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General Motors discussions

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  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Anyone know where to obtain the $1500 coupon? Or any idea where to call? Thanks,.

    David


    Unfortunately David, CCompson's post was one of those we see way to often in Edmunds where people tell a piece of the facts in order to promote their agenda.

    If you go here: http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/gmc/yukon/100686869/incentives.html

    You will see the only incentive available on the Yukon is $1500.00 cash if you trade in an acceptable car model year 1999 or later. No coupon is needed from what I can see. But expect to give up on the trade in what you get with the coupon.

    Just another day of goofiness here at the Edmunds town hall. Sorry about that.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    If GM put out a sub 300HP V6 luxury SUV that got 18/28mpg, people would buy them...

    Cadillac already makes such a car. It is called the SRX V6.

    It doesn't matter anyway though. As much as I like the Corvette and Cadillac line of vehicles, this is not enough alone to save GM. And if gas prices ever hit $6-8 a gallon (which is very possible in the next few years if you consider a war with Iran, and inflation), then we are all going to be considering a Yaris, Fit, and Aveo

    With the rich increasingly getting richer, they will be able to afford the higher price of gas.
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    well, we may be rich, but we ain't stupid

    ;-)

    I guess it depends how you define "rich"

    -----------

    I wonder how many X5 shoppers cross shop the SRX. I compared it when I bought my SUV. My wife liked the Volvo more. She felt "pretentious" driving a Caddy. I thought the SRX was a better daily driver than the XC90, but she was the one driving it, soooo....

    How has the SRX done in the market?
  • allargonallargon Member Posts: 75
    It's weird. The SRX which is a crossover based on the same platform as the CTS and STS got raves from several rags. However, I see more Porsche Cayennes and Lexus RX 300/400's on the road than I see SRX's here in domestic friendly Austin, TX. However, that's just Austin. (This place does not lack for full size truck SUV's like Escalades, Infiniti QX's and Lexus FX's.)

    Found it -- an old test -- the SRX beat out the Cayenne and the Infiniti FX in Car and Driver's big box SUV test.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/7259/big-box-sports-cars-page5.html

    Looking at the SRX, I still don't see Bluetooth capabilities, a telescoping steering wheel, ventilated seats or an Ipod jack! :cry: Again, it's all about styling and features.

    http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/gallery.jsp?model=srx&id=1&primary=2
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I do not think those features would effect sales that much. More likely it looks too much like a station wagon unlike the others mentioned.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I guess it depends how you define "rich"

    Anyone with more money than me;)
  • r_johnsn246r_johnsn246 Member Posts: 7
    Rich keep getting richer huh? Well if gas prices will hit 6-8 MPG, then people will want hybrids (duh). I think that many (even high performance) GM cars should come with a hybrid model. IT is GM's only real hope when you think about it. I wouldnt mind a hybrid from GM. From what I've heard, Gm has officially constructed a fossil fuel free vehicle ready for sale soon. It has E85 ethonol (im sure we have all heard...). It is in their luxury car brand (no not cadillac, the half sister, u know the read head.) Saab.
    So is GM blind, dumb, deaf, or stupid? Obviously they are one of them... GM NEEDS TO PERSUE 1 and 1 luxury car brand only...and that needs to be Saab right now. Look at what Ford is doing with Volvo (saabs evil swedish twin). Volvo has not made a successful turn over sice Americans have pocessed it (neither has saab). But at least they are selling higher than saab. Ford is making use of all of its luxury brands, from Land rover, volvo, to Jaguar and Aston Martin. I think that if GM puts more money into its luxury cars, then they will at least accompish reastablishing some sort of respect...or whats left of it. And the new Saab 9-3 and 9-5 shows that GM is trying to pull its resources and help Saab have its first successful turnover in the 21st century by giving it the hybrids that are soon to hit the streets. All we need now is more E85 ethonol stations...

    Also, why doesnt GM really just close the chapter on some of these brands. Look at the Japanese, Toyota has 3 brands, Nissan has 2, and Honda has 2. why in Hellsworthy will GM have so many brands? I cant even count 'em all!
    My suggestion- Sell saturn to the Japanese or Chrystler (that will earn a good few billion), Merge Pontiac and GMC together, Kill or try your hardest to sell Buick, and restructure Chevy. I think that will do it. Not to say totally fire financial advisor... But that is not my decision. Hummer may need to be killed shortly...it is too risky for GM to gamble right now...Hummer can always come back later... :)
  • r_johnsn246r_johnsn246 Member Posts: 7
    Is GM really smoking crack? they need to be shot or slapped either one. Why is Saab's home plant in Trollhattan, Sweden building more Cadillacs than Saab's? I think that the luxury brands need to have their own plants, and the "significant others" aka "undesirables" need to be built in Korea, China, nd Mexico. Cheap labor will definately help GM save their thinning stock of cash.... :)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Not sure what you mean by a sure ride. The Miata will out handle the Solstice from what I have read. As far as the car being a touring type, I would doubt either fit the model of GT class. Maybe you are looking more towards the Mustang. That is more relaxed and has more room. I though the last model of Eclipse was a pretty good touring car with the V6. The Tiburon may be too, but it has a short wheel base, and rough roads send a lot of feedback into the car. Overall, with the V6, I see it a good sporty touring car.

    I wish the Solstice/Sky would have been slightly larger and in a coupe version.
    -Loren
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    What is wrong with GM's engines? You think GM should get its engines from Honda??? Honda doesn't even offer a V8 even from Acura. GM's trannys are among the best in the industry. A STS would go put, put, put, put, put if you put the engine of even an Acura RL into it. (Hehe, the Acura RL goes put, put, put, put compared to a STS-V or Corvette.)

    I seriously doubt any car would go put put put with Acura's awesome 300 HP RL powerplant. Maybe with GM's sorry excuses for a transmission, but with an Acura Tranny, your beloved STS would be FAST, fast fast, at least in a straight line. If you replacd GM's lousy suspensions with Acura's fantastic ones, you'd be fast around corners too.

    How about you compare the Acura NSX to the corvette or STS-V, not Acura's family sedan.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The thing that GM doesn't do that would help it the most, besides making ABS abd and side airbags standard on all cars, is to come out with a great engine, namely, an inline-6.

    The perfect design was figured out almost 50 years ago by Mercedes, actually. Unibody car to keep weight down to under 3000lbs(give or take), RWD, and a small inline-6 engine.

    That they got 200HP(net, at the wheels!) out of a 3.0L engine 40 years ago tells you something about how little the technology has progressed. That's more than the 3800 in non-supercharged form, and a LOT smaller and lighter engine as well.

    My 230S - It has a 2.3L inline 6 with 145HP. It's about as fast as a 4-Cylinder Accord, which is plenty fast if you are using it for getting around and not racing it. The car is the size of the previous generation Camry - not small. It's also all metal. 3000lbs. No fuel injection, no VVT, we're talking about dual carbs and one camshaft.

    How modern cars like the Accord 4 cylinder weigh more, have less power(torque, HP is virtually the same), and a larger, more complex engine - it's clear that they just aren't trying as hard as they could. GM is so woefully behind the times that they don't even look as good as my 40 year old Mercedes half of the time.

    I guess it's stupid, stubborn American pride at work - have to reinvent the wheel every time, because heaven help us if the thing was designed by a foriegner.

    GM - get a clue - it's not changed. The magic formula is still a small I-6 engine and RWD. It's also what people want.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You will see the only incentive available on the Yukon is $1500.00 cash if you trade in an acceptable car model year 1999 or later.

    A rebate that covers anyone trading in any kind of car that is 0-7 years old covers a significant span of the buying public. Yep, the rebates are back, no doubt about it, no matter how much you may claim to the contrary.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    My suggestion- Sell saturn to the Japanese or Chrystler (that will earn a good few billion), Merge Pontiac and GMC together, Kill or try your hardest to sell Buick, and restructure Chevy

    Except for more distant operations such as Daewoo, Saab and Holden, GM really has nothing to sell or spin out. The domestic brands are too closely tied together to liquidate independently, and the brands are fairly worthless.

    But you're right, GM has too many brands as it is, and supporting them creates more cost than benefit. At this pace, I bet that you will see consolidation, including the elimination of nameplates, but I doubt that it will happen quickly or decisively enough to do much good. I would expect that things there will get worse before they get better.
  • jntjnt Member Posts: 316
    logic1,

    That is true for now until the end of this year when the new bigger and more powerful Tundra comes out. It will be a tough challenge to the good ol boys (F150, Silverado and RAM)

    jt
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Yep, the rebates are back, no doubt about it, no matter how much you may claim to the contrary.

    I have asked you in the past that if you are incapable of honest civilized debate to refrain from responding to my posts.

    While posting a quote where I expressly describe an incentive program, you find it necessary to say I 'may claim to the contrary.' What a load of rot.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Not sure what you mean by a sure ride. The Miata will out handle the Solstice from what I have read.

    Then read the Car and Driver Comparo.

    The professional testers said that while technically the MX5 may have been able to handle the curves faster, they found themselves unwilling to push the car to its maximum, because its nervous nature made them nervous.

    The Solstice, on the other hand, did not jump about quite as much, allowing the driver to take the car to its max.

    Maybe you are looking more towards the Mustang. That is more relaxed and has more room.

    I like the Mustang coupe a lot. The convertible is nice with a surprisingly solid ride for its price. Ford pulled off the trick by making it rather heavy (although keeping it inexpensive may not be the only factor here. The Volvo C70 is real heavy as well).

    I think a Sky would work perfect for me.

    I wish the Solstice/Sky would have been slightly larger

    GM already makes a slightly larger Solstice/Sky. They call it a Corvette.

    in a coupe version.

    I believe there will be a coupe version.

    If GM ramps up production to meet the current demand, they may need a coupe later to use the capacity when convertible demand ultimately comes back down to Earth.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    That is true for now until the end of this year when the new bigger and more powerful Tundra comes out. It will be a tough challenge to the good ol boys (F150, Silverado and RAM)

    GM's full size pick up will be all new at the end of the year as well.

    The F150 has been doing well since its relaunch.

    Daimler does seem to be losing interest in pick ups.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The Acura's RL powerplant has been downrated to 290 horsepower. This is still good. BUT :cry: the torque is only 256 lb-ft, hardly better than the CTS's 3.6 liter V6, and this is at 5000 RPM's where it will do little good except for a high horsepower rating. GM's 3.6 has the peak torque at about 3000 RPM's where it is useable.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    If I recall correctly, even the Chrysler 300 has been available with a $1,000 cash incentive from day one for buyers who use Chrysler's financing arm.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    At least where I live, lots of wealthy people are driving the smaller Toyotas and Hondas, including the very popular Prius- for political reasons, maybe because they are tree huggers, but (for me anyway), I would rather invest in appreciating or stable assets, not blowing my money out the tailpipe by driving poor mileage vehicles. And the European cars like the Mercedes/BMWs/Volvos/Saabs have been technically advanced for years, and I read that the Asian companies look to them for inspiration (maybe copying) in their autos- with great results. But they don't copy (happily) the high maintenance costs and poor reliability of those European makes.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    including the very popular Prius- for political reasons, maybe because they are tree huggers, but (for me anyway), I would rather invest in appreciating or stable assets, not blowing my money out the tailpipe

    From an investment point - and arguably an environmental point given a recent discussion on Edmunds - the wise investor would be better served buying an Ion1 than a Prius.

    The car is cheaper, relatively frugal with fuel, and uses less energy to build and recycle.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Why the constant rationalizations? You denounced another poster for allegedly overstating the extent of the rebate package, when the rebate is actually structured to be used by a lot of buyers. You did understate the extent of the rebate, so don't be surprised when others point it out.
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    If I recall correctly, even the Chrysler 300 has been available with a $1,000 cash incentive from day one for buyers who use Chrysler's financing arm.

    That wouldn't surprise me, and that isn't particularly good for Daimler, either. But at least the 300 has been largely kept out of fleets, did manage to sell in large numbers, and helped to improve Chrysler's image and branding.

    I don't blame GM for selling the SUV's that it has, but without other more efficient products, these things could end up doing more harm than good. If GM continues to be viewed just as a seller of trucks, its future as a maker of passenger cars is going to becom more difficult still.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Why the constant rationalizations? You denounced another poster for allegedly overstating the extent of the rebate package, when the rebate is actually structured to be used by a lot of buyers.

    Absolutely no rationalization.

    The other poster provided a very incomplete definition of the incentive program. Something particularly gauling, when it is so easy to find out what the program is right here on Edmunds.

    You did understate the extent of the rebate, so don't be surprised when others point it out.

    Once again, you attack by deliberately misstating my clear words. I described the program exactly as it is: $1500.00 cash to people who trade in a 1999 or better. I added a truism that many dealers will recoup the $1500.00 low balling the trade in.

    so don't be surprised when others point it out.

    I am not at all surprised by the earlier post. I would be more surprised if you did not misstate the obvious in my posts.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    Just look at the window stickers on GM's cars. What kind of mileage will you actually get. Not good.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I have done so. MPG looks average to well above average. Which is good. What will you actually get, you ask? Well the GM cars I owned, as poor as they were, did get at or above the listed gas mileage. GM V6 engines seem to do well in that respect. The V8 Corvette will match some V6 engines for gas mileage. In the four cylinder class, Toy and Honda lead the way.
    -Loren
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
  • 5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "I would rather invest in appreciating or stable assets"

    Speaking of investments, I have been toying with the idea of a contrarian play by buying some GM stock, but can they ever turn it around? Many companies have hit ruts in the road and have turned things back around. I have bought Japanese products for the last 25 years, but I'm starting to like what GM is doing with their product lines. Is it the Bob Lutz effect? But then, I had the same thoughts about gold when it was $170/oz. and didn't do anything there either. Same for Chrysler back in the 80's. I did pick up lots of IBM in the high 30's and that turned out great. Can GM do the same???????
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Increase warranty periods to give customers Piece of mind when buying.
    How about they offer a buyback "lemon law" program in house even more agressive than California's progressive lemon laws?
    That would be a step forward, actually outdo and improve upon California's lemon law, with even less guidelines and restrictions from having their customers have their lemons bought back.

    that would be something unique.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Or if you want resale, good gas mileage, and quality fit and finish either a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla...

    I accidently bought a Saturn once.. Worse resale of any vehicle I have ever owned. If you do buy the Ion, buy a used low mileage one...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,934
    Dodge Neons were known for their famously poor reliability and resale value.

    A smart buyer wouldn't pay a dime for one, as every 1,000 miles you drive costs you about $250 in repairs. I told a salesman once I knew he'd have to pay me money to buy that used Dodge Neon, I knew better, only after suffering through one.

    Also, you get about 20% less mileage than EPA with the Neon. You also get smoked by Civic VTECS because your performance starts to die out around 50K miles.

    So worst resale value EVER has to go to the Neon. Maybe the dealers low ball offer of $800 for one with 65K and in relatively "excellent" condition wasn't such a low ball offer afterall?

    Now comes the Caliber. Wow.. a Neon by any other name is what??? A Neon by anyother name is a Caliber. LOL. Same car maker, different name, I guarantee you that you will get the same quality (or lack thereof) and poor resale value. Mark my words, it won't be any better.

    It's like this Mexican taco stand near where I live. They've changed names 4 times in the last 4 years, but the food has never improved or really changed. It worked to trick me into going 3 times, but enough is enough. I would of never gone back if they didn't change their name (smart of them) And now, I will never go back, no matter if they change their name a 5th or 6th time.

    I think Dodge is employing their strategy (the lame taco shop).
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "...every 1,000 miles you drive costs you about $250 in repairs."

    I'm trying to picture all those 100,000 mile Neons out there that have cost their owners $25,000 in repairs.....you wouldn't be exaggerating, would you?
  • r_johnsn246r_johnsn246 Member Posts: 7
    Daewoo? what about it? Daewoo is horrible themselves. All operations such that has to do with Daewoo should be dropped immediately! Sell Sell SEll!!! Holden seems ok right now in the Australian market and the Euromarket doesnt seem bad, but I dont want to seem like they are awesome or anything, they have their share of problems too. Holden is a tough call. Just like Vauxhall and Opel. I would honestly say to try to push Vauxhall and Opel into one brand. Nut Holden... god. I think holden may be able to merge with Opel and Vauxhall too! It will save billions upon billions of dollars for GM. They are being really stubborn right now. If you were broke, would you not try to nip the problem in the bud like...NOW? i mean GM is moving at a snail's pace! Not even trying to do something drastic.
    Not to be mean, but if GM keeps this up, I will agree with the many that say GM needs to go down! They are just too slow! Saab? worthless? no way.
    Absolutely not. Saab is a luxury brand. Not many luxury brands are actually for sale. So why wont saab be sold to someone that will look after it better...more like Porsche or Peugeot? I think Porsche has more experience with Rallying (saab used too), Turbo engines (every Saab sedan has one), and luxury (the 9-7x is a joke compared to Volvo's XC90, imagine sharing parts with a Cayenne...).
    So, my point is, that GM should have only...5 brands at the most. Not 10 or so. The Euro comps should come together into one if they are so "close". And Chevy needs better vehicles (not to mention a new Camarro, it will attract alot of attention). Lastly, Saab needs to be treated with the Luxurious dignity that it deserves. Not like its a charity case! And too much blame is being toppled on out Swedish friend. Were people this hard on Cadillac when it was in the middle of its soul searching back in the 90's? Geez! But yeah, Buick needs to go bye bye now. And Saturn needs to be sold, and GMC and Pontiac needs to become 1. :shades:
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Daewoo? what about it? Daewoo is horrible themselves. All operations such that has to do with Daewoo should be dropped immediately! Sell Sell SEll!!!

    Daewoo no longer exists. GM and Suzuki bought some factories and IP rights from Daewoo.

    GM has used the facilities to greatly extend its reach in South Korea, China, India, and Eastern Europe.

    GM even gets the Aveo for the US market from Daewoo. Suzuki brings a few Daewoo sedans over as well.
  • lweisslweiss Member Posts: 342
    - Yes I think that GM is a good investment now. As John Templeton (a very savvy investor) said, "when pessimism is at it's peak, that's the time to buy"

    - Dodge Neon- My oldest daughter bought a used dark Green (many that color)1999 Neon- not many options, she bought it very cheap. And used it for almost 3 years, hardly an oil change, left the windows down at night (rained on a million times), used it for many trips to and from college 200 miles away- I think the total for repairs over 3 years was less than $300. And my son bought a nice used Infinity I20 when he was in college- and had one expensive repair after another!!! Go figure
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Caliber is a new car. It is not a Neon, not very attractive, seem so to be underpowered, but may appeal to those in need of something truly different, like a love of the Aztec car.

    Have no idea if it will be reliable or not.
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Maybe they could just buy out some newspapers, and print their own spin that way. Just a thought :D
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Which products by GM are you liking these days?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Caliber is a very sporty/attractive car and sales will do well if it is not overpriced.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Aveo, those funny narrow, yet tall looking, little econo cars - whoopie! Great intown scooters, I suppose.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    The issue is not whether you like them, but whether GM has a good thing with the former Daewoo assets.

    Even if the Aveo was not available here in the US, the Daewoo assets probably are a win for GM. The Chinese Daewoo kit sales alone are probably worth it.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Oh my, have you seen one??? A PT has character, a VW is ugly enough to be too cute, but a Caliber is just hard to explain. Makes the Xterra look normal. Actually, kinda like the old Xterra lego blocks look. Caliber more of just a mess. As is the Charger - yukkk!
    -Loren
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Not sure how you can say Daewoo does not exists. GM bought the some of their plants and their engineering facilities. It is now called GM-Daewoo.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Daewoo
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    re the Caliber, I have to wonder if it won't suffer the same fate as the Magnum. Guys buy them because they are enamored of the edgy look and the power, and NO ONE backs the car into a parking space when they test drive. Then, in real life, they realize, "I can't see a damned thing!!"

    Of course, you couldn't see out of a Dodge Grand Caravan and look how lousy its sales were. [sarcasm]

    How IS the Magnum doing?

    I wonder how the Caliber would do in a comparo with a Volvo V50. Of course, the Caliber is about 2/3 the cost of the Volvo. Can the Caliber match the Volvo in safety?

    er....weren't we talking about GM? sorry
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes, you are right. They are good for markets, like Japan, where all the cars are smaller. Good for small parking spaces and such. Yeap, they do have their place.

    Wonder who owns the gun and tank building assets of Daewoo?
    -Loren
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I agree about the theory of consolidating, but Saab is a dog. It has suffered the same fate that most quirky products suffer in the hands of mainstream ownership -- they lose the unique vibe that gave them their brand in the first place. It will never generate enough volume or have low enough costs to create big profits, at least as long as it continues to build in Europe, yet building Saabs outside of Europe can only make things worse. (The market doesn't want a Saab Subaru, apparently.)

    It isn't a matter of what cars we personally like, but what can be produced profitably and that work within a coherent branding strategy. GM lacks the latter, which keeps it from achieving the former, and needs to remedy this quickly. Building perhaps 20 US models marketed effectively under just a couple of badges, and building them very well, should help...but I doubt that this is going to happen.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Yessss. And?

    Daewoo Auto is no longer a company.

    After GM bought the assets from the Daewoo bankruptcy estate it set up a new company, which I believe is actually called GM-Daewoo Auto Technology. It has nothing to do with the original Daewoo.
  • r_johnsn246r_johnsn246 Member Posts: 7
    Its not that I like Saab, or like/dislike any of GM's brands, it is just that GM still has a huge, giant, chance with Saab that they NEED to take! Are Caddi's selling in Europe? No! Saab has something that Cadillac will never have. Europeans dont even like Cadillac, they dispise it. It is like a fish in dirt looking for water! Cadillacs do not sell in Europe. This is where Saab comes in. Cadillac can not do it alone. Saabs sell BIG in Europe. It is almost hard to keep them supplied! And I also think that you are correct that Unique cars start to lose their uniqueness when they are under Mass-branded ownership. When Saab was owned by Saab-Scania AB, it had a major deficite. And It grew bigger and bigger, but at least the products were unique. It had a hatchback that people loved to death, and what happened? Gm got a hold of it and took the hatch away. DUMB MOVE. now if they made the current 9-3's with a hatch. I would buy one in a heart beat. And GM is treating Saab like a crack patient because they are "brand sharing". People dont do that anymore, at least not on a major scale! Now if the rumors are true, Saab will be getting 3-4 brand new models in the next 4 years (and yes, they WILL be pure saab genuine), and the new 9-5 and 9-3, then it will indeed become profitable. From what i have heard, Saab is getting a Neo-Sonnet and returning to Hatchbacks in one model. If this is true, this will be the biggest return in history, bigger than Nissan/Infiniti's return, bigger than Caddi's return, bigger than the '05 Mustang. Saab lovers will rejoice. It will become a profit for our friend GM, and they will have a shot at kicking the crown right from off of Mercedez Benz's head.
    Now I agree when you said that Saab's dont need to be built outside of Europe, however, I do believe that the Chassis and the Engine, Trans. should be built in Sweden or Germany. Everything else could be built in Mexico or China. Gm did a stupid move when they made that Saabaru thing, and that Tahoe looking truck. I must admit, The front of those vehicles look quite good, but the designers must have gone on coffee break and never came back, so the back of the car must have had to have "other" influences. I think that GM is doing a very good job advertising for Saab lately too. That is one step that was taken correctly...
    P.S.-imagine if GM would hand pick the designers and Engineers from Sweden? That would be one tiny little step forward in the right direction. Oh, and what was said before about a mainstream ownership, it doesnt matter, Volvo and Land Rover are just fine, but of course, there is always gonna be one in the fam. that will jack things up (Jaguar). :(
This discussion has been closed.