may be gunning for Honda & Toyota, but it'll take years for them to nurture the reputation that drives the kind of loyalty that our family has developed for Honda.
Friday we had a gathering of a dozen or so of us at a local park. Someone pointed out that we had six Honda products lined up in a row. My TSX was the newest and my #3 son's '89 Accord (with almost 400K miles) was the eldest. In between were my daughter's '92 Prelude, #2 son's '04 CRV, #1 son's '07 Odyssey and mother-in-law's red Civic. Yeah, I know, we should have all come in two, or at the most, three vehicles, but that's not the kind of logistics that work out in our world.
Speculation (or hope ). I have had this happen to me in a Ford and a Mazda before they had the hooks. Meaning, the floormats can interfere with the pedals. It can happen to any car under the right circumstances. Use the hooks, and use one mat, you will be fine. Too bad lots of people are hoping and praying that it is something else. :sick:
Sales will be slightly decreased as a result of this, but recalls like the Ford cruise control causing cars to go up in flames even while turned off doesn't seem to have caused too much damage for Ford, AND I AM HAPPY THAT IT DIDN'T.
Here is a little story that will make your day brighter. While visiting with my sister and brother-in-law during Thanksgiving, he announced to me that he had just traded in his 2000 Lexus. He loved his Lexus so much that I figured that he bought a new one. Not so. He bought a new Honda Accord.
Since my sister owns two Honda Pilots, she suggested that he take a test drive in an Accord just to see how he liked it. He loved it. He purchased one with all of the options. He told me that, even with all of the options, he saved $15k-$20k over buying another Lexus. He claims that the ride and comfort of the Accord is every bit as good as that of the Lexus. I wouldn't know because I have never compared them. I'm just happy that he is happy.
There are a couple of pending rebate-related questions in the Rebates & Incentives discussion. If anyone has time & can help, it'd be much appreciated by the members.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Thanks for guarding the grammar hen house while I was on vacation. Your pet peeve is one that I see often. While catching up on post reading this morning, I spotted another error in several of the posts. Writers often use the article "a" when they need to use the article "an". When a word begins with a vowel, the article "an" should be used. Examples: The car has AN automatic transmission. The truck made AN unusually loud noise. The dealer gave AN estimate on the trade value.
Like yours, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Another one is using "your" for "you're". We have discussed that error here before. I don't see it now as much as I did.
It is not a problem if you use the hooks and don't stack mats on top of mats. This has to be the most overblown story of the year.
I tend to agree with that mcdogg. I can't really see what the big stink is about based on just photos. Would like to take a good look at the floor mats and gas pedal of the Camry. A few people not using common sense... cost Toyota millions to recall. :sick:
I drove one of the affected cars for 3 years with a factory floor mat in the anchors and GASP!!! another thin plastic floor mat on top. Not one time did the pedal get caught or even anywhere close.
People need to use a little common sense. FWIW the people that lost their lives in the runaway Lexus ES350 had a factory carpet mat with a thick all weather mat from a RX400H SUV installed on top. Toyota shouldn't be at fault the person who would put a floor mat designed for another vehicle in should. Especially considering that there was a recall for the all weather mats specifically stating not to put them on top of the carpet mats.
God forbid that anyone would actually take responsibility for their own actions and safety ! The Audi deal was a big deal about nothing and so is this. IMO.
Toyota shouldn't be at fault the person who would put a floor mat designed for another vehicle in should. Especially considering that there was a recall for the all weather mats specifically stating not to put them on top of the carpet mats.
Happy to hear from someone who has some sense!! (Or doesn't hate Toyota!)
Actually, the original All weather mats had instructions that specifically said to remove any other mat, and secure the mat with the two hooks. Guess what, the owner's manual says the same thing! Unfortunately, that's not good enough in today's society. :sick: Oh, by the way, I still have those original mats - 3+ years old, no problems, never move at all.
I think they are the victim of a system that discourages taking personal responsibility.
A few years ago Honda took a lot of heat when some CRV's were catching on fire after having their oil changed. Not many fires happened but there were a few.
Come to find out, some of the people who were doing the oil changes weren't checking to make sure the oil rubber gasket wasn't stuck to the mounting flange.
They mounted the new filter on top of the rubber gasket whenic created a leak that in some cases resulted in a fire when the oil hit the hot exhaust.
Anyone who changes oil should know this can happen on any car.
But, no, in the minds of some, it HAD to be Honda's fault.
The filters were changed a bit and people were reminded to wife off the flange before installing the new filter and the problems ended.
God forbid that anyone would actually take responsibility for their own actions and safety ! The Audi deal was a big deal about nothing and so is this. IMO.
Exactly.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I was looking at the Subaru of Richmond (VA) website and they give their 2010 Forester's an "internet discount" that brings their price below edmund's TMV and invoice price. What gives? They can't be trying to get rid of these already. What am I not seeing? Hidden fees? D&H maybe?
Actually, I remembered they were both doctors and are in a high income bracket. I was kind of joking that they would have to budget because of the economy, people in certain professions, and many retired people with a pension plan are not hit with the economic downturn.
I think what they did experience in the Accord is "the feel of the road". The ride won't be as soft, the steering a little firmir, possibly more hp.
From what I read the Accord should be just as good as the Accura, it will have more passenger and trunk space, so just depends on priorities.
They should have let you try the Accord, you might prefer one next time, especially if they come out with a convertible model.
Wow! You had a neat idea...an Accord convertible. I could go for that one.
Actually, my brother-in-law doesn't have the intense interest in cars as you and I do. He and my sister just buy a car when they get an itch. Someone mentioned Honda to them a couple of years ago and they have seemed to just jump on the band wagon. They, like so many people, don't do much research or test drive many cars. An example of this is the fact that my brother-in-law bragged about getting $5k for his Lexus trade-in. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but I did the research. He should have gotten $7.5k at least. As I was pointing this out to my wife, she made an interesting observation. She said that he was a busy 78 year old doctor who just wouldn't spend the time to save an extra $2.5k. I can understand it.
For his age, he is in great shape. He won gold and silver medals in the state Senior Olympics last year...broad jump and track. My sister is 71 but looks to be in her late 40's. They both have good genes. They are closing the doors this summer and retiring. They deserve it. My sister says that the Medicare and Medicaid payments to doctors are getting smaller each month. She also says that insurance companies are becoming too difficult to deal with these days. It's such a shame when we need really good medical care.
Hey - this discussion is for salespeople to share their selling stories. You'll get better feedback on this specific vehicle in our Subaru Forester Prices Paid discussion.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
just wouldn't spend the time to save an extra $2.5k.
It's hard for us ordinary people to realize that when you make $1000 or $2000 a day, it just isn't worth it to worry about spending a little extra - like $2.5 thousand -every few years when you trade in your car.
There is probably a good little job waiting there for somebody like GG who could do all the negotiating for people who don't have the time to haggle. At least these people would appreciate his efforts, and would save a lot overall.
GG, there's an idea, buying cars for the rich and famous - who don't have the patience to wheel and deal.
Richard, your brother must be a salespersons dream, when he comes through the door.
I hate to tell you driver, but there are many brokers set up just to do that - get cars for the rich and famous. Usually the brokers work with the rich and famous persons's agent. I did sell one car to a MLB star that started with a broker but ended with a direct purchase. he turned out to be the nicest down to earth person you ever met.
Well, seems a little slow around here today. Kiss of death is to ask for sales stories, so maybe these sales figures will lead to some comments. These numbers are the sales in Canada, for November 2009.
Sales for November 2009 were as follows:
Winners
Acura: 941 units (up 3.0%) Audi: 1,086 units (up 47.4%) BMW: 2,083 units (up 13.6%) Hyundai: 7,022 units (up 26.2%) Infiniti: 563 units (up 25.1%) Jaguar: 50 units (up 25.0%) Kia: 3,464 units (up 28.2%) Land Rover: 196 units (up 38.0%) Lexus: 1,284 units (up 11.5%) Mazda: 5,117 units (up 1.9%) Mercedes-Benz: 2,071 units (up 26.4%) Nissan: 4,749 units (up 6.0%) Porsche: 125 units (up 8.7%) Subaru: 2,215 units (up 50.4%) Toyota: 14,829 units (up 27.4%) Volkswagen: 3,190 units (up 12.3%) Volvo: 484 units (up 2.3%) Losers
Chrysler: 11,418 units (down 26.2%) Ford: 15,895 units (down 1.3%) General Motors: 14,958 units (down 29.6%) Honda: 7,955 units (down 4.3%) MINI: 346 units (down 3.4%) Mitsubishi: 1,174 units (down 8.8%) Saab: 25 units (down 71.3%) smart: 169 units (down 4.5%) Suzuki: 713 units (down 23.7%)
Well, the message here appears to be that if the government takes over your automobile company, Canadians (like me) don't want to buy your cars.
Go figure.
Encouraging to see how many ups there are. I work with aerospace castings, which are long-lead items, and monthly spend on them went up the first time in over a year last month. The economy appears to be recovering, in spite of the government's best efforts.
Well except that the Core GM brands were all up in the US at least. I can't imagine Canada was all that different but strangely GM isn't broken out by brand in those numbers.
Perhaps more interesting is the fact that all four core brands of General Motors (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC) posted positive sales numbers last month, and in the case of Buick rose 14.78 percent. Ford also continued to stay positive, but just barely posting 2.02 percent gain for the brand against a 0.04 decrease for the motor company. You can blame that on Lincoln and Mercury, both of which were down.
Yup so maybe even if you do get bailed out by the gov't you can still sell cars if you have some good cars. Chrysler was so screwed over by Merc and then Cerberus was so clueless they have nothing to sell.
A couple of the Jeeps are still good but other then that they have no good cars that will sell in any volume.
i am honored to being able to post where there are so many with such a sense of personal responsibility. richard is the only one to admit he drove at speeds over the posted limit. common sense says read the sign and don't exceed it. i wish i could say they same about myself. so, how many of you check the tire pressure or the installation of the floor mats before driving a new car or one that is not yours? basically, how many do a 'pilot check' before driving a car for the first time? i'm waiting. :P
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
When I picked up my latest new Camry, I had a tire pressure gauge with me and I checked it before I signed anything or pulled off the lot :P . On my purchase about 3 years ago, all 4 tires were 3 lbs below the mfg. pressure on the door jamb. I had the dealer correct it before I drove away. I check the mats on my rentals, and I look at all 4 tires before getting in. Now, looking isn't the best, because a tire still could be low without looking low, but I can see a tire that is excessively low. I do a quick walk around every time I get in my or my rental cars looking for problems like this. I frequently am behind a car that I can see at least one tire that is way too low. Why do I check the mats? Because of my experience years ago with the Mazda and the Ford.
How many people check their own tires - I'd guess less than 10%, and that's why the manufacturers had to install the tire pressure monitoring systems.
I am very safety conscious - that's part of my paid job.
I do exceed the speed limit on the limited access highways by 7 mph - not enough to be pulled over (NEVER been pulled over for anything), and not at all excessive to be considered too unsafe. Unsafe are the people doing 15+ mph more than anyone else. Oh, and 7mph over is really only 5 over, because my speedometers read about 2mph slower than actual (Toyota and most manufactures do that on purpose).
you admit you exceed the speed limit, so cut out the lectures. you don't get to decide what is safe(+7) (NOT ENOUGH TO GET CAUGHT) and what is not(+15). sorry, any cred you had in gone. we do have something in common, including checking that our new cars, and others we drive, are in spec in some areas.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I thought of Richard and his unfortunate interactions with representatives of the State(s) as I hurried at 8 mph over on the way back from Michigan last Saturday. It made the trip go faster and was easier driving. It was either bobble in and out of the right lane and go 65-70 or go a little more and spend more time in the left lane without being a LLC in eyes of most who wanted to go faster.
Yes, I am honest, I do exceed it by 5 mph on limited access highways - not statistically unsafe enough for ME. Would I advise anyone to do that - no. Would I do 10+ over - NO, then the delta is too great, and that's where it gets too unsafe for ME. We all have to take more responsibility for ourselves and stop blaming everyone else. If I am in an accident caused by being 5mph over, then I'll gladly take the blame for it.
Also, I am not hoping or praying for any car manufacturer to screw up, and I don't understand the mentality of those that obviously do.
Comments
LOL, now you sound like Popeye !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Not taking Richard's job away, but this is a pet peeve of mine. It is "I must've" rather than "I must of."
Back to your regular programming now.
Friday we had a gathering of a dozen or so of us at a local park. Someone pointed out that we had six Honda products lined up in a row. My TSX was the newest and my #3 son's '89 Accord (with almost 400K miles) was the eldest. In between were my daughter's '92 Prelude, #2 son's '04 CRV, #1 son's '07 Odyssey and mother-in-law's red Civic. Yeah, I know, we should have all come in two, or at the most, three vehicles, but that's not the kind of logistics that work out in our world.
Korea may get there, but it'll take awhile.
Really! He should of known! :P :P :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Sales will be slightly decreased as a result of this, but recalls like the Ford cruise control causing cars to go up in flames even while turned off doesn't seem to have caused too much damage for Ford, AND I AM HAPPY THAT IT DIDN'T.
There is still the "Korean Car" stigma.
As used cars, they just don't sell. They "no sale" at the auctions.
Since my sister owns two Honda Pilots, she suggested that he take a test drive in an Accord just to see how he liked it. He loved it. He purchased one with all of the options. He told me that, even with all of the options, he saved $15k-$20k over buying another Lexus. He claims that the ride and comfort of the Accord is every bit as good as that of the Lexus. I wouldn't know because I have never compared them. I'm just happy that he is happy.
Richard
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Like yours, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Another one is using "your" for "you're". We have discussed that error here before. I don't see it now as much as I did.
Richard
He probably preferred the handling and feel of the road compared to the softness of the Lexus.
The real test would be to now compare an Accura to an Accord.
Or, maybe he was satisfied to leave it at that in this economy, he can move up to an Accura when things get better.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's OK as most people these days are half fast drivers any way.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I tend to agree with that mcdogg. I can't really see what the big stink is about based on just photos. Would like to take a good look at the floor mats and gas pedal of the Camry. A few people not using common sense... cost Toyota millions to recall. :sick:
People need to use a little common sense. FWIW the people that lost their lives in the runaway Lexus ES350 had a factory carpet mat with a thick all weather mat from a RX400H SUV installed on top. Toyota shouldn't be at fault the person who would put a floor mat designed for another vehicle in should. Especially considering that there was a recall for the all weather mats specifically stating not to put them on top of the carpet mats.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Richard
I'm proud to now be one of those.
Richard
But waht I think OF was saying requires one to say 'half fast' quickly! :P
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
'half a**ed'
i would be interested in what else he test drove.
Happy to hear from someone who has some sense!! (Or doesn't hate Toyota!)
Actually, the original All weather mats had instructions that specifically said to remove any other mat, and secure the mat with the two hooks. Guess what, the owner's manual says the same thing! Unfortunately, that's not good enough in today's society. :sick: Oh, by the way, I still have those original mats - 3+ years old, no problems, never move at all.
I think they are the victim of a system that discourages taking personal responsibility.
A few years ago Honda took a lot of heat when some CRV's were catching on fire after having their oil changed. Not many fires happened but there were a few.
Come to find out, some of the people who were doing the oil changes weren't checking to make sure the oil rubber gasket wasn't stuck to the mounting flange.
They mounted the new filter on top of the rubber gasket whenic created a leak that in some cases resulted in a fire when the oil hit the hot exhaust.
Anyone who changes oil should know this can happen on any car.
But, no, in the minds of some, it HAD to be Honda's fault.
The filters were changed a bit and people were reminded to wife off the flange before installing the new filter and the problems ended.
Exactly.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I remember that O-ring thing with the CRV - and I agree, it was a similar situation. Some people were screaming (hoping) that it was Honda's fault.
Richard
Richard
What am I not seeing? Hidden fees? D&H maybe?
here is a link to show what i'm talking about:
Subaru of Richmond
Actually, I remembered they were both doctors and are in a high income bracket.
I was kind of joking that they would have to budget because of the economy, people in certain professions, and many retired people with a pension plan are not hit with the economic downturn.
I think what they did experience in the Accord is "the feel of the road". The ride won't be as soft, the steering a little firmir, possibly more hp.
From what I read the Accord should be just as good as the Accura, it will have more passenger and trunk space, so just depends on priorities.
They should have let you try the Accord, you might prefer one next time, especially if they come out with a convertible model.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Actually, my brother-in-law doesn't have the intense interest in cars as you and I do. He and my sister just buy a car when they get an itch. Someone mentioned Honda to them a couple of years ago and they have seemed to just jump on the band wagon. They, like so many people, don't do much research or test drive many cars. An example of this is the fact that my brother-in-law bragged about getting $5k for his Lexus trade-in. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but I did the research. He should have gotten $7.5k at least. As I was pointing this out to my wife, she made an interesting observation. She said that he was a busy 78 year old doctor who just wouldn't spend the time to save an extra $2.5k. I can understand it.
For his age, he is in great shape. He won gold and silver medals in the state Senior Olympics last year...broad jump and track. My sister is 71 but looks to be in her late 40's. They both have good genes. They are closing the doors this summer and retiring. They deserve it. My sister says that the Medicare and Medicaid payments to doctors are getting smaller each month. She also says that insurance companies are becoming too difficult to deal with these days. It's such a shame when we need really good medical care.
Richard
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
It's hard for us ordinary people to realize that when you make $1000 or $2000 a day, it just isn't worth it to worry about spending a little extra - like $2.5 thousand -every few years when you trade in your car.
There is probably a good little job waiting there for somebody like GG who could do all the negotiating for people who don't have the time to haggle. At least these people would appreciate his efforts, and would save a lot overall.
GG, there's an idea, buying cars for the rich and famous - who don't have the patience to wheel and deal.
Richard, your brother must be a salespersons dream, when he comes through the door.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
OK then, how about negotiating for the poor and unknown then?
I guess they can just buy the Jipst Method :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Really? And when is this going to happen? :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
richard64, I would consider you a moderately fast drive now.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The sooner, the better.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
One of teh veterans and a super nice guy. He emailed me out of the blue. semi retired and doing well!
Sales for November 2009 were as follows:
Winners
Acura: 941 units (up 3.0%)
Audi: 1,086 units (up 47.4%)
BMW: 2,083 units (up 13.6%)
Hyundai: 7,022 units (up 26.2%)
Infiniti: 563 units (up 25.1%)
Jaguar: 50 units (up 25.0%)
Kia: 3,464 units (up 28.2%)
Land Rover: 196 units (up 38.0%)
Lexus: 1,284 units (up 11.5%)
Mazda: 5,117 units (up 1.9%)
Mercedes-Benz: 2,071 units (up 26.4%)
Nissan: 4,749 units (up 6.0%)
Porsche: 125 units (up 8.7%)
Subaru: 2,215 units (up 50.4%)
Toyota: 14,829 units (up 27.4%)
Volkswagen: 3,190 units (up 12.3%)
Volvo: 484 units (up 2.3%)
Losers
Chrysler: 11,418 units (down 26.2%)
Ford: 15,895 units (down 1.3%)
General Motors: 14,958 units (down 29.6%)
Honda: 7,955 units (down 4.3%)
MINI: 346 units (down 3.4%)
Mitsubishi: 1,174 units (down 8.8%)
Saab: 25 units (down 71.3%)
smart: 169 units (down 4.5%)
Suzuki: 713 units (down 23.7%)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Go figure.
Encouraging to see how many ups there are. I work with aerospace castings, which are long-lead items, and monthly spend on them went up the first time in over a year last month. The economy appears to be recovering, in spite of the government's best efforts.
Perhaps more interesting is the fact that all four core brands of General Motors (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC) posted positive sales numbers last month, and in the case of Buick rose 14.78 percent. Ford also continued to stay positive, but just barely posting 2.02 percent gain for the brand against a 0.04 decrease for the motor company. You can blame that on Lincoln and Mercury, both of which were down.
link title
Brand Volume% Nov-13 Nov-12 DSR*% DSR Nov-09 DSR Nov-08
Hyundai 45.91 28,045 19,221 58.60 1,219 769
Nissan 29.94 50,644 38,974 41.24 2,202 1,559
Subaru 23.95 16,988 13,706 34.72 739 548
Mercedes-Benz 19.11 16,797 14,102 29.47 730 564
Kia 18.27 17,955 15,182 28.55 781 607
Porsche 18.00 1,626 1,378 28.26 71 55
Buick 14.78 8,627 7,516 24.76 375 301
Lexus 14.04 18,500 16,223 23.95 804 649
Volkswagen 13.68 16,250 14,295 23.56 707 572
Acura 11.17 8,769 7,888 20.84 381 316
Cadillac 10.28 9,721 8,815 19.87 423 353
GMC 5.38 21,301 20,214 14.54 926 809
Volvo 5.15 4,631 4,404 14.30 201 176
Chevrolet 4.46 100,023 95,756 13.54 4,349 3,830
BMW 3.23 15,708 15,217 12.20 683 609
Ford 2.02 105,133 103,055 10.89 4,571 4,122
Toyota 0.98 115,200 114,084 9.76 5,009 4,563
Mazda 0.86 14,255 14,134 9.63 620 565
Audi 0.32 6,810 6,788 9.05 296 272
Ehh that formatting didn't come out so well just click on the link.
Some of the newer GM stuff really is pretty good, based on my National rent-a-car experience.
A couple of the Jeeps are still good but other then that they have no good cars that will sell in any volume.
richard is the only one to admit he drove at speeds over the posted limit.
common sense says read the sign and don't exceed it.
i wish i could say they same about myself.
so, how many of you check the tire pressure or the installation of the floor mats before driving a new car or one that is not yours?
basically, how many do a 'pilot check' before driving a car for the first time?
i'm waiting. :P
How many people check their own tires - I'd guess less than 10%, and that's why the manufacturers had to install the tire pressure monitoring systems.
I am very safety conscious - that's part of my paid job.
I do exceed the speed limit on the limited access highways by 7 mph - not enough to be pulled over (NEVER been pulled over for anything), and not at all excessive to be considered too unsafe. Unsafe are the people doing 15+ mph more than anyone else. Oh, and 7mph over is really only 5 over, because my speedometers read about 2mph slower than actual (Toyota and most manufactures do that on purpose).
Any other questions? Still waiting for something?
sorry, any cred you had in gone.
we do have something in common, including checking that our new cars, and others we drive, are in spec in some areas.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, I am not hoping or praying for any car manufacturer to screw up, and I don't understand the mentality of those that obviously do.