When you're financially prepared to handle repair costs, they're a lot less frightening.
I agree with that and I told this tale a while back but since we hit on it again, I’ll tell about the jmonroe method of forced savings for an unexpected repair.
It all started when we bought our first house (a new one, two years after we were married) and it needed EVERY appliance known to man. The salesman tried to sell us an extended warranty on all of them but I refused. When we walked out of the place Mrs. jmonroe said, “why didn’t you buy the extended warranty, didn’t you hear the salesman say how much a refrigerator compressor would cost to replace after the regular warranty expired”? I said, “I don’t think we can afford it” and she said, “I don’t think we can afford not to have it”? So I said, “OK, lets put that amount of money into an account for when the time comes that we need to repair any of these appliances”.
Long story short, every time for many years after that we would put into that account the amount that an extended warranty would cost. I proved my point many times over years ago but she would always put money into that account when we bought anything that had an extended warranty offered on it. When we bought cars that really upped the account. However, she drew the line when we bought a cordless phone/ answering machine about 5 years ago that would have upped the account by something like $6.72. She said, “I’m not going to do that and put up with that lady at the bank saying (when she sees the account number for that account), “oh how nice, you bought another appliance, what did you get this time”? I never told her to explain what the account was for but you know how the ladies like to talk. :confuse:
That account has grown to the point where we could buy a pretty decent 2 or 3 year old used car but fortunately so far we’ve just let it sit there. If it weren’t for the bank sending me a statement every year telling me how much I have to report to the IRS on my 1040 form for the whopping interest I’ve made, I wouldn’t even remember I had that account because she makes all of the deposits.
I’m going to have to ask our poster buddy ‘snake’ if he can recommend a way I can weasel out of claiming that interest. It’s killing me every year when I have to pay for that account because it wasn’t supposed to be used for that. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
> I never told her to explain what the account was for but you know how the ladies like to talk.
Oh, oooooh. You're in trouble now! Grin.
Actually I bought an extended warranty on the two electronically controlled devices we bought recently, washer and dryer. I read enough on the appliance repair sites on the internet to decide I didn't want to troubleshoot the circuit boards and sensors if I didn't have to do so. It was a minor amount of money for 5-years via Lowes including the one-year Whirlpool guarantee and adding to it.
Most people will not incur the AMT. I do over 125 returns a year and I rarely see AMT. So unless you make a lot of money tax free municipal bonds will not cause AMT.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I admitted it myself - I'm not that practical, either. However, I recognize my "vice" for what it is. I like newer cars. I like change. I like to keep up with the "stuff". My motto has always been that people can do what they want as long as they understand what they are doing.
Don't get me wrong - there are some great deals out there and with low interest loans, upfront discounts and good resale values of some brands it is entirely plausible that buying may sometimes turn to be not as costly as in other cases. But self-delusions are one of my pet peeves. Just like when I heard five years ago what a great investment house was (and everybody was a real estate genius), I also cringe when hearing those too good to be true stories about somebody getting new cars often and not losing a penny in the process with their used cars increasing their values and dealers preactically paying them to take the new cars.
I owned a Topaz back around 91-93 IIRC so it's entirely possible to spend more on repairs than on payments
I liked reading your post because it sounds exactly like my friends car. I would say for 2 years of repair costs, he could have bought half a new car, that could last for 10 years....but after 2 years he just had a pile of rusting metal worth nothing.
Sometimes it is better to trade in before investing too much in an old lemon. I think it is like "gambling"....if I just do one more $500 repair I'll get through another 2 years of driving, but quite often it is another $500 and another. The lemon keeps going down in value and the newer car keeps getting more expensive. Here's my new chart New Fusion $25,000 after 10 years value $3000 Buy new Fusion $50,000 Diff $47000 and car cost $2200 a year to drive (plus repairs) New`Fusion to cost $47000 after trade in. OR New Fusion $25,000 after 5 years value $10,000 Buy new Fusion $30,000 Diff $20,000 and car cost $3000 a year to drive (fewer repairs). New Fusion will cost $30000-$10000=$20000 which is much easier to handle than $47000 unless you are a really good saver.
I am not an accountant or bookkeeper, but the savings from trying to keep an old lemon going are not worth it to me...even a fairly good car is questionable, in my opinion. And as noted, there's safety features to consider if you trade after 5 years instead of waiting 10 years.
Just like when I heard five years ago what a great investment house was (and everybody was a real estate genius),
I agree, I don't go for slick stories about how to make lots of money fast. But, I think sometimes people assume the longer you keep a car, the more you will save. I just think sometimes, you are actually further ahead, trading in more often. Even though it might cost a little more, the extra safety and reliability might be worth it.
My figures in the last post might be out a bit, but i would rather pay more and drive a safer more dependable car. And that isn't just fulfilling an urge to buy a new car.
I think it's more about pricing risk, time, aggravation and other intangibles than anything else. If buying new often was financially sound, poor people should drive new cars. They don't - because it requires money that they don't have. It's that simple. Instead they have to tolerate risk of car not starting in the morning.
However, people who are more well off, other priorities kick in, such as value of time, improved safety. Reliability? Well maintained car from good brand has a lot of life left at 60K - statistically that is. On individual basis it actually may not - which brings us to individual's decision.
Bottom line - if one has money to spend there is nothing wrong with trading more often. If one want more money on their retirement account or emergency fund, they have to assign less monetary value to their time or "peace of mind".
Here's my new chart New Fusion $25,000 after 10 years value $3000 Buy new Fusion $50,000 Diff $47000 and car cost $2200 a year to drive (plus repairs) New`Fusion to cost $47000 after trade in. OR New Fusion $25,000 after 5 years value $10,000 Buy new Fusion $30,000 Diff $20,000 and car cost $3000 a year to drive (fewer repairs). New Fusion will cost $30000-$10000=$20000 which is much easier to handle than $47000 unless you are a really good saver.
Here is where you math is applied incorrectly - your time frames are not comparable. In order to have comparable cycles of ownership, you have to go from begining of first to end of last. Your first ownership cycle cycle is 2*10 = 20 years (from begining of first car to end of last car), your second cycle is only 2*5 = 10 years. You have to rougly tripple your second number (from first car to end of fourth car) to get into comparable frame of reference - and that doesn't even include additional taxes and interest paid for new cars. :P
AMT, alternative minimum tax, is always in play on tax free investments.
imid....Been bit by that more than a few times. I use TurboTax. As soon as I get near the end of my return, and I'm feeling pretty good about my tax situation.....WHAMO...AMT rears its ugly head.
Thanks for the advice on the Benz. Took it for a test drive last night. It is all that and more. It's a tank, no doubt. Built extremely well....built like Mercedes used to be known for.
Slipped it over to the dealer closest to me, and who's done most of the recent service. One of the techs recognized it. Asked about its condition. He gave it a total "thumbs up". Happened to wander the lot to see what a new E series cost while the tech was looking at the '98. They're well into the $50k-$60K range. One of the SMs approached me. He thought the '98 looked familiar.
I explained the situation to how I came to drive it. He knew my friend. My friend and his wife had already put a down payment on a new E that's being delivered to the dealership in a few weeks. He said they wanted to trade it in. The SM didn't give me an exact number but said it was in that $5K range, which "Boom" pegged it.
I drove it back to my friend. It really is a very nice car. I don't need it. Sure do like it, though. Handles very well for such a big car, especially one that's 10 years old. No squeaks, groans, screeches or rattles. It tracks straight. Brakes feel good. Tranny is smooth and quick shifting. Steering and suspension is still tight. Must have had a recent under hood cleaning because it looks way cleaner than the way a 10 year old engine bay should look. Didn't get a chance to go over all the service receipts, but he put together a binder with all of them cataloged. Didn't see any obvious signs of body or paint work.
I offered my friend $6K for it. He balked a little. Didn't counter me, either. Said he'd put it in the newspaper to see what kind of bite he'd get on it. If he doesn't get any bites between $7K-$8K, he said he'd sell it to me for $6K. Nothing wrong with that. To me, it's a great deal at $6K. Anything above that, I wouldn't be interested.
If the dealership was somewhere around $5K, and I'm at $6K, I figure he's ahead of the game with a quick sale to me. If he can get more than that (which he might), more power to him. It's Christmas time. People are spending money on gifts. I was hoping he'd take the quick sale cash I offered.
Knowing that if anything does goes wrong with it, it will be a hefty hit to my wallet. But, there's nothing obvious or imminent that seems like it would fail. Still, it's a 10 year old car. Repair bills could quickly exceed the purchase price if something goes sideways.
If interested, I'll keep you posted.
On a separate note, my son just got a recall notice on his Elantra. Control arms need to be replaced, since the original ones are prone to rust and fail. That could be catastrophic if they fail while the car is on the road. Strange, this is 6 years after the fact. But, Hyundai must have seen enough of them fail to issue a recall. That fix can't be cheap for Hyundai.
Option 1: 2 Fusions kept 10 years. Worth 3K at end of the periods at end of 10 years, 25K+(25K-3K)-3K=46K. Extra maintence/repair beyond 5 years: $1000/year*2*5 years = 10K. TOTAL: $56K
Option 2: 4 Fusions, kept 5 years. Each worth $10 K after 5 years 25K+(25K-10K)*3-10K = $60K.
So looks like a wash. However:
1. Add interest, taxes to each transaction. Option 1 pulls ahead, say by 5+ grand. 2. Add possibility of dropping collision/comprehensive insurance at year 9 and 10. Option 1 pulls ahead by thousand or so. 3. Add uncertainty of maintenance repair costs. Can be less, can be much more. Option 2 gains some ground if you are risk averse, but it could actually be the opposite if you like playing odds.
Bottom line - it's always money that you can't see at first glance (extra costs not advertised) that actually make that difference. Just like with house (people "forgot" cost of the interest or realtor when they told you how much money they "made" on their last house), boat and other large items. Marketers have been very successful into focusing peoples' minds into narrow aspects of costs and disregarding others.
I must add - 10 grand for 5 yo Fusion seems a bit optimistic to me. The differences can be smaller or greater depending on mostly on the brand (depreciation and reliability).
You have to rougly tripple your second number (from first car to end of fourth car)
I accept that my calculations are not very accurate, but I am not sure which second number has to be tripled. What I am really trying to say is, if you have a really bad lemon, that will need lots of repairs, it might be worth paying, an additional $1000 or $2000 a year, to drive a safer more dependable car - IF - you have the income to be able to do it.
You might even come out well ahead if you buy a good one or two year old car, which really lowers the hit on depreciation.
The concept just says, an older car that is continually breaking down might appear to be cheaper transportation, but you might be spending more on repairs, than the car is worth....AND that money might be better spent, paying down a newer car.
The concept just says, an older car that is continually breaking down might appear to be cheaper transportation, but you might be spending more on repairs, than the car is worth....AND that money might be better spent, paying down a newer car
The major fallacy here is older cars DO NOT CONTINUALLY break down. Some do, most don't. Most OCCASIONALLY break down, which is a very big difference. $500-1000 repair every 12-24 months is not CONTINUALLY.
Option 1: 2 Fusions kept 10 years. Worth 3K at end of the periods at end of 10 years, 25K+(25K-3K)-3K=46K. Extra maintence/repair beyond 5 years: $1000/year*2*5 years = 10K. TOTAL: $56K
Option 2: 4 Fusions, kept 5 years. Each worth $10 K after 5 years 25K+(25K-10K)*3-10K = $60K.
Dino, you are a genius! Do you happen to do wills too? You put my mess of thoughts and figures and made it all make sense. The main point was, why suffer with an unreliable, unsafe car, when you might be able to drive a newer safer car, for a few extra dollars a month.
I am not sure about taxes and interest, I think the extra repairs will probably offset that. I do know my friend with the Topaz plowed a lot of dollars into that car, and that money could have got him into a newer car.
I don't know if I got my idea across but you explained it really well. Great, well done!
You do understand that if you change numbers here (e.g. depreciation), they may not be so great. Plus if you want to offset taxes by maintenance that you have Option 1 turning from 56K $46K, i.e. the difference becomes $14K. And again - the terms of "unreliable" and "unsafe" are relative and they only mean that your assignment to variable "peace of mind" is very high.
Good story. You & I have the same low opinion of extended warranties.
I was innoculated long ago. When I bought my 1st new car, Dad fell for the salesman's spiel & insisted that I buy an EW. He was cosigning the note, so I didn't have much choice. The cost, as I recall, was somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 for a car that stickered for $2500.
A couple of years later, I found the EW on a closet shelf & decided for some reason to call the number for claims service, only to get the chilling "number out of service" taped message. After making some more calls (this was long before the web), I learned that the company that had underwritten the EW had gone belly up. That was my 1st & last EW.
I learned from that experience that it's silly to pay someone else to do something that you're capable of doing yourself. If you're worried that a nasty repair bill might cream your finances a few years from now, start saving today to prepare for it.
I don't understand people who think that they can spend their way out of financial difficulty. ("My car broke down. I can't afford to fix it. What should I do? I know - I'll borrow the money to buy a new one.")
the terms of "unreliable" and "unsafe" are relative and they only mean that your assignment to variable "peace of mind" is very high
There are lots of variables. But, it might cost less than most people think to be driving a newer car. Just a few variables could be, you could buy a more economical running car if you traded more often (as technology changes), there might be tax savings if you use the car for business, and lots more.
I am just saying, it might not cost as much as one thinks, to get rid of a rapidly detiorating car, and consder a new or 1 ot 2 year old car. Most people assume, the longer you keep a car, no matter how much repairs cost, the further ahead you will be.
I still like the way you calculated those numbers.....
Good story, I would like to be kept posted. Good luck, I hope you get the car at your price, which sounds fair. Upkeep is the big question......since about 90% of all Mercedes in North America are still on the road they must hold up pretty well, but it is a bit of a gamble.
Well, here goes. My first car buying story posted here. A bit of history: My parents are seniors and my father has some health issues. My mother is quick as a whip and takes care of pretty much everything...but knows nothing about cars or car buying. They had been looking for a new vehicle for my mother to drive to replace her 1994 VW Golf grocery getter. It has 86k kms on it after 15 years and would be fine but she doesn't want to drive a standard anymore and wanted AWD to deal with Calgary winters. Yup, they don't drive much. They got a new Sienna in 2004 and my father drives that occasionally. It's a 2005 and has less than 15k kms on it.
In the past 8 or nine months, I've been evaluating choices for them along the lines of CRVs, RAVs, Foresters and others along those lines. They went a drove a couple, but didn't land on anything. I told them to find what they wanted and I will go with them when they are ready to buy. I enjoy "negotiations".
Well, one Friday afternoon I get a call from them. They bought a car. I'm Informed that they bought a 2009 Subaru Tribeca that was driven by one of the dealer management and had 3600kms on it. The deal is done and they are picking it up next Monday, full warranty and the like. Seemed to be a step above the vehicles they were originally looking at, but I figured, it's their money and it will work very well for winter driving...with a bunch of luxury features.
I asked what they paid for it. My mother informs me that they got $8k off the regular price of $48k (Canadian, remember) for it having some kms on it. So $40k +tax and some Mop+glo they feel they need. Fine. I thought that was a good reduction and it is a year old with the 2010s coming out...so fair enough.
That night, considering that I really had never considered the Tribeca as a choice, I went to the Subaru Canada website and had a look at this vehicle. Looks very nice, good motor, great AWD. While fancier than necessary, I went to the "Build this Vehicle" section on the website so I can actually see it in the black they bought. As I get through the sections and to the final page with the prices, I notice that Subaru Canada is offering an incentive of $8000 on exactly their vehicle for the remaining 2009s. Uh oh. Isn't that exactly the "reduction" they got for it being a demo type vehicle? My heart starts to sink and I can just see the salesman taking advantage of my elderly folks.
While I'm enraged, my actual first thought is "They're happy with the car. They're happy with the "deal" they got. Don't make them feel bad and let it go. Over the next sleepless hours, I have a few more thoughts: -Does it have more options that gave it a higher price? How can I find out without making them suspicious and ruining their "happiness". -Should I go to the dealership tomorrow (saturday) and have a "chat" with the salesman without telling them? Keeping them happy and oblivious like that. - Should I do nothing and let them get taken? How much is the stress of getting a bad deal worth.
By the morning, after a quick consult with my wife and sister about what my best course of action should be, I realize I need to lay it out for them and see what we can do about it together. I call up my folk's place and find my father's out for breakfast with some friends and only my mother is home. Good, he doesn't need the stress.
I print out all the info from the website for the exact vehicle they bought and the price for a completely new one...without the demo kms is actually $470 less than they paid for the demo, after the incentives are applied. Getting angrier.
I show my mother the printouts and before I can suggest it, she's got her coat on and tells me we need to go to the dealer...NOW. One thing about my mother. She has always been in control of family money and she's has no qualms about speaking her mind...think small, super-energetic, white haired, and now enraged German lady and you've got the basic idea.
We get to the dealership, she attacks the original salesman (a one-month in newbie who obviously has no defenses) verbally in the middle of the showroom and, with my own rage building, I can't help but play the "took advantage of the elderly" card to throw at him. He's actually backed himself under the showroom stairs by this time when we finally let up. I ask to talk to the sales manager. He says only the used car manager is in, but he'll go get him.
We laying it all out for him, he realizes that the deal isn't going to fly as originally penned (they had put a $5000 deposit down on CC the day before) and we worked on stuff. After 45min of discussing the deal we've got it down to $38k including the tax and mop+glo. I ask if my mother is OK with this, as I figure it's about $3800 off for the milage that's on the vehicle. She goes for it and they write up a new deal.
She seems in good spirits as we head home as she can tell my father they saved some money, without him needing to be involved at all.(good for his health..he doesn't need the stress of any of that). I'm feeling good about saving them a few bucks and they still get the vehicle they were so happy about the day before. As she's getting out of the vehicle she tells me she's a bit shocked that I used the words "my elderly parents" during the negotiations and that she's not elderly. :surprise: . Good times.
always a tough call, but keep in mind, those of us that post here are probably not a good representation of the "average" american car owner/buyer.
Too many gear heads, compulsive buyers, and generally well informed.
There are tons of people that know nothing about cars, and can't (or won't) deal with repair shops, etc. That, and busy people often put a premium on reliability and not having to deal with issues.
You can do all the preadsheets in the world to prove it is cheaper to do repairs monthly on the old car, but how many people are willing to put up with the hassle of having to get them done?
That, and the risk of being stranded. My wife has a 1 and done policy on that. If the car breaks down and leaves here stranded, she won't drive it again. Developed that rule after the '86 323 broka a crankshaft tip off on the highway, and she ended up standing in the median with the hood up. Not a happy camper to say the least!
And if you couldn't put a price tag on tursuworthiness or having the cool new thing, Honda and BMW wouldn't sell as many higer priced cars (since a Hyundai will get you around just fine).
My last car purchase in late June would likely have been a Hyundai (or Kia) small car if the dealer hadn't closed the nearby store and relied on the superstore group of 8 or dealerships in one cluster of attached buildings 25 miles away.
Based on what I'd read from people here, some of the economy offerings would have suited me just fine as does the Cobalt. But I didn't want to drive that far in that direction and I didn't like the facility with acres of different used car and new car lots fronting the cluster of buildings and the speed bumps to traverse the parking lots. And part of it is just irritation that they had closed the nearby Kia and Hyundai stores which shared a corner lot with two separate facilities. When other type stores close one serving our immediate area and take the approach of "just drive 15 miles to our other store," I don't do that. I drive to Cincinnati or Columbus or the internet.
BUT, just for future reference, there was no need to attack the salesperson. Since your folks hadn't taken delivery of the vehicle, the deal was not done. You could have easily said "we're no longer interested," and been done with it. ... That is, unless Canadian laws on this matter differ from US.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'll add a story to the forum just in time for the holidays. My wife and I recently bought our third VW. After the last one, we swore we'd not have another. When you pick your car up at a VW dealer after service, they generally show you to the F&I office to take care of the bill.
Anyway, my wife's 1999 Passat has 150,000 miles on it, and we've been eyeballing cars for the past few months as a replacement for it. All along the plan had been to get a used 1 - 2 year old Infiniti, either a G or an M. After looking locally and on Ebay, we felt fairly confident we could get one with 30,000 miles for less than $30,000. We test drove a few and looked at some other makes and models as well. We were looking at Roswell Infiniti outside of Atlanta, and the sales person we talked to was very low pressure. The cars rode well and were nicely equipped. This would be my wife's car so she would have the final say so.
We also took at look at Audi and considered taking advantage of their end of year lease specials, but the special prices evaporated fairly quickly. There was no way we could get near the $299 per month they were advertising, and my wife was not impressed with the stereo system and felt the basic system on a car priced north of $30K should be good enough. To upgrade the system would cost another chunk of change - $1500 or something to get the better package with a better stereo. Plus, Audi has dropped the comprehensive maintenance, which was the main reason we looked at them. So we passed.
We considered the Buick LaCrosse, but there are so few available that deals are hard to come by. We couldn't even make arrangements to test drive one. Same with the new Ford Taurus. We used the Costco Buying Service to set up an appointment to test drive a Taurus. We go to meet the salesman I talked to at the time we had agreed to, and the sales guy is not there. He's gone for the day and has not left word about our appointment with anyone. We ask to test drive a Taurus and they say they haven't had any available in over a week. We'd made our appointment earlier that week, so they guy knew he had nothing on the lot when I talked with him, but he still asked us to come in, and then he didn't even show. We tried the Costco service for the Buick and struck out there too. Same for Audi. Overall, I am less than impressed with Costco on this and have let them know. But that's another story.
Anyway, every time we looked elsewhere, we kept coming back to the fact that Infiniti was what my wife liked best. BMW was out because they get costly to repair after the warranty expires. And let's be honest, in Atlanta, you toss a rock, you hit a Beamer. They are ALL over the place here. And the 3 series just does nothing for my wife with the styling. It seems so dated. Lexus lost out because the ES350 did nothing for my wife either. She wants something sporty.
So we're pretty much back to Infiniti. We're on Thanksgiving vacation and stop at the Costco in Montgomery, AL to gas up on our way to Sandestin, FL. We go in to get the kids a snack, and they have a 2010 VW CC on the floor. This is the first time we've seen the CC up close. We'd already ruled out a new Passat, but the CC was so stylish and so different. My wife said, "I've got to test drive one of these."
After Thanksgiving, she priced one out on the VW site, and it was north of $41K equipped the way she wanted it. I told her I'd not pay $41K for a VW in 2009 or 2010 or 2015 for that matter. The base sport model was nice ($29K) but just didn't have what she wanted. We'd almost dismissed it when I saw an Internet special on the local VW dealer's Web site. It was for a 2009 CC VR6 sport, the last VR6 sport left over for 2009. The car had been on the lot for the whole year and hadn't sold. The GM had been driving it for the past few months, so it had 4400 miles on it but was still new. They were marking it down almost 10K from MSRP.
I e-mailed the Internet guy to talk about it. At first, he wanted to push us to the 2010 models, but I told him we'd not pay top dollar for a 2010, and unless he could get under $30K for one nicely equipped, we couldn't consider a 2010. I said we wanted to look at the 2009. We set up an appointment. That Saturday, we drove to the dealership. It's in Marietta, and they've always had issues with not having enough parking. Now they are renovating it and making it very nice, but they have almost zero room to park new cars. Anyway, we pull in, and I was already impressed that the car was sitting out front waiting for us. We parked and went in with the rug rats in tow and met the Internet sales guy. He took my wife out and showed her all the features of the car, and I must say this car has features on top of features. It had everything but Nav, Bluetooth, and rear side airbags. We didn't Nav, and Bluetooth could be added. The extra airbags would have been nice. I was impressed that it had the xenon headlights that turn with the car (the kids love that feature), heated seats, nice stereo, XM, tire pressure monitoring, power seats for driver and passenger, rain sensing wipers, 18" rims, etc.
Wife takes it for a spin with the boys and I stay behind. It's a four seater if you didn't know. That doesn't actually bother us. We don't often haul five people around, so it shouldn't be an issue. Plus, there's a firm dividing point in the backseat to keep the kids separated. Wife comes back and after she gets out, she pulls me aside with a huge grin on her face. She loves the car. I then take it out as well, and I was very impressed with the handling and acceleration. Sales guy notes that wife put it through its paces (she can be a lead foot). I am impressed with the touches VW put in it, like that you can bump the turn signal to get three clicks for lane changing without having to fully activate it. The info display has just about any piece of data you can request, and you can set alarms for speed and such. Most new VWs are now on a 10K service interval, so its fewer oil changes (with synthetic, of course). The seats were VERY comfy and were real leather and could be adjusted to a million positions. The trunk was cavernous. Overall, it drove well, and the styling was incredible. It turns heads.
After we got back, I popped the hood to look at it from a maintenance standpoint. I change the oil on our 99 Passat and my 04 Expedition, so I was curious how things were set up under the hood. It was very compact but neatly laid out. The battery is actually in the trunk too.
Internet guy gives us the pricing sheet and notes that the price they've given, $29,700, is the lowest they will go. Wife and I head out and thank him for his time. On the ride home, wife notes that she LOVED the car and the way it drove. She said it inspired her so much more than the Infinitis (G or M) did. She said for the same price as a used G, we could get a new CC. So we go home and talk about it. I look up some pricing on
New, I'm not annoyed but I do get puzzled sometimes.
I remember, a few years ago when the last of the manual CRV's were being produced, I had a customer who just HAD to have one! He couldnt' understand exactly WHY Honda could ever quit building 5 speed CRV's. He went on and on about how he has so much "control" with a manual etc.
And, he HAD to have a certain color, the least popular color Honda produced.
Oh, how he fretted I wouldn't be able to find this oddball CRV!
But, I found one in Oregon at a store that was so happy to be rid of it.
I took a deposit and sent our driver to go get it.
Two days later, I called my customer to let him know it had arrived!
He showed up later that day, with his wife.
" Ah....ah.....ah....we've been talking and we think we want to go with an automatic"
" WHAT?" actually my Sales Manager said something else that started with the word "what" and ended with something much worse.
They switched colors too, of course.
Six months later we actually traded that CRV to another store. during those six months I heard about it pretty often.
So sorry! Guess I should have split it right about the time my wife finished her test drive and then added, in honor of Mack, "To be continued..."
My problem is I usually start something and then finish it rather than letting it sit. I hate letting projects sit unfinished...drives me crazy. I'll try to do better next time ;-)
Could it be that your wife liked the CC because she had been driving almost the same thing for several years and was just used to it..... and everything else she drove felt "different" than what she was used to?
Good story. But keep in mind that your folks paid what they thought was fair for the vehicle until you showed them they could try to get more money off the price.
Not really anyone's fault or that the dealer was doing anything bad. The dealer will always try to sell for as much as possible. That's how the business works.
Same as if you go to a store and end up paying full price on an item that had a coupon available for it that you forgot to use.
But anyways good job for knocking another $2k or so off the price.
I'm not sure of the legality of it, but they had put down a deposit and had a signed sales agreement. Not sure how "refundable" that deposit was. The emotions were high. Anyway it all worked out and the salesman was very apologetic about the "misunderstanding" of the $8000 reduction for the mileage on the vehicle actually being a rebate from Subaru CA. He did the walkthrough on Monday for them.
The salesman told them the $8000 was because the vehicle was a demo. How obligated is salesman to be upfront about corporate incentives and the misrepresentation of them? legal vs. moral?
I'm glad it all got resolved, but your parents have nobody to blame but themselves.
You told them to call you when they were ready to buy, but instead they decided to do it on their own without doing their research. Luckily they got out of it, but they deserve what they got. Sorry, but true.
This is a very good example of what Richard was saying a while back. Take somebody with you if you haven't done your research.
Absolutely Right, Buyer Beware raises its head everywhere. I did tell them to call me, they didn't,but we managed to work something out that made everyone happy. I would think they would have reversed the deal and got a refund through their credit card if things hadn't been dealt with by the dealer. Didn't really improve my general outlook on car salesmen (present company excluded, of course). They specifically told them the reduction was for mileage and never mentioned any incentive. The dealership would have pocketed the full amount.
"...60k to 80k miles. That's when your car will start need (ing) quite a few parts."
Not so sure about that one. At 105k, my '03 Explorer has had three sets of tires, two batteries, one set of brake pads, and one electric window. The window was my fault because I forced it under icy conditions after a sudden drop in temperature within four hours...as in 70 degrees to 30 degrees. I think that good maintenance saves on buying parts later.
If the climate treaty gets signed by the U.S., you won't be worried about your cars. You'll be spending your savings on your home. The "Retrofit" provision in the treaty mandates that you make your home "green" by 2014. It's also included in the Cap and Trade legislation. How do I know? I spent six hours reading the damn thing. :sick:
LOL!!! My wife and I recently purchased a $3k oriental rug. My nephew asked why we did that at our age when we really didn't need it. I mentioned that we couldn't take the money with us. He asked if we ever considered the fact that he would be left behind and could use some money. I said, "Yes, we considered it and then purchased the rug." :P
I know you got a good deal but still tough to come to terms with-38k for a Subaru? A Subaru? Geez, in the entry luxury level. A 2 or 3 yr certified may have been much cheaper. But she loves it and that`s what that matters.. Many many years of reliable Subaru AWD driving,I guess ! :shades:
First, I enjoyed your story. We need those here. Secondly, you're a fine son to worry about your parents and want to help them. Thirdly, they should have called you as you had requested. I buy antiques by myself because I have a knowledge base. When I buy electronics, I take my nephew along. Why? Because I don't know much about technology. It just makes good sense. I hope that your parents will enjoy their new car.
That is why I couldn't sell cars. Customers will tell you the very opposite of what they end up doing. It would drive me crazy! I would never treat a salesman that way. Why bother a salesman until you (and the wife) know what you intend to do? Your particular customer should have had his conversation with the wife first. I'm always amazed at how couples don't communicate until the last minute---if at all.
Remember, cars in Canada are generally quite a bit more expensive than in the US. Also, they won't buy a true used car. Their cars will be driven (very little) for at least 15 if not many more years...god grant them long life.
Oh ok, I missed that part who said what. But yeah in this case it's more of a moral thing than a legal thing. And no the salesman shouldn't have done it.
any family member of mine that said something like that would earn my everlasting distain. that being said, we took in one my nephews a couple of years back. he ended up getting a GED and had several thousand dollars in his bank account when we mutually decided, sort of, that he needed to make his own way in the world. i have kept him on my family cell phone plan for the last 4 years. many times i have had to keep bugging him to collect his bill, but i stick with it hoping he will grow up. i know that having a cell phone is a huge deal for his generation. he would rather have the phone than a new car. buys another used car after he crashes out whatever he is driving. one of my dreams is for him to buy a new car and take good care of it.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Comments
I agree with that and I told this tale a while back but since we hit on it again, I’ll tell about the jmonroe method of forced savings for an unexpected repair.
It all started when we bought our first house (a new one, two years after we were married) and it needed EVERY appliance known to man. The salesman tried to sell us an extended warranty on all of them but I refused. When we walked out of the place Mrs. jmonroe said, “why didn’t you buy the extended warranty, didn’t you hear the salesman say how much a refrigerator compressor would cost to replace after the regular warranty expired”? I said, “I don’t think we can afford it” and she said, “I don’t think we can afford not to have it”? So I said, “OK, lets put that amount of money into an account for when the time comes that we need to repair any of these appliances”.
Long story short, every time for many years after that we would put into that account the amount that an extended warranty would cost. I proved my point many times over years ago but she would always put money into that account when we bought anything that had an extended warranty offered on it. When we bought cars that really upped the account. However, she drew the line when we bought a cordless phone/ answering machine about 5 years ago that would have upped the account by something like $6.72. She said, “I’m not going to do that and put up with that lady at the bank saying (when she sees the account number for that account), “oh how nice, you bought another appliance, what did you get this time”? I never told her to explain what the account was for but you know how the ladies like to talk. :confuse:
That account has grown to the point where we could buy a pretty decent 2 or 3 year old used car but fortunately so far we’ve just let it sit there. If it weren’t for the bank sending me a statement every year telling me how much I have to report to the IRS on my 1040 form for the whopping interest I’ve made, I wouldn’t even remember I had that account because she makes all of the deposits.
I’m going to have to ask our poster buddy ‘snake’ if he can recommend a way I can weasel out of claiming that interest. It’s killing me every year when I have to pay for that account because it wasn’t supposed to be used for that. :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Take the money and invest it in tax free municipal bonds, interest is free of any Federal income tax (may be taxable on the state level).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh, oooooh. You're in trouble now! Grin.
Actually I bought an extended warranty on the two electronically controlled devices we bought recently, washer and dryer. I read enough on the appliance repair sites on the internet to decide I didn't want to troubleshoot the circuit boards and sensors if I didn't have to do so. It was a minor amount of money for 5-years via Lowes including the one-year Whirlpool guarantee and adding to it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
AMT, alternative minimum tax, is always in play on tax free investments.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't get me wrong - there are some great deals out there and with low interest loans, upfront discounts and good resale values of some brands it is entirely plausible that buying may sometimes turn to be not as costly as in other cases. But self-delusions are one of my pet peeves. Just like when I heard five years ago what a great investment house was (and everybody was a real estate genius), I also cringe when hearing those too good to be true stories about somebody getting new cars often and not losing a penny in the process with their used cars increasing their values and dealers preactically paying them to take the new cars.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I liked reading your post because it sounds exactly like my friends car. I would say for 2 years of repair costs, he could have bought half a new car, that could last for 10 years....but after 2 years he just had a pile of rusting metal worth nothing.
Sometimes it is better to trade in before investing too much in an old lemon. I think it is like "gambling"....if I just do one more $500 repair I'll get through another 2 years of driving, but quite often it is another $500 and another. The lemon keeps going down in value and the newer car keeps getting more expensive.
Here's my new chart
New Fusion $25,000 after 10 years value $3000 Buy new Fusion $50,000
Diff $47000 and car cost $2200 a year to drive (plus repairs) New`Fusion to cost $47000 after trade in.
OR
New Fusion $25,000 after 5 years value $10,000 Buy new Fusion $30,000
Diff $20,000 and car cost $3000 a year to drive (fewer repairs). New Fusion will cost $30000-$10000=$20000 which is much easier to handle than $47000 unless you are a really good saver.
I am not an accountant or bookkeeper, but the savings from trying to keep an old lemon going are not worth it to me...even a fairly good car is questionable, in my opinion.
And as noted, there's safety features to consider if you trade after 5 years instead of waiting 10 years.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree, I don't go for slick stories about how to make lots of money fast. But, I think sometimes people assume the longer you keep a car, the more you will save. I just think sometimes, you are actually further ahead, trading in more often.
Even though it might cost a little more, the extra safety and reliability might be worth it.
My figures in the last post might be out a bit, but i would rather pay more and drive a safer more dependable car. And that isn't just fulfilling an urge to buy a new car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
However, people who are more well off, other priorities kick in, such as value of time, improved safety. Reliability? Well maintained car from good brand has a lot of life left at 60K - statistically that is. On individual basis it actually may not - which brings us to individual's decision.
Bottom line - if one has money to spend there is nothing wrong with trading more often. If one want more money on their retirement account or emergency fund, they have to assign less monetary value to their time or "peace of mind".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
New Fusion $25,000 after 10 years value $3000 Buy new Fusion $50,000
Diff $47000 and car cost $2200 a year to drive (plus repairs) New`Fusion to cost $47000 after trade in.
OR
New Fusion $25,000 after 5 years value $10,000 Buy new Fusion $30,000
Diff $20,000 and car cost $3000 a year to drive (fewer repairs). New Fusion will cost $30000-$10000=$20000 which is much easier to handle than $47000 unless you are a really good saver.
Here is where you math is applied incorrectly - your time frames are not comparable. In order to have comparable cycles of ownership, you have to go from begining of first to end of last. Your first ownership cycle cycle is 2*10 = 20 years (from begining of first car to end of last car), your second cycle is only 2*5 = 10 years. You have to rougly tripple your second number (from first car to end of fourth car) to get into comparable frame of reference - and that doesn't even include additional taxes and interest paid for new cars.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
imid....Been bit by that more than a few times. I use TurboTax. As soon as I get near the end of my return, and I'm feeling pretty good about my tax situation.....WHAMO...AMT rears its ugly head.
Thanks for the advice on the Benz. Took it for a test drive last night. It is all that and more. It's a tank, no doubt. Built extremely well....built like Mercedes used to be known for.
Slipped it over to the dealer closest to me, and who's done most of the recent service. One of the techs recognized it. Asked about its condition. He gave it a total "thumbs up". Happened to wander the lot to see what a new E series cost while the tech was looking at the '98. They're well into the $50k-$60K range. One of the SMs approached me. He thought the '98 looked familiar.
I explained the situation to how I came to drive it. He knew my friend. My friend and his wife had already put a down payment on a new E that's being delivered to the dealership in a few weeks. He said they wanted to trade it in. The SM didn't give me an exact number but said it was in that $5K range, which "Boom" pegged it.
I drove it back to my friend. It really is a very nice car. I don't need it. Sure do like it, though. Handles very well for such a big car, especially one that's 10 years old. No squeaks, groans, screeches or rattles. It tracks straight. Brakes feel good. Tranny is smooth and quick shifting. Steering and suspension is still tight. Must have had a recent under hood cleaning because it looks way cleaner than the way a 10 year old engine bay should look. Didn't get a chance to go over all the service receipts, but he put together a binder with all of them cataloged. Didn't see any obvious signs of body or paint work.
I offered my friend $6K for it. He balked a little. Didn't counter me, either. Said he'd put it in the newspaper to see what kind of bite he'd get on it. If he doesn't get any bites between $7K-$8K, he said he'd sell it to me for $6K. Nothing wrong with that. To me, it's a great deal at $6K. Anything above that, I wouldn't be interested.
If the dealership was somewhere around $5K, and I'm at $6K, I figure he's ahead of the game with a quick sale to me. If he can get more than that (which he might), more power to him. It's Christmas time. People are spending money on gifts. I was hoping he'd take the quick sale cash I offered.
Knowing that if anything does goes wrong with it, it will be a hefty hit to my wallet. But, there's nothing obvious or imminent that seems like it would fail. Still, it's a 10 year old car. Repair bills could quickly exceed the purchase price if something goes sideways.
If interested, I'll keep you posted.
On a separate note, my son just got a recall notice on his Elantra. Control arms need to be replaced, since the original ones are prone to rust and fail. That could be catastrophic if they fail while the car is on the road. Strange, this is 6 years after the fact. But, Hyundai must have seen enough of them fail to issue a recall. That fix can't be cheap for Hyundai.
Option 1: 2 Fusions kept 10 years. Worth 3K at end of the periods at end of 10 years, 25K+(25K-3K)-3K=46K. Extra maintence/repair beyond 5 years: $1000/year*2*5 years = 10K. TOTAL: $56K
Option 2: 4 Fusions, kept 5 years. Each worth $10 K after 5 years 25K+(25K-10K)*3-10K = $60K.
So looks like a wash. However:
1. Add interest, taxes to each transaction. Option 1 pulls ahead, say by 5+ grand.
2. Add possibility of dropping collision/comprehensive insurance at year 9 and 10. Option 1 pulls ahead by thousand or so.
3. Add uncertainty of maintenance repair costs. Can be less, can be much more. Option 2 gains some ground if you are risk averse, but it could actually be the opposite if you like playing odds.
Bottom line - it's always money that you can't see at first glance (extra costs not advertised) that actually make that difference. Just like with house (people "forgot" cost of the interest or realtor when they told you how much money they "made" on their last house), boat and other large items. Marketers have been very successful into focusing peoples' minds into narrow aspects of costs and disregarding others.
I must add - 10 grand for 5 yo Fusion seems a bit optimistic to me. The differences can be smaller or greater depending on mostly on the brand (depreciation and reliability).
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I accept that my calculations are not very accurate, but I am not sure which second number has to be tripled.
What I am really trying to say is, if you have a really bad lemon, that will need lots of repairs, it might be worth paying, an additional $1000 or $2000 a year, to drive a safer more dependable car - IF - you have the income to be able to do it.
You might even come out well ahead if you buy a good one or two year old car, which really lowers the hit on depreciation.
The concept just says, an older car that is continually breaking down might appear to be cheaper transportation, but you might be spending more on repairs, than the car is worth....AND that money might be better spent, paying down a newer car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The major fallacy here is older cars DO NOT CONTINUALLY break down. Some do, most don't. Most OCCASIONALLY break down, which is a very big difference. $500-1000 repair every 12-24 months is not CONTINUALLY.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Option 1: 2 Fusions kept 10 years. Worth 3K at end of the periods at end of 10 years, 25K+(25K-3K)-3K=46K. Extra maintence/repair beyond 5 years: $1000/year*2*5 years = 10K. TOTAL: $56K
Option 2: 4 Fusions, kept 5 years. Each worth $10 K after 5 years 25K+(25K-10K)*3-10K = $60K.
Dino, you are a genius! Do you happen to do wills too?
You put my mess of thoughts and figures and made it all make sense. The main point was, why suffer with an unreliable, unsafe car, when you might be able to drive a newer safer car, for a few extra dollars a month.
I am not sure about taxes and interest, I think the extra repairs will probably offset that. I do know my friend with the Topaz plowed a lot of dollars into that car, and that money could have got him into a newer car.
I don't know if I got my idea across but you explained it really well. Great, well done!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I was innoculated long ago. When I bought my 1st new car, Dad fell for the salesman's spiel & insisted that I buy an EW. He was cosigning the note, so I didn't have much choice. The cost, as I recall, was somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 for a car that stickered for $2500.
A couple of years later, I found the EW on a closet shelf & decided for some reason to call the number for claims service, only to get the chilling "number out of service" taped message. After making some more calls (this was long before the web), I learned that the company that had underwritten the EW had gone belly up. That was my 1st & last EW.
I learned from that experience that it's silly to pay someone else to do something that you're capable of doing yourself. If you're worried that a nasty repair bill might cream your finances a few years from now, start saving today to prepare for it.
I don't understand people who think that they can spend their way out of financial difficulty. ("My car broke down. I can't afford to fix it. What should I do? I know - I'll borrow the money to buy a new one.")
There are lots of variables. But, it might cost less than most people think to be driving a newer car. Just a few variables could be, you could buy a more economical running car if you traded more often (as technology changes), there might be tax savings if you use the car for business, and lots more.
I am just saying, it might not cost as much as one thinks, to get rid of a rapidly detiorating car, and consder a new or 1 ot 2 year old car. Most people assume, the longer you keep a car, no matter how much repairs cost, the further ahead you will be.
I still like the way you calculated those numbers.....
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Good story, I would like to be kept posted. Good luck, I hope you get the car at your price, which sounds fair. Upkeep is the big question......since about 90% of all Mercedes in North America are still on the road they must hold up pretty well, but it is a bit of a gamble.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
A bit of history: My parents are seniors and my father has some health issues. My mother is quick as a whip and takes care of pretty much everything...but knows nothing about cars or car buying. They had been looking for a new vehicle for my mother to drive to replace her 1994 VW Golf grocery getter. It has 86k kms on it after 15 years and would be fine but she doesn't want to drive a standard anymore and wanted AWD to deal with Calgary winters. Yup, they don't drive much. They got a new Sienna in 2004 and my father drives that occasionally. It's a 2005 and has less than 15k kms on it.
In the past 8 or nine months, I've been evaluating choices for them along the lines of CRVs, RAVs, Foresters and others along those lines. They went a drove a couple, but didn't land on anything. I told them to find what they wanted and I will go with them when they are ready to buy. I enjoy "negotiations".
Well, one Friday afternoon I get a call from them. They bought a car. I'm Informed that they bought a 2009 Subaru Tribeca that was driven by one of the dealer management and had 3600kms on it. The deal is done and they are picking it up next Monday, full warranty and the like. Seemed to be a step above the vehicles they were originally looking at, but I figured, it's their money and it will work very well for winter driving...with a bunch of luxury features.
I asked what they paid for it. My mother informs me that they got $8k off the regular price of $48k (Canadian, remember) for it having some kms on it. So $40k +tax and some Mop+glo they feel they need. Fine. I thought that was a good reduction and it is a year old with the 2010s coming out...so fair enough.
That night, considering that I really had never considered the Tribeca as a choice, I went to the Subaru Canada website and had a look at this vehicle. Looks very nice, good motor, great AWD. While fancier than necessary, I went to the "Build this Vehicle" section on the website so I can actually see it in the black they bought. As I get through the sections and to the final page with the prices, I notice that Subaru Canada is offering an incentive of $8000 on exactly their vehicle for the remaining 2009s. Uh oh. Isn't that exactly the "reduction" they got for it being a demo type vehicle? My heart starts to sink and I can just see the salesman taking advantage of my elderly folks.
While I'm enraged, my actual first thought is "They're happy with the car. They're happy with the "deal" they got. Don't make them feel bad and let it go. Over the next sleepless hours, I have a few more thoughts:
-Does it have more options that gave it a higher price? How can I find out without making them suspicious and ruining their "happiness".
-Should I go to the dealership tomorrow (saturday) and have a "chat" with the salesman without telling them? Keeping them happy and oblivious like that.
- Should I do nothing and let them get taken? How much is the stress of getting a bad deal worth.
By the morning, after a quick consult with my wife and sister about what my best course of action should be, I realize I need to lay it out for them and see what we can do about it together. I call up my folk's place and find my father's out for breakfast with some friends and only my mother is home. Good, he doesn't need the stress.
I print out all the info from the website for the exact vehicle they bought and the price for a completely new one...without the demo kms is actually $470 less than they paid for the demo, after the incentives are applied. Getting angrier.
I show my mother the printouts and before I can suggest it, she's got her coat on and tells me we need to go to the dealer...NOW. One thing about my mother. She has always been in control of family money and she's has no qualms about speaking her mind...think small, super-energetic, white haired, and now enraged German lady and you've got the basic idea.
We get to the dealership, she attacks the original salesman (a one-month in newbie who obviously has no defenses) verbally in the middle of the showroom and, with my own rage building, I can't help but play the "took advantage of the elderly" card to throw at him. He's actually backed himself under the showroom stairs by this time when we finally let up. I ask to talk to the sales manager. He says only the used car manager is in, but he'll go get him.
We laying it all out for him, he realizes that the deal isn't going to fly as originally penned (they had put a $5000 deposit down on CC the day before) and we worked on stuff. After 45min of discussing the deal we've got it down to $38k including the tax and mop+glo. I ask if my mother is OK with this, as I figure it's about $3800 off for the milage that's on the vehicle. She goes for it and they write up a new deal.
She seems in good spirits as we head home as she can tell my father they saved some money, without him needing to be involved at all.(good for his health..he doesn't need the stress of any of that). I'm feeling good about saving them a few bucks and they still get the vehicle they were so happy about the day before. As she's getting out of the vehicle she tells me she's a bit shocked that I used the words "my elderly parents" during the negotiations and that she's not elderly. :surprise: . Good times.
Too many gear heads, compulsive buyers, and generally well informed.
There are tons of people that know nothing about cars, and can't (or won't) deal with repair shops, etc. That, and busy people often put a premium on reliability and not having to deal with issues.
You can do all the preadsheets in the world to prove it is cheaper to do repairs monthly on the old car, but how many people are willing to put up with the hassle of having to get them done?
That, and the risk of being stranded. My wife has a 1 and done policy on that. If the car breaks down and leaves here stranded, she won't drive it again. Developed that rule after the '86 323 broka a crankshaft tip off on the highway, and she ended up standing in the median with the hood up. Not a happy camper to say the least!
And if you couldn't put a price tag on tursuworthiness or having the cool new thing, Honda and BMW wouldn't sell as many higer priced cars (since a Hyundai will get you around just fine).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My last car purchase in late June would likely have been a Hyundai (or Kia) small car if the dealer hadn't closed the nearby store and relied on the superstore group of 8 or dealerships in one cluster of attached buildings 25 miles away.
Based on what I'd read from people here, some of the economy offerings would have suited me just fine as does the Cobalt. But I didn't want to drive that far in that direction and I didn't like the facility with acres of different used car and new car lots fronting the cluster of buildings and the speed bumps to traverse the parking lots. And part of it is just irritation that they had closed the nearby Kia and Hyundai stores which shared a corner lot with two separate facilities. When other type stores close one serving our immediate area and take the approach of "just drive 15 miles to our other store," I don't do that. I drive to Cincinnati or Columbus or the internet.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BUT, just for future reference, there was no need to attack the salesperson. Since your folks hadn't taken delivery of the vehicle, the deal was not done. You could have easily said "we're no longer interested," and been done with it.
... That is, unless Canadian laws on this matter differ from US.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'll add a story to the forum just in time for the holidays. My wife and I recently bought our third VW. After the last one, we swore we'd not have another. When you pick your car up at a VW dealer after service, they generally show you to the F&I office to take care of the bill.
Anyway, my wife's 1999 Passat has 150,000 miles on it, and we've been eyeballing cars for the past few months as a replacement for it. All along the plan had been to get a used 1 - 2 year old Infiniti, either a G or an M. After looking locally and on Ebay, we felt fairly confident we could get one with 30,000 miles for less than $30,000. We test drove a few and looked at some other makes and models as well. We were looking at Roswell Infiniti outside of Atlanta, and the sales person we talked to was very low pressure. The cars rode well and were nicely equipped. This would be my wife's car so she would have the final say so.
We also took at look at Audi and considered taking advantage of their end of year lease specials, but the special prices evaporated fairly quickly. There was no way we could get near the $299 per month they were advertising, and my wife was not impressed with the stereo system and felt the basic system on a car priced north of $30K should be good enough. To upgrade the system would cost another chunk of change - $1500 or something to get the better package with a better stereo. Plus, Audi has dropped the comprehensive maintenance, which was the main reason we looked at them. So we passed.
We considered the Buick LaCrosse, but there are so few available that deals are hard to come by. We couldn't even make arrangements to test drive one. Same with the new Ford Taurus. We used the Costco Buying Service to set up an appointment to test drive a Taurus. We go to meet the salesman I talked to at the time we had agreed to, and the sales guy is not there. He's gone for the day and has not left word about our appointment with anyone. We ask to test drive a Taurus and they say they haven't had any available in over a week. We'd made our appointment earlier that week, so they guy knew he had nothing on the lot when I talked with him, but he still asked us to come in, and then he didn't even show. We tried the Costco service for the Buick and struck out there too. Same for Audi. Overall, I am less than impressed with Costco on this and have let them know. But that's another story.
Anyway, every time we looked elsewhere, we kept coming back to the fact that Infiniti was what my wife liked best. BMW was out because they get costly to repair after the warranty expires. And let's be honest, in Atlanta, you toss a rock, you hit a Beamer. They are ALL over the place here. And the 3 series just does nothing for my wife with the styling. It seems so dated. Lexus lost out because the ES350 did nothing for my wife either. She wants something sporty.
So we're pretty much back to Infiniti. We're on Thanksgiving vacation and stop at the Costco in Montgomery, AL to gas up on our way to Sandestin, FL. We go in to get the kids a snack, and they have a 2010 VW CC on the floor. This is the first time we've seen the CC up close. We'd already ruled out a new Passat, but the CC was so stylish and so different. My wife said, "I've got to test drive one of these."
After Thanksgiving, she priced one out on the VW site, and it was north of $41K equipped the way she wanted it. I told her I'd not pay $41K for a VW in 2009 or 2010 or 2015 for that matter. The base sport model was nice ($29K) but just didn't have what she wanted. We'd almost dismissed it when I saw an Internet special on the local VW dealer's Web site. It was for a 2009 CC VR6 sport, the last VR6 sport left over for 2009. The car had been on the lot for the whole year and hadn't sold. The GM had been driving it for the past few months, so it had 4400 miles on it but was still new. They were marking it down almost 10K from MSRP.
I e-mailed the Internet guy to talk about it. At first, he wanted to push us to the 2010 models, but I told him we'd not pay top dollar for a 2010, and unless he could get under $30K for one nicely equipped, we couldn't consider a 2010. I said we wanted to look at the 2009. We set up an appointment. That Saturday, we drove to the dealership. It's in Marietta, and they've always had issues with not having enough parking. Now they are renovating it and making it very nice, but they have almost zero room to park new cars. Anyway, we pull in, and I was already impressed that the car was sitting out front waiting for us. We parked and went in with the rug rats in tow and met the Internet sales guy. He took my wife out and showed her all the features of the car, and I must say this car has features on top of features. It had everything but Nav, Bluetooth, and rear side airbags. We didn't Nav, and Bluetooth could be added. The extra airbags would have been nice. I was impressed that it had the xenon headlights that turn with the car (the kids love that feature), heated seats, nice stereo, XM, tire pressure monitoring, power seats for driver and passenger, rain sensing wipers, 18" rims, etc.
Wife takes it for a spin with the boys and I stay behind. It's a four seater if you didn't know. That doesn't actually bother us. We don't often haul five people around, so it shouldn't be an issue. Plus, there's a firm dividing point in the backseat to keep the kids separated. Wife comes back and after she gets out, she pulls me aside with a huge grin on her face. She loves the car. I then take it out as well, and I was very impressed with the handling and acceleration. Sales guy notes that wife put it through its paces (she can be a lead foot). I am impressed with the touches VW put in it, like that you can bump the turn signal to get three clicks for lane changing without having to fully activate it. The info display has just about any piece of data you can request, and you can set alarms for speed and such. Most new VWs are now on a 10K service interval, so its fewer oil changes (with synthetic, of course). The seats were VERY comfy and were real leather and could be adjusted to a million positions. The trunk was cavernous. Overall, it drove well, and the styling was incredible. It turns heads.
After we got back, I popped the hood to look at it from a maintenance standpoint. I change the oil on our 99 Passat and my 04 Expedition, so I was curious how things were set up under the hood. It was very compact but neatly laid out. The battery is actually in the trunk too.
Internet guy gives us the pricing sheet and notes that the price they've given, $29,700, is the lowest they will go. Wife and I head out and thank him for his time. On the ride home, wife notes that she LOVED the car and the way it drove. She said it inspired her so much more than the Infinitis (G or M) did. She said for the same price as a used G, we could get a new CC. So we go home and talk about it. I look up some pricing on
Where is the rest of the story!!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I remember, a few years ago when the last of the manual CRV's were being produced, I had a customer who just HAD to have one! He couldnt' understand exactly WHY Honda could ever quit building 5 speed CRV's. He went on and on about how he has so much "control" with a manual etc.
And, he HAD to have a certain color, the least popular color Honda produced.
Oh, how he fretted I wouldn't be able to find this oddball CRV!
But, I found one in Oregon at a store that was so happy to be rid of it.
I took a deposit and sent our driver to go get it.
Two days later, I called my customer to let him know it had arrived!
He showed up later that day, with his wife.
" Ah....ah.....ah....we've been talking and we think we want to go with an automatic"
" WHAT?" actually my Sales Manager said something else that started with the word "what" and ended with something much worse.
They switched colors too, of course.
Six months later we actually traded that CRV to another store. during those six months I heard about it pretty often.
My problem is I usually start something and then finish it rather than letting it sit. I hate letting projects sit unfinished...drives me crazy. I'll try to do better next time ;-)
I think that happens a lot.
So what did you buy?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Not really anyone's fault or that the dealer was doing anything bad. The dealer will always try to sell for as much as possible. That's how the business works.
Same as if you go to a store and end up paying full price on an item that had a coupon available for it that you forgot to use.
But anyways good job for knocking another $2k or so off the price.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Anyway it all worked out and the salesman was very apologetic about the "misunderstanding" of the $8000 reduction for the mileage on the vehicle actually being a rebate from Subaru CA. He did the walkthrough on Monday for them.
You told them to call you when they were ready to buy, but instead they decided to do it on their own without doing their research. Luckily they got out of it, but they deserve what they got. Sorry, but true.
This is a very good example of what Richard was saying a while back. Take somebody with you if you haven't done your research.
Buyer Beware raises its head everywhere. I did tell them to call me, they didn't,but we managed to work something out that made everyone happy. I would think they would have reversed the deal and got a refund through their credit card if things hadn't been dealt with by the dealer.
Didn't really improve my general outlook on car salesmen (present company excluded, of course). They specifically told them the reduction was for mileage and never mentioned any incentive. The dealership would have pocketed the full amount.
Richard
Not so sure about that one. At 105k, my '03 Explorer has had three sets of tires, two batteries, one set of brake pads, and one electric window. The window was my fault because I forced it under icy conditions after a sudden drop in temperature within four hours...as in 70 degrees to 30 degrees. I think that good maintenance saves on buying parts later.
Richard
Richard
Richard
a taurus is a very large car.
Richard
Richard
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
As long as it doesn't strand you on some lonely stretch of highway too often. :lemon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Please, Please, Please
Remember the following:
There is no such thing as a "Beamer"
Bimmer= BMW Automobile
Beemer= BMW Motorcycle
Thank you for your cooperation.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
that being said, we took in one my nephews a couple of years back.
he ended up getting a GED and had several thousand dollars in his bank account
when we mutually decided, sort of, that he needed to make his own way in the world.
i have kept him on my family cell phone plan for the last 4 years.
many times i have had to keep bugging him to collect his bill, but i stick with it hoping he will grow up. i know that having a cell phone is a huge deal for his generation.
he would rather have the phone than a new car. buys another used car after he crashes out whatever he is driving.
one of my dreams is for him to buy a new car and take good care of it.