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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    GM, which is launching patriotic ad campaign this weekend, expects new truck to be key to turnaround.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060926/AUTO01/609260368/1148-

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Patriotism linked with consumerism is pretty uncool
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well they are trying to do whatever it takes to get you and I to shop for one. ;) I'm sure MB does the same in Germany. ;)

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I am sure it will work for the target market....but waving a flag to encourage people to shop is really lame. The vehicle itself should be emphasized. Many people will roll their eyes at such ad campaigns.

    I think there's more longterm national identity with someone like MB in Germany...the company is effectively 120 years old, and they never had a really rough time like the domestics have in the past 30 years. So hordes of people never abandoned them, and they don't have to preach. MB tends to dwell on its own history rather than waving a flag.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is true. Mercedes, also at one time not many years ago was only building cars in Germany.

    Rocky
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    Patriotism linked with consumerism is pretty uncool
    I have to agree, see story below. I believe the ad was pulled though.....

    COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - A car dealership's planned radio advertisement that declared "a jihad on the automotive market" has drawn sharp criticism for its content but will not be changed, the business said Saturday.

    Several stations rejected the Dennis Mitsubishi spot, which says sales representatives wearing "burqas" — head-to-toe traditional dress for Islamic women — will sell vehicles that can "comfortably seat 12 jihadists in the back."

    "Our prices are lower than the evildoers' every day. Just ask the pope!" the ad says. "Friday is fatwa Friday, with free rubber swords for the kiddies." A fatwa is a religious edict.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Yep, that ad campaign was canceled and the ads never actually ran.

    But look at all the free publicity they got.....
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    Yep...I guess anyway. When I got the fresh pricing from GMOUTLET the other day I got a follow up e-mail stating that they had the new prices lists to reflect pricing on the '07s with 100,000K powertrain warranty...but did not have it posted on their pricing page...call them to get the details.
    They also noted that a price increase on GMPP takes effect 10/1/2006.

    If you go ahead and buy the GMPP from the get go, I think you get loaner/rental coverage on overnight repairs for the full term. It looks as if the prices go up maybe a $100 per year/12000 mile increment if you wait (looking at the class 3 like the 2wd Envoy). So it is just about a wash considering the cost of having your money tied up for the extra time.

    I'm just getting nervous about owning a vehicle without warranty for too long a term. Most of these new vehicles have too much electronics and high tech stuff that is expensive to repair.
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    "I am sure it will work for the target market....but waving a flag to encourage people to shop is really lame. The vehicle itself should be emphasized. Many people will roll their eyes at such ad campaigns."

    Yeah, it will work for the target market, who will then promptly install a gun rack in the rear window, and proceed to fill up the bed with beer cans.... and ironically, probably install a confederate rebel flag somewhere. :D

    "I think there's more longterm national identity with someone like MB in Germany...the company is effectively 120 years old, and they never had a really rough time like the domestics have in the past 30 years."

    Mercedes also exports a lot more cars than the US automakers do. You see them the world over; the middle east, Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, even Austrailia. And 'Patriotic Nationalism' in Germany pretty much went out with Hitler.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So the GMPP instead of dropping is going up ? What ? That's weird. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I disagree and think Germans are still proud of who they are and yes agree they want to forget the bad in there past. ;) My point is the Germans mainly drive German built auto's because they are proud of the craftsmenship in each vehicle. ;)

    Rocky
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    "Germans mainly drive German built auto's because they are proud of the craftsmenship in each vehicle."

    As well they should be, I think they build the most solid and best engineered cars in the world, the ones every other automaker uses as a benchmark to shoot for (MB for luxury and bank vault solidity, Audi for interior quality & design, and BMW for performance and driver involvement). I didn't mean to imply that the Germans aren't proud of who they are, just that they don't do the gung-ho flag waving fever that has become so prevailent here over the last decade...
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "As well they should be, I think they build the most solid and best engineered cars in the world, the ones every other automaker uses as a benchmark to shoot for..."

    So, does this mean that MB/BMW don't use the 'flag-waving' tactic to attract/keep buyers because they don't NEED to (due to a better product) or simply because such campaigns are beneath them?

    Rather than discuss German built auto's, why not the French and Renault? I wonder if Renault ever uses any of the same type of 'flag-waving' nonsense to sell cars?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well I think the flag waving thing really has hit here at home ever since 9/11. I guess american business's think they can use patriotism to help make a buck. I see it everywhere not just from GM guys/gals ;)

    Rocky
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    "So, does this mean that MB/BMW don't use the 'flag-waving' tactic to attract/keep buyers because they don't NEED to (due to a better product) or simply because such campaigns are beneath them?"

    Probably both....

    "Rather than discuss German built auto's, why not the French and Renault?"

    Well, probably because they don't sell cars here any more, and are no competition to GM, at least here in America.

    "I wonder if Renault ever uses any of the same type of 'flag-waving' nonsense to sell cars?"

    Of course not... they're from FRANCE!!! LOLOLOL ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That's wrong, lol ! :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'll catch up with y'all later....I gotta go to a union meeting to discuss how to best use y'alls tax dollars. I'll be looking forward to seeing what other idea's y'all come up with on how to solve GM's problems. ;)

    Rocky
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    Me too... It's sunny, 70 degrees, and my Heritage Softail is just sitting out there calling me! :)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Of course not... they're from FRANCE!!! LOLOLOL "

    Great.....EVERYBODY'S a comedian. (rolls eyes....)

    No, what I mean is, does Renault use 'patriotism' to sell FRENCH cars to the FRENCH......in FRANCE.

    What I'm saying is that IMO GM using 'flag-waving' tactics to push product is by no means limited to either GM in particular or to American companies in general.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    wideglide: As well they should be, I think they build the most solid and best engineered cars in the world, the ones every other automaker uses as a benchmark to shoot for (MB for luxury and bank vault solidity, Audi for interior quality & design, and BMW for performance and driver involvement). I didn't mean to imply that the Germans aren't proud of who they are, just that they don't do the gung-ho flag waving fever that has become so prevailent here over the last decade...

    Parts of that view are about 20 years out of date, unless "best engineered" is now synonomous with "overly complicated and very expensive."

    The solidity of a new Mercedes isn't what one could have expected from a Benz 20 years ago.

    And when VW places either last or next-to-last on virtually every quality survey, and EVERYONE I know who owns a VW says it will be their last one...let's just say that "solid" and "well engineered" are not the first words that pop into my mind when someone says "VW."

    As for how the Germans view the products of the home industry - my German relatives were quite candid in expressing their views about the latest from Mercedes and VW. They believe that the quality of both has declined markedly in the last 10 or so years.

    At least they still have BMW and Porsche...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...and transmission specialists everywhere will be immediately paying off their mortgages and their kids will all go to Ivy League schools! All praise be to Lexus!
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    Hell, I'm 20 years out of date! That's what 25 years of riding Harleys will do to ya! :) Now I'm off to do some riding....
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, even WalMart's into the flag waving thing...Hey! The U.S. flag isn't red with five yellow stars in the corner!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    To GM's defense, they've used the flag waving theme for a long time before today's paranoid nationalistic climate, it goes back to the 50s at least It's kind of their hallmark, and maybe from that context isn't really an evil. It just seems like a lazy way out when a new product is coming.

    I haven't seen any foreign automobile ad campaigns centered on flag waving as they are here. Ford has done some Canadian-themed ads, especially for the F-series.

    LOL at the red flag...
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    To GM's defense, they've used the flag waving theme for a long time

    See the U.S.A. in your Chevrolet....da da da Dina Shore

    Not too many countries are as outwardly patriotic as Americans. I haven't seen any "patriotic" advertising in England.....most advertising tries to be clever, cute, or funny to get your interest. In Europe I think it would be embarassing to try to build flag waving into selling cars.

    It is definitely lame to try to play the patriotic card. An American Revolution is kind of catchy, not so blatantly playing on patriotism.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldsowner4oldsowner4 Member Posts: 1
    I am one GM owner who would not be swayed by an extended warranty - in fact it would make me even more dubious.

    I purchased an Oldsmobile in July 2002. GM offered all buyers a 60 month /60 thousand mile warranty to quell fears about buying from a soon to be defunct division. The assurance of the warranty was the main reason I took the risk of buying an Olds.

    The car has been reasonably good but recently developed problems (leaks and broken electric windows) that needed dealer attention. As no Olds dealers exist anymore, GM orders you to take it to a Buick dealer. Thus I cannot go to the Chevy dealer at the end of the street.

    The Buick dealer gave me the estimate of several hundred dollars for repairs. I said it was covered by my GM Protection Plan and dutifully read him the info from my GM Protection Plan issued card that confirms I have a 60month/60K miles warranty. The car is four years old and only has 26,000 miles (thus the problems are not from excessive use).

    The Buick dealer checked his computer and said no such warranty is on the GM computer. He directed me to call the GM Protection Plan people. A call to GM Protection Plan got no where, they said I did not have a warranty. I asked them why I have a card from them as well as the paperwork from them and the dealer saying I have a warranty? They said that was between me and the dealer, who of course is non-existent as all Olds dealers are defunct. I offered to fax GM information showing them the protection plan documents they sent me, and the purchase information. GM Protection said they don't care and would not even give a fax number.
    I asked to talk to a supervisor - they told me it was useless but agreed to put me into voice mail limbo.

    In short, GM has absolved itself of any responsibility to uphold their protection plan for their car. Thus, anyone would be just plain foolish to base their buying decision on a GM warranty. Like me, a GM buyer may just be given a meaningless piece of plastic that says you have a GM warranty only to be denied later.

    Any prospective buyers of cars from divisions that GM may eliminate like Oldsmobile, such as Buick or Saturn, should be exceedingly wary. Warranties are a good way to dump cars if there is no intention to honor the warranty. Like me, no dealer may be left to later verify your transaction or fix your car in the future.

    As someone who has always bought American cars, I have bought the last GM product I will ever buy. It is not just the car, it is the service that counts in the long run.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    What Oldsmobile did you buy in 2002?

    I just checked the website oldsmobile.com and they give an 800 number to call and say you can take your car to any GM dealer. They don't say it has to go to a Buick dealer.

    Why don't you check with your "Chevy dealer at the end of the block" and see what they say.

    You can always contact your attorney general about what to do about warranty if the local dealer doesn't satisfy you.

    I note this was your first post and you just registered today. Welcome.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    This is the first article I have seen in several weeks that gives any indication talks are still going on.

    I don't see what GM gets from this deal in their current situation. Kerkorian and other large shareholders would be big winners.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    two Saturns, a 94 SL1 for our business and an 02 SL2 for our son. Both have been great and very easy on gas also, consistently in the 35-42 mpg range on hiway trips.

    I hadn't thought about GM's warranty being a challenge to Hyundai but you are probably right. The GM warranty is fully transferrable for its duration which should make used GM vehicles more attractive at resale time.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    I think they build the most solid and best engineered cars in the world, the ones every other automaker uses as a benchmark to shoot for (MB for luxury and bank vault solidity)

    is very true. It is an accurate description of the 1987 MB model lineup.

    Trouble is, the 07 model line is what is for sale in MB showrooms today.
  • scott1256scott1256 Member Posts: 531
    MB and BMW seem to be hooked on their extremely complicated controls.

    Lucas electronics wrecked the British car industry. In their case it was terrible reliablity, not complicated controls.

    Lucas was nicknamed 'the prince of darkness'. IIRC this came from a reviewer who had lights on a Jaguar turn off completely with no warning at high speed.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Some articles here in Detroit. Ghosn seems to be pissed that GM is not taking them seriously. I think the problem is that Ghosn wants GM to combine platforms with them and GM has no intention to do that since they already share the platforms around the world. Problem is that here in america the overhead is killing GM.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,593
    Trouble is, the 07 model line is what is for sale in MB showrooms today.

    IMO new MB's are pretty solid too. Remember, some new models are a lot less expensive than ever before, and there is a lot more gadgetry. But 72% of all Mercedes sold in America are still on the road, so I think you are getting a lot of good solid car with great technology, for a fair price.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    See the USA in your Chevrolet
    America is asking you to call
    Drive your Chevrolet through the USA
    America's the greatest land of all

    On a highway, or a road along the levy
    Performance is sweeter, nothing can beat her
    Life is completer in a Chevy

    So make a date today to see the USA
    And see it in your Chevrolet

    Traveling East, Travelling West
    Wherever you go Chevy service is best
    Southward or North, near place or far
    There's a Chevrolet dealer for your Chevrolet car

    So make a date today to see the USA
    And see it in your Chevrolet.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    it has to be honored. it depends on how much effort is put into avoidance. how many have heard, "can't duplicate", "they all do that", etc...?
    i have all fords, but i got my mom, now 75, to buy an '03 malibu after 40+ years of chrysler.
    at 20k her brakes were vibrating. i told her to take it to the dealer to see what happens. they fixed the brakes no charge. it can be a tough balance. nobody wants to get taken advantage of; corporate, dealer, customer. any one can screw up the balance. i have hope.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    So I go to work and five pages get posted.

    1: I call all modern Mercedes "Plasti-Cedes" and for good reason. They have effectively sunk to Lexus levels, which while still good, isn't worth the ungodly premiums anymore.

    2: Inline 6s save weight over a V6. Note that a 3.0L I-6 in the GS300 puts out about the same HP, withing maybe 5%, of a 3.5-3.8L V6. GM needs to shed weight off of its cars and fast. Going to inline engines is a total no-brainer for them, as is RWD.

    I-6 engines can be made down to almost 2.0L in size and whomp on most 4s doing it. You don't need a 4L monster - you can get my with a small I6 and offer it as at least an upgrade to the pathetic GM 4s at no cost.

    As for Buick - an nice I6 is refined. And that's exactly what GM needs right now. That the base Lucerne has that old of an engine in it is almost a crime. At least toss the i-6 that they make in it and then toss some VVT as well. 250HP and smooth as silk.
  • alp8alp8 Member Posts: 656
    Europeans can't use the flag-waiving approach the way we do because it would backfire - there are too many folks from other countries living IN Germany and France, and they'd not take that jingoistic approach too kindly, I would guess. Remember, many of those countries are the size of large US states.

    I'm not sure what drives so many French to drive Renaults, and Germans to drive MBs, etc. Maybe those car companies know their local markets better than foreign companies do?

    or maybe it's because if you are at a MB dealer, they give the German buyer a much better price once the "foreign" buyer leaves the showroom

    like Eddie Murphy dressed in white-face on the local bus (sorry if that cultural reference doesn't work for some of you guys). As soon as the French guy leaves the stuffy MB showroom in Munich, three of the "salesmen" pick up tubas and start playing some oompa-loompa, and the beer and sausages flow, and they hand the buyer a set of keys to a new car at half the advertised price

    :-)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM, which is launching patriotic ad campaign this weekend, expects new truck to be key to turnaround.

    Pardon my criticism, I realy DO want GM to succeed. Let's see.... patriotic advertising..... trucks to push the turnaround.... how original. Nothing has changed if that's their strategy.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    They perhaps the biggest flag wavers of them all. The sad part is the flag was made in China. :cry:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'd get me a lawyer and file a lawsuit. It's a guaranteed win for you pal. ;)

    Easy Money. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Perhaps, but it might work if they combine that with something new and original. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Rorr, went to my union meeting tonight and since you respect my job at Pantex, which I really do appreciate then in the next couple of weeks keep a keen eye on the show "Dateline" and also pay special attention to the Washington Post.
    (A little inside info ;)) You will be VERY interested, I promise. ;)

    Back on Topic:

    What's going to save GM, is the new business model we are beginning to see. General Motors, has alot of good product coming out this year and the following few years. I'm very excited. CUV's should be a big seller. The hybrid versions should offer the customer good mpg. CUV's offer lots of room like a minivan, but have the utility of a SUV. If Saturn Greenline can reach across to enough markets it should be a very hot seller. The new Trucks and SUV's have already received lots of good reviews and I'd consider them the new standard/benchmark in the full size segment. It appears the CUV's will eventually replace the midsize SUV's like the Trailblazer/Envoy, and for good reason ;) I'm still amazed that Ford isn't going to at least attempt to save the Explorer by offering a really good hybrid alternative. Perhaps the new CUV's will be the Explorer/Caravan of the late 2000's ? :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    62,

    I'd love to see the look on Ghosn, face when the GM and Ford merger came out. :D

    I bet it was priceless. Perhaps Slick is playing head games with Ol' Carlos. ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Of course Ford looked at all it's options when they are looking death in the face. Ford is in more trouble than GM is/was. I really doubt that there will be a GM/Ford hookup other than some shared projects (transmissions, etc.) Ford going bankrupt and staying in business would really hurt GM. they would get rid of their costs and GM would keep them. Now if Ford went out of business we could see a big uptick in GM sales. From domestics only buyers to a realization by some that this country is going to be in big trouble if we lose our automotive industry.

    Ghosn is starting to worry me. He is just to eager to have this alliance with GM or anybody else. This whole study was supposed to be completely quiet from both sides. No comments, etc. Ghosn is spouting out all kinds of stuff. Very strange. Is he a talker?
  • wideglidewideglide Member Posts: 146
    "Lucas electronics wrecked the British car industry."

    Back in the 80's, I used to have an MGB; the bumper sticker on the back read "Why do the English drink warm beer? They have Lucas refridgerators!"

    RE: Dinah Shore: Life is COMPLEATER????? :confuse:
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    1 in 87 americans over the age of 65 have their medical bills paid by GM (1.06 million folks with a cost of $5000/yr each)

    $1525 is the amount GM pays for Health care on every car built in the US. Chrysler pays $1400. Ford pays $1100.

    Transplants pay form $400 to $450.

    Toyota spends $345 million in the US on health care

    GM spends $5.3 Billlion in the US on health care and it is going up in the double digits every year.

    In Canada another story. GM spends $1385 for each worker in medical bills.

    Interesting tidbit. If averaged, all the medical cost in 2004 across the entire US population we each would pay $6100.

    I do not want to go into natinalized health care here!!!!!! Only discuss how GM has a huge disadvantage TODAY from the newly transplanted car makers.

    Warren Buffett says "GM is a health and benefits company with an auto company attached"
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >keep a keen eye on the show "Dateline"

    Can you give us a hint? If it's Dateline paying more businesses (Perverted Justice) to illegally act as local cops to entrap people who prey on youngins on the internet and show them arriving at the traphouse and showing the nonagressive perverts being thrown to the ground and roughed up by Cops program local wannabes, I won't be watching that program. This all occured here in Ohio in the Greenville area (very rural and backwards area IMHO).

    I hope it's a higher level of yellow journalism from Dateline. I also don't get to read the Washington Post.

    How 'bout a hint? Is it automotive-related?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    GM has a big disadvantage and they dug their own grave. Turning a higher profit per unit would help. They've shown that they can't do that by offering severely discounted inferior products so let's see how they do with world class products.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    plekto wrote: "I-6 engines can be made down to almost 2.0L in size and whomp on most 4s doing it. You don't need a 4L monster - you can get my with a small I6 and offer it as at least an upgrade to the pathetic GM 4s at no cost."

    Yes, the Brits used 2.0L (1998cc) I-6 engines, especially Triumph in the 2000 sedan, Vitesse, TR-250, TR-5, TR-6, and GT6. The 2.0L Triumph I-6 was an excellent engine, very, very smooth, economical, and long-lived. Plus, late model Triumphs used Delco electrics - also reliable.

    SAAB actually had a 1.4L I-6 in a prototype, but it was scrapped due to lack of performance vs. the 2.0L SOHC and DOHC I-4.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks for the heads up; I'll TRY to remember to catch the Dateline piece on Pantex (but a friendly reminder from my favorite Dumasian wouldn't hurt). ;)
This discussion has been closed.