Stories from the Sales Frontlines

mattandi

Despite my earlier comments (and I hope GG knows I really was not arguing with him, just offering a different perspective), I honestly don't know if a one price system could ever work or stick. We've just never seen one that did. Saturn was on to something when they had a unique line. Now that they have essentially been fully assimilated into the General, the one price thingy doesn't make as much sense as it once did. At any rate, a sudden change to a one price system would likely decimate the car market as we know it.

gogiboy

Here's a bit of diversion from the broader socio-economic discussion that is holding sway lately. I file this under personal economics/follow-up sales/morality tale.

Last May (Memorial weekend to be exact) I drove my 15 month old Mazda3 to the airport in Tulsa (80 miles from my house) to pick up my parents for a week stay at casa gogiboy. Returning along the interstate I crested a hill and--to my horror--discovered a stalled/stopped car pulling a trailer in the left lane (there was no shoulder as it was at the exit ramp)). Hit the brakes quickly and miraculously avoided any squealing and/or overly abrupt stop, but when pulling around the vehicle I must have hit something in the road because suddenly there was a pop and the car drove poorly. So as quickly as I could I pulled over into the right lane shoulder. My back tire was flat. That's when the saga really begins.

I pull out my spare donut, jack, etc and prepare to remove the tire so that I can limp to a tire repair place. That's when I discover I don't have the lug nut key. I call Mazda roadside assistance and they send a tow truck (guy's first day working in Tulsa--but that's another story) and he hauls my vehicle to the only Mazda dealership in Tulsa with both my 80 year old parents shoved in between the driver and me in the single cab.

Although the Mazda dealership is open, the service area has closed and won't reopen until Tuesday because of the holiday (it's Saturday afternoon). So I ask for a loaner, but they tell me the tire is not a warranty issue because the cause was a "Road hazard". They can, however, rent me a car at $30/day then fix the tire on Tuesday and I'm only out the rental fee and tire repair cost. What can I do? I'm over a barrel.

Tuesday rolls around and I'm anxious to return the vehicle. Unfortunately, the tire is ruined, the wheel is also irreparably damaged and a replacement tire that matches the other three will have to be ordered thus extending my rental for at least two additional days. A Wheel/Two tires/Alignment and labor will roughly $900--$120 of that being the additional tire.

That's when the fun begins with the Mazda dealership where I bought the car in OKC. I will tell you that the dealership and corporate Mazda were less than helpful--even suggesting that it was my fault that the lug key wasn't in the car. It was never shown to me in the demonstration--lesson learned! Like most of you I buy new cars infrequently and should have examined every check box very carefully.

So, what would the sensible sales folk on this forum think would be an appropriate resolution? What should I be asked to cover and what should the dealership and/or corporate Mazda cover? What would a good salesman do to keep a customer happy after the sale? What do my fellow car buying enthusiasts think is fair treatment? Also, I'd like to know where you think I should take my car for dealer/warranty service in the future. I'll let you know what actually happened when I get a chance.

Gogiboy

mattandi

We are already seeing further consolidation of dealerships, especially among the domestics. This will most likely accelerate even more for the foreseeable future. Probably more likely than the emergence/evolution of more one price systems. Locally, just in the last month, we now have one lot that has Hummer, Chevy, Saturn, Saab, Caddy, GMC, Pontiac, and Buick available. Talk about a sales front line. "Oh you want a fully loaded Enclave for $12k less? No problem, we can do that. It's called a Traverse. We have one right over here." :P

Mr_Shiftright

gogi, I don't see where the Mazda factory is involved in this at all, and since your dealer didn't have a chance to remedy the situation (being too far away) I'd have to say that in spite of your misfortune, with which i sympathize, what you have here is an insurance claim, not a factory or dealer claim, because it was a road hazard, not a defect.

So I'd say the insurance company is the only one who owes you anything on this deal, and maybe, upon investigation the tire manufacturer.

jipster

Why did you have to take evasive action if the stalled vehicle was in the left hand lane? Why two tires and not one? Where was the lug nut key if it wasn't in your car? Maybe, my ADHD is acting up... but I must be missing something here.

Anywho, it's my opinion that you should cover everything. The dealer is correct in that the tire is not a warranty issue. You have to pay all car rentals and associated tire/wheel repairs. I guess if you never got a lug nut key, you could ask the dealership for a free replacement.... big whoop huh?

ray80

'Branch on less than or equal? I suppose that fits this forum if we need to branch back to topic if the current thread is less than or equal to what is expected?'
That would be branch on index low or equal (used to table search), but I'd never try to explain that in a sales story

madmanmoo

Gotta agree with the guys. This is all your responsiblity. It would be nice if the dealership did something for you, but it is not their responsiblity. With the margins on Mazdas, I can't imagine that it would make good business sense to help out with anything there.

Sorry brother.

jipster

One of those cases where the roadside hazzard warranty, for the tires, would come in handy... don't know if they handle free replacement on damaged wheels though.

I probably wouldn't turn something like this into the insurance company though.

madmanmoo

Yes, we sell a phenomenal product called Driver Care. It covers wheels/tires in the case of road hazards. No deductible, replaces with whatever you had on them. 5 years, unlimited miles, unlimited claims. Awesome product. All for $695 on a Porsche (but only at the point of sale).

graphicguy

gus.....It's pretty clear that the General and their dealers are trying to get their inventory off the lots as quickly as they possibly can. I think from the dealer's standpoint, they've got slow moving inventory that's costing them floorplan money the longer it sits there. And, it's been sitting there for awhile (particularly trucks and SUVs). That'll happen when your business is down by double digits for a little while.

They're bending over backwards to get that stock off the lot. Your story, as well as many others, prove the point.

matt....no offense taken. Appreciate your comments. Yeah....Saturn started out as yet another "volley" fired at the "yoda/honda" products that GM can compete with the best of Japan. Good concept. Poor execution. Now, they're just another GM brand. Too many similarities than differences between the brands on the GM stables. Will it be an Outlook, a Traverse or an Enclave? Same recipe. Same ingredients. Same taste. Just a different look. Personally, I still think GM has too many brands. Pontiac, and/or GMC, and/or Buick could go, and few people would miss them. Hummer may as well be history. Saab....never could understand that acquisition to begin with.

Toyota's suffering a little GM-itis.....got too big and took their eye off the ball. Don't hear them crowing about overtaking GM these days. They've got other more pressing things on their plate. Somebody had to pay for the 0% financing. They're clearing the lots, too.

Honda seemed immune. But, the latest figures for them shows they're down, too.

Nissan, surprisingly took a huge fall.

To me, the time is right for a radical change in their pricing structure. No one wants to take that risk, however.

armadilloal

Saturn was on to something when they had a unique line. Now that they have essentially been fully assimilated into the General, the one price thingy doesn't make as much sense as it once did.

I dunno...I'm pretty happy with the 'one price' I got on my CPO 2007 ION3 last March. Of course, it helps that that 'one price' was $1,500 below the TMV for said vehicle being Certified Pre-Owned. :-D

kyfdx

I think gogiboy's point is: If the dealership had provided him with the key to the locking lug nut, then he could have changed his own tire, and would have been out nothing for a tow and rental.

By not providing him with a key to a locking lug nut, or even informing him that his car had wheel locks, they caused the extra expense (over and above the cost of the wheel/tire).

gogiboy.. please feel free to correct me, if I've mischaracterized your post..

On another note, who wouldn't want a relaxing holiday at Casa de gogiboy?

dino001

Old habits die slowly. Everybody knows airline industry should change their pricing and fleet strategies, yet they do a lot to keep thing just the way they are.

Car industry is the same. I think biggest advantage of Japanese over Detroit is the former has business model that is much more demand driven than Detroit, which has just made a few first steps in attempt to free itself from supply-driven model that was entrenched deeply in their business.

The difference is with mindset: demand driven has mobility of reaction to market preferences shifts, vs. the supply driven model heavily relies on marketing games (from advertising, to incentives, to fleets) and to push product that has volumes already committed in manufacturing.

Of course latest drops hit practically everybody, the question remains who will be able to shake it out restructure first. My bet is on Japanese, but it's not completely given this time. Everybody is affected.

boomchek

Gogiboy... I understand your frustration, but the only thing your dealer would be responsible for is the towing, and to a certain extent the car rental as you had no way of driving on the damaged wheel because they didn't include the lug nut key with your car, in order for you to change the wheel/tire.

The tire replacement, wheel replacement is unfortuantely like others pointed road hazards and has nothing to do with the vehicle warranty , or dealership.

I had situations in the past where we gave and showed customers where the locking nut key is and they would call me months later when they had a flat that they couldn't find it. I mean once the car rolls out of the showroom, it's not really my fault if you misplace certain tools that go with it.

In one sitaution though (before Honda had roadside assistance for free) I did drive out halfway across town to help a customer with a set of lug nut master keys, (on a sunday) that didn't work, but I did assist her with the towing and driving her home later. It's not something I'd normally do but she gacve us a good survey, and her and her husband were really nice to deal with. (In some cases being nice to the salesman helps )

mattandi

That's how I read gogiboy's post as well.

That's when the fun begins with the Mazda dealership where I bought the car in OKC. I will tell you that the dealership and corporate Mazda were less than helpful--even suggesting that it was my fault that the lug key wasn't in the car. It was never shown to me in the demonstration--lesson learned! Like most of you I buy new cars infrequently and should have examined every check box very carefully.

Sounds like an impasse. As far as the dealer is concerned, gogiboy accepted delivery of the car and there was a lug-nut key with it when it was delivered. He likely even signed some thingy stating that all necessary items (spare, jack, extra key fob, etc.) were with the car when he accepted delivery.

jipster

I think gogiboy's point is: If the dealership had provided him with the key to the locking lug nut, then he could have changed his own tire, and would have been out nothing for a tow and rental.

The tow didn't cost him anything as gogiboy had free Mazda Roadside Assistance.

The rental? Well, he would have needed one anyhow. He can't be driving around on a doughnut spare tire.

edited: O.k, if the lugnut key is in the car, gogiboy can take his Mazda to a tire store, instead of the dealership. But, he's still going to have to order another wheel from Mazda, meaning he's stuck paying for a rental car either way.

Agree about the relaxng holiday at Casa de gogiboy. :shades:

driver100

Before we all start licking our chops and waiting for the car companies to start giving away new cars;

WOODCLIFF LAKE, N.J. Sept. 22, 2008 — According to Diana Kurylko, writing for Automotive News, BMW's new North American chief wants to stop pushing for maximum sales volume in a declining market — even if it means bringing 16 years of U.S. sales increases to a halt.

BMW Group's U.S. operations will not take 44,000 new BMW brand cars and trucks that were to be allocated to the United States this year, said Jim O'Donnell, CEO of BMW (U.S.) Holding Corp. Those vehicles will go to markets where they can be sold more profitably, he said.

And probably other manufacturers will start to cut back on production so there won't be excess tin out there at the showroom.

mattgg1

"Yes, we sell a phenomenal product called Driver Care. It covers wheels/tires in the case of road hazards. No deductible, replaces with whatever you had on them. 5 years, unlimited miles, unlimited claims. Awesome product. All for $695 on a Porsche (but only at the point of sale)."

Can I ask you a question about this "phenomenal" and "awesome" product. How much does this product cost the dealer?

My neighbor sells cars, and his dealership offers a similar wheel/tire insurance/warranty package, and here is the pricing:
Dealer Cost: $55
Consumer Price: $395
Dealer Markup/Profit: 718%

The product may be awesome for the dealer who is making a huge profit selling it, but not so phenomenal for the sucker who buys it.

isellhondas

In all of my many years of driving I have never, once damaged a wheel or a tire.

Once when I was 17 years old and broke, I did have a recap (rmemmber those?) decide to blow apart at 80 MPH !

boomchek

So what if the dealer cost is low? The key is if the consumer will benefit from it.

Heck, I'm in the business and I'd consider buying it. If you blow one tire on a Porsche 911, that might run you around $500-$600. Just one flat in 5 years pays for the plan.

The product may be awesome for the dealer who is making a huge profit selling it, but not so phenomenal for the sucker who buys it.

Just because it benefits someone, doesn't mean they're a sucker. And because someone profits from it, is not necessarily a bad thing either.

isellhondas

I doubt if "flats" are included. I think this is for tires that are damaged and rims that get damaged.

Given the prices for a Porsche rim, I suppose one good blowout could recoup the cost.

It's just that most of us never have that happen.

mattandi

I did have a recap decide to blow apart at 80 MPH !

Bet that was a wild few moments. Glad you got through that one ok.

I was once doing donuts in a parking lot during a snow storm. (yeah, young, broke, and dumb) It was difficult to tell where the parking lot ended. Unseen curbs buried in snow do nasty things to tires and rims.

explorerx4

i'm embarrassed to say, until i read your post, mikefm58's reply went right over my head. :sick:
last weekend, i rented an impala and expected it to be pretty much the same as the last one i drove as a loaner several years ago (i think it is still pretty much the same underneath). it was much nicer to drive, so when my wife is looking for her next vehicle, some test drives are in order.

fezo

I had that happen a good thirty years ago. Recap decided to let go at about 70 on the Connecticut Turnpike. That was certainly an adventure!

jipster

My neighbor sells cars, and his dealership offers a similar wheel/tire insurance/warranty package, and here is the pricing:
Dealer Cost: $55
Consumer Price: $395
Dealer Markup/Profit: 718%

When I buy my 911 Turbo from moo, I'll be taking it to Walmart for repairs. Their tire road hazzard warranty package is a lot less expensive. :lemon:

oldfarmer50

I stopped by my Mitsu dealer today to make an appointment for an oil change. I had received a coupon from Mitsu for a free one.

I assumed that the freebie would only be for conventional oil and, as I use synthetic, I expected I would have to pay the difference. So my question for the service writer was---What is the difference in cost between conventional and synthetic? Sounds simple right? Not quite.

The tech went into a convoluted story of how it would depend on how much oil was used and the labor involved and that if I used my coupon on a synthetic change I would have to "buy the oil" at extra cost. I tried every which way to get him to give me a straight answer but to no avail. Mean-while his buddy at the other desk kept shouting " 35 dollars, 35 dollars!" as if this explained it all.

So after all this I still have no idea what they would charge me for either a conventional or synthetic oil change. I think I'm going to cancel the appointment and go to my indie shop. At least they will tell me what they charge.

I ask the sales folks here, was this just a way to discourage the use of free giveaways or were these guys really that clueless? :sick:

jipster

or were these guys really that clueless?

No abla espanol? :surprise:

You should have "dumbed" it down for the service writer. i.e "How many green paper thingies for fake black goo?"

But seriously, if the coupon just said free oil change, and didn't differentiate... then I would have just told them synthetic oil change and handed them the coupon. Would seem they would honor it regardless, if they wanted to behave in a professional manner that is.

mikefm58

was this just a way to discourage the use of free giveaways or were these guys really that clueless?

I'm not one of the sales folk here, but that guy really was clueless. My best story about dealing with clueless service advisors was when I took my 99 CRV with 135K miles in for brakes about a year and a half after having the timing belt changed at their dealership. When the guy called he had an entire laundry list of items that needed attention,one of which was the timing belt. When I asked him why, since they had just changed it themselves. His answer was, Oh, I'm just relaying what the tech. guy said. Duh!

snakeweasel

Thats why I like my friendly neighborhood auto mechanic. He knows me by sight and can recite from memory what he has done to all three cars.

jipster

When the guy called he had an entire laundry list of items that needed attention,one of which was the timing belt. When I asked him why, since they had just changed it themselves. His answer was, Oh, I'm just relaying what the tech. guy said. Duh!

Service writers get a piece of the pie on every upsell dont they.. could certainly lead to unethical practices amoungst the bad eggs.

My Mazda service writer tried to talk me out of goodwill on an out of warranty repair. A friend said they don't get paid on warranty work, but on out of warranty work they get a percentage. I don't really think the service writer had Mazda Inc. best interests at heart... maybe the dealership/his.

boomchek

I think he was clueless.

I would not have given the coupon and expected synthetic, because chances are he would have ordered regular oil put into your car instead of synthetic.

Maybe he couldn't answer your question because he needs to take off his shoes to count past 10. :P

driver100

I stopped by my Mitsu dealer today to make an appointment for an oil change. I had received a coupon from Mitsu for a free one.

oldfarmer you always have such good common sense comments and advice.

The question is, did you really expect to get something for free?

I usually throw those kind of coupons away, they always end up costing more than they are worth.

Kind of reminds me of the free muffler inspection where they knock your muffler all over until it gets a hole in it. Or the free transmission inspection where they find the shavings inside. Anytime you drive into a dealership for repairs they have to make extra bucks on you....I doubt if it will ever be free (unless part of the warranty).

mikefm58

could certainly lead to unethical practices amoungst the bad eggs.

Unethical would be what happenned to my friend, SA told her the tranny fluid was brown and needed changing. I came in and checked it, bright pink to me. He tried to take advantage of a female. The Honda SA who tried telling me the timing belt needed changing without first checking to see if they had done it was just an idiot.

chikoo

> I'll check back in ten years when i have my own store and the rest of you are still salespeople and see if anything has changed.

Wow......now that is confidence :shades:

chikoo

That is not fun......Your store should be your own, not one that you get 'cause your dad had one :sick:

chikoo

Write an email to mazdaowners@mazdausa.com succinctly explaining that it was the dealerships fault that he had to have the car towed. Had they not forgot to put the wheel lock key in the car, you would not have needed the tow and rental car service.
Mazda Corporate is very understanding.

duke23

MMM, I appreciate your comments, I raise a toast. It has been a stressful month with over 25 years of sales you'd think it would get easier but this particular version of perfect storm has been mean and likely to continue so I will, as they say in Texas, hunker down. If I have been emotional and confrontational, I apologise, both to Isell and fandi and our hosts. I walk in in the morning with a knot in my stomach and out in the afternoon with one in my shoulders. But I've been here before and it will pass. Not quickly, but pass it will. As any salesman does , I keep high levels of liquidity because forefront in our minds is what happens in a bad market and sales aren't coming in? This causes us to be a tad over paranoid and keep high liquid balances. But enough on the economy and market, let's talk some car sales Let'er rip.

percussionist

The question is, did you really expect to get something for free? Anytime you drive into a dealership for repairs they have to make extra bucks on you....I doubt if it will ever be free (unless part of the warranty).

I have to agree - I received a coupon for a $27.95 oil change the other day. It's too bad it was coated in a thin plastic, or else it would have been useful to me in starting a fire (it got a bit chilly the other day).

Here's one that really gets my attention, though, and it's a testament to this dealer. I need front brakes replaced on my car, and that's one thing I won't do myself, so I call a nearby dealer and ask them to schedule an appointment. They give me a free loaner car and they do not overcharge for the service! That's fantastic! PS- I did not buy the car from them, but they will give me a loaner if they have one available anyway. I think that's very nice, and of course I reward that with my business. Sometimes you can get something for free. Oh, and unlike the last user of this car, I'll return it to them with a full tank of gas!

jipster

The Honda SA who tried telling me the timing belt needed changing without first checking to see if they had done it was just an idiot.

You don't know that he didn't check. Maybe he thought you were the idiot.

The "I forgot" thing that some use is just an excuse for unethical behavior, especially when you're talking about hundreds of dollars with a timing belt change.

jipster

I have to agree - I received a coupon for a $27.95 oil change the other day. It's too bad it was coated in a thin plastic, or else it would have been useful to me in starting a fire (it got a bit chilly the other day).

Not useful in that you usually pay $28.50 for an oil change? I get $19.95 coupons in the mail all the time from my Mazda dealership... no problems or hassel at all, saves me about $15.

isellhondas

No apology needed.

We are all in the same boat and the news continues to worsen.

The stock market downturns have made it hard to get out of bed in the morning. Tough times, indeed.

percussionist

Not useful in that you usually pay $28.50 for an oil change?

Exactly! I think their regular price is something like $32, which is robbery in my opinion. I can do it myself for less than half of that, and it doesn't take long. I go to my in-laws, we have a great meal, I change the oil while we eat, and they recycle the used oil at the transfer station. Can't beat that!

graphicguy

dino....while BMW taking some of their stock elsewhere to sell, I think it's more "hot air" blowing than anything else. What does BMW care whether the dealerships are holding high margin or not. The store pays the same for their cars, whether the market is holding margin or not.

Maybe some "face saving" involved. 16 years of sales increases is difficult to walk away from....especially in the largest market in the world. My guess is they're facing a decline in sales like everyone else. Easy and convenient to say "we moved inventory to geographic regions where our dealers can hold better margin."

At best, a good PR move.

Regarding service (or lack thereof) of our vehicles.....

As most of you know, I'm a charter member of CCBA. For years Mazda had been teasing the world that they were returning a rotary powered RX to the market place. IMHO, while not the fastest cars in the segment, the RX was certainly one of the most complete, and unique cars at the price point. I had been a fan of the RX for many years....even when it wasn't produced. At one time, I had an RX7 (late '80s) I had bought used and "tinkered" with for a couple of years.

When the RX8 hit in '04, I was one of the first in line to get one. Those of you who remember their initial rollout, it didn't go very smoothly for Mazda. They overstated the HP and its fuel economy. It was supposed to have a rotary with 248 HP and get close to 20 MPG/city. HP had to be restated to 237 (plenty of evidence it was actually less than 220 HP). 14-15 MPG was more the norm for fuel economy.

There were other buggaboos that plagued it, too. It had a habit of fouling its plugs. Consequently, it could leave you stranded, not being able to start the car. It would have to be flat bedded back to the dealership to get new plugs. A/C compressor was very weak, as was the battery.

Still, for me, that didn't detract from the overall goodness of the car. Would run all day at 9K rpm without complaint. Probably one of the best balanced handling cars I ever owned.

Mazda offered to buy back the initial run of RX8s (which mine was one of)...IIRC, it was something along the order of about 3,000 cars (before they could change the MSRP sticker to reflect the "lowered" HP ratings). Or, you could keep the car. Mazda would send you a $500 check for your troubles AND free bumper-to-bumper maintenance for the duration of the warranty (4 years, 50K miles).

I chose the latter. Still, problems persisted. After the 3rd time my car had to be flat bedded to the dealership. They were always very, very attentive and concerned whenever I came into the dealership. Always gave me a free loaner car, too. The last time it left me stranded, I was getting quite irritated. I let my service writer know. As luck would have it, the Mazda regional rep was there that day and was in ear shot of my rants.

He calmly approached me, introduced himself, and asked about my problems.

-3 "no start" situations, had to be towed to the dealership for repair (which they never could get right).
-terrible A/C performance
-2 batteries died, for no apparent reason

Finally, the Mazda rep asked me what he should do (when's the last time a manufacturer's rep asked anyone that?).

I told him my thoughts. I knew that rotaries were quirky and well aware that a little extra care needed to be practiced if you owned one. Like, you didn't start and then shut the car down before operating temps were hit. You checked the oil frequently (about every other fillup), as rotaries are, by design, supposed to burn oil. Poor A/C. Weak starter and battery. I told him I thought Mazda probably jumped the gun a little bit in releasing a product that wasn't thoroughly tested. He was aware that I chose the free maintenance over the buyback.

Then, something unexpected happened. The rep asked if I wanted to give my car back to Mazda. Being frustrated at that point, I said "yes".

We went into the showroom, into the SM's office. the Mazda rep pulled out some papers. Told me Mazda would indeed buy back my car (even after I initially turned down their offer). He said they'd return my entire purchase price, the price of TTL, doc fees...every last nickel I spent to buy the car.

I asked him about the $500 Mazda had sent as a gift for my irritation. He said "keep it. You deserve it for all the hassle you've been through". Rep said to leave the car at the dealership, and arranged a loaner (at the time, a very nice new 6). He said to keep it until I got the check from Mazda.

About a week later, my check arrived, as promised, for everything. I returned the loaner. Sales person asked me if I wanted to buy another Mazda. While I was struck by how well Mazda took care of me, I took a pass. He had their "courtesy transportation" guy give me a ride home.

Would I buy another Mazda? Yeah....maybe! But, if it weren't for the way they treated me, stepped up to the plate to take care of me, that would have been a brand I would have never considered owning, again.

driver100

What does BMW care whether the dealerships are holding high margin or not. The store pays the same for their cars, whether the market is holding margin or not

Not exactly GG. BMWs are in demand and each dealer is allotted only so many of each model. They can't build them fast enough to meet world wide demand - so they can easily allot these cars to other markets....like I said, 1300 new cars every day on the road in Beijing! Hopefully, the American companies will see the light and reduce stock too, or they'll have a surplus of tin on their lots.

This brings me around to how many people are interested in buying a new car these days? With retirement savings taking a beating, banks failing, people losing their homes, the whole world in financial chaos who would enjoy driving around in a nice new car? :confuse:

driver100

We went into the showroom, into the SM's office. the Mazda rep pulled out some papers. Told me Mazda would indeed buy back my car (even after I initially turned down their offer). He said they'd return my entire purchase price, the price of TTL, doc fees...every last nickel I spent to buy the car.

Excellent story GG. Makes me respect big corporations a little bit these days. Most companies, especially car makers don't really care about customer satisfaction these days. It's all the bottom line and profit each quarter to keep everyone in their jobs. If it costs money to fix, forget it. On my last car (X3) the windows would get frozen shut when the temperature went below 25 degrees F.
It was embarrassing at the drive through that I had to open the door to get my food and the guy in the Ford Focus was fine. Not only was it inconvenient, it was also a safety issue. Well, the dealership sprayed it with silicon but could never fix it. Head office ignored my emails. If I could find a similar car that I'd like better I would buy it, but I might as well go back, all car companies will be the same.

mattgg1

"So what if the dealer cost is low? The key is if the consumer will benefit from it.

Heck, I'm in the business and I'd consider buying it. If you blow one tire on a Porsche 911, that might run you around $500-$600. Just one flat in 5 years pays for the plan."

Are you serious? Let me state this fact again: The dealer is marking up and realizing a profit of 718% on this product. 718%!!!!

There is no economist or financial expert on this planet that would say a consumer would "benefit" from paying 718% over cost for a wheel/tire maintenance plan.

"Just because it benefits someone, doesn't mean they're a sucker. And because someone profits from it, is not necessarily a bad thing either."

I certainly don't think a business making a profit is bad. In fact, I am a strong proponent of capitalism. However, I do think that making a 718% profit (on something that costs virtually nothing to sell) is a bad deal for the consumer.

Name the products would you rush out to buy if you knew the seller was marking the cost up 718%?

graphicguy

driver....don't know if there's a larger market than the U.S. for BMWs. To me, it doesn't make business sense to cut inventory in your largest market, give up 16 straight years of unit growth, give up market share, UNLESS they're not going to hit year 17 with accelerated sales.

We'll have to just agree to disagree on this. I see it more as a PR move than anything else.

I know that China is a growing market. But, there's signs that their political planners are bracing themselves for a slow down, too. In short, the "recession" is global. Besides, didn't you say they like Buicks?

I do believe that there is plenty of evidence that car sales are slowing worldwide. No doubt, considering what I'm personally seeing around here (midwest, for what that's worth), dealers are being aggressive....trying to clear their lots. In turn, the manufacturers will indeed cut back on the amount of production. They've been trying to do that for years. This, as opposed to manufacturers usually stuffing their dealerships with stock....which used to be "business as usual".

Said it before, there are few of us who HAVE TO HAVE a new car. Those that are in the market are faced with the fact that only 6 in 10 can get financing.

Hell, I've got a 770 beacon, last I checked. But, I'm unemployed. If I wanted to finance a car, who do you think would give me a loan, even with my beacon score?

I've purposely kept my asset to debt ratio low, throughout my life. It's allowed me to weather this storm for me personally. But, I bet I couldn't get a car dealership to write paper on me right now.

Like most of Americans, I get my investment statements in the mail, and I see nothing but negatives.

Still, as mentioned, I'm an optimist by nature. I have faith, as long as I'm vertical and breathing, I'm confident enough in myself, my abilities, that tomorrow will be better.

lemmer

Living in a semi-free market society, people don't generally get 718% mark ups. Why wouldn't Joe Blow come along and offer the same thing for a 500% markup? This isn't exactly a buying a beer at a Braves game situation. People have options.

kyfdx

I've heard of independent auto clubs offering wheel/tire insurance for $50/yr, but I really doubt that salesperson knows the real cost of it for the dealership.. $55 seems awfully low for a plan that covers any sort of high-end wheel...

However, a markup of 100% wouldn't surprise me at all...

Mop and glow? 300%-400% markups are probably common..

qbrozen

huh. I must be remembering another RX8 owner around here. I thought you were the one who had their 8 totalled by a truck from behind at a stop sign. (?)