Stories from the Sales Frontlines

boomchek

Wife and I stayed at the Luxor about 3 years ago before we were married. Not a bad hotel, biut not much of a view from our room. The elevators are not that angular iirc.

My fav in Vegas was Paris, when on our honeymoon we got upgraded to a 1 bedroom 700sq ft suite on the top floor with a view of the Eiffel tower, the strip and Bellagio fountains. We ordered breakfast to our room which was about $40 :surprise: but worth the experience especially staying in such a nice suite.

I'd totally go back and stay at Paris again. Very lovely hotel and great customer service!

To keep on topic: You should visit Towbin Dodge, where the King Of Cars was filmed and let us know of your experience

explorerx4

i would love to hear a story about that!

roadburner

I'm sorry Richard. When we lose a dog I always say "Never again."
But we always end up with another one.

oldfarmer50

"...he's cancelling the deal..."

That's a first, he got buyer's remorse before he bought.

explorerx4

never had a dog. can't bear the thought of leaving it home all day.
we have 2 guinea pigs (brothers). one of them will sit on my shoulder and watch tv with me or sit on my chest an take a nap.
you should see the look on some peoples faces when they ask me why i am cherry picking the green beans at the grocery store and i tell them they are for my guinea pigs.
usually, i have bought a new car by the time they pass on.

tidester

I am finding it really hard to believe that every story from the sales frontlines has already been told and that there are none left. :confuse:

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

oldfarmer50

Sorry about the pup

Get another one right away. Trust me.

roadburner

I know you told us somewhere but why do you not like the Mazda? Curious minds want to know.

Blown LF strut at @25,000 miles. That cost me a week of instructing at Watkins Glen. :mad:

Smoking turbo at @26,000 miles. The turbo was replaced, but now Mazda claims that the smoking is actually caused by an inadequate PCV system. Five months ago they promised that a PCV revised system would be available in 90 days. Now Mazda is saying the fix won't be ready until March at the earliest.

Variable Valve Timing Actuator became noisy at @46,000 miles. Replaced per TSB.

At 51,000 miles the car is throwing a P0401 fault code(EGR flow insufficient) on a regular basis. This repair-@$600-will be on my nickel as it seems that the EGR system is not covered by either the powertrain or the 49 state emissions warranty. Oh yeah, I also suspect that the remaining three shocks are also packing it in as I'm starting to hear some loud knocks from the rear suspension.

The car is only moderately quick, and it is much more composed serving as a grocery-getter as opposed to being used as a backroad bomber and/or track toy. My dealer has been great, but is located 110 miles away. The two local dealers have abysmal sales, parts, and service departments.

The thing is, Mazda hypes the Mazdaspeed cars as being very special machines-budget versions of BMW M cars if you will-so I'm not inclined to give the car's foibles a pass. As it stands now, I'm using it as a family transport and as an occasional auto parts/garbage hauler(the cargo area easily swallows a couple dozen grimy gallon jugs of used oil), and with all-seasons the MS3 also makes a passable winter beater.

That said, this entire fiasco is 100% my fault; I should have known that there is no way that you can buy a competent dual-purpose new car for $25,000. :sick:

lvranger

I don't think I can make that deal. I'm young and a bachelor. Not much holding me to this mortal coil. Don't worry though, i'm smart about it. I hate tickets so for the most part I obey the rules while in town and the last thing I want to do is put others in danger. Its the back roads where all bets are off and the only one that can get hurt is me. I've made peace with this game we must play with the current system. They don't care about anyones safety, training or building decent roads. All they care about is finding new and interesting ways to tax. Well i'll play that game, sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. I'm sure there will come a time where there is no more room for us evil speeders to flit about. Til that time I thank god for my wide open spaces.

I'll make you a deal. How would you have responded to your own advice at 25 years old? Answer honestly and i'll slow down for one week. :shades:

roadburner

I don't have any problem with strict speed enforcement in appropriate areas such as school zones, urban/suburban neighborhoods, construction zones, or similar. The majority of the remaining speeding tickets written are all about revenue and statistics. For example, when I worked traffic court I learned that cops on so-called "Federal Overtime Safety Enforcement" have to make four contact(read: write four citations) per hour.
Idiocy.
Disclaimer: My last speeding ticket was in 1996(92 in a 65). I managed to get it placed on diversion.

mcdawgg

agree with Isell, manual tranny's are almost "no sale" when it comes to cars. At the very least, you'll take a sizable hit when you try to trade one in, or if you try to sell it yourself. Try selling a manual tran car when you get the phone call to inquire about your sled and they ask if it's an automatic. When you reply it's a manual....you'll get a quick..."CLICK"

That has NOT been my experience selling my old manual trannys by myself. I have had no problems, and I have sold them for high book value, and that is only $300 or so less than an automatic version of the same car. Of course, my cars are meticulously maintained and very reliable.

fezo

I figure there are enough stick folks out there that I can find a buyer when I need one. That said it's been a loooong time since I sold a stick. It's been a long time since I sold a car at all.

I'm in with the pet folks. When we had to put my mutt Sam down getting close to 20 years ago my wife wouldn't hear of another dog for maybe 5 years. She had come in halfway in Sam's life.

Now that dog we got 12 years ago is heading for the last roundup. Gromit is a 14 year old black lab mutt and the single best kids dog I have ever seen. The kids rode him like a horse, pulled on his tail - all sorts of things and he has never complained. His arthritis is reaching the point where we'll have to let him go before long. This time I made sure there was already another dog in the house but if I had it to do over again it would be a smaller dog but it's another lab mutt. This one yellow.

Cats - you have to understand there are cats, good cats and great cats. I have had the good fortune to have had a couple of great cats. The current one isn't one of them but she's OK. Hates Wally the younger dog and won't let him walk by without informing all of her disapproval.

One of my daughters has a mouse. She had two but the senior mouse died just before we got home from the Florida vacation. Mice only live a year and a half but you can get very attached in that time.

explorerx4

do you 'track' your car? if so, i don't think you have much to complain about.

snakeweasel

Richard, sorry about your dog you have my deepest sympathy.

snakeweasel

Well its been said that there is nothing new under the sun. So until some General comes in trying to trade in an Abrams M1A2 all we are going to get is chatter.

roadburner

do you 'track' your car? if so, i don't think you have much to complain about.

I only took the Mazda to one three day HPDE. In contrast my 1973 Bavaria, 1987 535is, 1988 M6, and 1995 318ti had no problem handling several HPDEs per year. And Mazda runs all those ads touting how so many Mazdas compete in track events every weekend, blah, blah, blah... In contrast, I have friends -instructors AND students- who regularly track WRXs, Mustang GTs, Mini Coopers, and Civics(to name but a few) and none of them have experienced any problems.
So yes, I think that I do have a lot to complain about.

jipster

Well its been said that there is nothing new under the sun. So until some General comes in trying to trade in an Abrams M1A2 all we are going to get is chatter.

yeah...I've found it best not to build ones hopes for a story. They come around about as often as Christmas. But, when they finally do come, it is quite a treat. :shades:

I thought you were close to buying a couple times snake? That Hyundai still alive and kicking I suppose. :confuse:

cdn_tch

His arthritis is reaching the point where we'll have to let him go before long.

Check with your vet about getting your dog on Butte(sp?). It is a pain killer that we had for our Bouvier when she started to get old and sore. If the only issue your friend has is arthritis, this could extend your friendship a few more years.

nyccarguy

richard - I'm truly sorry for the loss of your dog. My family has owned Great Danes my entire life, so unfortunately I know what it's like to lose a 4 legged family member.

roadburner - you'd really consider an SMG E46 M3? I thought you were a hard core stick guy like me... you gettin' soft on me? LOL!

houdini1

I have heard that most of the new good stuff is used by vets before our docs get their hands on it.

roadburner

roadburner - you'd really consider an SMG E46 M3? I thought you were a hard core stick guy like me... you gettin' soft on me? LOL!

Hey, I said I might get an SMG. Probably not though. However, I was extremely impressed with the M DCT in the new M3.

snakeweasel

I thought you were close to buying a couple times snake? That Hyundai still alive and kicking I suppose.

I suppose it is, I just don't have it any more. I did pull the trigger on a new (to me at least) Sebring ragtop. Love the car and cannot wait for summer to roll around again.

dtezla

As a side note... I got married in Vegas at the world famous "Little White Chapel". Best $300 I'd ever spent way back in 1999.... would probably cost about $500 now. Other than that "gamble" I think we put $1 in a slot machine and quickly lost it. That was our only gambling.

I remember watching a show on TV called "Fear Factor". One of the stunts a contestant had to do was slide down side of the Luxor. I thought that would have been one of the coolest things to do in Vegas.

Assuming the windows wouldn't break, I think a Land Rover would be able to drive up the side with no problems.

graphicguy

Mentioned that I went with a friend to look at a new Taurus SHO. Well, he took his wife to look at one last night. She liked it, because it's....well.....BIG! Not many of these around town.

So, he wanted one extremely loaded...nav, heated/cooled seats, fancy wheels and tires. All told, about $44K MSRP (a bit taken aback by that price given it's a Taurus, albeit a very fast one).

They proceed to look at just about every Ford dealer within a 15 mile radius. None of them have the exact car they want. They ask all of them about doing a factory order. As expected, the dealerships will, but they'd rather they buy an in stock unit. Problem there is, all of the dealerships are holding to MSRP on them.....even a special order.

We share a friend who is an engineer at the local Ford plant in town. If buying a Ford, he always are able to get an "X-plan" pin number. Depending on the car, that usually means invoice, plus or minus a hundred or two. No dealership will offer X plan on the SHO (but will on a more vanilla Taurus).

Finally, he finds a little small town Ford dealership, that sells mostly trucks. The dealership is about 25 miles from where we live. Not part of a dealership group. It's been in business for a good long while. And, has been owned by the same family for about 40 years.

They don't have what he wants in stock. They've heard about the SHO, but haven't even seen one. If Ford were in the dealership cutting mode, as Chrysler and GM have been, this is one of the first dealerships I'd expect to be cut. I don't think they've done an update to their showroom since it was built ~40 years ago. And, they rarely have more than about 12-15 cars in stock, but probably double that in truck inventory.

I've been past this dealership before, but it's been years ago. It's really a step back in time seeing it. They've got 2 sales people, one of them is the sales manager. All are related to the owner in one fashion or another. A real small town dealer.

Long and short of it, they said they'd order whatever they wanted for X plan. Price, after the X plan discount was around $41K, give or take (still trying to wrap my mind around that number for a Taurus).

Dealership was thrilled. My friend said they fell all over themselves to order the SHO for them. Happily doing so, even at "X plan". There's not one option they didn't check off on the option list. It'll be about 6 weeks before they take delivery.

Happy for them. Happy for the dealership. No muss. No fuss.

Just one more note about Vegas. As mentioned, I was there last year. Just remembered I placed a $50 bet that my Bengals would win the Super Bowl this season at 107-1 odds. Fingers crossed.

jipster

Long and short of it, they said they'd order whatever they wanted for X plan

That's odd they would sell it for Xplan... odd that Ford would let them order one considering the dealerships low sales numbers. Maybe this dealership isn't familiar with pricing according to supply and demand.

Just remembered I placed a $50 bet that my Bengals would win the Super Bowl this season at 107-1 odds.

Hope you are able to collect on that bet. I've been a Bengals fan since the "Ickey Shuffle" rocked Riverfront Stadium. Would be great if they happened to meet the Dallas Cowboys in the Super Bowl. :surprise:

tedebear

But one day I would like to stay in the Luxor. If you haven't seen it it is shaped like a Pyramid and the elevators go up on an angle.

That Luxor pic is the side where our room was. We were on the top floor in a pyramid suite. It was more like an apartment than a hotel room. I guess it was a slow week because they gave us the upgrade from the room we'd reserved for just $50 more per night. Although the elevators (they call them inclinators) go slightly sideways you don't really feel it except when starting and stopping.

I'd wanted to gain access to the big beacon on top and see what kind of lights they use but they weren't offering tours. They say that light is only one of two man-made objects that can be seen from space. The other is the Great Wall of China.

sterlingdog

To: nyccarguy, oldfarmer, snakeweasel, Irguy, houdini, roadburner, michaell

Thanks so much for your kind words. I could never have imagined how many of you on this site are pet lovers. This has to be the best thread on the planet. Where else could you find a nicer group of people who love both pets and cars? That combination is hard to beat!

Richard

driver100

this entire fiasco is 100% my fault; I should have known that there is no way that you can buy a competent dual-purpose new car for $25,000

Thank you for your comments about your Mazda experience...zoom zoom.
If I ever get the urge to buy a Mazda, your comments would certainly have stopped me.

It does confirm my theory that it is better to spend a little more and buy what you really like. It might end up costing an extra $1000 or 2 a year, but you will enjoy what you are driving...and chances are you will keep it longer...and avoid sales taxes, transportation costs, high depreciation for trading in early, etc.

sterlingdog

I would make that deal with you but I was never 25 years old. :P No, I can still remember a little about those days. You're correct. If some old fart had given me that advice then, I wouldn't have listened.

I AM proud of you because you don't speed in town, and you do save it for the back roads. Still, be careful on those back roads. You wouldn't want to deprive some nice girl of a future husband. :shades:

Richard

roadburner

It does confirm my theory that it is better to spend a little more and buy what you really like. It might end up costing an extra $1000 or 2 a year, but you will enjoy what you are driving...and chances are you will keep it longer...and avoid sales taxes, transportation costs, high depreciation for trading in early, etc.

That's the thing, I usually don't get bored and/or disgusted with a car for quite some time. I've had my 3er since 1995 and my Wrangler since 2002. At this point I've lost $10,000-13,000 on the Mazdaspeed in depreciation alone, so I've learned an extremely expensive lesson. :sick:

stickguy

Jip, GGs story isn't really a normal sales situation for that small dealer. If they didn't do the X plan, the buyer walks out and goes to some local place to order.

so, little dealer gets to order and retail a 44K car, make an unexpected customer happy, and make a few bucks.

and since they had no chance to sell them an instock unit for more $$, it was this, or nothing.

stickguy

Yeah, I have learned the hard way when you settle to save a few $$, even when you really don't have to (I am a self-avowed cheapskate), you usually end up regretting it. And in the long run, it costs you more.

Best to decide what you really want to make you happy, and go for that, even if you have to wait a little bit. Then keep it a long time.

jipster

The local guys said they would rather gg's friend buy from in stock units. So, yeah, if going local and buying Xplan is an option, then the small dealer would want to make a deal to keep that from happening. But, that didn't seem the situation in this case.

explorerx4

ok, so maybe your car is a pos. that is a lot of hp/torque through the front wheels.
i don't really buy that anyone can track their stock mustang gt for more than a few laps.

explorerx4

i agree. it was a mom and pop store that got some 'found money'.
plus, it's an SHO, and these are ford people, so they are pretty darn excited about selling the latest and greatest.
someone at corporate is now saying 'how did they do that?'

mikefm58

A special thanks to all the pet lovers here for the kind words. In my experience pet lovers are some of the nicest people to be around. It has been so quiet here at the house the past couple days. It's amazing how much of a daily routine our pets make up in our day. I miss her :sniff:. She was an incredible dog, nothing like the reputation of her breed (Rottweiler), just a big ole lap dog that could only lick someone to death.

I'm going to give it a month or two before getting another, probably right after the holidays, not sure if I'll get a pup from a regular breeder or go to the local shelter.

And a thank you to our gracious hosts for allowing these off topic posts.

kyfdx

Let's hope MOMandPOP Ford have an allocation for that SHO Taurus..

explorerx4

hopefully, the 'holier than thou' corporate attitude has been knocked down a few pegs.
i would think ford would be thrilled to sell an SHO anyway they can through their dealership network.
between my wife and i we owned 1 of each of the first 3 generations of SHO's.
bought them all at mom and pop ford dealers.
i remember seeing my first one at a gas station in NY on our way to michigan.
the driver said he was on his way back from an introductory press event at lime rock.
didn't like the cranberry color of the car, but bought a titanium colored one about 6 months later.
back the mom and pop stores, a couple of years ago, went with my brother in law to a small ford dealer in NC to get the rotors replaced on his Mountaineer.
they had a red gt500 in the show room.
this place had paneling from the 60's and an oil portrait of the owner, who looked at least 80, in the showroom.
as we were looking (gawking) at the gt500, a salesman came over and said how about if i pop the hood? of course we said yes.
after that, he said i can hook up the electrics, if you want to sit in it,
at that point, i receded into a corner, but my BIL said sure.
while in my corner, i am thinking, what do i have to do to get this car?
you also have to understand the my BIL had a tubbed camaro running nitrous back in the early 80's.
at some point i looked at my BIL and he got the message, get out of the car.
he says to the sales guy, i need a cig.
we both go outside, walk around for a bit. then he says, lets go look at that. i say good idea.
it was a taurus x.

jipster

i would think ford would be thrilled to sell an SHO anyway they can through their dealership network

Well, they (SHO) are in high demand/short supply. So, if you are Ford who do you want to keep happy and profitable... a dealership selling 150 cars a month, or one selling 15 a month.

murphydog

I dunno Jipster - this dealer must be very aware of supply and demand - they currently have no SHOs, nor have they sold any. They can factory order one (minimum holding costs) and make a sale - no muss no fuss, and no gambling about having a low volume (though good looking) car sit for a long time hoping for an MSRP buyer

From that dealers point of view, why not do that kind of deal?

jipster

From that dealers point of view, why not do that kind of deal?

Oh, if I were the dealer I would do the deal. I'm just not sure why Ford is allocating such a small dealership a hot selling car. Guess they are required to do so.

roadburner

i don't really buy that anyone can track their stock mustang gt for more than a few laps.

Ever attended an HPDE? Check one out sometime; I think you'll be surprised.

kyfdx

Until the car actually gets a VIN, and is on the way to the dealer, who says they actually have an allocation?

The Prices Paid forums are littered with posts from people who get great deals on hot domestic cars.... that never get built. Only after months of waiting, they find out that their car never gets to the top of the production list, because the dealer doesn't have an allocation.

Hoping that isn't the case here... it's easy to make skinny deals on cars you don't have..

driver100

The Prices Paid forums are littered with posts from people who get great deals on hot domestic cars.... that never get built

Also, how hot is hot? It seems the new Taurus models are selling well, but are they really selling faster than Ford can build them? I doubt it.

Are sales so good dealers can't get them? I don't think so.

I tend to think Ford will be happy to slip an order for an SHO into the system and send it off to any dealer who requests it.

I wonder if this dealer is up to doing warranty work on this particular model.

How many people are interested in a 4,000+ pound car, which though it does have 365 h.p., gets about 16 mph?

british_rover

How many people are interested in a 4,000+ pound car, which though it does have 365 h.p., gets about 16 mph?

Well it gets 20 combined and 17 in the city using the new dumb EPA ratings so I imagine you would have to really flog it to get 16.

Plus the non turbo AWD Taurus gets the same mileage with 100 less hp.

The M45X and A6 V8 get worse mileage with lower power V8s in smaller lighter cars.

Every V8 AWD vehicle of similar size I can think of gets less mileage then a SHO.

lrguy44

Until the car actually gets a VIN, and is on the way to the dealer, who says they actually have an allocation?

Actually, without an allocation a car cannot be ordered. The software used at order call will prevent that.

sterlingdog

For that reason alone, it looks like people could find something that they like without ordering a car. With all of the cars sitting on car lots in America, I've always found something that I liked. That's just me.

Richard

murphydog

would be interesting to know if the SHO is in short supply from the top or if dealers only want a few to gauge public interest

murphydog

Driver - I know for me MPG is not a big deal. I live pretty close to work - 5 miles each way for my wife and ~ 10 for me. This allows us to pick what we really want and not worry too much about the cost of gas.

We decided long ago that 50 mile round trips are a stupid waste of time - and given the current prices of gas I am glad we did that. :shades:

I think there are many more people who use less gas by altering where they live and work instead of buying a Prius.

And my neighbor bought a new Civic ~ 1 year ago. She is dissapointed with mileage, but she drive 40+ miles each way!!! DUH!

sterlingdog

If MPG are as poor as your chart indicates, I wonder why we had the C4C program. I thought that the overall purpose was to get rid of those old cars that got below 17 MPG. It doesn't appear that the new products are much better. Hell, my old Explorer does better than the new Infiniti or Audi on your chart.

Of course you know how I feel about the C4C program and my tax dollars. I still get mad each time that I think about it.

Richard