since i was in michigan over the weekend, i bought the sunday edition of the Detroit Free Press. Chrysler dealers were advertising a 2008 charger se+ msrp 23,5xx, employee price(with voucher) 13,3xx, everyone else 14,5xx. a charger isn't a bad car and those are screaming big deals! charger se+
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Gg, thanks for the information. I had a feeling that employee pricing was probably better than the x-plan. As you say, testing the waters might be a good idea. In fact, the wife and I went by the Ford and Chrysler places last night---after they closed. Also, I'm internet browsing. There's no need to get a salesman's hopes up if I am just kicking tires and window shopping.
Man, you go away for a few days and everything is going on. Missed 200 posts.... Missed gp leaving soon to be former Mrs. gp... Missed finding out that isell is a fellow English major.
My dad passed last week making me an official orphan. We're pretty shook up but he was six weeks short of 91 so it's not like it was a shock. We did send him out the way he wanted, including finding a dixieland band to play When The Saints Go Marching In at the cemetery.
For the longest time I wanted whatever dad's last car was because dad and cars had a very colorful history. Actually most anything about dad had a colorful history. Back 4 or 5 years as he's ready to turn in his last DeVille he was talking about a BMW which would have made it perfect. He ended up in a Buick Century and immediately regretted it and we only ever got it up to maybe 12K when it was time to turn the lease in. Oh, well. Can't win them all.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Last year, my former boss gave us her time share for the weekend. Her husband had to have surgery and they couldn't change the dates. She called ahead to let the resort know that we would be occupying the time share that weekend. When we arrived to check in, we were met by a resort representative who stated that they had planned a presentation for us that evening. I immediately informed them that I had another presentation to attend----dinner, theater tickets, and a hot shower before bed. The next morning, they called our condo to schedule a presentation. I told them that we were on our way out and would not return until late evening. They called again on Sunday morning. I told them that we were preparing to check out. My former boss was furious when I told her what had happened. She called the resort management and gave them several pieces of her mind; and believe me, this lady knows how to chew a body out.
Sorry about your loss Fezo, good thing your dad had a long life at least. Wish you all the best. What can you do though, life goes on and all that's left is memories.
My condolences on your loss. The Dixieland band playing "When The Saints Go Marching In" was a wonderful send off. He would be very proud of you for that gesture. My father-in-law passed away in November at the age of 95. He wanted a military funeral. Since he was a former law maker from North Carolina, we were able to get a segment of the U.S. Naval Band to play at the cemetery. It was so very moving.
Enjoy your memories and be grateful that he lived a long and colorful life. That generation was so special to this country. Too bad that they are not here now to give us the advice that we so desperately need for our country.
Thanks, guys. Dad spent a long time in sales though never in the car biz. He could sell anything to anybody. Amazing.
We did have three Air Force representatives there to do the flag and play taps. Dad was in the Army Air Corps in WWII. Only dad could manage to find an angle in WWII. He was stationed in Arizona and managed to be in charge of things like giving the newly trained pilots a good night on te town before they shipped out. What a deal.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
sorry to hear about your dad. i went out to michigan over the weekend with one of my nephews to say goodbye to one of my bil's father. he is also over 90. it occurred to me that it was stupid wait until he was gone to say goodbye. much better to spend some time while he is still alive. he said i'm not going to make it until christmas, so i told him he has to, i already bought his present. i still have time to make it not be a fib.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Sounds like my kind of guy. I know you hated to lose him, but what an exit. What else could anyone wish for. A great life and a grand exit. All the best.
The Hamilton Spectator (Dec 10, 2008) Police are trying to figure out why a Hamilton man went on a rampage at a Burlington car dealership, plowing into cars and smashing through the front door.
"He was sober, and there was not a mental health issue with him," said Halton's Sergeant Brian Carr yesterday.
Just before midnight Monday, a man drove a Mazda pickup into the Roseland Volkswagen dealership on Guelph Line and used it as a battering ram to smash into five cars. He then gunned it at the building and crashed through the front doors but became stuck. He managed to jump out and went around the lot urinating on cars before returning to his truck.
"He reached inside and pulled out a bottle of Champagne and a glass, climbed up onto the roof of his truck, dropped his pants and committed an indecent act," Carr said.
Then he started throwing debris at a witness before police arrested him. The Hamilton man, 36, has been charged with mischief over $5,000.
Man, you go away for a few days and everything is going on. Missed 200 posts...
I wasn’t out a few days but I was out last night so I’m catching up too. Sorry to hear about your father but it sounds like you gave him his last wish. It takes a good family to do that.
Someone mentioned the “memories”; they never die because we won’t let them.
My thoughts,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hope all the media reports it like this and quits lumping us in with the other two.
THE AUTO INDUSTRY BAILOUT December 10, 2008 - 12:01 am ET UPDATED: 12/10/08 12:20 a.m.
Agreement reached on $15 billion plan to rescue GM, Chrysler
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The White House and congressional Democrats on Tuesday night reached an agreement in principle on a $15 billion proposal for bailing out U.S. automakers and forcing them to restructure or fail, officials said.
Bush administration official and a Democratic leadership aide said the outline covered key points but final issues needed to be resolved and put in writing.
Democrats have arranged to have the House of Representatives vote on a bill as early as Wednesday and send it to the Senate for consideration.
President George W. Bush and President-elect Barack Obama were both urged by a key lawmaker to help rally support by Democrats and Republicans for the pending measure.
"Bipartisan hard work has paid off," said Democratic Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan whose home state headquarters General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.
"I understand an agreement has been reached," Levin said in a statement.
The bailout is designed to allow GM and Chrysler to avert threatened bankruptcy through March with short-term loans. Ford Motor Co. is not requesting immediate help but would like a $9 billion line of credit in case its finances worsen.
The parties that negotiated the tentative deal agreed last week that the money would come from an Energy Department fund established in September to help Detroit make more fuel-efficient cars.
Proof of viability
The administration official said the negotiators satisfied the key White House concern in the talks that companies receiving aid obtain the necessary concessions and make other changes to prove they can survive and compete.
In addition to providing loans, the proposal would force automakers to answer to a presidentially appointed trustee -- or "car czar" -- and make the government their biggest shareholder.
The overseer will have powers to shape a restructuring of the companies, withholding further loans if progress toward a turnaround stalled.
A major provision would permit the czar to recommend a bankruptcy restructuring if companies borrowing money fail to obtain the necessary concessions.
Some Republicans wanted some sort of bankruptcy option included as an incentive for labor and other stakeholders to agree on givebacks.
The administration still opposes a Democratic bid to force automakers to drop lawsuits against California and other states seeking to cut auto emissions and other greenhouse gases. The administration official said it was his expectation the bill will not succeed unless that provision is struck.
Another issue raised by Republicans was the use of taxpayer money in the case of Chrysler, which is owned by private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP. During the talks, Democratic aides said the administration resisted a bid to hold Cerberus liable for repayment if Chrysler defaulted on any loan.
It remains unclear if that matter still needs to be clarified.
Filibuster scenario
Democrats control Congress and were expected to be able to muscle a bill through the House. But it was unclear if Republicans could stop a measure in the Senate with a procedural roadblock that requires 60 votes to clear.
"Ball is in the Senate Republicans' court," said Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat. "There is no word yet whether they will give us consent."
A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said he would decline comment until he saw the bill.
An auto bailout has evoked competing emotions in Congress.
Lawmakers fear if automakers collapse, it would deepen the U.S. recession. But many say market forces, not a government saddled with a record deficit, should determine their fate.
There also is reluctance to provide another federal rescue in the wake of the voter backlash against Congress for its passage of a $700 billion bailout for Wall Street in October.
At the same time, many argue that if Congress provided relief for millionaires in the U.S. financial industry, it should also help blue-collar autoworkers facing unemployment.
A poll by CBS News conducted last week found Americans split on whether taxpayer funds should help automakers.
But more than 65 percent said in exchange for any aid, the government should have a say in the automakers' management and require more fuel-efficient cars.
fezo....my sincere condolences to you and your family.
I was thinking last night about how some of the long time posters here seem to have become friends. Yeah, we fight every once in a while. But, overall I can say that all of you have made tough times just a little easier to bare.
joel, while I don't think the "bailout" plan has enough teeth, it's probably a compromise we can all live with. If nothing else, the CEOs have received a big dose of well deserved humility. A month ago, their arrogance was just off the charts.
Let's see if they keep their jobs. Let's also see if these companies can finally put themselves on sound product and financial footing. I think in the end, anything that restores confidence to the American public is a good thing. I only wish the financial markets would adopt a little of that humility. Right now, I don't have any confidence in any of them....that they're ready to do things that are right.
The way I see this playing out, Chrysler has no choice but to merge, AT NO COST, with GM. Daimler and Cerebus have to take the bitter pill. It was their fault that they put chrysler in the predicament they're in. GM, as they've admitted (which is something Chrysler should do, also), needs to step up their quality, while providing products that people want. I think it's obvious that Pontiac is going away. Probably Saturn, too. Jeep may survive. Don't have much hope for the Chrysler or Dodge brands.
Ford, as bad as things are, seem to be sitting in the best position. If they can right their ship, without tapping into the lines of credit, they'll be better off.
Toyota has spent way too much time and energy trying to usurp GM. I don't think the worst times are behind them, yet.
Honda seems to be staying the course. That's not a bad thing.
All the rest, European brands, Korean brands....all of them are going to suffer along side the Detroit brands. Again, a little humility would go a long way in righting their ships if they want to continue success in the U.S.
Joel, I think the longer this has gone on the more people are realizing that we are dealing with three separate entities and when they realize that Ford looks pretty good. I remember when Mulally mortgaged everything and I thought he was crazy. Guess he's smarter than me!
Obviously Ford does buy into the idea that it's bad for them if the other two go down which is why they are supporting the package in Congress.
Maybe the guy owned the dealership and getting the insurance on those cars was the only way he'd ever see the money..... Creative financing.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
About 7-8 years ago took the wife, step-daughter and her boyfriend to Cancun, stayed at one of the Americana resorts. Kept getting messages from the desk in the lobby...finally stopped by and found it was a pitch for their Fiesta Key vacation plan...no thanks. I paid good money to get the all-inclusive plan down there...not going to waste time for a sales pitch. Was already pissed that I wasted half a day so step-daughter and boyfriend could go to the water park and swim with the dolphins. Big waste of my time.
Cancun, stayed at one of the Americana resorts. Kept getting messages from the desk in the lobby...finally stopped by and found it was a pitch for their Fiesta Key vacation plan...no thanks.
They are so slick in Cancun. When you get off the plane you see all these booths that say they are INFORMATION booths. You think it is a public service for free. They give you nice maps and brochures, they are all very friendly. Then when you say thank you they tell you all the maps and junk are $10 unless you go to a presentation which includes a buffet lunch...lol. Well, I'd rather pay 10 bucks than suffer through the lunch and fight off swarming sales people. The maps were worth the 10 bucks. :shades:
You guys are getting all the really nice places to get your pitches for timeshares, vacation packages. This was a long while ago, but I remember the (then) wife spying one of those "come ons" on the local newspaper. Unfortunately, it was for "free" weekend at French Lick, IN (go ahead....let the jokes begin). For those of you unfamiliar, it's an OLD resort, that happens to be the home town of NBA star and coach Larry Bird.
It's the site of what used to be a grand resort that people when to at the turn of last century for the healing properties of the "springs" (which smelled a lot like sulphur) that ran under and around it. The hotel was grand. And, they were planning condos, a golf course, and an entire vacation community around it.
Well, "free" got my attention. And, although in the middle of the boondocks, it was within driving distance. Beautiful room in the hotel. Good meals and a "free couple's massage were promised. But, not until we had to sit through the "presentation".
The rest you guys already know. It was a hard sell for a time share. Our sales guy did things like you guys have described. Telling me how my wife deserved to be treated luxuriously all the time....how we could imagine many romantic weeks of joy, fun, intimacy, etc. On and on he went.
People ringing bells all the time when one of the sales people "closed" someone. Even had charts and graphs of how it was a good financial decision (I never made the connection).
When I didn't crack, he focused on my wife. Long and short of it, she wanted it. I didn't. It was a frosty ride home, to say the least.
I've been back since. Not as a time share customer, but just as a weekend getaway. It has tuned into something of a "destination" location. But, by the time you add in all the fees, the down payment, the yearly stipend, the monetary additions charged to change locations of their "worldwide vacation spots", the deal wasn't really a deal at all.
by the time you add in all the fees, the down payment, the yearly stipend, the monetary additions charged to change locations of their "worldwide vacation spots", the deal wasn't really a deal at all.
I agree. Same with the presentation we had. You buy into the plan, and have X amount of points to use in a year, but if you don't use them you can carry the pver to the next year, and you can pay extra to stay longer, or upgrade, or change plans etc......
The way I see it, it's basically a very expensive membership that gives you discounts on their hotels and resorts
We just went there after Thanksgiving. Bill Cook has put over $500 million dollars into the French Lick Springs Resort (supposedly it was called lick springs by native americans because deer would come there to lick the salty mineral deposits and then the French came over from Vincennes and renamed it French Lick) and West Baden. It's getting better each day - it has a casino and a new Pete Dye golf course is just about to open and host a PGA event. There's a large indoor water park opening soon too. It's a nice getaway just to see the beauty of the structures and their renovation. The West Baden hotel was the largest unsupported dome until the Houston Astrodome was built. It also hosted the World Class Driving Event this last September. A friend went for the driving event and drove several Ferraris and Lambos.
>It was a long presentation, but we had no plans. It got comical at the end, especially when they told us they could actually get us financing at 18.95%! After I picked myself up off the floor from laughter, they noted that with good credit they could cut it to "around 15%..." Good thing the fall to the floor was a short one...!
They keep saying that no one wants to buy GM cars, etc. but the facts are that in 2007 GM sold more cars than Toyota worldwide. If I remember the numbers correctly both sold around 7 million cars with GM selling slightly more than Toyota. In that same year Toyota had a profit of around $17 billion and GM lost $38 billion.
Now what does that tell you? It tells me that GM can build cars that people will buy but that their management must be really, really poor and their expenses are way too high. So what is their plan to fix this?
They want a loan of several billion dollars so they can build cars that will compete with the Japanese. What? Nothing about cutting expenses and making management changes, etc. Did I mention poor management?
At least they were smart enough to go to the right people for help. People who understand the way they think and operate their business. I am sure they will get their "loan".
Hey, do I resemble that remark? The salesman noted we were intelligent but foolish (not to buy this fab deal!). But he never called us losers. To our face...!
If you know exactly what a timshare is, what you're getting into, it can be fine for some folks. Just be intelligent enough and none too foolish to know it is NOT an investment!
A sad part of the day was our time at the indoor pool/hot tub. There was an older couple there, the gentleman in obvious ill-health. I spoke to his wife, they had bought into this timeshare many years ago. At that time, the spa area was striclty for the timeshare owners. This couple came to use the pool/spa regularly for excersize/therapy as the husband had arthritis, cancer and other (unfortunate) maladies. Now, the pool was open to all the people who came for the presentation and most flaunted the rules of the pool. She complimented my well-behaved kids, but there were a couple of other families where the parents were ignoring the kids who were jumping, screaming, running in/around the pool (ignoring all the posted signs) as this poor older gentleman was trying to do his aqua-excersizes. I really felt bad for those folks. Another timeshare caveat, I guess. The bylaws can change...
At this year's Auto Show, this timeshare outfit had a booth, I entered a contest. I'm expecting my invitation any moment now!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Mark....I was there this past summer. It is a very nice place. The Casino is relatively new. But again, it's no nicer than some of the other ones around here. Then again, a big gambling junket for me is to take $100 to the craps table, or to the black jack table. Even that's a rarity. But, while I don't remember what the cost was at the time as it was about 15 years ago, I remembered thinking that I wouldn't want to be tied to the property for a vacation every year. And, to change to one of their other vacation sites, the fees piled up. That was on top of some pretty hefty initial buy prices and fees.
Whereas, if I wanted to go (as I did) for a weekend, with vouchers, deals, etc that you can find fairly easily, it ended up being about $300 for a two night stay in the main hotel. Will I go back? Probably...if the deal is right. But, I doubt I'd do it next year, or the year after that.
There are just too many good travel deals out there right now to commit to one resort chains vacation spots.
I'm a golfer. While that new course is supposed to be nice, I don't know that it will be any nicer than some of the ones that are closer to home for me. And, if I were to go again, I'd probably wouldn't want to do it with a bunch of guys. I consider it more of a romantic getaway. When I do those, I don't take my clubs with me, as I hope to have better things to do.
I've travelled a lot for work. When I want to go for relaxation, I don't think you can do better than a cruise. You got your ocean. You've got your food. You've got your casino (if that's your thing). You've got your shows. You've got different port of calls.
And, right now, you can score a cheap one. Given the included meals and shows, you can do a cruise for much less than a week in any of those vacation membership deals.
I agree completely. I don't want to be locked into going the same place year after year either. My wife keeps looking at houses to buy in southern states with ocean frontage, but then you're locked in and have to deal with all the maintenance.
The Pete Dye golf course is supposed to be the longest course in the US and is very hilly and narrow. Should be a challenge - especially when I hit short and to the right - but that's another story all together. My wife wanted me to get graphite shafts - I guess so it'd go farther to the right, I'd never find my ball in the woods then.
You're right about the cost - pretty inexpensive usually. The casino is being made to look like the French Lick hotel and no longer like a boat and it's being expanded with a larger high roller area and an in-casino buffet, so it may or may not be slightly different then even this last summer.
To keep on topic, I just bought an 08 Acura MDX with tech package.
The wife and I went to French Lick about 14 years ago... pre-kids. Reminded me a lot of the Overlook Hotel from The Shining... with the long spooky corridors. Kept thinking a crazy guy named Jack would pop around a corner and nail me with an axe. But, it was nice. We may go back one of these years.
Cruise sounds good. Looked into several a couple weeks ago. Only $400 for 7 day Caribbean cruise, eats included, kids free (sold out while we were thinking about it). Reminded me of buying a car though, a lot of mop n glow add ons. You pay the initial fee, then you have a lot of stuff not included in the price, i.e port fee $150 per person, a tipping fee of $15 a day per person, round trip air fare, casino loses, money for booze (for the wife) etc. Still a good deal with all the add-ons... may still end up going this summer.
I am never concerned about the length of a golf course. I need width !!
I'm with ya brother. I'll whack it all day, as long as I can stay away from things like water, trees, tall fescue, dirt, mud, sand, and "out of bounds" signs.
jipster....that hotel does indeed remind me of the "Shining". That movie still creeps me out.
Sometimes tough to do, but if you can stay away from the "art auctions", the jewelry presentations, etc, you can usually do fine on a cruise. Although the one I took with my son for his 21st birthday had him believing since he was legal, it was his duty to drink the bars dry. Good thing he's a rookie. He got sick (and learned a good lesson) the first day on board. Me thinks it was the tequila.
Still ended up with a $350 bar bill, once I added wine with dinner.
Can't imagine a better deal than cruising right now, though.
gg wrote: "I was thinking last night about how some of the long time posters here seem to have become friends. Yeah, we fight every once in a while. But, overall I can say that all of you have made tough times just a little easier to bare. " Yes sir, we agree to disagree. Not that there's any ego's involved here. Some thoughts on the bailout. Believing in laissez - faire it's been difficult to endorse a bail out but having been forced to grasp the big picture, a few items that our lawyer congressmen may fail to grasp. 1) Unemployment benefits by and large won't be recoverable from a tax aspect. 2) In that the dealerships and fmc and gmac have sold their loans forward into cdo's and securitized them, we fail face credit crunch II and call into doubt the insurance companies that have guaranteed them adding insult to injury to insult x 10 . 3) The psychological impact of 2.5 -3 million added to the unemployment rolls if we add in thge parts makers/ suppliers/distributors that will cost us up the wazoo and be cost ineffective. 4) The Chinese take over manufacture of our auto parts, write in personal fear here.
To those that think bankrupting the auto's will solve the UAW. How well has it worked for the airlines? It's a fine mess you've gotten me into Ollie.
Some senate leaders say a bailout deal for automakers is close. They say it's taking so long because every time they almost get a deal, the car executives say, "I'll have to go and check with my manager".
The hotel in the movie is the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, CO.
Originally opened by the Stanley brothers (of Stanley Steamer fame), there is a Steamer in the lobby. Rooms are decent, if a tad on the small side.
Until the late 70's or early 80's, the hotel was only open in the summer, which meant a caretaker was responsible in the winter months. I can't remember which room Steven King stayed in when he wrote the story, but it's noted in the literature.
All in all, a very cool place to visit if you're ever in this part of the country.
An "insider" told me that after the 1st of the year there will be bargains like we can't believe on cruises.
We've been on 8 or 9 and for the money spent there is no greater value to be had anywhere.
They have to fill those cabins and the prices will be jaw dropping. They only hope the bars, casinos, side tours and other offerings will cause them to break even.
isell....the "discounts" on cruises wouldn't surprise me. I'm not the veteran cruiser you are (only done 4 of them). Except for my first "virgin" cruise, where I thought I had to go to every presentation (got caught up in buying some stuff I either no longer have, nor want).
Once I learned my lesson on that count, they've all been bargains. Letting a cruise ship sit idle can't be cheap. Letting one cruise half full can't be cheap either.
As I look back, I never had anything less than a grand time on a cruise. I could have picked them better (went on a Holland America ship, for a first cruise, where I believe I was among the youngest on board), but still had a grad time on each and every one of them.
After you get tired of all the ATV-ing trips, horseback trips, snorkeling trips, diving trips, parasailing trips, etc, I found just getting off the ship while docked and exploring on my own (which costs nothing) was the best time to be had.
Food is always good (and abundant). Entertainment ranges from fun, to "so what", but the price is right. Meeting interesting people is usually the highlight, though (again, that's free).
I agree with you and gg. Exploring on your own and meeting new people is fun---and free. We've only had one bad cruise. We took one during spring break for colleges...didn't know it. The drunk college students drove us crazy at night. We won't do that again. The food is out of this world on the cruise ships, and we enjoy the casinos with our little hundred dollar limit per day. We usually win a little and lose a little, so it comes out about even---if you hold to your daily limit.
Some senate leaders say a bailout deal for automakers is close. They say it's taking so long because every time they almost get a deal, the car executives say, "I'll have to go and check with my manager".
I just shared that with about 10 of the sales guys here and they are still laughing at it.
Comments
Chrysler dealers were advertising a 2008 charger se+ msrp 23,5xx, employee price(with voucher) 13,3xx, everyone else 14,5xx.
a charger isn't a bad car and those are screaming big deals!
charger se+
Richard
My dad passed last week making me an official orphan. We're pretty shook up but he was six weeks short of 91 so it's not like it was a shock. We did send him out the way he wanted, including finding a dixieland band to play When The Saints Go Marching In at the cemetery.
For the longest time I wanted whatever dad's last car was because dad and cars had a very colorful history. Actually most anything about dad had a colorful history. Back 4 or 5 years as he's ready to turn in his last DeVille he was talking about a BMW which would have made it perfect. He ended up in a Buick Century and immediately regretted it and we only ever got it up to maybe 12K when it was time to turn the lease in. Oh, well. Can't win them all.
Richard
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Tomorrow a close friend from Kindergarden gets to bury her mother. Just a part of life that can't be escaped.
Enjoy your memories and be grateful that he lived a long and colorful life. That generation was so special to this country. Too bad that they are not here now to give us the advice that we so desperately need for our country.
Richard
We did have three Air Force representatives there to do the flag and play taps. Dad was in the Army Air Corps in WWII. Only dad could manage to find an angle in WWII. He was stationed in Arizona and managed to be in charge of things like giving the newly trained pilots a good night on te town before they shipped out. What a deal.
he is also over 90.
it occurred to me that it was stupid wait until he was gone to say goodbye.
much better to spend some time while he is still alive.
he said i'm not going to make it until christmas, so i told him he has to, i already bought his present. i still have time to make it not be a fib.
Send me an email. It's in my profile.
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Sorry Fez, but it doesn't get much better than to reach 91, with what seems to be a pretty good life.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The Hamilton Spectator
(Dec 10, 2008)
Police are trying to figure out why a Hamilton man went on a rampage at a Burlington car dealership, plowing into cars and smashing through the front door.
"He was sober, and there was not a mental health issue with him," said Halton's Sergeant Brian Carr yesterday.
Just before midnight Monday, a man drove a Mazda pickup into the Roseland Volkswagen dealership on Guelph Line and used it as a battering ram to smash into five cars. He then gunned it at the building and crashed through the front doors but became stuck. He managed to jump out and went around the lot urinating on cars before returning to his truck.
"He reached inside and pulled out a bottle of Champagne and a glass, climbed up onto the roof of his truck, dropped his pants and committed an indecent act," Carr said.
Then he started throwing debris at a witness before police arrested him. The Hamilton man, 36, has been charged with mischief over $5,000.
I don't want to buy one of those cars he peed on!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I wasn’t out a few days but I was out last night so I’m catching up too. Sorry to hear about your father but it sounds like you gave him his last wish. It takes a good family to do that.
Someone mentioned the “memories”; they never die because we won’t let them.
My thoughts,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
THE AUTO INDUSTRY BAILOUT
December 10, 2008 - 12:01 am ET
UPDATED: 12/10/08 12:20 a.m.
Agreement reached on $15 billion plan to rescue GM, Chrysler
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The White House and congressional Democrats on Tuesday night reached an agreement in principle on a $15 billion proposal for bailing out U.S. automakers and forcing them to restructure or fail, officials said.
Bush administration official and a Democratic leadership aide said the outline covered key points but final issues needed to be resolved and put in writing.
Democrats have arranged to have the House of Representatives vote on a bill as early as Wednesday and send it to the Senate for consideration.
President George W. Bush and President-elect Barack Obama were both urged by a key lawmaker to help rally support by Democrats and Republicans for the pending measure.
"Bipartisan hard work has paid off," said Democratic Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan whose home state headquarters General Motors, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.
"I understand an agreement has been reached," Levin said in a statement.
The bailout is designed to allow GM and Chrysler to avert threatened bankruptcy through March with short-term loans. Ford Motor Co. is not requesting immediate help but would like a $9 billion line of credit in case its finances worsen.
The parties that negotiated the tentative deal agreed last week that the money would come from an Energy Department fund established in September to help Detroit make more fuel-efficient cars.
Proof of viability
The administration official said the negotiators satisfied the key White House concern in the talks that companies receiving aid obtain the necessary concessions and make other changes to prove they can survive and compete.
In addition to providing loans, the proposal would force automakers to answer to a presidentially appointed trustee -- or "car czar" -- and make the government their biggest shareholder.
The overseer will have powers to shape a restructuring of the companies, withholding further loans if progress toward a turnaround stalled.
A major provision would permit the czar to recommend a bankruptcy restructuring if companies borrowing money fail to obtain the necessary concessions.
Some Republicans wanted some sort of bankruptcy option included as an incentive for labor and other stakeholders to agree on givebacks.
The administration still opposes a Democratic bid to force automakers to drop lawsuits against California and other states seeking to cut auto emissions and other greenhouse gases. The administration official said it was his expectation the bill will not succeed unless that provision is struck.
Another issue raised by Republicans was the use of taxpayer money in the case of Chrysler, which is owned by private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP. During the talks, Democratic aides said the administration resisted a bid to hold Cerberus liable for repayment if Chrysler defaulted on any loan.
It remains unclear if that matter still needs to be clarified.
Filibuster scenario
Democrats control Congress and were expected to be able to muscle a bill through the House. But it was unclear if Republicans could stop a measure in the Senate with a procedural roadblock that requires 60 votes to clear.
"Ball is in the Senate Republicans' court," said Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat. "There is no word yet whether they will give us consent."
A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, said he would decline comment until he saw the bill.
An auto bailout has evoked competing emotions in Congress.
Lawmakers fear if automakers collapse, it would deepen the U.S. recession. But many say market forces, not a government saddled with a record deficit, should determine their fate.
There also is reluctance to provide another federal rescue in the wake of the voter backlash against Congress for its passage of a $700 billion bailout for Wall Street in October.
At the same time, many argue that if Congress provided relief for millionaires in the U.S. financial industry, it should also help blue-collar autoworkers facing unemployment.
A poll by CBS News conducted last week found Americans split on whether taxpayer funds should help automakers.
But more than 65 percent said in exchange for any aid, the government should have a say in the automakers' management and require more fuel-efficient cars.
No mental health issue?
Uh.... a normal person does not do this!
I was thinking last night about how some of the long time posters here seem to have become friends. Yeah, we fight every once in a while. But, overall I can say that all of you have made tough times just a little easier to bare.
joel, while I don't think the "bailout" plan has enough teeth, it's probably a compromise we can all live with. If nothing else, the CEOs have received a big dose of well deserved humility. A month ago, their arrogance was just off the charts.
Let's see if they keep their jobs. Let's also see if these companies can finally put themselves on sound product and financial footing. I think in the end, anything that restores confidence to the American public is a good thing. I only wish the financial markets would adopt a little of that humility. Right now, I don't have any confidence in any of them....that they're ready to do things that are right.
The way I see this playing out, Chrysler has no choice but to merge, AT NO COST, with GM. Daimler and Cerebus have to take the bitter pill. It was their fault that they put chrysler in the predicament they're in. GM, as they've admitted (which is something Chrysler should do, also), needs to step up their quality, while providing products that people want. I think it's obvious that Pontiac is going away. Probably Saturn, too. Jeep may survive. Don't have much hope for the Chrysler or Dodge brands.
Ford, as bad as things are, seem to be sitting in the best position. If they can right their ship, without tapping into the lines of credit, they'll be better off.
Toyota has spent way too much time and energy trying to usurp GM. I don't think the worst times are behind them, yet.
Honda seems to be staying the course. That's not a bad thing.
All the rest, European brands, Korean brands....all of them are going to suffer along side the Detroit brands. Again, a little humility would go a long way in righting their ships if they want to continue success in the U.S.
Joel, I think the longer this has gone on the more people are realizing that we are dealing with three separate entities and when they realize that Ford looks pretty good. I remember when Mulally mortgaged everything and I thought he was crazy. Guess he's smarter than me!
Obviously Ford does buy into the idea that it's bad for them if the other two go down which is why they are supporting the package in Congress.
Maybe the guy owned the dealership and getting the insurance on those cars was the only way he'd ever see the money..... Creative financing.
They are so slick in Cancun. When you get off the plane you see all these booths that say they are INFORMATION booths. You think it is a public service for free. They give you nice maps and brochures, they are all very friendly. Then when you say thank you they tell you all the maps and junk are $10 unless you go to a presentation which includes a buffet lunch...lol. Well, I'd rather pay 10 bucks than suffer through the lunch and fight off swarming sales people. The maps were worth the 10 bucks. :shades:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Uh.... a normal person does not do this!
Exactly my thoughts. Unless it's a normal and common occurence in that city. :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It's the site of what used to be a grand resort that people when to at the turn of last century for the healing properties of the "springs" (which smelled a lot like sulphur) that ran under and around it. The hotel was grand. And, they were planning condos, a golf course, and an entire vacation community around it.
Well, "free" got my attention. And, although in the middle of the boondocks, it was within driving distance. Beautiful room in the hotel. Good meals and a "free couple's massage were promised. But, not until we had to sit through the "presentation".
The rest you guys already know. It was a hard sell for a time share. Our sales guy did things like you guys have described. Telling me how my wife deserved to be treated luxuriously all the time....how we could imagine many romantic weeks of joy, fun, intimacy, etc. On and on he went.
People ringing bells all the time when one of the sales people "closed" someone. Even had charts and graphs of how it was a good financial decision (I never made the connection).
When I didn't crack, he focused on my wife. Long and short of it, she wanted it. I didn't. It was a frosty ride home, to say the least.
I've been back since. Not as a time share customer, but just as a weekend getaway. It has tuned into something of a "destination" location. But, by the time you add in all the fees, the down payment, the yearly stipend, the monetary additions charged to change locations of their "worldwide vacation spots", the deal wasn't really a deal at all.
I agree. Same with the presentation we had. You buy into the plan, and have X amount of points to use in a year, but if you don't use them you can carry the pver to the next year, and you can pay extra to stay longer, or upgrade, or change plans etc......
The way I see it, it's basically a very expensive membership that gives you discounts on their hotels and resorts
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Google it. It's pretty neat.
Mark.
Shows what kind of losers they cater to :sick:
Now what does that tell you? It tells me that GM can build cars that people will buy but that their management must be really, really poor and their expenses are way too high. So what is their plan to fix this?
They want a loan of several billion dollars so they can build cars that will compete with the Japanese. What? Nothing about cutting expenses and making management changes, etc. Did I mention poor management?
At least they were smart enough to go to the right people for help. People who understand the way they think and operate their business. I am sure they will get their "loan".
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I thought about that as well. I believe that the three roosters went to the hen house and got what they wanted.
Richard
Hey, do I resemble that remark? The salesman noted we were intelligent but foolish (not to buy this fab deal!). But he never called us losers. To our face...!
If you know exactly what a timshare is, what you're getting into, it can be fine for some folks. Just be intelligent enough and none too foolish to know it is NOT an investment!
A sad part of the day was our time at the indoor pool/hot tub. There was an older couple there, the gentleman in obvious ill-health. I spoke to his wife, they had bought into this timeshare many years ago. At that time, the spa area was striclty for the timeshare owners. This couple came to use the pool/spa regularly for excersize/therapy as the husband had arthritis, cancer and other (unfortunate) maladies. Now, the pool was open to all the people who came for the presentation and most flaunted the rules of the pool. She complimented my well-behaved kids, but there were a couple of other families where the parents were ignoring the kids who were jumping, screaming, running in/around the pool (ignoring all the posted signs) as this poor older gentleman was trying to do his aqua-excersizes. I really felt bad for those folks. Another timeshare caveat, I guess. The bylaws can change...
At this year's Auto Show, this timeshare outfit had a booth, I entered a contest. I'm expecting my invitation any moment now!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Whereas, if I wanted to go (as I did) for a weekend, with vouchers, deals, etc that you can find fairly easily, it ended up being about $300 for a two night stay in the main hotel. Will I go back? Probably...if the deal is right. But, I doubt I'd do it next year, or the year after that.
There are just too many good travel deals out there right now to commit to one resort chains vacation spots.
I'm a golfer. While that new course is supposed to be nice, I don't know that it will be any nicer than some of the ones that are closer to home for me. And, if I were to go again, I'd probably wouldn't want to do it with a bunch of guys. I consider it more of a romantic getaway. When I do those, I don't take my clubs with me, as I hope to have better things to do.
I've travelled a lot for work. When I want to go for relaxation, I don't think you can do better than a cruise. You got your ocean. You've got your food. You've got your casino (if that's your thing). You've got your shows. You've got different port of calls.
And, right now, you can score a cheap one. Given the included meals and shows, you can do a cruise for much less than a week in any of those vacation membership deals.
We go to Myrtle Beach every year and usually get about 10 calls during the week pitching the time share deal.
My Uncle went once and he got a real nive Nike Driver and 18 Holes at a local course.
He ignored them the whole time and told them that he was leaving with his Driver and golf pass at 11:00 am if they were done or not
The Pete Dye golf course is supposed to be the longest course in the US and is very hilly and narrow. Should be a challenge - especially when I hit short and to the right - but that's another story all together. My wife wanted me to get graphite shafts - I guess so it'd go farther to the right, I'd never find my ball in the woods then.
You're right about the cost - pretty inexpensive usually. The casino is being made to look like the French Lick hotel and no longer like a boat and it's being expanded with a larger high roller area and an in-casino buffet, so it may or may not be slightly different then even this last summer.
To keep on topic, I just bought an 08 Acura MDX with tech package.
The wife and I went to French Lick about 14 years ago... pre-kids. Reminded me a lot of the Overlook Hotel from The Shining... with the long spooky corridors. Kept thinking a crazy guy named Jack would pop around a corner and nail me with an axe. But, it was nice. We may go back one of these years.
Cruise sounds good. Looked into several a couple weeks ago. Only $400 for 7 day Caribbean cruise, eats included, kids free (sold out while we were thinking about it). Reminded me of buying a car though, a lot of mop n glow add ons. You pay the initial fee, then you have a lot of stuff not included in the price, i.e port fee $150 per person, a tipping fee of $15 a day per person, round trip air fare, casino loses, money for booze (for the wife) etc. Still a good deal with all the add-ons... may still end up going this summer.
I am never concerned about the length of a golf course. I need width !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm with ya brother. I'll whack it all day, as long as I can stay away from things like water, trees, tall fescue, dirt, mud, sand, and "out of bounds" signs.
jipster....that hotel does indeed remind me of the "Shining". That movie still creeps me out.
Sometimes tough to do, but if you can stay away from the "art auctions", the jewelry presentations, etc, you can usually do fine on a cruise. Although the one I took with my son for his 21st birthday had him believing since he was legal, it was his duty to drink the bars dry. Good thing he's a rookie. He got sick (and learned a good lesson) the first day on board. Me thinks it was the tequila.
Still ended up with a $350 bar bill, once I added wine with dinner.
Can't imagine a better deal than cruising right now, though.
"I was thinking last night about how some of the long time posters here seem to have become friends. Yeah, we fight every once in a while. But, overall I can say that all of you have made tough times just a little easier to bare. "
Yes sir, we agree to disagree. Not that there's any ego's involved here.
1) Unemployment benefits by and large won't be recoverable from a tax aspect.
2) In that the dealerships and fmc and gmac have sold their loans forward into cdo's and securitized them, we fail face credit crunch II and call into doubt the insurance companies that have guaranteed them adding insult to injury to insult x 10 .
3) The psychological impact of 2.5 -3 million added to the unemployment rolls if we add in thge parts makers/ suppliers/distributors that
will cost us up the wazoo and be cost ineffective.
4) The Chinese take over manufacture of our auto parts, write in personal fear here.
To those that think bankrupting the auto's will solve the UAW. How well has it worked for the airlines? It's a fine mess you've gotten me into Ollie.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Originally opened by the Stanley brothers (of Stanley Steamer fame), there is a Steamer in the lobby. Rooms are decent, if a tad on the small side.
Until the late 70's or early 80's, the hotel was only open in the summer, which meant a caretaker was responsible in the winter months. I can't remember which room Steven King stayed in when he wrote the story, but it's noted in the literature.
All in all, a very cool place to visit if you're ever in this part of the country.
We've been on 8 or 9 and for the money spent there is no greater value to be had anywhere.
They have to fill those cabins and the prices will be jaw dropping. They only hope the bars, casinos, side tours and other offerings will cause them to break even.
Once I learned my lesson on that count, they've all been bargains. Letting a cruise ship sit idle can't be cheap. Letting one cruise half full can't be cheap either.
As I look back, I never had anything less than a grand time on a cruise. I could have picked them better (went on a Holland America ship, for a first cruise, where I believe I was among the youngest on board), but still had a grad time on each and every one of them.
After you get tired of all the ATV-ing trips, horseback trips, snorkeling trips, diving trips, parasailing trips, etc, I found just getting off the ship while docked and exploring on my own (which costs nothing) was the best time to be had.
Food is always good (and abundant). Entertainment ranges from fun, to "so what", but the price is right. Meeting interesting people is usually the highlight, though (again, that's free).
I think I'm talking myself into another one.
The side excursions can be expensive. I agree with you on simply exploring the town on our own.
Richard
I just shared that with about 10 of the sales guys here and they are still laughing at it.
It's good to hear there is some levity in a dealership. I pictured it as being fairly grim because of the uncertainty of the bailout and slow traffic.
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