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-Loren
Can we please promise to stop talking overnight realignment without a rational way to buy out the dealers? Somehow, I don't think this is the fantasy auto franchise forum.
Smoke and mirrors.
"The more rational response to Hyundai's warranties - and the reason GM stayed away from extending theirs - is that Hyundai is telling the market it makes junk, but don't worry, we will fix it."
I beg to differ! As one who's worked in manufacturing engineering, and actually specified warranty policies and terms, a company that offers long warranties can't afford to make junk. The warranty costs will eat them alive. In fact, the opposite is true. A company that offers a long-term warranty has great confidence that their product is a quality one with minimal long-term warranty requirements.
I'm sorry to break your bubble, but Hyundai does not use customers to Beta test their products.
I hope that those whom this applies to take this in the spirit in which it meant.
My grandfather and uncle worked for GM and I have owned GM products including SAAB as my last five automobiles.
Have a nice day
Would love to see a Monte or Malibu in coupe and sedan, with RWD and new six, perhaps an inline 6.
Overall, a good little vehicle.
As for Social Security, it would have helped if the government had actually saved the money we have put into the pot. I.O.U. notes are not worth much. Guess people will have to work for other makes, if the Big Two no longer have product. If they have product people desire, and it can be made in USA for a reasonable price, then it happen. No magic to it.
Wow, then what the heck is everyone other than Hyundai and Kia saying? They build them to last 5 years but forget about anybody who drives more than 12,000 mimes per year? That their powertrains are trashier than GM?
Recall that most new car buyers sell their car by year 5. GM's warranty is great for those who drive more than 12K per year which is most drivers. And for those who buy up the used 2-3 year lease cars they (new car owner/company) can get more money and the residuals go up. Good deal for GM and both the new and used car buyers.
How can someone cut down a company when it's warranty is better than everyone elses except two companies. Boggles the mind.
It is the same warranty on Honda and Toyota and most others. Guess they make money on the parts too?
Can anyone see the disparity in thinking here? Because GM does it it is bad and they are making money in parts while everyone else is just OKDokee.
Last I read here and saw at the stores, Honda and Toyota have parts counters in their dealerships!!! Trolling continually about GM and quality because you had an s-10 or whatever that didn't work for you won't change opinions.
>3 year/ 36000 miles on Chevys.
5years / 100000 miles drivetrain warranty. You know that; why are you distorting the facts?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Bright red with white leather interior. Sounds good, too.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Wow that is a lot of new vehicles in one year. Can any other company do the same? Perhaps Nissan is the closest.
In a slightly different look what else needs replacement at GM? Criteria is long life cycle (over 4 years) and/or need updating due to sales/quality issues. (other than vehicles mentioned above)
At Chevy most all the cars are less than 2 or 3 years old. Most all selling well. Malibu is replaced in a year and it really is hole in Chevies line up. In trucks the trailblazer is old, as is the Colorado. But it may be they do not replace the Trailblazer. Perhaps the Equinox could be updated? Minivan is new but needs complete redo.
GMC has the same issues at Chevy for trucks BUT they do get the Arcadia to sorta replace the Envoy (if they drop the Envoy).
At Pontiac the Grand Prix is getting long in the tooth. It is now 4 years old! maybe a replacement in 2008? Wonder if they will replace the Vibe/Matrix? Minivan is being dropped.
At Saturn the Vue is getting old but I think the replacement is coming soon. Other than that all brand new.
Buick is dropping their minivan/Rendezvous when the Enclave comes out. Lucerne is brand new. LaCrosse is 3 years old and a replacement soon.
Cadillac has nothing older than 2 years except the STS and the XLR. Vehicles like the XLR have longer life cycles. STS will problaby come out 1-2 years after the CTS?
Nt sure about Saab and Hummer but do not seem that old.
Did I miss any?
Gold Overall Annual Report
Gold Chairman's Letter
Bronze Written Text
In addition, the 2005 GM Annual Report received an American Graphic Design Award for excellence in communication and graphic design. This award was received by only 50 of the 5,000 entries submitted.
The ARC Awards, established in 1987, were created to honor overall excellence in annual reports, and to encourage noteworthy and vital writing, as well as imaginative and original design. This year's entries were submitted by companies located in 26 countries representing over 200 industries.
And I think GM is moving as best they can to re-structure the company into a smaller, but at least profitable company- they have to face reality that a 20-25% market share in North America is what they will get. My concern is that the past 10 years have shown that even when they start with a "blank slate", some of their new designs and types of vehicles really miss the mark. And some of their successes (Saturn Sky, Chevy HHR) are still pretty low volume. So they have lots of work to do. I think they are making progress- not out of the woods yet, but not all doom and gloom.
Have other car companies had new designs and types of vehicles that miss the mark?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That's their biggest competitive advantage and has fueled their climb to respectibility. Why would they drop it when it's going well? They've actually got the biggest car company on the planet trying to catch up.
Of course they have. I don't think that the issue is a design that missed the mark, it's alienating customers through consistent mediocrity and shooting for the middle for 2 decades.
I'm not buying a car two decades ago. I'm buying a car _now_.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If your reality is Middle Earth, perhaps.
Chrysler did manage to pull some back with standout styling (not that I like it particularly) on the 300 and more recently on the Caliber.
Rocky
Then we can continue to discuss warranties, managerial savvy, relations with the UAW, build quality, reliability, pricing, AND styling.
Agree with your point. There is nothing sacred about a title. This board's title was originally about "2006 styling" and it was changed to simply "styling".
Styling is too narrow of a topic about saving GM and would hope that our host would think about broadening it to what you suggest or something similar. As an alternative, perhaps the host would consider closing down this board and opening up a new one with your suggestion of: "What will it take to save GM?". Come to think of it, there could be similar boards for Ford and Chrysler. Another alternative or addition could be one big grand board, "What will it take to save the 2 US branded car companies + Chrysler"?.
I would not put Ford and Chrysler all together. While the problems are similar between Ford and GM, Ford is about a year or two behind in the a lot of the changes that GM has implemented.
I had troubles with Ford's junk through the early years. That was when I chose cars based on image and how they made me feel rather than picking a good car. Zoom. Zoom. etc.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The title of this topic was "will styling for 2006 save GM" - since they have not gone bankrupt yet, we have to conclude yes.
Concerning the LaCrosse sales: LaCrosse is selling better than the Regal did. Not as well as Century. The Lucerne is doing better than the LaCrosse, which is very interesting.
I always thought that during the 1960s and early 1970s, GM cars had more youthful and upscale image when compared to Ford, Chrysler and AMC offerings. The two exceptions were the Mustang and Thundebird.
During the 1960s, Chevrolet and (especially) Pontiac were the hot ticket for the young, "with it" buyers. The Olds Cutlass and 442 also had a very good image.
During the mid-1970s, about the only cars we lusted after in high school were the Camaro Z-28 and Pontiac Firebird Trans Am.
If you were lucky, your parents thought "young," and they bought a Cutlass Supreme coupe, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Regal or Chevrolet Monte Carlo or Laguna S-3. The Ford and Chrysler offerings weren't really up there in image or status (except for the Lincoln Continentals and Marks), and the AMC offerings were a joke.
I'm not saying that GM cars were bad, or all show and no go, but they were also bought for image by lots of people.
I had troubles with Ford's junk through the early years."
Just out of curiousity, what would it take to get you back in a Ford?
And if you're buying GM, you're still getting a mediocre product. What mass market car is class leading? The products appear improved, but still not best in class.
My oh my that Grand Prix needs a redo...it may only be 4 years old, but it looks a good few years older. One of GMs heavier handed current products, and another vehicle that rarely sells to private parties.
Saab 9-5 has a new face, but the basics are quite old, 1999 or so.
Aftermarket parts at you local favorite parts store would probably be less than buying at the dealership as well.
It just happens that GM makes more vehicles that fit my needs that most of my needs and is usually competitively priced if not less that some of the others I would consider.
The Grand Prix is on the W-platform, which was new around 1988. The Grand Prix is probably going to be replaced with a RWD.
Did you see that one on Motor Trend? It looks just like the GTO they just killed in 4 door form with a gaudy wing on it. I'm all for family styling, but Pontiac sticks with that beak theme a little too much since it doesn't seem to resonate with most buyers. Something closer to the Solstice would seem fresher.
But the interiors on both of them were/are so cheap. Even on the new one, the dash plastics are hard, the gaps are uneven and the little 4 bit graphics on the information display are so 80's. The front seats are cushy and unsupportive, the rear seats are "cupped" in a way that your bottom is forced away from the rear cusion leaving an uncomfortable arch in your lower back. And head room in the rear seats is sorely lacking so your head hits the rear window if you lean back.
On the reliability front, the 99' ran for 150,000 miles before getting traded (He bought it out after the 2 year co. lease). By that time the car had a slipping tranny, a broken Window regulator and was on its third set of ball joints. Oh and I think the Radiator was done somewhere in that time as well. But the car didn't let him down. The 04' is up to something like 50 - 60k now and has a couple of dash lights going off and on and brakes on all 4 corners need to be replaced (pads, rotors). Oh and the intake manifold cracked and was replaced the first month he owned it.
But they have been somewhat reliable. Just your typical no frills 3800 with a 4 speed. Nothing special, but they get the job done. :shades:
I was really looking more at a class 3 rating such as Envoy or Yukon that has a 36mo 36,000 mile warranty. Adding 36 mo 60,000 mile extension (if vehicle is 24 months old and has 24000 miles) would bring your total warranty up to 60 months and 84,000 miles) list is $1695, discounted price is $1225. These are for $0 deductible, less expensive for $100 deductible plans. Much less that $3-4000.
The pricing and terms have changed a little in the past couple of years. Purchased one on a new 2004 Envoy XL in May, 2004 and back then the plans started at 'in-service date and miles'. Now they start at date of purchase and mileage and add the # months and # miles to what you already have.
Check it out at www.gmoutlet.com if you want details.
2 Important Notes:
******************
A: The GMPP 2006 Pricing Expires on 9-30-2006. The HIGER Pricing 2007 GMPP Program starts on 10-1-2006. Buy BEFORE 9-28-2006 to save!
B: If you are inquiring on a 2007 “NEW GM Vehicle” call us at 877-472-9550 as the new lower prices were just released reflecting the new 5yr / 100,000 miles included Engine & Transmission New Vehicle Warranty. (The new lower prices are not online).
As far as styling saving GM, well it's about more than just that. I think many will agree that GM, across the board makes the best styled exteriors. The interiors have always been the low for GM, OTOH we are finally seeing that when GM, puts its mind to a goal it can accomplish it. I know I sound like a typical GM, apologist and I "might" just be one. :P I however as a critic can recognize the bad past also.
I do believe we are witnessing history because the biggest turn around in corporate america's history is taking place before our eyes. Perhaps someday the new generation UAW, workers will have a pay and benefits package that is a benchmark. Hopefully by that time we as a society experience a overhaul of ethics both by business and government. However I do believe the worst is yet to come before we begin to see changes for the good.
I guess the "Rise and the Fall" of great empires takes place on this earth. Thankfully GM, didn't "crash and burn" and addressed the problems. I agree the problems are far from over and lots of new styling and engineering needs to take place. This will be a company life-long business health plan.
Once GM offers class leading products and sales then it will signal a complete turn-around of once was considered the greatest company on this nations earth. Perhaps a merge of two corporate dinosaurs like General Motors and Ford, the soldiers can join hands and turn to wipe out new foes that have attempted to send both dinosaurs to extinction. I as a huge fan of my last two remaining domestic automobile manufactors can only keep my fingers crossed and pray they can win the war, since they have lost a few battles along the way to the present.
Rocky
LaCrosse is selling at about the same ATP as the Regal. Remember that the Regal had an outrageous life cycle and was heavily incentivised and fleeted. Century sold at a much lower price point. Brand new ones often at under $20K.
laCrosse has plenty of competition in the premium midsize. Lucerne has basically no competition except maybe the Avalon.
Rarely is a car all new. CTS is based on the same architecture but to the consumer all visible parts will be different. Perhaps the same floorpan and suspension.
Well I suppose one could also throw in a Acura TL, and maybe even a RL, as competition. What about as Lexus ES ?
But yeah I agree the Avalon is by far the main competitor and I think the Lucerne does a decent job in a comparo.
Rocky