Speaking of Ford--- They were just given an award for sponsoring family-friendly television programming (advertising in the gay magazines doesn't count for this award.)
Let's all go down to the showroom and reward them by buying some Fords. Meet ya there. :P
Hey all I'm a brand new poster, so I apologize if this doesn't show up in the right place. Anyway, I think anyone would agree that purchasing a new car in alomost any circumstance is a luxury. Having a car is definetly a requirement, but nobody has to buy new (like jlawrence01 said) to fill the utility of needing a vehicle. So the question comes to not what you need, but how much luxury you are *willing* to afford. On how much you want to take from other aspects of your life
The reason I buy new is because I don't know the history of a used vehicle and don't want to deal with early repairs, etc. You are only buying someone elses problems when buying used in my opinion.
Someone mentioned used cars value in a previous post and I thought i'd ask... Does it matter when trading in a vehicle that you can provide every stick of paper regarding every bit of service that you had done to the car in trade in value? I have been keeping every service receipt documenting everything that was done to my car since new. I think it would matter if the car was sold privately, but what about at the dealer?
Yes, it does matter a great deal on a private sale. On a new car trade it seems to depend on the dealer but most (perhaps a vast majority) new car dealers just throw the documentation away.
You are only buying someone elses problems when buying used in my opinion.
A legitimate point of view. However, when buying a relatively new secondhand vehicle, say from six to eighteen months old, the inital niggles will have already been taken care of and there is sufficient warranty remaining to cover any major problems that may emerge. The initial depreciation hit has already taken place, and in fact there may well be an economic argument for always buying a six month old vehicle and selling it at the end of the warranty period.
On the other hand, saying "I only buy new for the same reason that I don't buy underwear at thrift stores", is an equally legitimate argument. :shades:
A legitimate point of view. However, when buying a relatively new secondhand vehicle, say from six to eighteen months old, the inital niggles will have already been taken care of and there is sufficient warranty remaining to cover any major problems that may emerge.
I know people that but a brand new car every year, Even though they only have 20k miles or less I would avoid them like the plague. These people do NOTHING in the way of maintence. Their rational is that they don't care because they will only have the car a very short time. Would you buy a year old car that has 17k miles on it and never had an oil change?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You can buy a used car for half price and get someone else's problems or you can pay full price and get a whole brand new set of fresh problems of your very own! LOL
Every used car stands on it's own. Some are great values and others are nest of snakes. Do your research and check them close.
...and yes, to a quality dealer, used vehicle mainteneance records can be a very beneficial item. In 20 + years at a dealership I have never "thrown away" any used vehicle maint. docs. :P
Would you buy a year old car that has 17k miles on it and never had an oil change?
Not if I was planning to keep it for the next ten years. However, no immediate damage should have been done, though the engine will have incurred additional wear that is likely to shorten its overall lifespan.
So, assuming that the price was right, if I was keeping it for the next three to five years, or it was to be a grocery getter/runaround, I wouldn't have a problem.
Why make things difficult though? Older people (around here) often change their ride every year. The local Ford dealer, for instance, has a lot filled with low mileage, dealer serviced (probably only once or twice, as less than 10K), cream puffs that literally get used only for the golf course, the store and church.
The downside though, is that the blinker bulbs are usually heavily worn! :shades:
The reason I buy new is because I don't know the history of a used vehicle and don't want to deal with early repairs, etc. You are only buying someone elses problems when buying used in my opinion.
You said in your opinion, because in my opinion if you know how to go about buying used cars they are by far the most economical way to buy a car especially if you buy from an individual.
Up until 2005 and then again in 2006 the last new car I bought was a 1968 Oldsmobile. I never had anymore problems, with used cars, for the mileage they had on them than if I had purchased new. If I knew the 80' Buick Park Avenue that I bought, from a private individual, in 1983 with 16,800 miles was going to be as good as it was (had it until 1997) I would have bought at least six more and stored them.
The only reason I bought new in 2005 and 2006 was that the difference between new and used was only a couple thousand dollars and what I wanted when I needed a car was not available at the time and believe me I looked.
So, you see, we have a different 'opinion' on this subject.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yeah we are not allowed to leave those things in the car. Just can't do it. For the Rovers we willhave an electronic history of the service but that is it.
We bought our 2003 Acura RSX for $20300 OTD, so the car cost about $19600 before taxes, tags, etc.
Based on the info here at Edmunds, a used car like ours would cost at least $16000 at a dealer, and probably more.
Personally, I think that is way too much to pay for a 3-year old car like ours. I guess a clean 3-year old car can look like a new one, so that must be why they can sell for such a high price.
Bobst, how do you know what the purchase price of a used car like yours would be? Wouldn’t you have to make an offer in writing and be allowed to leave the dealer’s lot, before you knew your price was too low?
By the way, I love your method. It has changed my entire way of thinking about buying cars.
One reason to buy used is that your needs and/or desires have changed before your current vehicle is worn out. Exchange one used car for another which serves you better, at an affordable cost.
I like the idea of selecting a vehicle that you really like, buying new, and keeping it for a long, long time. My wife and I have done that with four cars, always buying new until now. On the other hand, sometimes identifying in advance what you will like for the next 10 years is hard. Circumstances change or desires change. Two years ago, over a period of about a year, we replaced three cars with used. Due to severe back problems, my wife needed a more comfortable ride, so a 2-year old Honda Accord was replaced with a 1-year old Toyota Avalon XL. I wanted something fun, so an inherited and banged-up 7-year old Honda Accord was replaced with 10-year old Mazda Miata. We both wanted AWD for bad weather, so a 12-year old Toyota Camry Wagon was replaced with a 2-year old Subaru Outback Wagon LL Bean. None of these changes was mechanically necessary, but I’m glad I made them. Considering desires as well as needs, each of the new cars has distinctive features which serve us better than the old.
In light of what I have learned from reading these forums, I’m sure I could have done a bit better on two of the deals. Still, none of the used car prices was unreasonable by the time I wrote the check, although one started way too high. If I had purchased new cars instead of used, I estimate that I would have paid at least $28,000 more. :sick:
I have the philosophy that buying used is just buying someone elses problems. So mostly, I buy new and keep'em for their warranty period (The long distance driver). I do have a 2000 model yr. vehicle that will be 7 years old in October, it only has 34,000 miles and I'll probably keep it until it's 10 yrs old.
On the other hand... my new SUV will be replace in 3 yrs even though it has a 4 yr. 50,000 mile warranty. I'm thinking that selling it with a year warranty left on it will give me more money at trade time. Trading one SUV for another SUV should be a wash as they are like selling wilted lettuce (as Terry [who we never see anymore] would say).
Mark156 :P
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
One reason to buy used is that your needs and/or desires have changed before your current vehicle is worn out.
That can happen with a used car.
On the other hand, sometimes identifying in advance what you will like for the next 10 years is hard.
Its not that hard, unless there is a major lifestyle change in the next ten years what I would buy today would suffice the next ten years. Plus many lifestyle changes can be predicted. Back when I was in my 30's but still single I bought a more "family" type sedan knowing that more and more of the women I would be dating would have kids. Well before I got rid of that car I was married with two kids.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree with you but with the philosophy of if its still trouble free why get rid of it. My current daily drive has close to 140K on it and is still running great, so why get rid of it and start making car payments?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Personally, I think that is way too much to pay for a 3-year old car like ours. I guess a clean 3-year old car can look like a new one, so that must be why they can sell for such a high price.
Bob,
You and I usually see eye to eye on car buying but we will have to agree to disagree on whether to buy new or used. As I said in my post 3311, I have bought used for most of my life and would have again if I could have. When the difference is only a couple thousand dollars today (2006), I agree, you should buy new. When I was buying used back in the 70’s and 80’s, I was saving 3 or 4 thousand dollars. That was a pretty good discount back then for a 2 or 3 year old car and I was buying nice cars with low mileage that were pretty reliable (as reliable as you could expect in those days).
Allow me to tell a fairly short story:
Just last month my youngest son was all set to buy a new 2006 Mazda 6. He works for a company that does business with the Big 3 domestic guys and he gets the employee discount on any of them and any companies that the Big 3 has interests in, nice deal, I know. However, at the last minute he decides to do an internet search to see if a 2005 Mazda 6 is out there, somewhere, reasonably close. To make a long story short he found the one he wanted color/options just like the 2006 he was ready to pounce on but it was in Columbus Ohio (we live in the Pittsburgh PA area). After some negotiating over the phone he strikes a deal that is $5200 less than his employee price. He figured and I agreed with him, that it was a pretty good deal even if he didn’t get employee pricing and worth buying used even though it would have 18K + miles on it by the time he got it home. I believe he has the remainder of a 40K mile warranty but don't hold me to this, I could be wrong here and if I am I'm sure a Mazda guy will correct me on this. So, just like when you buy new you can also do well buying used when you do your research. To top it off his wife likes it too, now how can you beat that?
Thanks for listening,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My current daily drive has close to 140K on it and is still running great, so why get rid of it and start making car payments?
Snake.. I might keep my 2000 E430 longer than 10 years if it's running good. But, I need a car that I can jump in and run out of town if the need arises without worrying about mechanical trouble. A 10 year old car is old enough and mine will have about 50,000 miles or less on it by then so it should still have some value. My current mileage average is 4,900 miles a year on that car.
Mark156
PS. I haven't had a car payment in over 17 years. :surprise:
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
jmonroe, the way I look at it, your son is buying an almost three year old car with 18,000 miles. I would rather buy a 2007 Mazda with the employee discount and know that the car will have all of it's regular maintenance and how it is driven.
An employee discount is a great buy for a brand spanking new 2007 car with zero miles. Just my opinion.
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Since it is a bit slow, I'll give you some highlights of a long distance trek in a Pinto.
As mentioned before, a college friend decided to follow what he thought was the love of his life to San Francisco. I was recruited to go along for the ride. I was 19 at the time. We were living in Oxford OH, attending Miami U. He had a beat up, rust bucket pinto as the mode of trasportation. Can't remember what year it was, but it didn't matter. Speedometer and odometer didn't work. And, we had to put at least a qt of oil in it at every gas stop. Going through the Rockies, the altitude as well as the sputtering engine, wouldn't get the car over an estimated 20 MPH...with the accelerator floored. Thought we would be stranded a couple of times in the mountains in some of the most beautiful, and most desolate of places, I've ever seen.
But, we made it.
We got to San Francisco, only to find that his "love" had already moved in with another guy. So much for her being my friend's "life's love". He wanted to turn right around and come home. I wasn't in any mood for that given we had just driven 3 days to get there. The Pinto also served as our sleeping quarters during the ride out. I could only afford 4 nights of hotel rooms anyway. So, we bummed around the Bay Area for a few days. Pinto finally threw a rod somewhere in Oakland. We left it dead on the side of the road. Pulled our backpacks out of the back and proceeded to "hitch" a ride. He hitched to the nearest motel. I hitched to the nearest bus depot (all the money I had barely covered bus fair with very little left over for food). CA grew on him over the few days we were there, so he decided to stay after all (and is still there to this day). I decided to come home and finish school.
Upon arriving at the bus station, I learned that the next bus out going my way wasn't leaving for another 9 hours. Settled down on a station bench to "nap". That is, until somebody woke me by kicking my feet. Groggy, I look up after being startled and smell a mixture of Thunderbird, BO and urine on a guy who appeared to be as greasy as a pound of bacon. He said something to the effect that I was on his bench. I looked around and the depot had probably 6 other empty benches. I told him to find another spot and leaned back to finish my nap. Again, the same guy starts kicking my feet yelling for me to get off his bench.
Not being in a particularly good mood, I bolted up and shoved the guy about 3-4 feet away from me. He fell on his rear and began crying. By this time, some security guy comes up to me and asks if I'd like to have the cops called on ME. Incredulously, I told him what the bum was doing. Mr. Security said the guy was homeless (the bus station being the closest thing he had to a home), but employed at the station as a general "clean up" guy. The bench I was on was "his bench". Deciding it wasn't worth the hassle, I picked up my back pack and moved to the bench facing the one I was sitting. The bum lays down where I was originally sitting, still whimpering, and proceeds to stick out his tongue at me before passing out in an obvoiusly drunken stupor.
...the way I look at it, your son is buying an almost three year old car with 18,000 miles. I would rather buy a 2007 Mazda with the employee discount and know that the car will have all of it's regular maintenance and how it is driven.
Mark,
The 2007 Mazda 6 is not even out now, to the best of my knowledge, and when it is out a 2005 will be a full two years old not “an almost three year old car” but maybe there is a technicality here that I’m not aware of , so let’s talk about the maintenance of the car my son bought.
When he was negotiating over the phone he asked if the car was bought at that dealership and was told that it was. He asked about the maintenance and the salesman said it was well maintained and they have the maintenance records to prove it. As you can imagine, he’s really starting to feel pretty good about now. When he gets to the dealership they have the computer print-out available right there on the salesman’s desk. He sees that the car had 5 oil/filter changes by the original owner and two days after they took it in on trade, they did another one to ready it for sale. Other service was; replaced left rear door power lock, replaced right rear door weather stripping (there's a story here but there's no reason to get in to it) and when they noticed that the front tires were not wearing correctly they did an alignment, put on two new front tires (Michelin’s) and that’s all that was done.
The salesman said the guy was so picky that their toddler son was never in the car because he didn’t want the car seat to dimple the leather seats (was always chauffeured around in their SUV). When my son goes out to look at the car he asked that the rear seat be removed so he could see if there were any cookie crumbs, potato chips, dried out bananas etc. hiding under there. He said he would not have asked that the seat be removed but since the salesman volunteered the information he was going to check his honesty. Sure enough, NOTHING was there so he figured the story was true or they did one heck of a good job detailing the car for sale. Either way he was very satisfied.
Since the car appeared to be in near perfect condition my son asked why they had it for almost three weeks. The salesman said he had it sold twice until the previous lookers asked about gas mileage and when they were told that it would probably run better on premium gas, they quickly asked to see the 4 cylinders that they had in stock. I guess the salesman was not going to let a sucker for a 6 cylinder that ‘might’ run better on premium gas get away.
Based on the above he will have to wait and see if he did the right thing, just like we do when we buy new. At least he has an 18K mile track record that I don’t have yet with either my 2005 or 2006 cars that I bought new.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Sure. Buying "new" guarantees absolutely nothing. Just look at all the "Problems and Solutions" boards for new car models... specifically the one titled, "2007 Toyota Camry Woes".
The question is: how much more reliable on average is a new car, as opposed to a low mileage car taken care of that is only a year or two old? In jmonroe's case it looks as if it were "almost" as safe a buy as buying new. You have a documented history of maintenance and repairs, as well as a visual inspection of car's condition.
But, I use to be one of those, I'll never buy new people. Let the other guy take the big hit in depreciation. Though it sure is nice buying new... don't get me wrong on that.
planning 10 years ahead? my kids have started inviting their friends on our vacations. we plan them around driving. that caught me by surpise. didn't expect my kids to invite someone else. didn't expect their friends to be allowed to go, either. actually, it's great. looking at moving back up the large suv. otoh, i bought a mustang 15 years ago and dreamed of my kids driving it. that just happened with my oldest this year.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Sure. Buying "new" guarantees absolutely nothing. Just look at all the "Problems and Solutions" boards for new car models... specifically the one titled, "2007 Toyota Camry Woes".
In my fleet, nearly all the vehicles including the Lexus end up in the shop at least once a year for a warranty issue.
And then there is the Saab ... that driver has been in the dealership so many times that he and the mechanic send each other Christmas cards. No kidding.
if your saab experience is anything like mine was, the dealer techs induced many of those repeat visits. as soon as i got the inspection sign off on our lease, i turned the car back in to the dealer, and walked back to work. i did really want to like that car, but felt better walking away from it.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
jmonroe, it sounds like your son will have a nice car. The reason why it's a 3 year old car, is that the 2005's came out in 2004 and now the 2007's are hitting the streets, hence, 3 years old (Terry explained this over in Real World Trade in Values).
Used is fine, but if people like me didn't buy new, what would you guys do for used cars? :P :P
I know that it costs a little more to drive a new vehicle but that's just the way that I am. I want the odometer to have less than 20 miles and you can't beat that fresh new car smell! I know all that has a "cost" and I'm willing to pay for it.
Several years ago, there was a family interviewed on TV that tried to save every penny where ever they could. They were kind of "amish" but not truly as they have 2 vehicles and a big farm house. The wife made all of her clothes as she did for her kids. They didn't have a TV, dishwasher, etc.
They figured out that it was cheaper to buy brand new vehicles and keep them until the wheels fell off. At the time, they had two new Suburbans. They had ways of saving money by recycling things that I never thought of. They also had a large family of 6 or 8 kids.
My Uncle (I've mentioned this story a few times) is 78 yrs. old and bought his first new car in 1949. He is now on his sixth car. He drives'm until they can't go anymore and then pays cash for a new one. The list is as follows...
1949 Chevrolet sedan 1953 Chevrolet Belair sedan 1963 Chevrolet Impala coupe 1974 Dodge Dart coupe 1988 Chevrolet Celebrity sedan 2002 Chevrolet Impala sedan
Everyone has their threshold of depreciation that they are willing to accept. I just like buying new. (accept for my antique, I bought a 1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III, purchased in 1998).
Mark
PS. jmonroe... you don't have your cars listed on your ID page... what 2005 and 2006 cars did you purchase?
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Used is fine, but if people like me didn't buy new, what would you guys do for used cars?
This is a very old argument and the answer is we would buy new cause we’d have to, just like I buy my underwear. I don't hate new cars I've owned four so far.
... you don't have your cars listed on your ID page... what 2005 and 2006 cars did you purchase?
I just never bothered to list the cars I own in my Bio, I hope this isn’t a problem for the readers of this thread. As for the cars I own now, I’m insulted that you haven’t paid attention to my previous posts sooooo I’ll repeat:
if your saab experience is anything like mine was, the dealer techs induced many of those repeat visits.
At first, I thought your comment was crazy. However, you MIGHT be right. As soon as the warranty period was over with, the problems have become less frequent.
jmonroe....I was a bit of a hot head when I was younger. Like most, I knew everything about everything....everybody else was wrong and I was always right.
Amazing what a few decades of life did for me to realize how little I really know.
First thing I checked on the boat were the fuses. All's fine there. There's a short somewhere, but as all things electrical, it's not going to be easy to find. Went for a cruise Saturday but docked at dusk. Stayed overnight on board....a/c works, inside lights work, stove & fridges work, pumps work, etc....most importantly, the "head" works. Just having problems with the running lights. Found out yesterday the anchor light is out, too (on the same circuit), so I can't anchor in open water.
When I get the time, I'll post some pics in CAR SPACE of it (tried to do that before, but having problems).
Next weekend I'll post about the clown with the hard hat and some of the the other folks I met on the "bus trip".
Amazing what a few decades of life did for me to realize how little I really know.
Just like all of us, as you got older you got dumber.
Found out yesterday the anchor light is out, too (on the same circuit), so I can't anchor in open water.
Came across someone like that once anchored in open water on a calm overcast night, if I wasn't bored and started to play with the radar we would have cut them right in two.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It didn't take me quite that long, but I am still learning.
When I was 18 my father was one of the dumbest people I knew, by the time I was 22 I couldn't believe how smart he had become in just 4 years.
There's a short somewhere...
I don't mean to insult your trouble shooting skills but my experience with shorts is that they blow fuses or make other electrical stuff work strangely. Open circuits turn things off.
Just a thought. Either way, I don't envy you trying to find the problem.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just like all of us, as you got older you got dumber.
snake....ain't that the truth......LOL!
When the sun goes down in open water, you definitely want to be lit up for the very reason you state. That's doubly true when anchored.....day or night.
j.....you'd think a fuse would trip woudln't you.....that's what's got me puzzled. May have to forego any night running this late in the season and wait until the off-season dry dock to find out what's wrong.
Back to cars....my sister is shopping for her daughter (my niece) for that first car. Usually, my sister takes me with her when she's shopping for any vehicle. Not this time. She said she went to 3 different dealers. All of them asked her if she needed anyone else to make a purchase decision. She was insulted by that (as well she should have been). Being the "smarter" older brother, I also told her to check insurance rates before she decided to buy something. Talk about a shock to her. She was thinking of buying a used Mustang for my niece.....that is until she got the insurance quotes for a 16 year old.
Oh I know what you mean, when my son started driving he wanted to get his own car so he started looking at used cars. Well he found a used Mitsubishi Eclipse at a used car lot that the previous owner has souped up and super-mega-duper charged. First thing I though of was "man there goes my insurance rates". Also looking at that beast and seeing what they did there was no way my kid would be driving that.
To the salesmans credit he did lie through his teeth to say that someone who was looking at it the day before just called up to say he would buy it and it was no longer for sale. That saved me from the "you're getting this car over my dead body" argument that was going to happen.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
snake....that's exactly what is happening with my niece. She's got her heart set on something "sporty". 16 years old, sporty 2-door car=major insuance fees. Knowing my sister, she's more about appearances than practicality, though. I recommended getting a used civic, corolla, or my personal preference for her, a nice used malibu. Doubt any of those cars will be on their shopping list, though.
I don't mean to be funny but are they ready for sale? The reason I ask is that when I asked two dealers in the Pittsburgh PA area if they had any 2007 Mazda 6's for sale, one said they didn't have any yet but they would be in within a week and the other said they have a couple but they're not supposed to sell them yet but they would give me a "fantastic deal on a 2006". Some how I knew at least one of them was going to say that.
Is this one of those cases where the factory hasn't authorized the sale in a given region?
Thanks,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Comments
They were just given an award for sponsoring family-friendly television programming (advertising in the gay magazines doesn't count for this award.)
Let's all go down to the showroom and reward them by buying some Fords. Meet ya there. :P
The reason I buy new is because I don't know the history of a used vehicle and don't want to deal with early repairs, etc. You are only buying someone elses problems when buying used in my opinion.
A legitimate point of view. However, when buying a relatively new secondhand vehicle, say from six to eighteen months old, the inital niggles will have already been taken care of and there is sufficient warranty remaining to cover any major problems that may emerge. The initial depreciation hit has already taken place, and in fact there may well be an economic argument for always buying a six month old vehicle and selling it at the end of the warranty period.
On the other hand, saying "I only buy new for the same reason that I don't buy underwear at thrift stores", is an equally legitimate argument. :shades:
I know people that but a brand new car every year, Even though they only have 20k miles or less I would avoid them like the plague. These people do NOTHING in the way of maintence. Their rational is that they don't care because they will only have the car a very short time. Would you buy a year old car that has 17k miles on it and never had an oil change?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Every used car stands on it's own. Some are great values and others are nest of snakes. Do your research and check them close.
...and yes, to a quality dealer, used vehicle mainteneance records can be a very beneficial item. In 20 + years at a dealership I have never "thrown away" any used vehicle maint. docs. :P
Not if I was planning to keep it for the next ten years. However, no immediate damage should have been done, though the engine will have incurred additional wear that is likely to shorten its overall lifespan.
So, assuming that the price was right, if I was keeping it for the next three to five years, or it was to be a grocery getter/runaround, I wouldn't have a problem.
Why make things difficult though? Older people (around here) often change their ride every year. The local Ford dealer, for instance, has a lot filled with low mileage, dealer serviced (probably only once or twice, as less than 10K), cream puffs that literally get used only for the golf course, the store and church.
The downside though, is that the blinker bulbs are usually heavily worn! :shades:
You said in your opinion, because in my opinion if you know how to go about buying used cars they are by far the most economical way to buy a car especially if you buy from an individual.
Up until 2005 and then again in 2006 the last new car I bought was a 1968 Oldsmobile. I never had anymore problems, with used cars, for the mileage they had on them than if I had purchased new. If I knew the 80' Buick Park Avenue that I bought, from a private individual, in 1983 with 16,800 miles was going to be as good as it was (had it until 1997) I would have bought at least six more and stored them.
The only reason I bought new in 2005 and 2006 was that the difference between new and used was only a couple thousand dollars and what I wanted when I needed a car was not available at the time and believe me I looked.
So, you see, we have a different 'opinion' on this subject.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
With today's privacy concerns, you can get a VERY upset customer on your hands if the new onner or a prospective buyer gives them a call!
Based on the info here at Edmunds, a used car like ours would cost at least $16000 at a dealer, and probably more.
Personally, I think that is way too much to pay for a 3-year old car like ours. I guess a clean 3-year old car can look like a new one, so that must be why they can sell for such a high price.
By the way, I love your method. It has changed my entire way of thinking about buying cars.
I like the idea of selecting a vehicle that you really like, buying new, and keeping it for a long, long time. My wife and I have done that with four cars, always buying new until now. On the other hand, sometimes identifying in advance what you will like for the next 10 years is hard. Circumstances change or desires change. Two years ago, over a period of about a year, we replaced three cars with used. Due to severe back problems, my wife needed a more comfortable ride, so a 2-year old Honda Accord was replaced with a 1-year old Toyota Avalon XL. I wanted something fun, so an inherited and banged-up 7-year old Honda Accord was replaced with 10-year old Mazda Miata. We both wanted AWD for bad weather, so a 12-year old Toyota Camry Wagon was replaced with a 2-year old Subaru Outback Wagon LL Bean. None of these changes was mechanically necessary, but I’m glad I made them. Considering desires as well as needs, each of the new cars has distinctive features which serve us better than the old.
In light of what I have learned from reading these forums, I’m sure I could have done a bit better on two of the deals. Still, none of the used car prices was unreasonable by the time I wrote the check, although one started way too high. If I had purchased new cars instead of used, I estimate that I would have paid at least $28,000 more. :sick:
So what are you waiting for?
tidester, host
On the other hand... my new SUV will be replace in 3 yrs even though it has a 4 yr. 50,000 mile warranty. I'm thinking that selling it with a year warranty left on it will give me more money at trade time. Trading one SUV for another SUV should be a wash as they are like selling wilted lettuce (as Terry [who we never see anymore] would say).
Mark156 :P
That can happen with a used car.
On the other hand, sometimes identifying in advance what you will like for the next 10 years is hard.
Its not that hard, unless there is a major lifestyle change in the next ten years what I would buy today would suffice the next ten years. Plus many lifestyle changes can be predicted. Back when I was in my 30's but still single I bought a more "family" type sedan knowing that more and more of the women I would be dating would have kids. Well before I got rid of that car I was married with two kids.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Bob,
You and I usually see eye to eye on car buying but we will have to agree to disagree on whether to buy new or used. As I said in my post 3311, I have bought used for most of my life and would have again if I could have. When the difference is only a couple thousand dollars today (2006), I agree, you should buy new. When I was buying used back in the 70’s and 80’s, I was saving 3 or 4 thousand dollars. That was a pretty good discount back then for a 2 or 3 year old car and I was buying nice cars with low mileage that were pretty reliable (as reliable as you could expect in those days).
Allow me to tell a fairly short story:
Just last month my youngest son was all set to buy a new 2006 Mazda 6. He works for a company that does business with the Big 3 domestic guys and he gets the employee discount on any of them and any companies that the Big 3 has interests in, nice deal, I know. However, at the last minute he decides to do an internet search to see if a 2005 Mazda 6 is out there, somewhere, reasonably close. To make a long story short he found the one he wanted color/options just like the 2006 he was ready to pounce on but it was in Columbus Ohio (we live in the Pittsburgh PA area). After some negotiating over the phone he strikes a deal that is $5200 less than his employee price. He figured and I agreed with him, that it was a pretty good deal even if he didn’t get employee pricing and worth buying used even though it would have 18K + miles on it by the time he got it home. I believe he has the remainder of a 40K mile warranty but don't hold me to this, I could be wrong here and if I am I'm sure a Mazda guy will correct me on this. So, just like when you buy new you can also do well buying used when you do your research. To top it off his wife likes it too, now how can you beat that?
Thanks for listening,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Snake.. I might keep my 2000 E430 longer than 10 years if it's running good. But, I need a car that I can jump in and run out of town if the need arises without worrying about mechanical trouble. A 10 year old car is old enough and mine will have about 50,000 miles or less on it by then so it should still have some value. My current mileage average is 4,900 miles a year on that car.
Mark156
PS. I haven't had a car payment in over 17 years. :surprise:
An employee discount is a great buy for a brand spanking new 2007 car with zero miles. Just my opinion.
Mark156
As mentioned before, a college friend decided to follow what he thought was the love of his life to San Francisco. I was recruited to go along for the ride. I was 19 at the time. We were living in Oxford OH, attending Miami U. He had a beat up, rust bucket pinto as the mode of trasportation. Can't remember what year it was, but it didn't matter. Speedometer and odometer didn't work. And, we had to put at least a qt of oil in it at every gas stop. Going through the Rockies, the altitude as well as the sputtering engine, wouldn't get the car over an estimated 20 MPH...with the accelerator floored. Thought we would be stranded a couple of times in the mountains in some of the most beautiful, and most desolate of places, I've ever seen.
But, we made it.
We got to San Francisco, only to find that his "love" had already moved in with another guy. So much for her being my friend's "life's love". He wanted to turn right around and come home. I wasn't in any mood for that given we had just driven 3 days to get there. The Pinto also served as our sleeping quarters during the ride out. I could only afford 4 nights of hotel rooms anyway. So, we bummed around the Bay Area for a few days. Pinto finally threw a rod somewhere in Oakland. We left it dead on the side of the road. Pulled our backpacks out of the back and proceeded to "hitch" a ride. He hitched to the nearest motel. I hitched to the nearest bus depot (all the money I had barely covered bus fair with very little left over for food). CA grew on him over the few days we were there, so he decided to stay after all (and is still there to this day). I decided to come home and finish school.
Upon arriving at the bus station, I learned that the next bus out going my way wasn't leaving for another 9 hours. Settled down on a station bench to "nap". That is, until somebody woke me by kicking my feet. Groggy, I look up after being startled and smell a mixture of Thunderbird, BO and urine on a guy who appeared to be as greasy as a pound of bacon. He said something to the effect that I was on his bench. I looked around and the depot had probably 6 other empty benches. I told him to find another spot and leaned back to finish my nap. Again, the same guy starts kicking my feet yelling for me to get off his bench.
Not being in a particularly good mood, I bolted up and shoved the guy about 3-4 feet away from me. He fell on his rear and began crying. By this time, some security guy comes up to me and asks if I'd like to have the cops called on ME. Incredulously, I told him what the bum was doing. Mr. Security said the guy was homeless (the bus station being the closest thing he had to a home), but employed at the station as a general "clean up" guy. The bench I was on was "his bench". Deciding it wasn't worth the hassle, I picked up my back pack and moved to the bench facing the one I was sitting. The bum lays down where I was originally sitting, still whimpering, and proceeds to stick out his tongue at me before passing out in an obvoiusly drunken stupor.
I stand corrected. Planning for 10 years, selecting a vehicle and buying it aren't hard at all. My bad. I get it now.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mark,
The 2007 Mazda 6 is not even out now, to the best of my knowledge, and when it is out a 2005 will be a full two years old not “an almost three year old car” but maybe there is a technicality here that I’m not aware of , so let’s talk about the maintenance of the car my son bought.
When he was negotiating over the phone he asked if the car was bought at that dealership and was told that it was. He asked about the maintenance and the salesman said it was well maintained and they have the maintenance records to prove it. As you can imagine, he’s really starting to feel pretty good about now. When he gets to the dealership they have the computer print-out available right there on the salesman’s desk. He sees that the car had 5 oil/filter changes by the original owner and two days after they took it in on trade, they did another one to ready it for sale. Other service was; replaced left rear door power lock, replaced right rear door weather stripping (there's a story here but there's no reason to get in to it) and when they noticed that the front tires were not wearing correctly they did an alignment, put on two new front tires (Michelin’s) and that’s all that was done.
The salesman said the guy was so picky that their toddler son was never in the car because he didn’t want the car seat to dimple the leather seats (was always chauffeured around in their SUV). When my son goes out to look at the car he asked that the rear seat be removed so he could see if there were any cookie crumbs, potato chips, dried out bananas etc. hiding under there. He said he would not have asked that the seat be removed but since the salesman volunteered the information he was going to check his honesty. Sure enough, NOTHING was there so he figured the story was true or they did one heck of a good job detailing the car for sale. Either way he was very satisfied.
Since the car appeared to be in near perfect condition my son asked why they had it for almost three weeks. The salesman said he had it sold twice until the previous lookers asked about gas mileage and when they were told that it would probably run better on premium gas, they quickly asked to see the 4 cylinders that they had in stock. I guess the salesman was not going to let a sucker for a 6 cylinder that ‘might’ run better on premium gas get away.
Based on the above he will have to wait and see if he did the right thing, just like we do when we buy new. At least he has an 18K mile track record that I don’t have yet with either my 2005 or 2006 cars that I bought new.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yeah....tell me about it......not the smartest thing I've ever done.......
The question is: how much more reliable on average is a new car, as opposed to a low mileage car taken care of that is only a year or two old? In jmonroe's case it looks as if it were "almost" as safe a buy as buying new. You have a documented history of maintenance and repairs, as well as a visual inspection of car's condition.
But, I use to be one of those, I'll never buy new people. Let the other guy take the big hit in depreciation. Though it sure is nice buying new... don't get me wrong on that.
otoh, i bought a mustang 15 years ago and dreamed of my kids driving it. that just happened with my oldest this year.
In my fleet, nearly all the vehicles including the Lexus end up in the shop at least once a year for a warranty issue.
And then there is the Saab ... that driver has been in the dealership so many times that he and the mechanic send each other Christmas cards. No kidding.
as soon as i got the inspection sign off on our lease, i turned the car back in to the dealer, and walked back to work. i did really want to like that car, but felt better walking away from it.
Used is fine, but if people like me didn't buy new, what would you guys do for used cars? :P :P
I know that it costs a little more to drive a new vehicle but that's just the way that I am. I want the odometer to have less than 20 miles and you can't beat that fresh new car smell! I know all that has a "cost" and I'm willing to pay for it.
Several years ago, there was a family interviewed on TV that tried to save every penny where ever they could. They were kind of "amish" but not truly as they have 2 vehicles and a big farm house. The wife made all of her clothes as she did for her kids. They didn't have a TV, dishwasher, etc.
They figured out that it was cheaper to buy brand new vehicles and keep them until the wheels fell off. At the time, they had two new Suburbans. They had ways of saving money by recycling things that I never thought of. They also had a large family of 6 or 8 kids.
My Uncle (I've mentioned this story a few times) is 78 yrs. old and bought his first new car in 1949. He is now on his sixth car. He drives'm until they can't go anymore and then pays cash for a new one. The list is as follows...
1949 Chevrolet sedan
1953 Chevrolet Belair sedan
1963 Chevrolet Impala coupe
1974 Dodge Dart coupe
1988 Chevrolet Celebrity sedan
2002 Chevrolet Impala sedan
Everyone has their threshold of depreciation that they are willing to accept. I just like buying new. (accept for my antique, I bought a 1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III, purchased in 1998).
Mark
PS. jmonroe... you don't have your cars listed on your ID page... what 2005 and 2006 cars did you purchase?
This is a very old argument and the answer is we would buy new cause we’d have to, just like I buy my underwear. I don't hate new cars I've owned four so far.
... you don't have your cars listed on your ID page... what 2005 and 2006 cars did you purchase?
I just never bothered to list the cars I own in my Bio, I hope this isn’t a problem for the readers of this thread. As for the cars I own now, I’m insulted that you haven’t paid attention to my previous posts sooooo I’ll repeat:
2005 Hyundai XG 350 (mine)
2006 Hyundai Sonata LX (wifeee)
I guess if I updated my Bio I wouldn’t have to repeat myself, huh. Is this what you’re getting at?
Always nice to talk at you,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
British Rover.. don't you have some new sales stories?
Mark
Good tale. I thought you were going to tell the one where the homeless guy messed-up the college boy.
...I bolted up and shoved the guy about 3-4 feet away from me. He fell on his rear and began crying.
I don't think any of us knew you were such a bully in your younger days.
BTW, did you get the boat wiring fixed? Don't tell me it was the FUSE.
Tell another one next weekend,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
At first, I thought your comment was crazy. However, you MIGHT be right. As soon as the warranty period was over with, the problems have become less frequent.
Amazing what a few decades of life did for me to realize how little I really know.
First thing I checked on the boat were the fuses. All's fine there. There's a short somewhere, but as all things electrical, it's not going to be easy to find. Went for a cruise Saturday but docked at dusk. Stayed overnight on board....a/c works, inside lights work, stove & fridges work, pumps work, etc....most importantly, the "head" works. Just having problems with the running lights. Found out yesterday the anchor light is out, too (on the same circuit), so I can't anchor in open water.
When I get the time, I'll post some pics in CAR SPACE of it (tried to do that before, but having problems).
Next weekend I'll post about the clown with the hard hat and some of the the other folks I met on the "bus trip".
Just like all of us, as you got older you got dumber.
Found out yesterday the anchor light is out, too (on the same circuit), so I can't anchor in open water.
Came across someone like that once anchored in open water on a calm overcast night, if I wasn't bored and started to play with the radar we would have cut them right in two.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
got a half dozen on the lot already.
It didn't take me quite that long, but I am still learning.
When I was 18 my father was one of the dumbest people I knew, by the time I was 22 I couldn't believe how smart he had become in just 4 years.
There's a short somewhere...
I don't mean to insult your trouble shooting skills but my experience with shorts is that they blow fuses or make other electrical stuff work strangely. Open circuits turn things off.
Just a thought. Either way, I don't envy you trying to find the problem.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
snake....ain't that the truth......LOL!
When the sun goes down in open water, you definitely want to be lit up for the very reason you state. That's doubly true when anchored.....day or night.
j.....you'd think a fuse would trip woudln't you.....that's what's got me puzzled. May have to forego any night running this late in the season and wait until the off-season dry dock to find out what's wrong.
Back to cars....my sister is shopping for her daughter (my niece) for that first car. Usually, my sister takes me with her when she's shopping for any vehicle. Not this time. She said she went to 3 different dealers. All of them asked her if she needed anyone else to make a purchase decision. She was insulted by that (as well she should have been). Being the "smarter" older brother, I also told her to check insurance rates before she decided to buy something. Talk about a shock to her. She was thinking of buying a used Mustang for my niece.....that is until she got the insurance quotes for a 16 year old.
To the salesmans credit he did lie through his teeth to say that someone who was looking at it the day before just called up to say he would buy it and it was no longer for sale. That saved me from the "you're getting this car over my dead body" argument that was going to happen.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As an FYI for those who are interested, got a pic of Cap'n GG at the helm.......http://www.carspace.com/graphicguy
OK, now that I know that you really have a boat, when can I go for a ride and don't tell me when I fix the lights.
Looks nice,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
J....you're welcome aboard anytime. You don't even have to work for it....LOL!
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I don't mean to be funny but are they ready for sale? The reason I ask is that when I asked two dealers in the Pittsburgh PA area if they had any 2007 Mazda 6's for sale, one said they didn't have any yet but they would be in within a week and the other said they have a couple but they're not supposed to sell them yet but they would give me a "fantastic deal on a 2006". Some how I knew at least one of them was going to say that.
Is this one of those cases where the factory hasn't authorized the sale in a given region?
Thanks,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl