Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Stories from the Sales Frontlines
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The problem with that is that you have access to your e-mail and we don't. So you will see it an no one else will. You need to save it someplace on the internet where anyone can see it then copy it here.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
From my perspective, best thing Toyota can do at this juncture is to admit that they screwed up. Take their lumps, and move as quickly as they can to rectify the situation. And, that the buck stops with them. North Amercian customers are a forgiving lot. Don't know if the same can be said for customers in China and Europe, though.
All that said, I still think it would behoove Toyota to offer some extended warranty plan to all Toyota buyers/customers. Yeah, it would be expensive. But, it's going to take them awhile to regain a reputation for quality that they spent decades building.
10M recalls is a whole lot of cars. They need to get some positive publicity pronto. A big dose of humble pie would be a good place to start.
Well, here's my experience- from way back in 2006:
>>While in Cincinnati today we decided to check out the CPO inventory at Jake Sweeney BMW as well as The BMW Store. I had checked both of their web sites and each of them had at least one car I was very, VERY interested in. We first stopped at Sweeney's, where we walked around the CPO lot and found the two 540i Sports that I liked. We walked across the lot and through the CPO showroom and received no offers of assistance- not counting the lot jockey who asked me if I wanted the keys to a car that I WASN'T looking at. I guess jeans, a BMW CCA golf shirt, and a BMW F1 jacket don't meet Jake's dress code. After about fifteen minutes of this I decided enough was enough; as we were leaving we walked by a sales guy who had been ignoring us while he chatted on his cell phone. As we passed him he heard me tell my wife that we were moving on to the BMW Store. So NOW he asks, "You mean you folks haven't been helped?" "Just forget it." I replied. His response? "Have a nice day. We're busy too, you know." Nice try, but I'd just walked through the CPO showroom and there was maybe one customer in the whole place. What a joke.
Off we went to the BMW Store, arriving just in time to see the one car I really wanted to drive -a 2003 CPO 530i manual Sport- being delivered to its new owners. At least the sales staff gave us first class treatment- too bad they had nothing else I wanted. <<<
I sent a letter describing our experience to the Sales Manager at Sweeney and received no reply.
As for The BMW Store, we bought one new car there and have since looked at several others. We've always been treated with courtesy and respect. Their only downside is they never seem to have any used Bimmers that really interest me.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If thats the case GM still should be #1
Soon Ford will be.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
In China they sentenced the executives in the tainted milk scandal to death.
Wonder if they do that in Japan....to the Toyota execs.
One thing I am wondering about....is if a car goes out of control now, that everything is out in the open, can you sue Toyota for $billions?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
But, with the 3 & 5 series about to get reworked in the 2011 model year, I may find something that floats my boat in my price range.
I'll let you know how it goes.
It works both ways though because if one of my Caravan shopppers go look at a Sienna I'm sure that the Toyota salespeople will be quick to point out the negatives about our products whetever they may be.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
One of my neighbors is the General Manager of a Nissan Dealership....When gas was $4 per gallon, he was buying used SUVs for $4000 to $6000 cheaper than usual while he couldn't keep Altima Hybrids in stock. Gas went down eventually, he wished he had bought more used SUVs at rock bottom prices & didn't order so many new Altima Hybrids for the next year.
We have a 1 year old used Camry Hybrid in stock that's priced right and we just can't seem to get rid of it. Yet we have a shortage of full size Ram trucks with Hemi V8 because they sell so well. A year ago we had a ton of trucks and we couldn't get enough ex rental Yarises to sell. :surprise:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Some people in a couple of these forums seem to be delighting in Toyots'a troubles but that's expected. Anytime a major force in the market has a setback there will be people who take great delight.
I feel for the good stores and good people who are suffering over something they had no control over.
I'm afraid the shockwaves from this will be long lasting and devestating to a lot of people. Good people who support families.
Wow, you just covered the only two Mazda dealerships in my area. I know about Oxmoor's reputation. What have you heard/experienced with Neil Huffman?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
But it is a greeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat job.
The last time I dealt with Huffman's sales people I was looking at a new VW; their attitude was, "We don't have what you want? Too bad."
As for parts, I called Huffman Mazda about some touch-up paint. Before I could give the guy the paint code he interrupted and told me -in his best "Hee Haw" drawl- "We don't carry none uh that kinda stuff."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
That should be "accepted"... not "excepted".
Jip "Grammar Cop... working the 1st shift"
I am sleeping with the enemy
I'd sleep lightly though, Nissan employees will do anything to get a "leg up" on the competition. :surprise:
-Consumer perception about safe and reliable vehicles. Not everyone is car saavy like the group here on Edmunds. Most consumers don't know auto parts so to them a faulty accelerator in Toyotas that may lead to accidents means Toyota = unsafe/accidents. Just like if I heard that for example "IceBox model A, B, C, E, G, I" fridges have a faulty switch that lead to fires, and I know nothing about fridges, I'd stay away from "IceBox" fridges altogether. Since the Toyota recall involves so many models, it's easier for people just to avoid Toyotas altogether. Even folks that still believe in and want to buy Toyotas can't because of the mandatory suspension of sales. You can ber loyal to a brand but if you need a vehicle now, you're not gonna wait 2 months until issues get resolved. You'll buy a competitor's vehicle.
-The halt in sales, albeit temporary will hurt the company, the dealers, and shareholders. It will take some time to engineer and make replacement parts, and 2-10 million kits is not a small number. If Toyota is starting with retrofitting the vehicles on assemble lines and leaving dealer inventory until later, this will tick off dealers as they're stuck with unselleable inventory.
Even a month of idling sales and production can have a devastating effect. Many folks these days, especially commissioned sales people that do "average sales" live paycheck to paycheck. A month or two of no income can be a disaster for these folks.
-Even if everything is fixed and retrofitted, the current consumer perception will have an effect on Toyota used values. Some consumers may want to get rid of them at any price, and some dealers won't pay top dollar for them because they don't want to get stuck with hard to sell inventory.
So now to many consumers Toyotas lost their great resale values, don't have the quality and safety that they once had, and there's an added risk of accidents. Unfortunately this perception will keep people away for some time.
Now I see how Mako1a wants out of his Avalon and why his wife doesn't even want to step foot in it.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Toyotas are simply too dangerous; if I had to drive one I'd die of boredom... :P
(Excluding twin-turbo Supras and 1st. Gen. MR2s, of course
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
True, that is what is happening to me.
The RAV4 is noisy, has numb steering, has an all gray plastic interior that looks like it was last used on a Star Wars toy, with little plastic dials, very bumpy ride.
I don't get it!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I for one am looking forward to the next few months for superb deals on Toyotas- I am on the prowl for a Camry/Prius or a Sienna :shades:
These people will probably think they are doing Toyota a major favor by taking distressed merchandise off their hands.
I think the sharks are smelling blood in the water.
In New England, we are used to driving in snow and ice, but it's usually not too bad.
A couple of weeks ago, we drove out to western Ohio and back, and that was worse than I was used to.
In December 2008, I drove out to Michigan, and the waether on our trip was also miserable.
My wife and daughter are headed back to Indiana and Michigan to visit a couple of schools. When asked I wanted to go too, I declined.
I've had enough of driving out to the mid west in the winter for a while. :sick:
On the bright side, I think my wife is going to really enjoy a couple of the features in her '09 Escape; the Sat/Nav and Sat radio.
We had that when Chrysler was restructuring, people offering ridiculous offers.
I was helping a friend sell his 08 Grand Cherokee Diesel privately, and one reply was that "because Chrysler was bankrupt" my offer is $XXXXX (about 40% less than asking price).
The reply he received from my friend was that if he's so concerned about bankruptcy then why even look at any Chrysler product?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Do you sales guys think there might another spike in used vehicle values, like there was after C4C?
752-EGGS was his phone number for the Chevy store IIRC>
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Competition is always good.. If Toyota loses its value or reputation real bad over this overblown paranoid issue,then you can bet that all Hondas will sell for MSRP or close to it.
I went to Mercedes Benz dealer last week for an overview of MB. C is small and all of theirs were AWD which I didn't like. E class was nice, but started at 48k and went up to about 68k. S class was great but were over my price range starting at 75k to 100k plus.
MB was out of the running so off to BMW. Now that is a fine car! Finally something I could actually afford that would take my mind off giving up the Avalon.
3 Series is too small for me, but indeed nice with great driver handling and choice of RWD or AWD. Now the 5 Series is me. I liked everything about that except the price with options. Those BMW options can come in at half the base price easily.
No point in looking at the 7 Series. Over my head in size, price and class. :shades:
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Richard
Richard
Glad you were able to appreciate the handling of a BMW. Once you try it, I don't think it is easy to get used to anything else, though Mercedes and Audi are very good in their own way.
I will say, the 3 Series and C Class are smaller than what most North Americans want. I would suggest trying an Audi, more room inside for a little less money. I like the Audi a lot, and the salesman explained it falls between a BMW which is big on handling, and a Mercedes which majors in luxury.
If you really like the 5 Series consider a used one.....I would prefer a one or two year old BMW to a new Avalon any time. Also, there is lots of room in a BMW X3 or a Mercedes GLK, and the price might be within range.
A few more thoughts;
*All wheel drive might have a downside (more expensive, lower gas mileage), but it does add to safer driving on wet slick roads,
*I think the superior handling along with all the best safety devices on the market make these the safest vehicles you can own, and the added cost probably isn't as great as it sounds. You can easily keep these cars for 6 to 10 years, which might work out to $1 or $2000 more a year......but you will be getting a car you will love driving, and will be one of the safest cars on the road.
One more thought, but it isn't for everyone is a new Taurus. From what I have read it is extremely safe, and has some of the latest technology, and handles nicely, and should be within your budget.
I think though, once you drive a BMW, it will be difficult to match that driving experience.....with a Mercedes and Audi being very close.
That is great that you are out there being proactive.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Back in my younger days I had fun doing donuts in parking lots, but that was a long time ago. These days we listen to the scanner and hear who's out driving in the snow and what wrecker service is going to go get them.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I had a 325i for a rental car last business trip to Italy. (2000 or 2001) I took it to Sorrento from Rome on the Autostrada (like the autobahn-full out on the open roads away from cities). Superb handling. And a suspension system unlike any other car.
Quite a car. Especially on tight curves and twisty city streets.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
a couple of years ago, when I had my focus, during a snow storm, i was jealous of some Audi drivers that went up a steep hill I had to drive also.
Last year, I drove my AWD Fusion up the same hill under the same circumstances.
It is worth it. How many times can I shorten my commute by half an hour in 2 minutes?
going gets really tough? drive the Explorer. :shades:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My wife's 2004 X3 is just brilliant in snow or mud; almost unstoppable. After a heavy rain about one foot of mud washed across our driveway due to a new access road being under construction. I drove the X3 through it without the slightest hint of drama. The only downside was that it took me almost $10 worth of quarters to get the undercarriage clean at the coin-op car wash; even the brake calipers had a thick coating of mud... :surprise:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
We were supposed to be north of the snow storm today. Well, all day I was indeed north of it - at my brother's place about 2 hours north of here. Not a flake. Heading out of his driveway at 9 I get a message from my wife saying to watch the roads when I got down here. Turns out it had been snowing for like 8 hours down here at that point.
I drove probably 3/4 of the way down no problem at all then the roads were a touch slick. By the time I got into town I'm driving through several inches of the stuff.
Home all safe and sound but a bit of an adventure. If my daughter didn't go away for the weekend with the van keys in her pocket I'd have likely taken the Accord which is much better in snow than the Celica. I didn't want to leave my wife with the Celica. Oh, well.
Richard
You'll need an oil change every 15k miles...maybe once a year. 4 year bumper to bumper warranty. You'll spend less time doing the traveling than you will getting oil changes every 5K. And, you will enjoy the drive.
. Superb handling. And a suspension system unlike any other car.
You said it! If it is feasible financially, why go through life with anything less?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Dealers are out more money....and they can't collect the ad fees from the customer if they aren't selling cars. :sick:
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
As the sales person said, "no way you can get this under $40K....this is a $60K car new". Probably so. But, doesn't hit my price parameters so I crossed that off the list.
They did have a couple of CPO '09 335i w/xdrive I looked at. Again, all loaded up. Less than 10K miles. Could have got one of those for mid-high $30s I'm thinking. But, I want something bigger.
I keep coming back to the TL. Looks like that's what I'm going to have to go after.
I feel badly for the dealerships. I truly do. But, Toyota doesn't seem to be doing them any favors.
Assuming Toyota will get this on the right track (when, is a different story), the only way I can see for them to get traffic back into their dealers is to offer large incentives and probably some sort of extended warranties. Short of that, this issue is going to linger for a long time.
I personally don't buy the corporate line that the only "good" Toyotas, where there is no recall, is in Japan. Denso (Japan based) and CTS (U.S. based) both made the accelerator assemblies. And, according to both companies, they built them exactly to spec, based on Toyota's design and engineering.
So, the rest of the world (at least North America, China and Europe) received defective goods, and only Japan got "good units"? Sorry, I'm not buying that.
News article said there were world-wide recalls including Denso. They were all built to spec given by toyota to suppliers and merchandise was inspected by toyota before being put into cars.
My personal opinion is toyota could have helped the public AND their dealers by fessing up to the problem sooner when it wasn't so acute. I personally believe the huge spin about the floor mats as a red herring for the real problem has backfired. The sticking throttle pedal didn't get mentioned by Mr. Haggerty in the ABC News report who drove his toyota to the dealer by alternating neutral and drive.
Drivers have not said, "My pedal was halfway down and wouldn't come up." Instead, it's that the car accelerates on its own.
My sympathies to all the toyota dealerships except for one of them in the Dayton area which has the most arrogant attitude I've run into in shopping through the years.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oh, you don't know what you're missing. As a kid growing up here in snowy upstate NY the first thing I did after an ice storm was to volunteer to run errands for my folks. On the way to the store I'd pick up about a dozen friends and stuff them into dad's Dodge station wagon. Then it was over to the nearest big parking lot for some of the best skid and slide fun ever. You have not lived until you have spun a big 'ol Dodge around in circles about a hundred times with a bunch of screaming teens inside. Nutty stuff for sure but because of the practice I got doing it I've never had a skid related accident.
BTW, while all you southerners are getting buried there is barely a dusting of snow on the ground up here where I live. :P
Of course it is 1 above zero right now.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Richard
So far, so good. but then he follows up with "you certainly don't want to put your family in danger driving that Toyota so we'll protect you." I'm telling you, if I drove foreign cars, I wouldn't buy a Honda from that dude for 20 cents on the dollar. This disgusts me.
Richard
Richard - I don't think it could put that out of business only because they have humongous piles of cash squirreled away. At one point they had enough cash on hand that they could have bought GM. Certainly not doing so was a wise move.
I wouldn't be stunned if I was wrong though.