I agree that Volvo Manual shifters can be a little rubbery. Even the R series Volvos tend to be a little vague with their shifting action but that is nothing a short shift kit can't solve.
Stopped at the Volvo dealer today. Only shopped cars, not jobs! Seemed to be a fair number of people there for 2:00 on a wednesday.
Anyway, drove an S40 2.4i. Nice driving car. Not ready to buy yet, just doing preliminary scoping because I may need a new one next week.
Nice experience. Friendly folks (helps that the owner/GSM greets you by name!). Told the sales guy what I wanted to see, and they had one right up front (used). Gave me the key, got a tag, and sent me on my way.
At the end, he got me a quick price, and told me to call when I was ready. Plus he is looking to see if they have another color coming soon (I didn't like black over black).
Probably a good price. THis was a 2008 former service loaner. 7,300 miles on it. A new one is MSRP ~29,400, invoice ~27,000, Edmunds TMV ~26,500.
They first pencilled it at 24,500, including CPO warrranty out to 6/100K. SO a practically new, current MY car, for a nice discount, plus an extra 2/50,000 of warranty.
It is so much nicer dealing with a low key, mom/pop, local dealer instead of one of the giant megastores. Being a Volvo dealer probably makes a difference too, given the "oddities" of their traditional clientel!
We go into the showroom and I brain farted for a moment. Instead of telling the SM that Mr. Barnes was offering $800.00 I said $1000.00 (This is where working the desk managers comes in) If you give them a lower figure they counter with a higher figure. So guess what he did?? Yep, he goes: "Tell him $1200.00 more and I'll do the deal." Dang it! I knew and just mumble under my breath.
Mack I am laughing right now !!!! I know exactly what you mean about working the desk. The trick is to not get caught at working the desk. Than you can get black balled I have only been caught once or twice and it can be painful.
For the consumers...
It can be painful because now your manager can get stubborn if he thinks you are working him and not the customer. Managers frown on that for some reason :P I have seen some managers go crazy when they think a salesperson is being "weak" by working the desk and not the customer. You definately don't want to be that sales person for the day.
Does the dealership have to pay minimum wage + commission or can they retain you for say $3/hr + large commission percentage which in theory can turn out to be a higher than min. wage on a good day?
When I first started posting here JM said he was happy that he could just scroll right past my posts when he saw my name at the top...
No, that is not correct. I never said that about you or anyone one else for that matter.
You have me confused with someone else.
Now, if you're going to start up with crap like that I'll be all over your post. I thought you'd know I'm not a scroll and run kind of guy, I'll go toe to toe with ya until you say uncle.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I thought you'd know I'm not a scroll and run kind of guy, I'll go toe to toe with ya until you say uncle.
I never forget it because I was like wow this is a tough crowd.
You ment it as my posts were a waste of time. That is when there were other people from company who could log on to edmunds under my name from other computers. they were saying stupid stuff annoying everyone.
You definatley never ran from anybody here :shades: Well maybe Richard :P
They first pencilled it at 24,500, including CPO warrranty out to 6/100K.
That's a pretty big difference unless they are low-balling you. Given our company here is usually not that far off (I've found Edmunds to be around $300/$400 high) the best explanation I can come up with is that they aren't current with the market falling on cars. If radio and TV adds are any indication, it's pretty bad out there and our biz guys, on average, are pretty much confirming this.
It is so much nicer dealing with a low key, mom/pop, local dealer instead of one of the giant megastores.
I'm sure it is but they're getting pretty scarce now.
Good luck and if you aren't being low-balled, that first pencil sounds like $24K even when you decide to pull the trigger.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
to me, the S40 is a wannabee Volvo. So cramped inside. They bomb at the auctions but I suppose they can be a great buy for that reason for the people who happen to like them.
1. He's a regular and tips me after the delivery, plus he usually buys another car for the wife and one for the daughter. I can count on him for at least three sales in one month. And it's really not that much work. Usually he just calls me up, tells me what he wants, we agree on the price, and he comes in with check in hand ready to take the car home. A year later he puts it in the paper and comes back for another. This time he has gotten color queer on me that's why it seems like it's been taking so long. In reality if I was to add the time spent on the phone and on the lot it would probably add up to an hour to an hour and a half.
2. Why did Toyota come out with the 09 Camry so early? Marketing ploy to counteract the new Accord. That's the only reason I can think of. Just think of this: Toyota Salesperson: "Wouldn't you rather have a 2009 Camry than a 2008 Accord?" That's my story and I'm sticking by it. Mack
After 11 months I think I'm just about done with the Mazdaspeed. I love the 260 horses and 23 mpg fuel economy, but I simply HATE HATEHATE the FWD. I suppose that's what I get for wanting to try something "different"- never again. Even my wife can tell; every time we are in the vicinity she asks, "You want to drive by Swope BMW?". Smart girl. And so the hunt begins anew...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Does the dealership have to pay minimum wage + commission or can they retain you for say $3/hr + large commission percentage which in theory can turn out to be a higher than min. wage on a good day?
We pay a flat $250 a week draw + commision + a $250 a month demo allowance. The draw is subtracted from your commision check.
Not as bad as the $3 ph a waiter makes but close.
You can't have to big of a draw or cats will sit back and get fat on it.
I have seen some managers go crazy when they think a salesperson is being "weak" by working the desk and not the customer.
I will chastise a guy for working the desk and not the customer. Not so much chastise my personality just won't let me do it. But if you are known for not being able to even close a door and continually work the desk instead of the customer don't come looking to me for a bone (house deal, like giving the dog a bone) Our Senior Salesmen are the worst when it comes to that. They know the system and by the time it gets to the point where they are going to get a mini they lay down. Next thing ya know they have given up the few hundred we had made plus the Doc and have turned the trade into an instant spiff unit.
The reason we (Managers) get so irritated at it is that a sales person does not participate in losses. If there deal loses $800 they don't get the $800 subtracted from there gross total, they just get a mini, take the unit and move on.
We on the other hand participate, if the deal loses $800 it comes off the total we are payed on.
We on the other hand participate, if the deal loses $800 it comes off the total we are payed on.
I can understand that management will take a hit when the sales person doesn’t work for the store but rather himself and as management you have to be able to see through this.
Now, what happens at the end of the month when everybody especially upper management and the owners are scurrying to make their numbers and are willing to all but give away a car? Do the little management guys also take the hit then?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...this site is one of the friendliest on the web..."
So true. I suggest that the critical posters sample a few other car web sites. You'll get nothing but insults and profanity. Perhaps that is what the OP was looking for as entertainment.
On the other hand, if the OP was looking for information on the secret methods to getting a 10K below invoice deal, he has to pay the club dues first.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
OK, since the professional sales stories have been a bit thin lately I'll tell you about a sale I did a few years ago.
After 13 years of northeast winters my Toyota pick-up was looking pretty sad. It had rusted to the point that the lower panels on the bed were flapping in the wind, in fact the only thing holding the bed together was the bed liner. I put it out in front of the house with a whopping $200 price tag on the window. At that point I just wanted it out of my life.
Every few days someone would come and look it over and begin the dance. One guy wanted me to replace the bed before he would buy. Another complained about the color (I don't know if he was talking about the original red paint or the acquired rust brown). Every one of them had some BS problem with some feature which was followed by "Will you take less?"
I was astounded that people would be so cheap as to try to grind on a $200 vehicle. I mean, I was selling it basicly for scrap value. That didn't seem to matter. I even thought about putting up a sign that said: FOR SALE $400--TODAY ONLY 1/2 PRICE $200. I finally sold it for $175. I figured it would have cost $25 worth of effort to junk it.
I feel sorry for you sales guys who have to put up with that nonsense every day.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For a moment, let's go back to the survey discussion. I ran into the local Chrysler service manager at the grocery store last night. We started a discussion about the importance of surveys. I asked him if his department counted on the perfect surveys. He said that they liked to get them, but that they didn't get beat up if they weren't perfect. He said that the really bad surveys get attention, but that the 8's, 9's, and 10's are ok.
He said that the car sales surveys are different. He mentioned that the salesmen get really upset if the survey isn't perfect. He said that it was the dealer who had hard words to say about the salesmen who didn't get perfect scores.
He also noted that I had not turned in my last three surveys on service. I promised to do better.
I would have talked longer, but Mrs. Richard was standing there with this look on her face which said, "Why is this discussion important?" :P
I can't believe that customers would balk at $200 for a 13 year old truck---even with the rusty tail gate. Maybe you should have put out a sign that said "Free Truck---plus $200 tax and tags." :P
A few years ago, one of our lot guys hung the wrong sale tag in one of our used cars. The marked price was about 3000.00 less than it should have been and if we had sold it at that price we would have lost over 2000.00.
A guy who barely spoke english found me and asked me if he could take a closer look. As soon as I saw the sale tag, I knew a MAJOR pricing mistake had been made. The guy looked the car over and nitpicked it to death. At this point, I dopn't remember what kind of car it even was but it was in great shape as is the case with all of the used cars we sell. Still there is always something with any used car. Small scratches, etc. They guy managed to find every one of them.
I left him alone with the car and I found our Used Car Manager. I asked him if he had really tagged that car that low.
" WHAT is it tagged for" Yep, big mistake.
The customer drove the car a short distance. I remember he was such a bad and scary driver that I wouldn't let him on the freeway.
He liked it well enough so I sat him down at my desk.
I explained to him that we had made a MAJOR pricing error but we would honor it just for him.
Nope, wasn't good enough! He made an offer two thousand dollars less than the sale tag!
Of course, I didn't want to sell it to him and I told him that. I also told him that if he left, I was going to pull out the sale tag and raise the price by several thousand dollars.
" I shop around"...And he left!
A VERY happy UCM went out to the car and changed the sign!
Happy ending....He came back three hours later!
" I take car"
He didn't believe me but after seeing the new sign, the look on his face was priceless!
Talk to Shifty on the classics board. I have a client that collects all kinds of British cars and I think he actually has a TR3A but he is out of the country for two weeks.
You didn't read the rest of my post did you. He buys them cheap and re-sells them after a year for around what he pays for them. This time I may get a bonus deal as his son is also in the market. Mack
It is a great marketing tool, a good message to send but really not that great of a deal IMO. We figured up that if you live in an area that gas is $3.65 a gallon and you buy a car that gets 20MPG it is equal to a $1188 rebate. But I bet it sells more cars then $2000 customer cash would.
Back in Sept 2005 I bought my 2006 Buick LaCrosse CSX. The salesman I was working with agreed to a selling price of $28,000 plus TTL. List price was just over $30,000. This car was on their to be built list and be here in 4 weeks. The salesman was professional...but I did have to remind him twice to send an email to me to confirm the price.
The car comes in and I buy the car at the agreed upon price. However when signing the purchase sheet....I noticed a GSM price on the order sheet of 27,400 plus acessories of $600 total $28000. I went ahead and signed it.... as I was getting the price as promised. (Apparently GSM was an employee price...however this was a 2006 and wasn't included in the much advertised promotion).
I made the purchase and used my GM Card points (about $1200) also. I had also told the salesman that I was using the card as part of the down payment.
10 days later I get a call from the dealership accounting office saying...."hey you can't use the GM card and get the employee price. I told him I didn't buy at the employee price". He said "guess I need to talk to Steve". I never heard from them again.
Have you heard of stores sneaking this in to make a bigger profit for themselves?
I was proud of myself....apparently I had gotten a price so low that the only way to make a profit on the deal was to make it an employee price. J Monroe and the Jipster would have been proud.
Now now that is not badge engineering as the S40 has entirely different body panels, a different interior, different powertrain options including AWD which is not available on the Mazda3 at all
Platform sharing is not badge engineering. Badge engineering is like the Cobalt/G5 twins where everything is the same except for some minor body work changes.
Honda uses platform sharing for many of their vehicles. The Odyssey, Ridgeline and Pilot are all platform mates. Older model Odysses shared their platform with the Accord although I don't think that is the case anymore. The Civic used to share its platform with the CR-V and the Prelude.
If you think the S40 and Mazda3 or badge engineering then VWs entire line is a badge engineering job. The Golf, Jetta and Beetle are all the same platform. The EOS uses most of the jetta platform with a little bit from the Passat.
You sure? It sure looks like it from underneath although it looks a little more substantial then the odyssey and pilot the overall shape and suspension points look the same.
Comments
Personally, dollar for dollar, I find the Pilot to be a much better vehicle for a family man.
and a little bit of NEO Synthetic oil
Or Redline MT90
When I first started posting here JM said he was happy that he could just scroll right past my posts when he saw my name at the top...
I can't go back and figure it out it has been way to long.
GP
Two things...
1. You have much more patience than I do. All of that work for a grinder mini?
No thanks.
2. WHY did Toyota introduce 2009 Camrys this early??
This reminds me of Costco putting christmas stuff on display in August!
Anyway, drove an S40 2.4i. Nice driving car. Not ready to buy yet, just doing preliminary scoping because I may need a new one next week.
Nice experience. Friendly folks (helps that the owner/GSM greets you by name!). Told the sales guy what I wanted to see, and they had one right up front (used). Gave me the key, got a tag, and sent me on my way.
At the end, he got me a quick price, and told me to call when I was ready. Plus he is looking to see if they have another color coming soon (I didn't like black over black).
Probably a good price. THis was a 2008 former service loaner. 7,300 miles on it. A new one is MSRP ~29,400, invoice ~27,000, Edmunds TMV ~26,500.
They first pencilled it at 24,500, including CPO warrranty out to 6/100K. SO a practically new, current MY car, for a nice discount, plus an extra 2/50,000 of warranty.
It is so much nicer dealing with a low key, mom/pop, local dealer instead of one of the giant megastores. Being a Volvo dealer probably makes a difference too, given the "oddities" of their traditional clientel!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mack I am laughing right now !!!! I know exactly what you mean about working the desk. The trick is to not get caught at working the desk. Than you can get black balled
For the consumers...
It can be painful because now your manager can get stubborn if he thinks you are working him and not the customer. Managers frown on that for some reason :P
I have seen some managers go crazy when they think a salesperson is being "weak" by working the desk and not the customer. You definately don't want to be that sales person for the day.
There a story from the front line :shades:
GP
Does the dealership have to pay minimum wage + commission or can they retain you for say $3/hr + large commission percentage which in theory can turn out to be a higher than min. wage on a good day?
No, that is not correct. I never said that about you or anyone one else for that matter.
You have me confused with someone else.
Now, if you're going to start up with crap like that I'll be all over your post. I thought you'd know I'm not a scroll and run kind of guy, I'll go toe to toe with ya until you say uncle.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I never forget it because I was like wow this is a tough crowd.
You ment it as my posts were a waste of time. That is when there were other people from company who could log on to edmunds under my name from other computers. they were saying stupid stuff annoying everyone.
You definatley never ran from anybody here :shades: Well maybe Richard :P
GP
They first pencilled it at 24,500, including CPO warrranty out to 6/100K.
That's a pretty big difference unless they are low-balling you. Given our company here is usually not that far off (I've found Edmunds to be around $300/$400 high) the best explanation I can come up with is that they aren't current with the market falling on cars. If radio and TV adds are any indication, it's pretty bad out there and our biz guys, on average, are pretty much confirming this.
It is so much nicer dealing with a low key, mom/pop, local dealer instead of one of the giant megastores.
I'm sure it is but they're getting pretty scarce now.
Good luck and if you aren't being low-balled, that first pencil sounds like $24K even when you decide to pull the trigger.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm sure you know the only person who keeps my track skills polished and Richard ain't the one. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
to me, the S40 is a wannabee Volvo. So cramped inside. They bomb at the auctions but I suppose they can be a great buy for that reason for the people who happen to like them.
This time he has gotten color queer on me that's why it seems like it's been taking so long. In reality if I was to add the time spent on the phone and on the lot it would probably add up to an hour to an hour and a half.
2. Why did Toyota come out with the 09 Camry so early? Marketing ploy to counteract the new Accord. That's the only reason I can think of. Just think of this: Toyota Salesperson: "Wouldn't you rather have a 2009 Camry than a 2008 Accord?" That's my story and I'm sticking by it.
Mack
Also, the 26,500 was for a brand new 2008. This one had 7k on it, but that was offset by the CPO warranty.
This model S40 seems to be a strong seller that holds it's value. The prior generation though was a dog.
Craig, not huge inside, but it is a small car, and some of us like those!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
We pay a flat $250 a week draw + commision + a $250 a month demo allowance. The draw is subtracted from your commision check.
Not as bad as the $3 ph a waiter makes but close.
You can't have to big of a draw or cats will sit back and get fat on it.
I will chastise a guy for working the desk and not the customer.
The reason we (Managers) get so irritated at it is that a sales person does not participate in losses. If there deal loses $800 they don't get the $800 subtracted from there gross total, they just get a mini, take the unit and move on.
We on the other hand participate, if the deal loses $800 it comes off the total we are payed on.
The earlier ones were, indeed, dogs!
I can understand that management will take a hit when the sales person doesn’t work for the store but rather himself and as management you have to be able to see through this.
Now, what happens at the end of the month when everybody especially upper management and the owners are scurrying to make their numbers and are willing to all but give away a car? Do the little management guys also take the hit then?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So true. I suggest that the critical posters sample a few other car web sites. You'll get nothing but insults and profanity. Perhaps that is what the OP was looking for as entertainment.
On the other hand, if the OP was looking for information on the secret methods to getting a 10K below invoice deal, he has to pay the club dues first.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Gee, I thought Toyotas lasted longer than that. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
After 13 years of northeast winters my Toyota pick-up was looking pretty sad. It had rusted to the point that the lower panels on the bed were flapping in the wind, in fact the only thing holding the bed together was the bed liner. I put it out in front of the house with a whopping $200 price tag on the window. At that point I just wanted it out of my life.
Every few days someone would come and look it over and begin the dance. One guy wanted me to replace the bed before he would buy. Another complained about the color (I don't know if he was talking about the original red paint or the acquired rust brown). Every one of them had some BS problem with some feature which was followed by "Will you take less?"
I was astounded that people would be so cheap as to try to grind on a $200 vehicle. I mean, I was selling it basicly for scrap value. That didn't seem to matter. I even thought about putting up a sign that said: FOR SALE $400--TODAY ONLY 1/2 PRICE $200. I finally sold it for $175. I figured it would have cost $25 worth of effort to junk it.
I feel sorry for you sales guys who have to put up with that nonsense every day.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
He said that the car sales surveys are different. He mentioned that the salesmen get really upset if the survey isn't perfect. He said that it was the dealer who had hard words to say about the salesmen who didn't get perfect scores.
He also noted that I had not turned in my last three surveys on service. I promised to do better.
I would have talked longer, but Mrs. Richard was standing there with this look on her face which said, "Why is this discussion important?" :P
You just better hope that she and I don't ever have a meeting. You'll be screaming more than "uncle". :P
Richard
Richard
That would be a $200 doc fee, or prep fee, or ADM. The buyer can take care of the TTL on their own.
A few years ago, one of our lot guys hung the wrong sale tag in one of our used cars. The marked price was about 3000.00 less than it should have been and if we had sold it at that price we would have lost over 2000.00.
A guy who barely spoke english found me and asked me if he could take a closer look. As soon as I saw the sale tag, I knew a MAJOR pricing mistake had been made. The guy looked the car over and nitpicked it to death. At this point, I dopn't remember what kind of car it even was but it was in great shape as is the case with all of the used cars we sell. Still there is always something with any used car. Small scratches, etc. They guy managed to find every one of them.
I left him alone with the car and I found our Used Car Manager. I asked him if he had really tagged that car that low.
" WHAT is it tagged for" Yep, big mistake.
The customer drove the car a short distance. I remember he was such a bad and scary driver that I wouldn't let him on the freeway.
He liked it well enough so I sat him down at my desk.
I explained to him that we had made a MAJOR pricing error but we would honor it just for him.
Nope, wasn't good enough! He made an offer two thousand dollars less than the sale tag!
Of course, I didn't want to sell it to him and I told him that. I also told him that if he left, I was going to pull out the sale tag and raise the price by several thousand dollars.
" I shop around"...And he left!
A VERY happy UCM went out to the car and changed the sign!
Happy ending....He came back three hours later!
" I take car"
He didn't believe me but after seeing the new sign, the look on his face was priceless!
Richard
This is what I think a Volvo should be:
V70 R 6-speed
150 units with a total gross of $270K before expenses pays me more then 180 units with $225K.
We blow buy the # the manufacture puts us on every month any how so that is not a concern.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mack
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
$3.65-$2.99=.66 cents
12000/20=600X3=1800X.66=$1188
The car comes in and I buy the car at the agreed upon price. However when signing the purchase sheet....I noticed a GSM price on the order sheet of 27,400 plus acessories of $600 total $28000. I went ahead and signed it.... as I was getting the price as promised. (Apparently GSM was an employee price...however this was a 2006 and wasn't included in the much advertised promotion).
I made the purchase and used my GM Card points (about $1200) also. I had also told the salesman that I was using the card as part of the down payment.
10 days later I get a call from the dealership accounting office saying...."hey you can't use the GM card and get the employee price. I told him I didn't buy at the employee price". He said "guess I need to talk to Steve". I never heard from them again.
Have you heard of stores sneaking this in to make a bigger profit for themselves?
I was proud of myself....apparently I had gotten a price so low that the only way to make a profit on the deal was to make it an employee price. J Monroe and the Jipster would have been proud.
Kevin
Is the $250 to satisfy the minimum wage requirements ($5.85 x 40 = $234) ?
and you are right about the fat cats
The earlier ones were, indeed, dogs!
The latest S40 and the Mazda3 share a common platform.
badge engineering relives !
http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2006/volvo/s40/model-update.html
Platform sharing is not badge engineering. Badge engineering is like the Cobalt/G5 twins where everything is the same except for some minor body work changes.
Honda uses platform sharing for many of their vehicles. The Odyssey, Ridgeline and Pilot are all platform mates. Older model Odysses shared their platform with the Accord although I don't think that is the case anymore. The Civic used to share its platform with the CR-V and the Prelude.
If you think the S40 and Mazda3 or badge engineering then VWs entire line is a badge engineering job. The Golf, Jetta and Beetle are all the same platform. The EOS uses most of the jetta platform with a little bit from the Passat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_A_platform#A5_.28PQ35.29
" I take car"
He didn't believe me but after seeing the new sign, the look on his face was priceless!
Yes, but did he "take car" for the original wrong low price or the corrected one?