Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
General Motors discussions
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=208501405
Okay, not in New York, but pretty close. \
But me - I'm waiting for two year old ones - next fall is the time to move. 15K and um - *slightly* better than a Corolla. Heh.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
-----------------------------------------------------------
Will the designs coming from Europe and Australia be better? It will be interesting to watch the reliability reports.
Todays cars will run on regular fuel with no problem. The computer will simply adjust accordingly. They say you will get a bit less mpg and power though. If there is a big price differential, I run regular in our 03 Avalon and notice no difference. At a 10 cent price premium I almost never use premium.
Rocky
20" wheels on my car would look retarded, dubs on my fintail would be insulting to the car. But on a big fat SUV, they look more normal, yeah.
I guess fintail I like the "bling, bling" on about any new sporty or luxury car. The new Acura TL Type-S has the worst gray rims of any car ever made. :surprise:
Rocky
-Loren
Rocky
-Loren
Well, I'm with you all the way lemko - having rode in the back seat of a Corolla last Friday, I'd EASY take the Lucerne, even if it cost more! So maybe you're not a minority. Besides, the Lucerne is ugly, but the Corolla is no looker either, so why would anybody buy the Corolla over the Lucerne except for possibly gas mileage?
1. WHEN BUYING NEW, GO FOR BEST RESALE.
2. WHEN BUYING USED, GO FOR WORST RESALE. (Lets say 3 years old coming off lease and planning to drive it til it drops as best case.)
GENERAL MOTORS PRODUCTS
I have been watching with interest the proposed alliance with Nissan and Renault, and I just read the USA Today article on Rick Wagoner. While he talks about a turn around, there is little mention of product. I also recently read a comment from a GM official at Pontiac, I believe. The gist of it was that GM would not try to match quality, or refinement, with the top Japanese brands but would try to sell enough to survive by selling multiple brands. Anyone who thinks like this has no business in the organization. I couldn't believe what I was reading. American automobile company’s have been piddling around with their heads in the sand for well over twenty years, poo poo-ing the threat from Japan until it was too late to handle and now, one has to wonder how long you can survive. While Rick may be doing good things, you need to think PRODUCT, PRODUCT, PRODUCT.
I just read an article on the new Impala. It said the car was hard to fault - IN A VACUUM! But when compared to the Camry, Accord etc, it was lacking. TWENTY PLUS YEARS AND IT STILL COMES UP SHORT. Unbelievable. Another review compared the new Pontiac retractable convertible to the Volvo (I think) and said there was NO comparison. The Volvo was far better. WHY? Did Pontiac use the head-in-the-sand isolationist approach? Something is very wrong here. Surely GM has better expertise and tools. You know folks, it's hard to sell mediocre.
OK, talk is cheap. So what would I do? Well, maybe your products are better than we think. I have been driving foreign products for over twenty years. Why? I am only willing to pay for a product once. Not again in maintenance and repairs. I don’t want to lose my butt on horrible resale value. I still don't trust your products. I'm not willing to pay the price of a new vehicle that can't hold it's own on resale value, not to mention reliability. OK, maybe you have improved there. When you start kicking their butts on this, make a refined and fun car to drive that will hold it's value, I may be back. I always used to drive GM products as did my parents. Our kids drive Japanese. It's tough to turn back.
You say you have competitive products. How are we to know, with no good reason to visit a GM dealer? Well, every year I attend the BMW/Komen test drive. What a great way to discover what their products are all about. So, why aren't you doing it? You MUST get people back into your cars if they are to see that you now have a product they would be willing to buy. This is an excellent way to do it.
ENGINEERING: They cannot operate in a vacuum either. Buy the best in class. Assign them to your design/engineering people and rotate them through on a weekly or monthly turnover. THEN TELL THEM TO GO AWAY, DESIGN YOUR PRODUCT TO EQUAL AND PREFERABLY BETTER THAN THE BEST IN CLASS, AT, OR UNDER, THEIR PRICE POINT, AND DON'T COME BACK UNTIL YOU DO. YOUR VERY JOB DEPENDS ON IT.
PRODUCT FEEDBACK: Every service call on a vehicle should be automatically fed back to engineering - NOT marketing or bean counters for review. When a failure rate for a part, area, whatever goes over say, 1 - 3% ??,? a red flag is raised, and an engineer is assigned to find a solution within a short time frame. Then implement it.
Read every review and note ALL negative comments. Assign engineering to improve what ever it is. You MUST, if you are to improve your game. LOOK AT HYUNDAI. They came out with a new product, and it was a piece of crap. See what they did and learn from it. THEY CAME FROM LAST PLACE AND PASSED YOU IN A FEW SHORT YEARS. What is your excuse?
Now, you may, and I hope you already do these things. But if you are, IT"S NOT WORKING VERY WELL. HYUNDAI PASSED YOU. If that doesn't wake you up, heads should roll. Excuses don't count.
I do like what I see from Cadillac, Solstice etc. If you think this is all sour grapes, let me say, I do see hope. In fact, I just bought some GM stock, but I want my investment protected and to see it grow. You are still far from being where you should be.
THE ALLIANCE: I have mixed feelings. I WOULD like to see Ghosn have override power. He has proven himself, and may spot things that could be done better. I would also like to see new, or prototype designs exchanged with other brands engineering groups to be critiqued and improved before production. This could evolve into a team that does this for all products. They should also be driving best in class to keep up to speed on the latest and best. I used to work directly with designers, and would search for existing or cheaper alternate components, and we saved lots of money this way. Nissan may give you valuable input from a Japanese prospective that could be applied across the board. You need their kind of thinking and to learn from it. OR, hire some of the Japanese manufacturers people to implement changes. There is always a better way. Anything you pay a top individual will pay dividends. If they don't produce, fire them. Oh yea, keep em away from the union. Chrysler has improved their image – and probably saved money by using Mercedes parts. If Nissan or Renault has a better design that you could use, do it, and vice-versa.
Sorry for the negatives, but believe that if I didn't care, I wouldn't have taken the time. I don't drive American - yet. I hope you can change that.
Hopefully, we can all be in such comfortable financial condition, that we don't care if we lose money on our ca purchase. We can drive what we like.
But if you are living close to the margin, and if losing a few thousand bucks over a few years is a problem, then buying new is not wise.
I do have another (competing) argument, however, and that is that we ALL owe it to the country (and to the world) to buy NEW cars, to push worse MPG and worse emissions vehicles off our roads. And it stimulates the economy. Buying used doesn't accomplish either of these goals as quickly or as much as buying new.
So, if you have the $$, then you owe it to the world to buy new. If not, then go out and buy used.
I just think it is silly when people buy new and say they bought that particular new car because of its great resale value. That means you bought the car as a financial proposition. If that IS the case, then you should have bought used.
Buyer: "Woo-hoo! I bought a new Corolla because it has great resale."
Wise Advisor: "Er, yeah, but you could have driven around in luxury in a two-year old Lucerne and be in better financial position three years from now than with your new Corolla"
;-)
In my 40+ years of car ownership I've purchased ony one care made in the USA, and that is an Acura. I too would prefer that my country produce the best products for my needs that I would be pleased to own, and that preference has NOTHING to do with styling.
2006 Lucerne
Might as well copy a winner
Rocky
Funny thing about the Lucerne...at this level of depreciation, I might actually consider one as an everyday car once it is a couple years old. It'd have to be totally loaded - all safety features - but I can't see anything with so much content for the buck. I used to think used Deville/DTS were a good buy, but this is like the same stuff for 60% the price.
This is the best picture for you non Motor Trend subscribers I know of for the all new Grand Prix due out in a few years.
Fintail, is it time to trade in the the C43 ? :P J/K but I personally like it. It just needs a mega-watt 7.1 DVD-A surround sound system and a few more gadgets for lets say $35,000 and it would be crowned the new king of the 3 series crowd.
Rocky
Rocky
Sometimes I'd like something where I can haul 4 people vs 3 (the C43 has poor rear legroom, and I drive with the seat all the way back as I am relatively tall, so it's a 3 seater)....if the Lucerne does well in reliability over the next year or two, it could be a good one to go after.
Sonata is cleaner, flows better, grill looks classier.
It's like the Lucerne uglied up a good design!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes it's a Holden, in fact it's a Holden Commodore SSV pal.
It aint gonna replace my car, and I'm not going to spend 35K on any car anyway. I like cars, but I'm also a cheapskate in some ways.
That's hard to believe that you are a cheapskate. :surprise: A man that drives a Mercedes, I'd would think would be a high-roller
Sometimes I'd like something where I can haul 4 people vs 3 (the C43 has poor rear legroom, and I drive with the seat all the way back as I am relatively tall, so it's a 3 seater)....if the Lucerne does well in reliability over the next year or two, it could be a good one to go after.
So you like to do the "Detroit Lean" as my grandfather calls it also. Yeah, I like to recline and sit relatively low like you pal. I prefer a car that has good lateral leg support that gives comfort to my lower thigh area.
The Lucerne, will make a great used car IMHO. So would the DTS. If the DTS, had a Bose 5.1 Studio Surround Sound System, their is no doubt I'd buy one used in a few years and pay a little more for one.
Rocky
Okay.....?
Rocky
What does ROTF mean?
On the Holden G8, why does it look kust like a 4 door version of the GTO that they just killed? Do they ever learn?
I don't think so! For one thing, it looks like a current Grand Prix.
I admire your optimism Rocky, but no BMW 3 Series buyer is going to be interested in a Pontiac that still looks like a 10 year old model that they peeled the plastic cladding off of, and added the racing stuff along the bottom. Instead of bringing out SUV's GM is concentrating on gas guzzling racing models, is this what most buyers are looking for?
I would like to see GM succeed but I really have to wonder, keep shooting themselves in the foot!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
ROTFLMAO= Rolling On The Floor Laughing My [non-permissible content removed] Off
On the Holden G8, why does it look kust like a 4 door version of the GTO that they just killed? Do they ever learn?
Actually if you look close it looks quite a bit different in my eyes. The interior is very much updated in the aussie version. I do hope for the U.S. market they bring a few more gadgets along to really make it a winner. :shades:
I also think the G8, Holden Commodore, aka Grand Prix, will be a sales winner if they can deliver the content and price.
Rocky
In the case of a BMW where the car is loved, looking close to see the difference is good. Pontiac sticks to the beaknose style but it just doesn't resonate with most buyers. If you have to look too close to tell the difference between the G8 and the GTO, that's a problem. Also, what's with the boy racer wing? You don't see those on BMWs and Acuras.
I think you need to take off your goggles, and look at a current Grand Prix vs. the pic I posted above. :surprise:
I admire your optimism Rocky, but no BMW 3 Series buyer is going to be interested in a Pontiac that still looks like a 10 year old model that they peeled the plastic cladding off of, and added the racing stuff along the bottom.
Thanx for admiring my optomism. I also think a true brand wearing BMW, also gets caught up with wearing peoples names on his jeans since he/she doesn't have enough self confidence in him/her self. The same apply's with his/hers cars IMHO.
Instead of bringing out SUV's GM is concentrating on gas guzzling racing models, is this what most buyers are looking for?
They are doing both. When you are as big as GM, you can mix and match the flavor of the day. I think a car company that only does "one direction" engineering like Hyundai, is bland and boring. Who's to say the next Grand Prix, won't offer a hybrid version anyways ?
I would like to see GM succeed but I really have to wonder, keep shooting themselves in the foot!!!
I don't think they are currently shooting themselves in the foot. The GTO, was a great car, but it looked nothing like what a GTO, should of. I think it would of been more successful with another name. I'd like to see GM, try it again since the car was one of GM's best and helped give people hope when it came to interior quality and "fit and finish"
Rocky
Well I see plenty of M's and RSX's with boy racer wings. :confuse:
Pontiac sticks to the beaknose style but it just doesn't resonate with most buyers.
Well the same styling for 50 or 60 years has worked for Porsche. They must have the lowest R&D costs of any manufactor in the world since it isn't hard to modify their styling. :confuse: The same can almost be said about BMW, until Bangle ruined it. :mad:
Rocky