Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jipster

That's what the local Spiffy-Lube charges. I just assumed the dealer would charge more

You would think so. My local "Valvoline Instant Oil Change" charges the same as my Buick dealership. Pretty much same service, oil change, check/top off fluids, check air pressure, look around a little bit. I'm guessing the dealership wants to get you in for the cheap oil changes so they can hit you below the $90 an hour belt, with there repairs/flushes/diagnostics.

edited: I get coupons all the time from my Mazda dealership. Oil and filter change and full circle inspection for $19.99. Don't think even the do-it-yourselfers can beat that. :P

isellhondas

Yeah, you're paranoid, at least a little bit.

You would have a much better chance of the dealership getting an oil change right than a Quickie Lube place. We see the results sometimes.

Even if they accidently put non-synthetic oil in your car, it wouldn't affect the life of your engine one iota. You would never notice the difference and neither would your car. Surely a small thing to worry about in the realm of things.

isellhondas

I have found the opposite to to be true.

The Quickie Lubes are always upselling something!

oldfarmer50

"...Yeah, you're paranoid..."

I don't know, these guys are all experts. If they say the dealer is going to replace my oil with used oil from the last customer and then forget to replace the drain plug, how can I doubt them? I bet the lot boy/oil changer will take my car on a joy ride and put the video on YouTube too.

I think I'll just leave my car in the garage and never drive it lest something bad happens.

jipster

I have found the opposite to to be true.

The Quickie Lubes are always upselling something

You've found the opposite of what to be true?

Quickie Lubes do try to upsell... same as the dealerships. I had both Valvoline Instant and Buick dealerships try to sell me serpentine belts a year or two after I had a new one installed. Finally had it changed this past week at Goodyear Service Center for around $95, as the belt was dryrotted at 4 years old. An upsell from coming in for a tire rotation and balance. But, like you noted before... upselling on a service a customer needs is good for both the business and the customer.

imidazol97

tried to upsell when I had my free tire rotation and rebalance. The inner front brake pads were worn rather thin on one side and the mechanic was almost gleeful to tell me that they were 99% gone. I appreciate they checked but it clearly was put job. They could only do the job with $95 rotors each, probably the same I can buy for $22 at autozone, and pads. The rotors were "gone" and too thin to cut. The head guy was there with his micrometer. Well you don't cut rotors if they're not warped and these aren't. I checked them with my own micrometer when I got home, and they had plenty left if you wanted to ruin them by turning them when they didn't need it.

Today I have my new GM ceramic pads on the original rotors. I did them myself the next day. Saved myself $700 for the job IIRC the estimate for fronts and of course they wanted to do new pads on the back.

isellhondas

I took our Chevy pick-up to a quickie lube and they wanted to replace my two month old air filter, and flush my transmission. I think it had been six months since I had changed the trans fluid.

isellhondas

After almost 20 years in the tool business I can tell you that the chains are usually the worst at this.

When you do need rotors, don't waste your money on the cheap Chinese ones. they aren't any good and they will warp if you look at them wrong.

Most shops will insist on resurfacing rotors to reduce "comebacks". Rotors that are slightly warped can cause a pulsation after new pads are installed.

obyone

Today I have my new GM ceramic pads on the original rotors

Don't you mean ACDelco ceramic pads?

obyone

If my "go to" independent guy charged more than $400 for that I'd slap his face.

Violence never solved anything...but you might try calling him a lying cheat :P

a good filter should be less than $10

A K&N filter runs $15.99 at checkers. But I'd bet on a Napa Gold (Wix) or ACDelco over the K&N anyday.

jmonroe

I took our Chevy pick-up to a quickie lube and they wanted to replace my two month old air filter, and flush my transmission. I think it had been six months since I had changed the trans fluid.

I am very surprised to hear (and I'm serious about this) that you took one of your vehicles to a place other than your Honda store but I suppose you had a good reason. Maybe it was to see what goes on out there. You just didn't tell us. Anyway, now you know what it feels like trying to defend yourself and proving to the shop why you don't need the items they say you need.

jmonroe

obyone

I'm surprised he didn't take it to Sears. Not taking it to the Honda dealership I can understand. Here they charge $125 hour labor.

Sears employees used to receive 33% discount on all purchases. Wait, that's current employees not former. Sorry about that.

snakeweasel

My back up was a pencil and a piece of paper.

When I took the CPA exam thats all they let you use. Because of that none of my accounting classes in college allowed calculators.

jmonroe

I replaced all of the fluids in my Explorer XLT---transmission and new filter, coolant, power steering, etc. and had a tune up with new plugs and wires. This also included new rear brake pads. The bill was $781.00 including tax. Was this a rip off or a pretty good price?

Sorry Richard, I meant to answer this but I almost forgot. I agree with the other guys here when they said you didn't get ripped given that you took your car to a dealer. I would say pretty much all dealers would charge close to that for the work they did.

The real question is, do you have to take your car to a dealer for that kind of work to get a good job. I say no you don't. This type of service can be done by any reputable independent for a good bit less. How much less, I don't know. You'd have to call around to get that info but why shop after the fact. It's only going to gnaw at you. Just plug mine and the others advice into your cranium and use it the next time.

You asked...I told ya.

jmonroe

greanpea68

I am very surprised to hear (and I'm serious about this) that you took one of your vehicles to a place other than your Honda store but I suppose you had a good reason.

I sometimes go to the jiffy lube down the street. Only because sometimes I just want the oil change done that day. There are many times I will bring it to my service dept. Only to get put on the back burner because I work there. It doesn't make sense. And it is not just me. Any time any of the sales people bring their car back there it is like pulling teeth to get anything done. I only have experience at two dealers. The last dealer I worked for service would help us with anything. This place service and sales are two different worlds. What are you going to do. I just try and play nice and stay on services good side :surprise:

GP

Oh yeah JM I will ask about the gasket/ manifold thing. The master techs love to talk

explorerx4

not sure what year your explorer is or how many miles you have on it, but the '02 and up need a special machine to replace the transmission fluid. it is not a diy job.
also, the emergency brake is another brake built into the rear brakes. the pads for this are very expensive.
plugs and wires can be expensive too. i remember the '97 i had had different plugs for the left and right sides of the v8.
if all that work was done, not too bad, i think.
road and track has a long term lexus hybrid. after about 40k miles the maintenance bill(not repairs) was over $4500!
no sale for me, but thanks for asking.

cdnpinhead

Well, I had (still do, for that matter) a K & E with teflon slides -- took a lot of pride in & got a lot of use from it. Among other things, a slide rule required that one knew the orders of magnitude of the variables involved so as to place the decimal correctly. Three significant digits, but where does the dot go? The ability to do order of magnitude analysis has gone the way of the slide rule. Not a good thing.

To keep somewhere close to on-topic, the good news is that no one brings a slide rule to a car negotiation. Laptop, Blackberry, you bet -- slide rule, not so much.

roadburner

My Mazda dealer gave me free oil changes for as long as I own the car. I still have to pony up @$35 to provide the Mobil 1.

mackabee

"The people on this board have given me an enlightening look at the view from the other side of the table, but it's important for you to realize that the professionals that you are are not at all representative of what we have to deal with out here."

Oh, I know believe me. I experienced the same thoughtless, unknowledgeable (its that even a word) rude behavior from several "sales persons" I didn't buy a thing from them. This was before I became a sales person myself. I told myself that when the day came that I could not treat a customer with dignity and respect it was time to find another line of work.
Mack

p.s still catching up on a lot of posts. :shades:

mackabee

Not to mention that they will throw a dead fish into the spare tire compartment and it will take you a long time to find it.
Mack

sterlingdog

"Not sure what year your Explorer is or how many miles you have on it,..."

Thanks for your input, and that of the other guys as well. Mine is an '03 Explorer XLT with 75,000 miles on it. You are correct about the special machine to replace the transmission fluid. They mentioned it in our conversation. Another thing. When I left the dealership, I noticed that the gear shift was acting funny. Drive became neutral! I had to put it in neutral and then back into drive to keep the car from rolling backwards. I went back to the dealership---in an unpleasant mood. They discovered the problem quickly. They had replaced the transmission filter with a NAPA filter by mistake. You definitely need a Ford manufactured filter for the Explorers. Now it drives great. Gas mileage has gone up from 17 mpg to 20 mpg. Thanks again.

Richard

sterlingdog

Thanks for the input. I'll tell you why I went to the local dealer. We've only been here a year, and I didn't know any independents. I never went to a dealer where we lived before. I had an independent who took care of my cars for 25 years. Sadly, he closed up and retired right before we moved up here. Guess I'll have to do some research and find a good place to go.

"You asked... I told ya."

That's why I asked. I knew you would be honest with no bs. :shades:

Richard

sterlingdog

We discovered today that the front door key to our house on my Explorer key ring is missing. In tracing my steps, I realized that it was on the ring when I took the car to the dealership. The reason that I know is because I came in from Alabama the night before, and entered through the front door which I usually don't do. Since then, I have entered through the garage as I usually do. I only discovered it today because I decided to unlock the front door since an UPS package was on the front porch.

I called the dealership and explained the situation to my service guy. He checked with the service department,but no one recalls seeing it. I hate to think it, but that key went some place. None of the other keys are missing from the ring. Another thought also bothers me a bit. When I picked the car up, my CD changer had been switched to a Rap radio station. There may be no connection, but I have to wonder who had time to play music and play with my keys?

To be on the safe side, we're going to have the house locks rekeyed. I'm not too worried. My 75 lb. chow/lab would kill anyone who tried to come in during the night. Still, we're out of town quite a bit.

I was wondering if any of you guys in the biz have ever had a problem come up like this?

Richard

kiawah

Whenever dropping off where others will work or drive our vehicles, I only ever provide just the key that they need to drive the vehicle. Never give any other keys.

I'm sure the dealer prefers that way, anyhow.

oldfarmer50

"...that key went some place..."

Boy, you folks down south are trusting. I would never leave other keys with ANYONE even the shop that my family has been doing business with for three generations. It only takes one crooked guy in the shop to hand your house key off to his ex-con pal and your new plasma TV goes for a ride. Back when you needed a key for the trunk I wouldn't even leave that key if the shop had no need to get in there.

imidazol97

>I called the dealership and explained the situation to my service guy. He checked with the service department,but no one recalls seeing it. I hate to think it, but that key went some place. None of the other keys are missing from the ring. Another thought also bothers me a bit. When I picked the car up, my CD changer had been switched to a Rap radio station.

I think we all can figure out where the key went with 99% probability. Your address is on the work order. The key is gone after the service visit.

imidazol97

You must be in a really high crime area!

My dealer leaves the keys in the car. After the car is serviced it's parked outside next to the service area and the keys are in it--if you are there waiting inside the showroom or customer center for the car. If you leave the car for service and take a loaner, it's parked on the street along the used car new car lots and keys are inside at the parts counter/register.

Long ago the salesman with whom I' dealt laughingly commented he could tell where people were from when he went out to look at their used car tradein. People from the area left the cars unlocked, sometimes with keys inside. People living toward the "city" had their cars locked up tight as drum even though they could look out one of the windows 80 feet away and see the car.

jipster

I think we all can figure out where the key went with 99% probability.

yeah, richards wife probably took it off when she couldn't find her key... and forgot to tell him.

To take a key off a key chain like that though would be pretty stupid, even for someone who listens to rap. Like richard wouldn't notice it missing. Or, maybe he thought richard would be too lazy to change his locks. If rap man were smart he would have made an impression of the key in his loose lunch meat sam-itch, or just taken a quick ride down to the local hardware store and made a copy.

jmonroe

...or just taken a quick ride down to the local hardware store and made a copy.

Maybe that guy wasn’t allowed to drive customers cars so he took the key, gave it to one of his buddies who could and when the key came back it couldn’t be replaced for fear of being caught. Or this buddy who got the key kept it for himself as part payment for some ‘white powder’ that was owed him.

Oh, there are lots of things that could have happened to that key chain when it was out of Richard’s possession.

I don’t mean to scare Richard but he did the right thing about the locks. Maybe he should get a couple companion Dobermans to go along with that attack mutt that he has. :surprise:

jmonroe

604doc

Having the radio station changed is one thing that really irks me. I know it's minor, but I always felt a little violated. When I was a service advisor, our shop had a standing rule that no one messed with the radio stations. We also wrote down and reprogrammed the stations if we knew the battery would be disconnected.

verdugo

My dealer has a policy that they will only take the car key. If you show up with 20 keys on your keyring, they will take out the car key and give you back the rest. I guess it's the only effective way to avoid incidents such as what happened to Richard.

verdugo

We also wrote down and reprogrammed the stations if we knew the battery would be disconnected.

OMG. That's awesome. It takes me a few seconds to reprogramm them, but it's such a pain. Love that policy.

british_rover

Our shop has a similar policy. When you plug up the diagnostic computers to a Land Rover you can save the majority of the settings to the computer and then restore them at a later date.

After a repair if the battery was disconnected, and it usually is, then the original settings are just restored from the diagnostic backup.

isellhondas

Our shop only works on Hondas and I didn't feel like crawling under the truck.

Not a big deal, I know what go's on out there and I don't have a problem with it. If my car truly needs something, please tell me about it. Just don't try to pad my bill with stuff I don't need!

oldfarmer50

"...You must be a high crime area..."

No, not at all. My guy usually leaves the ignition key over the sun visor so I can pick it up after closing. Vehicle is parked on the street all night like that sometimes. Never had a problem. Maybe it's because I usually drive such beaters that no self-respecting thief would steal them.

But to leave your house key with ANYONE is just asking for trouble.

jmonroe

When I was a service advisor, our shop had a standing rule that no one messed with the radio stations.

Just took a car in for PA state inspection on Monday. The policy of this independent service garage is to turn the radio off whenever someone gets in the car to move/test drive it. The owner, that I have come to know pretty well, told me this years ago. So just to satisfy myself that it’s still the policy I leave the radio on. Its always been off when it’s returned to me.

We also wrote down and reprogrammed the stations if we knew the battery would be disconnected.

That is what I call paying attention to details.

jmonroe

mackabee

"I drove a '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R. Yes, fun!"

Mack Jr. had a 94 SE-R. Best little car Nissan ever made. Too bad that after the 94 they redesigned the car and took away the fun. :mad:
Mack
p.s. 280 posts to go!

mackabee

I thought it was Hans and not Swen!

Mack

imidazol97

I hope you noticed my Motorcon!

isellhondas

Actually, this person has a very unusual name and I decided not to use it.

greanpea68

I checked with the Master tech and first question he asked was how many miles. I said 70k... He said he has done plenty at 105k intervel and he said that it was ussualy to early to do a tune up than. As for your question he said the only time you need to replace the gasket on the manifold is you damage it when you take it off. Other than that you should be all set :shades:

But if little J is anything like you than I understand why he did it so early.... Probably had nothing better to do

No I am just kidding he probably just likes to do things before sh*t happens.

Anyway i hope that answered your question.

GP

jmonroe

As for your question he said the only time you need to replace the gasket on the manifold is you damage it when you take it off. Other than that you should be all set

Darn it. You asked the wrong question. If you did this in Richard’s class you’d be standing in the corner.

My last question was should you change the VALVE COVER gaskets when you are in there doing a plug change at 62K miles which required pulling the intake manifold. He’s already replaced the plugs and intake manifold gasket so it sounds like he was conservative about doing that at 62K. Hopefully he didn’t have to change the VALVE COVER gaskets.

Anyway i hope that answered your question.

I already commented about that. What’s the chance of re-asking the question?

No I am just kidding he probably just likes to do things before sh*t happens.

That’s a good philosophy to have but that can be carried a little too far at times.

jmonroe

greanpea68

My last question was should you change the VALVE COVER gaskets when you are in there doing a plug change at 62K miles which required pulling the intake manifold

OK.... I have your answer form our master tech Brian who has been with Nissan since it was Datsun :surprise:

He said the only reason you should change the Valve cover gasket is if it is leaking...

He also than proceeded to tell me I should stop using the word tune up because you don't perform a tune up anymore. He says all you do is replace the spark plugs at 105k and the engine will continue running perfectly. He said we don't change fuel filters anymore either. I didn't ask why because he was like what are your " friends doing " He than insisted on the fact a person only factory trained should be changing the spark plugs :mad: ... So that is when I thanked him and told him that would be it for today

Hope that helps "J"

GP

If you have another question I will go to the next master tech till I wear him down

jmonroe

He said the only reason you should change the Valve cover gasket is if it is leaking...

That's what the parts counter guy told my son. “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”, “leave sleeping dogs lie”, that kind of stuff. I’ll pass it on to my son, I’m sure he’ll be glad to tell me, “I told you I didn’t have to change them”. :mad:

Hope that helps "J"

It sure did.

He said we don't change fuel filters anymore either.

Now that does surprise me. Maybe we have ultra clean gasoline these days. :confuse:

Thanks GP

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

"...hope you noticed my Motorcon!..."

Yes, indeed I did.

oldfarmer50

"...hope you noticed my Motorcon!..."

Yes, indeed I did.

obyone

He said we don't change fuel filters anymore either.

If you've ever seen a Nissan fuel filter you would know why. They are the size of coffee cans.

With platinum plugs and unleaded gas 100K service interval for plugs is the norm. What they don't tell you is that the plugs will snap and crumble when removing due to the heat damage and yes some are almost impossible get out.

jmonroe

What they don't tell you is that the plugs will snap and crumble when removing due to the heat damage and yes some are almost impossible get out.

I always prided myself in being able to get plugs out all in one piece but eventually if you change enough of them the porcelain will break on a few. What always scared me was if they wouldn't unthread. So I started to use a little 'anti-sieze compound' and that solved that fear. I told my son that with plugs that are good for 80K miles and more it should be mandatory now.

They don't make that stuff for no reason.

jmonroe

roadburner

If you've ever seen a Nissan fuel filter you would know why. They are the size of coffee cans.

Ditto for BMWs. I still change them every 60K.

mackabee

I finally read through all the posts and I guess you guys and gals have been talking about calculators, oil filters, air filters, house keys, etc..
I will give you a brief summary of my trip and some of the cool and not so cool cars I saw down there.

Mack