No wonder GMotors is in trouble. Look at the [non-permissible content removed] dashboard. Do I have to look at that daily while driving to work? everyday? No way.
I used to see more than a few rental cars at BMW CCA HPDEs, but not so much now; most chapters have cracked down on them. One of my friends used his frequent flier miles and upgraded to a Jag XJ one year. He ran the drivers school and the autocross with it. The driver of the GM may not have been a pro, but he would at least have to have been an instructor, as instructors are the only ones allowed to carry passengers on the track.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The lake skid was at 70 instead of 50 mph. I got the wrong number when I heard it the first time. They don't mention what the final direction was after the 70 mph run with SC effective. I'd like to see them do that on a two lane country highway at 70 with all the ice and snow.
Looking again at the TC display, the second run with TC turned on was at a good clip when they ran up onto the ice. In the display of how poor the car is without TC in effect, spinning the wheels heats up the tire. Also keeping the wheel speed low gives a bit of grip until it breaks loose; but the driver didn't even try that. The traction control run was probably made after they cooled the tires by driving on the snow a bit.
I see cars with 4-wheel drive and lots of the extra electronic helpers off the road here when there is ice, freezing rain, sleet, or snow. I saw a recent Lexus SUV off the road on a two lane road where the tire lanes were wet and there was residual sleet of 1/4 to 1/2 inch in between the paths where the tires run. I can't figure out how she went off the road and I suppose the car had SC.
I see cars with 4-wheel drive and lots of the extra electronic helpers off the road here when there is ice, freezing rain, sleet, or snow.
I suspect that many people with 4wd/awd vehicles don't realize how much extra traction they get when they are accelerating and therefore they don't know how bad the grip really is and allow for it appropriately.
We're victims of our past experiences, as we use them to judge current conditions. Many years ago we bought an Explorer which had Auto 4wd (it would engage the front axle if the rear started to lose grip). I would normally add a bit more gas than necessary on our street when leaving in the morning to see what the road grip was. I did that with the Explorer and made the assumption on how it just moved forward that the road was fine. Then as I approached a corner where I was going to turn, I wanted to slow down and the ABS tried valiantly to slow us down but with limited success. It was an eye opener at how much more get up and go the 4wd gave without being noticed.
No amount of electronic nannies can defeat physics... Stability control can help a lot though, especially on SUVs, etc. if one is not paying all the attention they should be, abrupt maneuvers, etc. I would never buy a car without it.
the car didn't crash, so i think i made my point. it probably was a driver with a lot of track time, maybe at that track but not in that car. the left rear passenger was wearing a helmet, so they were somewhat prepared for the worst. the main point was for the video to be viewed and hopefully enjoyed.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"...what would the vehicle have been doing if there was no TC..."
My Eclipse has TC but you can turn it off. With TC on, the tires will spin for a short time and then the TC will activate ruining all your fun. With the TC off you will shred the tires and the torque steer will put you in the bushes if you don't bounce off the rev limiter first. Much more fun.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I was reading some reviews for new car dealerships in my area. The one below reminded me of my experience with the Kia Stores in the Louisville area. Previously I was curious as to what a dealer paid for these "ignition immobilizers". I'm guessing if they paid $140 per unit, then it probably took them two hours to install. So, maybe a total cost to dealership of $400.... and the Kia Stores put it as an dealer add-on for $2,600. WOW! That's crazy. My niece almost fell for it. Luckily she had the old jipster around to set her straight. The dealership waived this fee during negotiations for her without batting a lash.
These dealerships pre-install, as part of their "dealer prep", a "Security and Pin Stripe package", and it is mandatory and inescapable on every Kia they sell. Period. It consists of an RFID ignition immobilizer that is ugly as sin installed low on your dash near your knees, with two key-fob antenna units. Units like it sell on E-Bay for $35 and many can be found on the internet for up to $120. This dealership puts a price of $2600 (Clarksville, IN). OF course, if you ask them, they'll tell you it can't be taken off, is a standard Kia item, reduces your insurance, and they can't take it off now because your car won't run without it. (Yet it has a defeat function if you don't want to use it!)
Nick, I'm surprised at you. I'm going to spend all of that time negotiating for a car, finally tell him the color, only to find out that he doesn't have that color? Why waste his time or mine? I know. I will negotiate for the car; order the car, but tell him that I want a colorless car. :P Wonder what they send me?
Don't fear for me...and I know what you mean. If I were in your country, I would never do it. It is different here. You are a kind soul.
Haha, funny. That's really an outrageous price to charge for an immobilizer. But you know what they say...they'll charge whatever the market will bear.
If enough people will walk away from deals due to this add on then maybe they''ll start charging less or reconsider this whole package.
I remember the Honda dealer I worked at made us push VIN etching into every deal. It was $299 iirc. If you didn't sell it then they'd put it on the car anyways but deduct $299 from your gross, and pay you a $30 spiff (reduced from $50 they paid before). Everyone was choked because it wasn't our job to upsell stuff for the b/o and we were getting penalized for it. Commissions were low to begin with and then this stuff came down as we were getting pencilled left and right at that store. :mad:
Yup I agree with you on the fun part. It is one thing to be doing things like that intentionally vs when you really are just trying to drive without drama.
If you didn't sell it then they'd put it on the car anyways but deduct $299 from your gross, and pay you a $30 spiff (reduced from $50 they paid before).
WOW, they were screwing your brains out. Least they could have done is cut you a deal and charge $199 or something. Cost on etch back when we did it 4 or 5 years ago was $12. The F&I guy was getting fat on you though.
the car didn't crash, so i think i made my point Not sure what the point was...that you don't really need Stabilty Control if you drive like an idiot anyway! the main point was for the video to be viewed and hopefully enjoyed. It was viewed and thoroughly enjoyed. I wouldn't drive with that guy if the car had SC or not.
With TC on, the tires will spin for a short time and then the TC will activate ruining all your fun.
I forgot about that...my less mature days when I could do donuts and swerve around corners to see if I could get the car to fishtale and things like that. Maybe that's the problem, the safety devices ruin peoples fun.
Perhaps another dog posted about a BMW - I don't recall posting about the ultimate driving machine...
Now see, that’s what happens when people use last names. Since we know each other here rather well, we should use first names when talking to our poster buddies. Then again that could be kinda touchy. Imagine what would happen if a poster had a handle like, say “pussycat’ ? :surprise: :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
1. Never park in the front of the dealership. Behind the dealership is fine as long as the salesperson doesn't see what you are driving.
2. Walk briskly and with purpose into the dealership. Make sure you have a clipboard under your arm. It doesn't matter what is on the legal pad, doodles from your 4 yr old are fine.
3. When you are greeted by the salesperson, do not shake their hand. Acknowledge their existence with a nod and ask them if they want to sell a car today.
4. Never make eye contact with your salesperson. By doing so, you look disinterested and strong. That makes the salesperson work harder and they start giving away profit.
5. The salesperson may try to break the ice with small talk or ask you about the circumstances bringing you into the market. Follow these simple rules -
5a. Never ever under any circumstances let the dealer know you have a trade. They will use this information to extract extra money from you.
5b. Never let them know anything about your family. The dealer can use this information to help find the right vehicle for you. Also, it might create common ground and you should never get close to the salesperson.
5c. Flirt with the receptionist.
6. Do not disclose the vehicle you are interested in to the salesperson. Make him go over all their makes/models and get prices on all of them. You want to be an informed buyer. Knowledge is power.
7. Test drive as many vehicles as time permits.
8. When the salesperson asks for the sale (on anything), tell him you need to pray to your wife while she thinks about it. Then mumble something about the economy and hurry off with your clipboard.
9. Don't take any calls by the salesperson. Don't return any e-mails. Do not have any communication with him for around 2 weeks. If you do, the salesperson wins.
10. After you have settled on the vehicle you want in the comfort of your own home with your cats, show up unannounced at the dealership. Do not ask for the salesperson you worked with. If a salesperson asks if you have ever been to the dealership, stare blankly at him until he becomes uncomfortable.
11. Pick out a car and make an offer even you think would be unreasonable. Like: "I will give you 2 handfuls of candy corn and a backrub for that Aztek." If the salesperson takes the offer to the manager, then you know you can make a deal at at this store.
12. Grind. Constantly. If you don't, the terrorists win.
13. Complain. About time taken, your salesperson's odor, the lack of options on a vehicle that you selected, about the economy, the smell of popcorn, about how you wish Seinfeld was making new episodes, how Jack Bauer is your personal Savior and he doesn't return phone calls.
14. Once you've come to an agreement on the price of the vehicle (by that I mean they have chased you out the door 3 times and given you everything in the dealership) demand something for free. Floor mats, key chain, hat, firstborn, Laffy Taffy, etc. Anything. Get something else from them.
15. Pay cash. Financing is always a stupid decision. Suckers and chumps finance or lease.
16. Decline everything in F&I. Finance managers are the pawns of Satan. They offer evil products designed to destroy you and your family.
17. Your vehicle should be ready now. Walk out and start complaining again. Point out water streaks, fuzz and the lack of the pinstripe you allegedly asked for.
18. Get in your vehicle and floor it. Burn you tires out as you drive off.
19. Hammer the dealership and salesperson on the survey. If you there was nothing negative about the transaction, find something.
20. Enjoy your new ride!
Hope this helps everyone as they make a purchase in this buyer's market. Just remember, the economy only affects new cars, it has zero impact on used car sales (specifically your trade-in, it's still worth a mint).
If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to add.
Answer your cell phone when it rings. Walk around the showroom talking for fifteen minutes. Do this several times.
Better yet, when you have finally settled on a deal, shake the salesperson hand then using your cell phone, call another dealer, tell him the number you have agreed on and ask him if he can beat it.
I have posted this before but here are the 5 critical things to look for when choosing your next sales person. I promise you that if you follow these steps you will get a deal that you will never forget.
1. He greets you before your car stops moving, in doing this he shows that he is eager to help you. In the process he gives an elbow to the face of of one of his fellow sales people and trips another. This is just another sign of his eagerness to help and wants to ensure that you are not exposed to one of his less qualified co-workers.
2. His dress: White paten leather shoes, wide white belt, dress slacks, a white shirt, and a tie with cars on it and a hint of the ravviolli sauce from lunch 3 days ago. But most important check out the amount of gold he has on. If he only has a wedding ring and nothing else, run, run away quick, he is obviously a failure at his chosen profession. Now if he has 4 rings, a gold bracelet, and enough gold necklaces to qualify as Mr. T starter kit then you have found your man.
3. Conversation: Make sure he speaks only to you and does not even honor your wifes presence with a hello. But when he does eventually speak to her make sure he calls her, honey and darlin and only ask for her opinion when it comes to color. Every one knows buying a car is mans business and a women should not have to worry her pretty little head about it. Especially when you start talking about the money.
4. Make 110% sure that within 5 minutes of you looking at the first car these words come out of his mouth, "If I could get you a great deal would you buy this car today" This needs to happen before the test drive, actually it is best if it happens before he ever gets a key to open the door. This shows he is eager to get you done quickly, we all know your time is valuable.
5. After the sale: the way you will really know that you have found a winner and have been helped by the best they got is after the sale. When you get home you notice the floor mats are missing and you only got one key so you give him a call. After 3 days he does not return your calls. This shows that he is a great salesperson because he is helping so many customers in the manner he helped you that he does not even have time to call you.
But here is the icing on the cake that proves you got the best in the biz. You go to the dealership to get your key and floor mats and when you pull up your professional salesperson greets you and says, "Welcome to Sell and Forget Motors can I help you"? That proves he is so intent on taking care of a new customer he can't even remember you.
These are just a few of the things that show you how to get the best.
Oops the 80's just called me, they want there stereo type back.
LOL.....that's some funny stuff right there, Moo, Isell, Joel.
I still think "the jipster method" (pat. pending) is the best.
Roll into the dealership. Immediately hit the showroom. Find a nice clean negotiating table. Open your briefcase. Pull out a laptop with multiples of spreadsheets. Set up financial calculator. Pull out your limburger cheese sandwich (onions optional). Pop open a Red Bull. Wait to be approached by several sales people, who are curious about the smell emanating from the desk. Tell all sales people you want the stripper "one only" that they advertised two months ago. Write first pencil on a greasy notepad...."two crushed Pepsi cans and a two month subscription to Reader's Digest".
Wait until the "4 square" sheet is pulled out by the sales person. Spill Red Bull on the 4 square. Tell the sales person to take the offer sheet to the tower. When the counter offer comes back, stare blankly at the sales person, eyes beginning to tear up, mention to him/her that Prozac is a wonder drug that the entire population should have a script for.
Then (and only then) mention that there might be a Chevy Citation that you may, or may not, use as a trade.
Tell the salesperson you're not in the market until 2011.
Leave...go to next dealership. Start the process all over, again.
My friend related this sales story to me...the pros here can comment.
My friend Jim was telling me`about his first and only new car he ever bought, a 1976 Chev Nova. He had numerous problems but the last big one was he had a trunkful of water every time it rained. He complained to his salesman, and the salesman put his arm around him and said, "Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy, so what's the big problem, if you think about it, how often does it rain." Ever since then he has never bought a new car again, only used ones where he says, "I only pay 10 cents on the dollar for them".
Moral: Another potential customer lost forever!
Same friend said someone put up a message on the bulletin board at work; The Big 3 decided that since no one was buying their crappy cars any more they had to find another way to get your money :sick:
This advice for the buyer's market is GREAT! I wish I had known all this info before I bought my car (although I will admit attempting to grind off the extra profit dealer doc fee).
moo - I agree with 5c and 18 especially, although as the IROC-Z days taught us all, 18 accomplishes 5c.
isell - don't forget about texting while making the deal - it shows the dealer how important you are!
joel - gold is definitely important - look how much these companies will pay you for your old gold jewelry
gg - jip is going to increase your dues so that he can get the patent paperwork started in the "jipster method" not to be confused with the "jipst method" already in use today
Great stuff, everyone! Richard, did you get all this down? If you combine all this advice, you could probably get that dealer near you to give us all GM's (black) just to stop talking to you!
A: When negotiatiing, never do it sitting down in an office. Sitting down means you lose and the saleperson wins. Negotiate by pacing around the showroom and make the salesperson find you and chase you down with a new offer.
B: Do not sign anything. Get the Business Office to print out the full contract, and then take it to your family, your quarterback, your mechanic, and your boss for a review. If available, have your lawyer read over it. You can be sure that the dealer slipped something in there to screw you over.
C: Do not leave a deposit once a deal is reached. After all your good word will hold the deal and vehicle in place until you decide that there is no better deal anywhere in a 1000 mile radius.
Your trade in is always worth "top book". Any repairs such as dings, stains, and mechanical issues cost the dealer pennies to fix, so make sure that nothing is deducted from what these cars are "going for" in the local paper or auto trader.
E: E overrules D if you have money left owing on your trade in vehicle. In that case it's worth the same as the amount of your loan, no matter what the amount, or "top book" value, whichever amount is greater.
F: No matter what the price of any car is, whether it's $20k, $30k, or $50k, the finance payments should always come out to less than $300/month over 60 months with $0 down. If the dealer says otherwise then they're lying.
11. Pick out a car and make an offer even you think would be unreasonable. Like: "I will give you 2 handfuls of candy corn and a backrub for that Aztek."
When was the last time you looked at an Aztek? Those things are but ugly, I mean Pontiac has a right to make ugly cars but the Aztek is abusing that right. 2 handfuls of candy corn and a back rub is about what something that ugly is worth.
Pay cash. Financing is always a stupid decision. Suckers and chumps finance or lease.
Nothing wrong with paying cash. Cars today will last 10-15 years, keep the car that long put your car payment in an interest bearing account after you finish paying it off and you will never have to take out a car loan again.
If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to add.
Yeah, once you agree on a deal go to another dealership and get the same car for less and tell your salesman "to bad so sad".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Maybe you gotta use your key and put it in the hole to activate the child locks. I think you are right boom. I believe there is a switch in the door to activate the kids locks. Seems to me we eventually found it because often adults would get locked in the back and we would have to let them out by pressing a button on the door panel. Hope murphydog finds the switch, MB is the last car I would have guessed not to have this feature.
Leave it to my wonderful friends at Edmunds to provide the ammunition that I need to purchase a car. I have printed off all of the posts and placed them in my "jipst" briefcase, along with my gold bracelet, three necklaces, and four rings. I'll remember to take my laptop, my cell phone, and my dog. He is good at peeing on waxed floors when out in public. Personally, I like to take an opened can of sardines to munch on while I am there. Also, I'll remember to smoke a cheap pack of cigarettes in my trade on the way to the dealer...with the windows up and the air turned off. In addition, I'll take my wife who can ask questions like, "Why doesn't this Grand Marquis get 35 mpg?" or "Can you put extra vanity mirrors on the head rests for my back seat passengers?" You know what? I may end up getting that Grand Marquis for free!
Look in the rear door jamb (sp?). If there's no switch then there should be a place to put the edge of a key, or a flat head screw driver in to activate this feature.
I believe this feature is standard on all mass produced four doors since the 70s or 80s at least.
On my car there is a rectangular hole just below the lock mechanism - the service guy shined a light in, but there is nothing to move or flip.
On the 09 there is a rectangular hole as well (clearly part of the manufacturing process), but the 09 has a small latch you can flip to disable the door - aka child lock. This is what I expected to find on my car as it seems to be on every other 4 door.
I will speak to the head service writer at my dealer to see what the deal is.
Comments
I fear for you Richard. I hope you understand what I mean.....
:puke.....
No wonder GMotors is in trouble. Look at the [non-permissible content removed] dashboard. Do I have to look at that daily while driving to work? everyday? No way.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
No, but the hotel I stayed at in Munich overlooked the BMW factory. It would have been really nice to bring one home.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Looking again at the TC display, the second run with TC turned on was at a good clip when they ran up onto the ice. In the display of how poor the car is without TC in effect, spinning the wheels heats up the tire. Also keeping the wheel speed low gives a bit of grip until it breaks loose; but the driver didn't even try that. The traction control run was probably made after they cooled the tires by driving on the snow a bit.
I see cars with 4-wheel drive and lots of the extra electronic helpers off the road here when there is ice, freezing rain, sleet, or snow. I saw a recent Lexus SUV off the road on a two lane road where the tire lanes were wet and there was residual sleet of 1/4 to 1/2 inch in between the paths where the tires run. I can't figure out how she went off the road and I suppose the car had SC.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I suspect that many people with 4wd/awd vehicles don't realize how much extra traction they get when they are accelerating and therefore they don't know how bad the grip really is and allow for it appropriately.
We're victims of our past experiences, as we use them to judge current conditions. Many years ago we bought an Explorer which had Auto 4wd (it would engage the front axle if the rear started to lose grip). I would normally add a bit more gas than necessary on our street when leaving in the morning to see what the road grip was. I did that with the Explorer and made the assumption on how it just moved forward that the road was fine. Then as I approached a corner where I was going to turn, I wanted to slow down and the ABS tried valiantly to slow us down but with limited success. It was an eye opener at how much more get up and go the 4wd gave without being noticed.
it probably was a driver with a lot of track time, maybe at that track but not in that car.
the left rear passenger was wearing a helmet, so they were somewhat prepared for the worst.
the main point was for the video to be viewed and hopefully enjoyed.
My Eclipse has TC but you can turn it off. With TC on, the tires will spin for a short time and then the TC will activate ruining all your fun. With the TC off you will shred the tires and the torque steer will put you in the bushes if you don't bounce off the rev limiter first. Much more fun.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
These dealerships pre-install, as part of their "dealer prep", a "Security and Pin Stripe package", and it is mandatory and inescapable on every Kia they sell. Period. It consists of an RFID ignition immobilizer that is ugly as sin installed low on your dash near your knees, with two key-fob antenna units. Units like it sell on E-Bay for $35 and many can be found on the internet for up to $120. This dealership puts a price of $2600 (Clarksville, IN). OF course, if you ask them, they'll tell you it can't be taken off, is a standard Kia item, reduces your insurance, and they can't take it off now because your car won't run without it. (Yet it has a defeat function if you don't want to use it!)
Nick, I'm surprised at you. I'm going to spend all of that time negotiating for a car, finally tell him the color, only to find out that he doesn't have that color? Why waste his time or mine? I know. I will negotiate for the car; order the car, but tell him that I want a colorless car. :P Wonder what they send me?
Don't fear for me...and I know what you mean. If I were in your country, I would never do it. It is different here. You are a kind soul.
Richard
Haha, funny. That's really an outrageous price to charge for an immobilizer. But you know what they say...they'll charge whatever the market will bear.
If enough people will walk away from deals due to this add on then maybe they''ll start charging less or reconsider this whole package.
I remember the Honda dealer I worked at made us push VIN etching into every deal. It was $299 iirc. If you didn't sell it then they'd put it on the car anyways but deduct $299 from your gross, and pay you a $30 spiff (reduced from $50 they paid before).
Everyone was choked because it wasn't our job to upsell stuff for the b/o and we were getting penalized for it. Commissions were low to begin with and then this stuff came down as we were getting pencilled left and right at that store. :mad:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
But for fun wouldn't it be better to have RWD?
WOW, they were screwing your brains out. Least they could have done is cut you a deal and charge $199 or something. Cost on etch back when we did it 4 or 5 years ago was $12. The F&I guy was getting fat on you though.
Not sure what the point was...that you don't really need Stabilty Control if you drive like an idiot anyway!
the main point was for the video to be viewed and hopefully enjoyed.
It was viewed and thoroughly enjoyed. I wouldn't drive with that guy if the car had SC or not.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
check your email...
Keep up the good work, I enjoy lurking in this forum - gets me through the conference calls at work... :shades:
Richard
That seems strange - we had safety locks on our 1999 and 2003 MB C230 -40s
Maybe they took them out to put in another car and forgot to put them back.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I forgot about that...my less mature days when I could do donuts and swerve around corners to see if I could get the car to fishtale and things like that. Maybe that's the problem, the safety devices ruin peoples fun.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Oh yes, definitely, but one does what one can with the money available. most RWD "fun" cars that I could afford are too small for me to fit in.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Never tell the dealer the auto you are really interested in. Negotiate the price and then ask for vehicle.
Now see, that’s what happens when people use last names. Since we know each other here rather well, we should use first names when talking to our poster buddies. Then again that could be kinda touchy. Imagine what would happen if a poster had a handle like, say “pussycat’ ? :surprise: :shades:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
1. Never park in the front of the dealership. Behind the dealership is fine as long as the salesperson doesn't see what you are driving.
2. Walk briskly and with purpose into the dealership. Make sure you have a clipboard under your arm. It doesn't matter what is on the legal pad, doodles from your 4 yr old are fine.
3. When you are greeted by the salesperson, do not shake their hand. Acknowledge their existence with a nod and ask them if they want to sell a car today.
4. Never make eye contact with your salesperson. By doing so, you look disinterested and strong. That makes the salesperson work harder and they start giving away profit.
5. The salesperson may try to break the ice with small talk or ask you about the circumstances bringing you into the market. Follow these simple rules -
5a. Never ever under any circumstances let the dealer know you have a trade. They will use this information to extract extra money from you.
5b. Never let them know anything about your family. The dealer can use this information to help find the right vehicle for you. Also, it might create common ground and you should never get close to the salesperson.
5c. Flirt with the receptionist.
6. Do not disclose the vehicle you are interested in to the salesperson. Make him go over all their makes/models and get prices on all of them. You want to be an informed buyer. Knowledge is power.
7. Test drive as many vehicles as time permits.
8. When the salesperson asks for the sale (on anything), tell him you need to pray to your wife while she thinks about it. Then mumble something about the economy and hurry off with your clipboard.
9. Don't take any calls by the salesperson. Don't return any e-mails. Do not have any communication with him for around 2 weeks. If you do, the salesperson wins.
10. After you have settled on the vehicle you want in the comfort of your own home with your cats, show up unannounced at the dealership. Do not ask for the salesperson you worked with. If a salesperson asks if you have ever been to the dealership, stare blankly at him until he becomes uncomfortable.
11. Pick out a car and make an offer even you think would be unreasonable. Like: "I will give you 2 handfuls of candy corn and a backrub for that Aztek." If the salesperson takes the offer to the manager, then you know you can make a deal at at this store.
12. Grind. Constantly. If you don't, the terrorists win.
13. Complain. About time taken, your salesperson's odor, the lack of options on a vehicle that you selected, about the economy, the smell of popcorn, about how you wish Seinfeld was making new episodes, how Jack Bauer is your personal Savior and he doesn't return phone calls.
14. Once you've come to an agreement on the price of the vehicle (by that I mean they have chased you out the door 3 times and given you everything in the dealership) demand something for free. Floor mats, key chain, hat, firstborn, Laffy Taffy, etc. Anything. Get something else from them.
15. Pay cash. Financing is always a stupid decision. Suckers and chumps finance or lease.
16. Decline everything in F&I. Finance managers are the pawns of Satan. They offer evil products designed to destroy you and your family.
17. Your vehicle should be ready now. Walk out and start complaining again. Point out water streaks, fuzz and the lack of the pinstripe you allegedly asked for.
18. Get in your vehicle and floor it. Burn you tires out as you drive off.
19. Hammer the dealership and salesperson on the survey. If you there was nothing negative about the transaction, find something.
20. Enjoy your new ride!
Hope this helps everyone as they make a purchase in this buyer's market. Just remember, the economy only affects new cars, it has zero impact on used car sales (specifically your trade-in, it's still worth a mint).
If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to add.
Answer your cell phone when it rings. Walk around the showroom talking for fifteen minutes. Do this several times.
Better yet, when you have finally settled on a deal, shake the salesperson hand then using your cell phone, call another dealer, tell him the number you have agreed on and ask him if he can beat it.
1. He greets you before your car stops moving, in doing this he shows that he is eager to help you. In the process he gives an elbow to the face of of one of his fellow sales people and trips another. This is just another sign of his eagerness to help and wants to ensure that you are not exposed to one of his less qualified co-workers.
2. His dress: White paten leather shoes, wide white belt, dress slacks, a white shirt, and a tie with cars on it and a hint of the ravviolli sauce from lunch 3 days ago. But most important check out the amount of gold he has on. If he only has a wedding ring and nothing else, run, run away quick, he is obviously a failure at his chosen profession. Now if he has 4 rings, a gold bracelet, and enough gold necklaces to qualify as Mr. T starter kit then you have found your man.
3. Conversation: Make sure he speaks only to you and does not even honor your wifes presence with a hello. But when he does eventually speak to her make sure he calls her, honey and darlin and only ask for her opinion when it comes to color. Every one knows buying a car is mans business and a women should not have to worry her pretty little head about it. Especially when you start talking about the money.
4. Make 110% sure that within 5 minutes of you looking at the first car these words come out of his mouth, "If I could get you a great deal would you buy this car today" This needs to happen before the test drive, actually it is best if it happens before he ever gets a key to open the door. This shows he is eager to get you done quickly, we all know your time is valuable.
5. After the sale: the way you will really know that you have found a winner and have been helped by the best they got is after the sale. When you get home you notice the floor mats are missing and you only got one key so you give him a call. After 3 days he does not return your calls. This shows that he is a great salesperson because he is helping so many customers in the manner he helped you that he does not even have time to call you.
But here is the icing on the cake that proves you got the best in the biz. You go to the dealership to get your key and floor mats and when you pull up your professional salesperson greets you and says, "Welcome to Sell and Forget Motors can I help you"? That proves he is so intent on taking care of a new customer he can't even remember you.
These are just a few of the things that show you how to get the best.
Oops the 80's just called me, they want there stereo type back.
I still think "the jipster method" (pat. pending) is the best.
Roll into the dealership. Immediately hit the showroom. Find a nice clean negotiating table. Open your briefcase. Pull out a laptop with multiples of spreadsheets. Set up financial calculator. Pull out your limburger cheese sandwich (onions optional). Pop open a Red Bull. Wait to be approached by several sales people, who are curious about the smell emanating from the desk. Tell all sales people you want the stripper "one only" that they advertised two months ago. Write first pencil on a greasy notepad...."two crushed Pepsi cans and a two month subscription to Reader's Digest".
Wait until the "4 square" sheet is pulled out by the sales person. Spill Red Bull on the 4 square. Tell the sales person to take the offer sheet to the tower. When the counter offer comes back, stare blankly at the sales person, eyes beginning to tear up, mention to him/her that Prozac is a wonder drug that the entire population should have a script for.
Then (and only then) mention that there might be a Chevy Citation that you may, or may not, use as a trade.
Tell the salesperson you're not in the market until 2011.
Leave...go to next dealership. Start the process all over, again.
Just funnin' with you Jip........
LOL. That was priceless. Do you think such a person could enjoy his ride or anything else in his life?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
My friend Jim was telling me`about his first and only new car he ever bought, a 1976 Chev Nova. He had numerous problems but the last big one was he had a trunkful of water every time it rained. He complained to his salesman, and the salesman put his arm around him and said, "Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy, so what's the big problem, if you think about it, how often does it rain." Ever since then he has never bought a new car again, only used ones where he says, "I only pay 10 cents on the dollar for them".
Moral: Another potential customer lost forever!
Same friend said someone put up a message on the bulletin board at work;
The Big 3 decided that since no one was buying their crappy cars any more they had to find another way to get your money :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
MB safety equipment
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
extra profitdealer doc fee).moo - I agree with 5c and 18 especially, although as the IROC-Z days taught us all, 18 accomplishes 5c.
isell - don't forget about texting while making the deal - it shows the dealer how important you are!
joel - gold is definitely important - look how much these companies will pay you for your old gold jewelry
gg - jip is going to increase your dues so that he can get the patent paperwork started in the "jipster method" not to be confused with the "jipst method" already in use today
Great stuff, everyone! Richard, did you get all this down? If you combine all this advice, you could probably get that dealer near you to give us all GM's (black) just to stop talking to you!
I must've read that wrong.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Let me add a few as well.
A: When negotiatiing, never do it sitting down in an office. Sitting down means you lose and the saleperson wins. Negotiate by pacing around the showroom and make the salesperson find you and chase you down with a new offer.
B: Do not sign anything. Get the Business Office to print out the full contract, and then take it to your family, your quarterback, your mechanic, and your boss for a review. If available, have your lawyer read over it. You can be sure that the dealer slipped something in there to screw you over.
C: Do not leave a deposit once a deal is reached. After all your good word will hold the deal and vehicle in place until you decide that there is no better deal anywhere in a 1000 mile radius.
E: E overrules D if you have money left owing on your trade in vehicle. In that case it's worth the same as the amount of your loan, no matter what the amount, or "top book" value, whichever amount is greater.
F: No matter what the price of any car is, whether it's $20k, $30k, or $50k, the finance payments should always come out to less than $300/month over 60 months with $0 down. If the dealer says otherwise then they're lying.
:P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
For some reason, he's certain that someone is going to believe these are true.
Keep them coming guys. These are great additions!
So funny.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
When was the last time you looked at an Aztek? Those things are but ugly, I mean Pontiac has a right to make ugly cars but the Aztek is abusing that right. 2 handfuls of candy corn and a back rub is about what something that ugly is worth.
Pay cash. Financing is always a stupid decision. Suckers and chumps finance or lease.
Nothing wrong with paying cash. Cars today will last 10-15 years, keep the car that long put your car payment in an interest bearing account after you finish paying it off and you will never have to take out a car loan again.
If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to add.
Yeah, once you agree on a deal go to another dealership and get the same car for less and tell your salesman "to bad so sad".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think you are right boom. I believe there is a switch in the door to activate the kids locks. Seems to me we eventually found it because often adults would get locked in the back and we would have to let them out by pressing a button on the door panel.
Hope murphydog finds the switch, MB is the last car I would have guessed not to have this feature.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Probably a lot of truth in there too!
You're all a very creative group. A lot of thought went into all of those ideas and they should be put into a Car Mag to reach an even wider audience.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The locks are not mentioned in the owners manual -
OK, now this is a quest! - A quest for rear child safety locks!
My dealer has been very good so far, however this will be the ultimate test of their skill and knowledge!
Will post any updates...
Good stuff boys!
Richard
I believe this feature is standard on all mass produced four doors since the 70s or 80s at least.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
When you're done they might even PAY you to drive the damn thing off the lot just to get rid of you.
To show them you mean business, throw the trade in keys on the roof of the dealership yourself! :P
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Given that I buy a car every 4-5 years (one for me, one for my wife), I'll take all this into account in 2012 or thereabouts.
That was my assumption as well.
On my car there is a rectangular hole just below the lock mechanism - the service guy shined a light in, but there is nothing to move or flip.
On the 09 there is a rectangular hole as well (clearly part of the manufacturing process), but the 09 has a small latch you can flip to disable the door - aka child lock. This is what I expected to find on my car as it seems to be on every other 4 door.
I will speak to the head service writer at my dealer to see what the deal is.