I'll take it, (Stability & traction control) but I will still rely on my good driving abilities/instincts and cat like reflexes over this so called modern miracle
This could be accurate for the people who come to this sight and already have an interest in cars and driving. However, for the 95% of the population who just drive to get from A to B every safety device helps.
Also, 80% of the population thinks they are better than average drivers. So, many people think they are more capable than they are. Instinct and cat like reflexes are good, but there are times when even those can't overcome certain conditions and situations.
Keep in mind too, there are many people who believe they are pro-drivers. They're the ones who pass you in a snow storm, going faster than they can see ahead, and you usually go by them when they end up in the ditch. We all like to think we are in control and can do better than technology...but there are times when technology can be superior.
Then as I was bracing myself it must have caught onto what I wanted it to do and the hesitation stopped and the car gained speed, just in time to avoid someone climbing up my her tail pipe. I’ve been driving for a couple years now and I don’t like the idea of something taking control of the car I’m driving.
JM, What if your wife was driving? First, she might not have tried to get through the amber light, being a more cautious female driver (I think that's what you were speeding up to do). But does she have natural driving instinct and cat like reflexes? If she was driving along and 2 wheels went off the road onto the gravel could she handle it better than stability control.....which will take over making sure the car doesn't slide out of control? It's like the not wearing seat belts thing - every once in awhile some guy not wearing his seatbelt is saved because he is thrown from the wreck, but for every one of those about 500,000 are saved because of the seatbelt. People who don't wear seatbelts often think they can manouver better, or can get out of the car faster.....but in most cases it just throws them so far they can't do anything anyway and they usually just go flying out of the car (often into a tree) or get knocked around inside it.
Richard....thanks for the kind thoughts. While 2008 was certainly a challenge, on many different levels for me personally, the old adage prevails....what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. I've found that to be more true over the last year than at any time in my life.
Probably 60% of my home is new. I got the chance to correct some things I didn't like when I originally had it built, too. Got some new things that were needed (like a new roof that was due to be replaced, anyway). You never come out of these types of rebuilds with no "out of pocket". On the other hand, I was able to kick in some cash to upgrade what was destroyed.
Segueing into another sad story regarding the economy (and just the slightest relevance to cars), I don't live in an exclusive neighborhood. But, it's a nice neighborhood....good schools, nice homes, peaceful. No McMansions around here.
Anyway, I live in a relatively secluded area (becoming less so all the time). There's only 16 houses on my street. So, we all more or less know each other....all of us have lived here for at least a dozen years.
Around the holidays, there are plenty of people in the neighborhood who bring baked goods to each others doors (I'm not one of them, mind you. I don't bake.) during the Holiday Season. So, we usually get the chance to catch up on each others lives in the process since everyone is "around" during this time of year.
One neighbor was an EVP for a company who provides peripherals to General Electric. Very successful guy. He never buys new cars, but nice used ones. He's got a 4 year old Lexus LS (which he bought used off lease). His wife has a 5 year old Lexus RX (again, bought used off lease).
Not much work being done last week as many people were taking time off. While one neighbor was delivering Christmas cookies to my door, I noticed two tow trucks picking up both vehicles at the Lexus owner's house down the street. Thinking he had bad luck having both cars on the fritz at the same time, I went over to offer them one of my vehicles to use, if they needed it.
Come to find out, the guy was let go from his job this past June. The tow trucks were repo-ing both his cars. While I didn't want to get into the gory details with him, he kind of spilled it out. He financed both vehicles via a home equity loan. Investments went south. His employment prospects, even at his level, are very limited (he's in his late 50s). He drained his liquid savings over the past several months trying to stay afloat. He had to make a decision....lose his house, or lose his cars. He chose the latter.
The couple's daughter (surprise baby) was going to Loyola in Chicago. They've had to put a halt to her education. Loyola ain't cheap. In short, their lives have turned upside down. Everything they had saved is gone. Again, he's a smart guy. Investments he made, which he thought were good, weren't. The prospect of him losing his house is still very real.
I'm sure this isn't an uncommon scene throughout the country right now. Yet, Chrysler just cashed a $4B check from the gov't bailout, to use for what exactly, I'm not certain. Even Cerebus has said they don't know if the $4B will keep them from shutting their doors.
Yet, this guy....a good, hard working family person, is about to lose everything he's built, everything he's saved for, over many years.
Yeah, I'll take it, but I will still rely on my good driving abilities/instincts and cat like reflexes over this so called modern miracle.
No argument - but if you're shopping for a new car, don't you want the benefit of the latest safety technology? Stability control is standard equipment in all of the premium brands - AFAIK - & it's now widely available in the popular-priced brands as well. The Merc GM might be the only mid-priced car for which SC isn't available - not even as an option. By contrast, SC is standard equipment on the lower-priced Sable.
Note also that the GM lacks side curtain airbags, which are also standard equipment on the Sable. If you were in the market for a new car, wouldn't that omission affect your choice?
We keep our cars for 8 to 10 years - sometimes longer - so when we buy, we want state-of-the-art for our price range.
Maybe I missed something but if he financed the vehicles via a home equity loan, then how did they get repo'ed?
That really stinks for that to happen to him, especially at that point in his life and with one kid still in college. I too worry about that all the time as my two sons are in college, but only 2 more years and they both will be done. They say you are one down sizing away from being homeless. And seeing these bailouts, err, I mean handouts, going on is like rubbing salt in the wound.
Perhaps I was misinformed, but the GSM told me the other day that SC is standard on the LS/GM's for '09 and was an option on the '08's. I specifically asked that question.
JM, What if your wife was driving? First, she might not have tried to get through the amber light, being a more cautious female driver (I think that's what you were speeding up to do).
WRONG!!
I was not going through an “amber light”. The light was to my left and it was RED to traffic coming through the light. As I pulled out I glanced again and the light had just turned GREEN thereby allowing traffic to go through the intersection towards me. I use this gas station quite a bit and I use the exit that is furthest from the light to allow myself time to pull out. I know that people are just waiting to jump the light when it turns green for them and I pull out with enough speed to allow myself plenty of room if/when the light does turn green to allow traffic to pass through it. This time the road was wet and when I stepped on it a little bit more that’s when the glorious Stability Control took over.
I’d like to point out that Mrs. jmonroe wasn’t with me that day or I would have heard from her, but that’s why I pull out of there rather quickly, all the time, because I never know when that light is about to change and I’ve cautioned her about this.
In a way I prefer to pull out when the light allows traffic through it; that way I can see the breaks in the traffic and I know what to expect and it isn’t bad at all. Sometimes if there isn’t anyone behind me I’ll wait to do just that.
People who don't wear seatbelts often think they can manouver better, or can get out of the car faster.....
You don’t have to tell me about the importance of seat belts. I installed them in my 56’Chevy in 61’ when I saw what happen to a US Sailor (separated shoulder) when he was propelled out of his seat and thrown into the baggage rack during a cross-wind landing (on the plane that I was part of the flight crew on) that was transporting him and others to their new duty station when I was in the Navy. I told this old-salt and everyone on that flight that we were going to make a cross-wind landing because the pilot said he was going to try it otherwise we would have had to go somewhere else.
Everyone listened except this one sailor. Those guys practice cross-wind landings all the time on pilot training flights (PT’s as we used to call them) and they are damn good at it but they are still harder than normal landings. Like I said I told this sailor several times to keep his belt on but he kept taking it off when I went back to my seat to strap in (this had to happen at least twice). When I saw I didn’t have time to get up and tell him again, I stayed put but he didn’t. Tough lesson to learn and I’m sure he never did that again. That’s when I thought it would be a good idea to have seat belts in my car, installed them that weekend.
Now say you’re sorry.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Perhaps I was misinformed, but the GSM told me the other day that SC is standard on the LS/GM's for '09 and was an option on the '08's.
Well, I don't see either side-curtain air bags or stability control listed as features - standard or optional - for the GM on Mercury's own web site, which shows both as standard equipment on the Sable.
Does your GSM know something that Mercury's webmaster doesn't?
That's a terrible thing to happen to your neighbor. Another tragedy is that he was careful with his money---buying cars off lease, no McMansion, etc. Having to call his child home from Loyola is another sad moment. You're right. Loyola is expensive to attend.
It's going on all over. One of my best friends (age 62) three years from his retirement just got terminated from one of the last Hanes plants. His two year old Jag was repo'ed Christmas Eve. On top of that, his pension is no more---according to the Hanes home office. His wife lost her job last June. On Monday after Christmas, she took her SUV to Carmax and got $4,500 for it. So sad. They are driving one of his brother's cars now. They still have three years left on the mortgage. My wife and I held back tears as they related what had happened. As a textile man for 40 years, he knows nothing else. His wife was a bank manager---so much for that. He won't swallow his pride and file for unemployment. I told him not to feel guilty. He paid his taxes for 40 years. He's entitled to it. Each morning I realize how blessed I am.
History does repeat itself. In 1929 my mother was called home from her second year at Agnes Scott in Georgia. My grandfather went to the bank to pull out his savings, only to find the doors padlocked. He lost his dairy business. My grandmother took in sewing and my mother got a job at the 5&10 cent store---for those of you who may know what they were. She married my father in 1933 who also had to drop out of school. He found a job hauling produce from Florida to New York. She used to joke about how they spent their honeymoon in New York---sleeping in the truck with the oranges and grapefruit. Still, they lived through it all---and had ME. That alone was worse than the Great Depression! Our friends and neighbors will make it. There is a silver lining out there some where.
Well, I just don't know. I appreciate your looking into it. The window sticker doesn't mention it either. Seems odd that they wouldn't have it on the luxury model, doesn't it?
mikefm...I wondered the same thing...how do you get your vehicles "repo-ed" if they were financed with a home equity. In all honesty, I didn't question him. I didn't ask, nor did I want to know the gory details. He was obviously embarrassed enough having the repo guys come to his driveway.
I don't know if was mistaken in what he was telling me. Or, if there's a part of the story I just may have missed. He was pretty distraught.
I'm certain there's some details there that I'm not privy to. Moreover, I'm not sure I need to know. He's a good person (so is his wife and daughter) that bad things happened to. I've known this family for over a decade. They are all just very, very decent people. They were never ones to fall into the gossipy type of behavior that most neighbors fall into. Never heard any of them say one negative thing, about anyone, for any reason.
He's the kind of neighbor that if he was outside, seeing my son and I shoveling snow, he'd pitch in and help. If he saw me sitting on my porch, he always made a point of coming over just to say hello, and ask how my son and I were doing.
He came to my door this weekend and asked to borrow my Tahoe. He started to explain what he needed it for. I stopped him and said I needed no explanation. I gave him my spare key and told him it's there for him to use, whenever he needs it. Just park it in my driveway when he's finished, and to hold onto the key in case he needs it again. No need to ask.
. The X5 got quite a bit sideways and the DSC, apparently flustered by the speed, steering angle, and yaw rate, ramped the throttle way back. As in OFF.
Wow... sounds like this would be a great investigative story for Edmunds. i.e "Pro's and Cons of Stability Control... Stories of Life and Near Death". :surprise:
Also sounds like if you are traveling in ice, rain or snow, it would be better to turn the stability control off.
"Let's see now. You have four choices. "Loaver" is the Italian spelling for "loafer"? The letter "V" is just below the letter "F" on the keyboard."
Richard--
I think a better--and more snide--remark to isell's inquiry was that you were wearing your best pair of Focaccias, a huge "step up" from those "pedestrian" Guccis worn by Grand Merc.-owning poseurs in Seattle.
It's better to bombard those west-coasters with cliches and puns about walking and footwear.
My late father-in-law's last GM was a rather ghastly dark bluish purple. I think your black one sounds much better--kind of like the Green Hornet's Black Beauty. Now there was a land yacht!
The following was pulled from Bankrate.com's website:
"The three national credit bureaus have developed a rival to the well-known FICO credit score. The credit bureaus say their scoring model will be easier for consumers to understand and will offer more consistent scores. But it's too soon to say whether lenders will embrace it...he product, called VantageScore, is the result of a joint venture of Equifax, Experian and TransUnion, the three national credit bureaus. Representatives from the three companies say VantageScore will have an intuitive scale -- from a low of 501 (reflecting absolutely horrible credit history) to 990 (the credit equivalent of getting straight A's from kindergarten through college)."
I'm guessing that Richard's Trans Union score reflects the changes listed above. I also thought Richard would appreciate associating his credit score with getting superior grades.
but if you're shopping for a new car, don't you want the benefit of the latest safety technology
Sure, I would want all the new safty features, S/C and curtain airbags. But, I think there is a bit of misinformation on how well S/C operates. There are many well documented cases here that S/C can sometimes lead to an accident. I've never read of seat belts or air bags being a contributing cause of an accident.
Like someone wrote before, people in trucks and SUV's seem to end up in ditches more often than sedans when the weather turns inclement. They think they are invincible in snow with their monster SUV's. People who don't educate themselves on limits of these various safety factors are putting themselves and other at risk.
I gave him my spare key and told him it's there for him to use, whenever he needs it. Just park it in my driveway when he's finished, and to hold onto the key in case he needs it again. No need to ask.
That's decent of you. We'll get through these hard times if we watch out for one another.
Auto sales data for the month of December and for 2008 were reported on Monday -- with dismal results, as predicted, not just from the Big Three Detroit auto makers, but from non-U.S. car makers as well.
Dearborn Michigan-based Ford Motor was the first to report today, with December sales down 32.4% year over year. For 2008, Ford was down 21% compared with last year’s results. Ford sold 138,458 light vehicles in the U.S. last month, down from 204,787 in December 2007. For 2008, Ford sold 2 million cars, down by about 500,000 from the year prior.
At Toyota Motor results were even worse. December sales were down 37%, while sales for the full year were down 16%.
At General Motors sales were down 31% for December. For 2008, sales were down 23%.
Subaru was the bright spot reporting a gain of 0.3% for 2008 overall. However, Subaru’s sales were down 7.7% for the month of December. Subaru’s lack of losses is due in large part to its lack of overall penetration into the U.S. marketplace -- it sold fewer than 200,000 cars in the U.S. last year.
Sales at Volkswagen also took a hit of 14.4% in December and 3.2% for the year ended 200
It would not be an exageration to say I have pulled 1000's of bureaus over the years and every single one of them from the highest to the lowest have the same 4 bullett comments on them.
Proportion of balance to high credit on bank or revolving
I strongly agree. In the end, the most important safety device is located between the driver's ears.
I wish that all of my driving school students could start out in a car like my 1975 2002; no electronics whatsoever, skinny 80 Series radials, and less than 100 hp. Today's modern cars can make the most ham-fisted driver look good.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
But, I think there is a bit of misinformation on how well S/C operates. There are many well documented cases here that S/C can sometimes lead to an accident. I've never read of seat belts or air bags being a contributing cause of an accident.
My father-in-law is a retired fire & rescue chief, and although technically I would totally agree with your statement above, I can assure you that many fire & rescue workers have been injured pretty badly when airbags have gone off after an accident, as they're trying to rescue someone inside a banged up vehicle. Thankfully my F.I.L. has never been injured himself this way, but has seen airbags go off in this type of situation and he says it absolutely scares the $*&! out of you. Basically like a steering wheel mounted grenade going off while you're attempting the rescue. Scary stuff.
my problem is, but i am not about to buy snow tires for those bimmer drivers without them. i have no problem getting where i am going other than getting caught up in someone else's problem trying to get going/staying in their lane.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
You have to work at getting a score in the 300's LOL. The lowest I have ever seen was a 342 and the highest was in the low 800's.
I think credit scores are all a bunch of [non-permissible content removed] myself. Its just another way for a bank to justify squeezing a few more dollars out of you.
Don't take it personally.....I am not accusing you of driving without a seatbelt. I am just saying that we are better off having every safety device possible within our budget.....because no matter how good a driver you are....there are a lot of really bad drivers out there.
GG: That is a sad tale. I've got another one to add to it.
Before the holidays, I started to feel like I'd lost touch of some of my closest friends, so I made a point to contact them.
One of them is a good childhood friend who I hadn't spoken to in more than 6 or 7 years. He lives in Sacramento with his wife and two kids. When I called - mid afternoon on Christmas Eve - he answered the phone himself.
First words out of his mouth after our greetings was to tell me that he's been out of work for the past 14 months. He was the deputy director of a parks and recreation district and made the unfortunate mistake of violating some of the spending guidelines - nothing illegal, but somebody there had an axe to grind with him, and they used this knowledge to get him to resign.
In addition, every time he interviewed for a new job, his old supervisor was giving information out on the reference checks that prevented him from ever getting an offer. He had to bring a labor lawyer in to get the district to provide a 'neutral' reference going forward, so I'm hoping his future prospects are better.
While they still have their house, I gotta believe it's getting close for them. Last time I saw him and his bride, they had just bought a new '97 Camry ... I wonder if they still have it.
Puts things in perspective for me ... I surely hope that everybody here had a great holiday and will experience a better '09. Nobody I know is sad to see 2008 put behind them.
To keep this post on topic, I've got a question for the salesfolks here - the dealer in my town is holding their annual "equalization" sale -- what exactly is that supposed to mean? Or is it a fancy marketing term?
Don't take it personally.....I am not accusing you of driving without a seatbelt. I am just saying that we are better off having every safety device possible within our budget.....because no matter how good a driver you are....there are a lot of really bad drivers out there.
I wasn’t taking it tooo personal. I’m a firm believer in safety but I’m not fanatical about it.
As for all the bad drivers out there, I think we know how many there are when we see our insurance rates going up and we haven’t had accidents and our credit scores are in the very good to excellent range. Talk about a bunch of thieves; the insurance companies are at the top of the list and the one I have is supposed to be one of the better ones. When I’ve talked to my agent he’s said, “you’re lucky, you should see what some of my other clients are paying”. Like that’s supposed to make me feel better.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I wish that all of my driving school students could start out in a car like my 1975 2002; no electronics whatsoever, skinny 80 Series radials, and less than 100 hp.
My college ride was the definitive stripper: a late 60s Rambler American with only 2 options: cigarette lighter & AM radio. Everything else about the car screamed cheap: 3 on the tree with non-synchro 1st gear (had to learn the fine art of double clutching), drum brakes all around & absolutely no power assists for steering, brakes or anything else. Didn't even have electric windshield wipers, which were a $25 option. Instead, the wipers ran off engine vacuum. As I drove up a long hill (plentiful in upstate NY), I'd watch the wipers slow to a standstill, only to see them make up for lost time as I drove down the other side.
The car did have an undocumented safety feature. On cold nights (even more plentiful in upstate NY), the door locks would often freeze, forcing me to stay home & thus preventing accidents.
I remember my mom buying a new car after years of dad's $150 specials. A 66 Chevy Biscayne. A transmission just as you described and apparently the electric wipers and lighter were standard. The only two options - and they were options - was a heater and an AM radio. Exactly what mom wanted in a car.
The next year they picked up a 67 Pontiac Tempest wagon that someone had defaulted on. It had like 8K on it and a ding in the front. It did have an automatic. I learned to drive on that an eventually it became "my" car as the folks moved up the ladder. Had one of those overhead cam engines that weren't the best design GM ever came up with. It died at 56K and got replaced with a Buick 6 that worked much better.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
golic wrote : "At Toyota Motor results were even worse. December sales were down 37%, while sales for the full year were down 16%. "
Good post and reflective of current conditions. Shows that sales leaders suffer more in economic downturns.Logical. Hunker down salesmen, this too shall pass.
gg :great post as per usual. Human kindness always repayed ten fold. Would have expected nothing less from someone as well balanced as yourself. No arbiter of who is a good poster vs. not. Who would I be to make that judgement ? Best wishes for karma to repay you in '09.
I am thinking about selling cars and any advice would be appreciated.
We have a group of dealerships here, high end: Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and Volvo, who advertise that they are hiring and will be paying $2,500 guarantee for two months.
Now my question is should I apply with them or should I go with dealers such as Nissan, Toyota, or Honda to build up my sales skills and then get into high end.
What are the main differences between both types of dealers?
Does "no experience needed" for the high end dealerships entail something such as: lack of floor traffic, poor management, etc...
What are the main differences between the customers and manager relations in both dealers?
Sorry I know alot of questions..... :confuse:
If you want to make it easy for yourself I guess my overall question is, which is better for me, a 21 year old looking for the best opportunity.
Thanks for taking your time to answer ( assumptive sale)
The car did have an undocumented safety feature. On cold nights (even more plentiful in upstate NY), the door locks would often freeze, forcing me to stay home & thus preventing accidents.
This is also an anti-theft feature (and it's passive, too!) :P We're talking some BIG discounts, there!
Talk about a bunch of thieves; the insurance companies are at the top of the list and the one I have is supposed to be one of the better ones. When I’ve talked to my agent he’s said, “you’re lucky, you should see what some of my other clients are paying”. Like that’s supposed to make me feel better.
Were you ever in the service? If so, you should check out USAA. I have been a member for 15 years, never had problems with claim service, get low rates, auto loan rates are lower for members. Also, if I rent a car, the rental agent will ask me to take their extra profit coverage. When I decline and tell them I have USAA, the answer is always "you don't need ours, then". They know the reputation - I worked in rental for a few years when I was in college, and I can tell you who pays up and who does not. USAA was ALWAYS the top rated company.
Well, your research really does explain my report from TransUnion. Under the score of 976, it says "Grade- A". The next column is "Score and Grade Range" followed by "Where You Rank". As you say, it must be their new way of scoring. Yes, I am very pleased that they are using letter grades. We could have taught them this years ago.
I totally agree. It's just another way to make a buck. I paid $7.50 to find out that I had excellent credit. I knew that by the fact that I pay my bills on time and in full. On the other hand, what car salesman (or any salesman) is going to take my word for it?
I feel the same way about college entrance tests and teacher license tests. These poor young people, or their parents, pay hundreds of dollars to prove that they have a brain. A school transcript can show that for much less money. The NTS in Princeton has made billions over the years, not to mention deciding the fate of so many lives. It is one of the biggest rip off schemes in American economic history.
My dad had an anti-theft feature like that. It was a 61 Valiant that had starting issues. One night he was leaving work and the car wouldn't do anything. Mechanic looked at it and said a thief tried to hot wire it and couldn't start it but drained the battery....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Just FYI, there is a forum that caters to your questions. Perhaps a host can post a link.
In response to your question, I would suggest trying to go high-end. If that doesn't work, find a volume store and work on your sales game. Practice makes perfect and you have a lot more practice at high volume stores.
There are negatives that go along with volume, but your main focus should be finding a dealership that has relatively low turnover and gives you a good 'feeling' when you in. Picking a good dealership is more important than picking a good product.
Many high line stores may not hire greenpeas. Low line stores will typically send you to training for a week to get you acclimated.
Put simply, high line stores are typically your best option. Good products, qualified clients with less hours.
Comments
This could be accurate for the people who come to this sight and already have an interest in cars and driving. However, for the 95% of the population who just drive to get from A to B every safety device helps.
Also, 80% of the population thinks they are better than average drivers. So, many people think they are more capable than they are. Instinct and cat like reflexes are good, but there are times when even those can't overcome certain conditions and situations.
Keep in mind too, there are many people who believe they are pro-drivers. They're the ones who pass you in a snow storm, going faster than they can see ahead, and you usually go by them when they end up in the ditch. We all like to think we are in control and can do better than technology...but there are times when technology can be superior.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I’ve been driving for a couple years now and I don’t like the idea of something taking control of the car I’m driving.
JM, What if your wife was driving? First, she might not have tried to get through the amber light, being a more cautious female driver (I think that's what you were speeding up to do). But does she have natural driving instinct and cat like reflexes? If she was driving along and 2 wheels went off the road onto the gravel could she handle it better than stability control.....which will take over making sure the car doesn't slide out of control? It's like the not wearing seat belts thing - every once in awhile some guy not wearing his seatbelt is saved because he is thrown from the wreck, but for every one of those about 500,000 are saved because of the seatbelt. People who don't wear seatbelts often think they can manouver better, or can get out of the car faster.....but in most cases it just throws them so far they can't do anything anyway and they usually just go flying out of the car (often into a tree) or get knocked around inside it.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Probably 60% of my home is new. I got the chance to correct some things I didn't like when I originally had it built, too. Got some new things that were needed (like a new roof that was due to be replaced, anyway). You never come out of these types of rebuilds with no "out of pocket". On the other hand, I was able to kick in some cash to upgrade what was destroyed.
Segueing into another sad story regarding the economy (and just the slightest relevance to cars), I don't live in an exclusive neighborhood. But, it's a nice neighborhood....good schools, nice homes, peaceful. No McMansions around here.
Anyway, I live in a relatively secluded area (becoming less so all the time). There's only 16 houses on my street. So, we all more or less know each other....all of us have lived here for at least a dozen years.
Around the holidays, there are plenty of people in the neighborhood who bring baked goods to each others doors (I'm not one of them, mind you. I don't bake.) during the Holiday Season. So, we usually get the chance to catch up on each others lives in the process since everyone is "around" during this time of year.
One neighbor was an EVP for a company who provides peripherals to General Electric. Very successful guy. He never buys new cars, but nice used ones. He's got a 4 year old Lexus LS (which he bought used off lease). His wife has a 5 year old Lexus RX (again, bought used off lease).
Not much work being done last week as many people were taking time off. While one neighbor was delivering Christmas cookies to my door, I noticed two tow trucks picking up both vehicles at the Lexus owner's house down the street. Thinking he had bad luck having both cars on the fritz at the same time, I went over to offer them one of my vehicles to use, if they needed it.
Come to find out, the guy was let go from his job this past June. The tow trucks were repo-ing both his cars. While I didn't want to get into the gory details with him, he kind of spilled it out. He financed both vehicles via a home equity loan. Investments went south. His employment prospects, even at his level, are very limited (he's in his late 50s). He drained his liquid savings over the past several months trying to stay afloat. He had to make a decision....lose his house, or lose his cars. He chose the latter.
The couple's daughter (surprise baby) was going to Loyola in Chicago. They've had to put a halt to her education. Loyola ain't cheap. In short, their lives have turned upside down. Everything they had saved is gone. Again, he's a smart guy. Investments he made, which he thought were good, weren't. The prospect of him losing his house is still very real.
I'm sure this isn't an uncommon scene throughout the country right now. Yet, Chrysler just cashed a $4B check from the gov't bailout, to use for what exactly, I'm not certain. Even Cerebus has said they don't know if the $4B will keep them from shutting their doors.
Yet, this guy....a good, hard working family person, is about to lose everything he's built, everything he's saved for, over many years.
No argument - but if you're shopping for a new car, don't you want the benefit of the latest safety technology? Stability control is standard equipment in all of the premium brands - AFAIK - & it's now widely available in the popular-priced brands as well. The Merc GM might be the only mid-priced car for which SC isn't available - not even as an option. By contrast, SC is standard equipment on the lower-priced Sable.
Note also that the GM lacks side curtain airbags, which are also standard equipment on the Sable. If you were in the market for a new car, wouldn't that omission affect your choice?
We keep our cars for 8 to 10 years - sometimes longer - so when we buy, we want state-of-the-art for our price range.
Maybe I missed something but if he financed the vehicles via a home equity loan, then how did they get repo'ed?
That really stinks for that to happen to him, especially at that point in his life and with one kid still in college. I too worry about that all the time as my two sons are in college, but only 2 more years and they both will be done. They say you are one down sizing away from being homeless. And seeing these bailouts, err, I mean handouts, going on is like rubbing salt in the wound.
Richard
WRONG!!
I was not going through an “amber light”. The light was to my left and it was RED to traffic coming through the light. As I pulled out I glanced again and the light had just turned GREEN thereby allowing traffic to go through the intersection towards me. I use this gas station quite a bit and I use the exit that is furthest from the light to allow myself time to pull out. I know that people are just waiting to jump the light when it turns green for them and I pull out with enough speed to allow myself plenty of room if/when the light does turn green to allow traffic to pass through it. This time the road was wet and when I stepped on it a little bit more that’s when the glorious Stability Control took over.
I’d like to point out that Mrs. jmonroe wasn’t with me that day or I would have heard from her, but that’s why I pull out of there rather quickly, all the time, because I never know when that light is about to change and I’ve cautioned her about this.
In a way I prefer to pull out when the light allows traffic through it; that way I can see the breaks in the traffic and I know what to expect and it isn’t bad at all. Sometimes if there isn’t anyone behind me I’ll wait to do just that.
People who don't wear seatbelts often think they can manouver better, or can get out of the car faster.....
You don’t have to tell me about the importance of seat belts. I installed them in my 56’Chevy in 61’ when I saw what happen to a US Sailor (separated shoulder) when he was propelled out of his seat and thrown into the baggage rack during a cross-wind landing (on the plane that I was part of the flight crew on) that was transporting him and others to their new duty station when I was in the Navy. I told this old-salt and everyone on that flight that we were going to make a cross-wind landing because the pilot said he was going to try it otherwise we would have had to go somewhere else.
Everyone listened except this one sailor. Those guys practice cross-wind landings all the time on pilot training flights (PT’s as we used to call them) and they are damn good at it but they are still harder than normal landings. Like I said I told this sailor several times to keep his belt on but he kept taking it off when I went back to my seat to strap in (this had to happen at least twice). When I saw I didn’t have time to get up and tell him again, I stayed put but he didn’t. Tough lesson to learn and I’m sure he never did that again. That’s when I thought it would be a good idea to have seat belts in my car, installed them that weekend.
Now say you’re sorry.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well, I don't see either side-curtain air bags or stability control listed as features - standard or optional - for the GM on Mercury's own web site, which shows both as standard equipment on the Sable.
Does your GSM know something that Mercury's webmaster doesn't?
It's going on all over. One of my best friends (age 62) three years from his retirement just got terminated from one of the last Hanes plants. His two year old Jag was repo'ed Christmas Eve. On top of that, his pension is no more---according to the Hanes home office. His wife lost her job last June. On Monday after Christmas, she took her SUV to Carmax and got $4,500 for it. So sad. They are driving one of his brother's cars now. They still have three years left on the mortgage. My wife and I held back tears as they related what had happened. As a textile man for 40 years, he knows nothing else. His wife was a bank manager---so much for that. He won't swallow his pride and file for unemployment. I told him not to feel guilty. He paid his taxes for 40 years. He's entitled to it. Each morning I realize how blessed I am.
History does repeat itself. In 1929 my mother was called home from her second year at Agnes Scott in Georgia. My grandfather went to the bank to pull out his savings, only to find the doors padlocked. He lost his dairy business. My grandmother took in sewing and my mother got a job at the 5&10 cent store---for those of you who may know what they were. She married my father in 1933 who also had to drop out of school. He found a job hauling produce from Florida to New York. She used to joke about how they spent their honeymoon in New York---sleeping in the truck with the oranges and grapefruit. Still, they lived through it all---and had ME. That alone was worse than the Great Depression! Our friends and neighbors will make it. There is a silver lining out there some where.
Richard
Richard
Richard
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I don't know if was mistaken in what he was telling me. Or, if there's a part of the story I just may have missed. He was pretty distraught.
I'm certain there's some details there that I'm not privy to. Moreover, I'm not sure I need to know. He's a good person (so is his wife and daughter) that bad things happened to. I've known this family for over a decade. They are all just very, very decent people. They were never ones to fall into the gossipy type of behavior that most neighbors fall into. Never heard any of them say one negative thing, about anyone, for any reason.
He's the kind of neighbor that if he was outside, seeing my son and I shoveling snow, he'd pitch in and help. If he saw me sitting on my porch, he always made a point of coming over just to say hello, and ask how my son and I were doing.
He came to my door this weekend and asked to borrow my Tahoe. He started to explain what he needed it for. I stopped him and said I needed no explanation. I gave him my spare key and told him it's there for him to use, whenever he needs it. Just park it in my driveway when he's finished, and to hold onto the key in case he needs it again. No need to ask.
Wow... sounds like this would be a great investigative story for Edmunds. i.e "Pro's and Cons of Stability Control... Stories of Life and Near Death". :surprise:
Also sounds like if you are traveling in ice, rain or snow, it would be better to turn the stability control off.
Richard--
I think a better--and more snide--remark to isell's inquiry was that you were wearing your best pair of Focaccias, a huge "step up" from those "pedestrian" Guccis worn by Grand Merc.-owning poseurs in Seattle.
It's better to bombard those west-coasters with cliches and puns about walking and footwear.
My late father-in-law's last GM was a rather ghastly dark bluish purple. I think your black one sounds much better--kind of like the Green Hornet's Black Beauty. Now there was a land yacht!
Gogiboy
The following was pulled from Bankrate.com's website:
"The three national credit bureaus have developed a rival to the well-known FICO credit score. The credit bureaus say their scoring model will be easier for consumers to understand and will offer more consistent scores. But it's too soon to say whether lenders will embrace it...he product, called VantageScore, is the result of a joint venture of Equifax, Experian and TransUnion, the three national credit bureaus. Representatives from the three companies say VantageScore will have an intuitive scale -- from a low of 501 (reflecting absolutely horrible credit history) to 990 (the credit equivalent of getting straight A's from kindergarten through college)."
I'm guessing that Richard's Trans Union score reflects the changes listed above. I also thought Richard would appreciate associating his credit score with getting superior grades.
Gogiboy
Sure, I would want all the new safty features, S/C and curtain airbags. But, I think there is a bit of misinformation on how well S/C operates. There are many well documented cases here that S/C can sometimes lead to an accident. I've never read of seat belts or air bags being a contributing cause of an accident.
Like someone wrote before, people in trucks and SUV's seem to end up in ditches more often than sedans when the weather turns inclement. They think they are invincible in snow with their monster SUV's. People who don't educate themselves on limits of these various safety factors are putting themselves and other at risk.
That's decent of you. We'll get through these hard times if we watch out for one another.
FOXBusiness
Auto sales data for the month of December and for 2008 were reported on Monday -- with dismal results, as predicted, not just from the Big Three Detroit auto makers, but from non-U.S. car makers as well.
Dearborn Michigan-based Ford Motor was the first to report today, with December sales down 32.4% year over year. For 2008, Ford was down 21% compared with last year’s results. Ford sold 138,458 light vehicles in the U.S. last month, down from 204,787 in December 2007. For 2008, Ford sold 2 million cars, down by about 500,000 from the year prior.
At Toyota Motor results were even worse. December sales were down 37%, while sales for the full year were down 16%.
At General Motors sales were down 31% for December. For 2008, sales were down 23%.
Subaru was the bright spot reporting a gain of 0.3% for 2008 overall. However, Subaru’s sales were down 7.7% for the month of December. Subaru’s lack of losses is due in large part to its lack of overall penetration into the U.S. marketplace -- it sold fewer than 200,000 cars in the U.S. last year.
Sales at Volkswagen also took a hit of 14.4% in December and 3.2% for the year ended 200
I strongly agree. In the end, the most important safety device is located between the driver's ears.
Proportion of balance to high credit on bank or revolving
Length of time accounts have been established
Amount owed on revolving accounts to high
To many accounts with balances.
That means there may not be as many people buying cars right now but of those who are more of them are buying Fords.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I wish that all of my driving school students could start out in a car like my 1975 2002; no electronics whatsoever, skinny 80 Series radials, and less than 100 hp. Today's modern cars can make the most ham-fisted driver look good.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I wonder if Equifax scoring in the US and Canada is measured the same.
The lowest I've seen here was a 399 score, the highest, a high 700.
Most sub prime apps we get are in the low 500 range.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
My father-in-law is a retired fire & rescue chief, and although technically I would totally agree with your statement above, I can assure you that many fire & rescue workers have been injured pretty badly when airbags have gone off after an accident, as they're trying to rescue someone inside a banged up vehicle. Thankfully my F.I.L. has never been injured himself this way, but has seen airbags go off in this type of situation and he says it absolutely scares the $*&! out of you. Basically like a steering wheel mounted grenade going off while you're attempting the rescue. Scary stuff.
i have no problem getting where i am going other than getting caught up in someone else's problem trying to get going/staying in their lane.
You have to work at getting a score in the 300's LOL. The lowest I have ever seen was a 342 and the highest was in the low 800's.
I think credit scores are all a bunch of [non-permissible content removed] myself. Its just another way for a bank to justify squeezing a few more dollars out of you.
Sorry :P
Don't take it personally.....I am not accusing you of driving without a seatbelt. I am just saying that we are better off having every safety device possible within our budget.....because no matter how good a driver you are....there are a lot of really bad drivers out there.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Before the holidays, I started to feel like I'd lost touch of some of my closest friends, so I made a point to contact them.
One of them is a good childhood friend who I hadn't spoken to in more than 6 or 7 years. He lives in Sacramento with his wife and two kids. When I called - mid afternoon on Christmas Eve - he answered the phone himself.
First words out of his mouth after our greetings was to tell me that he's been out of work for the past 14 months. He was the deputy director of a parks and recreation district and made the unfortunate mistake of violating some of the spending guidelines - nothing illegal, but somebody there had an axe to grind with him, and they used this knowledge to get him to resign.
In addition, every time he interviewed for a new job, his old supervisor was giving information out on the reference checks that prevented him from ever getting an offer. He had to bring a labor lawyer in to get the district to provide a 'neutral' reference going forward, so I'm hoping his future prospects are better.
While they still have their house, I gotta believe it's getting close for them. Last time I saw him and his bride, they had just bought a new '97 Camry ... I wonder if they still have it.
Puts things in perspective for me ... I surely hope that everybody here had a great holiday and will experience a better '09. Nobody I know is sad to see 2008 put behind them.
To keep this post on topic, I've got a question for the salesfolks here - the dealer in my town is holding their annual "equalization" sale -- what exactly is that supposed to mean? Or is it a fancy marketing term?
I wasn’t taking it tooo personal.
As for all the bad drivers out there, I think we know how many there are when we see our insurance rates going up and we haven’t had accidents and our credit scores are in the very good to excellent range. Talk about a bunch of thieves; the insurance companies are at the top of the list and the one I have is supposed to be one of the better ones. When I’ve talked to my agent he’s said, “you’re lucky, you should see what some of my other clients are paying”. Like that’s supposed to make me feel better.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My bad
Went back and re read it..... Everyone once in a while I expect some abuse from ya
That would be one heck of a omelette.... :P
GP
We are having the same thing here also. Market share is up but gross profit is down
We are having more ups come through the door. This is how it has been through this whole economic crisis...
GP
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My college ride was the definitive stripper: a late 60s Rambler American with only 2 options: cigarette lighter & AM radio. Everything else about the car screamed cheap: 3 on the tree with non-synchro 1st gear (had to learn the fine art of double clutching), drum brakes all around & absolutely no power assists for steering, brakes or anything else. Didn't even have electric windshield wipers, which were a $25 option. Instead, the wipers ran off engine vacuum. As I drove up a long hill (plentiful in upstate NY), I'd watch the wipers slow to a standstill, only to see them make up for lost time as I drove down the other side.
The car did have an undocumented safety feature. On cold nights (even more plentiful in upstate NY), the door locks would often freeze, forcing me to stay home & thus preventing accidents.
I remember my mom buying a new car after years of dad's $150 specials. A 66 Chevy Biscayne. A transmission just as you described and apparently the electric wipers and lighter were standard. The only two options - and they were options - was a heater and an AM radio. Exactly what mom wanted in a car.
The next year they picked up a 67 Pontiac Tempest wagon that someone had defaulted on. It had like 8K on it and a ding in the front. It did have an automatic. I learned to drive on that an eventually it became "my" car as the folks moved up the ladder. Had one of those overhead cam engines that weren't the best design GM ever came up with. It died at 56K and got replaced with a Buick 6 that worked much better.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
"At Toyota Motor results were even worse. December sales were down 37%, while sales for the full year were down 16%. "
Good post and reflective of current conditions.
Shows that sales leaders suffer more in economic downturns.Logical. Hunker down salesmen, this too shall pass.
gg :great post as per usual. Human kindness always repayed ten fold. Would have expected nothing less from someone as well balanced as yourself. No arbiter of who is a good poster vs. not. Who would I be to make that judgement ?
Best wishes for karma to repay you in '09.
I am thinking about selling cars and any advice would be appreciated.
We have a group of dealerships here, high end: Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and Volvo, who advertise that they are hiring and will be paying $2,500 guarantee for two months.
Now my question is should I apply with them or should I go with dealers such as Nissan, Toyota, or Honda to build up my sales skills and then get into high end.
What are the main differences between both types of dealers?
Does "no experience needed" for the high end dealerships entail something such as: lack of floor traffic, poor management, etc...
What are the main differences between the customers and manager relations in both dealers?
Sorry I know alot of questions..... :confuse:
If you want to make it easy for yourself I guess my overall question is, which is better for me, a 21 year old looking for the best opportunity.
Thanks for taking your time to answer ( assumptive sale)
Jonanong
This is also an anti-theft feature (and it's passive, too!) :P We're talking some BIG discounts, there!
Were you ever in the service? If so, you should check out USAA. I have been a member for 15 years, never had problems with claim service, get low rates, auto loan rates are lower for members. Also, if I rent a car, the rental agent will ask me to take their extra
profitcoverage. When I decline and tell them I have USAA, the answer is always "you don't need ours, then". They know the reputation - I worked in rental for a few years when I was in college, and I can tell you who pays up and who does not. USAA was ALWAYS the top rated company.Just my two cents...
Richard
Richard
I totally agree. It's just another way to make a buck. I paid $7.50 to find out that I had excellent credit. I knew that by the fact that I pay my bills on time and in full. On the other hand, what car salesman (or any salesman) is going to take my word for it?
I feel the same way about college entrance tests and teacher license tests. These poor young people, or their parents, pay hundreds of dollars to prove that they have a brain. A school transcript can show that for much less money. The NTS in Princeton has made billions over the years, not to mention deciding the fate of so many lives. It is one of the biggest rip off schemes in American economic history.
Richard
In response to your question, I would suggest trying to go high-end. If that doesn't work, find a volume store and work on your sales game. Practice makes perfect and you have a lot more practice at high volume stores.
There are negatives that go along with volume, but your main focus should be finding a dealership that has relatively low turnover and gives you a good 'feeling' when you in. Picking a good dealership is more important than picking a good product.
Many high line stores may not hire greenpeas. Low line stores will typically send you to training for a week to get you acclimated.
Put simply, high line stores are typically your best option. Good products, qualified clients with less hours.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
The do take enlisted now but former service doesn't count.
A former Buck Sergeant..I know.