We are a Ford store so we are not really worried about the Bridge Loan, if it happens it happens. The more I think about it the more I think we could survive GM going under.
As far as business goes people got to remember that we are ALWAYS slow in December. We looked this morning and we are only 6 units off last December.
Actually, December has always been a very good month for us. The week before Christmas is slow but between Christmas and New Years is gangbusters! Nobody takes a day off!
joel...isell...said it before, out of all the marks sold in this country, I feel Ford and Honda are in the best shape. If I were Ford, I'd start the marketing blitz now. I'd turn down the "bailout" offer. I'd tell the world that Ford will stand alone as the one U.S. car maker that has stood the test of time (maybe show some old sepia pictures of good 'ole Henry working on a Model "A"). And, will continue to do so, even though the competitors are all begging for tax payer money. I'd then follow up with vintage scenes of Mustangs, F-150s, Tauri, all the successes Ford has had in the past. Then, I'd fade into pictures of the new products.
Man, I'd chomp at the bit to work on that marketing campaign.
Honda's putting out the same "feel good" marketing. "We're here. We're still making good, reliable cars that people want. That's a good message.
Was there a reality TV show about car salesmen? Kind of like that airplane show they had on PBS I think, where they showed all the bad flights and things that happen. Seems to me somebody at work was telling me about a family car business. If it is still on I'd watch it. Don't know why car sales seems interesting to me and the people that are here. Maybe it's the last of the gladiators or primitive man....just one guy trying to fight the public and bring them in for the slaying.
I hated that show. It personified every stereotype of this business that we try to live down every day. That guy was just a punk playing with a toy (the dealership) that his daddy gave him.
But I will say this. They sold the crap out of some cars. His infomercial and Blue Genie work.
I just saw (part) of the movie on Saturday for the first time. The DVR didn't record it all, so I am waiting on a dvd i bought on Ebay to arrive so I can see the ending. Realizing that there are a ton of movies out there that I have missed, I am tempted to get a Netflix membership. Previously I had searched the net for some background info on the Shining, so your post confused me a bit. It looks like the Stanley provided the inspiration but the actual exterior of the hotel in the movie is the Timberline in Mt. Hood, OR. I'd love to visit both. King's room was 217 but was changed to 237 IIRC in the movie.
fezo, my condolences to your family. GP, you hang in there!
Don't forget Toyota, they practically have enough money in the bank to buy both Ford and Honda.
I saw that Honda is dropping out of F1 racing, but Toyota is not. That seems very strange, considering Honda is supposedly the "sportier" car make?
Picked up some oil filters the other day at the Toyota parts dept., and asked the parts guy about sales. He said new car sales were a little slow, but they were doing great, considering the economy sucks! He said Corolla, Camry, and Yaris sales were UP for this dealer, compared to last year.
All this said, you really have to look at total US sales, and Nov. sales were down about 30% for all three - Toyota, Honda, and Ford. I am sure someone can get the exact numbers.
If you are thinking about Netflix, then also investigate Blockbuster's online plan which you will probably find better. In addition to returning by mail, Blockbuster allows you to drop off at the store and they'll scan as returned, which then puts you back in the queue to have the warehouse send you your next in queue. This eliminates mail delays in getting the DVD back to Blockbuster before they send you the next. I just throw them in the outdoor return slot. I usually receive a new mailing shipped in 24 hrs of drop off, and received the following day.
Also, depending on your plan, you will get some number of free rentals at the store. Just take your online DVD up to the register with a new rental from the store, and you checkout for free. I get 5 free rentals a month.
Now to keep this on topic.......as you are out driving in your new wheels or on a test drive, if you regularly pass or are near a BB store this is a better plan than Netflix. If you are out in the boonies and only do mail, then the plans would be equivalent.
Toyota has a mild case of GMnitis. Nowhere near GM, of course, but they are not without real problems - their profitability also fell dramatically, not only sales. In quest for number 1 they lost a little quality (too quick absorption of suppliers without full integration of quality) and succumbed a little to big cash-back trap.
Exactly Dino, I was really suprised that they did not learn from the mistakes of those before them. Being the biggest cost allot more. They keep trying to get in the truck biz but are making the same mistakes as allot of us have. They are selling the programs instead of the trucks.
Exactly Dino, I was really suprised that they did not learn from the mistakes of those before them.
Just read a business article about the largest media company in Canada which is really suffering after buying too many TV and radio stations as well as a national newspaper which has become a money pit. One businessman was quoted as saying, "The trouble with building an empire is that they never last". Seems the #1 always gets knocked off eventually.
>"The trouble with building an empire is that they never last"
Which is why most Tribes in places like Afghanistan, Northern Pakistan or Iraq are not much interested in being part of a huge government. Their tribes seems to last longer than any government empire :sick:
dino....I'm with you regarding Toyota. They've been so focused on overtaking GM, they lost site of their bread and butter. That is making reliable (albeit a bit boring) cars.
They also went the way of GM in making trucks/SUVs so much of their product lineup, they're having difficulty moving them.
Quality has slipped, too.
Not that any of that can't be reversed. And, they do have cash. But, it's not all "peaches and cream" for them.
RE: Toyota - They've been so focused on overtaking GM,
The thing is any time a company expands that rapidly they will make some mistakes, some stuff just falls betweeen the cracks. Also, they don't care as much because they are selling more than they ever did. Increasing sales is good, but trying to maintain the quality is often impossible. Overall, they have done amazingly well, considering their rapid growth, and it is just the normal course of events when a company grows rapidly, not ideal, but expected.
This happened yesterday, about 11:00 AM. I up a guy and his wife on the lot, he says he only has so much time to demo because he promised to take his wife shopping.
He wants a new 09 A4 blk/tan with nothing but premium, blue tooth, and wood package. Now this is a hard car to find, so I pull up the closest thing I have. He asks me about deals, and I give him the national advertised specials. All very broad, and nothing specific. He won't drive the car, he just leaves me his # and asks me to find him one just how he wants it.
I locate one in state, and give him a couple of hours to do his shopping, and then leave him a message saying I found car, but the most important thing is that he come in, and let me do a proper demo so that he feels like this is the right car.
He say's I don't need to drive it, I just need the deal you said. 0 down $429.00 a month. I respond, sir I never said there was a car available for that price, I said there are some lease specials with tax credits, blah, blah blah.
At this point he starts going coo coo for co co puffs on the phone. Screaming about how he is "no one to "F" with, and he know's people, and I better get ready, because it's gonna come down on me".
I stay very calm and say sir, I don't appreciate being cussed at, maybe we should talk when you are a little more calm. How about I have my manager call you?
He goes in to the same rant, and then when my manager calls, he gives him the same screaming, cussing routine. He says he's recording everything, and we better get ready because it's gonna come down on us.
I don't go a week to ten days with out getting some one like that. My favorites are the ones when some one calls me and chews me out because another dealership charged them a double digit rate. It is amazing how many people think we all work for Ford and are all business associates.
Hell I have got it from people on this site before who will go off for no reason.
Thankfully I haven't had a call like that in awhile. Isn't Christmas the time of year that has the most suicides? All that holiday cheer will push some folks over the edge.
GP, hope all is well. Been catching up on all the posts. Don't get your head too far into a bottle.
Porsche store looks awesome with the holiday decorations and giant bows. We had a showroom full of classic 356's while I was gone. I wish I could have seen that in person.
That's because you're all giant, lying sacks of ....
Geez, what's wrong with people? I do admire the amount of abuse you have to put up with. People not so into the holiday spirit, eh?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Screaming about how he is "no one to "F" with, and he know's people, and I better get ready, because it's gonna come down on me".
You see, you car sales guys have all the fun. Actually, as bad as it seems, most jobs dealing with the public will have there fair share of these types to deal with. I have a friend that does heating and air conditioning. He tells me horror stories about what people do or say when he tells them their 15 year old furnace needs parts. They really hate paying for new furnace parts that they can't show off to friends.
The other day he had a lady customer that he said was a really looker...told her she needed a part that would cost $180, and she purrrrred, mmmmmm, I don't actually pay cash for most of my repairs..........
How would you like to answer that one.
Hey Moo....any news about the auto scene in China?
There's a Chevy Traverse ad on the right hand side of the screen.....and the seats all flip different directions. That's a nice looking vehicle, just a little late maybe!
A funny movie from the (IIRC) '80s. Jack Warden and Kurt Russel star. I'm fairly sure the late of this forum Deskman was familiar with it as I believe that he used the nom de plume of one of the characters in his profile...
I still use one quote, cleaned up of course, when I believe an item to be overpriced. If anyone is familiar with the flick, or sees it, I'll bet you can identify which quote!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Good story dhamilton. I have a feeling he's all talk and no action kinda person. "I know this I know that, blah blah blah..........." What did he drive do you remember?
Your story reminded me of a customer we sold 2 weeks ago. And we started off on the wrong foot too.
I get a call from a customer that she and her husband (in their 40s) want to come down and get pre approved. She got my number from a friend of mine who she works with.
So they show up about 2 hours later, and told me they were at another dealer, and that dealer said they'll approve them (big difference between said and would), but they weren't happy there so they came to me.
Ok, fair enough, I get her info, and we run her credit, and she has no credit history, other than a fresh credit card. Plus she's got no driver license. The hubby tells me she'll finance, and he'll insure it and drive because he has a driver's license. But he doesn't want to get his credit checked (probably cause it sucks, but he wouldn't say).
I told him it'll be difficult because in most cases, banks will not finance a car and let you insure under someone else's name. I tell the hubby he'll need to be on the contract too.
He disagrees with me and says no way. After going back and forth I get my manager in to chat with them.
The hubby says that you can buy a car without a driver's license. We say, yeah, if you pay cash. You can buy it and do whatever you want with it. But if you want financing, the bank requires you to have a driver's license.
He says no, mgr says yes, he says no, mgr says yes (exactly word for word). He says he checked at the insurance agency. My mgr says they insurance agency is not the one issuing loans. He wants to talk to the banker. We tell him to go and call the banker himself. We pull out an approval page for another customer (we blocked out the name), that says APPROVED, with stipulations at the bottom that says "must have valid driver's license). The hubby doesn't want to hear it.
He tells us that the other place would finance them without a driver's license. My mgr asks "Then why didn't you buy it there?" Customer studders and says "They didn't have what I liked over there". Highly unlikely cause the other dealer is bigger than ours and part of a giant group.
Then he goes off on a rant how we don't deserve any government and taxpayers help, and that we shouldn't lend banks' money, instead we should put up our own money for loans (didn't make sense), and he says thats us "dealers, don't deserve bailout money or any loans" in a raised voice.
My quick witted mgr responds: " We're not asking for any loans, you're the one here asking for a loan" The customer responds: "I'm not asking for a loan" Mgr: "Then what are you doing here?" Customer gets ticked off and walks out. Surprisingly, customer's wife is still sittng quietly.
She asks, why am I declined?
Mgr says,"I didn't even says the word declined. I was trying to explain to you how the approval process works. But your husband wouldn't listen. I think I sold a few more cars in my lifetime than he did, so next time you guys come to professionals for advice, you should hear as to what they have to say to you"
She leaves and 10 minutes later comes back with the husband. He's turns into the nicest guy you'd ever meet. :surprise:
To make a long story short, their own bank that they claimed would approve them, declined them instantly, and so did many other ones.
We finally did get them approved and he agreed to be on the contract. They're both happy , and he continues being courteous to us and my mgr who he was yelling at.
She got my number from a friend of mine who she works with.
Sounds like 2 psychos. And they were sent over by a friend? Boom, better tell your friend to only send normal people.
Also, not sure your manager handled it the best way possible, even though it did work out in the end.
My quick witted mgr responds: " We're not asking for any loans, you're the one here asking for a loan" (* I think he means Chrysler is asking for government loans) The customer responds: "I'm not asking for a loan" Mgr: "Then what are you doing here?"
By arguing back the supposed customer has no choice but to argue back even more. Maybe a simple.....I understand what you are saying sir, but the rules actually do state the person wanting a loan does have to have a drivers license, and I can show you an example....proceed as you did showing a sample - that was smart. The idea is not to accuse, not to escalate the disagreement, but to talk in a calm logical manner. My wife is a family therapist by trade and my tendency is to argue back, but it just doesn't work....just gets worse. I am learning!
Not much to report. I saw a new Nissan that looked like the Maxima over there. Looked great. I also saw a Black on Black Cayenne S that I'm pretty sure I sold and was shipped over there by a broker.
The driving is crazy as usual. I actually got a video of a cab ride in Macau. We were driving through downtown and some of the surrounding hills during the night time. It was awesome. The video looks like something out of the Bourne Supremacy. One lane roads, elevated speeds, whipping by all manner of traffic and weaving around everyone. It was fun!
Oddly enough, there didn't seem to be as many people in the cities this time around. I'm sure that it was just my imagination, but it didn't seem as crowded as the last time I went.
All the cabs were VW's. I saw a ton of Hondas that were suped up as boy racers. I saw a Skyline and a bunch of Toyotas and Lexuses. AND, Buicks are still beloved over there. I saw tons of Honda Fits (Jazz) being driven around. Subcompacts are pretty popular there too. Not many SUV's in the city. I think space is a major issue.
If anyone wants an eye opener, take a walk through downtown Hong Kong at rush hour. The crush of people is overwhelming!
All in all, it was a fun trip. Lots of travelling, but I'm very glad to be back in my own bed.
I don't understand why anyone has to be uncivil when they're buying (or selling) something.
Not a car sales story, but when I was in charge of a sales staff in the tech industry, I was traveling with a rep and his manager. Come to think of it, it was right about this same time a couple of years ago. We were trying to close a "bigger" deal at the end of the quarter and the rep says he can't get the purchasing agent to move on it.
He sets up an appointment. We get to the company about 15 minutes before our appointment. Announce ourselves to the receptionist. She calls the purchasing guy to tell him we're in the lobby. She asks us to take a seat. We wait, and we wait.....20 minutes, 30 minutes.....45 minutes. Finally I get up to ask the receptionist to call the purchasing guy, again. She does. I can hear him on the other end of the phone ranting something, but couldn't make out what.
We sit back down. Wait another 15 minutes. Finally, I go to the receptionist and tell her we have to leave and we'll contact the purchasing guy another time.
Understand, it was at not small cost that I flew in, got a hotel room, rented a car, just to see this guy, when the appointment was made.
Anyway, receptionist, who was embarrassed by this point, calls the purchasing guy, again, telling him we're about to leave. She hangs up and says "he's on his way down".
Sure enough, a couple of minutes later, he he comes with a stern look on his face. He immediately lights up the sales rep....telling him how busy he is.
I finally introduce myself, shake his hand and intercede. I nicely tell the purchasing guy that I'm confused...maybe he can help with my confusion.
He says...."shoot"!
GG-"didn't the sales rep make an appointment?" P-"I don't remember". GG-"well, if he didn't, you have my apologies. But, we're here now. Can't we just have 10 minutes of your time and then we'll be off."
He agrees, reluctantly. We all head to his office and sit down. I immediately see his "day timer" laying open on his desk. I see that he did indeed have my reps name slotted in the designated time for the appointment. He spies me looking at the day timer.
Kind of sheepishly, he stumbles out with "I must have forgotten our appointment and got tied up away from my office".
GG-"not a problem. That'll happen from time-to-time."
Finally, I ask him what's holding up the contract. He stumbles a bit more, talking about how he's been swamped with work and hadn't got around to it.
GG-"totally understand. All I need is your signature. And, if you could, issue a binding "letter of intent" (that we already had printed up, awaiting nothing more than his signature...which was all that we needed to book it as quarterly revenue)?
He signs it. Staying true to my word, the whole process took all of 10 minutes and we were gone.
Finally, as we were shaking hands and headed out the front door, the purchasing guy says (not very cheerfully)..."happy holidays"! I returned the comment.
We were trying to close a "bigger" deal at the end of the quarter and the rep says he can't get the purchasing agent to move on it.
Sales people complain, and rightly so about there customers, but, sometimes purchasing agents or "buyers" are worse. I think buyers are seldom happy people, mainly because they almost never win, they either buy too much or too little, seldom do they guess right on.
My experience has been, the bigger the company and the more sure the buyer is of himself, the nicer he will be and the easier it will be to work with him.
Worst buyer....He told me he was too busy so send samples and call in 2 weeks. Call, and he's too busy, says call in 2 weeks. Happens 2 more times. Then when I call he says I am way too busy, why do you always leave messages on my answering machine, I don't have time to listen to them and I haven't looked at the samples you sent. Good buyers don't have time for this stuff. I said, (I didn't care at this point and it was my little company anyway) the best buyers take the time to look at every product and try to make an intelligent decision. So, he said I was just trying to be nice to you and I don't have time for your product.
6 months later I figured that buyer would have lost his job by now. So, I called and I got the owner of the business this time. He said he was filling in until they got a new buyer. Made an appointment with him, and got our product in....and he was a really nice guy.
driver....I concur. There's been many a time when I wanted to tell a purchasing person "if you're job isn't to see vendors, and facilitate purchases, then why are you here?".
While I miss many things about my former job, that isn't one of them. No matter how nicely I was treated by the company, there were some purchasing agents who felt they wielded the ultimate "big stick" over us......issuing a purchase order.
Then, like you, I'd go over their head, because the REAL buyer was waiting for our products, and couldn't get it, because purchasing was holding it up. Not all were like that. But, always ran into a couple of those types every quarter.
I used to tell the sales folks to let me be the "bad guy" and feign ignorance to get involved. I'm really good at that.....being ignorant!
"I do admire the amount of abuse you have to put up with."
Kirstie--
Don't you mean you admire their ability to put up with the abuse. Otherwise it sounds like you think the amount of abuse they receive is admirable. Then again. I guess we've had a few salesman on this board in the past that deserved above treatment--more than a few consumers, too!
I say, look at Honda. It is content with what it makes. And it makes some wonderful vehicles.
I wonder about that sometimes. Isn't it better in many cases just to have a good share of the market and make a profit.....why is it so necessary to be #1? I wonder if Honda is content not being #1. Maybe great companies won't be great if they are not striving to be #1. What about Suburu - they make good cars that people like, but really sell to a small niche market. Would they want to be #1? Sometimes being #1 is worse, have to keep expanding, have to stay ahead of the competition, you have to pay out big bucks to expand, and someone might come along and knock you off. One thing for sure, it is better to be more profitable, than to be #1 in sales....I think.
>why is it so necessary to be #1? There was a time when I had that drive. Then I realized that no matter how high you go, it is still crowded.
>I wonder if Honda is content not being #1 This is my position right now. I excel in what I do. I am happy that my customers like what I do for them. And I try to make it better, on my own time. I stopped drawing comparisons with competition long ago.
Today some folks rolled on to the lot and said they wanted to look at a used Explorer. They gave a good description of what they wanted as luck would have it we had exactly what they were looking for. They agreed to first pencil and have great credit. This was going way to easy. They got into the Business Office (The other F&I guy was handling not me but I can hear everything that goes on in his office) and they told him they had to hurry. So he told them the rate and the payment and sold them a VSC. The lady said again, we have to hurry. When my co-worker asked why they told him that XYZ Ford was closing at 4:30 for there Christmas Party.
What had happened was that they had been at one of our competitors and told them they wanted to think about it. Our competitor told them to drive there car for the afternoon while they thought about it. Well wanted to think about it was code for wanted to shop. At first pencil we were $2000 cheaper and still made good money.
So today there is one real happy sales guy and one real pissed off one.
Got a mailer from my Sam Swope Buick dealership today. They write the Buick Motor Car Division has authorized them to sell every new 2008 Buick Lucerene for $7,000 under invoice. That's a pretty good deal... about the most I've ever seen off on a non-SUV or truck vehicle. They also throw in lifetime oil and filter changes and a 100 gallon gas card. Very tempting... maybe they'll be offering $10k off invoice when GM gets closer to bankrupcy. :surprise:
Honda's case is a little different. Honda is actually a huge industrial company - e.g. largest engine manufacturer in the world. Their car division is just one part of the conglomerate. They just happen to be content with their car manufacturing position.
I think what is the problem is market's growth paradigm - companies that don't grow have to die, at least according to stock markets (and of course some empirical anectotal evidence). Just compare valuations on growth vs. stable income companies and you get the idea what is the biggest fear of every CEO. So in order not to be left by the investors (which of course creates self-feeding loop of corporate destruction), companies feel like they have to show growth, even if there isn't any. If they can't grow organically, they start acquiring, or switch metrics they measure their growth.
Big/Intermediate/Small Three saw their profits eroding first, so they clung to defending marketshare (which they coudn't anyway, but it was their primary strategy until six months ago). Even now, with two weeks left on the bankrupcy clock, people still seriously boast some of GM cars as "best selling". I remeber Joel not so long ago had (say eight months) "we outsell them thus we are the best" attitude. It had to fail of course. Now we have 60-80% overcapacity in production, large losses per unit, company going bust in two weeks and UAW saying "we will concede our wages in two years". :surprise: :sick:
Sometimes the hardest decision may just be to say "we are happy to be No.3".
more useless trivia. kurt and i grew up in the same small city, at least that is the local legend about where he is from. nobody ever died over fifty bucks.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Sometimes the hardest decision may just be to say "we are happy to be No.3".
Good point dino. I guess it is like you said, the stock holders and buyers won't buy your stock unless you show them growth figures, and the bigger the better. Then, when things go bad, or your competition comes out ahead, you have a longer way to fall. I am beginning to think the whole system is corupt.....it is based on a tremendous theory that worked for many decades, now we need watchdogs to watch over these guys. The Enrons, Wall St.,, AIG, Fanny May and Freddie Mac, now GM.....they keep growing and massaging the numbers until they implode. I guess to be as good as you can be you have to try to be #1, and to please the stockholders you have to be #1, but it would be better if more companies could be content with being #3.
>I think what is the problem is market's growth paradigm - companies that don't grow have to die, at least according to stock markets
I don't believe in this paradigm. If you are good at what you do and content with the revenue/customer base, who is anybody to tell that you have to die??
Of course, for each customer lost, you need efforts to capture a new one. That is all.
Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the dealer Not a car was stirring, not even a stealer. The vehicles were lined up by the door with care, In hopes that an up soon would be there.
The salesmen were nestled all snug in their sheds While visions of customers danced in their heads. And dealer in his plaid jacket and I in my cap, Had just settled down for a long winter's chat.
When out on the lot there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter. Away to the glass doors I flew like a flash, Peered outside and hoped for some cash.
The moon on the breast of the new- fallen snow Gave the luster of mid-day to the cars in a row. When, what to my wondering eyes should appear, But a good used car and a customer so dear.
With a little old driver, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be an easy pick. More rapid than eagles his courses he came, And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name!
"Now Joel! now, Isell, now, Moo and Houdini, On, Greenpea! On, Driver, on Mack and Boomy. To the top of the lot! to the top of the wall! Now sell away! Sell away! Sell away all!"
And then, in a twinkling, I saw the salesmen look. They were prancing and pawing each little foot. As I drew in my head, and was turning around, Into the showroom the up came with a bound.
He was dressed all in rags from his head to his feet, And his clothes were all tarnished with booze and something to eat. But a bundle of cash he had flung on his back, And he looked liked a baby seal, just opening his pack.
His eyes- how they twinkled! His mood how merry! He wanted to trade; he wanted a Chevy. His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, As he offered MSRP plus the "Mop and Glo".
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old up, And I laughed when i saw him, and put coffee in his cup. A wink of his eye and a twist of his head, Soon gave me to know the deal was not dead.
He spoke few words, but went straight to his work, And filled out all of the papers, then turned with a jerk. And giving the cash for the car that he chose, Up from his chair he suddenly rose!
He jumped in his new car and gave us a whistle, And away he sped like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he drove out of sight, "Happy Christmas to all salesmen, and to all customers a good-night!"
Of course, for each customer lost, you need efforts to capture a new one. That is all.
That's a good point chikoo, every year my own business lost about 10% of my customers, and I had to find new ones to replace those.....and it was fine and I was content.
But, I think, I have this theory that most competitive companies probably need a goal to shoot for or they will just wander around aimlessly and competitors will just drown them. On the other hand, companies like Honda don't have the number of models to catapult them into number one and they do seem to be content to be #4 or 5 - which is smart. Accords tend to be more expensive than say Impalas or even Camry's, but my impression is there is a little more engineering going on (not to take anything away from Camry - most people just want good reliable transportation), so Honda would rather spend more, and charge more, be content not selling as much, but be the best they can be in their niche market - and it works for them.
I guess my theory has become: most successful companies (and people and sports teams) have the goal of being #1 or they won't achieve success. But, a really clever plan is just to be the best you can be in your niche market, make as much profit as you can without watering down your product, and be content and proud to make a really good product.
And that leads me to believe that a smaller GM would probably be better off in Chapter 11, given a chance to reorganize, and just build the vehicles that people really want.
Comments
As far as business goes people got to remember that we are ALWAYS slow in December. We looked this morning and we are only 6 units off last December.
A good car man will laugh anything off.
I hope this is the case this year.
Man, I'd chomp at the bit to work on that marketing campaign.
Honda's putting out the same "feel good" marketing. "We're here. We're still making good, reliable cars that people want. That's a good message.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I've seen only one or two episodes, not too bad, but it represents a very agressive store.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
But I will say this. They sold the crap out of some cars. His infomercial and Blue Genie work.
Loved the talk to my manager.
Was out all day at teh hospital getting blood. There is not a more boring thing in the world.
fezo, my condolences to your family. GP, you hang in there!
Don't forget Toyota, they practically have enough money in the bank to buy both Ford and Honda.
I saw that Honda is dropping out of F1 racing, but Toyota is not. That seems very strange, considering Honda is supposedly the "sportier" car make?
Picked up some oil filters the other day at the Toyota parts dept., and asked the parts guy about sales. He said new car sales were a little slow, but they were doing great, considering the economy sucks! He said Corolla, Camry, and Yaris sales were UP for this dealer, compared to last year.
All this said, you really have to look at total US sales, and Nov. sales were down about 30% for all three - Toyota, Honda, and Ford. I am sure someone can get the exact numbers.
Our library system has DVDs of most older movies and new ones fairly quickly. We just pick them up them and watch them or whatever.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, depending on your plan, you will get some number of free rentals at the store. Just take your online DVD up to the register with a new rental from the store, and you checkout for free. I get 5 free rentals a month.
Now to keep this on topic.......as you are out driving in your new wheels or on a test drive, if you regularly pass or are near a BB store this is a better plan than Netflix. If you are out in the boonies and only do mail, then the plans would be equivalent.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just read a business article about the largest media company in Canada which is really suffering after buying too many TV and radio stations as well as a national newspaper which has become a money pit. One businessman was quoted as saying, "The trouble with building an empire is that they never last". Seems the #1 always gets knocked off eventually.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It got out of F1 all that it needed. For now, at least. I am sure they will return when improvements in engine technology are visible.
Which is why most Tribes in places like Afghanistan, Northern Pakistan or Iraq are not much interested in being part of a huge government. Their tribes seems to last longer than any government empire :sick:
They also went the way of GM in making trucks/SUVs so much of their product lineup, they're having difficulty moving them.
Quality has slipped, too.
Not that any of that can't be reversed. And, they do have cash. But, it's not all "peaches and cream" for them.
The thing is any time a company expands that rapidly they will make some mistakes, some stuff just falls betweeen the cracks. Also, they don't care as much because they are selling more than they ever did. Increasing sales is good, but trying to maintain the quality is often impossible. Overall, they have done amazingly well, considering their rapid growth, and it is just the normal course of events when a company grows rapidly, not ideal, but expected.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
He wants a new 09 A4 blk/tan with nothing but premium, blue tooth, and wood package. Now this is a hard car to find, so I pull up the closest thing I have. He asks me about deals, and I give him the national advertised specials. All very broad, and nothing specific. He won't drive the car, he just leaves me his # and asks me to find him one just how he wants it.
I locate one in state, and give him a couple of hours to do his shopping, and then leave him a message saying I found car, but the most important thing is that he come in, and let me do a proper demo so that he feels like this is the right car.
He say's I don't need to drive it, I just need the deal you said. 0 down $429.00 a month. I respond, sir I never said there was a car available for that price, I said there are some lease specials with tax credits, blah, blah blah.
At this point he starts going coo coo for co co puffs on the phone. Screaming about how he is "no one to "F" with, and he know's people, and I better get ready, because it's gonna come down on me".
I stay very calm and say sir, I don't appreciate being cussed at, maybe we should talk when you are a little more calm. How about I have my manager call you?
He goes in to the same rant, and then when my manager calls, he gives him the same screaming, cussing routine. He says he's recording everything, and we better get ready because it's gonna come down on us.
Ah, the holiday spirit is in the air.
I can't even figure out why he is infuriated with you...I guess b/c you couldn't immediately agree with the number he pulled out of the air??
Good grief.
Hell I have got it from people on this site before who will go off for no reason.
GP, hope all is well. Been catching up on all the posts. Don't get your head too far into a bottle.
Porsche store looks awesome with the holiday decorations and giant bows. We had a showroom full of classic 356's while I was gone. I wish I could have seen that in person.
Hope everyone is doing well. Sell some cars!
Geez, what's wrong with people? I do admire the amount of abuse you have to put up with. People not so into the holiday spirit, eh?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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You see, you car sales guys have all the fun. Actually, as bad as it seems, most jobs dealing with the public will have there fair share of these types to deal with. I have a friend that does heating and air conditioning. He tells me horror stories about what people do or say when he tells them their 15 year old furnace needs parts. They really hate paying for new furnace parts that they can't show off to friends.
The other day he had a lady customer that he said was a really looker...told her she needed a part that would cost $180, and she purrrrred, mmmmmm, I don't actually pay cash for most of my repairs..........
How would you like to answer that one.
Hey Moo....any news about the auto scene in China?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I still use one quote, cleaned up of course, when I believe an item to be overpriced. If anyone is familiar with the flick, or sees it, I'll bet you can identify which quote!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Your story reminded me of a customer we sold 2 weeks ago. And we started off on the wrong foot too.
I get a call from a customer that she and her husband (in their 40s) want to come down and get pre approved. She got my number from a friend of mine who she works with.
So they show up about 2 hours later, and told me they were at another dealer, and that dealer said they'll approve them (big difference between said and would), but they weren't happy there so they came to me.
Ok, fair enough, I get her info, and we run her credit, and she has no credit history, other than a fresh credit card. Plus she's got no driver license. The hubby tells me she'll finance, and he'll insure it and drive because he has a driver's license. But he doesn't want to get his credit checked (probably cause it sucks, but he wouldn't say).
I told him it'll be difficult because in most cases, banks will not finance a car and let you insure under someone else's name. I tell the hubby he'll need to be on the contract too.
He disagrees with me and says no way. After going back and forth I get my manager in to chat with them.
The hubby says that you can buy a car without a driver's license. We say, yeah, if you pay cash. You can buy it and do whatever you want with it. But if you want financing, the bank requires you to have a driver's license.
He says no, mgr says yes, he says no, mgr says yes (exactly word for word). He says he checked at the insurance agency. My mgr says they insurance agency is not the one issuing loans. He wants to talk to the banker. We tell him to go and call the banker himself. We pull out an approval page for another customer (we blocked out the name), that says APPROVED, with stipulations at the bottom that says "must have valid driver's license). The hubby doesn't want to hear it.
He tells us that the other place would finance them without a driver's license. My mgr asks "Then why didn't you buy it there?"
Customer studders and says "They didn't have what I liked over there". Highly unlikely cause the other dealer is bigger than ours and part of a giant group.
Then he goes off on a rant how we don't deserve any government and taxpayers help, and that we shouldn't lend banks' money, instead we should put up our own money for loans (didn't make sense), and he says thats us "dealers, don't deserve bailout money or any loans" in a raised voice.
My quick witted mgr responds:
" We're not asking for any loans, you're the one here asking for a loan"
The customer responds:
"I'm not asking for a loan"
Mgr:
"Then what are you doing here?"
Customer gets ticked off and walks out. Surprisingly, customer's wife is still sittng quietly.
She asks, why am I declined?
Mgr says,"I didn't even says the word declined. I was trying to explain to you how the approval process works. But your husband wouldn't listen. I think I sold a few more cars in my lifetime than he did, so next time you guys come to professionals for advice, you should hear as to what they have to say to you"
She leaves and 10 minutes later comes back with the husband. He's turns into the nicest guy you'd ever meet. :surprise:
To make a long story short, their own bank that they claimed would approve them, declined them instantly, and so did many other ones.
We finally did get them approved and he agreed to be on the contract. They're both happy , and he continues being courteous to us and my mgr who he was yelling at.
What a turn around!!!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Sounds like 2 psychos. And they were sent over by a friend? Boom, better tell your friend to only send normal people.
Also, not sure your manager handled it the best way possible, even though it did work out in the end.
My quick witted mgr responds:
" We're not asking for any loans, you're the one here asking for a loan"
(* I think he means Chrysler is asking for government loans)
The customer responds:
"I'm not asking for a loan"
Mgr:
"Then what are you doing here?"
By arguing back the supposed customer has no choice but to argue back even more. Maybe a simple.....I understand what you are saying sir, but the rules actually do state the person wanting a loan does have to have a drivers license, and I can show you an example....proceed as you did showing a sample - that was smart. The idea is not to accuse, not to escalate the disagreement, but to talk in a calm logical manner. My wife is a family therapist by trade and my tendency is to argue back, but it just doesn't work....just gets worse. I am learning!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Sometimes you gotta tell people like it is. The customer is not always righ.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The driving is crazy as usual. I actually got a video of a cab ride in Macau. We were driving through downtown and some of the surrounding hills during the night time. It was awesome. The video looks like something out of the Bourne Supremacy. One lane roads, elevated speeds, whipping by all manner of traffic and weaving around everyone. It was fun!
Oddly enough, there didn't seem to be as many people in the cities this time around. I'm sure that it was just my imagination, but it didn't seem as crowded as the last time I went.
All the cabs were VW's. I saw a ton of Hondas that were suped up as boy racers. I saw a Skyline and a bunch of Toyotas and Lexuses. AND, Buicks are still beloved over there. I saw tons of Honda Fits (Jazz) being driven around. Subcompacts are pretty popular there too. Not many SUV's in the city. I think space is a major issue.
If anyone wants an eye opener, take a walk through downtown Hong Kong at rush hour. The crush of people is overwhelming!
All in all, it was a fun trip. Lots of travelling, but I'm very glad to be back in my own bed.
I don't understand why anyone has to be uncivil when they're buying (or selling) something.
Not a car sales story, but when I was in charge of a sales staff in the tech industry, I was traveling with a rep and his manager. Come to think of it, it was right about this same time a couple of years ago. We were trying to close a "bigger" deal at the end of the quarter and the rep says he can't get the purchasing agent to move on it.
He sets up an appointment. We get to the company about 15 minutes before our appointment. Announce ourselves to the receptionist. She calls the purchasing guy to tell him we're in the lobby. She asks us to take a seat. We wait, and we wait.....20 minutes, 30 minutes.....45 minutes. Finally I get up to ask the receptionist to call the purchasing guy, again. She does. I can hear him on the other end of the phone ranting something, but couldn't make out what.
We sit back down. Wait another 15 minutes. Finally, I go to the receptionist and tell her we have to leave and we'll contact the purchasing guy another time.
Understand, it was at not small cost that I flew in, got a hotel room, rented a car, just to see this guy, when the appointment was made.
Anyway, receptionist, who was embarrassed by this point, calls the purchasing guy, again, telling him we're about to leave. She hangs up and says "he's on his way down".
Sure enough, a couple of minutes later, he he comes with a stern look on his face. He immediately lights up the sales rep....telling him how busy he is.
I finally introduce myself, shake his hand and intercede. I nicely tell the purchasing guy that I'm confused...maybe he can help with my confusion.
He says...."shoot"!
GG-"didn't the sales rep make an appointment?"
P-"I don't remember".
GG-"well, if he didn't, you have my apologies. But, we're here now. Can't we just have 10 minutes of your time and then we'll be off."
He agrees, reluctantly. We all head to his office and sit down. I immediately see his "day timer" laying open on his desk. I see that he did indeed have my reps name slotted in the designated time for the appointment. He spies me looking at the day timer.
Kind of sheepishly, he stumbles out with "I must have forgotten our appointment and got tied up away from my office".
GG-"not a problem. That'll happen from time-to-time."
Finally, I ask him what's holding up the contract. He stumbles a bit more, talking about how he's been swamped with work and hadn't got around to it.
GG-"totally understand. All I need is your signature. And, if you could, issue a binding "letter of intent" (that we already had printed up, awaiting nothing more than his signature...which was all that we needed to book it as quarterly revenue)?
He signs it. Staying true to my word, the whole process took all of 10 minutes and we were gone.
Finally, as we were shaking hands and headed out the front door, the purchasing guy says (not very cheerfully)..."happy holidays"! I returned the comment.
Sales people complain, and rightly so about there customers, but, sometimes purchasing agents or "buyers" are worse. I think buyers are seldom happy people, mainly because they almost never win, they either buy too much or too little, seldom do they guess right on.
My experience has been, the bigger the company and the more sure the buyer is of himself, the nicer he will be and the easier it will be to work with him.
Worst buyer....He told me he was too busy so send samples and call in 2 weeks. Call, and he's too busy, says call in 2 weeks. Happens 2 more times. Then when I call he says I am way too busy, why do you always leave messages on my answering machine, I don't have time to listen to them and I haven't looked at the samples you sent. Good buyers don't have time for this stuff. I said, (I didn't care at this point and it was my little company anyway) the best buyers take the time to look at every product and try to make an intelligent decision. So, he said I was just trying to be nice to you and I don't have time for your product.
6 months later I figured that buyer would have lost his job by now. So, I called and I got the owner of the business this time. He said he was filling in until they got a new buyer. Made an appointment with him, and got our product in....and he was a really nice guy.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
While I miss many things about my former job, that isn't one of them. No matter how nicely I was treated by the company, there were some purchasing agents who felt they wielded the ultimate "big stick" over us......issuing a purchase order.
Then, like you, I'd go over their head, because the REAL buyer was waiting for our products, and couldn't get it, because purchasing was holding it up. Not all were like that. But, always ran into a couple of those types every quarter.
I used to tell the sales folks to let me be the "bad guy" and feign ignorance to get involved. I'm really good at that.....being ignorant!
Kirstie--
Don't you mean you admire their ability to put up with the abuse. Otherwise it sounds like you think the amount of abuse they receive is admirable. Then again. I guess we've had a few salesman on this board in the past that deserved above treatment--more than a few consumers, too!
Gogiboy
Hopefully, Toyota learns from GM's mistakes of growing so big.
I say, look at Honda. It is content with what it makes. And it makes some wonderful vehicles.
I wonder about that sometimes. Isn't it better in many cases just to have a good share of the market and make a profit.....why is it so necessary to be #1? I wonder if Honda is content not being #1. Maybe great companies won't be great if they are not striving to be #1. What about Suburu - they make good cars that people like, but really sell to a small niche market. Would they want to be #1? Sometimes being #1 is worse, have to keep expanding, have to stay ahead of the competition, you have to pay out big bucks to expand, and someone might come along and knock you off. One thing for sure, it is better to be more profitable, than to be #1 in sales....I think.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There was a time when I had that drive. Then I realized that no matter how high you go, it is still crowded.
>I wonder if Honda is content not being #1
This is my position right now. I excel in what I do. I am happy that my customers like what I do for them. And I try to make it better, on my own time. I stopped drawing comparisons with competition long ago.
What had happened was that they had been at one of our competitors and told them they wanted to think about it. Our competitor told them to drive there car for the afternoon while they thought about it. Well wanted to think about it was code for wanted to shop. At first pencil we were $2000 cheaper and still made good money.
So today there is one real happy sales guy and one real pissed off one.
I think what is the problem is market's growth paradigm - companies that don't grow have to die, at least according to stock markets (and of course some empirical anectotal evidence). Just compare valuations on growth vs. stable income companies and you get the idea what is the biggest fear of every CEO. So in order not to be left by the investors (which of course creates self-feeding loop of corporate destruction), companies feel like they have to show growth, even if there isn't any. If they can't grow organically, they start acquiring, or switch metrics they measure their growth.
Big/Intermediate/Small Three saw their profits eroding first, so they clung to defending marketshare (which they coudn't anyway, but it was their primary strategy until six months ago). Even now, with two weeks left on the bankrupcy clock, people still seriously boast some of GM cars as "best selling". I remeber Joel not so long ago had (say eight months) "we outsell them thus we are the best" attitude. It had to fail of course. Now we have 60-80% overcapacity in production, large losses per unit, company going bust in two weeks and UAW saying "we will concede our wages in two years". :surprise: :sick:
Sometimes the hardest decision may just be to say "we are happy to be No.3".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
nobody ever died over fifty bucks.
Good point dino. I guess it is like you said, the stock holders and buyers won't buy your stock unless you show them growth figures, and the bigger the better. Then, when things go bad, or your competition comes out ahead, you have a longer way to fall. I am beginning to think the whole system is corupt.....it is based on a tremendous theory that worked for many decades, now we need watchdogs to watch over these guys. The Enrons, Wall St.,, AIG, Fanny May and Freddie Mac, now GM.....they keep growing and massaging the numbers until they implode. I guess to be as good as you can be you have to try to be #1, and to please the stockholders you have to be #1, but it would be better if more companies could be content with being #3.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't believe in this paradigm. If you are good at what you do and content with the revenue/customer base, who is anybody to tell that you have to die??
Of course, for each customer lost, you need efforts to capture a new one. That is all.
Not a car was stirring, not even a stealer.
The vehicles were lined up by the door with care,
In hopes that an up soon would be there.
The salesmen were nestled all snug in their sheds
While visions of customers danced in their heads.
And dealer in his plaid jacket and I in my cap,
Had just settled down for a long winter's chat.
When out on the lot there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my chair to see what was the matter.
Away to the glass doors I flew like a flash,
Peered outside and hoped for some cash.
The moon on the breast of the new- fallen snow
Gave the luster of mid-day to the cars in a row.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a good used car and a customer so dear.
With a little old driver, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be an easy pick.
More rapid than eagles his courses he came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name!
"Now Joel! now, Isell, now, Moo and Houdini,
On, Greenpea! On, Driver, on Mack and Boomy.
To the top of the lot! to the top of the wall!
Now sell away! Sell away! Sell away all!"
And then, in a twinkling, I saw the salesmen look.
They were prancing and pawing each little foot.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Into the showroom the up came with a bound.
He was dressed all in rags from his head to his feet,
And his clothes were all tarnished with booze and something to eat.
But a bundle of cash he had flung on his back,
And he looked liked a baby seal, just opening his pack.
His eyes- how they twinkled! His mood how merry!
He wanted to trade; he wanted a Chevy.
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
As he offered MSRP plus the "Mop and Glo".
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old up,
And I laughed when i saw him, and put coffee in his cup.
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know the deal was not dead.
He spoke few words, but went straight to his work,
And filled out all of the papers, then turned with a jerk.
And giving the cash for the car that he chose,
Up from his chair he suddenly rose!
He jumped in his new car and gave us a whistle,
And away he sped like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he drove out of sight,
"Happy Christmas to all salesmen, and to all customers a good-night!"
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF MY EDMUNDS FRIENDS!
Richard
Clement Moore would be proud!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Well done Richard!
I actually have a tear in my eye
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's a good point chikoo, every year my own business lost about 10% of my customers, and I had to find new ones to replace those.....and it was fine and I was content.
But, I think, I have this theory that most competitive companies probably need a goal to shoot for or they will just wander around aimlessly and competitors will just drown them. On the other hand, companies like Honda don't have the number of models to catapult them into number one and they do seem to be content to be #4 or 5 - which is smart. Accords tend to be more expensive than say Impalas or even Camry's, but my impression is there is a little more engineering going on (not to take anything away from Camry - most people just want good reliable transportation), so Honda would rather spend more, and charge more, be content not selling as much, but be the best they can be in their niche market - and it works for them.
I guess my theory has become: most successful companies (and people and sports teams) have the goal of being #1 or they won't achieve success. But, a really clever plan is just to be the best you can be in your niche market, make as much profit as you can without watering down your product, and be content and proud to make a really good product.
And that leads me to believe that a smaller GM would probably be better off in Chapter 11, given a chance to reorganize, and just build the vehicles that people really want.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250