Stories from the Sales Frontlines

jmonroe

Well... hey! I want a ride, too...

graph,

If your reading this, it sounds like the beginning of a party. What should 'kyfdx' and I bring?

Sorry I asked in a public forum.

jmonroe

audia8q

Is this one of those cases where the factory hasn't authorized the sale in a given region?

They are for sale everywhere. I suspect some dealers have a few too many 2006 models and want to move them before showing the 2007's. I don't have many 2006 except for V6 models which are not exactly flying off the shelves. The 4 cyl Mazda6 have been selling very well and we ran out..many dealers need 4 cyl Mazda6 asap so they are shipping now.

driverdan

I have signed a so-called retail buyers order with a $500 deposit and am suppose to take possession in a few days. The car may have been moved from out of state to accomodate my order, although that was done before I signed any paperwork. The "non-cancelable" line foe special orders was not signed.

Now I have found a much more agressive deal being offered by another dealer, with better equipment options, so it is not something that my first dealer can match. The first dealer has no inventory.

My question is can a deal be broken anytime before taking possession even though I signed the buyers order? Do I risk losing my deposit, or does the dealer have legal recourse.

Also, if forced to take the first deal, how long can I delay taking possession and starting the lease without risking the terms changing?

thanks. You guys are the experts and us consumers just do this once every 3 or 4 years.

mazda6iguy

Sure. Buying "new" guarantees absolutely nothing. Just look at all the "Problems and Solutions" boards for new car models... specifically the one titled, "2007 Toyota Camry Woes".

At least you know how every mile was driven and by whom. You know what gas you put into it. You know who will work on it if necessary. you have every stich of paper regarding any warranty repair, etc. You also know if all the recall work or TSB's were performed. You know when you had the oil changes, etc.

jmonroe

...I don't have many 2006 except for V6 models which are not exactly flying off the shelves.

It looks like I guessed right as to why my son got a pretty good deal on a used 2005 Mazda 6, V6 (posts 3323 and 3330), am I right?

It appears when gas prices go up, people start to think economy, AGAIN.

jmonroe

mazda6iguy

My nephew bought his first car, a 2006 Toyota Corolla LE a few months ago and loves it. He just graduated college, so his ins rates are probably better than a 16 year old's.

jipster

I don't have many 2006 except for V6 models which are not exactly flying off the shelves.

Why's that? Is it because the V6 has the Ford Duratec, or because the 4 cyl is more economical?

jlawrence01

At least you know how every mile was driven and by whom.

And you pay a tremendous premium for that privilege. I will take the risk of buying a 3 yo $20k car for $7k.

biancar

You can cancel the deal, but definitely you run the risk of losing your deposit.

If the new car is worth $500 more to you, might be worth losing it, maybe.

BUT - you need to really nail down the deal with the second dealer. Could be they'll make up on the swings what they lose on the round-abouts. Ask about everything, like prep fees, financing if that's applicable, everything. Ask for a complete write-up.

Also ask the first dealer for a complete write-up, and explain that you're thinking of cancelling because of a better deal elsewhere. See if they can meet the price or throw in something else to save the deal.

Good luck.

audia8q

Couple reasons....gas mileage and no Mazda3. Alot of dealers ran out of 2006 Mazda3 and the prices of 4 cyl mazda6 with incentives ended up being lower than some Mazda3...so people moved up to the 6 when they say the prices. The gas mileage is a big part also. before gas jumped up so high we sold apx 30-40% V6's....now its around 95% 4 cyl.

jack47

My son-in-law put $500 down on a lease for a Nissan SUV...he subsequesntly got a much better deal from another dealer.

The first dealer adamently refused to return his deposit so my son-in-law wrote to the CEO (or District GM) of Nissan and the powers to be told the first dealer to return the deposit.

jack47

.....that is until she got the insurance quotes for a 16 year old.

How about a nice sporty 18 speed bike?

Studies show that the average high school student's grades will drop >10% after getting a car.

graphicguy

18-speed bike? You'll get no argument from me.

Interesting fact about a 10% drop in grades after getting a car. Don't doubt it.

jmonroe...kyfdx....I may have to put together an outing on the Ohio River for you guys.

snakeweasel

Studies show that the average high school student's grades will drop >10% after getting a car.

The question is does getting the car have that effect on their grades. Most High school students get their cars around their junior year and there fore will be taking classes that are harder than they took in the first couple of years. Hard classes means its harder to get the same grades so it is expected that grades will slip a bit.

So is it the car or a harder course load that causes that drop?

kyfdx

It is the car..

louiswei

It is the car..

I'll second that. I am not that far off from my high school days so trust me, it's the car...

snakeweasel

I would have to challenge that. As go progress through school the course do get harder and its harder to get the same grades.

While not high school my GPA in college dropped 8% from the end of my sophomore year to the end of my senior year. It wasn't from my car (I had one the first two years) but because the courses got harder.

I would hazard to guess that if you followed high school kids that don't get cars you would see similar results.

corvette

Speaking from personal experience, my grades went up after getting a car. I took a couple of AP classes, which carried a 10% bonus, so that may have also accounted for part of the increase... See, I used to be smart! :P

jack47

The question is does getting the car have that effect on their grades. Most High school students get their cars around their junior year and there fore will be taking classes that are harder than they took in the first couple of years. Hard classes means its harder to get the same grades so it is expected that grades will slip a bit.

Interesting rationalizatiom.

Sounds like something a used car salesman would say.

louiswei

I don't know what your major is but in my college students usually go from lower GPA to higher GPA as they go from freshmen to seniors.

british_rover

My grades for my last three years of college went up compared to my first two.

Of course that was probably because I switched from Engineering major to Poli Sci/Journalism/International Relations major.

tidester

Hard classes means its harder to get the same grades so it is expected that grades will slip a bit.

That is as good a rationalization as I have ever heard!

tidester, host

mikefm58

As the father of an 18 & 21 yr old, I can firmly say that it is the car. When my oldest was 16 a month before his junior year ended, he got a Mustang, and his grades tanked, I knew I should have waited until school was out. I didn't make the same mistake with the younger one, told him if his grades held up, he can get something AFTER school was out. Worked like a champ.

snakeweasel

My GPA went from 3.75 (4 point scale) after my sophomore year to a 3.45 on graduation. I had a dual major one in Accounting and one in Economics.

From what I read that is common.

louiswei

Not me, nor any of my friends. We were in aerospace engineering though.

mark156

I never had the chance for my grades to fall as I was never given a car in high school. I had to buy my own car if I wanted one... so, my grades were not affected.

Hence, I agree with Snake... it was the car that affected the grades, it would have mine. I remember in high school when another student who had a muscle Malibu (1970), spinned his tires going out of the school driveway.. I was thinking, wow, he just used 15,000 miles if rubber right there.....what a waste. :surprise

I appreciate everything I am able to get for myself because I never really had that opportunity when I was younger. I think my parents taught us a very good lesson. If you work hard, you can buy what you want. So I did.

Mark156

mazda6iguy

I remember in high school when another student who had a muscle Malibu (1970), spinned his tires going out of the school driveway.. I was thinking, wow, he just used 15,000 miles if rubber right there.....what a waste. :surprise

I remember when I graduated high school back in 1980 that on the last day of classes several kids burned rubber out of the school parking lot.

deserth8r

I got my car at the beginning of my sophmore year also, and my grades went down. I started out with straight A's my freshman year, and I barely graduated. It also has to do with the fact that I had to get a job to help pay for the car, and by my senior year I was working almost full time hours trying to pay for the car and save for college. I wrecked my car 3 months before graduating, and I had to quit my job, and I think that is pretty much what saved me from failing.

jack47

Back in Brooklyn we all got cars when we started our first year of high school.

Some got trolly cars while others wound up in subway cars.

The good old days. :P

no_clever_name

Anyone got a link to the "study?" The statement "grades went down when students got a car" doesn't tell me very much. To draw that conclusion you'd have to look at students who didn't get cars versus those who did. The age/grade is not relevant.

imidazol97

The grades go down in the typical high quality school because their time becomes tied up with social contacts and the car status thing. The second factor is that they then want to get a job to pay for the insurance and the gas costs, assuming the parents are expecting the student to "earn or work for the car" the way they should.

There is a rare exception to that. One is an Eagle Scout in our troop who now drives a hand-me-down car to school. He also works in his parents' retail store. I expect his grades won't be affected because he has shown the ability to plan and organize his time. Also I've never seen him with another student in his car. It's strictly for to and fro--it's a tool and not a social item.

michaellno

If it were up to my daughter, she never would have gotten a license or a job. My wife basically forced her to do both when she turned 16. She still maintained her grades - she was in the top 10%, in terms of GPA, of her high school graduating class of over 500 this past spring.

Like the Eagle Scout mentioned above, the car is strictly a means of transportation for her. She will have had her license for 2 years this coming November, and she's probably driven less than 10,000 miles in that time.

Now that she's in college, the car is driven even less, since so much of what she needs can be found on campus. But, it's nice for her to come home when she wants --- which she'll do this coming weekend.

tidester

To draw that conclusion you'd have to look at students who didn't get cars versus those who did.

I didn't get a car in HS and my grades went up - case closed!

Seriously, you make a great point. Without data it's all speculation.

tidester, host

graphicguy

Just to add some finality to my sister and my niece (the 16 year old) buying a car, they finally broke down and asked for my help. As I suspected, the used Malibus didn't float my niece's boat (what's with her....it's got 4 wheels and it runs....which is more than she's got now).

Talked my sister out of the used Mustangs and Camaros, much to my niece's chagrin.

Ended up with a '97 Toyota Paseo...great shape (no rust, no apparent pole encounters), auto, A/C, 80K miles, one owner....all service records (all done at local dealership) for $3,400.

The seller was a real nice lady... a retired school teacher in her '50s. She was asking $4,000. We had cash, which made the deal simple.

It's a red coupe (which made my niece happy), but has a little 4 banger that won't get my niece in any trouble. Plus, it should last her for the next 3-4 years, if not longer.

Over 24 months, insurance will cost more on it than the car is worth.

michaellno

Sounds like everyone got what they were looking for, by and large, with the Paseo.

When my kids were getting close to driving age, I had a discussion with my insurance agent about what cars were the cheapest to insure for 16 year olds. They told me Saturn sedans.

It's sorta funny that both my kids now drive Saturn sedans!

astegman

I guess I'm in the minority, because my high school grades were not affected by getting a car. In 1978, as a high school junior, I was given a 1965 Mustang convertible by my dad. Since both my parents worked, having the car allowed me to take myself to various after-school activities (and my friends as well, who often chipped in for gas). I was a straight A student from K through 12, graduated in the top 5% of my class, was in the National Honor Society, editor of the yearbook, went to a top-notch university, you get the picture...I know this comes off as conceited and self-congratulatory, but the point is, I had a firm foundation before I got the car. I loved school, got good grades, and the car did nothing to change all that. If anything, it helped; I had to be responsible for that vehicle (to an extent; I did not pay for the insurance)and knew it could be taken away. Just my $.02. I certainly understand that when the day comes that my son is ready to drive, it's not going to be a free ride!

british_rover

Hmhh I don't really remember if my grades moved up or down towards my last two years of High School.

I bought my own car from my mom as when they bought the car brand new six years previously the agreement was I would pay fair market value for the car after I got my permit.

Of course being a teenage driver about two months after I got my permit but before I had enough money to buy the car I wrecked it one morning on the way home from church.

Afterwards I tried to argue diminished value with my mom because of the accident but she didn't buy that at all.

If my grades did slip after I had free use of the car it was probably more of a result that I had more free access to my girlfriend who didn't have a car yet.

jack47

The research study indicated that the grades of the AVERAGE high school student deteriorated after he got a car. Moreover, almost all empirical evidence will show the same results.

Of course, there are exceptions.

A highly motivated and bright student for one.

Or a complete nerd who has no social life.

It's simple stuff.

snakeweasel

Did the research study compare high school student that got a car to high school students that didn't get a car? If so did the research study show what happened to the grades of those who didn't get a car.

Remember that correlation does not equal cause and effect. Like the one study of grade school kids that showed that those with bigger feet had better reading skills. Of course kids with larger feet are generally bigger and bigger kids are generally older and older kids are generally in higher grades and kids in higher grades usually have better reading skills.

I still contend that it has more to do with moving on to higher levels of study than it does with cars.

astegman

Or a complete nerd who has no social life.

Ouch!! But probably deserved. I was kind of a nerd in high school (but I did date the quarterback of the football team...doesn't that count for something??).

explorerx4

my grades stayed about the same.

tidester

Perhaps we could segue back to topic with some tales about selling cars to teens and other young buyers? Anyone?

tidester, host

british_rover

Bueler...

I had a guy trade his 2004 M3 with 27,000 miles in for a Supercharged Range Rover Sport yesterday.

I know what I am driving home tonight.

jipster

Perhaps we could segue back to topic...

Good idea tidester. That "My grades in high school dropped/raised/stayed the same, when I got a motor vehicle" thread has got to be one of the lamest I have ever read on Edmunds...maybe even worse than my Kirby thread. :P

bretfraz

What did ya give him on trade? Just want to add to the wholesale price database.

Speaking of BMW's and trades and staying on topic, here's a couple gems from a friend who sells at a local BMW store.

*STORY #1* Woman comes in wanting a new 6-series. I guess she'd done real well in her business (dunno what it was) and wanted to reward herself. My friend does his thing, lady decides she likes it and buys it. Black with a reddish-brown interior. About $70,000 paid by check.

About a month later she comes back and tells my friend she doesn't like the car and wants something else. Apparently this was the largest car she'd ever owned and was not comfortable driving and maneuvering the car in traffic. She decides to trade into a new 330i sedan. Loses about $12,000 on the trade and he sells her the 330i at full sticker. After this deal is done, he calls a customer who was interested in the 645 and eventually sells it to him about $2000 off full sticker. Between the three deals he made about $10,000.

*STORY #2* High-powered attorney type comes in wanting a new M5 with the V10. Friend locates a white on blue in another state. Attorney wants it and pays for the car and shipping with a check, over $90,000. Mr. Attorney starts calling every day with, "Where's my car? Where's my car?" Car arrives and he rushes over to take it home. Everyone happy.

Well, not so fast. About 6 weeks later our attorney comes back with the M5 wanting to dump it. Apparently when he got home with it, the wife threatened to leave him. Her ultimatum was "lose the car or lose me forever". I guess they'd been fighting for some time and she'd bought some expensive stuff to spite him. He thought he'd buy this car to show her up. When they appraised the trade, the buy price was $25,000 less than his purchase price. The attorney said, "25 grand is a lot cheaper than getting a divorce!" The dealer called a few customers on the M5 waiting list and it was resold in a few days for full sticker.

Gotta love Type A silly rich people! Can't seem to whizz away money fast enough.

british_rover

Yeah that does not surprise me. I wish our pay plan was set up better. No way would I make anywhere near that much money on those two deals. I would be lucky to clear 2,000 dollars with the way our new car pay plan is set up.

We put about 35,000 on the M3. It had some slightly less desirable aftermarket mods which kicked its value down but other then that it was ok.

jmonroe

...I was kind of a nerd in high school (but I did date the quarterback of the football team...doesn't that count for something??).

Nope, he musta been one too.

Couldn't resist,

jmonroe

jmonroe

...maybe even worse than my Kirby thread.

I can't believe you admitted that.

Everybody should bookmark that post.

It is an honest/true confession,

jmonroe

jipster

Nahhh...actually I was just being a nice guy, and wrote that my Kirby thread sucked so the rest of you chumps wouldn't feel so bad about contributing to the, "My high school grades fell/raised/stayed the same when I bought a car" thread.

My kirby thread rocked...and you know it jmonroe. :P

jmonroe

...so the rest of you chumps wouldn't feel so bad about contributing to the, "My high school grades fell/raised/stayed the same when I bought a car" thread.

Just for the record, I never contributed to that thread.

Since you brought it up, I never had a car when I was in high school. However, if my parents could have afforded one for their favorite son, they would have buyed me one cause my grades couldn't have gotten any lower and I was takin the easy stuff.

There I said it.

jmonroe