It's so good to see you here again. Hope you like the service department. How are things going---girlfriends, laying off the booze, etc.? Are you behaving yourself? Have a wonderful 2010! How about some stories from the service area?
It cracks me up these tire pressure sensors. Can anyone guess how many vehicles pull in the drive with the TPMS light on?
Squeaks and rattles on vehicles with 80,00 miles....
I can say this much.... I definatley look at vehicles differently after working on te service side. I can't wait to figure what I am doing on thw service side. It is definately a lot of fun and busy.
I can say this much.... I definatley look at vehicles differently after working on te service side. I can't wait to figure what I am doing on thw service side. It is definately a lot of fun and busy.
How are your guys with doing a proper oil change? They use the recommended oil viscosity or whatever is on sale? Also, do they let cusomers like jmonroe crawl down in the service bay to monitor oil changes?
GP,nice to see you back. And I would say that service stories are far more interesting than the actual sales stories. How about sharing a few of them ? And your perspective and the customer's expectation?
Since I think you are with Nissan- I can guess your 4 most common complaints in the service department. Please let us know if it is otherwise. :P
1.Brake and rotor problems--substandard and small brakes. 2.Steering wheel shakes/vibrations with tire problems[balancing and alignment] 3.CEL's - causes being O2 sensor/camshaft sensor/mass air flow sensor/catalytic converter 4.Horrible squeaks and rattles with no fixes-in Nissans with 8k and not 80k miles
Hope you have a great service department career and you service stories are very much appreciated ! :shades:
Though it caught my attention, I don't have the heart to correct him. We haven't seen him in such a long time. Actually, he used to take my corrections as a learning experience. He would put them in a little notebook. He's such a nice young man.
BR, Absolutely no offense to you. Was just stating a reality nowadays. Cars are much more complex nowadays and each automaker has its own quirks and specs and requirements. It is just not possible for the average mechanic to know every info about every car. Just not possible in today's life.
And I did not generalize-- I did not say "ALL" are school drop outs etc-I said "MOST" are. Big difference there. And I did not mean any disrespect there. I just felt I was stating an honest opinion. Sorry if it felt otherwise.And ASE certification is just a basic certification-not any make specific .So not of too much benefit to a customer with today`s complex cars.
And here's an MSNBC story link which explains why regular general mechanics are finding it very tough if not impossible to repair and service today's cars. Hence I would always take my car to a dealer. Some competence is better than no competence. And also dealer labor rates are not outrageously expensive compared to some small time mechanic with limited tools and knowhow- $55 vs $95 or $60 vs $100.And the dealer invests huge amounts for the latest technology and updates with help from the auto maker-something the regular roadside mechanic can never do . :P
an MSNBC story link which explains why regular general mechanics are finding it very tough if not impossible to repair and service today's cars
That was a really good link. Lots of good information about how it is more difficult for independent mechanics to compete with the franchised dealers....and how this will probably cause repair costs to go up.
Although BR might have run a Fast Lube with lots of graduate students working there, my experience is closer to yours. Minimum pay usually results in minimum effort, and there is constant overselling. They keep a computer record of your visits at the Fast Lube places, and scare you into buying and replacing parts constantly. For example, you've gone 5000 miles sir, you probably need new wiper blades. I am sure a lot of people believe what the manager is telling them. They usually hire a really serious guy who makes you feel like your car is going to fall apart if you don't get the transmission fluids changed at 25k miles!
I always thought a good indie mechanic was a real find, and I have had quite a few. But, I get the feeling, that in most cases, it is safer to take the car to a dealer - one you can trust...and that is sometimes difficult to find.
Also, do they let cusomers like jmonroe crawl down in the service bay to monitor oil changes?
If you don’t ask you don’t get. I learned that right here at Edmunds. However, I will admit that if the guy at dealer’s quick lube center had stuck to his guns as he originally said and refused my request to watch and possibly learn something during the first oil change on the Genny, I would have been a lot better off by not having to see what I saw. What I learned was to not go back there again, EVER.
The manager originally used the standard line- “for insurance reasons we can’t allow customers to enter the service area”. How many times have we heard that one? To a large extent that is probably true but when I said, “no thanks I’m not interested in having that oil change done now” he changed his tune and allowed me to go down into the oil change pit. So, I guess you can say money talks. I didn’t hold a gun to his head.
FWIW, the instant I went down those steps, into that pit of darkness, I should have known nothing good could happen down there. The only light down there was the light that came from the floor above that seeped under the car. I should thank the car gods that my car has 18 inch wheels or there would have been even less light down there. I should have left, right there and then.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Although BR might have run a Fast Lube with lots of graduate students working there, my experience is closer to yours. Minimum pay usually results in minimum effort, and there is constant overselling.
Put another posters name on that list. However, back in the 70’s when I got the best price for Michelin tires at K-Mart I also got the best balancing that I had to that point from a kid just out of an auto mechanics school. Those spin balancers were just coming on board and this kid was proud of his work and showed me how that gizmo worked. He wasn’t satisfied until he put the pointer right in the center of the green area on the indicator. When he did the first tire the pointer was not quite in the center and he said, “I can do better than that” and he moved the weight over just a hair. He then put the tape strip that is on the tires that shows it’s size etc. back on the tire after he balanced it just to show me how sensitive that balancer was and how even that small amount of tape would affect the balancing.
When the time came to have those tires balanced about 5,000 miles later, I went back and ask for that same kid. The manager said, “he not here anymore. I couldn’t keep him. He got a better paying job at a dealer”.
The guy that did my balancing then was only satisfied to see the unbalance light go off. He didn’t care where the pointer was as long it was in the green area and I had to insist that he spin the tire after the weight was put on to check for that. He originally was getting ready to take the tire off the balancer until I said, “aren’t you supposed to spin it again to check for the light and where the pointer is on the indicator”? (that young kid taught me that). He said, “I’ve been doing this for so long I know it’s OK”. I just wanted to be humored.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I can't believe they actually let you go into the lube pit!
I ran a very busy shop for many years and never once did I have a cuistomer ask to do that and I would have turned the work away. That is no place for a customer!
Had you not stood there and eyeballed and coached that poor kid, your job would have been done in a satisfactory manner and you would have been content with the job. OK, maybe not every last dorp of oil may not have ocme out but it wouldn't have made even the slightest bit of difference in the life of your car.
The same applies to your wheel balance job. I know how those machines work. I trained people on the Norton machines when they first came out. You would have never been able to feel the slightest amount of difference between the two jobs.
This, is exactly why the majority of shops do not let customers watch except from a distance and even then, the mechanics hate it when they do this.
I once saw a sign...
LABOR RATES
50.00 per hour
75.00 per hour if you watch
100.00 per hour if you help
Seriously, if a person is that distrustful, they really ought to just do the work themselves.
. . .if a person is that distrustful, they really ought to just do the work themselves.
Yup.
I didn't start out this way. I got here by watching what happens when other people do things. I can screw it up myself for free, and that's for the work that actually needs to be done. Replacing the Johnson rods or cleaning the fuel injectors (on a perfectly-running engine) falls into another category altogether.
Even when I did heavy maintenance on my cars (engine rebuilds, u-joint replacement, whatever), I had jobs that I had to sub out, but when I took the part or subassembly in to have the special tooling used, the people I went to seemed to understand that I more-or-less knew what was going on.
Having taken note of what the dealerships have recommended over the past decade or two on the various vehicles I've been responsible for, I'll refer you to the top of this post. The high-school dropouts who seem to populate the "Service Advisor" cohort appear to be clueless, at best.
If we could all trust people, there would be no such things as passwords, virus scans or locks (house, car, gate, boat . . .). I used to exist in that place, when I was much younger.
Had you not stood there and eyeballed and coached that poor kid, your job would have been done in a satisfactory manner and you would have been content with the job.
I didn’t want to coach him. The reason I wanted to be there was because I had not seen the underside of that car yet and just wanted to look around and figured this would be a good time to do that. Also, since this was the first oil chance on that car I thought I might be able to learn something from a professional oil changer, but as we all know by now, the only thing I learned is that some professional oil changers ain’t so professional. This one certainly wasn’t but since that’s the one I went to I had to make the best of the bad choice I made. Just because you don’t see what’s going on doesn’t mean it’s done right. I hope you’re not one that subscribes to the ostrich philosophy because I know I don’t.
I know how those machines work. I trained people on the Norton machines when they first came out. You would have never been able to feel the slightest amount of difference between the two jobs.
I never said I would be able to detect the difference in the balance of the tire with and without the tape on it but the machine could and that is what this kid wanted to show me. This kid was very proud of that machine and just as proud of what he could do with it.
Seriously, if a person is that distrustful, they really ought to just do the work themselves.
Like I’ve already said, I wasn’t distrustful I just wanted to snoop around under my car but what I saw while I was there wasn’t at all satisfying. As for doing something myself, yeah, I do, whenever I can and if I could justify the cost of a tire changer and spin balancer I would have those in my garage too. Right next to my socket sets.
One last thing that sign with the labor rates are all over the place. One of my brothers has a sign shop and he’s made signs for several repair shops in the area (in fact he has one in his own shop) and that labor rate of $100 to help is a bargain. The shops around here want $500 if you want to help. You must have been looking at an old sign or you hang out in shops with incompetent mechanics who actually want the help.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
gp, great to see your post. happy new year! and keep us up to date on the 'after the sale' story. when my wife got her saab years ago, it vibrated on the highway after we drove it out of the dealership. i was first in line at the service dept the next morning.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
FWIW, the instant I went down those steps, into that pit of darkness, I should have known nothing good could happen down there. The only light down there was the light that came from the floor above that seeped under the car. I should thank the car gods that my car has 18 inch wheels or there would have been even less light down there. I should have left, right there and then.
Thank you JM.... another reason to go to a dealership and have it done proffessionaly.
Someone asked earlier what kind of oil do we use??? We use conventional, but if you want semi or full synthetic we have that too. (pretty sure that was obvious though) .... :surprise:
On the sales side you deal with 1 - 3 people (or groups of people) a day. On the service side I see from 15 - 25 people (or groups) plus vendors and "salespeople"
So by the end of the day sometimes i might forget one person or so.... So far this week we found a kitten and a mouse in the engine compartment... still living. Mouse in the filter and kitten sitting right on the car battery or very close. The mechanic opened the hood and the kitten jumped out him......LOL Scared the [non-permissible content removed] right out of him. I heard the scream "WHat the *&($" ..... I thought he had a heart attack, his face was so white.
I can't say it enough.... especially after being on the service side. GET THE WARRANTY !!!! You don't know what you are missing.
Someone was mentioning what the 4 biggest things i see....
1) $19.95 oil changes ...... "Yes sir, we keep up this state of the art equipment with $19.95 oil changes. And we don't charge you for the coffee."
2) Sqeaks and rattles..... No fun at all for anyone.
3) Brake jobs should be done when neccesary.... "Yes it may be expensive, but don't you have peace of mind knowing it is done with quality factory parts with trained technicians for your specific vehicle."
4) Recalls.... I see your car pull in for a oil change and I am thankfull for the 2 recalls on your vehicle .... "I understand you haven't recieved a notice in the mail yet. No reason to be upset. It is a recall for preventative maintanance, so you don't have problems in the future. Besides imagine if they told every one who had a toyota that there was a problem with it???? Dealerships would be over ran like a grocery store before blizzard. :P
Alright I ran out of ideas.... Way to many stories to tell. Mistakes i made....
Oh wait I can't believe I get to type this. A gentleman comes inside the building, through the showroom side. He asks how he can get out. (his english not so well) I point to the door and suggest he go that way. I was in the moddle of something. To the right of the door is two garage automatic garage doors. I see out of my left eye that he is trying to lift the "power"automatic garage door. He was in the squat position trying to move it. I bit my tounge halfway through a laugh and ran over to the "doorway" and opened it for him while saying "SIR".... "This way".... He figured it out.
This, is exactly why the majority of shops do not let customers watch except from a distance and even then, the mechanics hate it when they do this.
I have to agree. We have a area of the shop with big picture windows exactly for that reason. We know it. But you really have to the windows and really look around. Now no one ever minds if someone comes up and checks things out. But when people start peering or one our favorites.... Tries to act they aren't looking. I have seen people poking there heads every few moments. (had to see it for myself) But it does make some techs unwary. Or uncomfortable.... for no reason. May be it is just everyones own insecurities.
We have a area of the shop with big picture windows exactly for that reason.
Had a nail in rear tire of my MPV, took it into a Big O tire store today to have it plugged. They have a large picture window between the waiting area and the service bay. In a seated position you can't see much, but I see the van being driven in. After a few minutes I stand up and see the service tech (i.e grease monkey) searching the floor boards and looking into my glove compartment. Well, I think, I hope he's looking for the lugnut key I forgot to give them. I walk in the service area, ask the gentlemen if he's looking for the key, he looks confused, doesn't speak english apparently, I motion toward the tires saying key. He nods, and I dig the key out from under a secret compartment drawer under the passenger seat.
From a customers point of view, it's much more reassuring that you can see the work being done (partially), and the shop isn't trying to hide anything. It's also more entertaining, informative and relaxing watching a mechanic work... than reading a 3 month old magazine or watching Regis and Kathy Lee.
Also, got an email today from President and CEO Jim O'Sullivan of Mazda North America Operations, wanting me to take a survey on the recent service I had done at Oxmoor Mazda. I answered truthfully. Disappointed that I wasn't greeted promptly. The customer service area is actually in the service bay. When those huge doors open up to let customers drive in, it gets pretty cold. The two service advisors had their desks in that area... wearing their winter coats. The customer waiting area was a bit chilly as well. The 10% discount I was suppose to receive wasn't on the final bill. The service clerk apologized and gave me the discount when I reminded her. Overall, on a scale of 1-10 I gave the dealership an 8 on my overall satisfaction.
Thank you JM.... another reason to go to a dealership and have it done proffessionaly.
I don't know why you are thanking me, the place where I went for the oil change WAS at a certified dealerships quick lube center. Do you guys have one of those too?
Good to hear from you again. I'm hoping the hosts will allow Stories from the Service Frontlines here because I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in hearing some of those.
Isn't it a shame what those grease monkeys do to those pretty new cars that you sales guys sold?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A colleague of mine, who happens to live 2 states to the west of me (IL), is looking for a new car. He's figuring "end of year" is the time to buy. He's been waiting since the end of 2008 to buy a car. He tried to buy an Infiniti G last year. Couldn't make a deal. I have no idea why, as if a deal is anywhere close to reasonable, a dealer and buyer were likely to make it at the end of the year.
Anyway, he's back at it. And again, he's trying to buy an Infiniti G. Forget for a moment that prices probably rose between the '08-'09 model year, he's throwing out the same number that didn't net him a car last year. Aside from what I would consider an "undoable" number (reinforced by the lack of any dealer to accept it), he's also got some pretty strange belief that all dealers have 30% markup on any new car. For example, it's his belief that a car with an MSRP of $30K should be sold for $20K.
I've seen deals where you might get close to that line of thinking. For example, I know that the Caddy dealerships around me are selling their demos and service loaners at a steep discount. Yes, they have miles on them. And, they've never been titled. So, technically they're new cars. Plus, if you are currently in a GMAC lease that expires by March 2010, GM will give another $4K off. In short, it's possible to buy a loaded up CTS demo/loaner that has an MSRP of around $50K, for somewhere around the $35K range. Again, these have miles but are considered new cars.
Aside from the examples from GM, I don't know that 30% off MSRP on another brand is anywhere close to a number that will get a deal done on a new car.
But, that's not what he's trying to buy. He's stuck on a G sedan with AWD, loaded with an MSRP somewhere north of $40K and change. He wants to buy it for $28K, and no dealer is biting. He can't figure it out.
So, after taking him through all the pricing sites, listing rebates, invoice, MSRP, etc, I tell him he might, maybe, perhaps, if the stars line up correctly.....be able to make a deal in the $33K-$35K range. That's considerably higher than his original offer.
Spoke to him on the phone yesterday. He relayed that he finally found a dealership willing to sell him something close to what he wants (color is his 3rd choice, some dealer add-on options he could live without) for a number a little less than my high range, and a little more than my low range of what I thought would do a deal. He dismissed the "GG way" (that is, making a final offer including tax, title, license, and all fees) since he believed it was too complicated. I even suggested he figure taxes, license and a reasonable doc fee in his number, go to the bank, get a cashier's check for exactly that amount, and present it to the dealership as his offer....truly "out the door". He didn't want to do that either. Well, after a marathon grinding session that took 3+ hours. He signed on the dotted line and is the proud owner of a new 2009 G37x (nice cars, by the way).
As we were talking about his deal, I congratulated him on his very nice, new car. I also assured him he got a good deal. But, as I asked him how things went in the F&I office, he said "it was the normal stuff"...meaning a pitch for extended warranty, tire insurance, etc.
When I asked him about the kind of fees they charged, he said there was a $500 delivery fee (on top of the delivery fee that was already on the MSRP), a $900 fee they said they needed to charge for some sort of "preparation" (huh?). And, a $600 doc fee. I cringed when I heard this, but didn't say anything except congratulations.
Let's take a tally, shall we? He spent a year looking for a car. Negotiated with numerous dealerships. Spent a whole day grinding and waiting for delivery of the car he actually bought, which was "not exactly" what he really wanted. It took the dealership about 15 minutes to add $2K to the deal, and he signed off on it as "normal stuff".
>When I asked him about the kind of fees they charged, he said there was a $500 delivery fee (on top of the delivery fee that was already on the MSRP), a $900 fee they said they needed to charge for some sort of "preparation" (huh?). And, a $600 doc fee
GM offers deep deals on Pontiac, Saturn The cars may be hard to find Updated: Tuesday, 29 Dec 2009, 12:42 PM EST Published : Tuesday, 29 Dec 2009, 12:42 PM EST
By Joe LaFurgey GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - You could drive a shiny new GM Pontiac or Saturn off the lot for $7,000 less than your best deal.
If you can find a shiny new Pontiac or Saturn.
Both GM brands have been discontinued as the automaker continues to shed costs in the wake of last summer's bankruptcy.
Two weeks ago, the automaker offered dealers a new incentive to increase up sales of the two brands.
Dealers were offered $7,000 to move remaining 2009 Pontiacs and Saturns to their rental or service vehicle fleets. The move allows dealers to take ownership of the vehicles, and sell them to customers at the deep discount.
GM hopes the incentives will not only clear lots of Saturns and Pontiacs, but also boost December sales figures by January 4, the last day for December sales, according to the Wall Street Journal.
Well yeah, he can live in ignorant bliss... or you can tell him what a bonehead he was in making that deal, so he doesn't throw another 2 grand out the window when he goes to buy another car. I'd give hm 6 months to enjoy his "great deal", then maybe shoot him an email about how another friend got the exact same car without having to pay all the inflated doc fees. Wise him up a bit on the tricks of the trade.
Yesterday I happened to see that King of the Hill episode snake or pinhead was talking about. Hank goes into the dealership and tells the salesman he's 'been lieing to Hank for the past 25 years... on getting good deals. When in reality Hank has been paying full sticker. The salesman says, "Well Hank... I'm a salesman." Hank replies, "Yeah, I know, which makes this even harder to understand". :P
Well, after a marathon grinding session that took 3+ hours
Sounds like he read my book, or at least the first 3 chapters.From what I've read on the G37 they are being heavily discounted..
The extra $500 delivery fee you mentioned sounds like the cost of transporting the car from another dealership... so that may be legit, though sounds a bit high. I'd throw in $200 for a legitimate doc fee. Prep fee...$900 to fill the gas tank... a bit high. So in reality your friend may have blown only a little over a grand.
This forum rules! Always willing to lend a hand. You guys rock. Happy New Year!
I agree! It's great to have so many helpful members who are willing to make the purchasing process smoother by answering the tough (and easy) questions. Education eliminates a lot of fears - thanks all!
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FYI by Illinois law the doc fee is capped at $151.65 so the dealer broke the law when they charged him a $600 doc fee. The odd amount is because it started at $150 max but was inflation-adjusted.
This forum rules! Always willing to lend a hand. You guys rock. Happy New Year!
Congrats to isell....I read your answer to the guys financing problem and I am sure it was a big help for him. It was very nice of you to give him such a full and reassuring explanation....and definitely proves once again, even though we all know it, that you are a sales professional
I have always used the 3-5 hour negotiating sessions. I call it the "3x5 Method". Though your friend did the same, he defeated the purpose once he arrived in the F&I office. One of those hours is reserved to resist the F&I. Though I might have lost part of the battle on the $600 doc fee (try to split it with them), your poor friend definitely lost the other $1,400. That's a real shame when you consider that this was his 3rd color choice with some unwanted options.
Did he do a trade? I wonder how badly he was taken on that one.
In anticipation of giving up the '03 Explorer, I'm beginning to look around at possibilities. I really like the looks of the Toyota FJ Cruiser. Have any of you driven or owned one? I would appreciate any and all opinions. I realize that I had announced my preference for the Honda Pilot, but the Cruiser caught my attention. Also, this purchase will be my wife's choice. She likes the looks of the Cruiser as well. Any thoughts?
Richard, Before you get serious about the FJ, spend some time in one. I found some things about it uncomfortable for me - but it may be OK for you. You might try a 4Runner or even a LR3 or LR4 depending on budget. It might surprise you as did a Jeep Commander we took in trade. A much better car than I had thought.
I'm not really certain what the "add-on" fees really were for. I didn't get that in-depth with him. He lost me on "preparation fees". Preparation for what? Maybe prep for some dealer installed options (in which case, he could have declined them since they weren't already on the car)?
My definition of "doc fee" and his dealerships's definition could be different. He said it was for doing all the paperwork. Sounded like a doc fee to me, but maybe there was more to it than what he mentioned. Loan origination fees, maybe? I really don't know, as I'm not familiar with IL's rules and regs.
He had no trade-in since he told me his wife dropped him off at the dealership and then went shopping (another hidden fee he had to pay, albeit indirectly via his wife's shopping spree :P ). I think he financed, but not really sure. I should have asked him what his % was on the loan, if he did finance. That could be another "gotcha".
Since he said he drove the car home the same day, if there was a fee to do a dealer trade, the trading dealer must have been pretty close. Since he said he was at the dealership the entire day, it's possible. I suppose that could be a legitimate charge. But, that's a pretty hefty "up charge" for such a service.
He was so focused on getting the best deal on the car itself, he lost site of the rest of what makes up a total deal.
Toyota FJ Cruiser. Have any of you driven or owned one? I would appreciate any and all opinions
Richard, you will find a really good review to go over on Edmunds (like to give them a friendly plug) at: 2008 FJ Cruiser
Says it is good for off roading, and the rear seat is very difficult to get into. But seems to be nice to drive.
I think I read a review that said it was a little on the rough side, like no carpets on the floor. They kind of remind me of a Hummer, but not as expensive, and a little more practical. Good luck!
Richard....a few years ago, my Mother and I bought a 4Runner for my sister (IIRC, it's a 2004). She has a couple of jobs, but one of them is to pick up 100s of newspapers from the publisher and drop them off to the different community's delivery people every day.
That 4Runner now has over 200K miles on it....still doing duty through all types of weather, on the road, every day, without a hitch. Except for normal maintenance and wear item replacement, it's been perfect.
Even now, I've driven it a couple of times in the last few months. While it doesn't drive/ride like it did when new, it's still running/driving well.
While there's nothing wrong with her current 4Runner, she's now starting to think she'll replace it with a new 4Runner. We've gone to look at the new '10 model ones, which have been redesigned from the model she has now.
Just one opinion, it's a very good choice in the midsize SUV market.
We also got a chance to look at the FJ. Pretty unique, very much a competitor to a Jeep CJ. Unless you do a significant amount of serious off roading, I think the 4Runner is a better choice. It's more civilized and nicer for every day use.
If you can find an '09, it's about the same as my sister's current 4Runner. The 2010s are the ones that have been redesigned.
Even the base SR5 models with 4WD are fairly well equipped.
I'm thinking an '09 SR5 could be had in the $28K range.....2010s around the $30K range. All of those have A/C, automatics, power everything.
One of the frequent posters over in the Luxury Lounge forum bought an FJ Cruiser a couple of years ago, only to get rid of it within months because that much-commented-on blind spot made it an impossible vehicle to live with.
He goes by "Tagman". You might consider asking him about his experience with the FJ.
He had no trade-in since he told me his wife dropped him off at the dealership and then went shopping (another hidden fee he had to pay, albeit indirectly via his wife's shopping spree ).
that doesn’t think that a customer should know what is going on with their car when it is brought in for service.
Do you like having somebody leaning over your shoulder while you are working on a project? Telling you to do this or that. Or telling you how it should be done?
Just joking a bit, but really, I understand you want to see something is done correctly, or you are just curious about your own car.....but, most people do not want to be watched while they are working....that's just the way it is.
And who cares avout what the underside of their car looks like? Oh...jmonroe does.
He'd go crazy at my bimmer dealer. You drive through a garage door but then you are greeted by a pretty lady. You can't get through the next door, only garage personnel go through that door.
You go into the office and talk to a service advisor. Then you can wonder into the lounge, make a coffee or latte, watch TV, read a magazine, or wonder around the showroom. You won't see your car until they drive it out a back door and leave it on the lot. They'll come over and ask you to look at the invoice, pay, you get your keys, then you are on the way. You won't get close to a "technician".
It's been said a million times.... "It's not the deal you get, it's the deal YOU THINK YOU GET" :surprise:
But in the end all that matters is that he is happy. I would bet he knew something was off but wanted to tell everyone he got a good deal.... but that wouldn't make sense because he admitted were agreed to pay for the "fees". Good for the sales man who put that together. Maybe your friend just got tired and gave up.
And who cares avout what the underside of their car looks like?
Oh...jmonroe does.
You are so right, I do. I guess you can say I’m naturally inquisitive; it must come from the field I work in.
I think everyone has heard how quiet a Genesis rides. I like it like that and I figured there had to be insulation on the bottom of the car and I’m sure there is but when I looked under the car while it was in my driveway I saw panels on a large portion of the under carriage. Like I said when the car was on the rack above the pit to have the oil changed, that gave me the opportunity to take a very good look at the under side of the car. The only place where there aren’t any panels is down the middle of the car where the driveshaft and exhaust pipes are routed. I’d say at least 2/3 of the under side of the car has panels. Now I don’t have to climb under there any more for that reason. I'm sure there will be other reasons to snoop around under there but at least that question has now been answered.
Do the other cars that have quiet rides do the same thing with panels under the car. It would be nice if those that have those cars would let me know because I doubt a repair place would let me snoop around under cars that aren’t mine just to satisfy my curiosity.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Also, got an email today from President and CEO Jim O'Sullivan of Mazda North America Operations, wanting me to take a survey on the recent service I had done at Oxmoor Mazda. I answered truthfully.
I used to get those emails as well. In the survey I received soon after the Mazdaspeed puked up a front strut as well as the turbo I still gave top marks to my dealer(Kings Mazda), but when they asked about the likelihood that I would buy another Mazda I answered "Zero". In the "Additional Comments" section I told them that both Louisville dealers were hopelessly inept and that it was beyond ridiculous that I had to drive over 100 miles to Cincinnati to obtain competent dealer service. That was the last survey I received from Mazda; I guess they assumed that they had lost me as a customer forever. And they were right.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Comments
Richard
Squeaks and rattles on vehicles with 80,00 miles....
I can say this much.... I definatley look at vehicles differently after working on te service side. I can't wait to figure what I am doing on thw service side. It is definately a lot of fun and busy.
GP
How are your guys with doing a proper oil change? They use the recommended oil viscosity or whatever is on sale? Also, do they let cusomers like jmonroe crawl down in the service bay to monitor oil changes?
That will definitely catch Richard's attention. :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
My dads brother owned a service station so getting maintenance would have been so easy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Glad to see you back. Sounds like keeping busy isn't a problem.
Since I think you are with Nissan- I can guess your 4 most common complaints in the service department. Please let us know if it is otherwise. :P
1.Brake and rotor problems--substandard and small brakes.
2.Steering wheel shakes/vibrations with tire problems[balancing and alignment]
3.CEL's - causes being O2 sensor/camshaft sensor/mass air flow sensor/catalytic converter
4.Horrible squeaks and rattles with no fixes-in Nissans with 8k and not 80k miles
Hope you have a great service department career and you service stories are very much appreciated ! :shades:
Richard
Absolutely no offense to you. Was just stating a reality nowadays. Cars are much more complex nowadays and each automaker has its own quirks and specs and requirements. It is just not possible for the average mechanic to know every info about every car. Just not possible in today's life.
And I did not generalize-- I did not say "ALL" are school drop outs etc-I said "MOST" are. Big difference there.
And here's an MSNBC story link which explains why regular general mechanics are finding it very tough if not impossible to repair and service today's cars. Hence I would always take my car to a dealer. Some competence is better than no competence.
link title
That was a really good link. Lots of good information about how it is more difficult for independent mechanics to compete with the franchised dealers....and how this will probably cause repair costs to go up.
Although BR might have run a Fast Lube with lots of graduate students working there, my experience is closer to yours. Minimum pay usually results in minimum effort, and there is constant overselling. They keep a computer record of your visits at the Fast Lube places, and scare you into buying and replacing parts constantly.
For example, you've gone 5000 miles sir, you probably need new wiper blades. I am sure a lot of people believe what the manager is telling them. They usually hire a really serious guy who makes you feel like your car is going to fall apart if you don't get the transmission fluids changed at 25k miles!
I always thought a good indie mechanic was a real find, and I have had quite a few. But, I get the feeling, that in most cases, it is safer to take the car to a dealer - one you can trust...and that is sometimes difficult to find.
(Just thought I'd stir things up a bit)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If you don’t ask you don’t get. I learned that right here at Edmunds. However, I will admit that if the guy at dealer’s quick lube center had stuck to his guns as he originally said and refused my request to watch and possibly learn something during the first oil change on the Genny, I would have been a lot better off by not having to see what I saw. What I learned was to not go back there again, EVER.
The manager originally used the standard line- “for insurance reasons we can’t allow customers to enter the service area”. How many times have we heard that one? To a large extent that is probably true but when I said, “no thanks I’m not interested in having that oil change done now” he changed his tune and allowed me to go down into the oil change pit. So, I guess you can say money talks. I didn’t hold a gun to his head.
FWIW, the instant I went down those steps, into that pit of darkness, I should have known nothing good could happen down there. The only light down there was the light that came from the floor above that seeped under the car. I should thank the car gods that my car has 18 inch wheels or there would have been even less light down there. I should have left, right there and then.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Put another posters name on that list. However, back in the 70’s when I got the best price for Michelin tires at K-Mart I also got the best balancing that I had to that point from a kid just out of an auto mechanics school. Those spin balancers were just coming on board and this kid was proud of his work and showed me how that gizmo worked. He wasn’t satisfied until he put the pointer right in the center of the green area on the indicator. When he did the first tire the pointer was not quite in the center and he said, “I can do better than that” and he moved the weight over just a hair. He then put the tape strip that is on the tires that shows it’s size etc. back on the tire after he balanced it just to show me how sensitive that balancer was and how even that small amount of tape would affect the balancing.
When the time came to have those tires balanced about 5,000 miles later, I went back and ask for that same kid. The manager said, “he not here anymore. I couldn’t keep him. He got a better paying job at a dealer”.
The guy that did my balancing then was only satisfied to see the unbalance light go off. He didn’t care where the pointer was as long it was in the green area and I had to insist that he spin the tire after the weight was put on to check for that. He originally was getting ready to take the tire off the balancer until I said, “aren’t you supposed to spin it again to check for the light and where the pointer is on the indicator”? (that young kid taught me that). He said, “I’ve been doing this for so long I know it’s OK”. I just wanted to be humored.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I ran a very busy shop for many years and never once did I have a cuistomer ask to do that and I would have turned the work away. That is no place for a customer!
Had you not stood there and eyeballed and coached that poor kid, your job would have been done in a satisfactory manner and you would have been content with the job. OK, maybe not every last dorp of oil may not have ocme out but it wouldn't have made even the slightest bit of difference in the life of your car.
The same applies to your wheel balance job. I know how those machines work. I trained people on the Norton machines when they first came out. You would have never been able to feel the slightest amount of difference between the two jobs.
This, is exactly why the majority of shops do not let customers watch except from a distance and even then, the mechanics hate it when they do this.
I once saw a sign...
LABOR RATES
50.00 per hour
75.00 per hour if you watch
100.00 per hour if you help
Seriously, if a person is that distrustful, they really ought to just do the work themselves.
Yup.
I didn't start out this way. I got here by watching what happens when other people do things. I can screw it up myself for free, and that's for the work that actually needs to be done. Replacing the Johnson rods or cleaning the fuel injectors (on a perfectly-running engine) falls into another category altogether.
Even when I did heavy maintenance on my cars (engine rebuilds, u-joint replacement, whatever), I had jobs that I had to sub out, but when I took the part or subassembly in to have the special tooling used, the people I went to seemed to understand that I more-or-less knew what was going on.
Having taken note of what the dealerships have recommended over the past decade or two on the various vehicles I've been responsible for, I'll refer you to the top of this post. The high-school dropouts who seem to populate the "Service Advisor" cohort appear to be clueless, at best.
If we could all trust people, there would be no such things as passwords, virus scans or locks (house, car, gate, boat . . .). I used to exist in that place, when I was much younger.
No more.
I didn’t want to coach him. The reason I wanted to be there was because I had not seen the underside of that car yet and just wanted to look around and figured this would be a good time to do that. Also, since this was the first oil chance on that car I thought I might be able to learn something from a professional oil changer, but as we all know by now, the only thing I learned is that some professional oil changers ain’t so professional. This one certainly wasn’t but since that’s the one I went to I had to make the best of the bad choice I made. Just because you don’t see what’s going on doesn’t mean it’s done right. I hope you’re not one that subscribes to the ostrich philosophy because I know I don’t.
I know how those machines work. I trained people on the Norton machines when they first came out. You would have never been able to feel the slightest amount of difference between the two jobs.
I never said I would be able to detect the difference in the balance of the tire with and without the tape on it but the machine could and that is what this kid wanted to show me. This kid was very proud of that machine and just as proud of what he could do with it.
Seriously, if a person is that distrustful, they really ought to just do the work themselves.
Like I’ve already said, I wasn’t distrustful I just wanted to snoop around under my car but what I saw while I was there wasn’t at all satisfying. As for doing something myself, yeah, I do, whenever I can and if I could justify the cost of a tire changer and spin balancer I would have those in my garage too. Right next to my socket sets.
One last thing that sign with the labor rates are all over the place. One of my brothers has a sign shop and he’s made signs for several repair shops in the area (in fact he has one in his own shop) and that labor rate of $100 to help is a bargain. The shops around here want $500 if you want to help. You must have been looking at an old sign or you hang out in shops with incompetent mechanics who actually want the help.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
happy new year!
and keep us up to date on the 'after the sale' story.
when my wife got her saab years ago, it vibrated on the highway after we drove it out of the dealership.
i was first in line at the service dept the next morning.
Thank you JM.... another reason to go to a dealership and have it done proffessionaly.
Someone asked earlier what kind of oil do we use??? We use conventional, but if you want semi or full synthetic we have that too. (pretty sure that was obvious though) .... :surprise:
On the sales side you deal with 1 - 3 people (or groups of people) a day. On the service side I see from 15 - 25 people (or groups) plus vendors and "salespeople"
So by the end of the day sometimes i might forget one person or so.... So far this week we found a kitten and a mouse in the engine compartment... still living. Mouse in the filter and kitten sitting right on the car battery or very close. The mechanic opened the hood and the kitten jumped out him......LOL Scared the [non-permissible content removed] right out of him. I heard the scream "WHat the *&($" ..... I thought he had a heart attack, his face was so white.
I can't say it enough.... especially after being on the service side. GET THE WARRANTY !!!! You don't know what you are missing.
Someone was mentioning what the 4 biggest things i see....
1) $19.95 oil changes ...... "Yes sir, we keep up this state of the art equipment with $19.95 oil changes. And we don't charge you for the coffee."
2) Sqeaks and rattles..... No fun at all for anyone.
3) Brake jobs should be done when neccesary.... "Yes it may be expensive, but don't you have peace of mind knowing it is done with quality factory parts with trained technicians for your specific vehicle."
4) Recalls.... I see your car pull in for a oil change and I am thankfull for the 2 recalls on your vehicle
Alright I ran out of ideas.... Way to many stories to tell. Mistakes i made....
Oh wait I can't believe I get to type this. A gentleman comes inside the building, through the showroom side. He asks how he can get out. (his english not so well) I point to the door and suggest he go that way. I was in the moddle of something. To the right of the door is two garage automatic garage doors. I see out of my left eye that he is trying to lift the "power"automatic garage door. He was in the squat position trying to move it. I bit my tounge halfway through a laugh and ran over to the "doorway" and opened it for him while saying "SIR".... "This way".... He figured it out.
GP
I have to agree. We have a area of the shop with big picture windows exactly for that reason. We know it. But you really have to the windows and really look around. Now no one ever minds if someone comes up and checks things out. But when people start peering or one our favorites.... Tries to act they aren't looking. I have seen people poking there heads every few moments. (had to see it for myself) But it does make some techs unwary. Or uncomfortable.... for no reason. May be it is just everyones own insecurities.
GP
Had a nail in rear tire of my MPV, took it into a Big O tire store today to have it plugged. They have a large picture window between the waiting area and the service bay. In a seated position you can't see much, but I see the van being driven in. After a few minutes I stand up and see the service tech (i.e grease monkey) searching the floor boards and looking into my glove compartment. Well, I think, I hope he's looking for the lugnut key I forgot to give them. I walk in the service area, ask the gentlemen if he's looking for the key, he looks confused, doesn't speak english apparently, I motion toward the tires saying key. He nods, and I dig the key out from under a secret compartment drawer under the passenger seat.
From a customers point of view, it's much more reassuring that you can see the work being done (partially), and the shop isn't trying to hide anything. It's also more entertaining, informative and relaxing watching a mechanic work... than reading a 3 month old magazine or watching Regis and Kathy Lee.
Also, got an email today from President and CEO Jim O'Sullivan of Mazda North America Operations, wanting me to take a survey on the recent service I had done at Oxmoor Mazda. I answered truthfully. Disappointed that I wasn't greeted promptly. The customer service area is actually in the service bay. When those huge doors open up to let customers drive in, it gets pretty cold. The two service advisors had their desks in that area... wearing their winter coats. The customer waiting area was a bit chilly as well. The 10% discount I was suppose to receive wasn't on the final bill. The service clerk apologized and gave me the discount when I reminded her. Overall, on a scale of 1-10 I gave the dealership an 8 on my overall satisfaction.
I don't know why you are thanking me, the place where I went for the oil change WAS at a certified dealerships quick lube center. Do you guys have one of those too?
Good to hear from you again. I'm hoping the hosts will allow Stories from the Service Frontlines here because I'm sure a lot of us would be interested in hearing some of those.
Isn't it a shame what those grease monkeys do to those pretty new cars that you sales guys sold?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
This forum rules! Always willing to lend a hand. You guys rock. Happy New Year!
Anyway, he's back at it. And again, he's trying to buy an Infiniti G. Forget for a moment that prices probably rose between the '08-'09 model year, he's throwing out the same number that didn't net him a car last year. Aside from what I would consider an "undoable" number (reinforced by the lack of any dealer to accept it), he's also got some pretty strange belief that all dealers have 30% markup on any new car. For example, it's his belief that a car with an MSRP of $30K should be sold for $20K.
I've seen deals where you might get close to that line of thinking. For example, I know that the Caddy dealerships around me are selling their demos and service loaners at a steep discount. Yes, they have miles on them. And, they've never been titled. So, technically they're new cars. Plus, if you are currently in a GMAC lease that expires by March 2010, GM will give another $4K off. In short, it's possible to buy a loaded up CTS demo/loaner that has an MSRP of around $50K, for somewhere around the $35K range. Again, these have miles but are considered new cars.
Aside from the examples from GM, I don't know that 30% off MSRP on another brand is anywhere close to a number that will get a deal done on a new car.
But, that's not what he's trying to buy. He's stuck on a G sedan with AWD, loaded with an MSRP somewhere north of $40K and change. He wants to buy it for $28K, and no dealer is biting. He can't figure it out.
So, after taking him through all the pricing sites, listing rebates, invoice, MSRP, etc, I tell him he might, maybe, perhaps, if the stars line up correctly.....be able to make a deal in the $33K-$35K range. That's considerably higher than his original offer.
Spoke to him on the phone yesterday. He relayed that he finally found a dealership willing to sell him something close to what he wants (color is his 3rd choice, some dealer add-on options he could live without) for a number a little less than my high range, and a little more than my low range of what I thought would do a deal. He dismissed the "GG way" (that is, making a final offer including tax, title, license, and all fees) since he believed it was too complicated. I even suggested he figure taxes, license and a reasonable doc fee in his number, go to the bank, get a cashier's check for exactly that amount, and present it to the dealership as his offer....truly "out the door". He didn't want to do that either. Well, after a marathon grinding session that took 3+ hours. He signed on the dotted line and is the proud owner of a new 2009 G37x (nice cars, by the way).
As we were talking about his deal, I congratulated him on his very nice, new car. I also assured him he got a good deal. But, as I asked him how things went in the F&I office, he said "it was the normal stuff"...meaning a pitch for extended warranty, tire insurance, etc.
When I asked him about the kind of fees they charged, he said there was a $500 delivery fee (on top of the delivery fee that was already on the MSRP), a $900 fee they said they needed to charge for some sort of "preparation" (huh?). And, a $600 doc fee. I cringed when I heard this, but didn't say anything except congratulations.
Let's take a tally, shall we? He spent a year looking for a car. Negotiated with numerous dealerships. Spent a whole day grinding and waiting for delivery of the car he actually bought, which was "not exactly" what he really wanted. It took the dealership about 15 minutes to add $2K to the deal, and he signed off on it as "normal stuff".
He's happy. That's all that matters.
Those kind of last minute addon fees are a crime.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The cars may be hard to find
Updated: Tuesday, 29 Dec 2009, 12:42 PM EST
Published : Tuesday, 29 Dec 2009, 12:42 PM EST
By Joe LaFurgey
GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - You could drive a shiny new GM Pontiac or Saturn off the lot for $7,000 less than your best deal.
If you can find a shiny new Pontiac or Saturn.
Both GM brands have been discontinued as the automaker continues to shed costs in the wake of last summer's bankruptcy.
Two weeks ago, the automaker offered dealers a new incentive to increase up sales of the two brands.
Dealers were offered $7,000 to move remaining 2009 Pontiacs and Saturns to their rental or service vehicle fleets. The move allows dealers to take ownership of the vehicles, and sell them to customers at the deep discount.
GM hopes the incentives will not only clear lots of Saturns and Pontiacs, but also boost December sales figures by January 4, the last day for December sales, according to the Wall Street Journal.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Well yeah, he can live in ignorant bliss... or you can tell him what a bonehead he was in making that deal, so he doesn't throw another 2 grand out the window when he goes to buy another car. I'd give hm 6 months to enjoy his "great deal", then maybe shoot him an email about how another friend got the exact same car without having to pay all the inflated doc fees. Wise him up a bit on the tricks of the trade.
Yesterday I happened to see that King of the Hill episode snake or pinhead was talking about. Hank goes into the dealership and tells the salesman he's 'been lieing to Hank for the past 25 years... on getting good deals. When in reality Hank has been paying full sticker. The salesman says, "Well Hank... I'm a salesman." Hank replies, "Yeah, I know, which makes this even harder to understand". :P
Well, after a marathon grinding session that took 3+ hours
Sounds like he read my book, or at least the first 3 chapters.From what I've read on the G37 they are being heavily discounted..
The extra $500 delivery fee you mentioned sounds like the cost of transporting the car from another dealership... so that may be legit, though sounds a bit high. I'd throw in $200 for a legitimate doc fee. Prep fee...$900 to fill the gas tank... a bit high. So in reality your friend may have blown only a little over a grand.
You know some very weird people, but at least they all seem to be buying cars.
How is the lady doing with her Honda?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I agree! It's great to have so many helpful members who are willing to make the purchasing process smoother by answering the tough (and easy) questions. Education eliminates a lot of fears - thanks all!
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Congrats to isell....I read your answer to the guys financing problem and I am sure it was a big help for him. It was very nice of you to give him such a full and reassuring explanation....and definitely proves once again, even though we all know it, that you are a sales professional
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Did he do a trade? I wonder how badly he was taken on that one.
Richard
Richard
Before you get serious about the FJ, spend some time in one. I found some things about it uncomfortable for me - but it may be OK for you. You might try a 4Runner or even a LR3 or LR4 depending on budget. It might surprise you as did a Jeep Commander we took in trade. A much better car than I had thought.
They have a HORRIBLE blind spot that people can't live with.
My definition of "doc fee" and his dealerships's definition could be different. He said it was for doing all the paperwork. Sounded like a doc fee to me, but maybe there was more to it than what he mentioned. Loan origination fees, maybe? I really don't know, as I'm not familiar with IL's rules and regs.
He had no trade-in since he told me his wife dropped him off at the dealership and then went shopping (another hidden fee he had to pay, albeit indirectly via his wife's shopping spree :P ). I think he financed, but not really sure. I should have asked him what his % was on the loan, if he did finance. That could be another "gotcha".
Since he said he drove the car home the same day, if there was a fee to do a dealer trade, the trading dealer must have been pretty close. Since he said he was at the dealership the entire day, it's possible. I suppose that could be a legitimate charge. But, that's a pretty hefty "up charge" for such a service.
He was so focused on getting the best deal on the car itself, he lost site of the rest of what makes up a total deal.
You deserve it. Happy New Year!
Richard, you will find a really good review to go over on Edmunds (like to give them a friendly plug) at:
2008 FJ Cruiser
Says it is good for off roading, and the rear seat is very difficult to get into. But seems to be nice to drive.
I think I read a review that said it was a little on the rough side, like no carpets on the floor. They kind of remind me of a Hummer, but not as expensive, and a little more practical. Good luck!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Let me finish that sentence for you since you didn’t end it with a period (.).
that doesn’t think that a customer should know what is going on with their car when it is brought in for service. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That 4Runner now has over 200K miles on it....still doing duty through all types of weather, on the road, every day, without a hitch. Except for normal maintenance and wear item replacement, it's been perfect.
Even now, I've driven it a couple of times in the last few months. While it doesn't drive/ride like it did when new, it's still running/driving well.
While there's nothing wrong with her current 4Runner, she's now starting to think she'll replace it with a new 4Runner. We've gone to look at the new '10 model ones, which have been redesigned from the model she has now.
Just one opinion, it's a very good choice in the midsize SUV market.
We also got a chance to look at the FJ. Pretty unique, very much a competitor to a Jeep CJ. Unless you do a significant amount of serious off roading, I think the 4Runner is a better choice. It's more civilized and nicer for every day use.
If you can find an '09, it's about the same as my sister's current 4Runner. The 2010s are the ones that have been redesigned.
Even the base SR5 models with 4WD are fairly well equipped.
I'm thinking an '09 SR5 could be had in the $28K range.....2010s around the $30K range. All of those have A/C, automatics, power everything.
He goes by "Tagman". You might consider asking him about his experience with the FJ.
He had no trade-in since he told me his wife dropped him off at the dealership and then went shopping (another hidden fee he had to pay, albeit indirectly via his wife's shopping spree ).
Ahh, the "jmonroe" fee :P
Do you like having somebody leaning over your shoulder while you are working on a project? Telling you to do this or that. Or telling you how it should be done?
Just joking a bit, but really, I understand you want to see something is done correctly, or you are just curious about your own car.....but, most people do not want to be watched while they are working....that's just the way it is.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
And who cares avout what the underside of their car looks like?
Oh...jmonroe does.
Anyone else? I sure don't give a ratszass!
Oh...jmonroe does.
He'd go crazy at my bimmer dealer. You drive through a garage door but then you are greeted by a pretty lady. You can't get through the next door, only garage personnel go through that door.
You go into the office and talk to a service advisor. Then you can wonder into the lounge, make a coffee or latte, watch TV, read a magazine, or wonder around the showroom. You won't see your car until they drive it out a back door and leave it on the lot. They'll come over and ask you to look at the invoice, pay, you get your keys, then you are on the way. You won't get close to a "technician".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
It's been said a million times.... "It's not the deal you get, it's the deal YOU THINK YOU GET" :surprise:
But in the end all that matters is that he is happy. I would bet he knew something was off but wanted to tell everyone he got a good deal.... but that wouldn't make sense because he admitted were agreed to pay for the "fees". Good for the sales man who put that together. Maybe your friend just got tired and gave up.
GP
When I've been gotten that is EXACTLY how it happened!
Oh...jmonroe does.
You are so right, I do. I guess you can say I’m naturally inquisitive; it must come from the field I work in.
I think everyone has heard how quiet a Genesis rides. I like it like that and I figured there had to be insulation on the bottom of the car and I’m sure there is but when I looked under the car while it was in my driveway I saw panels on a large portion of the under carriage. Like I said when the car was on the rack above the pit to have the oil changed, that gave me the opportunity to take a very good look at the under side of the car. The only place where there aren’t any panels is down the middle of the car where the driveshaft and exhaust pipes are routed. I’d say at least 2/3 of the under side of the car has panels. Now I don’t have to climb under there any more for that reason. I'm sure there will be other reasons to snoop around under there but at least that question has now been answered.
Do the other cars that have quiet rides do the same thing with panels under the car. It would be nice if those that have those cars would let me know because I doubt a repair place would let me snoop around under cars that aren’t mine just to satisfy my curiosity.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I used to get those emails as well. In the survey I received soon after the Mazdaspeed puked up a front strut as well as the turbo I still gave top marks to my dealer(Kings Mazda), but when they asked about the likelihood that I would buy another Mazda I answered "Zero". In the "Additional Comments" section I told them that both Louisville dealers were hopelessly inept and that it was beyond ridiculous that I had to drive over 100 miles to Cincinnati to obtain competent dealer service.
That was the last survey I received from Mazda; I guess they assumed that they had lost me as a customer forever. And they were right.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive