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http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860
And 2005 with Regal/Century passing Avalon and no sign of Camry. They do not publish models below 3rd. You have to buy the data.
I understand Pontiac needs some money but this G5 could be a big mistake, further diluting both Pontiac _and_ Chevrolet's brand images. But then, what hope has Pontiac got anyway? I've always liked them but look at their current range:
G5 - godawful exercise in badge engineering. And by badge engineering, I mean badge-prying-off-and-pasting.
Vibe - Cute little crossover which will most likely die when the Matrix is replaced.
Solstice - The most recent bright spark, which is fading ever so slightly due to the addition of the Euro-slick Saturn Sky on the same platform.
G6 - Definitely an attractive mid-size range, with a sedan, coupe and convertible. Unlike anything Pontiac's ever had, and completes fully with the Camry/Solara range. But will Pontiac let this name and car wither on the vine?
SV6 - Started out as a clever idea. The Montana was meant to be a minivan with some SUV styling tweaks to make it more appealing. However, the SV6 became less special when the current CSV's came out and Pontiac's became more "smooth"
Torrent - Attractive, but it's simply a rebadged Equinox. Same dingy little engine too. However, I personally would take one of these over a 'Nox.
GTO - On hiatus for now, with a possible replacement in the future. Wasn't GTO-enough to be a GTO, but a bloody good car and deserved some success.
Grand Prix - One of the highest fleet-sellers. "Style" but no substance. Offers nothing over any other mid-size (not as sporty as MZ6 or Altima; not as practical as Accord, Camry), and detracts with cheap materials, cramped back seat. Has the name been dragged too far? Perhaps, as a rumoured replacement will be called the G8.
Mix together, heat with promise and then leave lukewarm. That's Pontiac's line-up. Such a shame as the G6 is a good range, the Solstice is hot, and the GTO is a damn good car (although I'd rather have mine as a Monaro... but then I'm from Australia).
...and, as stupid as it sounds, I must admit I have a soft spot for the Grand Prix GXP. V8, front-wheel-drive, tapshift, sounds so different and creaky that I'd probably love it. :P
But once again, we don't really know what all this means. They have the fewest complaints over 3 years, but we don't know how major the complaints are. And it seems to be one quality test out of 3 and if you combine 3 tests Lexus comes out way in front. Now, I do understand Buick has come a long way, and JD Powers does say the American cars have come a long way in the last few years in quality....but this is one test (by a very bonified company...please don't sue me JD) but I would actually like to see Consumers Reports too, and know a little more about what this test really covers.
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I think I have it now too, a big Buick looks like a Jaguar on steroids.
And, IMHO in that $21,000 bracket. most Accura's have pretty good styling
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Although, the interior is nicer than the Cavalier... which isn't saying much.
:lemon:
Most of those Buicks should have low miles on them, as they rarely get out of town.
Actually GM let all their brands become like one another. Nowadays there is no need for the 5 or 6 separate divisions. That worked in the past when people were loyal to GM and moved up the latter with GM as they got promotions and/or got better jobs and could afford the next step up. Times have changed and GM has refused to change with it. I have no sympathy for them anymore.
Look at Pontiac and Buick, they have wasted away to nothing.
But does it have a leather shifter knob?
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Actually, it would be really gutsy to come out with something new and groundbreaking, and call it something else. GM is like a deer caught in the headlights, afraid to move forward (and probably not enough money for development) but afraid to lose their ever decreasing number of loyal customers.
By the way;
* That G5 is just a 4 door Cobalt. In Canada we have a Pontiac Persuit which is just the Chev Cobalt for Pontiac dealers. Do you have Persuits in the U.S.A?
* I know which one I would buy between the $30,000 Buick with Tiger Paws or the $20,000 Hyundai all loaded up.....
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G3
G5
G6
G8
You sunk my battleship!
The Lincoln Town Car wins those awards as well - but that car has been around since 1979, not as long as some GM components, but still way too long. You will get it right after all that time.
I think it's just as simple as that.
-Loren
(waiting to hear from lexus owners )<
If by that, you mean the Impala is boring, but without the quality of a Lexus, well then..... I'm ok with it.
And that's the sad thing -- the Impala is a snoozer. GM is staring out at the abyss, and the best thing that it could muster is a car that isn't particularly offensive.
I'm beginning to think that there is something to these charges of media bias...but in the opposite direction. Take this review of the Impala from Edmunds, in which the reviewer has to tread carefully just to find something positive about the latest GM Blandmobile:
First Impressions: A perfect everyday car for the average American household.
Translation: All the charm of a minivan, but without the sliding rear doors.
Even the LS base model can inspire the confidence of driving an M1 Abrams.
Translation: It handles like a tank, better hope that you keep driving it in a straight line.
The Impala's look is also improved.
Translation: Not quite as uninspiring as it used to be. Not particularly attractive, though.
Big 16-inch tires are standard, and hold their own on the winding, hilly roads.
Translation: GM offers wheels that are the same size that you'd find on a Camry and every other car in its class. Boy, isn't that exciting...
It feels solid, its retuned suspension rides comfortably, and its brand-new 211-horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 provides a solid kick. Big 16-inch tires are standard, and hold their own on the winding, hilly roads.
Next up in the Impala pecking order is the LT, which Chevy anticipates as its high-volume seller. The LT comes standard with the same 3.5-liter V6 in the LS, and offers, as on the base Impala, optional ABS with traction control. The LT offers the option of upgrading to the more powerful 3.9-liter V6 that provides 242 hp.
Translation: Same old big heavy floaty sedan that you'd expect from the General, leave the driving gloves at home. Oh, yeah, and don't expect much horsepower for all of that displacement -- GM needs almost 4 liters to pull the same kind of power that others can extract out of 3 liters.
(Also, notice that we completely sidestepped describing the sort of technology to be found under the hood. Does the word "pushrods" ring any bells?)
Still, the 303-hp, 5.3-liter V8-equipped Impala SS is the one you want. It rips out 323 pound-feet of torque at 4,400 rpm, and is the quickest Impala ever built. That's right, 409 fans. Sorry, big-block buffs. Chevy says the new Impala SS can hit 0-60 in 5.7 seconds which dusts every single one of the car's storied ancestors. If only it was rear-wheel drive.
Translation: The best car in the lineup guzzles gas, can't handle and has torque steer. But at least it's faster than a 40-year old Impala.
GM has also retuned the Hydra-Matic four-speed automatic used in all of the Impala models.
Translation: Still out of date compared to the competition. Rather than build a better tranny, why not just tweak the last one?
Steering was a complaint on the 2005 Impala, and while the 2006 model features the same rack and pinion type as last year's version, Chevy has quickened its response and improved its feel.
Translation: GM took something that wasn't all that great, and just improved it slightly. This new GM is sure sounding a lot like the old GM...
Last year GM sold 290,256 Impalas, which made it the third best-selling passenger car in America behind the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
Translation: We know full well that half of 2005 Impala sales were to fleets, but why let that get in the way of a good story?
Overall, is there any particular reason why your average American should run out and buy an Impala when he can get a perfectly modern Camry that can at least do the blandness routine with a bit of style and modern accoutrements, and that will hold its value? The Impala may be among those few GM products that truly have crossed most of the reliabilty gap, but it has no exceptional qualities, several mediocre features and poor resale value. I'd consider a used one if I could live with the car's inherent dullness, but there's no good reason to throw good money on buying a new one.
If you want to check out some real disasters go to the forum on Impalas before 2005;
pluto5, "Chevrolet Impala 2005 and earlier" #13111, 4 Jan 2006 4:26 pm
95% of the emails are describing major problems
Check out this poor guy;
I am going to buy a used Impala at price 10K-12K, and I need your suggestion. From J.D.power ratings, it looks like the 2003 ones are the best, and the 2004 ones got pathetic ratings. Aren't they the same and built at the same place? Could any Impala owners show me some light on these ratings? I am really confused. I have driven a 3.4L Impala rented from Enterprise and I felt it was powerful enough. Which engine 3.4 or 3.8 is more reliable?
And then, one of my favorites;
I have a 2002 LS with the same problem 55,000 miles. The dealer said it would cost aprox. $950.00 to replace steering system....said they have had more steering problems with Impalas than other GM models..they said they've tried to repair but problem comes back, only way to correct is to replace...they said my problem will only get worse until I have to get it fixed.
I haven't found anyone planning to buy another one!
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For example, compare the comments from Edmunds about the Impala engine and transmission to those details listed about the Camry. The Impala motor is such an outdated underperformer that the best that the writer can hope to do is to gloss over its deficiencies as best he can, sidestepping the fact that the Impala's new engines aren't so new and lack any exceptional features or characteristics. In contrast, the Camry has noteworthy advances that improve performance, emissions and economy, and merit some detailed discussion.
So yes, the media is biased in this case, because the Impala review is far too kind and polite. If Toyota had released a sedan that had gained weight with no appreciable benefit, was burdened with inefficient pushrod (oops, "cam in block") motors, mediocre handling and soapbar styling, it would be mocked and derided for producing an also-ran before it even got out of the gate. Yet GM gets a pass and a pat on the back for producing a car that no transplant maker could get away with selling. Has "Made In Detroit" become the automotive equivalent of a handicapped placard?
I'll give a conspiracy theory bent to it, like some others claim magazines have. We all know GM has spent a pretty penny advertising at Edmunds, maybe the writers don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. Let's see what CAR or Jeremy Clarkson would say about NA market GM products. It wouldn't be pretty.
General Motors Corp. has pulled its advertising from Tribune Co.'s Los Angeles Times, according to a media report Thursday...
...One person familiar with the situation told the Journal that the amount is perceived by people in the ad industry as "highly significant" and that the action against one of the nation's largest metropolitan newspaper is seen as punitive...
...The decision comes one day after Times published auto reporter Dan Neil's weekly column, in which he wrote that GM's Pontiac G6 was a "sales flop" and that former North American Chairman Robert Lutz and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner should be ousted.
Lutz, along with former Group Vice President Gary Cowger, on Monday were transferred to GM's global development and manufacturing division.
Apparently, the new corporate strategy seems to do everything possible to silence criticism, rather than heed it as a sign that business as usual won't be enough to save the company. No need to improve the product if you can just keep people from complaining. (I guess GM really has been learning something by doing business with the Chinese government...)
This kind of thing is a big reason why I prefer foreign automotive journalism. I know CAR has faced flack for their bluntness (I believe VW pulled ads for some time), but they basically say "go to hell" when a carmaker gets upset at a scathing review. I know some automakers have also not cooperated with granting the magazine test drives etc...but they keep on telling it like it is. I'd say they are globally the most renown mass market car magazine, so I bet they have the sales volume to do as they please. I would love to see some of their staffers spend a month in NA and sample what we get to choose from.
Well, it certainly was the car I new GM could and WOULD build.... :P
If you're wondering, I'm Asian too. He's my nerdy friend. :shades:
-----
I learned back in the late '70s and early '80s that yes, 'Made in Detroit' does indeed mean (mentally) 'handicapped'.
Well, 4 months into 2006, we have the following sales totals:
Chrysler 300: 52,136 (up 6.2% from comparable period in 2005)
Buick LaCrosse: 22,120 (down 20.7%)
The 300, while not my cup of tea, is still a head-turner; the LaCrosse is ...(yawn).
If you're wondering, I'm Asian too. He's my nerdy friend.
Proves that bad taste is not race specific.
Look what else is buried in this gem:
Next up in the Impala pecking order is the LT, which Chevy anticipates as its high-volume seller. The LT comes standard with the same 3.5-liter V6 in the LS, and offers, as on the base Impala, optional ABS with traction control. The LT offers the option of upgrading to the more powerful 3.9-liter V6 that provides 242 hp.
ABS is still optional, even in the "next-in-pecking-order" model? Meanwhile, over at Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai, ABS is standard in the Camry, Accord, and Sonata.
Way to go, GM!
'06 Impala: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=640
Well, an "acceptable" rating may have been good enough -- in 1995, when most cars rated pretty badly. But now, almost everything rates a "good," and the Impala actually backtracked compared to the earlier generation model.
Side impact ratings not yet out...
I would buy one of these, if they live up to expectations(and the aforementioned 3 door/hatch).
Guess we will have to wait awhile longer for official word.
angel008a, "Chrysler 300: Problems & Solutions" #1028, 12 May 2006 12:16 pm
Are these the the 300s you mean? You might read through a large part of the discussion about problems. Wonder how their JDPowers ratings are?
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Since any make and model with over about 10 sales per year has a "problems and solutions" board here on Edmunds, I'm sure anyone can find a horror story about any particular model. That's why they're called "problems and solutions."
My point is that Chrysler can produce a hit that's still turning heads, while the LaCrosse has joined the list of forgettables.
BTW, Consumer Reports, which I trust more than old JD (but no need to rehash that argument), lists the '05 300 V6 as average overall for reliability, while the '05 Hemi V8 is much worse than average. The LaCrosse is better than average.
But to paraphrase, "not on reliability alone do cars sell." Otherwise, Mercedes sales should be in the toilet! :P
Hypocritical? No. Just trying to honestly assess GM's position.
If you have a football game where one team is behind by 6 points with 10 seconds to go, it isn't 'hypocritical' to say THAT team needs a Hail Mary pass but the other team doesn't.
In the small and mid-size sedan/coupe market, GM is behind. They've been losing market share in this very important market for YEARS (if not decades). IF they intend to start recapturing market share, they can't simply try off-tackle dive plays time after time after time.
Of course the LaCrosse is...(yawn). After all it's a Buick!
How far the mighty have fallen!
When we first went to look at the LaCrosse, she was so smitten with the styling she didn't even want to look at anything else. She said that the LaCrosse had more a pleasing "feminine" form - that it was a more approriate car for a woman as the 300 was too "macho." One test drive and she was hooked.
I can't think of anything creative coming from GM, mostly warmed over leftovers.
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Was curious about data on these, so looked at GM web site on annual sales comparing Year 2001 to 2005.
Buick/Pontiac combined went from 939K to 720K, a decline of 23 percent.
(Chevrolet went from 2,690K to 2,670K, a decline of less than one percent.)
While 23 percent is significant, 720K volume is still a lot of vehicles.
Buick went from 406K in 2001 to 282K in 2005. Noticed that Olds had 234K in 2001. Can't recall when GM announced Olds would be cancelled, but think it was after 2001.
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Clearly I failed to communicate adequately.
The point is that the car has a real problem with realiability. Whether or not people like to buy it, when I read about trans problems and other major problems that don't get fixed, I wonder how it keeps selling. But then I look at the demographics of those around my area who are buying it and it becomes clearer that it's a mixed market.
Personally I liked the previous model 300M much better and I can see the remnants of that in the box with the new greenhouse for the current car; but they must have made major changes.
As for taking new chances, the CrossFire and other models from Chrysler, errrr Mercedes-Chrysler, are interesting. The Charger is good if its mechanicals are better than 300??? Same car?
The Magnum is bad design. If GM had done that... it would be an Aztek. A friend had one as a loaner for his Pacifica; he said he wouldn't accept one again and he took it back and exchanged it the next day!
The 300 style will be tired in a year; to me it already is. But MC will probably have a freshenup design out next year? Or will it hang around for 5 years before a restyle.
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Odds would be pretty high that the houses that these ladies came from would be significantly different. On the finer points of styling, Mercedes would be the original with panache while the Buick was the ersatz Jaguar/Taurus/etc.
I recall the Granada ads about the similarity to the physical shape of Mercedes years ago when Mercedes still had a shape and reputation.
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And the fact that the sales of the GM product are falling while those of rival makers are increasing tells you that the market is not particularly satisfied by the GM offering.
GM sales have been declining for years, while the overall market for vehicles has been increasing, which tells you that GM is doing something seriously wrong. Satisfying a few diehards is obviously not going to generate profits, these products need to have a bit broader appeal than that.
I wouldn't buy a 300 either, both because of Chrysler's past shaky reliability problems AND because it's hard to see out of the car when you're inside. (I like larger side glass, not gun slits.)
Sorry, but the LaCrosse is a yawner and the sales totals support that. The 300 has presence and it still is a looker, IMO.
Chrysler's not standing pat, either, with vehicles like the Dodge Caliber and Jeep Compass and Patriot either on the market or soon to arrive.
Personally, I have Toyotas and a Nissan in my fleet, and I'm not going back to anything domestic. And why should I when I'm no longer on a first-name basis with the local service shop?
GM should build the Nomad.
-Loren
Understood. I'm just surprised at the sales level in my area for the 300. I keep thinking back to the tailfin era of Chrysler in 1955-1959 approx. and how exaggerated the design was from Chrysler; then they went to rounded under rears!
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Agreed.
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