Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
The only times I remember activation on mine was in 'weird' situations, where the 'help' was not actually needed. Both times I remember was when I was doing somewhat heavy braking. Once my car got into some sand/gravel in the corner, the other time it encountered rough asphalt. In both cases this caused the wheels to move in different enough speeds to trigger the traction control. In neither time was I anywhere near a loss of control or in need of help from the traction control.
As the owner of a 2007 Corvette, with what I would think is GMs most intelligent stability control, this cars power on a dry road will easily overcome the stability control and put you off the road quicker than the electronics can detect the need to reduce throttle and start working the individual wheel brakes.
Which is effectively the same condition that a less powerful car will encounter where there is snow or ice.
I'm not saying that these electronic assists are not an inprovement in auto safety. But how many times have I seen posts on here about people seeing the late model high dollar SUVs, many probably with all wheel drive, traction control, and/or stability control off the road in ditches in snowy conditions. People will over-drive any assists the manufactors build into cars.
Where there is reduced traction due to adverse weather or road conditions, slowing down and driving more carefully is what you should do, not rely on your electronics to bail you out.
Ok, a show of hands. Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
Some of those people without stability control are no longer with us to put up their hands. Unfortunately they let 2 wheels go off on the gravel, tried to get back on the road, and before they could get their car under control the flew across the road into oncoming traffic.
We could have a show of hands of how many people have been actually saved by wearing a seat belt. I have been wearing them for about 40 years. One time they probably saved me from serious injury. My ABS has saved me from accidents once or twice I am quite sure. Traction control warns you when the wheels start to slide so it often alerts you to slippery roads and to drive more carefully before you get into a problem. If it saves your life or a loved one just once it is worth the price. It's kind of like insurance....a waste of money unless the day comes when you need it.
Several of you responded to my post regarding my potential purchase of an LS Grand Marquis.
Thanks for sharing your experience Richard. I understand your fascination with those big American made land cruisers.....they were the cars we always wanted to own growing up. Sometimes I see one and think what a great buy, all that metal and comfort for mid $20,000 range - it is hard to pass up. I can understand giving up stability control if this is your dream car.
Like bolivar said, I don't see why Ford didn't anticipate a demand for black, after all that is where these cars really sell, limos, and funeral homes, and I guess taxis though they will have the plastic seats and will be yellow usually.
Just a suggestion but maybe you should go on line and see if there is a black one available at the right price in your area. It would just tell you if the dealer is on the level about this statement.
I think you have thought this car through very well and I hope you get what you want. And, I think they were extremely generous with your trade in - I don't think they'll get that much for it when they sell it.
Also a good question for the pros. What is the best way to dress when shopping for a car? Does the type of car you are looking for make a difference? What do you look for in potential customers as far as clothes are concerned? Does too much jewellery mean he's got money? I usually wear pants with holes, running shoes that are falling apart, torn shirt, tell them we need a new car but we'll have to give up dinners 3 times a week. (then head off to the BMW dealer)
I can understand why you and bolivar were surprised about the black GM demanding top price. I was surprised as well. None of my research indicated this. I do believe the GSM and I'll tell you why. I just got off the phone with an old friend who sold his Ford dealership about three years ago. His place was where we used to live and I had his children in school many years ago. He said that he could never keep a black GM on the lot. In fact, many of them were special orders. The service industry used them and would always pay top dollar.
Also, I went to Autotrader a few minutes ago and plugged in all GM's within 300 miles of where I now live. Out of 261 GM's, only two were black. Both cars were 2008's and had above average mileage. Service industry cars? Perhaps. Based on these observations, I have to believe that the GSM was truthful. To bolivar: The dealer that I visited yesterday did have the black GM sitting on the lot. It wasn't as if he didn't have my color. BTW, the 2009's do have stabilizer control now.
As to your question posed to the pros regarding appropriate dress, we have had that lengthy discussion here before. The opinions were mixed, but most salesmen agreed that it wasn't a top priority.
Thanks for your good wishes and for understanding the mindset of the Tanker Generation.
Generally speaking, BHPH lots don't report to the credit bureaus.
Oh... huh. Didn't realize that. The man did say he would be using a bank ... but, and I didn't think about this at the time, that does defy the whole BHPH thing, doesn't it? Weird. Is it possible he does business 2 different ways? I don't know why he would. Maybe he really isn't a BHPH, but just has that on his sign?? I dunno.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
Mine kicks in on a very regular basis. Do I think its necessary on those occassions? No. I attribute this to overly aggressive systems. For the life of me, for instance, I can't figure out why my G35X flashes the traction light and cuts power to the wheels when accelerating at half throttle through a turn in 2nd gear at 20 mph. This also happened all the time with both my 350Z and Honda Accord. At least with those I can understand that I may have spun the tires a tad without the TCS ... but the X? No way. I autoX this car and I know what it takes to spin the tires. I come nowhere near that on public roads, yet that light flashes at me at least once a day.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I must say that I was surprised myself when I ordered it. I had not ordered one in two years. Scores now go up to 990. They said that I was in the 98th percentile. I had three negatives which I don't really understand. They said that my available credit limits were too low. That's BS I think. I only have two credit cards. One has available credit at $52,000 and the other one has a cap of $25,000. Why would I need or want more?
The other negative said that my balances were too high compared to their credit limits. That is also BS. I pay off my balances each month when the bills come. A final note said that there were too many inquiries on my credit report. Who is inquiring for heaven's sake? Also, with those three negatives, how can my score be 976? I've been meaning to contact them but just haven't had time. Credit reports are strange animals to read and interpret. BTW, this report was ordered from TransUnion.
"...have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control..."
On dry pavement I can chirp the tires without the TC coming on. I think I remember once under full throttle it came on as I was really hauling [non-permissible content removed]. I always thought traction control was more for wet/snow control than anything else. Don't have SC.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Let's see now. You have four choices. "Loaver" is the Italian spelling for "loafer"? The letter "V" is just below the letter "F" on the keyboard and therefore is in close association and is kin to the "F"? "Loaver" is a newly coined word for "loafer" and its true etymology has not yet been written? The poster made an error? Heaven forbid that #4 is a choice. :P
richard.....as you say, you want what you want. I can relate to that.
Why not ask the LM dealer to order you exactly what you want from the factory? It'll take 6-8 weeks, but you'll get exactly what you want. I know what the dealer will say....."last days for employee pricing, can't predict what LM will do in the future, etc, etc." But, I'm a betting man. And, I'm betting that the new sales figures that are about to come out won't be very kind to any of the "big 3" (in a series of unkind months/quarters). What do you think LM will do? I'd say they'll extend the current promotions. But, it is a risk.
Regarding your choice in cars, I can't fault it. As I mentioned before, I came to like the Gr Marquis in the brief time it was in my stable.
q....sorry to hear about your brother's woes....especially at 40 years old. I'm also kind of surprised that the BHPH lot didn't write the paper themselves on a ride. That's what they do. I hear their pitch on TV all the time...."JOB+DOWNPAYMENT=CAR".
I also agree that stability control in today's cars are WAY TOO aggressive....particularly on RWD cars. Except.....
We had a little ice storm hit unexpectedly last week. I was driving the Accord. I will give that car credit. It's stability control has never come on....even in the rain. That is, until the ice storm I was driving in. I must have hit a black ice patch because I didn't see it, certainly felt it. I felt the steering wheel go numb and the back end start to come around. Stability control light came on. And, before I knew it, everything was "snapped back" in order. Very weird (but welcome) feeling.
I ordinarily keep the Tahoe in 2WD. But, in the rain or snow, I do switch it to "auto". Never felt any slippage at all, regardless on the conditions. It's either very good, very seamless. Or, there's so much weight planting the tires to the pavement that there's no need for it to activate.
Thanks for those thoughts gg. I,too, have wondered if the rebates might be extended. As you say, it would be a risk---but an interesting one. I forgot about your Tahoe. I had a '98 model that I kept for three years---my only time on a lease. I really enjoyed that vehicle. We had a rare ice storm in '99 and I was the only one who was able to get to work, except for the boss. He drove his F150.
I just happened to think about your house damage from the storm. Though it was a very bad thing, I know that you must be enjoying the new fixtures and renovations. At times, something good can come out of something bad. I hope that has been the case for you.
I think Trans Union uses a scale that goes up to 950, or so I thought. Some of the new online sites like CreditKarma have a different scale but you can convert it to what they say is a score in line with what the Big 3 reporting bureaus have. I'm not sure it is directly comparable though.
Then again, the credit bureaus give you guys a different score altogether so who's to know what any score means. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Ok, a show of hands. Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
While we're at it let's see how many people use their wipers when it's not raining.... :P
Traction control is great in snow and not a bad thing in rain. I don't see where I;d use it otherwise.
Richard - stick with your color. There's nothing like spending that much on something and having one thing driving younuts. Instant buyers remorse.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Ok, a show of hands. Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
It's like asking "How many people have actually gotten their airbags to go off"
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
I did. While driving my wife's then-new Lexus, I stupidly looked away from the road & focused my attention on the car's unfamiliar & fancy sound system. When I looked up, I noticed that the road had curved to the left, putting me in danger of running off the right side of the road. So I turned the wheel to the left, but I overcorrected to the point where I was on the verge of losing control of the car.
Then the car's VSC (Vehicle Stability Control - Toyota's label for SC) kicked in, applying the brakes gently & reducing power. A dashboard light went on momentarily & then all was well. I had been saved from my idiocy. (It goes without saying that I should have parked the car before fooling around with the audio system. God was watching out for fools that day.)
That was in 1999, when VSC was a $550 option on my wife's Lexus ES 300. (She now drives an ES 350, & VSC is standard equipment on that car.) There's no question in my mind that stability control saved my bacon that day. Even if I had escaped injury, the cost of repairing the car would have been much more than $550.
I checked my files. The FICO score only goes up to 850. Mine was 805 in 2005. That report was ordered from Equifax. I'll order one from them tomorrow and we'll see if they have changed their scoring grid. Apparently, TransUnion has changed theirs. I've got to go eat lunch now---baked chicken on herb rice. I'm starved.
I think Trans Union uses a scale that goes up to 950, or so I thought.
The Big 3 - TransUnion, Equifax & Experian - all report scores on a 300 to 850 scale. I'm pretty sure of this, having paid for credit reports from all 3 of them just a couple of months ago.
I have heard that some car dealerships in parts of the Midwest use a proprietary regional scoring system that runs up to 1,000. Perhaps Richard's dealer subscribes to this.
The way those reports are generated, they give you the top three things that lower your score the most. If the score goes up to 990, and you are at 976, there must be something wrong to cost you those 14 points.
What they are saying is that to get to 990, you need infinite credit and you need to never use it. Even if you pay it off every month, you do on average have a balance.
No matter who you are, they list the three biggest negatives, and if you look at posts on financial boards you'll see people complaining about the same comments that you are... I know someone that their biggest negative was that their longest-term revolving credit account (credit card) was only open for 23 years...
When you understand that it is software generating the report, and it has to spit out the three biggest negatives, it makes sense...
Well, you may want to try the "Tires Tires Tires Tires Tires" discussion, but if you don't, I have 25k miles on a set of Goodyear Tripletreds on our MPV. I really like them. They are awesome in rain or dry roads, handle and wear well, have been fine in the limited amount of snow we have had, a tad noisy on concrete roads though. If you have a Goodyear dealership around you they will probably match Tire Racks price. They also have cash back promotionals from time to time on the Tripletreds.
Good decision to walk richard, which is covered in the "Jipst (not Jipster or Jip!!) Method" of car buying. Smokestone? Sounds like a color left over from the 60's... maybe something for Cheech & Chong?
Let the man get what he wants. When somebody else is willing to make the payments, THEN they get to choose the colors. I wouldn't choose black for that car but to each his own.
I had to have them do a dealer trade 165 miles away to get the color I wanted.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Let the man get what he wants. When somebody else is willing to make the payments, THEN they get to choose the colors. I wouldn't choose black for that car but to each his own.
That "Smokestone" comment was said in jest oldfarmer. Of course richard should get the color he wants. I wrote that he did well with walking over not getting the color he wanted. Now get your "cranky" head outta the snowbanks will ya? :P
That comment was made to ‘snake’ because he’s considering moving onto a Nissan product when he's finished killing his Elantra (which by now you’d think he’d have done).
Now, if you go back and look at post 37544 you’ll see that ‘sandman’ (whose original post, way back there somewhere, prompted my response to ‘snake’) is probably going to buy a Versa for his daughter. Soooo, even when I make jest I seem to know what I’m talking about when it comes to this car stuff.
Therefore, when I say a cow is going to lay an egg it’s time to go fetch a skillet. In time you’ll learn this, just like Mrs. jmonroe.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That comment was made to ‘snake’ because he’s considering moving onto a Nissan product when he's finished killing his Elantra (which by now you’d think he’d have done).
Oh yeah pull me into this why don't you?
As for killing off my Elantra, I am trying but they make them so well,
Also the Versa is just one of nine on my short list.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Here is my story about traction/stability control. I was going up an icy hill a few days ago, 2006 Lexus LS. Deserted road, thank goodness. The car kept going slower and slower and finally stopped...then started rolling backwards.
Apparently the t/s killed the engine when the car started rolling backwards so I had very little control. When I would try to apply the brakes I would start to slew sideways so just had to steer to a stop after about 150 to 200 yards, restart the engine and turn around. No harm done but it could have been a disaster if there had been traffic behind me.
Houdini's are famous for escaping danger ... glad you were okay.
I'm a bit leary of turning over control of my car to stability control, for the very reasons you wrote about. Seems like there would be a kill switch for the certain instances which you discribed. I'm sure the positive of s/c far outweigh the negatives though..
You can turn it off in my car so it was at least partly my fault. The car is so quiet that I did not even realize the engine had stalled...until I had stopped rolling. I always just leave it on and just did not think about it. Even if I had I would have thought it would be better to have it on.
I agree that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I am mainly telling my tale as a public service in case anyone else finds themselves in this situation.
Also the Versa is just one of nine on my short list.
Wow, and what do you call a "long list"?
I don't think I have to tell you that when you're at the negotiating table, I wouldn't mention your "short list". I'd be willing to bet the biz guys here would walk you when they heard that. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If I want an involving drive I take my 318ti Club Sport. No electronic safety nanny to pull the plug when things get interesting. It does have ABS but I find that it rarely kicks in on the track, never mind the street. For really nasty winter weather I like to take my old Wrangler; the only thing managed by the computer is the ignition and fuel injection. Blessed simplicity. With Dunlop Rover RVXT all-season/winter tires I find that I don't need 4WD unless the snow is very deep.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Here is my story about traction/stability control. I was going up an icy hill a few days ago, 2006 Lexus LS. Deserted road, thank goodness. The car kept going slower and slower and finally stopped...then started rolling backwards.
I am not technologically knowledgeable but I don't think you would have done better if you didn't have traction control. The road might have been so icy that both rear wheels couldn't get traction......and probably no vehicle could have gone up the hill.
Also, keep in mind I am technologically challenged, but I don't think stability control would help too much in this situation either. The wheels have to be able to grip onto something for it to work - they can't defy physics and magically go up a sheet of ice.
You did state it was better to have TC and SC so I know this doesn't apply to you or most, but saying you would be better off without these features is like saying you are better off without seatbelts because one person in 500,000 is saved because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt...he got thrown clear.
I am mainly telling my tale as a public service in case anyone else finds themselves in this situation.
OK, now my tale.
Just this past summer I was driving Mrs. jmonroe’s 06’ Sonata LX (V6 with full fledged Stability Control not just Traction Control like my 05’ XG 350). I noticed that the car needed gas, so as the nice guy that I am; I pulled in and filled it up. It was raining and the exit I used was about 30 yards from the corner light which I noticed had changed just as I was pulling out. So, I floored it and it almost died (me too) because it sensed slipping on the wet road. Then as I was bracing myself it must have caught onto what I wanted it to do and the hesitation stopped and the car gained speed, just in time to avoid someone climbing up my her tail pipe.
I’ve been driving for a couple years now and I don’t like the idea of something taking control of the car I’m driving. I’ve done just fine when left to my own ability. I’ve actually thought of turning that system off under those situations but so far I’ve successfully resisted that urge.
I guess it’s hard to teach an old driver new tricks.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Here's mine, which took place while co-driving a BMW X5 in the 2000 Alcan Winter Rally. Think: Duel meets Ice Station Zebra...
It happened on a transit stage between Coldfoot and Fairbanks when my co-driver Russ decided to pass a trucker who was apparently well and truly ticked off by the hoards of rally cars buzzing south sporting 100w driving lights. As Russ pulled out to pass, the trucker crowded us onto the snow covered shoulder. Russ completed the pass and cranked the wheel hard right to get the left wheels out of the snow. The X5 got quite a bit sideways and the DSC, apparently flustered by the speed, steering angle, and yaw rate, ramped the throttle way back. As in OFF. Fortunately, the X5 decided to relinquish control to Russ before we became a hood ornament on the front grill of the annoyed trucker.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well I would call the long list all the cars that would fit my budget.
I am not expecting to go replace my car anytime soon so I am not really working on eliminating cars to quickly. However since we have one car thats 11 years old with 140K miles on it and another thats 9 years old with 160K miles on it I am keeping my eyes open just in case. Trust me when I go into negotiations I will have a short list of one, with an alternate or two just in case.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I believe that stability control/traction control are more helpful than AWD in the inclement weather. If I turn the stability control off on my wife's '07 X3 and try to start going uphill, all 4 tires spin (I should really put a set of 4 snow tires on it). If I leave the stability control on, the car goes with ZERO DRAMA.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I guess it’s hard to teach an old driver new tricks
You meant old dog... right? :P
I think stability control is over-rated, and the studies showing 58% reduction in injuries bogus. New "er" technologies like s/c cannot cover for all the variables and contingencies where activation actually becomes counter productive. Yeah, I'll take it, but I will still rely on my good driving abilities/instincts and cat like reflexes over this so called modern miracle.
Comments
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
The only times I remember activation on mine was in 'weird' situations, where the 'help' was not actually needed. Both times I remember was when I was doing somewhat heavy braking. Once my car got into some sand/gravel in the corner, the other time it encountered rough asphalt. In both cases this caused the wheels to move in different enough speeds to trigger the traction control. In neither time was I anywhere near a loss of control or in need of help from the traction control.
As the owner of a 2007 Corvette, with what I would think is GMs most intelligent stability control, this cars power on a dry road will easily overcome the stability control and put you off the road quicker than the electronics can detect the need to reduce throttle and start working the individual wheel brakes.
Which is effectively the same condition that a less powerful car will encounter where there is snow or ice.
I'm not saying that these electronic assists are not an inprovement in auto safety. But how many times have I seen posts on here about people seeing the late model high dollar SUVs, many probably with all wheel drive, traction control, and/or stability control off the road in ditches in snowy conditions. People will over-drive any assists the manufactors build into cars.
Where there is reduced traction due to adverse weather or road conditions, slowing down and driving more carefully is what you should do, not rely on your electronics to bail you out.
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
Some of those people without stability control are no longer with us to put up their hands. Unfortunately they let 2 wheels go off on the gravel, tried to get back on the road, and before they could get their car under control the flew across the road into oncoming traffic.
We could have a show of hands of how many people have been actually saved by wearing a seat belt. I have been wearing them for about 40 years. One time they probably saved me from serious injury. My ABS has saved me from accidents once or twice I am quite sure. Traction control warns you when the wheels start to slide so it often alerts you to slippery roads and to drive more carefully before you get into a problem. If it saves your life or a loved one just once it is worth the price. It's kind of like insurance....a waste of money unless the day comes when you need it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Thanks for sharing your experience Richard. I understand your fascination with those big American made land cruisers.....they were the cars we always wanted to own growing up. Sometimes I see one and think what a great buy, all that metal and comfort for mid $20,000 range - it is hard to pass up. I can understand giving up stability control if this is your dream car.
Like bolivar said, I don't see why Ford didn't anticipate a demand for black, after all that is where these cars really sell, limos, and funeral homes, and I guess taxis though they will have the plastic seats and will be yellow usually.
Just a suggestion but maybe you should go on line and see if there is a black one available at the right price in your area. It would just tell you if the dealer is on the level about this statement.
I think you have thought this car through very well and I hope you get what you want. And, I think they were extremely generous with your trade in - I don't think they'll get that much for it when they sell it.
Also a good question for the pros. What is the best way to dress when shopping for a car? Does the type of car you are looking for make a difference? What do you look for in potential customers as far as clothes are concerned? Does too much jewellery mean he's got money? I usually wear pants with holes, running shoes that are falling apart, torn shirt, tell them we need a new car but we'll have to give up dinners 3 times a week. (then head off to the BMW dealer)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
ROFLMAO....
You could have easily said $250- $300
GP
Also, I went to Autotrader a few minutes ago and plugged in all GM's within 300 miles of where I now live. Out of 261 GM's, only two were black. Both cars were 2008's and had above average mileage. Service industry cars? Perhaps. Based on these observations, I have to believe that the GSM was truthful. To bolivar: The dealer that I visited yesterday did have the black GM sitting on the lot. It wasn't as if he didn't have my color. BTW, the 2009's do have stabilizer control now.
As to your question posed to the pros regarding appropriate dress, we have had that lengthy discussion here before. The opinions were mixed, but most salesmen agreed that it wasn't a top priority.
Thanks for your good wishes and for understanding the mindset of the Tanker Generation.
Richard
Was that to show the salesman you had enough bread to buy the car?
BTW, how do you have a 976 credit score? The highest I've seen on any of the big 3 is 950.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well I won't speak for car service companies, but as for funeral homes people don't stop dying simply because the economy goes bad.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh... huh. Didn't realize that. The man did say he would be using a bank ... but, and I didn't think about this at the time, that does defy the whole BHPH thing, doesn't it? Weird. Is it possible he does business 2 different ways? I don't know why he would. Maybe he really isn't a BHPH, but just has that on his sign?? I dunno.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mine kicks in on a very regular basis. Do I think its necessary on those occassions? No. I attribute this to overly aggressive systems. For the life of me, for instance, I can't figure out why my G35X flashes the traction light and cuts power to the wheels when accelerating at half throttle through a turn in 2nd gear at 20 mph. This also happened all the time with both my 350Z and Honda Accord. At least with those I can understand that I may have spun the tires a tad without the TCS ... but the X? No way. I autoX this car and I know what it takes to spin the tires. I come nowhere near that on public roads, yet that light flashes at me at least once a day.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
What are "hand made Italian loavers" ?
I must say that I was surprised myself when I ordered it. I had not ordered one in two years. Scores now go up to 990. They said that I was in the 98th percentile. I had three negatives which I don't really understand. They said that my available credit limits were too low. That's BS I think. I only have two credit cards. One has available credit at $52,000 and the other one has a cap of $25,000. Why would I need or want more?
The other negative said that my balances were too high compared to their credit limits. That is also BS. I pay off my balances each month when the bills come. A final note said that there were too many inquiries on my credit report. Who is inquiring for heaven's sake? Also, with those three negatives, how can my score be 976? I've been meaning to contact them but just haven't had time. Credit reports are strange animals to read and interpret. BTW, this report was ordered from TransUnion.
Richard
On dry pavement I can chirp the tires without the TC coming on. I think I remember once under full throttle it came on as I was really hauling [non-permissible content removed]. I always thought traction control was more for wet/snow control than anything else. Don't have SC.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
BTW, I need to email you. I'll get to it.
Richard
Was that to show the salesman you had enough bread to buy the car?
lol
I thought wearing bread sticks on your feet made the salesman feel sorry for you - could be a new tactic in the jip method of buying a new car..
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Why not ask the LM dealer to order you exactly what you want from the factory? It'll take 6-8 weeks, but you'll get exactly what you want. I know what the dealer will say....."last days for employee pricing, can't predict what LM will do in the future, etc, etc." But, I'm a betting man. And, I'm betting that the new sales figures that are about to come out won't be very kind to any of the "big 3" (in a series of unkind months/quarters). What do you think LM will do? I'd say they'll extend the current promotions. But, it is a risk.
Regarding your choice in cars, I can't fault it. As I mentioned before, I came to like the Gr Marquis in the brief time it was in my stable.
q....sorry to hear about your brother's woes....especially at 40 years old. I'm also kind of surprised that the BHPH lot didn't write the paper themselves on a ride. That's what they do. I hear their pitch on TV all the time...."JOB+DOWNPAYMENT=CAR".
I also agree that stability control in today's cars are WAY TOO aggressive....particularly on RWD cars. Except.....
We had a little ice storm hit unexpectedly last week. I was driving the Accord. I will give that car credit. It's stability control has never come on....even in the rain. That is, until the ice storm I was driving in. I must have hit a black ice patch because I didn't see it, certainly felt it. I felt the steering wheel go numb and the back end start to come around. Stability control light came on. And, before I knew it, everything was "snapped back" in order. Very weird (but welcome) feeling.
I ordinarily keep the Tahoe in 2WD. But, in the rain or snow, I do switch it to "auto". Never felt any slippage at all, regardless on the conditions. It's either very good, very seamless. Or, there's so much weight planting the tires to the pavement that there's no need for it to activate.
I just happened to think about your house damage from the storm. Though it was a very bad thing, I know that you must be enjoying the new fixtures and renovations. At times, something good can come out of something bad. I hope that has been the case for you.
Richard
I think Trans Union uses a scale that goes up to 950, or so I thought. Some of the new online sites like CreditKarma have a different scale but you can convert it to what they say is a score in line with what the Big 3 reporting bureaus have. I'm not sure it is directly comparable though.
Then again, the credit bureaus give you guys a different score altogether so who's to know what any score means. :confuse:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
While we're at it let's see how many people use their wipers when it's not raining.... :P
Traction control is great in snow and not a bad thing in rain. I don't see where I;d use it otherwise.
Richard - stick with your color. There's nothing like spending that much on something and having one thing driving younuts. Instant buyers remorse.
Not counting snow or ice on the roads, how many people have actually got their auto to activate the traction or stability control?
It's like asking "How many people have actually gotten their airbags to go off"
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I did. While driving my wife's then-new Lexus, I stupidly looked away from the road & focused my attention on the car's unfamiliar & fancy sound system. When I looked up, I noticed that the road had curved to the left, putting me in danger of running off the right side of the road. So I turned the wheel to the left, but I overcorrected to the point where I was on the verge of losing control of the car.
Then the car's VSC (Vehicle Stability Control - Toyota's label for SC) kicked in, applying the brakes gently & reducing power. A dashboard light went on momentarily & then all was well. I had been saved from my idiocy. (It goes without saying that I should have parked the car before fooling around with the audio system. God was watching out for fools that day.)
That was in 1999, when VSC was a $550 option on my wife's Lexus ES 300. (She now drives an ES 350, & VSC is standard equipment on that car.) There's no question in my mind that stability control saved my bacon that day. Even if I had escaped injury, the cost of repairing the car would have been much more than $550.
Richard
Richard
The Big 3 - TransUnion, Equifax & Experian - all report scores on a 300 to 850 scale. I'm pretty sure of this, having paid for credit reports from all 3 of them just a couple of months ago.
I have heard that some car dealerships in parts of the Midwest use a proprietary regional scoring system that runs up to 1,000. Perhaps Richard's dealer subscribes to this.
The way those reports are generated, they give you the top three things that lower your score the most. If the score goes up to 990, and you are at 976, there must be something wrong to cost you those 14 points.
What they are saying is that to get to 990, you need infinite credit and you need to never use it. Even if you pay it off every month, you do on average have a balance.
No matter who you are, they list the three biggest negatives, and if you look at posts on financial boards you'll see people complaining about the same comments that you are... I know someone that their biggest negative was that their longest-term revolving credit account (credit card) was only open for 23 years...
When you understand that it is software generating the report, and it has to spit out the three biggest negatives, it makes sense...
-B
Let the man get what he wants. When somebody else is willing to make the payments, THEN they get to choose the colors. I wouldn't choose black for that car but to each his own.
I had to have them do a dealer trade 165 miles away to get the color I wanted.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That "Smokestone" comment was said in jest oldfarmer. Of course richard should get the color he wants. I wrote that he did well with walking over not getting the color he wanted. Now get your "cranky" head outta the snowbanks will ya? :P
I caught that JM..... :mad:
I don’t think so GP.
That comment was made to ‘snake’ because he’s considering moving onto a Nissan product when he's finished killing his Elantra (which by now you’d think he’d have done).
Now, if you go back and look at post 37544 you’ll see that ‘sandman’ (whose original post, way back there somewhere, prompted my response to ‘snake’) is probably going to buy a Versa for his daughter. Soooo, even when I make jest I seem to know what I’m talking about when it comes to this car stuff.
Therefore, when I say a cow is going to lay an egg it’s time to go fetch a skillet. In time you’ll learn this, just like Mrs. jmonroe.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Most just carry their own paper. Which is why they don't report.
Heck, if you'd waited a few years you could had the Lexus park itself!
Mine too. Guess I should have put one of those :P thingys in my post.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oh yeah pull me into this why don't you?
As for killing off my Elantra, I am trying but they make them so well,
Also the Versa is just one of nine on my short list.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Try one with four winter tires. I've run several RWD Bimmers so equipped and never had a problem.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
In my wife's X3? 2-3 times since we bought it in December 2005.
In my Mazdaspeed 3? Daily. Seriously.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Maybe it's the fact that they limit supply that creates the higher price? Just a thought.
Excellent phrase! Line of the week.
Apparently the t/s killed the engine when the car started rolling backwards so I had very little control. When I would try to apply the brakes I would start to slew sideways so just had to steer to a stop after about 150 to 200 yards, restart the engine and turn around. No harm done but it could have been a disaster if there had been traffic behind me.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'm a bit leary of turning over control of my car to stability control, for the very
reasons you wrote about. Seems like there would be a kill switch for the certain instances which you discribed. I'm sure the positive of s/c far outweigh the negatives though..
I agree that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I am mainly telling my tale as a public service in case anyone else finds themselves in this situation.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Wow, and what do you call a "long list"?
I don't think I have to tell you that when you're at the negotiating table, I wouldn't mention your "short list". I'd be willing to bet the biz guys here would walk you when they heard that. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I am not technologically knowledgeable but I don't think you would have done better if you didn't have traction control. The road might have been so icy that both rear wheels couldn't get traction......and probably no vehicle could have gone up the hill.
Also, keep in mind I am technologically challenged, but I don't think stability control would help too much in this situation either. The wheels have to be able to grip onto something for it to work - they can't defy physics and magically go up a sheet of ice.
You did state it was better to have TC and SC so I know this doesn't apply to you or most, but saying you would be better off without these features is like saying you are better off without seatbelts because one person in 500,000 is saved because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt...he got thrown clear.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
OK, now my tale.
Just this past summer I was driving Mrs. jmonroe’s 06’ Sonata LX (V6 with full fledged Stability Control not just Traction Control like my 05’ XG 350). I noticed that the car needed gas, so as the nice guy that I am; I pulled in and filled it up. It was raining and the exit I used was about 30 yards from the corner light which I noticed had changed just as I was pulling out. So, I floored it and it almost died (me too) because it sensed slipping on the wet road. Then as I was bracing myself it must have caught onto what I wanted it to do and the hesitation stopped and the car gained speed, just in time to avoid someone climbing up
myher tail pipe.I’ve been driving for a couple years now and I don’t like the idea of something taking control of the car I’m driving. I’ve done just fine when left to my own ability. I’ve actually thought of turning that system off under those situations but so far I’ve successfully resisted that urge.
I guess it’s hard to teach an old driver new tricks.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Here's mine, which took place while co-driving a BMW X5 in the 2000 Alcan Winter Rally. Think: Duel meets Ice Station Zebra...
It happened on a transit stage between Coldfoot and Fairbanks when my co-driver Russ decided to pass a trucker who was apparently well and truly ticked off by the hoards of rally cars buzzing south sporting 100w driving lights. As Russ pulled out to pass, the trucker crowded us onto the snow covered shoulder. Russ completed the pass and cranked the wheel hard right to get the left wheels out of the snow. The X5 got quite a bit sideways and the DSC, apparently flustered by the speed, steering angle, and yaw rate, ramped the throttle way back. As in OFF. Fortunately, the X5 decided to relinquish control to Russ before we became a hood ornament on the front grill of the annoyed trucker.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Well I would call the long list all the cars that would fit my budget.
I am not expecting to go replace my car anytime soon so I am not really working on eliminating cars to quickly. However since we have one car thats 11 years old with 140K miles on it and another thats 9 years old with 160K miles on it I am keeping my eyes open just in case. Trust me when I go into negotiations I will have a short list of one, with an alternate or two just in case.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You meant old dog... right? :P
I think stability control is over-rated, and the studies showing 58% reduction in injuries bogus. New "er" technologies like s/c cannot cover for all the variables and contingencies where activation actually becomes counter productive. Yeah, I'll take it, but I will still rely on my good driving abilities/instincts and cat like reflexes over this so called modern miracle.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460