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David
Unfortunately David, CCompson's post was one of those we see way to often in Edmunds where people tell a piece of the facts in order to promote their agenda.
If you go here: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/gmc/yukon/100686869/incentives.html
You will see the only incentive available on the Yukon is $1500.00 cash if you trade in an acceptable car model year 1999 or later. No coupon is needed from what I can see. But expect to give up on the trade in what you get with the coupon.
Just another day of goofiness here at the Edmunds town hall. Sorry about that.
Cadillac already makes such a car. It is called the SRX V6.
It doesn't matter anyway though. As much as I like the Corvette and Cadillac line of vehicles, this is not enough alone to save GM. And if gas prices ever hit $6-8 a gallon (which is very possible in the next few years if you consider a war with Iran, and inflation), then we are all going to be considering a Yaris, Fit, and Aveo
With the rich increasingly getting richer, they will be able to afford the higher price of gas.
;-)
I guess it depends how you define "rich"
-----------
I wonder how many X5 shoppers cross shop the SRX. I compared it when I bought my SUV. My wife liked the Volvo more. She felt "pretentious" driving a Caddy. I thought the SRX was a better daily driver than the XC90, but she was the one driving it, soooo....
How has the SRX done in the market?
Found it -- an old test -- the SRX beat out the Cayenne and the Infiniti FX in Car and Driver's big box SUV test.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/7259/big-box-sports-cars-page5.html
Looking at the SRX, I still don't see Bluetooth capabilities, a telescoping steering wheel, ventilated seats or an Ipod jack!
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/gallery.jsp?model=srx&id=1&primary=2
Anyone with more money than me;)
So is GM blind, dumb, deaf, or stupid? Obviously they are one of them... GM NEEDS TO PERSUE 1 and 1 luxury car brand only...and that needs to be Saab right now. Look at what Ford is doing with Volvo (saabs evil swedish twin). Volvo has not made a successful turn over sice Americans have pocessed it (neither has saab). But at least they are selling higher than saab. Ford is making use of all of its luxury brands, from Land rover, volvo, to Jaguar and Aston Martin. I think that if GM puts more money into its luxury cars, then they will at least accompish reastablishing some sort of respect...or whats left of it. And the new Saab 9-3 and 9-5 shows that GM is trying to pull its resources and help Saab have its first successful turnover in the 21st century by giving it the hybrids that are soon to hit the streets. All we need now is more E85 ethonol stations...
Also, why doesnt GM really just close the chapter on some of these brands. Look at the Japanese, Toyota has 3 brands, Nissan has 2, and Honda has 2. why in Hellsworthy will GM have so many brands? I cant even count 'em all!
My suggestion- Sell saturn to the Japanese or Chrystler (that will earn a good few billion), Merge Pontiac and GMC together, Kill or try your hardest to sell Buick, and restructure Chevy. I think that will do it. Not to say totally fire financial advisor... But that is not my decision. Hummer may need to be killed shortly...it is too risky for GM to gamble right now...Hummer can always come back later...
I wish the Solstice/Sky would have been slightly larger and in a coupe version.
-Loren
I seriously doubt any car would go put put put with Acura's awesome 300 HP RL powerplant. Maybe with GM's sorry excuses for a transmission, but with an Acura Tranny, your beloved STS would be FAST, fast fast, at least in a straight line. If you replacd GM's lousy suspensions with Acura's fantastic ones, you'd be fast around corners too.
How about you compare the Acura NSX to the corvette or STS-V, not Acura's family sedan.
The perfect design was figured out almost 50 years ago by Mercedes, actually. Unibody car to keep weight down to under 3000lbs(give or take), RWD, and a small inline-6 engine.
That they got 200HP(net, at the wheels!) out of a 3.0L engine 40 years ago tells you something about how little the technology has progressed. That's more than the 3800 in non-supercharged form, and a LOT smaller and lighter engine as well.
My 230S - It has a 2.3L inline 6 with 145HP. It's about as fast as a 4-Cylinder Accord, which is plenty fast if you are using it for getting around and not racing it. The car is the size of the previous generation Camry - not small. It's also all metal. 3000lbs. No fuel injection, no VVT, we're talking about dual carbs and one camshaft.
How modern cars like the Accord 4 cylinder weigh more, have less power(torque, HP is virtually the same), and a larger, more complex engine - it's clear that they just aren't trying as hard as they could. GM is so woefully behind the times that they don't even look as good as my 40 year old Mercedes half of the time.
I guess it's stupid, stubborn American pride at work - have to reinvent the wheel every time, because heaven help us if the thing was designed by a foriegner.
GM - get a clue - it's not changed. The magic formula is still a small I-6 engine and RWD. It's also what people want.
A rebate that covers anyone trading in any kind of car that is 0-7 years old covers a significant span of the buying public. Yep, the rebates are back, no doubt about it, no matter how much you may claim to the contrary.
Except for more distant operations such as Daewoo, Saab and Holden, GM really has nothing to sell or spin out. The domestic brands are too closely tied together to liquidate independently, and the brands are fairly worthless.
But you're right, GM has too many brands as it is, and supporting them creates more cost than benefit. At this pace, I bet that you will see consolidation, including the elimination of nameplates, but I doubt that it will happen quickly or decisively enough to do much good. I would expect that things there will get worse before they get better.
That is true for now until the end of this year when the new bigger and more powerful Tundra comes out. It will be a tough challenge to the good ol boys (F150, Silverado and RAM)
jt
I have asked you in the past that if you are incapable of honest civilized debate to refrain from responding to my posts.
While posting a quote where I expressly describe an incentive program, you find it necessary to say I 'may claim to the contrary.' What a load of rot.
Then read the Car and Driver Comparo.
The professional testers said that while technically the MX5 may have been able to handle the curves faster, they found themselves unwilling to push the car to its maximum, because its nervous nature made them nervous.
The Solstice, on the other hand, did not jump about quite as much, allowing the driver to take the car to its max.
Maybe you are looking more towards the Mustang. That is more relaxed and has more room.
I like the Mustang coupe a lot. The convertible is nice with a surprisingly solid ride for its price. Ford pulled off the trick by making it rather heavy (although keeping it inexpensive may not be the only factor here. The Volvo C70 is real heavy as well).
I think a Sky would work perfect for me.
I wish the Solstice/Sky would have been slightly larger
GM already makes a slightly larger Solstice/Sky. They call it a Corvette.
in a coupe version.
I believe there will be a coupe version.
If GM ramps up production to meet the current demand, they may need a coupe later to use the capacity when convertible demand ultimately comes back down to Earth.
GM's full size pick up will be all new at the end of the year as well.
The F150 has been doing well since its relaunch.
Daimler does seem to be losing interest in pick ups.
From an investment point - and arguably an environmental point given a recent discussion on Edmunds - the wise investor would be better served buying an Ion1 than a Prius.
The car is cheaper, relatively frugal with fuel, and uses less energy to build and recycle.
That wouldn't surprise me, and that isn't particularly good for Daimler, either. But at least the 300 has been largely kept out of fleets, did manage to sell in large numbers, and helped to improve Chrysler's image and branding.
I don't blame GM for selling the SUV's that it has, but without other more efficient products, these things could end up doing more harm than good. If GM continues to be viewed just as a seller of trucks, its future as a maker of passenger cars is going to becom more difficult still.
Absolutely no rationalization.
The other poster provided a very incomplete definition of the incentive program. Something particularly gauling, when it is so easy to find out what the program is right here on Edmunds.
You did understate the extent of the rebate, so don't be surprised when others point it out.
Once again, you attack by deliberately misstating my clear words. I described the program exactly as it is: $1500.00 cash to people who trade in a 1999 or better. I added a truism that many dealers will recoup the $1500.00 low balling the trade in.
so don't be surprised when others point it out.
I am not at all surprised by the earlier post. I would be more surprised if you did not misstate the obvious in my posts.
-Loren
Speaking of investments, I have been toying with the idea of a contrarian play by buying some GM stock, but can they ever turn it around? Many companies have hit ruts in the road and have turned things back around. I have bought Japanese products for the last 25 years, but I'm starting to like what GM is doing with their product lines. Is it the Bob Lutz effect? But then, I had the same thoughts about gold when it was $170/oz. and didn't do anything there either. Same for Chrysler back in the 80's. I did pick up lots of IBM in the high 30's and that turned out great. Can GM do the same???????
How about they offer a buyback "lemon law" program in house even more agressive than California's progressive lemon laws?
That would be a step forward, actually outdo and improve upon California's lemon law, with even less guidelines and restrictions from having their customers have their lemons bought back.
that would be something unique.
I accidently bought a Saturn once.. Worse resale of any vehicle I have ever owned. If you do buy the Ion, buy a used low mileage one...
A smart buyer wouldn't pay a dime for one, as every 1,000 miles you drive costs you about $250 in repairs. I told a salesman once I knew he'd have to pay me money to buy that used Dodge Neon, I knew better, only after suffering through one.
Also, you get about 20% less mileage than EPA with the Neon. You also get smoked by Civic VTECS because your performance starts to die out around 50K miles.
So worst resale value EVER has to go to the Neon. Maybe the dealers low ball offer of $800 for one with 65K and in relatively "excellent" condition wasn't such a low ball offer afterall?
Now comes the Caliber. Wow.. a Neon by any other name is what??? A Neon by anyother name is a Caliber. LOL. Same car maker, different name, I guarantee you that you will get the same quality (or lack thereof) and poor resale value. Mark my words, it won't be any better.
It's like this Mexican taco stand near where I live. They've changed names 4 times in the last 4 years, but the food has never improved or really changed. It worked to trick me into going 3 times, but enough is enough. I would of never gone back if they didn't change their name (smart of them) And now, I will never go back, no matter if they change their name a 5th or 6th time.
I think Dodge is employing their strategy (the lame taco shop).
I'm trying to picture all those 100,000 mile Neons out there that have cost their owners $25,000 in repairs.....you wouldn't be exaggerating, would you?
Not to be mean, but if GM keeps this up, I will agree with the many that say GM needs to go down! They are just too slow! Saab? worthless? no way.
Absolutely not. Saab is a luxury brand. Not many luxury brands are actually for sale. So why wont saab be sold to someone that will look after it better...more like Porsche or Peugeot? I think Porsche has more experience with Rallying (saab used too), Turbo engines (every Saab sedan has one), and luxury (the 9-7x is a joke compared to Volvo's XC90, imagine sharing parts with a Cayenne...).
So, my point is, that GM should have only...5 brands at the most. Not 10 or so. The Euro comps should come together into one if they are so "close". And Chevy needs better vehicles (not to mention a new Camarro, it will attract alot of attention). Lastly, Saab needs to be treated with the Luxurious dignity that it deserves. Not like its a charity case! And too much blame is being toppled on out Swedish friend. Were people this hard on Cadillac when it was in the middle of its soul searching back in the 90's? Geez! But yeah, Buick needs to go bye bye now. And Saturn needs to be sold, and GMC and Pontiac needs to become 1. :shades:
Daewoo no longer exists. GM and Suzuki bought some factories and IP rights from Daewoo.
GM has used the facilities to greatly extend its reach in South Korea, China, India, and Eastern Europe.
GM even gets the Aveo for the US market from Daewoo. Suzuki brings a few Daewoo sedans over as well.
- Dodge Neon- My oldest daughter bought a used dark Green (many that color)1999 Neon- not many options, she bought it very cheap. And used it for almost 3 years, hardly an oil change, left the windows down at night (rained on a million times), used it for many trips to and from college 200 miles away- I think the total for repairs over 3 years was less than $300. And my son bought a nice used Infinity I20 when he was in college- and had one expensive repair after another!!! Go figure
Have no idea if it will be reliable or not.
-Loren
Even if the Aveo was not available here in the US, the Daewoo assets probably are a win for GM. The Chinese Daewoo kit sales alone are probably worth it.
-Loren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Daewoo
Of course, you couldn't see out of a Dodge Grand Caravan and look how lousy its sales were. [sarcasm]
How IS the Magnum doing?
I wonder how the Caliber would do in a comparo with a Volvo V50. Of course, the Caliber is about 2/3 the cost of the Volvo. Can the Caliber match the Volvo in safety?
er....weren't we talking about GM? sorry
Wonder who owns the gun and tank building assets of Daewoo?
-Loren
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-03-03-caliber_x.htm
http://cars.about.com/od/dodg1/fr/bk_07caliber.htm
It isn't a matter of what cars we personally like, but what can be produced profitably and that work within a coherent branding strategy. GM lacks the latter, which keeps it from achieving the former, and needs to remedy this quickly. Building perhaps 20 US models marketed effectively under just a couple of badges, and building them very well, should help...but I doubt that this is going to happen.
Daewoo Auto is no longer a company.
After GM bought the assets from the Daewoo bankruptcy estate it set up a new company, which I believe is actually called GM-Daewoo Auto Technology. It has nothing to do with the original Daewoo.
Now I agree when you said that Saab's dont need to be built outside of Europe, however, I do believe that the Chassis and the Engine, Trans. should be built in Sweden or Germany. Everything else could be built in Mexico or China. Gm did a stupid move when they made that Saabaru thing, and that Tahoe looking truck. I must admit, The front of those vehicles look quite good, but the designers must have gone on coffee break and never came back, so the back of the car must have had to have "other" influences. I think that GM is doing a very good job advertising for Saab lately too. That is one step that was taken correctly...
P.S.-imagine if GM would hand pick the designers and Engineers from Sweden? That would be one tiny little step forward in the right direction. Oh, and what was said before about a mainstream ownership, it doesnt matter, Volvo and Land Rover are just fine, but of course, there is always gonna be one in the fam. that will jack things up (Jaguar).