Guys, I have a new 2008 car with out the child safety locks on the rear doors - I thought all 4 doors had this feature? I see that the 09 version of my car does indeed have this feature.
Hey 'murph', did you see post 37763 ? He ain't kidding, you WILL report back to him or ELSE.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I was only considering the LS. It has all of the bells. The GS is a step down. The dealer called again today but just couldn't (wouldn't) come down on the black clearcoat.
You know I was thinking.....years ago Henry Ford said you could have any color you want, as long as it's black. Now if you want actual black, you gotta pay for it. Geesh...no wonder the car business is in the state it's in. Wait until I find out who's leaving off the kid's safety locks....and has the nerve to leave the holes there. :mad:
German trains do the clickly clack, just not nearly as much. Most of their tracks use a longer rail so joints are much further apart, but they are there just the same. Its the joints that cause that sound.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Bingo, snake. It's called "ribbon" rail and is about a quarter mile in length between joints. There's plenty of it on US railroads too. Any "clickety clack" track is very old school and would be found on deteriorated rail lines of lesser importance.
Not exactly. If we are talking "bonus" depreciation for 2008 only NEW assets qualify for this special 50% write-off. So it is one of the few advantages a new Ford Focus has over a Benz
Speaking of Ford - has anyone driven a Flex? Thinking of getting a Flex, but man it looks more functional than curb appeal.
What a nice bunch of guys! I appreciate all of those posts on the GM/LS saga. Allow me to respond briefly and then tell more news.
To:jipster "....room for only so many misers."
I thought that you knew. I must hide it well. I'm as bad as jmonroe, snake, and the others.
To: Isell "Black is a horrible color." That's what I like about you. You never pull punches. You mentioned your colorless preference a few months ago. Still, try to understand. In my psychology classes I used to teach a unit on color ramification. Color has much to do with personalities and emotions. Red makes you hungry; pink calms you down; blue helps you sleep; etc. Black is a power color. It denotes power, authority, control, sophistication, and class. Think about the cars of our world leaders...even the SUV's. Personally, I was after the sophistication and class. My wife also likes the color. We had a black car once. It does take more cosmetic care---and a garage. I see your point on that end.
To: Percussionist "If black is what you want, get black." Thanks for that vote. Seniors should have what they want.
To: Driver "...painted his pick up with a roller." I love that!
To: Transdriver "...funeral parlor bit is a bunch of baloney..."
I totally agree. See more below. Thanks so much for your help. You should be a research analyst. You can really find the cars. I'll reply to your email on carspace later this evening.
To: GG "I'm not convinced that any dealer..."
I have since learned that your suspicions are well founded. See below.
To: jmonroe "...think that Richard has hot pants for this car..."
Yes, I believe that he does. What he doesn't know is that I am as much a tightass as you. Also, I have walked before. I still remember how to do that dance number.
To: Isell ",,,because he knows who the shopper is!"
My advice to the dealer is not to keep it from another dealer. I may have fallen off of the turnip truck as a boy, but I have never fallen off of the cabbage truck. I think that he found this out this afternoon.
Now for the update: (1) I have a neighbor down the street who has a GM/LS. I decided to call and chat a bit. Some of his first words included, "Stay away from that Ford place." (2) I have a good friend at one of the larger banks here. I decided to make another call to chat. Her advice? "Why not try another dealer near by?" She was as diplomatic as she could be, without blasting the dealer. (3) I have had one bad experience with the Toyota place here---as you regulars will remember. Being a big retirement area here, I have to wonder if SOME of these dealers are not taking advantage of retirees. Remember how the reflexes and the thought processes slow down as we age? (4) I decided to throw this "black color" routine back to the dealer. I mentioned that one of my Edmunds buddies had found several black GM's in the tri-state area at the usual prices. He said, "Let me think about it and get back to you." I said, "Better yet, let me get back with YOU." I was nice about it, but I'm just not interested in dealing with this particular place. Well, that's where I am. I appreciate all of the great advice...color, SC, airbags, other locations, etc. As one of the Hosts said, why not take my time and be sure that I like what I get. Good advice.
Richard, Your item number 1 and 2 might be the best advice you've received yet. Local information is the best. Number 3 was the one I was worried about but didn't verbalize it. I doubt most of the retirees in your area are as internet savvy as you and don't have Edmunds buddies looking out for them either. Your local dealers are surely bright enough to know the demographics and how the locals approach car buying, which is not conducive to getting super deals.
Richard - good work all around. I think you really hit the nail on the head with retirement area +senior citizen+ GM = baby seal. It'll be nice when this guy ends up with an 08 that he's trying to sell in 10....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
That film clip was interesting. Considering that the GM doesn't have SC, it did really well the two times that it ran off of the road. Then again, I'm sure that a professional driver was behind the wheel.
I watched it and it was amusing. Not too impressed with the guys driving ability especially around the 5 minute mark. He was passed by a number of cars that didn't seem to wonder all over the road as much as he did. At 5:16 the people in the car behind are saying he had trouble climbing the hill. He was passed by what looked like an older white BMW that wasn't drifting all over the road.
It was fun but the car behaved as most cars would...not real gravel, not a big curb etc. I wouldn't buy one based on what I saw.
i guess you missed one of my points, the camaro behind the GM never was able to pass it. it pretty much looked like a stock GM with 4 occupants, so i am thinking stock tires and brakes. you don't think they would give up after a few minutes? even without SC, i didn't see the handling get ugly because it is a good basic platform.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Yes there is that provision of the ESA, however it is only for assets purchased and put into service in 2008. Now and looking forward there is no advantage unless clowngress congress extends it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
the camaro behind the GM never was able to pass it.
A few observations; The Camaro has an ugly dash IMO the Camaro was recording the action so didn't want to pass I don't think the GM driver was a professional. He's a good old boy, a professional wouldn't risk the lives of 3 other people. Also, wouldn't drive with finger out the window. At 3:24 he almost lost it At 4:15 the car is extremely tilted, other cars do the same turn and they stay level, including the Camaro At 4:24 a car passes on the curve, stays level, and has no drifting. The guys in the Camaro did a great job of recording, staying with the GM, they didn't do any tilting or drifting that I could see. Also, the stability control isn't that necessary for that bit of sand next to the track. Gravel can really slow down any wheel caught in it, while the other wheels are moving at full speed...that's when Stability Control really kicks in. If you could find a video of a BMW on the same course or even more difficult course it would ride level on the corners, it would not be rolling on it's side, it could go faster, it wouldn't do those choppy corners. But, it was fun to watch!
If ABS, TC, SC are available, and you can afford it (and I say that because I have had many years when I could barely afford a new car or extra options at all) then I think it makes NO logical sense, not to have them.
The video is like another that was put out a couple of years ago to try to make a particular brand or vehicle look better than the established competitors.
First, the over-the-hill stopping doesn't show how much increase in stopping distance occurred with the ABS engaged. The verbal claim of the narrator was that the control would be increased and he didn't mention anything about stopping distance.
The icy slope shows why you don't gun the motor to spin the tires faster to hope for more traction: you just heat up the tire and the contact point, generating slicker ice and water mixture due to the heat. Instead you gently feather the pedal or clutch. I note they never showed starting the car from dead stop in the middle of the icy slope with the TC, they back up and show a slow run onto the ice.
As for the snow, the driver over steers to throw the car into a skid more drastic than it needed to be with the expected, hoped for result. However driving more carefully might have avoided the skid completely. The SC attempts to keep the car going straight or turning slightly; if you're going off the road, you'll hit whatever's in front of you. SC cannot repeal the laws of physics and over driving the vehicle.
The discussion seems to have wandered from Sales Stories. Anyone selling anything to interesting buyers or shoppers?
The discussion seems to have wandered from Sales Stories.
No it hasn't, we are trying to help Richard buy a car
However driving more carefully might have avoided the skid completely.
theres always be the person that will say, "duh, what I need dat fer, I am a grate driver, and nothings going to help me, cuz I am super driver and never make uh mistake or misjudge". And who has never been in an accident or had absolutely no traffic tickets?
I have them and I am glad that they are there. When ABS became mainstream, there was a lot of talk that ABS actually lengthens stopping distances and that with proper brake modulation one could achieve shorter stops. While true, the problem was that when one is in a panic situation they have a tendency to hammer the brakes. Without ABS they would lock the wheels and skid, with ABS they would have a controlled stop.
The same is true for TC, if you don't gun the engine and maintain an acceleration within the adhesion level of the tires, the TC will not kick in. So if someone has had an issue with TC leaving them not moving because the TC was engaged, what would the vehicle have been doing if there was no TC?
To me all the safety systems are there to help keep a car doing what we want, but they cannot perform miracles if we get our car completely out of control.
>driver, i don't think you understand that some of us grew up without all the eletronic helpers and we are have no fear driving a car without them.
RightO!
My first car had:
1. No power steering 2. Steering was not aligned 3. Wheel Balancing? Never heard of it then. 4. Firewall? Sure. The wall that was scorching hot and called the firewall. Could not keep your feet there after 2 hours of driving. Needed to cool off.
Still enjoyed it thoroughly. Never had an accident. Car had decent speed of up to 65mph.
The good news is Richard is now going to another dealer where he can use that advice.
On color I always think that while I tend not to be fixated on one particular color I won't buy a car in a color I don't like no matter how good the deal is. I'm the same way about an option that I either must have or don't want. I don't want anything where I'm going to have to look at it and say "I paid all that money and it....."
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
You seem to be a pretty level headed guy. Any business that involves selling products/services follow the steps/phases you mentioned i.e. " find prospects, sell, retain, repeat with the inclusion of repeat and referrals."
Revenue in my field are down 30%. Sales is the same, due to the discounts that lead to the loss of revenue.
Comments
Exactly.......that's what I was thinking of (thanks tidester)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Since I am in charge of safety features around here I want to know what kind of cars left out the child safety locks.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Hey 'murph', did you see post 37763 ? He ain't kidding, you WILL report back to him or ELSE.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
or make the restaurant the place to meet to close the deal :shades:
The guy who installs the little switch must have been laid off? or was on beer break? or playing poker with the buddies in the job bank room?
You know I was thinking.....years ago Henry Ford said you could have any color you want, as long as it's black. Now if you want actual black, you gotta pay for it.
Geesh...no wonder the car business is in the state it's in. Wait until I find out who's leaving off the kid's safety locks....and has the nerve to leave the holes there. :mad:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The tax write off is based on the fair market value of the vehicle. A $25K new Ford gets the same tax treatment as a 5 year old Benz valued at $25K.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Speaking of Ford - has anyone driven a Flex? Thinking of getting a Flex, but man it looks more functional than curb appeal.
To:jipster "....room for only so many misers."
I thought that you knew. I must hide it well. I'm as bad as jmonroe, snake, and the others.
To: Isell "Black is a horrible color." That's what I like about you. You never pull punches. You mentioned your colorless preference a few months ago. Still, try to understand. In my psychology classes I used to teach a unit on color ramification. Color has much to do with personalities and emotions. Red makes you hungry; pink calms you down; blue helps you sleep; etc. Black is a power color. It denotes power, authority, control, sophistication, and class. Think about the cars of our world leaders...even the SUV's. Personally, I was after the sophistication and class. My wife also likes the color. We had a black car once. It does take more cosmetic care---and a garage. I see your point on that end.
To: Percussionist "If black is what you want, get black." Thanks for that vote. Seniors should have what they want.
To: Driver "...painted his pick up with a roller." I love that!
To: Transdriver "...funeral parlor bit is a bunch of baloney..."
I totally agree. See more below. Thanks so much for your help. You should be a research analyst. You can really find the cars. I'll reply to your email on carspace later this evening.
To: GG "I'm not convinced that any dealer..."
I have since learned that your suspicions are well founded. See below.
To: jmonroe "...think that Richard has hot pants for this car..."
Yes, I believe that he does. What he doesn't know is that I am as much a tightass as you. Also, I have walked before. I still remember how to do that dance number.
To: Isell ",,,because he knows who the shopper is!"
My advice to the dealer is not to keep it from another dealer. I may have fallen off of the turnip truck as a boy, but I have never fallen off of the cabbage truck. I think that he found this out this afternoon.
Now for the update: (1) I have a neighbor down the street who has a GM/LS. I decided to call and chat a bit. Some of his first words included, "Stay away from that Ford place." (2) I have a good friend at one of the larger banks here. I decided to make another call to chat. Her advice? "Why not try another dealer near by?" She was as diplomatic as she could be, without blasting the dealer. (3) I have had one bad experience with the Toyota place here---as you regulars will remember. Being a big retirement area here, I have to wonder if SOME of these dealers are not taking advantage of retirees. Remember how the reflexes and the thought processes slow down as we age? (4) I decided to throw this "black color" routine back to the dealer. I mentioned that one of my Edmunds buddies had found several black GM's in the tri-state area at the usual prices. He said, "Let me think about it and get back to you." I said, "Better yet, let me get back with YOU." I was nice about it, but I'm just not interested in dealing with this particular place. Well, that's where I am. I appreciate all of the great advice...color, SC, airbags, other locations, etc. As one of the Hosts said, why not take my time and be sure that I like what I get. Good advice.
Richard
Your item number 1 and 2 might be the best advice you've received yet. Local information is the best. Number 3 was the one I was worried about but didn't verbalize it. I doubt most of the retirees in your area are as internet savvy as you and don't have Edmunds buddies looking out for them either. Your local dealers are surely bright enough to know the demographics and how the locals approach car buying, which is not conducive to getting super deals.
Loved your comments and following your journey through the car maze...I feel like I was imbedded in your pursuit of the perfect dream car.
I enjoyed your color analysis too. Maybe we should all drive pink cars to calm us down...maybe fewer accidents (there I go about safety again).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GM on track
notice there are 4 people in the GM.
Richard
Richard
Richard
I watched it and it was amusing. Not too impressed with the guys driving ability especially around the 5 minute mark. He was passed by a number of cars that didn't seem to wonder all over the road as much as he did. At 5:16 the people in the car behind are saying he had trouble climbing the hill. He was passed by what looked like an older white BMW that wasn't drifting all over the road.
It was fun but the car behaved as most cars would...not real gravel, not a big curb etc. I wouldn't buy one based on what I saw.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
it pretty much looked like a stock GM with 4 occupants, so i am thinking stock tires and brakes. you don't think they would give up after a few minutes?
even without SC, i didn't see the handling get ugly because it is a good basic platform.
clowngresscongress extends it.2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I must say that I heard nothing of the sort on my train travels across Bavaria. They use welding to eliminate the gaps.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
option to take them corners like that fully loaded!
Were you there to pick up a new bimmer? :confuse:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
But I need to know what kind of car doesn't have safety locks...enquiring minds want to know
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A few observations;
The Camaro has an ugly dash
IMO the Camaro was recording the action so didn't want to pass
I don't think the GM driver was a professional. He's a good old boy, a professional wouldn't risk the lives of 3 other people. Also, wouldn't drive with finger out the window.
At 3:24 he almost lost it
At 4:15 the car is extremely tilted, other cars do the same turn and they stay level, including the Camaro
At 4:24 a car passes on the curve, stays level, and has no drifting.
The guys in the Camaro did a great job of recording, staying with the GM, they didn't do any tilting or drifting that I could see.
Also, the stability control isn't that necessary for that bit of sand next to the track. Gravel can really slow down any wheel caught in it, while the other wheels are moving at full speed...that's when Stability Control really kicks in.
If you could find a video of a BMW on the same course or even more difficult course it would ride level on the corners, it would not be rolling on it's side, it could go faster, it wouldn't do those choppy corners.
But, it was fun to watch!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You are correct no one posted anything about the 67 Pontiac GTO.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
TS SC ABS
And if you want more information watch;
News 12 -ESC
And finally;
More info Stability Control
If ABS, TC, SC are available, and you can afford it (and I say that because I have had many years when I could barely afford a new car or extra options at all) then I think it makes NO logical sense, not to have them.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Oh, I do! In these forums there are rules by which I must abide.
I have to bite my tongue all of the time lest I blast someone who needs to be blasted.
Unless you type with your tongue... shouldn't you be biting your fingers??? :P
You cannot eliminate the gaps, just reduce the number. The gaps are there for expansion/contraction of the metal rails.
First, the over-the-hill stopping doesn't show how much increase in stopping distance occurred with the ABS engaged. The verbal claim of the narrator was that the control would be increased and he didn't mention anything about stopping distance.
The icy slope shows why you don't gun the motor to spin the tires faster to hope for more traction: you just heat up the tire and the contact point, generating slicker ice and water mixture due to the heat. Instead you gently feather the pedal or clutch. I note they never showed starting the car from dead stop in the middle of the icy slope with the TC, they back up and show a slow run onto the ice.
As for the snow, the driver over steers to throw the car into a skid more drastic than it needed to be with the expected, hoped for result. However driving more carefully might have avoided the skid completely. The SC attempts to keep the car going straight or turning slightly; if you're going off the road, you'll hit whatever's in front of you. SC cannot repeal the laws of physics and over driving the vehicle.
The discussion seems to have wandered from Sales Stories. Anyone selling anything to interesting buyers or shoppers?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You mean all these years you've been on these boards you were actually holding back? :P
OH NO !!! A technical geek. It's guys like you that are giving this place the rap that it has.
What are your thoughts about safety systems? :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No it hasn't, we are trying to help Richard buy a car
However driving more carefully might have avoided the skid completely.
theres always be the person that will say, "duh, what I need dat fer, I am a grate driver, and nothings going to help me, cuz I am super driver and never make uh mistake or misjudge". And who has never been in an accident or had absolutely no traffic tickets?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
This sounds like the "favorable" side of "momentum" I mentioned a few posts back.
SC cannot repeal the laws of physics and over driving the vehicle.
"Physics", it always comes back to "physics". As long as we're on this planet we'll have to pay attention to this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have them and I am glad that they are there. When ABS became mainstream, there was a lot of talk that ABS actually lengthens stopping distances and that with proper brake modulation one could achieve shorter stops. While true, the problem was that when one is in a panic situation they have a tendency to hammer the brakes. Without ABS they would lock the wheels and skid, with ABS they would have a controlled stop.
The same is true for TC, if you don't gun the engine and maintain an acceleration within the adhesion level of the tires, the TC will not kick in. So if someone has had an issue with TC leaving them not moving because the TC was engaged, what would the vehicle have been doing if there was no TC?
To me all the safety systems are there to help keep a car doing what we want, but they cannot perform miracles if we get our car completely out of control.
RightO!
My first car had:
1. No power steering
2. Steering was not aligned
3. Wheel Balancing? Never heard of it then.
4. Firewall? Sure. The wall that was scorching hot and called the firewall. Could not keep your feet there after 2 hours of driving. Needed to cool off.
Still enjoyed it thoroughly. Never had an accident. Car had decent speed of up to 65mph.
>I don't mean to be, but $1,300 is big money just to have my color.
>Richard
Sales mistakes 101.
Never tell the dealer the color you want. Negotiate the price and then ask for the color.
I agree with everything you said, especially that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
On color I always think that while I tend not to be fixated on one particular color I won't buy a car in a color I don't like no matter how good the deal is. I'm the same way about an option that I either must have or don't want. I don't want anything where I'm going to have to look at it and say "I paid all that money and it....."
Revenue in my field are down 30%. Sales is the same, due to the discounts that lead to the loss of revenue.