Stories from the Sales Frontlines

lrguy44

Remember the Pinto? That was much more life threatening and taking than the current Toyota problem but Ford survived. Then there was the Ford Explorer/Firestone fiasco. My brother even wound up rolling his when a tire failed. Thank God they were not injured, but some died and again Ford recovered. There are recalls every week. After Toyota solves the problem something will come along and all will be forgotten. We live in a crisis of the moment world.

oldfarmer50

"...we couldn't get enough ex rental Yarises to sell..."

You should load up on them now. The Yaris I drove had such wimpy acceleration that if the gas pedal got stuck to the floor I'm not sure I would notice the difference. :lemon:

sterlingdog

Greetings to my policeman friend! I wish that you posted more because your posts always show such good thought and common sense.

As for the Honda dealer, that is really the extreme for unethical advertising. Like you, I wouldn't purchase a car from him if I had to walk to work!

Richard

sterlingdog

"We live in a crisis of the moment world."

Excellent point. People forget, forgive, and move on down the road. I used to tell my students that the world fails to learn much from history. That is why it is repeated so often.

Richard

oldfarmer50

"...great time to buy a Toyota..."

So you won't get mad when I roll in to your store and ask for 50% off sticker?

houdini1

In today's fragile economy I guess anything is possible but imo I don't think Toyota is anywhere close to going out of biz.

Don't be going outside if you can help it. Ice is very dangerous to slip/fall on, especially if you don't have much experience with it !!

graphicguy

imid....you and I are of the same mind. I think the whole "floor mats" deal was little more than an "aw shucks....it's just silly 'ole floor mats....nothing to worry about" was an arrogant gesture trying to minimize what was obviously a much bigger issue.

I'm still thinking that before this is all over, Lexus and Scion are going to be affected.

What's even sadder, as others mentioned, trade values will be a buggaboo for those who own the affected cars.

Now, some of the piling on by competitive brand dealers is a bit much. It's a cut throat business, though. Make hay when and how you can.

driver100

. I used to tell my students that the world fails to learn much from history. That is why it is repeated so often

That sounds like a Yogi Berraism..........history gets repeated many times

but, I know what you meant.

oldfarmer50

"...do that trick with a school bus..."

In fact I did use those skills a few years ago in an ice/snow storm and my school bus skidded sideways down a hill towards a line of cars coming the other way. At the last minute I tapped the gas (yes the gas) and it broke the lock the rear wheels were in. Once the rears were turning again I was able to counter steer out of it and avoided hitting a bunch of people. I would have never had the instinct to do that if I hadn't clowned around as a kid.

driver100

Could Toyota's current problem actually be enough to put the company out of business?

Pintos and rolling over Explorers didn't put Ford out of business.

Exploding gas tanks (probably not true) and out of control Corvairs didn't put GM out of business.

Sticky gas pedals (probably false) in Audi's didn't put them out of business.

Hoever, in this day and age Toyota has to come up with a solution fast, and they have to prove the quality will be there.

Incidentally, people are eating hamburgers, lettuce, spinach and strawberries once again. Probably most people in the US don't even know there is a problem.

driver100

Once the rears were turning again I was able to counter steer out of it and avoided hitting a bunch of people. I would have never had the instinct to do that if I hadn't clowned around as a kid

Are you going to tell your son about "the good old days when you did donuts on the ice"?

isellhondas

Yes, shame on that Honda dealr for advertising like that.

Tlak about gutter advertising!

deltheking

Well that`s the nature of the game nowadays..Make hay while the sun shines !! Illegal -no. Unethical-depends on which side of the fence you are sitting.Sad but true nowadays !
This is downright cut throat competition.And another reason why Toyota should fix things fast and get back to making quality cars...

oldfarmer50

"...Are you going to tell you son about "the good old days"..."

I already have...in a highly redacted form.

imidazol97

> I don't think it could put that out of business only because they have humongous piles of cash squirreled away.

Those humongous piles of cash represent overcharges for their vehicles that they were able to charge because people thought they were getting a car that safe and reliable.

oldfarmer50

Considering the perceptions many people have about Toyota now, how would you deal with some of the low offers which are bound to come on used cars

Let's say you have a model not affected by the current problem sitting on your lot which you have $10K into. Let's say the retail price is $12.5K. How far down would you think you'd have to go to overcome the hysteria? Would you take a loss or hold on to it hoping the panic will fade?

roadburner

Are you going to tell your son about "the good old days when you did donuts on the ice"?

Back when I was driving my Mazdaspeed 3 my 15 year-old son would advise me of my chances when another car would challenge me; comments such as:
"I don't think he's that fast Dad, you can take him."
"Better be careful, that Charger is an SRT8."
"That guy's an idiot, you are gonna smoke him!"
Unfortunately, he would sometimes forget and make those comments while my wife was in the car... :sick:

houdini1

If I was in the market I would be on a good Toyota deal like a Guinna hen on a cut worm !!

I would get me some pop sickle sticks for shims and a can of WD-40 and be good to go.

explorerx4

I think Toyota will recover, but this episode is going to leave a mark for while.
They became too profit driven and cut product quality to maximize it.
It would be interesting to see the Japanese built pedal side by side with the domestic version.

explorerx4

Ice can be dangerous, but how do you experience on it if you stay indoors?

houdini1

You seem to put a lot of faith in experience and sound like you would make a really good business partner.

You put up the money and I will supply the experience. After a few months I will have the money and you will have the experience !!

wesleyg

Return Greetings to you. I know full well that you would not engage in any business with an unethical snake such as this. I'm all for making money, but any dealer that would advertise this, I sure do not want to have to deal with.

jimbres

Could Toyota's current problem actually be enough to put the company out of business?

As others have pointed out, Toyota's enormous cash reserves will get it through almost any conceivable combination of problems. Still, the company has behaved stupidly, & I'd like to see it spend some of its money to reverse the ill-will that many car buyers feel toward it -- and not without justification.

I like GG's suggestion that Toyota lengthen warranty coverage both for cars on the road & those not yet sold. In this way, the company will be seen as putting its money where its mouth is. (Apologies if someone other than GG thought of this.)

My family's history with Toyota goes back to the mid-70s. My wife's current car is a Lexus. She likes it & we've had no problems with it, but that doesn't mean that we'll automatically buy another Lexus when it's time to replace this one. Toyota will have to act like an exemplary corporate citizen if it wants to sell us another car.

joel0622

They have a long road to travel. This is just the first wave of bad press. As others have said they are not helping themselves in the early stages. The next round will come when it just starts to get off of peoples minds and then the class action law suits will start and they will have to go through it all again Then it will start to die down again and the suits will start to end and the $$ figures will hit the papers.
They will be living with this for at least the next 5 years, longer if the lawyers can prove this problem can be traced back to 1999.

graphicguy

jimbres....joel....I think Edmunds actually looked at both the CTS accelerator assemblies as well as Denso's.

Another web site (TTAC.com) actually took the two apart, stating that the one from CTS was more robust, using heavier metal parts vs Denso's cheaper plastic parts.

Who knows how any of that affects sudden acceleration issues, but they insinuated that the U.S. made CTS assembly was the better built of the two, using more robust parts.

Moreover, for reasons unknown, Toyota sent a redesign to CTS for manufacturing several years ago, while continuing to use the Denso assembly, presumably in their Japanese based plants.

They also insinuated that it may not be an assembly problem at all. And, that it could be a matter of accelerator assembly AND electronics issues.

Anyway, for those interested, here's their article....

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- - l-assemblies-denso-unit-looks-cheaper-rumored-to-be-recalled-too/

More info......

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story

isellhondas

I can see the trial lawyers rubbing their hands together!

graphicguy

isell....sadly, you're right. This is going to get worse before it gets better.....for good or for ill.

audia8q

From what I have read the factory level is a redesign and the dealer level is a fix...two totally diff. changes...so Im not sure it was a matter of one getting it before the other.

driver100

While driving along a 4 lane highway, about 50 mph, and what does some guy do?
Stops for a blinking amber light.
Almost caused an 8 car pile up.
I was about car #6 in line....came to a pretty hard stop.
Thank goodness the gas pedal didn't get stuck, in the RAV4.

mikefm58

That was because of the sudden acceleration in his Toyota Camry and he did what he was told to do, press firmly with both feet on the brake, put it in neutral, and brake to a stop....:shades:.....

roadburner

While driving along a 4 lane highway, about 50 mph, and what does some guy do?
Stops for a blinking amber light.

Imbeciles in Kentucky do that all the time. One day I was taking my kid to school and a traffic signal was blinking amber in our direction and red to the cross street. I sat in a line of 20+ brain dead morons who each stopped for the flashing amber light... :mad:

imidazol97

>"I don't think he's that fast Dad, you can take him."
"Better be careful, that Charger is an SRT8."
"That guy's an idiot, you are gonna smoke him!"

When will this young man have a driver's license?
What kind of car will he be driving? Fast? Lots of power?

imidazol97

>the trial lawyers rubbing their hands together

ThrottleGate!!!!
Information about your class action suit.


Your Lawyer . com

I've been waiting for Stan Chesley to announce he's getting involved in this one.

jipster

So far, so good. but then he follows up with "you certainly don't want to put your family in danger driving that Toyota so we'll protect you.

I guess he failed to mention the 660.000 Honda Fits just recalled due to a fire hazzard? :sick:

graphicguy

imid....Chesley would be all over this. He may be gathering depositions as we type. :sick:

For those who wonder who this guy is, he's a high profile tort lawyer based out of Cincinnati....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_M._Chesley

houdini1

John Edwards make his millions off of Big Tobacco. He is probably watching Mrs. Edwards with one eye and the Toyota situation with the other !!

verdugo

I still think it would behoove Toyota ..

Kind of a grammar post, but I just wanted to say that I love the word 'behoove.' There aren't enough opportunities to use it on a daily basis without sounding petulant.

verdugo

Illegal -no. Unethical-depends on which side of the fence you are sitting

I disagree. It's unethical period. If somebody doesn't think it is, *they* are sitting on the wrong side of the fence. :shades:

deltheking

So that Honda dealer is sitting on the wrong side of the fence !!

snakeweasel

I used to tell my students that the world fails to learn much from history. That is why it is repeated so often.

Who once said "History doesn't repeat itself, historians do."?

roadburner

When will this young man have a driver's license?
What kind of car will he be driving? Fast? Lots of power?

He gets his permit in November. The only cars he will be driving are the X3 and the 2002- both are hard pressed to go from 0-60 in less than 10 seconds.
He will be attending Street Survival as the BMW Performance Driving Two-Day Teen School.
Once he gets his license he's on probation; if he goes one year without a ticket or at-fault accident I'll help him buy a car. This all assumes that he has a job and that he remains on the Honor Roll.

houdini1

Sounds like a good plan, but speaking from experience, those plans sometimes don't exactly work out. Be patient with him and try not to be too tough and he will be fine !!

graphicguy

roadburner.....I remember all too well the qualifications I put on my son for a license. Very similar to yours. I'm sure you have a wonderful son. Seems as if when they get their license, some other piece of genetic code reveals itself.....one we aren't familiar with.

Best of luck to both you and your son. Safety is always paramount, especially when experience is lacking. They do have a tendency to think "Gone in 60 Seconds" is a blueprint on how to drive.

verdugo....I like "behoove", too!

roadburner

Sounds like a good plan, but speaking from experience, those plans sometimes don't exactly work out. Be patient with him and try not to be too tough and he will be fine !!

He's already tried my patience once; we were practicing in the 2002 and he jumped a curb with it. To be fair, he wasn't used to a car without power steering. I didn't even raise my voice. Thank heavens for 80 series tires and steel wheels!

roadburner

roadburner.....I remember all too well the qualifications I put on my son for a license. Very similar to yours. I'm sure you have a wonderful son. Seems as if when they get their license, some other piece of genetic code reveals itself.....one we aren't familiar with.

Best of luck to both you and your son. Safety is always paramount, especially when experience is lacking. They do have a tendency to think "Gone in 60 Seconds" is a blueprint on how to drive.

I've already told him that if he wants to drive fast or race I'll let him take a car to our local 1/8th mile strip or to the autocross. When he turns 18 I'll pay his way to a couple of BMW Club driving schools.

driver100

Good luck RR and GG.
Speaking as a former teacher, I think a reward for responsible behavour is a great incentive. Also, teaches a good lesson on how our capitalist system works.

driver100

Today Lenz the Pres of Toyota USA was on Good Morning America. This is the big thing these days for damage control, go out and admit you have done wrong and are trying your hardest to fix it.

One thing they said was if the gas pedal doesn't go down or up without hesitating, then take your car in immediately.

Well, I tested it and I have to say, I don't feel the gas pedal in the RAV sticking. But, I also notice, the gas pedal feel is kind of numb, similar to the steering. It is almost difficult to keep at a constant speed because of this....another negative in my book for the RAV4. I know my own car has a definite weight to the gas pedal, similar to the steering. I really liked the steering and general feel of my 2000 Jeep Cherokee over the RAV4.

graphicguy

driver...thanks. I think my son is past the "inexperienced" part (I hope...fingers crossed).

At first, I thought I was doing him a favor by teaching him how to drive a manual transmission. HE took that to mean that it was appropriate to redline in every gear. Then, I took him out several times to practice winter driving techniques in an empty parking lot with 4 inches of snow on the ground. I even had him do some panic stops in the snow to show how braking distances become much longer and how quickly he could lose control, how to recover. I think those lessons, more than learning how to drive a manual transmission were the most beneficial.

Still, within 6 months of him getting his license, he rear ended someone, on a sunny day, bone dry pavement. I should have spent more time with him on constantly paying attention when behind the wheel.

I immediately pulled his license for a year to drive that point home (and to avoid about $7K/year for his insurance). The courts wouldn't do it. So, I did (after signing a waiver stating that if he drove, he would absolutely not be covered by my insurance).

He's now been ticket/accident free for 4 years. Those first two years after he got his license were a bit rough, on him and me.

fezo

If your Toyota feels numb all aroudn your in good shape. It's behaving as designed. Unfortunately.

imidazol97

>This all assumes that he has a job and that he remains on the Honor Roll.

I'll add, remove the cell phone during driving. Pull over to call person back and don't use it while driving. Another is no more than one other kid in the car; Ohio has that as a law until 17 or 18. I'd have to check. Most accidents of youth come with distractions by others in the car.