A cuple of months back, I almost bought a used Passat wagon at the local VW dealer. But, it got sold on a Monday just before I got back to deal on it. Oh well, snooze you lose.
But, that unit was still in the weekly (sunday) ad at least 3 weeks past that, so almost a month real time. And this is in the local paper, so they must have to submit a new ad every week.
I can see maybe the next weekend, but anything after that screams of fraud (or at least sleaziness). At best it is pure laziness.
"...I don't understand why somebody would even go as far as a credit app only to never respond to our emails or phone calls..."
I'm just guessing but these people may be dealing with a salesman at another store and they're trying to "keep him honest" by soliciting other offers from dealers they have no intention of buying from. I've even done this myself when buying supplies for the farm. My regular go-to guy gives me a price and especially if there's been a bump in the cost I'll ask for a price from a competitor. It's for my peace of mind and I'll always let the other guy know if I'll be sticking with my regular guy. Occasionally, the new person has superior service or price and I'll switch suppliers. To not keep tab on your costs is a sure way to go broke.
I guess what I'm saying is perhaps not every squirly request comes from some kid in his parent's basement.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
When you set an appointment time with someone, they're more likely to come rather than just saying "drop by whenever" because the customer knows you're putting time aside for them.
It's not foolproof, but it works better than having no set time.
And typically when someone does call it means they have done their research, they sorta know what they want.
Plus the 2 main reasons for a call is the customer is trying to find out inventory, and shopping for a saleperson over the phone.
If the dealer that sandman called had his inventory, and the salesperson would have been friendly, then as he said, chances are he would have put a dip on a unit.
People phone in because it's easier and quicker to "get a feel" if a salesperson is good or not (friendly, helpful etc) by a quick 2 minute call, rather than a driving to and spending time at a dealership.
I've gotten many deals from folks who called and I was the only dealer in the area who was friendly, and knew my specials etc...
To get to my dealership they passed 5 crappy ones who failed to learn current specials, or have basic telephone skills.
But, that unit was still in the weekly (sunday) ad at least 3 weeks past that, so almost a month real time. And this is in the local paper, so they must have to submit a new ad every week.
Only 3 weeks? I saw an ad for a Toyota Sienna CE (base) run for almost 2- 3 months after it was "sold". I was in the market for a CE, the Toyota dealership didn't have any on the lot... supposedly because no one wanted the base model. Ad comes out for the CE, I call first thing in the morning. Salesman doesn't know about it, then comes back and says it was already sold. I see the same ad for the next few months or so. This was back in 04' when the Sienna was a hot minivan. I would guess the dealership sold quite a few of the LE's and XLE's from people calling in about the CE. As it is so often said,"They wouldn't do it if it didn't work."
Due to misleading screamer ads, internet inventories not kept up to date, and inaccurate information given over the phone, it's always better to flatfoot a dealership before making any calls or internet inquiries. This is covered in the "Jipst Method" of car buying. Do a google search for more information. :surprise:
As one of your team members, I follow the "Jipst Method". My minimum time at the dealership is three hours and average is five. Yesterday, I tried the "Jmonroe Method" of internet inquiry. I finally received an automated response two hours later and a real response this afternoon---a 24 hour wait time. It doesn't bother me, but I'm using the flatfoot approach tomorrow. I think that I had rather meet a salesman face to face. I've completed my three months of research and my one year training at Edmunds. I am now ready to do battle for the LS/GM. Besides, rebates end Monday and I don't have time to go back and forth via internet. Let me at those boys! :P
I simply must ask: what do you see in the GM? I note that the car lacks at least 2 critically important safety features: side curtain airbags & stability control. The absence of either one of these would be enough to kill my interest. It's clear that Ford decided long ago not to invest in this car. Given your apparent interest in a large Mercury sedan, wouldn't you be better off with the Sable?
good luck, Richard! Make us proud, and stimulate the economy!
PS - the $14,990 Camry I asked about last week turned out to be a hoax - big surprise. It's too bad - my uncle would have bought two at that price just because the deal was good. He would have actually paid the dealer $16,500 (they quoted $16,199) for the same car (which, of course, they didn't have, but that didn't stop them from quoting him a price and telling him to come in!) It's too bad some places still want to do business this way - it gives our good sales friends here a bad name to the general public.
I note that the car lacks at least 2 critically important safety features: side curtain airbags & stability control. The absence of either one of these would be enough to kill my interest. It's clear that Ford decided long ago not to invest in this car
That is a very good point. On the one hand, it is a lot of car for the money and it is like going back to a 1960 or 70 car experience. However, those safety features are absolutely necessary today and stability control is becoming so important it will become mandatory. Richard, I hope you consider jimbres comments.
5 star crash test rating all around. I would guess if it is safe enough for I would guess 70% of all the policemen in the country its safe enough for Richard.
Instead of stability control it has traction control which along with the 4 wheel ABS the car handles just fine.
Just wanted to share... I can't remember last time I purchased a car from a domestic dealer, and should have known better.
I happened to come across a used low mile 2005 X5 V8 with all the toys at a GMC store. Stopped over to find it sitting on the back lot, filthy from being traded in the day before (the works, kids' toys still in the back seat, covered in Cheerios, etc.). Figured it was actually a good thing, I got to see how the previous owner treated it.
I was immediately approached by a salesman who seemed eager to deal with me not to attend their sales meeting. Test drove the car, all was well except it seemed like it would need tires soon. Mentioned that to the sales guy, they threw a number at me on my trade in (that actually seemed decent), I told them I'd get back to them -- after the 'meet my sales manager and would you buy the car today' bit.
I called back in the morning, told him I'm interested in the car, and would be securing my own financing. He (the sales guy) kept asking for a credit app, I had the loan preapproved same day, and agreed on a OTD price (+tax) over the phone. He kept on pushing me to take the car home that night, basically trying to spot me right then and there. He was getting the car detailed that day (Tuesday before Thanksgiving) for me to take delivery the following day,
So... I call Wednesday morning, my sales guy is out sick, and the sales manager is not in. I'm patched through to another highly trained sales professional who always answered his phone in Spanish... After making the 30 mile drive to the dealership, now they don't have a working fax machine for my credit union to fax the loan paperwork. Two hours later... Finally we can start signing away, All of a sudden we now have a $599 doc fee. And they yet again are insisting on me filling out their own credit app. I refused on both counts... We then had to argue over sales tax figure -- I'm licensing the car out of state and was not going to pay tax at the time of purchase. Five hours later -- day before Thanksgiving, trying to leave town -- I'm finally out of there.
The fun is now just beginning... The same night, at 11:30pm my original (out sick that day) salesman drunk dials me from his cellphone. Twice. Their wonderful detail guy had thrown the floormats on top of the still wet shampooed carpets that pretty much got moldy due to the car sitting on their lot for two days afterward with the windows closed.
The following Monday I get a call from my credit union wondering if I decided to withdraw my application, as they are yet to hear anything back from the dealership and the loan is not funded. To make a long story short, it took them over 30 days to send the payoff for my trade in after repeated lies about when it was sent, being unable to find tracking numbers, etc. I left fourteen (14) messages for the finance manager that went unreturned (I actually kept track of this) -- the one and only time I was able to get this sh1thead on the phone was after sittingon hold for 15 minutes for the GM or owner of the place...
Anyhow, I AM happy with the car and ultimately the deal I was able to get. However, this was by far the most debilitating car buying experience I've had thus far (having purchased 15+ vehicles in the past). It's absolutely astonishing to me (also in sales) that this is the way they conduct business.
Thanks Joel....5 star rating all around....it gets the Driver stamp of approval, go for it Richard. Airbags, abs, traction control are necessities today.
richard....go get'em. You are prepared "Grasshopper".
Regarding those Gr Marquis, even the '96 I sold for my Mother handled fine....12 year old car, based on an old (but updated) platform.
In my brief time driving the GM, I began to appreciate what it is those cars can do. You're not going to win any autox events with them. You aren't going to win any stop light wars with them either (unless you're up against a hybrid).
What they do, they do well. That is, driving in comfort, with easy power, and just enough handling to keep you out of trouble. They drive "EASY", if that makes any sense. That '96 would crack 22 MPG, so the new ones should be able to do better than that. RWD handling (which is a good thing), anti-lock (another good thing). Ford's been making them long enough that build quality is very good. As good as my Tahoe is in the open road, the Merc was just as capable.
I would have kept the '96, if I had a couple fewer cars in the GG stable.
I happened to come across a used low mile 2005 X5 V8 with all the toys at a GMC store.
Thanks for sharing your story bis...it was fascinating. You made a gutsy move by buying the car before it was detailed....although as you say, it might be better to see it that way. Also, you probably got a better price on it since it didn't sit around too long. Would this have happened at a non B3 store?......I seem to doubt it. Sounds like a dealer that is really struggling to stick around.
Traction control, while certainly useful, is not the same thing. Stability control detects & helps prevent loss of control due to skidding, while traction control combats drive wheel slippage.
Most stability control systems also include traction control. I believe that this is true of Ford's AdvanceTrac system.
Some experts have called stability control the most significant automotive safety development since the seat belt. Federal regs will mandate it in all new cars sold in the U.S. beginning in 2012. I wouldn't consider a car that lacked it.
No doubt stability control is worthwhile. However, it's still not going to save from stupidity.
Maybe it's because I've driven some cars with nothing more than a steering wheel, gas pedal and a brake pedal to control the car (on less than sterling tires), but there are few cars that I couldn't control in the wet stuff. I'll make special exemptions for some sports cars with sport treads on them.
Even the 12 year old Merc GM was relatively easy to control in what's amounted to about the only real snow we've had in SW OH (so far).
Maybe it's because I've had experience driving these beasts. But, I certainly wouldn't fret driving a Gr Marquis at all (particularly a new one) in inclement weather, regardless of stability control.
You have suffered no damages. No one was rude to you. No one stole from you. With all that being said, you're obviously in no danger of buying a vehicle.
"This person is no danger of buying a vehicle today"
One of my favorite things to say to management after I qualify someone in 3 minutes
Hope everyone had a great new year..... Myself I stayed off the sauce and performed the duties of Designated test driver....
I've completed my three months of research and my one year training at Edmunds. I am now ready to do battle for the LS/GM. Besides, rebates end Monday and I don't have time to go back and forth via internet. Let me at those boys!
You are ready to fly the nest richard, I've taught you everything I know, which some (isell) will tell you is substantial. :P
Remember, use the "Jipst Method" and you will soar like an eagle... then swoop down to club them like a baby seal. I know you will make "Team Jipster" proud, all 2 or 3 of us... what with the economy, membership dues and all. Good luck.
A local mega dealer has had another setback and is about to lose its Chevy/Buick franchise. Dealmaker auto group aka Seaway Chev./Buick in northern NY is in default with GMAC. http://www.newzjunky.com/court/1224dealmaker.htm
A few months ago they closed their Ford store in suburban Syracuse NY. Funny that all the used cars are gone but the lot is loaded with new Ford cars and trucks as well as a KR and Cobra stangs buried in the snow out front. This is the 6th Ford dealer to either go broke or take a buyout from Ford in the Syracuse area. http://www.syracuse.com/business/index.ssf?/base/business-14/122605180193340.xml- &coll=1
A local longtime (1948) single prop. family Linc/Merc. dealer in another upscale Syr. burb. of Manlius took a FoMoCo buy out and sold their prime location for a strip mall/drug store instead of building a new building/service dept. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-187744842.html
So my financially strapped brother is in need of a replacement vehicle. He will be 40 years old next month and has never had a car loan. I was pretty sure his credit was completely in the crapper, so we brought our mother along with us as a co-signer (as much as I try to help my brother, I will not co-sign anything for him).
I had done some research and dug up a few candidates near home that I believed we could finance for 2-3 years within his target of $150/mo with about $1k down and some that we could arrange a cash deal on. First stop was to see a Chevy minivan at a megachain dealer. Well, to make a long story shorter, it became apparent that not everyone has heard of the credit crunch. We showed up to try on a $3500 minivan (they "just sold") and wound up entertaining a numbers pitch on a $10k PT Cruiser. Geee... 75 month loan on a 3-year-old car? Where do I sign?!
After wasting about 3 hours at that place, I took him to a couple of private lots to browse the goods before ultimately ending up at the type of store I saved till last ... the dreaded Buy Here Pay Here lot. I gotta be honest, this particular owner has completely changed my view of the BHPH business. He was very up front about everything. Basically took my brother by the hand and led him through his first [dealer] car buying experience. He even sat down at the computer with my brother, pulled up his credit score and report, and went through it with him! I was really amazed. Even more amazing was the fact that his score came back MUCH higher than any of us anticipated. He was actually kind of sort of financible .... welll.... he WOULD have been financible a year ago, anyway. Not so much these days.
But the man tried anyway. He explained that there is no way my brother should be looking to finance very long. He said 2 years is really where you want to be. Now, of course, this wasn't news to me ... hence the $3500 minivan at the top of my list ... but it was so nice to hear it coming from the mouth of a salesman! Anyhoo... we wound up driving and choosing a '99 Subaru Legacy Wagon. Very clean and well kept for the year. BUT ... unfortunately, my brother is in dire need of wheels pronto and the seller is not able to arrange financing so quickly. My father has now intervened with a checkbook. *sigh* So much for my 40-year-old brother finally financing his first car and getting on the road back to credit recovery. But I guess at least he's back on the asphalt road. In the end, I believe the Subaru was the type of vehicle the seller doesn't typically deal with. Just about everything else there was an overpriced, high-mile, late-model vehicle. Pretty much what you expect at BHPH. And I believe he let it go for a relatively small profit. I just hope it holds up to my brother's abuse until he can pay back my parents.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Traction control, while certainly useful, is not the same thing. Stability control detects & helps prevent loss of control due to skidding, while traction control combats drive wheel slippage.
Thank you for reminding me of the difference. I remember the salesman taking us on a test drive in a BMW in 1999. He got it up to 70 mph and then put 2 wheels onto the gravel - headed for a telephone pole. By the way, he was steering with 2 fingers. There was no sliding, no swerving, no crashing into the pole......he just turned the wheel and got it back on the road like nothing happened. So I agree that stability control is an absolute necessity. Car makers should respect their customers enough that it should be on every model produced.
No doubt stability control is worthwhile. However, it's still not going to save from stupidity
GG - see above. It might not save you but might save a less skilled family member. Even the best driver can misjudge, temporarily lose control, or have to go off the road to avoid an accident. Stability control is a must....on todays roads you need all the extra protection you can get.
richard, the lesson is "don't steer at the pole". just drive normally. bmw's suck in the snow. i will have to admit i came to this conclusion after driving around them in snow storms. can't imagine a GM being any worse.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"...I've driven some cars with nothing more than a steering wheel, gas pedal and a brake....but there were few cars that I couldn't control in the wet stuff..."
I've even driven cars that had one of those items missing. When you drive some of the old clunkers I have you learn to do without that fancy stuff.
In my younger, wilder days we couldn't wait for a nice snow storm to clear the weenies off the road so we could take our rear-wheel, no air bag, no traction control, no seat belt Detroit cars out and spin them around. Looking back it was some pretty foolish stuff but it developed the skill to make it back alive in the worst weather. Years later, when all those about me are afraid to venture out, I have no problems.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I was extremely pleasant on the phone no matter what a poster here is trying to imply. And guess what, got the paper today and how many '08 Elantra's do you think they are advertising now...3 days later? 10 in stock...called the store today, sqame guy answers, says they have 10 and doesn't call me back...again! Unbelievable, but I'm not surprised at all. This guy sounds like he's not real happy to pick up a phone. His loss. Called a Nissan store where I bought 2 cars before. The internet guy was very nice and straightforward and answered all my questions with a couple of phone calls. Bottom line...we 're going in on Monday morning to hopefully buy a Versa hatch for my oldest girl. If the numbers he gave me on the phone are what he shows me in his office, I'm buying another car! He obviously wants to sell cars and takes phone calls and internet inquires' seriously. I had e-mailed him earlier with what I wanted and he had the information for me when I called the next day. Gave me a pretty decent price to. I'll post back how it all went down after we buy her car. Wish me luck!
Hey sandman, just check the ratings on those vehicles before you commit to the Versa. I have an Elantra and have parked it next to my co-workers' Versas. I feel much safer in the Elantra - it feels like a much more substantial vehicle.
Also, the tires on the Versa are too narrow to handle well, IMO. But, if you live in a dry climate, this might not be an issue for you.
At any rate, good luck with your daughter's car purchase!
Make sure you drive through the lot of the salesman that gave you the bad service and thank his boss for him putting you into a competitors vehicle. I'm sure he will appreciate it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Sounded like he was calling from a loud bar or a club, he mumbled something about where I was at and that he couldn't find me... He then called back the second time, and I let my voicemail greeting clear up any confusion... Never heard back from him since.
I bought a Versa HB (non-CVT model) about 6 months ago on short notice for my mother (who totaled her last vehicle, but that's a different story)......nice car. She only drives short around town trips, works great for her.
Having two teenage daughters, thought it would make a good car for them as well, very practical. It's on my short list, should I have to replace what my girls currently drive. X-Shopped Scions and Fit, Versa seemed to be the best match for her.
Not a vehicle I'd want to drive at highway speeds long trips, but around town with occasional trips it's great.
bmw's suck in the snow. i will have to admit i came to this conclusion after driving around them in snow storms. can't imagine a GM being any worse.
Not our AWD. And mine is pretty good with 4 snow tires.
Comes down to engineering again. BMW and Audi are the only manuals with AWD being built (that I know of). Maybe B3 will close the gap, but first they have to get stability control.
i am not driving around the awd cars. they are pretty popular locally, but 2wd are more numerous because they are cheaper to lease. awd with manual trans. subaru comes to mind, mitsubishi starting in the 80's, probably more brands. when it comes to deep snow any sedan is second tier, although i like having one with awd.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
i never said ALL bmw's suck in the snow. this started out with the handling characteristics of a rwd car in snow. i guess i have to spell it out. i have noticed that 2wd bmw's suck in the snow. this is due to the the drivers not buying snow tires. not sure if they can't afford them or are too cheap to buy them. either way, i just drive around them (and others).
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I need some new ones for my '07 Elantra Limited. Consumer Reports rates Goodyear Tripledge as the best ($116/tire at Tire Rack) but I also liked the Kuhmo Solus which came with the car ($87/tire at Tire Rack). Any suggestions on these or other places I could get the same ones for less?
bismarck: Sounds like you had quite the awful experience, but ended up with a mighty fine V8 powered BMW X5. That truck should last you a long, long, time.
joel: The 2010 Mustang & New Fusion are getting great writeups.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
t wrote: "That story is tailor made for the My Salesperson Misled Me discussion. " Lord, spare me the drama. RR wrote trust but verify. My salesman misled me denotes a personal bias imho. But enough of Edmund's titillating forum headlines. Does it relate to this forum Sandman? If so than, Thank You, no need for a secondary wannabe forum that needs so desparately participation.
Several of you responded to my post regarding my potential purchase of an LS Grand Marquis. It has been an interesting day and I shall attempt to address your concerns and good wishes.
First, why do I want a GM? Actually, it doesn't fit my personality at all. I'm a fairly colorful, sporty guy---not bragging, just describing my nature. I come from the generation of the Big Floating Tanks. I haven't owned one of those since my 1989 Town Car. I wanted to float in one of those tanks one last time. I chose the GM because you get most of the luxury features as found in the Lincoln and the Caddy---for a great deal less money. It has a 5 star crash rating and has a history of lasting for many years. Hope that explains my decision.
As to the side airbags, they were optional on the 2008 and are now standard on the 2009. While it does have the traction control, it is missing the stability control that you mentioned. I do feel that the sheer weight of the car itself provides some stability. I realize that you can debate that issue.
Going into this deal, I only wanted clear coat black as my color choice with the narrow ww tires. The color is not as common as others, and adds a tasteful bit of sophistication to the body style. Herein lies the problem. The black GM's demand top price from chauffeuring services and funeral homes. While my dealer had one and could acquire one other, he just couldn't offer a deal on either one. I don't fault him for it. If he can get MSRP, then why not do so? I was greeted cordially by the GSM, especially when he discovered that my credit score was now 976. I took two week old documentation with me. He offered me any Ford, Lincoln or Mercury on the lot at the best interest rate available if I chose to finance a car. I entered the dealership dressed appropriately---Polo shirt, Tommy pants, and my camel hair topcoat. In remembrance of oldfarmer, I wore my hand made Italian loavers which I never wear in the rain or snow. I also pulled out my gold nugget ring and gold bracelet before I left home. Who knows if it made a difference? I simply decided not to tempt fate. The greatest advantage was that Mrs. Richard stayed home. At least I had no more of those old comments like, "Honey, that is a great deal." right in the middle of negotiations.
The offer on the '03 Explorer was a fair one---$9,000. I actually had expected him to say $7k or $8k. After moving away from the clear coat black for obvious reasons, I agreed to consider the Smokestone color. It listed for $30,490. After Employee Pricing, dealer discount, and manufacturer rebate, we landed at $23,834. OTD with tax, tags, and fees put us at $25,009. With $9k for the Explorer, I ended up at $16,009. This is not a bad price for a big car with features like heated seats, wood/leather steering wheel, cassette/cd changer, etc. The leather on the GM is definitely a cut above many others that I have seen.
How did I rate getting the GSM as my first contact? It was sheer luck. He was walking over to the next building as I exited my Explorer. We struck up an immediate conversation and it went from there. He was super nice and never gave me one moment of pressure. The dealership sold 42 units in December. He was extremely happy about that, considering the hard times. I mentioned my friends at Edmunds at that point. His body language showed surprise. I don't look like the Edmunds type. It rather pleased me for him to know this.
Finally, did I make the purchase? No. There are two reasons why. First, my wife and I had agreed on the clear coat black as the color that we wanted. I needed to share the color change with her. Secondly, I have compromised over the years at times and didn't get exactly what I started out to purchase. With the color change, I now have doubts. Usually, if you have doubts, then it may not be what you really want. I don't have to have a new car. I have my two year old convertible and the Explorer is in great shape after its reconditioning last summer. It only has 87k on it. If I do have a change of heart, I still have until 7pm Monday to get the rebates.
Thanks to all of you who wished me well. It was the first time ever that I sat in a dealership feeling confident because I had done my research and learned so much from you guys.
Almost unbelievable, in today's market, a dealer wants more for a black Mecury!!!!! Is this car actually flying off the lots to funeral homes and car service companys??? I would think these businesses would also be affected by the overall downturn, and not be in a strong buying position for replacement cars. If there is a premium on this color, why doesn't Mecury just blow black on more cars going out of the plant?
This sounds to me like saleman talk when they do not actually have a car in your color available and want to sell you something out of stock.
Comments
But, that unit was still in the weekly (sunday) ad at least 3 weeks past that, so almost a month real time. And this is in the local paper, so they must have to submit a new ad every week.
I can see maybe the next weekend, but anything after that screams of fraud (or at least sleaziness). At best it is pure laziness.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm just guessing but these people may be dealing with a salesman at another store and they're trying to "keep him honest" by soliciting other offers from dealers they have no intention of buying from. I've even done this myself when buying supplies for the farm. My regular go-to guy gives me a price and especially if there's been a bump in the cost I'll ask for a price from a competitor. It's for my peace of mind and I'll always let the other guy know if I'll be sticking with my regular guy. Occasionally, the new person has superior service or price and I'll switch suppliers. To not keep tab on your costs is a sure way to go broke.
I guess what I'm saying is perhaps not every squirly request comes from some kid in his parent's basement.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
It's not foolproof, but it works better than having no set time.
And typically when someone does call it means they have done their research, they sorta know what they want.
Plus the 2 main reasons for a call is the customer is trying to find out inventory, and shopping for a saleperson over the phone.
If the dealer that sandman called had his inventory, and the salesperson would have been friendly, then as he said, chances are he would have put a dip on a unit.
People phone in because it's easier and quicker to "get a feel" if a salesperson is good or not (friendly, helpful etc) by a quick 2 minute call, rather than a driving to and spending time at a dealership.
I've gotten many deals from folks who called and I was the only dealer in the area who was friendly, and knew my specials etc...
To get to my dealership they passed 5 crappy ones who failed to learn current specials, or have basic telephone skills.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
More than careless, stupid, on so many levels.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Only 3 weeks? I saw an ad for a Toyota Sienna CE (base) run for almost 2- 3 months after it was "sold". I was in the market for a CE, the Toyota dealership didn't have any on the lot... supposedly because no one wanted the base model. Ad comes out for the CE, I call first thing in the morning. Salesman doesn't know about it, then comes back and says it was already sold. I see the same ad for the next few months or so. This was back in 04' when the Sienna was a hot minivan. I would guess the dealership sold quite a few of the LE's and XLE's from people calling in about the CE. As it is so often said,"They wouldn't do it if it didn't work."
Due to misleading screamer ads, internet inventories not kept up to date, and inaccurate information given over the phone, it's always better to flatfoot a dealership before making any calls or internet inquiries. This is covered in the "Jipst Method" of car buying. Do a google search for more information. :surprise:
Richard
PS - the $14,990 Camry I asked about last week turned out to be a hoax - big surprise. It's too bad - my uncle would have bought two at that price just because the deal was good. He would have actually paid the dealer $16,500 (they quoted $16,199) for the same car (which, of course, they didn't have, but that didn't stop them from quoting him a price and telling him to come in!) It's too bad some places still want to do business this way - it gives our good sales friends here a bad name to the general public.
That is a very good point. On the one hand, it is a lot of car for the money and it is like going back to a 1960 or 70 car experience. However, those safety features are absolutely necessary today and stability control is becoming so important it will become mandatory. Richard, I hope you consider jimbres comments.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Instead of stability control it has traction control which along with the 4 wheel ABS the car handles just fine.
I happened to come across a used low mile 2005 X5 V8 with all the toys at a GMC store. Stopped over to find it sitting on the back lot, filthy from being traded in the day before (the works, kids' toys still in the back seat, covered in Cheerios, etc.).
Figured it was actually a good thing, I got to see how the previous owner treated it.
I was immediately approached by a salesman who seemed eager to deal with me not to attend their sales meeting. Test drove the car, all was well except it seemed like it would need tires soon. Mentioned that to the sales guy, they threw a number at me on my trade in (that actually seemed decent), I told them I'd get back to them -- after the 'meet my sales manager and would you buy the car today' bit.
I called back in the morning, told him I'm interested in the car, and would be securing my own financing. He (the sales guy) kept asking for a credit app, I had the loan preapproved same day, and agreed on a OTD price (+tax) over the phone. He kept on pushing me to take the car home that night, basically trying to spot me right then and there. He was getting the car detailed that day (Tuesday before Thanksgiving) for me to take delivery the following day,
So... I call Wednesday morning, my sales guy is out sick, and the sales manager is not in. I'm patched through to another highly trained sales professional who always answered his phone in Spanish... After making the 30 mile drive to the dealership, now they don't have a working fax machine for my credit union to fax the loan paperwork. Two hours later... Finally we can start signing away, All of a sudden we now have a $599 doc fee. And they yet again are insisting on me filling out their own credit app. I refused on both counts... We then had to argue over sales tax figure -- I'm licensing the car out of state and was not going to pay tax at the time of purchase. Five hours later -- day before Thanksgiving, trying to leave town -- I'm finally out of there.
The fun is now just beginning... The same night, at 11:30pm my original (out sick that day) salesman drunk dials me from his cellphone. Twice. Their wonderful detail guy had thrown the floormats on top of the still wet shampooed carpets that pretty much got moldy due to the car sitting on their lot for two days afterward with the windows closed.
The following Monday I get a call from my credit union wondering if I decided to withdraw my application, as they are yet to hear anything back from the dealership and the loan is not funded. To make a long story short, it took them over 30 days to send the payoff for my trade in after repeated lies about when it was sent, being unable to find tracking numbers, etc. I left fourteen (14) messages for the finance manager that went unreturned (I actually kept track of this) -- the one and only time I was able to get this sh1thead on the phone was after sittingon hold for 15 minutes for the GM or owner of the place...
Anyhow, I AM happy with the car and ultimately the deal I was able to get. However, this was by far the most debilitating car buying experience I've had thus far (having purchased 15+ vehicles in the past). It's absolutely astonishing to me (also in sales) that this is the way they conduct business.
Sorry about the long rant, happy New Year!
Thanks Joel....5 star rating all around....it gets the Driver stamp of approval, go for it Richard. Airbags, abs, traction control are necessities today.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Regarding those Gr Marquis, even the '96 I sold for my Mother handled fine....12 year old car, based on an old (but updated) platform.
In my brief time driving the GM, I began to appreciate what it is those cars can do. You're not going to win any autox events with them. You aren't going to win any stop light wars with them either (unless you're up against a hybrid).
What they do, they do well. That is, driving in comfort, with easy power, and just enough handling to keep you out of trouble. They drive "EASY", if that makes any sense. That '96 would crack 22 MPG, so the new ones should be able to do better than that. RWD handling (which is a good thing), anti-lock (another good thing). Ford's been making them long enough that build quality is very good. As good as my Tahoe is in the open road, the Merc was just as capable.
I would have kept the '96, if I had a couple fewer cars in the GG stable.
Thanks for sharing your story bis...it was fascinating. You made a gutsy move by buying the car before it was detailed....although as you say, it might be better to see it that way. Also, you probably got a better price on it since it didn't sit around too long. Would this have happened at a non B3 store?......I seem to doubt it. Sounds like a dealer that is really struggling to stick around.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Most stability control systems also include traction control. I believe that this is true of Ford's AdvanceTrac system.
Some experts have called stability control the most significant automotive safety development since the seat belt. Federal regs will mandate it in all new cars sold in the U.S. beginning in 2012. I wouldn't consider a car that lacked it.
Maybe it's because I've driven some cars with nothing more than a steering wheel, gas pedal and a brake pedal to control the car (on less than sterling tires), but there are few cars that I couldn't control in the wet stuff. I'll make special exemptions for some sports cars with sport treads on them.
Even the 12 year old Merc GM was relatively easy to control in what's amounted to about the only real snow we've had in SW OH (so far).
Maybe it's because I've had experience driving these beasts. But, I certainly wouldn't fret driving a Gr Marquis at all (particularly a new one) in inclement weather, regardless of stability control.
"This person is no danger of buying a vehicle today"
One of my favorite things to say to management after I qualify someone in 3 minutes
Hope everyone had a great new year..... Myself I stayed off the sauce and performed the duties of Designated
testdriver....GP
I caught that JM..... :mad:
GP
You are ready to fly the nest richard, I've taught you everything I know, which some (isell) will tell you is substantial. :P
Remember, use the "Jipst Method" and you will soar like an eagle... then swoop down to club them like a baby seal. I know you will make "Team Jipster" proud, all 2 or 3 of us... what with the economy, membership dues and all. Good luck.
franchise. Dealmaker auto group aka Seaway Chev./Buick in northern NY is in default with GMAC.
http://www.newzjunky.com/court/1224dealmaker.htm
A few months ago they closed their Ford store in suburban Syracuse NY.
Funny that all the used cars are gone but the lot is loaded with new Ford
cars and trucks as well as a KR and Cobra stangs buried in the snow
out front. This is the 6th Ford dealer to either go broke or take a buyout
from Ford in the Syracuse area.
http://www.syracuse.com/business/index.ssf?/base/business-14/122605180193340.xml- &coll=1
A local longtime (1948) single prop. family Linc/Merc. dealer in another upscale
Syr. burb. of Manlius took a FoMoCo buy out and sold their prime location
for a strip mall/drug store instead of building a new building/service dept.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-187744842.html
I had done some research and dug up a few candidates near home that I believed we could finance for 2-3 years within his target of $150/mo with about $1k down and some that we could arrange a cash deal on. First stop was to see a Chevy minivan at a megachain dealer. Well, to make a long story shorter, it became apparent that not everyone has heard of the credit crunch. We showed up to try on a $3500 minivan (they "just sold") and wound up entertaining a numbers pitch on a $10k PT Cruiser. Geee... 75 month loan on a 3-year-old car? Where do I sign?!
After wasting about 3 hours at that place, I took him to a couple of private lots to browse the goods before ultimately ending up at the type of store I saved till last ... the dreaded Buy Here Pay Here lot. I gotta be honest, this particular owner has completely changed my view of the BHPH business. He was very up front about everything. Basically took my brother by the hand and led him through his first [dealer] car buying experience. He even sat down at the computer with my brother, pulled up his credit score and report, and went through it with him! I was really amazed. Even more amazing was the fact that his score came back MUCH higher than any of us anticipated. He was actually kind of sort of financible .... welll.... he WOULD have been financible a year ago, anyway. Not so much these days.
But the man tried anyway. He explained that there is no way my brother should be looking to finance very long. He said 2 years is really where you want to be. Now, of course, this wasn't news to me ... hence the $3500 minivan at the top of my list ... but it was so nice to hear it coming from the mouth of a salesman! Anyhoo... we wound up driving and choosing a '99 Subaru Legacy Wagon. Very clean and well kept for the year. BUT ... unfortunately, my brother is in dire need of wheels pronto and the seller is not able to arrange financing so quickly. My father has now intervened with a checkbook. *sigh* So much for my 40-year-old brother finally financing his first car and getting on the road back to credit recovery. But I guess at least he's back on the asphalt road. In the end, I believe the Subaru was the type of vehicle the seller doesn't typically deal with. Just about everything else there was an overpriced, high-mile, late-model vehicle. Pretty much what you expect at BHPH. And I believe he let it go for a relatively small profit. I just hope it holds up to my brother's abuse until he can pay back my parents.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thank you for reminding me of the difference. I remember the salesman taking us on a test drive in a BMW in 1999. He got it up to 70 mph and then put 2 wheels onto the gravel - headed for a telephone pole. By the way, he was steering with 2 fingers. There was no sliding, no swerving, no crashing into the pole......he just turned the wheel and got it back on the road like nothing happened. So I agree that stability control is an absolute necessity. Car makers should respect their customers enough that it should be on every model produced.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG - see above. It might not save you but might save a less skilled family member. Even the best driver can misjudge, temporarily lose control, or have to go off the road to avoid an accident. Stability control is a must....on todays roads you need all the extra protection you can get.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Generally speaking, BHPH lots don't report to the credit bureaus.
So, your brothers credit wouldn't have gotten better anyway.
the new ones are waiting for the manufacturer to pick them up.
bmw's suck in the snow. i will have to admit i came to this conclusion after driving around them in snow storms.
can't imagine a GM being any worse.
I've even driven cars that had one of those items missing. When you drive some of the old clunkers I have you learn to do without that fancy stuff.
In my younger, wilder days we couldn't wait for a nice snow storm to clear the weenies off the road so we could take our rear-wheel, no air bag, no traction control, no seat belt Detroit cars out and spin them around. Looking back it was some pretty foolish stuff but it developed the skill to make it back alive in the worst weather. Years later, when all those about me are afraid to venture out, I have no problems.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Called a Nissan store where I bought 2 cars before. The internet guy was very nice and straightforward and answered all my questions with a couple of phone calls. Bottom line...we 're going in on Monday morning to hopefully buy a Versa hatch for my oldest girl. If the numbers he gave me on the phone are what he shows me in his office, I'm buying another car! He obviously wants to sell cars and takes phone calls and internet inquires' seriously. I had e-mailed him earlier with what I wanted and he had the information for me when I called the next day. Gave me a pretty decent price to.
I'll post back how it all went down after we buy her car. Wish me luck!
The Sandman
Also, the tires on the Versa are too narrow to handle well, IMO. But, if you live in a dry climate, this might not be an issue for you.
At any rate, good luck with your daughter's car purchase!
Make sure you drive through the lot of the salesman that gave you the bad service and thank his boss for him putting you into a competitors vehicle. I'm sure he will appreciate it.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
the new ones are waiting for the manufacturer to pick them up.
Normally what happens is that the dealer sells off his used inventory because he owns at least part of it.
The manufacture is then finds other dealers to take the new inventory.
Having two teenage daughters, thought it would make a good car for them as well, very practical. It's on my short list, should I have to replace what my girls currently drive. X-Shopped Scions and Fit, Versa seemed to be the best match for her.
Not a vehicle I'd want to drive at highway speeds long trips, but around town with occasional trips it's great.
can't imagine a GM being any worse.
Not our AWD. And mine is pretty good with 4 snow tires.
Comes down to engineering again. BMW and Audi are the only manuals with AWD being built (that I know of). Maybe B3 will close the gap, but first they have to get stability control.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
awd with manual trans. subaru comes to mind, mitsubishi starting in the 80's, probably more brands.
when it comes to deep snow any sedan is second tier, although i like having one with awd.
Whoa! Hang on there. That's a pretty general and misleading statement.
With the standard all season tires they are passable. With summer tires they are impossible.
The way to drive a BMW in the snow is with dedicated winter tires. I could, and did, take my BMW just about anywhere in snow until I started plowing.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
That's hardly a reason to say that all BMWs suck in the snow!
this started out with the handling characteristics of a rwd car in snow.
i guess i have to spell it out.
i have noticed that 2wd bmw's suck in the snow.
this is due to the the drivers not buying snow tires.
not sure if they can't afford them or are too cheap to buy them.
either way, i just drive around them (and others).
joel: The 2010 Mustang & New Fusion are getting great writeups.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
"That story is tailor made for the My Salesperson Misled Me discussion. "
Lord, spare me the drama. RR wrote trust but verify. My salesman misled me denotes a personal bias imho. But enough of Edmund's titillating forum headlines. Does it relate to this forum Sandman? If so than, Thank You, no need for a secondary wannabe forum that needs so desparately participation.
First, why do I want a GM? Actually, it doesn't fit my personality at all. I'm a fairly colorful, sporty guy---not bragging, just describing my nature. I come from the generation of the Big Floating Tanks. I haven't owned one of those since my 1989 Town Car. I wanted to float in one of those tanks one last time. I chose the GM because you get most of the luxury features as found in the Lincoln and the Caddy---for a great deal less money. It has a 5 star crash rating and has a history of lasting for many years. Hope that explains my decision.
As to the side airbags, they were optional on the 2008 and are now standard on the 2009. While it does have the traction control, it is missing the stability control that you mentioned. I do feel that the sheer weight of the car itself provides some stability. I realize that you can debate that issue.
Going into this deal, I only wanted clear coat black as my color choice with the narrow ww tires. The color is not as common as others, and adds a tasteful bit of sophistication to the body style. Herein lies the problem. The black GM's demand top price from chauffeuring services and funeral homes. While my dealer had one and could acquire one other, he just couldn't offer a deal on either one. I don't fault him for it. If he can get MSRP, then why not do so? I was greeted cordially by the GSM, especially when he discovered that my credit score was now 976. I took two week old documentation with me. He offered me any Ford, Lincoln or Mercury on the lot at the best interest rate available if I chose to finance a car. I entered the dealership dressed appropriately---Polo shirt, Tommy pants, and my camel hair topcoat. In remembrance of oldfarmer, I wore my hand made Italian loavers which I never wear in the rain or snow. I also pulled out my gold nugget ring and gold bracelet before I left home. Who knows if it made a difference? I simply decided not to tempt fate. The greatest advantage was that Mrs. Richard stayed home. At least I had no more of those old comments like, "Honey, that is a great deal." right in the middle of negotiations.
The offer on the '03 Explorer was a fair one---$9,000. I actually had expected him to say $7k or $8k. After moving away from the clear coat black for obvious reasons, I agreed to consider the Smokestone color. It listed for $30,490. After Employee Pricing, dealer discount, and manufacturer rebate, we landed at $23,834. OTD with tax, tags, and fees put us at $25,009. With $9k for the Explorer, I ended up at $16,009. This is not a bad price for a big car with features like heated seats, wood/leather steering wheel, cassette/cd changer, etc. The leather on the GM is definitely a cut above many others that I have seen.
How did I rate getting the GSM as my first contact? It was sheer luck. He was walking over to the next building as I exited my Explorer. We struck up an immediate conversation and it went from there. He was super nice and never gave me one moment of pressure. The dealership sold 42 units in December. He was extremely happy about that, considering the hard times. I mentioned my friends at Edmunds at that point. His body language showed surprise. I don't look like the Edmunds type. It rather pleased me for him to know this.
Finally, did I make the purchase? No. There are two reasons why. First, my wife and I had agreed on the clear coat black as the color that we wanted. I needed to share the color change with her. Secondly, I have compromised over the years at times and didn't get exactly what I started out to purchase. With the color change, I now have doubts. Usually, if you have doubts, then it may not be what you really want. I don't have to have a new car. I have my two year old convertible and the Explorer is in great shape after its reconditioning last summer. It only has 87k on it. If I do have a change of heart, I still have until 7pm Monday to get the rebates.
Thanks to all of you who wished me well. It was the first time ever that I sat in a dealership feeling confident because I had done my research and learned so much from you guys.
Richard
This sounds to me like saleman talk when they do not actually have a car in your color available and want to sell you something out of stock.