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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

17137147167187192003

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  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Names changed to match folks here, printed, and on the way to a sales meeting to be read.

    That is awesome Richard
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    :)

    Good stuff, Richard! That was awesome.

    Have a great day everyone.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,237
    Had to do a lot of catch up reading this AM as we have been without power or heat since Thursday night due to what the media has dubbed "ICE '08".

    What a mess, trees down everywhere (they sound like guns going off as they break). Of course the power lines get taken down as the trees fall. I didn't fare too bad, a few pine limbs laying on the roof or in the yard, several trees pulled over and uprooted by the weight of the ice, nothing we can't handle.

    I had to use my new car during the storm to get around because my old Chrysler had gone into the shop the night before and the mechanic who was assigned to do the work was trapped at home and couldn't get to work. I was impressed with the Mitsu, the FWD was great and since it was low to the ground I was going under the low hanging tree limbs that were whacking all the other cars. I even had time to take it to an empty mall parking lot and do some donuts with it. :)

    On the down side I cried every time I heard the road salt clattering against the undercarriage. I had vowed that my baby would never taste salt so I'll have to get to the car wash as soon as things get back to normal. :cry:

    I was woken up this morning by all the media helicopters buzzing around taking pictures of the "devastation" before flying out of the area to their warm hotel rooms.

    It is pretty though. :shades: I doubt that many cars are being sold today in upstate NY and western MA. :(

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Very creative!

    An A+ for your efforts!
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,126
    RICHARD.....very creative.
    APPLAUSE!
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    . I was impressed with the Mitsu,

    Too bad about your bad weather OF. Saw it on the news and it looked pretty bad.
    About a year ago they upgraded my rental car to a Mitsi Outlander. I was really impressed. Next rental was a Chrysler 300. I would rather buy the Outlander in a flash....perfect size, nice steering, good gas mileage, very enjoyable driving, comfortable, good handling, everything was good. I am surprised they don't sell in bigger numbers. The Lancer has really smart styling and seems to have pretty reasonable pricing. If I was looking for a car in that price range I would certainly consider one.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    Very nice richard, thanks.

    The dukester fancies himself as a famous english poet... wonder if he's up to the challenge? :shades:
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    That was very nice of you Richard, thanks! :D

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Nicely done 'teach'.

    Gramar ain't too bad, I'm still checking the spellin. :P

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Member Posts: 2,039
    Chirp...........

    Chirp.........
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    An instant Christmas Classic. This will be in every showroom across the country ! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,126
    Saw the same ad referenced a couple of weeks ago for brand new '09 Impalas and Malibus in the local paper. Not a "one at this price" caveat.

    Impala...MSRP = $23,795
    Sale price = $15,860

    Malibu MSRP = $22,275
    Sale price = $15,860

    According to the ad, not demos but brand new.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,766
    i guess that proves you are the real deal.
    with all the stuff that gets posted, that's a jewel which makes it worth forgetting all the bad stuff.
    merry xmas to you too! :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,766
    Go to smart shopper on carpace and you will meet richard64.
    You will pay attention to grammar and spelling like never before.
    It’s like being back in school without the test.
    You will be corrected, but it’s for the best.
    The whole world can read all your posts.
    Makes it easier to figure out what’s OT
    for Kristie and Tides who are the hosts.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >I guess my theory has become: most successful companies (and people and sports teams) have the goal of being #1 or they won't achieve success. But, a really clever plan is just to be the best you can be in your niche market, make as much profit as you can without watering down your product, and be content and proud to make a really good produc

    Don't shoot to be #1. Just shoot to make the best product at the best price, giving the best value to the consumer. The consumers will make you #1 themselves, in their own good time. Which is better, imo, than grabbing the crown on your own.
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    GP, hope all is well. Been catching up on all the posts. Don't get your head too far into a bottle.


    Thanks Moo.... For a update..... All I can say is everything happens for a reason!

    Staying out of the bottle.... don't need to make things worse and that is just what that will do :surprise: Nothing for nothing I am the happiest I have been in years and don't feel the need to drink. In fact I only had a few drinks on thanksgiving with family. But for the most part just getting my act together and I will be fine. It is amazing to me how many prospects are available out there ;) I am just enjoying life and taking one day and one customer at a time.

    GP
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the dealer
    Not a car was stirring, not even a stealer.


    Very Nice Richard!!!!! I enjoyed it :D

    GP
  • sterlingdogsterlingdog Member Posts: 6,984
    Guys, thanks for all of the nice comments about my "recycled' Christmas poem. I enjoyed doing it for a bunch of nice people.

    After church today, we drove by the Ford dealer's locations here---a used car lot about a mile from the new car lot. On his used car lot, he had a sign which read: "All vehicles on this lot priced at $12,888". On his new car lot, he had a sign which read: "All vehicles on this lot below invoice". I never thought that I would live to see such signs at a dealership. Though I know that it is a great time for customers to buy cars, it is really sad to see a dealer have to advertise like this.

    The Kia dealer was in worse shape. He is advertising Kia's at $7,500 BELOW invoice and a week's vacation to the islands. What possible profit margin can he hope to get from this?

    I figure by February they will even sell to a tight [non-permissible content removed] like me. Even my wife is now convinced that we should consider a trade. That is REALLY a new twist!

    Richard
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The Kia dealer was in worse shape. He is advertising Kia's at $7,500 BELOW invoice

    That would mean they will sell Kias starting at around $3,500. Whats the catch?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    That would mean they will sell Kias starting at around $3,500. Whats the catch?

    Obviously a $32000 Amanti! :surprise:

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Classic! Very well done. :shades:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Ya got me on that one, gogiboy. I hope the week leading up to the holidays will bring LESS abuse for our salesfriends here. Lotsa angst out on the streets, presumably because of the economy, so I hope they're treated well.

    And kudos to Richard - well done, and thanks for the holiday cheer!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,237
    "...That would mean they will sell Kias starting at around $3500. What's the catch?..."

    Read the fine print. The island vacation is probably on Devil's Island and the dealer gets to keep your car as a service loner until you swim back. ;)

    BTW snake, have you made a bid on that Obama Senate seat yet? I figure since you know the local market you could get a good deal on it. :)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Please me send me your email address to my carspace page. I need to ask you for some advice.

    GP
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,237
    As I strolled through the car ads today I saw some interesting things.

    On Craigslist I saw two ads for Toyota Prius ( or is the plural Priui?). The first was a local new car dealer who was offering a new 2009 for $1500 below MSRP. The second was from a private seller who was asking $18K+ for a 2007 with 104K miles.

    Any opinions on which one was mis-reading the market?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Any opinions on which one was mis-reading the market?

    Duh..."if you don't ask you don't get"??? :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    BTW snake, have you made a bid on that Obama Senate seat yet?

    Tell me would you buy a used Senate seat from this guy?

    image

    I work for the state and have had several friends ask me how much I paid for my job. :sick:

    Well Blago did put the goober in gubernatorial.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    Senor Snakeweasel wrote :
    " Tell me would you buy a used Senate seat from this guy? '

    The great state of Louisiana is ticked off. After having worked hard for many years to achieve the status of most corrupt, there go the Illini trying to steal the thunder. Huey Long, Edwards and company ask for a rematch. Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez .
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    The jipster, G,J the spelling seems rather immaterial. Sound and fury. Someone is wrong on the internet. I am totally aghast.
    "The dukester fancies himself as a famous english poet... wonder if he's up to the challenge? " Cien Años de Soledad but it was the best of times. Thy bait offends my olfactory. Think, a cognitive proccess , shall we substitute multi national? Lest the Limey's get a big head. Sir Richard, Yes, Virginia, a most noble post. There is and shall be. We shall survive, apologies to Ms. Gaynor . Here's to '10 and a return to normalcy. Best Christmas wishes to all and to all a good night.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    The great state of Louisiana is ticked off.

    Sorry to tell you this but Louisiana never had anything on Chicago for corruption. We have been seriously corrupt since before Capone bought the mayor and police.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,681
    >Chicago for corruption. We have been seriously corrupt since

    No. Tell me it isn't true!

    Does this mean that the cable news reports about Blagojevich's wife being Rezko's real estate person and involved in lots of sales of properties for "Friends of Blago" also being involved in the Obama's having bought the property at $300000 off and then Rezko's having sold part of his property to them making the other part unbuildable might be true!!!

    How do I get that kind of job with kickbacks?

    What about Jackson Jr and Jackson's involvement? Might this favor of senate seat be why Big Jesse shut up about Obama after the inital "open mike" incident, thinking that Jesse Jr. might be able to buy the seat?

    To keep on topic: how are auto sales in Chicago?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I have a buddy that lives there looking to buy a used Sienna. Looking for a good place to refer him.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    this article could be of interest for our auto sales frontlines fans;
    (From B-Net)

    AutoNation and CarMax, two of the largest U.S. auto retailers, could learn from America’s Car-Mart, which focuses on the “buy here/pay here” segment of the used car market. Contrary to what franchised auto dealerships are forecasting, the Bentonville, Arkansas-based chain continues to record higher sales and operating profits. For the second-quarter of fiscal 2009 (I think they mean 2008) ended October 31, Car-Mart reported year-on-year growth in net income of 11 percent to $3.9 million, on a six-percent rise in sales to $72 million.All the more remarkable, considering Car-Mart’s 91 automotive dealerships primarily sell older model, used vehicles and provides financing for substantially all of its customers — most of whom are higher risk, non-prime borrowers, as detailed in the 2008 regulatory 10-K filing:

    The Company’s installment sales contracts typically include down payments ranging from 0% to 17% (average of 7%), terms ranging from 12 months to 36 months (average of 27.3 months), and annual interest charges ranging from 6% to 19% (average of 12.8% at April 30, 2008). The Company requires that payments be made on a weekly, bi-weekly, semi-monthly or monthly basis to coincide with the day the customer is paid by his or her employer.
    Whereas competitors, such as AutoNation and CarMax, currently face difficulty in moving trucks and sport utility vehicles off their lots, due to changing consumer buying patterns and/or restricted access in obtaining auto financing, Car-Mart is finding success in selling basic and affordable transportation. Against a backdrop of rising unemployment, Car-Mart’s decision to not focus on luxury or sports cars is paying dividends. The average car sold in 2008 cost $8,690, and was between three and ten years of age with 80,000 to 130,000 miles on the odometer.

    Lending money to sub-prime borrowers is not without challenges. For the three months ended October 31, provision for credit losses was 22 percent of net sales! Car-Mart, however, operates a decentralized business strategy, with each dealership responsible for making customer credit decisions and collecting on the loans it originates. And, substantially all associate incentive compensation is tied directly — or indirectly — to collection results. Historically, credit losses, on a percentage basis, tend to be higher at new and developing stores (under six years of age), for those dealerships tend to have more inexperienced managers (in making credit decisions and collecting on customer loans) and less repeat (reliable) customers.

    On average, accounts more than 56 days past due are considered delinquent. For the October-end quarter, net charge-offs as a percentage of average finance receivables was 6.2 percent, down 50 basis points from the prior year. By comparison, one of the largest U.S. used-vehicle retailers, CarMax, reported a delinquency rate (of 31 days past due) in October of only 3.76 percent — yet auto analysts project same-store used vehicle sales in coming months to continue to fall.

    Going forward, although Car-Mart’s delinquency trends are likely to go higher — given rising unemployment — consumer demand (and sales) for its Honda Accords, Ford Escorts, etc., should more than offset anticipated losses from credit-impaired borrowers.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Thanks for the article. I think it's a pretty decent business plan where big money is not tied up in expensive inventory. A dealer can spend $20k and buy a premium used luxury car or SUV, or 5 affordable used cars that can be resold quickly and they can make some money on.

    You might even attract some cash buyers looking for decent sub $10k rides.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,591
    For the second-quarter of fiscal 2009 (I think they mean 2008) ended October 31

    They meant 2009... If the 2nd quarter ends on October 31st, then the fiscal year ends on April 30th, 2009... Fiscal year 2009.

    Bentonville, Arkansas? Think they might be affiliated with Wal-Mart?

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  • jipsterjipster Member Posts: 6,299
    They meant 2009... If the 2nd quarter ends on October 31st, then the fiscal year ends on April 30th, 2009... Fiscal year 2009.

    Clarification please. The last week in December is busy for car sales because dealerships don't want to pay taxes on cars sitting on their lots at the end of the year.... or, they don't want to have to sell a new 2008 car in 2009???
    2021 Honda Passport EX-L, 2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    I had a customer come in saturday. Super nice guy with a beautiful wife , and two beautiful daughters.

    He was educated overseas so he's a huge Audi guy. He bought a 300C SRT8 18 months ago, and hates it, and want's to get back in an Audi.

    Now guess what 06 SRT8's with 9k mileage are running through the lane in the DFW area?

    BTW, his pay off was 39k.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    That's all the money in Dallas right now.

    Thankfully he was a cool guy. A real unbalanced person would have cussed us out for hours.

    No, not even an Audi will carry 24k in neg.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,591
    The fiscal year is just an alternative calendar for accounting purposes. Many companies use it, so that their year-end business falls at a relatively slow time for their particular business. That way, they don't take away focus from their business at a busy time, to deal with year-end accounting processes.

    It rarely has much to do with year-end tax selling. Those deadlines for inventory taxes are set by the taxing entity, not the business.

    regards,
    kfydx

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  • greanpea68greanpea68 Member Posts: 1,996
    Now guess what 06 SRT8's with 9k mileage are running through the lane in the DFW area?

    BTW, his pay off was 39k.


    OMG i feel bad for that guy :sick:

    GP
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    If the guy who bought that 300SRT8 watched this 3 minute video he wouldn't have bought it. Anyone else who thinks B3 engineering is on a par with European should watch too.....
    Chrysler 300C SRT8 vs BMW M5

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    That is a pretty bad investment all right...but about average for most stock portfolios for that period !

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Ouch, maybe he had negative equity he carried into this loan to begin with.

    We're asking $39k CDN for our 08 300C SRT8 demo with about 6k (4k miles).

    As for the M5 comparo, yeah of course the M5 will kick butt, but you're paying twice the money for it to begin with, and it's one of the best sedans in the world.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    As for the M5 comparo, yeah of course the M5 will kick butt, but you're paying twice the money for it to begin with, and it's one of the best sedans in the world.

    Absolutely true....it is double the price and should be a much better car BUT, there's something more important to consider. I don't think BMW would sell a car similar to the 300 at half the price, if it wasn't built to certain standards. That's really the point of the video, the M3 shows pride of workmanship, it is engineered, and cost is not the over riding factor. Quality and making something you can be proud of and getting it right is what is important....not making a car that would be embarrassing to the nameplate.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I don't think that the 300C is an embarassment to the nameplate. Maybe that Top Gear dude is not used to charactyerisitcs of American cars, I mean most European luxury sedans will have better quality build. However the 300C is one of the better RWD sedans to come out of detroit in years, if not decades.

    If Chrysler wanted to build a sports car that's among the best of quickest in the world, they would and they did hey did. The Viper ACR currently holds the record at Nurburgring for fastest factory car. The Motor Trend article is here

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,594
    300C is one of the better RWD sedans to come out of detroit in years,

    How many other RWDs are there coming out of Detroit? Not many, and only because they wanted to duplicate RWD Euro-engineering. I have rented an AWD C300 and if that is Detroits best..............

    That Viper is fast. I wouldn't buy one if I could. I would buy an M3 if I could.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • verdugoverdugo Member Posts: 2,288
    Sorry. I live in Sacramento, but don't know any Toyota/used car places.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    snakeweasel wrote :
    " Sorry to tell you this but Louisiana never had anything on Chicago for corruption. We have been seriously corrupt since before Capone bought the mayor and police. "
    Now don't get your feathers ruffled. I grant that you currently have the upper hand on exposed corruption. But as retired Congressman Tauzin once wrote of Louisiana, half the state is under water and the other half is under indictment, I miss our politicians of yore. I counter your Capone with 1800's pirates and Jean Lafitte.
    A Troubling Bayou Tradition
    Louisiana's history of corruption bodes ill for the relief money headed its way
    By Bret Schulte
    Posted 10/2/05
    Retired Congressman Billy Tauzin once issued this description of his home state: "Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment." He was kidding, but right now no one is laughing. Louisiana's swollen waters are delivering fresh worries about the state's famously colorful political system.
    Louisiana stands to gain billions in federal dollars for reconstruction and relief after the twin hits by Katrina and Rita. But with the cash comes attendant worries about bloated contracts, kickbacks, and fraud. And for good reason. Perhaps no state has a greater track record of political hucksters and hijinks.

    That history goes back to the early 1800s, when pirate Jean Lafitte attacked Spanish and French ships from his mini-kingdom deep in the bayou. To curry local favor, he distributed pilfered goods to the poor. Lafitte may have been among the most honorable of Louisiana's lovable rogues.

    The most notorious was the "Kingfish," populist Democratic Gov. Huey Long, who lorded over the state from 1927 until his death in 1935. Long delivered on his campaign promises of free textbooks for children, paved roads, and new schools--almost all of it financed by taxes on the rich and on oil companies. But Long also created a secret police force and consolidated state employees under his control, typically taking a portion of their earnings as "contributions" to his war chest. At an LSU faculty dinner, Long bragged, "I steal money. But a lot of what I stole has spilled over in no-toll bridges, hospitals, and to build this university." After being elected to the U.S. Senate and ensuring the election of a stooge to succeed him in the governor's office, Long prepared for a presidential run against an incumbent, fellow Democrat Franklin Roosevelt, who called Long one of the most dangerous men in America. On Sept. 8, 1935, Carl Weiss, the son-in-law of a political opponent, shot Long to death in the state capitol.

    " Elect the Crook. " But corruption did not die with him. In 1939, the "Louisiana Scandals" erupted when James Monroe Smith, appointed by Long as president of LSU, was charged with embezzling a half-million dollars. In the ensuing investigation, at least 20 state officials were indicted, and two committed suicide as the scandal enveloped Gov. Richard Leche, who received a 10-year federal prison sentence in a kickback scheme.

    The legacy of free-spirited scoundrels was inherited by Gov. Edwin Edwards, a populist charmer who served four terms over the period of 1972 to 1996. The dapper womanizer beat two dozen corruption investigations and once said the only way he could lose a race was by being "found in bed with a dead girl or a live boy." Edwards produced campaign bumper stickers proclaiming, "Elect the Crook." Voters did. In 2000, the good times stopped rolling; Edwards received a 10-year federal prison sentence for extorting money from casino boat owners seeking licenses.

    Under subsequent Govs. Mike Foster and Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, Louisiana has tried to clean up its act. But since 2004, two state judges have been convicted of accepting bribes. Federal officials are also investigating the administration of former New Orleans Mayor Marc Morial, whose associates are accused of skimming hundreds of thousands of dollars from city contracts. And, in August, the feds raided the homes of U.S. Rep. William Jefferson because of suspected illegal activity with African business interests.

    Nevertheless, attitudes may be changing. "Louisiana politicians have thrived on bad-boy images and populist appeal," says Pearson Cross, an assistant professor of political science at the University of Louisiana Lafayette. "But [voters] are realizing while corruption may be colorful, it's not helping Louisiana." And right now, Louisiana can use all the help it can get.
    link title
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    Retired Congressman Billy Tauzin once issued this description of his home state: "Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment."

    Don't want to get into which is more corrupt since this way off topic, but as someone once said our politicians come preindicted. Lets put it this way, half of our governors are convicted felons (or it looks like it will be). Nuff said. Our corruption runs deep and is only now being exposed.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,352
    That's all the money in Dallas right now.

    When I was car hunting in 2007 I looked at a Charger SRT-8. It was very fast and kind of fun, but outward visibility was terrible, the interior fit and finish was merely average, and-worst of all-it was too big and too heavy. And you could only get it with a slushbox. I don't regret passing it up. That said, in the end I made an equally moronic buying decision- passing up a really nice CPO 330i ZHP and E46 M3 and buying a new Mazdaspeed 3 instead... :sick: :sick: :sick:

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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