Jay: There was a 3rd grade teacher in Germany, and she told all the little kids in her class that there wasn't a Santa Claus. Audience: Ahhhh Jay: Well, that's what the government told the auto manufacturers here too!
This was several years ago, but I went to a "buy here/pay here" lot to help my son buy his first car (ended up buying a Saturn from a private owner).
As I walked between the cars, the sales guy approached. I told him what I was looking for....something in decent shape....first car for a teen, etc.
Also told him I was a "cash" buyer. He was very upfront and said "you don't want to shop here".
When I asked why, he said that 99% of their deals were credit deals.
Mentioned a long while ago that I have an acquaintance who owns a BHPH lot (more like a guy I've played golf with a few times). For those of you who are local, this lot is near the former "Big Indian" place. It's been there as long as I can remember.
Even he said that it's extremely rare that he'll sell a car without financing.
Point being, that's where they make their money.....the financing.....not the sale of the car itself.
"Even he said that it's extremely rare that he'll sell a car without financing. "
GG--
I wonder if that business model is likely to change in the foreseeable future? Given that an noticeable percentage of Americans are either losing their jobs, hunkering down for fear of job loss, feeling the credit squeeze, or just despondent over the sad state of their retirement investments/home values--who's buying? Couple that with a broad number of consumers who hold negative equity in their current vehicle because of a combination of puny down-payment and/or excessive depreciation and the market for financed automobiles looks bleak. Or maybe it's just my false perception. :confuse:
Does anyone foresee a move towards loan terms of 36 months or less (which was the norm at one time)? How about an increase in buyers who have cash in hand for the total cost? Perhaps deferring instant gratification will become the new consumer rallying cry. It's apparent that plenty of people used the equity in their home and bought cars under a lax re-fi environment. Significant numbers of those individuals--especially those with less than tier 1 credit--are going to have to ride out their 6, 7, even 8 year loans before buying again. Not very helpful to the car manufacturers or our salesman friends in the short term.
As an optimist I believe that there will be a recovery... eventually.
Top Gear does that all the time. They take a cheap American car and put it against an expensive Euro car. The other day they had a Corvette ZO6 vs a $200K Ferrarri. Guess which car they liked? The one that cost four times as much. They slam American cars all the time on that show and always the American car is always several thousand dollars cheaper. :mad:
Does anyone foresee a move towards loan terms of 36 months or less (which was the norm at one time)?
Probably not, because income levels have not kept with inflation levels over the past couple decades or so.
Who's buying right now? Folks who are not affected by the ecnomy and want to take advantage of deals. Folks who NEED a new vehicle because their old one clapped out, or got totalled, and folks who don't think 3 months into their own future, and usually have lousy credit and a ton of debt, but gotta have a hot ride today.
I have so many customers who are in 72, 84, and even 96 month loans, who know they're upside down, who have bad credit, yet they want to "upgrade" their cars 6 months into their contracts, and don't care if neg equity is transferred over to a new loan. And it's not that they're driving beaters. Most people we finance go into 1-3 year old cars with warranties, no accidents, and so on.
When folks come to us and say they want to rebuild their credit, maybe about 20% of them are really interested in doing that by buying an affordable, low maintenance economical commuter car.
The rest come to us because they must have the hottest ride today. Not only that but they're getting themselves into the same situation that got them in trouble in the first place. Overspending beyond their income.
They want big trucks and SUVs (that they really don't need), or V8 Chrysler 300Cs or V8 Challengers. Many ask for BMWs and Benzes. They would rather shell out $800/month payments for a flashy ride instead of paying off their (already late or closed) credit cards, collections, or other debts.
Some don't even have enought money for a full tank fo gas (one guy asked me for a tank of gas on a new Challenger he wanted to buy cause he didn't have enough money till payday), let alone money for a downpayment, or to pay off their neg equity.
Things will change only if banks tighten their loan requirements, which they already have a bit. The funny thing is we have even more bad credit people applying for financing because they believe that dealers and banks are desperate now and will approve anyone.
They would rather shell out $800/month payments for a flashy ride instead of paying off their (already late or closed) credit cards, collections, or other debts.
A few years ago (I think it was 2003) we refinanced the house for 15 years. You should have heard you know who when I suggested that we do that. The reason we I did it was because the rate had dropped to 4.5% (we were sitting on a 7% loan with about 21/22 years left). I know, I’m a financial genius.
Now the problem. We agreed at the beginning of our marriage that we would never spend more a month on a car payment than we pay for a house and she’s holding me to it. I should never have let her talk me into putting down about 60% of the house. I wanted to go with 30% when we moved back from South Carolina.
Now you know why I have to pay cash. She’s the one who isn’t a payment buyer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Possible Solution. Add 1/12 of your real estate taxes, home owners insurance and umbrella policy to your monthly mortgage payment. Then argue this is your "true" monthly home payment!!!
Now you know why I have to pay cash. She’s the one who isn’t a payment buyer.
Good for her, if there were more people like her we wouldn't be in this mess. The people Boomer sees pay more per month for their car then their rent! I guess in the USA your mortgage payments are tax deductible. We don't have that in Canada. At one time that was a good thing...got people into houses. Now, it just makes people borrow against their house to raise their mortgage payments. Government should put an end to it. Whatever happened to getting all your payments made up to date and trying to live debt free?
I wonder if that business model is likely to change in the foreseeable future?
I would bet right now that that business model is going to stay the same. More and more people over the next year or two will find that the BHPH lots will be their only choice for buying a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
They slam American cars all the time on that show and always the American car is always several thousand dollars cheaper.
This is very possible. But the driver did give specific facts as to why he didn't like the C300. Even taking cost into consideration, would you buy the car after the review he gave the car? If he only drove the C300 there is enough information to see it just isn't up to world class standards.
Top Gear is the show, and they are a rather irreverent bunch.
It is British humour and while they do 'comparisons' and 'reviews' of cars you cannot take it too seriously, after all they don't! They like their exotics and supercars, anything else is fodder. Download a few episodes and have fun watching.
This reminds me of a story. I was at a seminar a few years ago with many "seasoned" CPA's. The instructor asked for a show of hands for anyone who spent more on their last car purchase than the did on their first home they bought.
golic wrote " "This reminds me of a story. I was at a seminar a few years ago with many "seasoned" CPA's. The instructor asked for a show of hands for anyone who spent more on their last car purchase than the did on their first home they bought.
about 75% of the hands went up. " The absolute classic example of inflation. What you paid for a car in a given decade another great example. Transparent accounting of an obviously opaque asset, said somewhat tentatively has led us into this fine mess Ollie. It being neither transparent nor accounting. I long for the good old days of inflation. More and more I appreciate the humor ( Canadians please add a u) of Samuel Clemens who once wrote that the definition of politics came from the Greek word poly meaning many and tics a small blood sucking insect. Mark refused to be corrected on spelling when he was having fun.
A joke that's older than the hills, an engineer, a salesman, and an accountant went into a job interview and were given the question of what 2 + 2 equals. The engineer stated that it equalled exactly four. The saleman stated, I don't know, 4, 5, 6 what does it matter? ( self deprecatory, smile) And the accountant inquired what number would you like it to equal?
Top Gear is the show, and they are a rather irreverent bunch. THX cdn, I'll give it a try, I liked their drive test, they were pretty opinionated, as the Brits can be.
Then again, Top Gear fell all over themselves praising the Honda Clarity (fuel cell car being leased only in CA). They dogged the Tesla in the same show...saying it wasn't reliable (blown fuse controlling electronic assist for the brakes). And, that it only had a range of 55 miles when testing on the track (duh!).
This reminds me of a story. I was at a seminar a few years ago with many "seasoned" CPA's. The instructor asked for a show of hands for anyone who spent more on their last car purchase than the did on their first home they bought.
about 75% of the hands went up.
I get allot of people in my office that tell me that. I always jokingly tell them that we would be happy to trade them the new car for the deed to there house.
With all the doom and gloom regarding the economy, and in particular the auto industry. I'm curious if one of our kind hosts can comment about what/how/why this affects Edmunds?
Are ad revenues affected? Cutbacks? Are the automotive manufacturers "less interested" in what Edmunds provides?
With all the doom and gloom regarding the economy, and in particular the auto industry. I'm curious if one of our kind hosts can comment about what/how/why this affects Edmunds?
Good luck with that one gg. I believe all employees of Edmunds are bound by a contract, signed with their blood, not to provide any information concerning Edmunds business/financial operations. :sick:
Saw this today. That must really scare off buyers for domestic dealers. What are the sales people noticing....is a possible bankrupcy affecting peoples buying decisions? Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy The Associated Press
Thursday, December 18, 2008
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is seriously considering “orderly” bankruptcy as a way of dealing with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry.
“The president is not going to allow a disorderly collapse of the companies,” White House press secretary Dana Perino said Thursday. “A disorderly collapse would be something very chaotic that is a shock to the system.”
But, she added, “There's an orderly way to do bankruptcies that provides for more of a soft landing. I think that's what we would be talking about.”
President George W. Bush, meanwhile, said he had not yet made up his mind what action to take.
Are ad revenues affected? Cutbacks? Are the automotive manufacturers "less interested" in what Edmunds provides?
I was told by a host once that they don't make anywhere near what a UAW worker makes, in fact, more closely towards what a person at McD's makes. Course I was sworn to secrecy regarding the actual numbers.
President George W. Bush, meanwhile, said he had not yet made up his mind what action to take.
Isn't this the same person who recently had two shoes thrown at him by a now popular Iraqi reporter. I hear that person has reached legendary folk hero status.
That must really scare off buyers for domestic dealers.
I think its funny how people think it is business as usual at all the import stores.
Honda
Honda now sees North American sales dropping 14.1 percent to 1.59 million units in the fiscal year. It had predicted an 8.4 percent drop.
"We had no choice but to take various actions in a very short time," Fukui said at a year-end press conference that was hastily bumped up two days ahead of schedule. "The situation is worsening by the day, and there is no immediate prospect for recovery."
Cut jobs in Japan
Like its Japanese rivals, Honda has cut jobs at home and scaled back global production. In addition, the yen that has climbed 18 percent against the dollar since August, which shrinks revenues and earnings from the United States.
Last week Honda pulled out of Formula One racing to save money. But Fukui said more drastic action was needed. Among his new orders:
• Delay openings of two assembly plants in Japan for at least one year.
• Postpone capacity expansions at factories in India and Turkey.
• Scrap plans to launch the Acura brand in Japan in 2010.
• Put off the opening of the new Sakura r&d center in Japan.
• Cancel development of the V-10 NSX sports car.
• Cut high-level executive monthly salaries by 10 percent.
• Delay introduction of large clean-diesel models in the United States and Japan.
For good measure, Honda will cut an additional 450 contract workers by February, bringing total Japanese job cuts to 1,210 this fiscal year. Fukui also trimmed domestic production by another 54,000 units, making this year's global cut 314,000 vehicles.
"All investment will be re-examined from scratch," Fukui said. "The situation is very urgent, and even a slight delay in management decisions could be critical."
Small-car focus
Fukui said Honda would redouble its focus on small, fuel-efficient cars. As part of the push, it make the North American version of the Fit compact at the company's Saitama factory, starting in the spring. That will be in addition to Fit production at its Suzuka plant.
Honda also will be developing an entry-level car smaller than the Fit for sale in emerging economies. It should be ready within three years, Fukui said.
Fukui said he supports a government bailout for the Detroit 3, particularly since a bankruptcy could torpedo Honda's North America supply chain as well. As a precaution, Honda is identifying at-risk suppliers and drafting contingency plans should they also go down.
Fukui said Honda could ship parts from Japan, find alternative components locally or start stockpiling components to keep Honda in operation for one month.
Correct. Contract or not, it would be both unwise and unethical to disclose inside information, including financial and other stats.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Honda now sees North American sales dropping 14.1 percent to 1.59 million units in the fiscal year.
I am sure foreign car sales are down in the US as well as domestics. I was wondering if people were concerned about warranties. It seems Ford could go at least a year without help, for which they deserve a lot of credit - excellent planning.
Seems Honda's plans though pretty drastic are well thought out. A good solid plan that provides a pretty good safety net. I didn't see any similar type of defense in GMs strategic planning. The plan was to not have a plan, probably thought the government would never let GM go under.
I didn't think it was business as usual at the import stores. It has been all over the news that ALL car sales (foreign & domestic) have been down drastically. In my eyes, the big difference is that Honda, Toyota, BMW, Nissan... all remain profitable despite what's going on. The big 3 are losing money.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Profitable? Perhaps, but the problem appears to be that people generally aren't able to get financing, even those with good credit ratings. I can't imagine that the banks are giving preference to Toyota/BMW/Nissan buyers over Ford/GM/Chrysler. Ford does remain profitable but I'm not so sure about, e.g., BMW. Their sales are down some 25% or so which has to cut deeply into profit margins.
BMW sales are down due to their subsidized leases no longer being profitable to BMW. Most buyers it seems are aware that the best deal was those leases and buying a BMW is not something one would want to do.
My banker told me the best way to get financing for a car is to pay cash for it then apply for a loan. I had to think twice about that one.
driver100 wrote : "Saw this today. That must really scare off buyers for domestic dealers. What are the sales people noticing....is a possible bankrupcy affecting peoples buying decisions? Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy. " That is depressing. Lame ducks should stay that way. If only our politicians had taken a business course or three. I see an orderly bankruptcy acheiving only these. 1) The big three auto sales stagger even further as consumer confidence is shaken more by fears of service continuity. The perception is more important than the reality. 2) The uaw is not disbanded by bankruptcy or the airlines would have been beneficiaries. So production is downsized and federal/ state payments rise, unemployment rises and not just for the three. 3)The psychological impact proves that rhetoric and $2.54 will get you a cup of coffee, not the small cup , at Starbucks. This country's consumer confidence declines more, there is credit crunch II as the dealers who securitize auto loans are left in the void and the market for securitized loans evaporates. The insurance industry's viability is called into question once more since they back said instruments. And the economic costs of this debacle escalate. Never endear financial hysteria, it's really expensive and moral positions goeth quickly before a fall. Here's hoping we survive our politicians, the only big picture they know is a plasma.
kirstie....I certainly understand the need to keep confidential information, confidential. However, I was under the impression that Edmunds was a public company, or tied to a public company.
Reports: Toyota vehicle operations to post loss By YURI KAGEYAMA – 8 hours ago
TOKYO (AP) — Toyota's mainstay vehicle operations are likely to post their first ever loss for the fiscal year through March 2009, Japanese media reports said Friday, highlighting the dire conditions faced by global automakers.
The Nikkei, Japan's top business daily, said Toyota's standalone operating result will be a loss for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009. It did not cite sources. Kyodo News had a similar report.
The reports said that the Toyota group of companies — including Daihatsu Motor Co., which makes small cars, and truckmaker Hino Motors — will manage to post a profit for the fiscal year through March 2009.
Everyone is profitable right up until they are not any more. Sounds stupid but thats the way it works. Ford was profitable for years until the slide came.
People are going to have to face it. Toyota has peaked. They followed the path of the domestics even though they saw the train wreck happen right before there eyes. In there quest to be #1 they started selling programs instead of product. Kind of like when some one touches something and burns there finger so you feel the need to touch it to instead of learning from the first guys mistakes.
BTW guess who had the book ends on two of the top ten sellers this year?
I'd bet big $ that Toyota and Honda will be fine, and I'm not a big risk-taker. Toyota has more cash in the vault than any car maker, and the entire Toyota group of companies combined will still be turning a profit this year. Yes, both Toyota and Honda are down, but it is no different than anyone else. Honda has laid out lots of spending cuts just like Toyota. Toyota, in a strange twist, just announced that they are speeding up the production of the new Highlander by six months to "keep people working".
They both have excellent small cars, and they have the know-how and $$ to produce them efficiently. I truly wish the same could be said about the US big three.
I think I reported that my local Toyota dealer is down, but still doing just fine, especially on sales of the Camry and smaller models.
Hmmmmmm a bunch of suits that don't even know what a car credit app looks like and wouldn't know a buyer if he kicked them in the [non-permissible content removed] or two guys in the trenches every day????????
Chrysler announced that as of Friday, it will shut down its 30 manufacturing plants for at least a month. The company blames lower demand for its vehicles in the tightening consumer credit market. Chrysler is the last of the big three automakers to announce such a cutback; last week GM took approximately 250,000 vehicles out of production, temporarily closing 20 factories. Ford added a week to its annual two-week shutdown.
Chrysler says dealers nationwide confirm that the market is strong in terms of consumer interest, but that dealerships are often "unable to close the deal" as prospective buyers are unable to obtain financing. The company estimates that sales volume has dropped 20-25% due to the lack of available consumer credit.
Affected employees will be eligible for state unemployment benefits and some benefits from the companies, but will not receive full pay during the layoff.
Now the real question is the lack of credit demographic wide? Or is it just the people who are upside, seeking 72/84 months and getting into a car they have no business driving?
I guess I will find out soon. As I my lease is up and I am in the market for a new car.
Chrysler says dealers nationwide confirm that the market is strong in terms of consumer interest, but that dealerships are often "unable to close the deal" as prospective buyers are unable to obtain financing. The company estimates that sales volume has dropped 20-25% due to the lack of available consumer credit.
That in a nut shell is why Chrysler is in the crapper. If you are going under and losing 25% of you sales to financing then you pick up the phone, call your captive and say "Start lending some damn money"
Now granted, the last month or so they have been telling them anything they want to hear in order to get the loan they got today.
Comments
Audience: Ahhhh
Jay: Well, that's what the government told the auto manufacturers here too!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As I walked between the cars, the sales guy approached. I told him what I was looking for....something in decent shape....first car for a teen, etc.
Also told him I was a "cash" buyer. He was very upfront and said "you don't want to shop here".
When I asked why, he said that 99% of their deals were credit deals.
Mentioned a long while ago that I have an acquaintance who owns a BHPH lot (more like a guy I've played golf with a few times). For those of you who are local, this lot is near the former "Big Indian" place. It's been there as long as I can remember.
Even he said that it's extremely rare that he'll sell a car without financing.
Point being, that's where they make their money.....the financing.....not the sale of the car itself.
GG--
I wonder if that business model is likely to change in the foreseeable future? Given that an noticeable percentage of Americans are either losing their jobs, hunkering down for fear of job loss, feeling the credit squeeze, or just despondent over the sad state of their retirement investments/home values--who's buying? Couple that with a broad number of consumers who hold negative equity in their current vehicle because of a combination of puny down-payment and/or excessive depreciation and the market for financed automobiles looks bleak. Or maybe it's just my false perception. :confuse:
Does anyone foresee a move towards loan terms of 36 months or less (which was the norm at one time)? How about an increase in buyers who have cash in hand for the total cost? Perhaps deferring instant gratification will become the new consumer rallying cry. It's apparent that plenty of people used the equity in their home and bought cars under a lax re-fi environment. Significant numbers of those individuals--especially those with less than tier 1 credit--are going to have to ride out their 6, 7, even 8 year loans before buying again. Not very helpful to the car manufacturers or our salesman friends in the short term.
As an optimist I believe that there will be a recovery... eventually.
Gogiboy
Probably not, because income levels have not kept with inflation levels over the past couple decades or so.
Who's buying right now? Folks who are not affected by the ecnomy and want to take advantage of deals. Folks who NEED a new vehicle because their old one clapped out, or got totalled, and folks who don't think 3 months into their own future, and usually have lousy credit and a ton of debt, but gotta have a hot ride today.
I have so many customers who are in 72, 84, and even 96 month loans, who know they're upside down, who have bad credit, yet they want to "upgrade" their cars 6 months into their contracts, and don't care if neg equity is transferred over to a new loan. And it's not that they're driving beaters. Most people we finance go into 1-3 year old cars with warranties, no accidents, and so on.
When folks come to us and say they want to rebuild their credit, maybe about 20% of them are really interested in doing that by buying an affordable, low maintenance economical commuter car.
The rest come to us because they must have the hottest ride today. Not only that but they're getting themselves into the same situation that got them in trouble in the first place. Overspending beyond their income.
They want big trucks and SUVs (that they really don't need), or V8 Chrysler 300Cs or V8 Challengers. Many ask for BMWs and Benzes. They would rather shell out $800/month payments for a flashy ride instead of paying off their (already late or closed) credit cards, collections, or other debts.
Some don't even have enought money for a full tank fo gas (one guy asked me for a tank of gas on a new Challenger he wanted to buy cause he didn't have enough money till payday), let alone money for a downpayment, or to pay off their neg equity.
Things will change only if banks tighten their loan requirements, which they already have a bit. The funny thing is we have even more bad credit people applying for financing because they believe that dealers and banks are desperate now and will approve anyone.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
A few years ago (I think it was 2003) we refinanced the house for 15 years. You should have heard you know who when I suggested that we do that. The reason
weI did it was because the rate had dropped to 4.5% (we were sitting on a 7% loan with about 21/22 years left). I know, I’m a financial genius.Now the problem. We agreed at the beginning of our marriage that we would never spend more a month on a car payment than we pay for a house and she’s holding me to it. I should never have let her talk me into putting down about 60% of the house. I wanted to go with 30% when we moved back from South Carolina.
Now you know why I have to pay cash. She’s the one who isn’t a payment buyer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Hope it works!!
Good for her, if there were more people like her we wouldn't be in this mess. The people Boomer sees pay more per month for their car then their rent! I guess in the USA your mortgage payments are tax deductible. We don't have that in Canada. At one time that was a good thing...got people into houses. Now, it just makes people borrow against their house to raise their mortgage payments. Government should put an end to it. Whatever happened to getting all your payments made up to date and trying to live debt free?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
OK, when I have a weak senior moment, I might try that but if you guys don't hear from me for a while, it's your fault.
Hey, maybe I'll get a 'sympathy reduction' on my dues for that period. I'll settle for anything after taking that right-hook.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would bet right now that that business model is going to stay the same. More and more people over the next year or two will find that the BHPH lots will be their only choice for buying a car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not the mortgage payment itself, just the interest amount and property taxes.
We have it made down here. Plus we get to bail-out everybody that has a hand.
Wanna move?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This is very possible. But the driver did give specific facts as to why he didn't like the C300. Even taking cost into consideration, would you buy the car after the review he gave the car? If he only drove the C300 there is enough information to see it just isn't up to world class standards.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It is British humour and while they do 'comparisons' and 'reviews' of cars you cannot take it too seriously, after all they don't!
It's clearly time to move ... and buy a new house. :shades:
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
about 75% of the hands went up.
"This reminds me of a story. I was at a seminar a few years ago with many "seasoned" CPA's. The instructor asked for a show of hands for anyone who spent more on their last car purchase than the did on their first home they bought.
about 75% of the hands went up. "
The absolute classic example of inflation. What you paid for a car in a given decade another great example. Transparent accounting of an obviously opaque asset, said somewhat tentatively has led us into this fine mess Ollie.
It being neither transparent nor accounting.
I long for the good old days of inflation. More and more I appreciate the humor ( Canadians please add a u) of Samuel Clemens who once wrote that the definition of politics came from the Greek word poly meaning many and tics a small blood sucking insect. Mark refused to be corrected on spelling when he was having fun.
A joke that's older than the hills, an engineer, a salesman, and an accountant went into a job interview and were given the question of what 2 + 2 equals. The engineer stated that it equalled exactly four. The saleman stated, I don't know, 4, 5, 6 what does it matter? ( self deprecatory, smile) And the accountant inquired what number would you like it to equal?
THX cdn, I'll give it a try, I liked their drive test, they were pretty opinionated, as the Brits can be.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
about 75% of the hands went up.
I get allot of people in my office that tell me that. I always jokingly tell them that we would be happy to trade them the new car for the deed to there house.
Are ad revenues affected? Cutbacks? Are the automotive manufacturers "less interested" in what Edmunds provides?
Good luck with that one gg. I believe all employees of Edmunds are bound by a contract, signed with their blood, not to provide any information concerning Edmunds business/financial operations. :sick:
Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy
The Associated Press
Thursday, December 18, 2008
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is seriously considering “orderly” bankruptcy as a way of dealing with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry.
“The president is not going to allow a disorderly collapse of the companies,” White House press secretary Dana Perino said Thursday. “A disorderly collapse would be something very chaotic that is a shock to the system.”
But, she added, “There's an orderly way to do bankruptcies that provides for more of a soft landing. I think that's what we would be talking about.”
President George W. Bush, meanwhile, said he had not yet made up his mind what action to take.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I was told by a host once that they don't make anywhere near what a UAW worker makes, in fact, more closely towards what a person at McD's makes. Course I was sworn to secrecy regarding the actual numbers.
Isn't this the same person who recently had two shoes thrown at him by a now popular Iraqi reporter. I hear that person has reached legendary folk hero status.
I think its funny how people think it is business as usual at all the import stores.
Honda
Honda now sees North American sales dropping 14.1 percent to 1.59 million units in the fiscal year. It had predicted an 8.4 percent drop.
"We had no choice but to take various actions in a very short time," Fukui said at a year-end press conference that was hastily bumped up two days ahead of schedule. "The situation is worsening by the day, and there is no immediate prospect for recovery."
Cut jobs in Japan
Like its Japanese rivals, Honda has cut jobs at home and scaled back global production. In addition, the yen that has climbed 18 percent against the dollar since August, which shrinks revenues and earnings from the United States.
Last week Honda pulled out of Formula One racing to save money. But Fukui said more drastic action was needed. Among his new orders:
• Delay openings of two assembly plants in Japan for at least one year.
• Postpone capacity expansions at factories in India and Turkey.
• Scrap plans to launch the Acura brand in Japan in 2010.
• Put off the opening of the new Sakura r&d center in Japan.
• Cancel development of the V-10 NSX sports car.
• Cut high-level executive monthly salaries by 10 percent.
• Delay introduction of large clean-diesel models in the United States and Japan.
For good measure, Honda will cut an additional 450 contract workers by February, bringing total Japanese job cuts to 1,210 this fiscal year. Fukui also trimmed domestic production by another 54,000 units, making this year's global cut 314,000 vehicles.
"All investment will be re-examined from scratch," Fukui said. "The situation is very urgent, and even a slight delay in management decisions could be critical."
Small-car focus
Fukui said Honda would redouble its focus on small, fuel-efficient cars. As part of the push, it make the North American version of the Fit compact at the company's Saitama factory, starting in the spring. That will be in addition to Fit production at its Suzuka plant.
Honda also will be developing an entry-level car smaller than the Fit for sale in emerging economies. It should be ready within three years, Fukui said.
Fukui said he supports a government bailout for the Detroit 3, particularly since a bankruptcy could torpedo Honda's North America supply chain as well. As a precaution, Honda is identifying at-risk suppliers and drafting contingency plans should they also go down.
Fukui said Honda could ship parts from Japan, find alternative components locally or start stockpiling components to keep Honda in operation for one month.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
The NSX delayed yet again. I think it's like 10 years overdue now.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I thought they had been discontinued years ago but I guess not.
I know they weren't good sellers.
I am sure foreign car sales are down in the US as well as domestics. I was wondering if people were concerned about warranties. It seems Ford could go at least a year without help, for which they deserve a lot of credit - excellent planning.
Seems Honda's plans though pretty drastic are well thought out. A good solid plan that provides a pretty good safety net. I didn't see any similar type of defense in GMs strategic planning. The plan was to not have a plan, probably thought the government would never let GM go under.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/nsx/2010/review.html
Profitable? Perhaps, but the problem appears to be that people generally aren't able to get financing, even those with good credit ratings. I can't imagine that the banks are giving preference to Toyota/BMW/Nissan buyers over Ford/GM/Chrysler. Ford does remain profitable but I'm not so sure about, e.g., BMW. Their sales are down some 25% or so which has to cut deeply into profit margins.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
My banker told me the best way to get financing for a car is to pay cash for it then apply for a loan. I had to think twice about that one.
"Saw this today. That must really scare off buyers for domestic dealers. What are the sales people noticing....is a possible bankrupcy affecting peoples buying decisions?
Bush considering 'orderly' auto bankruptcy. "
That is depressing. Lame ducks should stay that way. If only our politicians had taken a business course or three. I see an orderly bankruptcy acheiving only these.
1) The big three auto sales stagger even further as consumer confidence is shaken more by fears of service continuity. The perception is more important than the reality.
2) The uaw is not disbanded by bankruptcy or the airlines would have been beneficiaries. So production is downsized and federal/ state payments rise, unemployment rises and not just for the three.
3)The psychological impact proves that rhetoric and $2.54 will get you a cup of coffee, not the small cup , at Starbucks. This country's consumer confidence declines more, there is credit crunch II as the dealers who securitize auto loans are left in the void and the market for securitized loans evaporates. The insurance industry's viability is called into question once more since they back said instruments. And the economic costs of this debacle escalate. Never endear financial hysteria, it's really expensive and moral positions goeth quickly before a fall. Here's hoping we survive our politicians, the only big picture they know is a plasma.
Actually, Dubya has an MBA from Harvard ('75).
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Correct, or not?
By YURI KAGEYAMA – 8 hours ago
TOKYO (AP) — Toyota's mainstay vehicle operations are likely to post their first ever loss for the fiscal year through March 2009, Japanese media reports said Friday, highlighting the dire conditions faced by global automakers.
The Nikkei, Japan's top business daily, said Toyota's standalone operating result will be a loss for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2009. It did not cite sources. Kyodo News had a similar report.
The reports said that the Toyota group of companies — including Daihatsu Motor Co., which makes small cars, and truckmaker Hino Motors — will manage to post a profit for the fiscal year through March 2009.
Toyota declined comment on the reports.
For more, go to;
Toyota 1st loss
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Financing is alive and well despite what the miserable media would like us to believe!
We don't do the sub-prime stuff but for our normal customers it's business as usual with the banks, credit unions and through Honda!
Hell things are so good on the finance end right now I could even get Oldfarmer or Jmonroe bought right now.
People are going to have to face it. Toyota has peaked. They followed the path of the domestics even though they saw the train wreck happen right before there eyes. In there quest to be #1 they started selling programs instead of product. Kind of like when some one touches something and burns there finger so you feel the need to touch it to instead of learning from the first guys mistakes.
BTW guess who had the book ends on two of the top ten sellers this year?
top 10 sellers 2008
They both have excellent small cars, and they have the know-how and $$ to produce them efficiently. I truly wish the same could be said about the US big three.
I think I reported that my local Toyota dealer is down, but still doing just fine, especially on sales of the Camry and smaller models.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The media is one thing but representatives from the Big 3 are also making that claim. I'm not sure who to believe but I'm glad you're doing well.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Hmmmmmm a bunch of suits that don't even know what a car credit app looks like and wouldn't know a buyer if he kicked them in the [non-permissible content removed] or two guys in the trenches every day????????
Chrysler announced that as of Friday, it will shut down its 30 manufacturing plants for at least a month. The company blames lower demand for its vehicles in the tightening consumer credit market. Chrysler is the last of the big three automakers to announce such a cutback; last week GM took approximately 250,000 vehicles out of production, temporarily closing 20 factories. Ford added a week to its annual two-week shutdown.
Chrysler says dealers nationwide confirm that the market is strong in terms of consumer interest, but that dealerships are often "unable to close the deal" as prospective buyers are unable to obtain financing. The company estimates that sales volume has dropped 20-25% due to the lack of available consumer credit.
Affected employees will be eligible for state unemployment benefits and some benefits from the companies, but will not receive full pay during the layoff.
Now the real question is the lack of credit demographic wide? Or is it just the people who are upside, seeking 72/84 months and getting into a car they have no business driving?
I guess I will find out soon. As I my lease is up and I am in the market for a new car.
LoL! Two of them just filled out credit apps themselves and the President is about to sign off $18B or so this very morning.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That in a nut shell is why Chrysler is in the crapper. If you are going under and losing 25% of you sales to financing then you pick up the phone, call your captive and say "Start lending some damn money"
Now granted, the last month or so they have been telling them anything they want to hear in order to get the loan they got today.