definitely tell the difference and I can believe that with a 50% change.


Well how do you argue with a monroe you don't

I tell every customer the first tune up is at 105 miles or 7 years.

If little Monroe says he feels a difference who am I to agrue. But first scheduled maitanace is the 105k miles.

GP

greanpea68

Similar to my favorite burrito place but they sell only tacos made with fresh off the stove corn tortillas and you choose the stuffing. Roasted chicken, beef, fajitas, etc.. Then they give you your taco and you get to put the rest of the stuff you want like lettuce, tomatoes, onions, different types of hot sauce, etc,etc, Wish we had some of those here.
Culater.
Mack

Hey Gordo you are making me hungry!

GP

jmonroe

We charge $239.95 plus 5%tax of course.

Thanks for the response. I knew I could count on you.

I’m going to tell him to come to your place. That sure beats the $300/350 he was quoted and he’ll even save on the tax. It’s 7% where he would have taken it although he lives in a 6% county.

Maybe they were trying to make him feel good about doing it himself. Then again, they probably quoted what they did, so if he screwed it up and it had to come in on a hook, they were at least half way to covering themselves.

Well how do you argue with a monroe you don't.

If little Monroe says he feels a difference who am I to agrue. But first scheduled maitanace is the 105k miles.

If he ever comes in for service, the two of you can discuss this at length. Just remember he was trained by his mother and I know you know what that means. Heck, she might even come along for the ride.

FWIW, you don’t have to worry about losing your mind today. I’ve never heard of anyone losing something they’ve already lost. :shades:

Thanks again,

jmonroe

qbrozen

Now, since this was for the wife, I want to know if she was there for the negotiations, and if so, how did you keep her under control all those times that you headed for the door?

She was there. So was our 2-year-old. She was preoccupied watching him most of the time, but I think having them there really sped it up because he was getting cranky and she wanted to take him home. So maybe more credit should go to my son?

qbrozen

Also, it's amazing how much some of the premium cars can depreciate within their first years of ownership. This XC90 had an originally sticker price of, what?, maybe $40K? Unless it was sold late in the model year with additional incentives, I'm guessing the original buyer paid at least $37K for it. 23K miles later this was likely traded in for less than $21K?? :surprise:

Found the original window sticker in the glovebox. Sticker was $41,370. It was purchased in December of '04, so yeah, probably not much of a discount on an '05 model.

This is why I support leasing.

sterlingdog

Since you are a miser that I do respect :shades: , let me ask your opinion about something. I replaced all of the fluids in my Explorer XLT---transmission and new filter, coolant, power steering, etc. and had a tune up with new plugs and wires. This also included new rear brake pads. The bill was $781.00 including tax. Was this a rip off or a pretty good price? The local dealership did the work. You other guys can chime in as well.

Richard

obyone

That's about right considering it was done by a dealership.

Other than that I'd say you paid about $400 more than I would've.

You need to remember though, I know how to do a compression test.

gogiboy

"Well, gas prices went up and my sister was tired of spending $75 for a tank of gas, so they bailed out of the Yukon and leased a Honda Pilot."

While I was waiting to pay for my sub I overheard the clerks talking about marital woes. The young female clerk was complaining about her deadbeat (divorced) husband and his lack of child support. The young male clerk, who had recently turned 18 was commiserating suggesting that she sue the jerk. He said that his father also had failed to contribute anything, but that his "Dad" just bought a brand new Tahoe or Yukon and was parading around town.

It appears that dad just had different priorities than the son. I wonder if Snake saw the article on Monday in the USA Today about some of the biggest tax evaders. Most all of them were desperately clinging to their mansions/possessions--often transferring ownership to children and siblings. Quite a few owed in excess of $1M to the federal and/or state government.

Gogiboy

jmonroe

…but I think having them there really sped it up because he was getting cranky and she wanted to take him home. So maybe more credit should go to my son?

First off congrats on your purchase. It sounds to me like you got a great deal. Enjoy your new wheels. Have you had time to wax that beauty yet? Several guys here like the Zaino stuff but I haven’t used it so I can’t give any advice on that.

I knew there was a reason that I’ve hung around Edmunds. There is always something to learn. I just learned from you that the next time I buy I should show up with some kids. I can’t take mine, they’re too old to act up but their kids will do just fine. Normally they’re pretty good and well behaved but I know how to push their buttons.

Even ‘isell’ would give me a great deal just to get us out of there once I got them wound up.

Thanks again for the tip.

jmonroe

obyone

Quite a few owed in excess of $1M to the federal and/or state government.

In trying to not get too far off topic we had a guy here who's ACCOUNTANT set up a money laundering operation that included Hong Kong and Tahiti laundering over $5 million a year for close to 8 years before the IRS investigation.

Turns out the IRS had assistance from the suspect's girlfriend. Yes he was also married but that's another story. Of course she was looking in her best interest and the percentage of her take (in the millions) should set her up for life. A woman scorned...

Anyway the business owner is doing year 6 of 10 years and the accountant is on year two of four.

I'm wondering what kind of cars did these guys drive? With that kind of money I wouldn't be surprised if they drove Hyundais so as to not reveal their true worth. :shades:

jipster

Since you are a miser that I do respect

I thought I (hint-the jipster) got all of the miser questions around here. I'm gonna have to send in my goons (obyone & izell) to rough up jmonroe for moving into my territory.

In reguards to your question about getting ripped off... as a matter of fact you did. We all do when we go to a dealership at $90 an hour labor. But, that's pretty much the norm when it comes to dealerships. Next time get an estimate from Midas or Valvoline Instant Oil. They can do most of that stuff at half the price. Or, see if the dealership will match their price. :shades:

oldfarmer50

"...which Chrysler?..."

A little Cirrus with the 2.5L V-6. The front bank is right out in the open but the back three are buried way under in back. My guy said they have to take "the top of the motor" off to get at them. I guess he figured I'd get confused with technical terms like manifold.

Sure is a more difficult job than changing plugs in my old Ford F-150. There's so much room in there that you could bring three friends and a couch for them to sit on. Even I was able to change those plugs.

That's the shame of modern vehicles. They seem to last twice as long, but when they break it costs four times more to fix them.

oldfarmer50

"...The bill was $781.00 including tax..."

If my "go to" independent guy charged more than $400 for that I'd slap his face.

Now you've got me wondering. This Friday I'm taking the new Eclipse to the dealer to get the oil changed to synthetic. What am I looking at for cost? 5 quarts of Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart costs about $23, a good filter should be less than $10, labor should be what, $25? If it costs more than $60 I'll be doing future changes in the drive-way.

Am I out of touch?

jipster

Am I out of touch?

Yes. I'd say since the late 60's.

In reguards to the $25 in labor for a oil change, and $60 total for an oil change... sounds a bit steep. That is unless the dealership needs to splice into the drain plug, of course. :sick: A dino oil change at my Buick dealership cost $35. So, I'm guessing you should be looking around $45-$50

british_rover

My shop charged 55 dollars for most synthetic oil changes with a complete check of all fluids and tire pressures.

obyone

the yen to dollar conversion. That alone should put the bill over $60.

On another note. How can you be certain you're getting 100% synthetic in your vehicle, or maybe the similar smelling synthetic blend? Or maybe the lot boy/oil changer forgets and adds dino like the rest of the cars and you get charged for 100% synthetic.

Not trying to be negative here but it has happened and the oil change guy at a dealership is usually not the factory trained, highly skilled, and big bucks earning tech if you know what I mean.

Call me paranoid but with the price of synthetic (Costco) I will do it myself for peace of mind.

qbrozen

Believe it or not, we haven't even driven it since getting home from the dealership. I guess that can happen when you have 6 cars, though.
I'm sure my wife is itching to drive it, but she's trying to be disciplined and putting miles on her beater convertible in the nice weather, instead.
But, although it is the wife's car, I will probably be the one that will have to wax it. Maybe this weekend if the weather agrees.

oldfarmer50

"...I'm guessing you should be looking around $45-$50..."

That's what the local Spiffy-Lube charges. I just assumed the dealer would charge more.

obyone

what if anything those selling Fords have to comment about it.

IMO, it doesn't sound good.

SVT

oldfarmer50

"...Call me paranoid..."

Great, now I'll be driving around listening for all the damage that "bad" oil is doing to my engine.

BTW, My Eclipse was built in Normal IL by UAW workers. So it's more American than some Chryslers I've owned.

jmonroe

I'm wondering what kind of cars did these guys drive? With that kind of money I wouldn't be surprised if they drove Hyundais so as to not reveal their true worth.

Folks, since I'm pretty sure this was directed at me, I’ll field it.

Do you really think a guy like me with all my wealth enjoys being seen in a POS like that? When I bought the first one it was to throw off the suspicious IRS man. Now put yourself in my position, do you think it would have been safe for me to buy a loaded up Maybach 62 S when we needed to buy another car? I’m pretty much locked in now. :sick:

About your question in post 27748 regarding changing the valve cover gaskets at the same time the intake manifold was pulled to do a plug change. I asked my son about that on Sunday when he showed me what was involved. He said this web site he goes to for tips didn’t mention it but when he went to the dealer for the intake manifold gasket he asked the guy at the parts counter about replacing those gaskets and this guy said, “Those things haven’t been a problem and we don’t routinely change them when we're in there. People have had problems when they do it because they don’t torque the covers properly and in the proper sequence, therefore, they create a problem. But if you want those gaskets we have them in stock”. Since my son had already checked for this kind of info and couldn’t find any and with what he had just been told, it scared him off.

So, again I’ll ask ‘greenpea’ to substantiate this when he has some time. If ‘rover’ wants to jump in that’s fine too.

jmonroe

verdugo

That article is over 2 years old. Am I missing something? :confuse: