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Comments
I don't mean to pick on Hyundais.
Using your numbers, you are assuming a Hyundai will bring book values at trade in time. They don't.
They are also difficult to sell as used cars, at least in my area. We have had several nice ones that we usually end up taking to the auction (and losing money)after they sit here for 90 days. People just don't get excited about them.
We disagree about them being on par in the fit and finish catagory. I think they still have a ways to go.
I don't doubt all of this could change in the future. Again, I am talking about the realities of today's market.
You did the right thing. I let the dealer run my credit first (780 FICO) and then they tried to give me a higher price so I could make payments on the "difference" on my offer verses theirs.
When I had my hand on the showroom door ready to walk out they backed off. I brought them a check for the FULL AMOUNT the very next day....
Oh but you do.
Using your numbers, you are assuming a Hyundai will bring book values at trade in time. They don't.
Nor does Honda. But lets look at it this way, even if my Hyundai had no worth I am still better off than I would be getting the book value on the Honda when you take in the time value of money.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There ARE a larger number of informed customers these days though. And that trend should (hopefully) continue. It will probably just be a slow process.
You can't make a point with someone who believes they are better off with an item of zero value than one with some value. The disconnect with common sense is shocking and nothing anyone says will change it. Better to just let it go.
The whole debate seems silly, anyway. It's like, who makes the best garbage disposer? OK, as vehicular appliances they're nice but they're still appliances.
A friend has a new Sonata LX V6. Real nice car, I'm impressed. Of course Hyundai's history is checkered to say the least so we'll see how the new models hold up. They do seem to be a good value, though, with V6 EX Accords pushing $30K and all.
Bretfraz, that's the quote of the day- if not the week!!!
When people like snakeweasel consider vehicles in terms of value by using logic, instead of riding one's emotions, the consumer invariably wins.
If you buy a 2-3 year old Sonata with low mileage USED and get it properly inspected, they represent a very good value over a 2-3 year old Camry or Accord.
Buying a new one, like buying a new Taurus, is not a wise decision.
Depreciation is a used car buyers BEST friend.
How about
My new Amana fridge is just as good as your Bosch?
My Toro is just as good as your Snapper?
My American Standard is as good as your Moen?
You have to mention Kohler and Delta.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And I totally agree with you, if you don't plan to run the vehicle to death, and retaining value is that important to you, either buy a quality used car, or get on a *good* lease program and trade up every 3 years or so.
It's reletivly common knowledge the moment you drive a new car off the lot, you've lost a lot of resale value (in most cases..)
When will the new iPod come out?
How safe of an investment is a tree farm in Costa Rica?
Yea that is one motivation I did not think of; but then, I don't think that was very smart anyways, because they ran me right out of there. The result was no-end profit!
Bobst: "Don't expect a dealer to give you a good price. Some dealers do, but don't expect it. The car buying experience is much easier and more enjoyable if you first determine the exact type of car you want and the price you want to pay. Offer that price to the dealer and see what happens."
Bobst, I have heard you describe your method before but have never tried it. I think I will have to on the next go-round. However I just have one question: how well does this work when financing vs. writing a personal check? Should I get a financing check from my credit union made out beforehand, in the amount of my offer?
Sure, it failed on you, but it probably works on most people. We're conditioned to buying everything on credit these days and so a credit check is like a form of ID anymore.
You might have been able to coax a price out of them if you adamantly stated that you would be paying cash. The quoted price would probably have been higher than if you presented yourself as a payment buyer.
Still, I don't blame you. I would have walked too.
Is this a regional thing to south florida or is this standard practice accross the country? I feel that a $500 to $600 "dealer fee" on an 8 to 10K used car is really excessive. I'm interested to hear responses to this.
Offer a price that does not include the fee and see if they accept it.
I love that one. I guess if it's printed on the form it must be true!
The document fee is just a profit add-on for the dealer. Just negotiate an 'out the door' price to avoid dealing with it.
You missed my point. The thing with value costs more to begin with, that extra cost comes at a price of lost potential. In this case the Honda cost around $3,000 more. In my case that $3,000 stayed in my investments accounts and is now most likely over $5,000. So I am better off with the car at no vale and and extra $5,000 in the bank than I am with just the Honda valued at $4,000.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I would maybe look out of your area some if it is that bad.
LOL....even better!
Dealer fee, document fee, ADM (additional dealer markup), AMP (addional market pricing), processing fee, they can all be dealt with in the same way...........negotiate an 'out the door' price.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Come up to Ohio and buy your car and save. I haven't seen one of those yet as I browsed!!! LOL.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If you feel $8.2k is a fair price for the vehicle itself, then you should offer $8.2k plus the cost of tax, tag, and title. That way the dealer can include doc fee, mop 'n glo, ADM etc. as line items if he wants, as long as the OTD price is one that you're happy with.
I agree with the philosophy on buying based on OTD price, but I would venture to say that most buyers do not shop in this manner...
>I think you're missing the point.
I read that to be "offer them 8850 + 6% tax + plates and registration...
Are you saying 8850 includes 6% and plates and registration.
Total Agreement.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sales Tax is 6% in Florida so 492 dollars of sales tax.
New plates and registration is around a 150-175 dollars in Florida so that makes up the rest of the offer.
Let the dealership figure out how to allocate the actually price of the car.
If they want to sell it to me for 7,200 dollars and charge 1,000 dollars in fees then let them. If they want to sell it to me for 8,000 dollars and charge 200 dollars in fees that is find too.
Same applies to a lot of other cars.
Of all the problems we face, our legislators are busy ensuring that car dealers make more money. Not surprising, really, as it is a campaign year. Unfortunately, the corruption here seems to know no bounds.
I keep pretty busy and I'm never without something to do!
How many of those would have been yours (or how many average per salesman, if you don't want to reveal your personal numbers)................and Brit, how does that compare to your average month
We were looking for a compact pickup and went into a Nissan dealership. Looked over their trucks and were met by a pleasant young guy, who took my wife for a test drive, since she was the primary driver of the truck. I noticed there were no window stickers in any of the trucks while I walked the lot.
We unfortunately had a Chev Citation and yes, by then the word was out and values were in the toilet. My wife had told him we were looking to trade it. He takes the Citation keys to the used car manager. So....we go to the cubicle and start talking numbers. He says "while I go get the invoice, fill out this form"---a credit application from the biggest bank in the city. When he returns with a handwritten worksheet with some numbers, he is upset that we did not fill out the credit app. I respond that we will fill it out once we have agreed on a bottom line price on the car, then I asked if there wasn't a consumer law that required the window sticker to be in the vehicle window?
He leaves and comes back with Joe sales manager, who starts grinding on me about how much we want to pay a month. I respond with "$10." He is definitely not having fun talking with us, so he decides to take the attack mode. Starts to tell us how stupid we were for having the Citation, which has little value in the market. As an aside, I have to describe the physical layout of the showroom: all the cubicles are made of glass and have fairly short walls, so when someone talks loudly, everyone can see who and where it is. Talk about trying to use the intimidation factor. Unfortunately for him, I don't car what a bunch of other car buyers think about me.
So I now stand, so I am above the cubicle walls and tell him I am calling the state attorney general because they do not have MSRP posted in each car. The only sticker is their Dealer-Add with the protection package, etc. added. Now others in the showroom are hearing me and mr sales manager gets upset, telling me to lower my voice and sit down. My response is give me my keys so we can leave.
They were not done with us yet. My wife is now upset since she doesn't like buying cars in the first place and hates all this b.s. Now the "Floor Manager" who is mr. sales manager's boss strides over asking if he can be of help. My response (loudly) give me my keys so we can leave. I will never buy a car from your dealership. The louder I get the more agitated they are since my voice is can be heard all over the showroom. FINALLY, we get our keys and leave.
A couple weeks later, we are still looking for a truck and go to another Nissan agency. Who do we find there but Mr. sales manager, who now is working in sales rather than management at a new dealer.
We ended up with a Chevrolet that we had for 20 years.
Final comment: Went back recently and stopped to look at the new Maxima. Same techniques, same showroom layout, but there are no more partitions. You are sitting elbow to elbow with another person going through the buying process. I think it is more for intimidation than anything.
I feel for the people that get twisted and pushed into buying something they can't afford or don't need just to avoid the embarrassment.
Good luck to all
I think the most we have ever done a month in recent history is 32 new and used cars.
We used to only have two salesguides so we both averaged about 8-10 cars a month. Now they have hired a third salesman and franky we don't have the volume for three salesguides right now.
Maybe next year when we have four new car models to sell one of which will start under 35,000 dollars then three sales guides will work but right now it is not.
Sounds like you need to get out and play golf with the governor more often to keep up on these things. (Inside Ohio joke-governor convicted of accepting golf outings not reported, a felony I believe.) Maybe I'll have to buy my next car in Kentucky or Indiana?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
She has 98,000 miles on it now and it has given her very little trouble. A new starter and battery recently... she had a broken door handle... so, fairly minor things on such an old car.
A friend of mine just returned his BMW convertible (lease) and bought a 2006 Hyundai Sonata. Times are a-changing!
Mark156
You, me and I'm sure most of the people who hang-out on this thread, know how to negotiate around this kind of crap. The bad thing is that most buyers don't. Therefore, the politicians have essentially given car dealers a license to print money.
As you said , this is an election year!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
When you allow yourself to be embarrassed/intimidated by not speaking up when buying anything especially a car, you're going to have you're pockets picked clean. If you don't have any respect for you're hard earned dollars, don't expect a salesperson to have any respect for it either. In fact, you're the person that makes their day.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Could this be called coming to you're senses?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I heard about seventy-something Texas and Louisiana Ford dealerships wrote the company to ask them to stop using the homosexual magazines to advertise. The dealerships seemed to think that their sales were being affected in a negative way. Last I heard, the company was not going to make any changes in their marketing choices.
I have never sold a car to someone the first day I met them ever. I normaly don't sell a car to a client in the first week that I met them. Last month only two of the cars I sold were sold to people that even came in that month.
Everyone else were people that originaly came in a month or two ago. One woman in particular came in almost a year ago and I was in semi-regular contact with her for the entire year before she decided now was the time to buy.
--jjf
have been looking for a used commuter car in the 8 to 10K range for a few weeks and my search has taken me to several established dealers in South Florida with large used car inventories. On top of the prices of the car, every dealer I visited has a "dealer fee" of $499 to $699. When you ask the salesman to explain the fee, they can't. Typical responses include, "It's pre-printed on the contract." "All dealers charge it". "Don't try to negotiate it." One sales manager claimed the fee was to offset the hundreds of dollars they spend reconditioning their trades before re-selling them. I pointed out to him that one car I looked at on his lot had a chipped windshield, door dings and a large stain on the carpet. He claimed that was normal wear and tear for a used car.
Is this a regional thing to south florida or is this standard practice accross the country? I feel that a $500 to $600 "dealer fee" on an 8 to 10K used car is really excessive. I'm interested to hear responses to this.
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