Second of all if it took that customer a few hours to figure out that 30% interest and $450 a month payments are too high, they shouldn't be out by themselves shopping for anything at all.
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Second of all if it took that customer a few hours to figure out that 30% interest and $450 a month payments are too high, they shouldn't be out by themselves shopping for anything at all.
To be fair to the buyer, Graphicguy was helping somebody else that day :P
It may seem that way from a dealer's perspective but it's entirely possible that there are more people who do accept the "blame" themselves and just don't show up at the dealership until they have their affairs in order.
How will the warranty stuff work? Will they give me the same treatment as the people who actually bought a car from the local dealer.
In addition to the service loaner issue, some service departments -not necessarily BMW- give sales customers preference on scheduling appointments as well. I think that coercive attitude is very short-sighted; far better to give every customer excellent service in hopes they will buy there next car from the servicing dealer.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That also flies in the face of the oft mentioned information given here that dealers make most of their profit from "service". Why would they want to run these profitable customers off?
I know some dealers have attempted to "service" me on more than one occasion.
I think that we have to also realize that there are people in the world who are mentally challenged. I'm not trying to be funny here. When I taught at the high school level, there were many students who didn't compute simple math or have very much common sense. When they made personal mistakes, it often took them days or weeks to suddenly realize what they had done to themselves.
When these young people enter the real world, their thought processes and lack of certain abilities don't change. It all translates into major adult errors. Unless they have family members or close friends to guide them, they live a low functioning life in a world that is too smart and too fast for them. It's sad to see. It's even sadder when you can predict it because you watch them from ages 15-18 struggling to survive in the academic world, and not doing much better in the social world.
Do they graduate? Yes. Why? Political correctness and the threat of litigation has now guaranteed them a high school diploma...even a college degree at some institutions. Who is to blame for this societal ill? They are school administrators, teachers, counselors, parents, government, and organizations who foster a "yes' to all complaints and a "no" to setting standards. Glad that I retired to my world of books and blogs.
>Who is to blame for this societal ill? They are school administrators, teachers, counselors, parents, government, and organizations who foster a "yes' to all complaints
To blame? Start with the attorneys and the state organizations who took on the causes of the "rights" of many of diminished capacity. Friends of ours have adopted and they have quickly learned that everything is given to them as part of the adoption, including organizations who will take complaints about teachers or schools not fully allowing the children to have IEPs even if they don't need one for schooling. It even includes suing if needed, in case the organization people can't bully the teachers and principals.
In addition to the service loaner issue, some service departments -not necessarily BMW- give sales customers preference on scheduling appointments as well.
A concern I would have for example, would be, if I lost my keys and needed replacements. The local dealer has all my information and I am sure they could order a new one, and I could have someone drive me over when the new one came in......or these days they probably can load a new one up on the computer.
But, if I buy from a dealer who is a few hundred miles away, it might be a real hassle. Do they need to see my identification and paperwork before ordering? That is one example I can think of, but I am sure there are more. I just don't know if it is worth the problems that could come up...to buy from a dealer who is distant.
Can anyone think of an example where it created a problem.
there were many students who didn't compute simple math or have very much common sense.
It doesn't even have to be a mentally challenged person. I have a 30 year old relative who has run up her VISA to $10,000. She is complaining that she can only afford to make the $350 minimum payment each month, but the principle amount is not going down.
I have suggested credit councelling. They might be able to persuade the bank to make this into a regular loan at a much lower rate of interest than the current 28%.
I really think the use of credit cards, lines of credit, and how to manage money should be on the school curriculum. Maybe even how to buy and finance a car - to stay on topic.
they live a low functioning life in a world that is too smart and too fast for them
The more reason why they shouldn't make any big financial decisions without help (supervision?). If they don't seek out that help, it's still their fault.
In my case the selling Mazda dealer was located over 100 miles away. I also use them for service because the Louisville Mazda dealers are hopelessly inept.To say that they are a bunch of dimwitted morons would be a grievous insult to dimwitted morons everywhere.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The biggest issue with me for the longest time was durability. I'm extremely comfident that the GMT9000 trucks (Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon, Suburban, Yukon XL, & Escalade ESV) will last for the 5 years/100,000 miles that my Dad plans to keep it. Everyone I've ever spoken to that has a GMT9000 truck loves it.
My best friend recently traded in his lease Infinitit QX56 (yes, the same QX56 that infamously towed my 1990 BMW 325iA to Long Island in my cash 4 clunkers deal) for a 2009 Tahoe. He originally leased the QX56 (15K per year lease) for his 4'10" wife who after about a year said she thought the QX was too big. The front corners of the QX were all dinged up from garages, poles... He gave her his FX35 he was leasing at the time (20K per year lease). He put 44,000 miles on the QX in about 2 years & was faced with the prospect of giving the QX back to Infiniti with a lot of miles with $6000 in over mileage charges + excess wear & tear. So he drove the Tahoe & was impressed with it. He ended up with a great price on an '09 LTZ Tahoe + he ended up "only" having $4000 in negative equity on his QX56 - the 0% financing for 72 months sealed the deal for him. He's had the Tahoe for about 6 weeks (4000 miles) & loves it.
The Tahoe is a very handsome & rugged looking truck. Gets decent gas mileage for such a lumbering vehicle with a 5.3L V8. It drives great, that's the most important thing!
The Tahoe drives great, but isn't perfect. The interior materials in the QX are head & shoulders above the Tahoe. The Infinit's 3rd row of seats fold flat into the truck, while the Tahoe's seats must be removed & stored when no in use. The QX has lots more storage nooks. The Tahoe doesn't have HID/Xenon headlights like the QX. The bumper to bumper warranty on the Tahoe is 3 yrs/36K miles (Infiniti is 4 yrs/60K miles, my Dad's X5 is 4 yrs/50K miles). He says the QX was much faster (butt dyno). I'm a car nut & can nit pick things to death sometimes. I drove my best friend's Tahoe & was very impressed with how the truck drove.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I drove my best friend's Tahoe & was very impressed with how the truck drove.
Sounds like you have done your homework, and it all makes sense.
I just know from word of mouth. My brother in law bought a new Suburban every 2 years and wouldn't even consider anything else. All of a sudden he has a Tacoma, and he said he would never go back to the GM.
We had a contractor working on the house and he had a beautiful Tacoma parked outside. I said that is a nice truck. He said, I always had GMs in the past, but I like this a lot more.
I am sure the new GM trucks are much better and lasting 5 years for a new truck won't be a problem, and I am sure your dad will like his new truck...probably more comfortable, but that is really the first person I have actually heard of, returning to American made.
For a very short period of time I worked at a Chevy/Caddy/Subaru/Honda dealership that sort of specialized in working with people who had poor credit. They would have to purchase a late model used car with low mileage that would be suitable to the bank we used for them. They would also need to make weekly payments and if the payment wasn't received, the car had an electric shut-off that could be triggered to prevent the car from starting.
These people knew they were getting high interest loans and the point was to help re-establish their credit. But everytime they came in, the car they would be looking at on the lot was the 1 year old used Escalade or traded in Range Rover.... I never understood the mentality.
In my case the selling Mazda dealer was located over 100 miles away.
Do you ever take the car into your local dealer? Do they treat you the same as an actual customer who bought from them (probably equally badly from the sound of your opinion of them). Would you buy from a dealer 100 miles away again? Is there any downside so far?
Another related question I have is do all dealers have your information linked up by computer. If I call for service, or to have snowtires put on or removed, I give the dealer my phone number and they know what car I have and all the past history. If I have the work done at another dealer will they be hooked into the same system, or will I have to start all over again?
, the car had an electric shut-off that could be triggered to prevent the car from starting.
That's a great invention. Is that being done by most dealers today. Does it really make people pay on time? Who gets to press the button...I would like that job?
But everytime they came in, the car they would be looking at on the lot was the 1 year old used Escalade or traded in Range Rover.... I never understood the mentality
It's not about understanding. It was a direct manifestation of the main cause of their low credit score, i.e. not acknowledging reality of their own financial situation.
, i.e. not acknowledging reality of their own financial situation.
That seems like a very good observation and well stated. Probably related observations; * People who buy the most lottery tickets are the ones who can least afford them. * People who keep gambling until all their money is gone shouldn't enter a casino * People who pay the minimum balance due on their credit card should cut up their credit cards.
My own rule of thumb when buying a car and it seemed to work for some reason, was the value of the car could be up to half of a years salary. It gave me some breathing room, but was conservative enough to keep me out of trouble. I don't know if people use rules of thumb any more...like your house payments should equal 1/3 of your salary (these days it is closer to half).
No. I've heard too many horror stories. I did give my nearest Louisville dealer(Oxmoor Mazda) a shot at my parts business. I wanted a spare set of front brake pads, but the parts guy came back with a quoted price that was $57 over MSRP and $100 over the internet price offered by a couple of online Mazda dealers.
Do they treat you the same as an actual customer who bought from them (probably equally badly from the sound of your opinion of them).
That's what I'm afraid of...
Would you buy from a dealer 100 miles away again?
Only if: 1. The car was not available locally 2. My local dealer had a competent service department
Is there any downside so far?
It would be OK if I only had to take the car in for service, but I've also had three warranty issues that required multiple trips- through no fault of the dealer, I might add.
When all is said and done, I think I'm going to stay with Bimmers from now on. I have an excellent local dealer and an excellent indie BMW tech. And -thanks to BMW CCA-I also know where to get parts, who to call if I have a question, and who can help me with DIY projects if I get in over my head. At my advanced age there's a lot to be said for continuity...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If there is one thing GM, Ford (and to a lesser extent, Dodge) know how to do, it's making trucks and big SUVS.
I know my own '07 Tahoe has been exemplary. Had a battery issue early in its life, but they replaced it with no hassle and I haven't had it to the dealer other than oil changes and tire rotations, since. Ride, handling and braking are really good for such big heavy vehicles, too.
They're built as well as anything on the market. Fit and finish take a back seat to no brand. And, quality and look of materials have gone up significantly over the last few years.
I used mine to tow and haul quite a bit (not much of either recently, though). They are wonderful vehicles for those types of duties.
Regarding MPG....I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. If you do a lot of highway driving, it's OK. But, stop and go, a lot of in-town driving, towing? MPG gets pretty dismal. But, that's true of any manufacturer's trucks/SUVs that has lots of mass, and V8 engines.
Still, there isn't another vehicle I'd rather drive whenever the weather turns for the worst.
Still, there isn't another vehicle I'd rather drive whenever the weather turns for the worst.
I am not so sure if it will be the best car to drive when the weather is really bad. The X5 might actually be better in most snow/ice situations. All wheel drive that will transfer the power to the best wheel, and 50/50 weight distribution, plus I would bet, better handling.
I'm not an expert at knowing which would be better, but if I was forced to bet, I would go with the X5.
No the X5 is actually generally terrible in bad weather conditions because BMW puts horrible stock tires on it. Wide performance tires with a thin sidewall are very, very bad in snow and ice and that is exactly what kind of tires the X5 comes with stock.
Plus BMW uses RFTs for most of the cars and the super hard compound they use to keep the tire from going flat means you get poor traction in cold weather.
The standard wheels on the X5 are 18 inch or 19 inch wheels with a 55 series tire. That is a very narrow sidewall compared to the 75 series tire on the Tahoe and 17 inch wheels on the tahoe. The Tahoe has a 20 inch optional wheel but it is an option so you aren't forced into it. I would tell the people buying that wheel the same thing I told people buying that 20 inch sized wheel on a Range Rover.
The 20 inch wheel is a more performance oriented tire and will not do well in the snow. The tire is too wide, the sidewall too thin and the tread pattern all wrong. If you are going to use this vehicle in the snow a lot buy a second set of wheels and tires in the 17-18 inch range with dedicated snows. That will protect your expensive 20 inch wheels from being damaged and give you much better traction.
Plus AFIK the X5 doesn't have any true locking diffs and stability control no matter how good can only do so much. GM offers a true locking diff in most oft their trucks as an option and it is probably standard on the HD models. That and you have a true locking center diff using the transfer case for part-time high or part-time low range 4WD.
Wide performance tires with a thin sidewall are very, very bad in snow and ice and that is exactly what kind of tires the X5 comes with stock.
You have convinced me. I never got stuck in snow, and I couldn't make my X3 skid in snow. But, I did wonder why they wouldn't put a locking device on, just for deep snow situations. My Jeep could go through 2 feet of snow with the wheels in lock position.
The tires on my 3 Series are useless in snow, I didn't realize the RFTs were part of the problem until you explained it.....so now I got 4 snowtires for the winter.
I got a notice in the mail today concerning the settlement of a class action lawsuit filed against a mega dealer in the state of Missouri. A settlement has been reached and doc fees will be returned to everyone who purchased a car from them going back to 2003. Something about charging legal fees by someone who is not an attorney. We are eligible for refunds on 3 cars over the years at $300. to $400 each. Final approval of settlement to be 3-10-2010.
I have no idea of the repercussions this may have for other dealers in Missouri.
that is really the first person I have actually heard of, returning to American made.
Then I must be the 2nd. Had a Subaru Impreza and a VW Passat Wagon 4Motion. Traded in the Subaru for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's not perfect, but I love it, and will probably replace it with another Jeep.
For real car people RFTs as they are currently designed are some of the worst tires you can buy. You sacrifice tons of performance and the possibility of decent all season capability for the convenience of not having to change a flat. They make the cars ride rougher no matter what the suspension is changed to I don't car that BMW says they have recalibrated the suspension to make up for the RFTs. They weigh so much more then a regular tire that you aren't even really saving any weight by giving up a compact spare. You might save some weight when compared to a regular full sized spare.
All this and they cost two times, or more, as much as a regular tire of the same size.
Real bargain there. When was the last time you actually got a flat? It just doesn't happen that often on modern tires. I have gotten a flat one time in my entire life. In a worst case blow out scenario a runflat isn't even going to help you either. The sidewall will get shredded and that is the end of the tire anyway.
They do save BMW money because they don't have to put a spare in their cars anymore and since they are buying millions of tires a year they pay well below what you pay for a new set of run flats.
Add me to the list of people going from import -> domestic. 3 years ago, I traded in a 1999 Range Rover for a 2007 GMC Yukon Denali XL. I have 4 young children (ages 11-6 now) and we needed the extra seats (the Range Rover only seats 5 people). Had borrowed a friend's older (2003?) Yukon a couple of times when going away on long trips and had been impressed with it.
The Range Rover was a nice car but service costs were bleeding me dry--something expensive was constantly breaking, and the depreciation was eye-watering. Our Yukon is every bit as nice as the Range Rover with the possible exception of the carpeting--the ones in the Range Rover were a wonderful, thick wool. And the air suspension on the Range Rover was pretty cool, lowering when you parked.
I was so pleased with the Yukon that I bought it at the end of our 3-year lease back in Sept 2009. Would have considered getting a new one but there were very few differences between the 2007 and the 2009 or 2010--Bluetooth and Nav traffic were the main items I would have liked, but not enough to pay $20K more for.
It's a big vehicle--no doubt about it. You have to be careful about parking it. The back-up camera and backup sensors are a must. But it drives well and has a ton of gadgetry, most of it well-executed (a couple of tiny nits here and there). Does well in the rain and occasional snow/ice we get here in the Seattle area. The Range Rover may have been slightly more sure-footed but the Yukon is not far behind.
Real bargain there. When was the last time you actually got a flat?
I am not so sure about run flat tires, but I did have 3 flat tires in one year......about 3 years ago. Lots of people were having their roofs done that year and there were roofing nails all over the road.
But, other than that I haven't had too many flat tires in recent history. If you get a flat at the side of a highway, or in really bad weather, you might appreciate having a RFT. These days they drive right into your car while you are changing your tire.
If I had a spare in my Cabriolet I wouldn't have any trunk space, so the RFT is a necessity there.
I do agree, you probably lose a bit in ride quality, and the convenience of all season tires (which are not that great anyway), but even with RFT a bimmer still has about the best ride and handling around....and is the benchmark for that class of car.
I doubt if the RFTs were a way for bmw to save money. My guess is they are trying to make the safest, lightest, car possible, and they believe this is the way to do it.
Overall, I would prefer not to have them, but if I was to get a flat tire in the middle of no where on a freeway, on an icy freezing cold night, I would probably change my mind.
The Range Rover was a nice car but service costs were bleeding me dry
I believe the dependability for Range Rovers has improved greatly. It is unfortunate that you had so many problems with it. Other than the mechanical problems and the fact the Yukon has 6 seats it sounds like you might actually prefer the RR.
It is an interesting story though, it shows there is a need for a large 6 passenger SUV, but that has to be a pretty small market overall.
So far, I can think of about 40 to 50 people who have switched from American to Foreign, but now I have 3 who have converted the other way.
I'd draw a slightly different conclusion. There are some market segments (e.g., large SUVs, large pickups) where domestics compare quite favorably to their import competitors. I don't feel that we gave up much, if anything, going from the Range Rover to the Yukon. There are as many areas where the Yukon is a better vehicle than the RR as the reverse.
However, if I were shopping in another segment (e.g., small sport sedans), I'd be looking at BMW or Audi. In fact, we also own a BMW 328i. Can't think of a domestic competitor I'd be happy driving.
There are some market segments (e.g., large SUVs, large pickups) where domestics compare quite favorably to their import competitors
That is true, mainly because there just isn't much competition in that market from the imports. The import manufacturers haven't got to that market yet, or are choosing to ignore it...probably the latter, especially at this point in time.
In that respect, if you are looking for a large SUV or truck, you will have to buy a D3 vehicle, and they are fine vehicles if that is what someone needs or more likely "wants".
I understand what you are saying about sport sedans. I looked briefly at Cadillacs before buying our 99 Mercedes, and the 2008 bmw, but I couldn't bring myself around to buying one...I know it wouldn't be right, even just from sitting in it or looking at the interior. I am sure they have improved a lot....and Tiger seems to like his.
It was all computerized from the company that made it. The customer would have to come in to the dealership weekly with the money. If the deposit wasn't entered into the computer on time, the car would have a light come on the dashboard to let the driver know the payment was late. After another 24 hours, it wouldn't start.
I only knew of the one dealership that had this & they were extremely busy since this was one of the only options for people with extremely bad credit.
The funny thing was that people figured out a loophole. As long as the car was running, it would work fine - you just couldn't turn it off. So every now and then we'd hear of people putting gas in the cars while still running so they could make it through the day with a running car.
Here's a little story for you that will bring a clean car lover to tears. Jmonroe would have been hospitalized if it had happened to him. Last Sunday, my wife was in charge of an open house at an old historical home about an hour from where we live. Our Explorer was dirty from hauling the Christmas tree and other greenery, plus it had rained a lot in recent days. My Chrysler convertible is NEVER dirty. I rarely even drive it in the rain. It was sitting in the garage just gleaming as usual. Since she was all dressed up for her open house, she decided to drive my convertible to the event.
Later that evening, I began to wonder why she had not returned home. She soon called. There is an old cemetery about a quarter of a mile behind this historic home. My wife decided to drive down to the cemetery to look at old tombstones. To reach the cemetery, you have to take an old field road. Having had tons of rain in recent days, the old field road was very muddy. Just as she reached the cemetery, she managed to get my beautiful convertible stuck in the mud. She had seen in a movie where a man "rocked" the car back and forth to get out of the mud. Unlike Hollywood depictions, her reenactment did not work. The more she spun her wheels, the deeper the car went into the mud. Also, each time that she spun her wheels, more mud was slung onto the car, even up to the convertible top!
Now the situation gets worse. She climbs in and out of the car several times to examine the situation. Each time that she gets back into the car, she is spreading mud across the carpet. She decides to call AAA. When they arrive, they become concerned that their heavy wrecker may also get stuck in this field road mud. Still, they make the effort to pull my car out. The venture was successful.
When she finally got home and pulled into the garage, I nearly had a stroke. I could hardly recognize my beautiful vehicle. Yes, I did lose my temper. We had a one sided conversation about using good judgment in terms of rain, old field roads, clean cars, etc. Yesterday, I took my prize possession to a detail shop. They restored her to her natural beauty. There was even mud on the steering wheel and the dash. I didn't even ask how that happened.
Here is the capper to the saga. A few years ago, before we retired, I bought my wife a mink coat. She was wearing it Sunday when all of this happened. At some point during her fiasco, she slipped and fell in the mud. The mink coat had mud on it, which was also transferred to the front seat of the car. At any rate, we had to take the coat to a furrier yesterday to be cleaned. Let's see now. The detail car job was $150 plus cleaning the mink coat will be $100. That's $250 for a dumb mistake. To look on the bright side, the AAA service was free. That membership is worth every penny.
It is now Tuesday morning. Are my wife and I speaking? Of course we are. Life is too short to worry about the little things.
Returned to American made years ago. After driving Toyota pickups I found that Ford and Chevy were just as good and better in terms of what each could do in snow , carrying a load and working hard. My Toyota pickups had numerous quality problems and I could not see paying a premium for the name when the domestics were less expensive, provided more value, and overall, did a better job. I have owned both Ford and Chevy pickups over the last ten years and have not been disappointed.
Years ago, when I was a manager for Sears, I watched an incredible thing happen right before my eyes.
A work crew was blacktopping a section of our parking lot next to our battery shop.
They put down a thick slurry of soft gooey tar. It was still warm and soupy but not boiling hot. They had the area roped off.
There were probably three or four cars in our battery line having new batteries installed at the time. One of these customers was an older guy who was probably 70 years old. I watched in horror as he stepped OVER the roped off area, into the thick tar as he made his way into our Auto Center to buy a new battery.
Only, he didn't make it. He slipped and fell on his butt and back into the goo.
Then, he somehow managed to get back up on his feet. I don't think he was hurt but he looked like a tar baby. It was even in his hair!
So, what does he do? He climbs back into his car covered in sticky tar and drives away!
Later, he tries to get us to pay for his clothes and to reupholster his car!
Here's a little story for you that will bring a clean car lover to tears
I would have lost my mind. At least the detail shop was able to get it all cleaned up. It reminds me of a few years ago when they had my street torn up for a drainage project. I swear I had to clean my car every day.
Thank you for sharing that story. I feel very sorry for both you and your wife's predicament. But I have to admit I was laughing at how things just go wrong and then go "wronger" the harder one tries!!! Then the mink coat!
Having grown up on a farm in a rural area, I know all about mud and little-used lanes (don't ask how). I suspected what was going to happen when it said "old field road." I've even seen farm tractors stuck in mud in such conditions by someone who didn't understand momentum as a friend to sail through. :sick:
I was surprised that AAA would cover retrieving the car from other than a formal road. I knew that they wouldn't extract cars (for free) from beach sand because one was off the traveled roads.
I have a picture of Richard's expression when he saw his car covered in mud, from bottom to TOP. It probably exceeded mine when I came home and found Junior's current ride with a light scrape along the left read quarter panel from the school parking.
Having survived many years of marriage and disagreements, I suggest you offer to take her to visit the cemetery sometime when the ground has been dry for weeks. I too like to see what's in old cemeteries. Take the Explorer.
>So, what does he do? He climbs back into his car covered in sticky tar and drives away!
While we're telling stories, I recall working on the state highway department in the summers to pay for college. It was a fairly rural 4-county district we covered. I was working a chip-and-tar crew. Locals resented having a road closed off for a couple hours while the tar was laid down and then gravel trucks spread a ground up stone over the tar; all part of sealing a road for the winter water and ice and to give a new surface.
Saw horse type barricades were up blocking a 1 mile road off next to the state highway getting the tar and chip treatment. Locals would often drive right on through. One did that with a fairly new Chevy. Down the side road to the T. Turned right into the tar-covered highway. Right through the tar. Hot day. Hot tar. Hot head I'll bet when he found how much it splattered all over the paint as well as the underside. His car was one of the pretty blues GM had back then. At least it shouldn't have rusted where the black tar coated it. :lemon:
Your response brought something to mind that is so funny now. When my wife left home on Sunday, she looked so good---new hair do, jewelry, nice dress, mink coat, etc. When she arrived home that evening, her hair was sticking out everywhere, her high heels covered in mud up to her ankles, mink coat with mud on it, etc. She looked as bad as the car. :P After I ranted and gave my sermon for ten minutes, I suddenly realized how she looked. She obviously had been through the wringer. I heard her telling my sister about it yesterday. My sister evidently asked her how I reacted. I heard my wife say, "You don't want to know what he said."
Oldfarmer reminded me about the bumper incident with the light pole.. It's not that she doesn't like the car. She loves it. She just doesn't think before she acts. She's a good soul. People love her because she is full of good intentions and always finds the best in people. She keeps me balanced because I'm pretty suspicious of people.
My wife and I have been married for about 43 years and I love her dearly. I think I know her as well as one human being can know another one, and she is highly intelligent, but.......just like your wife, at times she can pull some doosies.
I will never understand why they can't be perfect like we are !!
Comments
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
To be fair to the buyer, Graphicguy was helping somebody else that day :P
It may seem that way from a dealer's perspective but it's entirely possible that there are more people who do accept the "blame" themselves and just don't show up at the dealership until they have their affairs in order.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
In addition to the service loaner issue, some service departments -not necessarily BMW- give sales customers preference on scheduling appointments as well. I think that coercive attitude is very short-sighted; far better to give every customer excellent service in hopes they will buy there next car from the servicing dealer.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I know some dealers have attempted to "service" me on more than one occasion.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I know the domestics used to just hate warranty work and they would put customers on the back burner who didn't buy from them.
When these young people enter the real world, their thought processes and lack of certain abilities don't change. It all translates into major adult errors. Unless they have family members or close friends to guide them, they live a low functioning life in a world that is too smart and too fast for them. It's sad to see. It's even sadder when you can predict it because you watch them from ages 15-18 struggling to survive in the academic world, and not doing much better in the social world.
Do they graduate? Yes. Why? Political correctness and the threat of litigation has now guaranteed them a high school diploma...even a college degree at some institutions. Who is to blame for this societal ill? They are school administrators, teachers, counselors, parents, government, and organizations who foster a "yes' to all complaints and a "no" to setting standards. Glad that I retired to my world of books and blogs.
End of rant.
Richard
To blame? Start with the attorneys and the state organizations who took on the causes of the "rights" of many of diminished capacity. Friends of ours have adopted and they have quickly learned that everything is given to them as part of the adoption, including organizations who will take complaints about teachers or schools not fully allowing the children to have IEPs even if they don't need one for schooling. It even includes suing if needed, in case the organization people can't bully the teachers and principals.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A concern I would have for example, would be, if I lost my keys and needed replacements. The local dealer has all my information and I am sure they could order a new one, and I could have someone drive me over when the new one came in......or these days they probably can load a new one up on the computer.
But, if I buy from a dealer who is a few hundred miles away, it might be a real hassle. Do they need to see my identification and paperwork before ordering? That is one example I can think of, but I am sure there are more. I just don't know if it is worth the problems that could come up...to buy from a dealer who is distant.
Can anyone think of an example where it created a problem.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It doesn't even have to be a mentally challenged person. I have a 30 year old relative who has run up her VISA to $10,000. She is complaining that she can only afford to make the $350 minimum payment each month, but the principle amount is not going down.
I have suggested credit councelling. They might be able to persuade the bank to make this into a regular loan at a much lower rate of interest than the current 28%.
I really think the use of credit cards, lines of credit, and how to manage money should be on the school curriculum. Maybe even how to buy and finance a car - to stay on topic.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The more reason why they shouldn't make any big financial decisions without help (supervision?). If they don't seek out that help, it's still their fault.
However, something you didn't mention was that each and every one of these folks is able to vote.
Explains a lot.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My best friend recently traded in his lease Infinitit QX56 (yes, the same QX56 that infamously towed my 1990 BMW 325iA to Long Island in my cash 4 clunkers deal) for a 2009 Tahoe. He originally leased the QX56 (15K per year lease) for his 4'10" wife who after about a year said she thought the QX was too big. The front corners of the QX were all dinged up from garages, poles... He gave her his FX35 he was leasing at the time (20K per year lease). He put 44,000 miles on the QX in about 2 years & was faced with the prospect of giving the QX back to Infiniti with a lot of miles with $6000 in over mileage charges + excess wear & tear. So he drove the Tahoe & was impressed with it. He ended up with a great price on an '09 LTZ Tahoe + he ended up "only" having $4000 in negative equity on his QX56 - the 0% financing for 72 months sealed the deal for him. He's had the Tahoe for about 6 weeks (4000 miles) & loves it.
The Tahoe is a very handsome & rugged looking truck. Gets decent gas mileage for such a lumbering vehicle with a 5.3L V8. It drives great, that's the most important thing!
The Tahoe drives great, but isn't perfect. The interior materials in the QX are head & shoulders above the Tahoe. The Infinit's 3rd row of seats fold flat into the truck, while the Tahoe's seats must be removed & stored when no in use. The QX has lots more storage nooks. The Tahoe doesn't have HID/Xenon headlights like the QX. The bumper to bumper warranty on the Tahoe is 3 yrs/36K miles (Infiniti is 4 yrs/60K miles, my Dad's X5 is 4 yrs/50K miles). He says the QX was much faster (butt dyno). I'm a car nut & can nit pick things to death sometimes. I drove my best friend's Tahoe & was very impressed with how the truck drove.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Sounds like you have done your homework, and it all makes sense.
I just know from word of mouth. My brother in law bought a new Suburban every 2 years and wouldn't even consider anything else. All of a sudden he has a Tacoma, and he said he would never go back to the GM.
We had a contractor working on the house and he had a beautiful Tacoma parked outside. I said that is a nice truck. He said, I always had GMs in the past, but I like this a lot more.
I am sure the new GM trucks are much better and lasting 5 years for a new truck won't be a problem, and I am sure your dad will like his new truck...probably more comfortable, but that is really the first person I have actually heard of, returning to American made.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
These people knew they were getting high interest loans and the point was to help re-establish their credit. But everytime they came in, the car they would be looking at on the lot was the 1 year old used Escalade or traded in Range Rover.... I never understood the mentality.
Richard
Do you ever take the car into your local dealer? Do they treat you the same as an actual customer who bought from them (probably equally badly from the sound of your opinion of them). Would you buy from a dealer 100 miles away again? Is there any downside so far?
Another related question I have is do all dealers have your information linked up by computer. If I call for service, or to have snowtires put on or removed, I give the dealer my phone number and they know what car I have and all the past history. If I have the work done at another dealer will they be hooked into the same system, or will I have to start all over again?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Richard
That's a great invention. Is that being done by most dealers today. Does it really make people pay on time? Who gets to press the button...I would like that job?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's not about understanding. It was a direct manifestation of the main cause of their low credit score, i.e. not acknowledging reality of their own financial situation.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That seems like a very good observation and well stated. Probably related observations;
* People who buy the most lottery tickets are the ones who can least afford them.
* People who keep gambling until all their money is gone shouldn't enter a casino
* People who pay the minimum balance due on their credit card should cut up their credit cards.
My own rule of thumb when buying a car and it seemed to work for some reason, was the value of the car could be up to half of a years salary. It gave me some breathing room, but was conservative enough to keep me out of trouble. I don't know if people use rules of thumb any more...like your house payments should equal 1/3 of your salary (these days it is closer to half).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No. I've heard too many horror stories. I did give my nearest Louisville dealer(Oxmoor Mazda) a shot at my parts business. I wanted a spare set of front brake pads, but the parts guy came back with a quoted price that was $57 over MSRP and $100 over the internet price offered by a couple of online Mazda dealers.
Do they treat you the same as an actual customer who bought from them (probably equally badly from the sound of your opinion of them).
That's what I'm afraid of...
Would you buy from a dealer 100 miles away again?
Only if:
1. The car was not available locally
2. My local dealer had a competent service department
Is there any downside so far?
It would be OK if I only had to take the car in for service, but I've also had three warranty issues that required multiple trips- through no fault of the dealer, I might add.
When all is said and done, I think I'm going to stay with Bimmers from now on. I have an excellent local dealer and an excellent indie BMW tech. And -thanks to BMW CCA-I also know where to get parts, who to call if I have a question, and who can help me with DIY projects if I get in over my head. At my advanced age there's a lot to be said for continuity...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I know my own '07 Tahoe has been exemplary. Had a battery issue early in its life, but they replaced it with no hassle and I haven't had it to the dealer other than oil changes and tire rotations, since. Ride, handling and braking are really good for such big heavy vehicles, too.
They're built as well as anything on the market. Fit and finish take a back seat to no brand. And, quality and look of materials have gone up significantly over the last few years.
I used mine to tow and haul quite a bit (not much of either recently, though). They are wonderful vehicles for those types of duties.
Regarding MPG....I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. If you do a lot of highway driving, it's OK. But, stop and go, a lot of in-town driving, towing? MPG gets pretty dismal. But, that's true of any manufacturer's trucks/SUVs that has lots of mass, and V8 engines.
Still, there isn't another vehicle I'd rather drive whenever the weather turns for the worst.
I am not so sure if it will be the best car to drive when the weather is really bad. The X5 might actually be better in most snow/ice situations. All wheel drive that will transfer the power to the best wheel, and 50/50 weight distribution, plus I would bet, better handling.
I'm not an expert at knowing which would be better, but if I was forced to bet, I would go with the X5.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Plus BMW uses RFTs for most of the cars and the super hard compound they use to keep the tire from going flat means you get poor traction in cold weather.
The standard wheels on the X5 are 18 inch or 19 inch wheels with a 55 series tire. That is a very narrow sidewall compared to the 75 series tire on the Tahoe and 17 inch wheels on the tahoe. The Tahoe has a 20 inch optional wheel but it is an option so you aren't forced into it. I would tell the people buying that wheel the same thing I told people buying that 20 inch sized wheel on a Range Rover.
The 20 inch wheel is a more performance oriented tire and will not do well in the snow. The tire is too wide, the sidewall too thin and the tread pattern all wrong. If you are going to use this vehicle in the snow a lot buy a second set of wheels and tires in the 17-18 inch range with dedicated snows. That will protect your expensive 20 inch wheels from being damaged and give you much better traction.
Plus AFIK the X5 doesn't have any true locking diffs and stability control no matter how good can only do so much. GM offers a true locking diff in most oft their trucks as an option and it is probably standard on the HD models. That and you have a true locking center diff using the transfer case for part-time high or part-time low range 4WD.
You have convinced me. I never got stuck in snow, and I couldn't make my X3 skid in snow. But, I did wonder why they wouldn't put a locking device on, just for deep snow situations. My Jeep could go through 2 feet of snow with the wheels in lock position.
The tires on my 3 Series are useless in snow, I didn't realize the RFTs were part of the problem until you explained it.....so now I got 4 snowtires for the winter.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have no idea of the repercussions this may have for other dealers in Missouri.
Weird, huh?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Then I must be the 2nd. Had a Subaru Impreza and a VW Passat Wagon 4Motion. Traded in the Subaru for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's not perfect, but I love it, and will probably replace it with another Jeep.
All this and they cost two times, or more, as much as a regular tire of the same size.
Real bargain there. When was the last time you actually got a flat? It just doesn't happen that often on modern tires. I have gotten a flat one time in my entire life. In a worst case blow out scenario a runflat isn't even going to help you either. The sidewall will get shredded and that is the end of the tire anyway.
They do save BMW money because they don't have to put a spare in their cars anymore and since they are buying millions of tires a year they pay well below what you pay for a new set of run flats.
The Range Rover was a nice car but service costs were bleeding me dry--something expensive was constantly breaking, and the depreciation was eye-watering. Our Yukon is every bit as nice as the Range Rover with the possible exception of the carpeting--the ones in the Range Rover were a wonderful, thick wool. And the air suspension on the Range Rover was pretty cool, lowering when you parked.
I was so pleased with the Yukon that I bought it at the end of our 3-year lease back in Sept 2009. Would have considered getting a new one but there were very few differences between the 2007 and the 2009 or 2010--Bluetooth and Nav traffic were the main items I would have liked, but not enough to pay $20K more for.
It's a big vehicle--no doubt about it. You have to be careful about parking it. The back-up camera and backup sensors are a must. But it drives well and has a ton of gadgetry, most of it well-executed (a couple of tiny nits here and there). Does well in the rain and occasional snow/ice we get here in the Seattle area. The Range Rover may have been slightly more sure-footed but the Yukon is not far behind.
I am not so sure about run flat tires, but I did have 3 flat tires in one year......about 3 years ago. Lots of people were having their roofs done that year and there were roofing nails all over the road.
But, other than that I haven't had too many flat tires in recent history. If you get a flat at the side of a highway, or in really bad weather, you might appreciate having a RFT. These days they drive right into your car while you are changing your tire.
If I had a spare in my Cabriolet I wouldn't have any trunk space, so the RFT is a necessity there.
I do agree, you probably lose a bit in ride quality, and the convenience of all season tires (which are not that great anyway), but even with RFT a bimmer still has about the best ride and handling around....and is the benchmark for that class of car.
I doubt if the RFTs were a way for bmw to save money. My guess is they are trying to make the safest, lightest, car possible, and they believe this is the way to do it.
Overall, I would prefer not to have them, but if I was to get a flat tire in the middle of no where on a freeway, on an icy freezing cold night, I would probably change my mind.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I believe the dependability for Range Rovers has improved greatly. It is unfortunate that you had so many problems with it. Other than the mechanical problems and the fact the Yukon has 6 seats it sounds like you might actually prefer the RR.
It is an interesting story though, it shows there is a need for a large 6 passenger SUV, but that has to be a pretty small market overall.
So far, I can think of about 40 to 50 people who have switched from American to Foreign, but now I have 3 who have converted the other way.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
However, if I were shopping in another segment (e.g., small sport sedans), I'd be looking at BMW or Audi. In fact, we also own a BMW 328i. Can't think of a domestic competitor I'd be happy driving.
That is true, mainly because there just isn't much competition in that market from the imports. The import manufacturers haven't got to that market yet, or are choosing to ignore it...probably the latter, especially at this point in time.
In that respect, if you are looking for a large SUV or truck, you will have to buy a D3 vehicle, and they are fine vehicles if that is what someone needs or more likely "wants".
I understand what you are saying about sport sedans. I looked briefly at Cadillacs before buying our 99 Mercedes, and the 2008 bmw, but I couldn't bring myself around to buying one...I know it wouldn't be right, even just from sitting in it or looking at the interior. I am sure they have improved a lot....and Tiger seems to like his.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I only knew of the one dealership that had this & they were extremely busy since this was one of the only options for people with extremely bad credit.
The funny thing was that people figured out a loophole. As long as the car was running, it would work fine - you just couldn't turn it off. So every now and then we'd hear of people putting gas in the cars while still running so they could make it through the day with a running car.
Later that evening, I began to wonder why she had not returned home. She soon called. There is an old cemetery about a quarter of a mile behind this historic home. My wife decided to drive down to the cemetery to look at old tombstones. To reach the cemetery, you have to take an old field road. Having had tons of rain in recent days, the old field road was very muddy. Just as she reached the cemetery, she managed to get my beautiful convertible stuck in the mud. She had seen in a movie where a man "rocked" the car back and forth to get out of the mud. Unlike Hollywood depictions, her reenactment did not work. The more she spun her wheels, the deeper the car went into the mud. Also, each time that she spun her wheels, more mud was slung onto the car, even up to the convertible top!
Now the situation gets worse. She climbs in and out of the car several times to examine the situation. Each time that she gets back into the car, she is spreading mud across the carpet. She decides to call AAA. When they arrive, they become concerned that their heavy wrecker may also get stuck in this field road mud. Still, they make the effort to pull my car out. The venture was successful.
When she finally got home and pulled into the garage, I nearly had a stroke. I could hardly recognize my beautiful vehicle. Yes, I did lose my temper. We had a one sided conversation about using good judgment in terms of rain, old field roads, clean cars, etc. Yesterday, I took my prize possession to a detail shop. They restored her to her natural beauty. There was even mud on the steering wheel and the dash. I didn't even ask how that happened.
Here is the capper to the saga. A few years ago, before we retired, I bought my wife a mink coat. She was wearing it Sunday when all of this happened. At some point during her fiasco, she slipped and fell in the mud. The mink coat had mud on it, which was also transferred to the front seat of the car. At any rate, we had to take the coat to a furrier yesterday to be cleaned. Let's see now. The detail car job was $150 plus cleaning the mink coat will be $100. That's $250 for a dumb mistake. To look on the bright side, the AAA service was free. That membership is worth every penny.
It is now Tuesday morning. Are my wife and I speaking? Of course we are. Life is too short to worry about the little things.
As my students used to write: THE END
Richard
I'm glad that both of you realize that life is too short and gotten over it quickly.
Too bad nobody had a camcorder when she got stuck. You could've won $10,000 if you sent it to America's Funniest Home Videos. :-)
Years ago, when I was a manager for Sears, I watched an incredible thing happen right before my eyes.
A work crew was blacktopping a section of our parking lot next to our battery shop.
They put down a thick slurry of soft gooey tar. It was still warm and soupy but not boiling hot. They had the area roped off.
There were probably three or four cars in our battery line having new batteries installed at the time. One of these customers was an older guy who was probably 70 years old. I watched in horror as he stepped OVER the roped off area, into the thick tar as he made his way into our Auto Center to buy a new battery.
Only, he didn't make it. He slipped and fell on his butt and back into the goo.
Then, he somehow managed to get back up on his feet. I don't think he was hurt but he looked like a tar baby. It was even in his hair!
So, what does he do? He climbs back into his car covered in sticky tar and drives away!
Later, he tries to get us to pay for his clothes and to reupholster his car!
I would have lost my mind. At least the detail shop was able to get it all cleaned up. It reminds me of a few years ago when they had my street torn up for a drainage project. I swear I had to clean my car every day.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Having grown up on a farm in a rural area, I know all about mud and little-used lanes (don't ask how). I suspected what was going to happen when it said "old field road." I've even seen farm tractors stuck in mud in such conditions by someone who didn't understand momentum as a friend to sail through. :sick:
I was surprised that AAA would cover retrieving the car from other than a formal road. I knew that they wouldn't extract cars (for free) from beach sand because one was off the traveled roads.
I have a picture of Richard's expression when he saw his car covered in mud, from bottom to TOP. It probably exceeded mine when I came home and found Junior's current ride with a light scrape along the left read quarter panel from the school parking.
Having survived many years of marriage and disagreements, I suggest you offer to take her to visit the cemetery sometime when the ground has been dry for weeks. I too like to see what's in old cemeteries. Take the Explorer.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
While we're telling stories, I recall working on the state highway department in the summers to pay for college. It was a fairly rural 4-county district we covered. I was working a chip-and-tar crew. Locals resented having a road closed off for a couple hours while the tar was laid down and then gravel trucks spread a ground up stone over the tar; all part of sealing a road for the winter water and ice and to give a new surface.
Saw horse type barricades were up blocking a 1 mile road off next to the state highway getting the tar and chip treatment. Locals would often drive right on through. One did that with a fairly new Chevy. Down the side road to the T. Turned right into the tar-covered highway. Right through the tar. Hot day. Hot tar. Hot head I'll bet when he found how much it splattered all over the paint as well as the underside. His car was one of the pretty blues GM had back then. At least it shouldn't have rusted where the black tar coated it. :lemon:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
First the bumper, now the mud bath. Does your wife have something against this particular car?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I'll have to try that. The salt is a killer up here in the northeast.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Oldfarmer reminded me about the bumper incident with the light pole.. It's not that she doesn't like the car. She loves it. She just doesn't think before she acts. She's a good soul. People love her because she is full of good intentions and always finds the best in people. She keeps me balanced because I'm pretty suspicious of people.
Richard
I will never understand why they can't be perfect like we are !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460