There is talk of the LaCrosse getting the same engine as the Impala SS. If they combine this with an upgraded interior package, then perhaps this would make some sense. I think that this is an oversized engine of questionable value.
Japan has huge tarrifs on U.S. cars. Canada has them on Japanese cars. And it goes on and on - almost every country except the U.S. engages in massive amounts of protectionism of their industries.
Is it any wonder that we are being ground under and bought out?
It has marketing value if not engineering value. Some old timers that grew up on Detroit iron just won't buy anything that doesn't have an 8. That's what's kept the Crown Vic alive.
Can you give us a link describing just WHAT these tarrifs are?
Otherwise, you might as well be posting that UAW workers of Japanese decent are secretly on the payroll of Japan, Inc. and are purposely sabotaging GM/Ford cars on the assembly line.....
"Given Toyota's market capitalisation, far beyond that of GM, especially considering its second and third place status in many markets, shows just how undervalued GM stock truly is."
GM undervalued? GM's marketshare isn't everything. GM has huge debts (and interest expense is very high due to its junk debt rating). GM's marketshare is falling. GM is still in red. Future is at best uncertain. I will not buy this stock and the argument that the fair value of the stock is $55.
Can GM stock reach $55 in next year or two? Yes, it can. If the redesigned big pickups sell well and cost-benefits from employee buyout programs are realized, GM stock can go up. Some of the new products look promising. But competition continues to be fierce and my networth is probably less than 1 millionth of Kerkorian's - so, I'll not buy even if the stock reaches $10.
ASk anyone you know in Japan - it's the same everywhere. 50-100% more for items from outside Japan is common.
Of course, Japan also has a 10% tax on all new cars. There's also a yearly fee that's based upon displacement, so you get hit with a huge luxury tax for virtually every U.S. vehicle made(and a few Japanese as well). Lastly, you get hit with a weight surcharge for anything over 1 ton.
They're sneaky about it, but it costs a fortune to own a U.S. made car in Japan these days.
The same car sells for roughly $18-20K Euros in Germany, and that has a hefty VAT included as well.
Last example: Smart Car - the little base model one. 1,543,500 Yen base price
Check the price in the U.K. 6775 Pounds. times 1.86945(today's exchange rate) = $12665 Note that that also includes a hefty VAT of 17.5% Japan's isn't included in their listed price.
Check any non-Japan made car's price in Japan and the price elsewhere. So yes, tarrifs still do exist(one way or another it seems).
"Database of tarrifs around the world. It *appears* as if Japan no longer has a tarriff..."
It *appears* that way because.....they don't have a tariff.
Regarding the difference in price between a Cadillac DTS in the US vs. the price in Japan..... :confuse: Have you checked the price on luxury Japanese/European autos for sale in the U.S. vs. what they cost in THEIR home markets? You act like it's a one-way street.
"They're sneaky about it, but it costs a fortune to own a U.S. made car in Japan these days."
Maybe that's because U.S. automakers DON'T MAKE vehicles suitable for the mainstream Japanese market? Fees based on displacement? Yes, for good reason. What competitive vehicles does Detroit produce with under 2 liter displacement? Weight surcharges? Obviously a (successful) attempt to screw Detroit over.
Ask yourself - what are the big sellers IN JAPAN. Now ask yourself what vehicles do the Big 3 make IN THIS COUNTRY that are competitive in that market?
GM stock down 6% today ... York resigned from board and Kerkorian may sell his shares. I have been saying this all along - incompetent management doesn't want to change.
If you think that's bad, try importing a foreign-market vehicle into the United States. There's a reason the Ford Explorer has a better market penetration in Japan than the Nissan X-Trail has in the US. DOT and EPA regulations are tariffs by another name.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Any tariffs on American cars would run afoul of WTO rules. No matter what anybody says, the US has the most political clout at the WTO.
Why do BMW and MB have a fair amount of success in Japan and China and Taiwan and S. Korea, but Caddy and Lincoln have virtually no presence there? It's no because those countries put much higher tariffs on American cars than on German cars? It's because historically BMW and MB always regarded foreign markets anywhere as an integral part of their corporate strategy. Historically big 3 only thought in terms of USA, and Canada as an afterthought. If they thought of exports, they were thinking of those from their European operations. In Asia, you can buy an Opel, but not a Chevy. You can buy certainly a Ford, from Europe.
To set the record straight.....I'm not the one making that claim.
Good point re: BMW/MB. They've historically taken a global view whereas Ford/GM let their overseas subsidiaries handle the foreign markets, concentrating their American models on America (and on American tastes).
Which don't necessarily translate well to other markets. Personally, I think any 'trade barriers' (of whatever stripe) are NOT the real reason there is little presence of typical American models in foreign markets....
For Kerkorian to give up and have York resign from the GM Board seems to indicate that GM's inbred thinking may be still in place. And whatever you think that their prospects are going forward, the past speaks volumes: shrinking market share, bad labor relations, poor product planning, and all the rest. Ford went outside the industry to shake up their company (who knows how that will turn out) but GM is not about to do that. I wish them luck and success, but unless something really changes, they just be relegated to just another American company that "just didn't get it".
Here is a question asked of Jim Healey of USA Today. Looks like another segment that the Big 3 owned and lost to superior? foreign products.
"Q: Much has been written about the decline of minivans. With Ford switching to crossover utility vehicles (CUVs) to cover that base and GM possibly following, do you expect the minivan market will shrink, stabilize, or grow as genY moves into child-rearing years?
A: The guys bailing out are the guys not selling many, anyway. Meantime, foreign brand automakers seem to be selling all they can make. I figure it'll be a more-or-less static market, with evolving SUVs (crossover, mainly) continuing to siphon off potential van buyers."
I wouldn't give up on the Domestics in that segment yet.
Yes, Ford/GM seem to have bailed out (concentrating on crossovers instead), but DCX is still (obviously) a HUGE player in that segment, with an all-new version slated for next year as an '08 model.
>For Kerkorian to give up and have York resign from the GM Board seems to indicate that GM's
Or GM isn't going to let Kerkorian run the company for his financial benefit so he can split it, dump it, for his own benefit rather than the company and general shareholders. Remember how a lot of companies have been taken over and put out of business. How is TWA these days, Icahn.
Actually, one American car that should do well (IMO) in Japan would be the current Mustang.
I've always been under the impression (perhaps false) that the Japanese had a soft spot for American Muscle in a (relatively) inexpensive car. I'd also heard rumors that well-off Japanese like buying up well restored examples of vintage American muscle-car iron.
Are there any Japanese taxes based on vehicle width (in addition to the ones on engine displacement) that might keep Mustangs off of Japanese roads?
I have known 2 people that have had to have the transmissions replaced in or around the 70.000 mile mark and have had no help from GM. Taking care of the customer would help. Both of these persons had pickup trucks.
Are there any Japanese taxes based on vehicle width
Yep, that's one reason why many Japanese-market cars have those fender-mounted mirrors. The third-gen Camry was built narrower for the Japanese market to keep it within a tax bracket.
The largest of many factors that make big American cars a rarity in Japan is simply having someplace to park them. The Japanese car buyer has to have proof of parking space in order to buy a car, and parking space for large vehicles is rare enough to make it the province of the very wealthy. The Japanese vehicle market is very much specialized and unusual, and the US automakers have never made any serious effort to produce vehicles optimized for those conditions.
So in Japan, it boils down to something like no wider than 5 ft, not over 2.0L, not over 2000lbs, and not a truck to be price-competetive. Heh. That's basically a K-car or Honda Fit or simmilar. Everything else is slightly more expensive until you hit the top-end at 3.0L and 3000lbs.
Over that - they hit you with fees that essentially are tarrifs aimed at foriegn cars. As much as I hate it, yep - they are good at getting around the WTO buttheads. Here in the U.S., - well, we just ignore the WTO pretty much, so it works as well.
Oh - the biggest part obout importing a car to the U.S. isn't the retrofitting, which is pretty simple these days, but the fact that you have to crash-test two of them for that specific model and year. If you check the govt. sites, some people have done it with foriegn cars, most noteably just about every Porsche ever made.
"So in Japan, it boils down to something like no wider than 5 ft, not over 2.0L, not over 2000lbs, and not a truck to be price-competetive."
Well remember, Japan is a country with very dense urban areas, highly developed mass transit, and they are 100% dependent on foreign oil. All of which adds up to a climate NOT conducive to large cars.
But, it's not like this is a recent development. They've only been like that since the end of WWII.
How long does GM/Ford NEED to develop a vehicle that could compete in that market? After all, their industry had to start from scratch.
It' soooooo much easier to just complain that THEIR regulations aren't conducive to the type of cars/truck Americans like, therefore it's a 'closed' market. At what point will GM-apologists stop blaming the market for not accepting GM cars, but simply understand the market and build to it?
So in Japan, it boils down to something like no wider than 5 ft, not over 2.0L, not over 2000lbs, and not a truck to be price-competetive. Heh. That's basically a K-car or Honda Fit or simmilar. Everything else is slightly more expensive until you hit the top-end at 3.0L and 3000lbs.
Over that - they hit you with fees that essentially are tarrifs aimed at foriegn cars. As much as I hate it, yep - they are good at getting around the WTO buttheads. Here in the U.S., - well, we just ignore the WTO pretty much, so it works as well.
First, consider that Japan has almost half as many people as the US, in an area smaller than California. They have a major problem with parking in congested cities. They have no domestic oil supply. Gas costs are very high. They, unlike us, have a very coherent plan for energy conservation. Their regulations are aimed at conservation of energy and space, not to keep foreign cars out. There is nobody stopping Ford & GM from making cars that would appeal to their market.... Nobody except GM and Ford's board of directors, that is.
I had to replace everything (except the body and the light bulbs) before 70,000 miles in my Blazer. The Blazer had to be towed 10 times (once during first 45000 miles, 9 times between 45000 miles and 71400 miles, then I traded it in for a Honda CR-V). Transmission leaks were everyday affair. GM didn't care. Most of the time the reply was: "this failure is common for a car of this type". GM quality is getting better. But I am in no hurry to buy a GM.
G.M.is one of the hardest to get warranty work done. They look for any excuse so they don't have to fix it and now they are telling people to buy the new G.M. products with the 100,000 mile warranty. Well they can give you 200,000 mile warranty and if they won't help their customers any more then they have over the years, then it won't make any difference. Motors and transmissions are two of the most expensive parts to fix and the big 3 have really lost customers with their problems in this area. All manufactures have parts that fail, but the same manifold gasket and tranny problem doesn't go on for ten years at the owners expense and expect the customer to buy their product again. The big 3 better hope one of the Korean car companies don't build the pickup truck that they have been talking about or they will be in big trouble. Toyota has never hurt them because their vehicles are too expensive for a lot of people. If Hyundai builds a full size truck with the pricing and reliability that their cars have now, then it will sell.
Companies are run for the benefit of shareholders. Kirk is a shareholder, a big and a demanding shareholder. There's nothing wrong with Kirk trying to make GM more valuable.
Wagoner owns some stock too; however, he's more interested in his million dollar pay check, corporate jets and other perks and less in the small amount invested in the stock.
Incidentally, despite having higher fuel economy estimates(in case you thought the US Fuel consumption estimates were generous), a Honda Fit in Japan is *lucky* to hit *25* US MPG, if my reading of overseas forums are correct.
Wagoner doesn't get it. GM still doesn't get it. The world wants better built, more exciting affordable cars.
Kirk (the Jerk) realized that Wagoner doesn't want to change. If the status quo of making more big trucks and suvs that don't sell well in the world market persists, then obviously GM will have many tough years ahead.
I'm appalled that Wagoner would be so dismissive of Ghosn's ideas and offer to work together to pool resources. With Ghosn's turnaround expertise and aggressive cost cutting history, Ghosn would be an attractive replacement for Wagoner.
Their regulations are aimed at conservation of energy and space, not to keep foreign cars out. There is nobody stopping Ford & GM from making cars that would appeal to their market.... *** True, but the regulations are well known to have arisen at just the time that Japan dropped its official tarrifs. Like most everytihng in Japanese society, it's a paper-then excuse to keep foregn anything out as much as possible. Either it's restrictions that target U.S. sized cars or endless paperwork or sizing their cars so that they fit within a new rule that's suddenly .00005 inches smaller than the U.S. model or whetever else their brearucrats can come up with to nerf foriegn competition.
If you really want a lesson in apalling tarrifs, check out food and especially rice in Japan. Import fees are outrageous for food from the U.S. Same goes with musical instruments(just try to buy any Fender/Gibson/Carvin/etc in Japan for under $1000, even the cheap ones), alcohol... the list goes on and on. Japan is one of the most unfriendly places to do business in if you are trying to sell in Japan(as opposed to buying, then they are all too glad to bend into over backwards like some circus acrobat.
That the WTO told them to stop putting tarrifs on U.S. cars - well that didn't stop them at all AND it gave them extra money as they got to tax the wealthy people who bought all those large Lexus and Acuras.
Well, big trucks won't save GM. Toyota and Honda are ruling the minivan segment. Very soon Toyota will rule the pickup truck segment as well. The problem is with the attitude of GM. GM loses marketshare every year yet top-management claims success. No doubt the same management will claim success again despite losing the confidence of the biggest shareholder. I wish my friends working in GM and Delphi find better jobs.
Such restrictions like you mentioned on rice etc in Japan certainly hurt Japanese consumers, by reducing the real purchasing power of all Japanese. Not sure why we should cut our own nose off to spite them, so to speak.
Very soon Toyota will rule the pickup truck segment as well. Maybe sometime in the very distant future. I am working at a facility that is currently engaging in Thoroughbred & Quarter Horse racing. Come by and try to get near the back side. Count the number of foriegn vs. domestic trucks. You will find bunches of hayseeds driving the biggest Ford, Chevy GMC & Dodge trucks, almost exclusively duallys, and not a single Toyota or Nissan pickup to be found. The rednecks driving ordinary cars are almost always American makes. No one is going to make a living moving horses around using "full size" Toyo's or Nissans. I am in no way saying that Japanese brands are incapable of producing competent heavy duty trucks, but I don't believe that the people who actually depend on them will make the switch easily. Joe blow who drives a light duty 4X4 might be more easily swayed, since 99.9% of the time, he is only going back & forth to work in his truck.
You can’t tax or tariff your way toward equality. Remember Toyota typically charges more than gm for a car. Yet people still buy them over domestics and how do you apply a tariff to a Toyota car built in the USA? And why should the domestics be free of the tax if they build elsewhere? Frankly there days all I see out of the domestics is a lot of flag waving hoping the people of the USA don’t notice good old American companies closing plants in Detroit and building them in Canada and Mexico.
GM isn’t in Japan because they probably view Japan as a small and very specialized market and those sorts of markets are not the way to earning easy profits. Remember this is the company that went gung ho for SUV while loosing the car market year after year. The imports didn’t just get huge yesterday. It took years.
GM and the domestic’s problems began the moment the Japanese found a way to build the cars they didn’t think were easy profits. They build sub compacts and offered them to baby boomers that were just starting up in the world. They built cars that were appliances, (dependable, reliable, should last for years) while GM was stuck in a car as fashion symbol mode (cars as glitzy, not too expensive, disposable, out of fashion when the new models come out).
The world has changed and GM at best has been struggling to keep up with the changes. I see some good changes now, such as lowering the MSRP and extending the warranty. However if they had done those things at least ten years ago they would not be in the shape that they are in.
Well our problem is that we have virtually no tarrifs on anytihng in the U.S. Not that that's a bad thing. It's that nobody else is returning the favor and we're getting mauled in the foriegn debt department.
We play fair with Japan. They don't with us. So of course we should complain about their huge surcharge on U.S. grown rice. (plus Japan grown rice isn't as good to be honest. Heresy I know but just ask anyone over there. The quality of rice is pretty high in the U.S.
They are not a company that you should trust with your money, cause they are about ripping people off and giving money to the shady C.E.O. whether he does his job or not.
Someone needs to spend a little more time looking at SEC filings and a little less time reading nonsense postings in chat forums.
Given the size of the company they manage, GM's executives are decidedly in the lower bracket of compensation in the US and in the Auto industry.
I don't care what JD Power and Associates says either. They are somewhat of a sham cause they give awards based on INITIAL QUALITY. Initial Quality? What about long term quality? Everything works great when it's new. Apparently JD Power and Associates doesn't know this. Ridiculous.
Then why doesn't JD Power give the same initial ratings to all autos?
But thanks for being so wrong about this (and where the Cobalt is made as well ). Saves me a lot of time reading the rest of your posts.
Oh yeah, GM is set to announce it will be selling both the Holden Commadore and the Holdan Torrana as Pontiacs during the forthcoming Auto Show season. ______________________________
logic1, I may be wrong about some things, however I know I'm correct on the following points. I've never wasted my money on a shoddy General Motors vehicle, because as far as I'm concerned, that's all they know how to make from the ground up if it originates in the U.S.A.
I do know I'm correct to own a Toyota Camry and Toyota Corolla.... Wonderful cars that only require scheduled maintenance and don't accumulate silly repair problems such as having most of the hollow button controls on the instrument panel getting holes poked in them from repeated use. This happened with my friend's Pontiac Grand Am (among other horrors) and he vowed never to touch another General Motors car. He thanks me every so often for steering him towards the quality of Honda Cars. He's bought 2 or 3 Hondas since and loves them. And keep in mind he's not a person that has to do that much driving.
General Motors will never clean up their act. How do I know this? I just rented a Pontiac G6 and noticed the gaps in the seams along the window sill, the excessively wide roof pillars in the rear that block too much of your view throughout the rear. The excessive slant of the rear window, that furthers impedes rear view. The gear shift was not smooth and felt like it was made partially from plastic. The trunk lid had totally exposed axles with plastic sheaths. Considering the car's relatively small size, it also had excessive body lean and roll.What a joke.
GM still pays no attention to ergonomics, handling, customer feedback, and insists on keeping their build quality substandard when compared to the competition. How can you deny this? I KNOW this, because I just rented a 2007 Pontiac G6. So when I post on this blog, I'm not trying to talk out of my derriere. I'm speaking from experience
Read what Edmunds says about the 2007 Saturn Vue Hybrid, and then come back and talk to me. The problems they describe with this vehicle are inexcusable for a vehicle that is new.
I can't help it that your standards are substandard. They must be, if you like GM cars.
"So in Japan, it boils down to something like no wider than 5 ft, not over 2.0L, not over 2000lbs, and not a truck to be price-competetive."
Well remember, Japan is a country with very dense urban areas, highly developed mass transit, and they are 100% dependent on foreign oil. All of which adds up to a climate NOT conducive to large cars.
But, it's not like this is a recent development. They've only been like that since the end of WWII.
How long does GM/Ford NEED to develop a vehicle that could compete in that market? After all, their industry had to start from scratch.
It' soooooo much easier to just complain that THEIR regulations aren't conducive to the type of cars/truck Americans like, therefore it's a 'closed' market. At what point will GM-apologists stop blaming the market for not accepting GM cars, but simply understand the market and build to it? _________________________________
Plekto- One of the problems I've heard is that GM cannot build a small car in the U.S.A. and make any profit. Perhaps it wouuld cost them more to build the car than what they could sell it for?
So is it any wonder that they can't develop a car for densely populated society such as Japan? They can't even make many models of cars that sell well in their own country, how do you expect them to cater to a totally different market?
The Cadillac CTS sells at 60,000 per year? Correct me if I'm wrong. It would seem that as big as a corporation that GM is, the Cadillac CTS should be selling at about 250,000
G.M.is one of the hardest to get warranty work done. They look for any excuse so they don't have to fix it and now they are telling people to buy the new G.M. products with the 100,000 mile warranty. Well they can give you 200,000 mile warranty and if they won't help their customers any more then they have over the years, then it won't make any difference. Motors and transmissions are two of the most expensive parts to fix and the big 3 have really lost customers with their problems in this area. All manufactures have parts that fail, but the same manifold gasket and tranny problem doesn't go on for ten years at the owners expense and expect the customer to buy their product again. The big 3 better hope one of the Korean car companies don't build the pickup truck that they have been talking about or they will be in big trouble. Toyota has never hurt them because their vehicles are too expensive for a lot of people. If Hyundai builds a full size truck with the pricing and reliability that their cars have now, then it will sell. ___________________________________
Honey, you get what you pay for. Next time you buy a truck buy a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma instead and avoid the annoying hassles of General Motors. My friend Mindy had the brake manifold replaced 9 times on her Chevrolet Suburban. Remember, this is how General Motors makes their money; they sell a ton of replacement parts
G.M.is one of the hardest to get warranty work done. Honda is quite generous in this regard, they extended warranty on all 00 accords for seven years even when only a very small % reported transmission problems in that model year.
Is that an off-hand remark, or do you have proof? I find that ridiculous to believe, and even more ridiculous to say. Autoextremist are very neutral and constructive, and they will say what's good and what's bad. They owe nothing to GM or any other manufacturers.
A POV from Japan First, consider that 80% of the imports in Japan are German cars (mostly Merc and BMW). And they sell better than Lexus (introduced just last year by Toyota). So even though they cost more than domestics, there is a strong market for them. Second, the German imports are specially made for Japan (you can check from the chassis numbers they have - at least on BMW) - The cars are the same, but they go through a higher level of QA, and I suspect, have some better quality fittings.
So to blame everything on tarrifs does not explain everything. Japan is the second largest economy in the world, if they want to buy something, they can even if it comes at a higher price. Just ask the French / Italian luxury brands.
And, by the way, what GM needs to do is to spend more on production than paying workers to play cards in semi retirement.
If they are reading this article in WSJ, that is....
Toyota Has Multi-Year Plan to Elevate Capital SpendingBy NORIHIKO SHIROUZU October 7, 2006 12:45 a.m.
Toyota Motor Corp., to fuel sales expansion further around the world, Friday vowed to maintain an unprecedented pace of capital spending -- well more than $10 billion each year -- over the next several years, putting pressure on Detroit and other rivals already struggling to cope with challenges from the Japanese auto maker. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116019272621085847.html?mod=home_whats_news_asia-
Am I the only one who finds it strange that the whole 'tariff' issue gets thrown around like it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE that foreign governments have tariffs specifically against the Big 3......yet no one can provide any evidence about what these 'tariffs' are?
I'm not saying they don't exist - I just want to know WHAT they are and which countries have them?
BTW - did you call GM or a UAW steward?
GM, called back but I was at work (shows on my caller I.D.) So hopefully they will try again
Obviously your comment on me calling a UAW steward was trying to degrade my credibility. Plekto, has pointed out several links to back up what I've been saying. Regardless of who is actually right Japan, did tariff our car exports about a decade or so ago because I remember reading about it. I guess I could always ask Mises disciples for some real "credible" information like some posters in here obviously do.
Brother, I know this sounds crazy, but you aren't the only one who has some experience with cars of different manufacture. I would think everybody has owned a car they regret buying. For me it was a 96 Honda Civic. At about 40k miles, the car overheated while I was doing normal driving. The engine is made entirely of cheap aluminum that cannot handle heat. The block cracked. I found a used engine for $1500 installed. I've had 1 Nissan, 1 Dodge, 1 Pontiac, 1 Honda, 1 Acura, 1 BMW, 8 Fords (mostly trucks. Besides the Honda Civic, I would rate the Pontiac and the Acura as being the worst quality - wise. As a side note, I would say that the Acura (MDX) had the highest overall cost of ownership, once you figure it's price, fuel use, insurance, maintenance, cost to insure, and resale value. Here's another shocker : As far as engineering goes, I would rate the BMW as being the worst. Nice looking car, but thats the only thing that car has going for it. I would rate the highest overall quality vehicle I have had as being my 2004 F-150. No issues of any kind, and did exactly what it was supposed to do.
My point is, everybody has an opinion. You have yours and it's founded in your experiences. But when it comes down to it, everybody has an opinion and I assure you, yours is NOT by any means the definitive one.
I agree that you get what you pay for in some cases, but some people feel that for the difference in price between the Toyota's and G.M trucks they can do a lot of repairs if needed. Toyota has there problems, but not as often as some of the rest. General Motors makes money on repairs when the warranty isn't paying for them, because people don't buy the after market parts to replace the junk parts that they keep installing on the vehicle. My friend had brake problems on his Ford truck and when they wouldn't repair them under warranty, he went after market parts and hasn't had any problems since.
This has to be the most rediculous post I've ever seen. The Tundra has been around in one form or another since the early 90's. They had to change the name of the truck because of the "T-100s" poor reputation. The 2006 model that Toyota dealers are giving away now clearly reflect the styling of a pre-2004 Ford F-150, and mechanically, it is the same generation truck that the 2003 F-150 was. Heck, Chevrolet even beat Toyota to the market with a current generation truck. Ford, Dodge, and Nissan have been making modern trucks for a while now. Last week I read that Toyota set the world on fire with their truck sales. On page 2 of the article, you discover what that ment - they sold 15000 trucks in September, a 75% sales increase over prior year. That happened because of the tremendous incentives they have on the Tundra, clearing out the old model. If Ford or Chevy sold 15000 trucks in a month, I believe the headline would had something to do with them going out of business. The 2006 Tundra was the poorest choice on the market, save the 2006 Chevrolet/GMC. That 2007 model had better be a world beater.
Comments
Is it any wonder that we are being ground under and bought out?
WHAT ARE THEY?
Can you give us a link describing just WHAT these tarrifs are?
Otherwise, you might as well be posting that UAW workers of Japanese decent are secretly on the payroll of Japan, Inc. and are purposely sabotaging GM/Ford cars on the assembly line.....
GM undervalued? GM's marketshare isn't everything. GM has huge debts (and interest expense is very high due to its junk debt rating). GM's marketshare is falling. GM is still in red. Future is at best uncertain. I will not buy this stock and the argument that the fair value of the stock is $55.
Can GM stock reach $55 in next year or two? Yes, it can. If the redesigned big pickups sell well and cost-benefits from employee buyout programs are realized, GM stock can go up. Some of the new products look promising. But competition continues to be fierce and my networth is probably less than 1 millionth of Kerkorian's - so, I'll not buy even if the stock reaches $10.
Database of tarrifs around the world. It *appears* as if Japan no longer has a tarriff, though Canda and others still do. But let's look further.
http://www.cadillac.co.jp/lineup/dts/price.html
When all is said and done, that's the pre-registration tax price. 8.4million Yen. For a base DTS. Roughly 78,000 USD after exchange rates.
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/gallery.jsp?model=dts&year=2007
41,700. So, yes, there are a zillion hidden tarrifs in Japan, even though they proudly state that they have none.
ASk anyone you know in Japan - it's the same everywhere. 50-100% more for items from outside Japan is common.
Of course, Japan also has a 10% tax on all new cars. There's also a yearly fee that's based upon displacement, so you get hit with a huge luxury tax for virtually every U.S. vehicle made(and a few Japanese as well). Lastly, you get hit with a weight surcharge for anything over 1 ton.
They're sneaky about it, but it costs a fortune to own a U.S. made car in Japan these days.
Two more examples:
http://www.opel.co.jp/purchase/zafira.html
Note the out the door price of 3,177,200 Yen.
The same car sells for roughly $18-20K Euros in Germany, and that has a hefty VAT included as well.
Last example: Smart Car - the little base model one. 1,543,500 Yen base price
Check the price in the U.K. 6775 Pounds. times 1.86945(today's exchange rate) = $12665 Note that that also includes a hefty VAT of 17.5% Japan's isn't included in their listed price.
Check any non-Japan made car's price in Japan and the price elsewhere. So yes, tarrifs still do exist(one way or another it seems).
It *appears* that way because.....they don't have a tariff.
Regarding the difference in price between a Cadillac DTS in the US vs. the price in Japan..... :confuse: Have you checked the price on luxury Japanese/European autos for sale in the U.S. vs. what they cost in THEIR home markets? You act like it's a one-way street.
"They're sneaky about it, but it costs a fortune to own a U.S. made car in Japan these days."
Maybe that's because U.S. automakers DON'T MAKE vehicles suitable for the mainstream Japanese market? Fees based on displacement? Yes, for good reason. What competitive vehicles does Detroit produce with under 2 liter displacement? Weight surcharges? Obviously a (successful) attempt to screw Detroit over.
Ask yourself - what are the big sellers IN JAPAN. Now ask yourself what vehicles do the Big 3 make IN THIS COUNTRY that are competitive in that market?
I'm pretty sure that's not true. Any tariffs on American cars would run afoul of WTO rules. No matter what anybody says, the US has the most political clout at the WTO.
Why do BMW and MB have a fair amount of success in Japan and China and Taiwan and S. Korea, but Caddy and Lincoln have virtually no presence there? It's no because those countries put much higher tariffs on American cars than on German cars? It's because historically BMW and MB always regarded foreign markets anywhere as an integral part of their corporate strategy. Historically big 3 only thought in terms of USA, and Canada as an afterthought. If they thought of exports, they were thinking of those from their European operations. In Asia, you can buy an Opel, but not a Chevy. You can buy certainly a Ford, from Europe.
Good point re: BMW/MB. They've historically taken a global view whereas Ford/GM let their overseas subsidiaries handle the foreign markets, concentrating their American models on America (and on American tastes).
Which don't necessarily translate well to other markets. Personally, I think any 'trade barriers' (of whatever stripe) are NOT the real reason there is little presence of typical American models in foreign markets....
"Q: Much has been written about the decline of minivans. With Ford switching to crossover utility vehicles (CUVs) to cover that base and GM possibly following, do you expect the minivan market will shrink, stabilize, or grow as genY moves into child-rearing years?
A: The guys bailing out are the guys not selling many, anyway. Meantime, foreign brand automakers seem to be selling all they can make. I figure it'll be a more-or-less static market, with evolving SUVs (crossover, mainly) continuing to siphon off potential van buyers."
Yes, Ford/GM seem to have bailed out (concentrating on crossovers instead), but DCX is still (obviously) a HUGE player in that segment, with an all-new version slated for next year as an '08 model.
Or GM isn't going to let Kerkorian run the company for his financial benefit so he can split it, dump it, for his own benefit rather than the company and general shareholders. Remember how a lot of companies have been taken over and put out of business. How is TWA these days, Icahn.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've always been under the impression (perhaps false) that the Japanese had a soft spot for American Muscle in a (relatively) inexpensive car. I'd also heard rumors that well-off Japanese like buying up well restored examples of vintage American muscle-car iron.
Are there any Japanese taxes based on vehicle width (in addition to the ones on engine displacement) that might keep Mustangs off of Japanese roads?
Yep, that's one reason why many Japanese-market cars have those fender-mounted mirrors. The third-gen Camry was built narrower for the Japanese market to keep it within a tax bracket.
The largest of many factors that make big American cars a rarity in Japan is simply having someplace to park them. The Japanese car buyer has to have proof of parking space in order to buy a car, and parking space for large vehicles is rare enough to make it the province of the very wealthy. The Japanese vehicle market is very much specialized and unusual, and the US automakers have never made any serious effort to produce vehicles optimized for those conditions.
Kerkorian, York & GM
York Resignation Letter
Not 100% sure of the resignation letter, but USA Today got a hold of it somehow. So any questionability, aim it at them please
Over that - they hit you with fees that essentially are tarrifs aimed at foriegn cars. As much as I hate it, yep - they are good at getting around the WTO buttheads. Here in the U.S., - well, we just ignore the WTO pretty much, so it works as well.
Oh - the biggest part obout importing a car to the U.S. isn't the retrofitting, which is pretty simple these days, but the fact that you have to crash-test two of them for that specific model and year. If you check the govt. sites, some people have done it with foriegn cars, most noteably just about every Porsche ever made.
Well remember, Japan is a country with very dense urban areas, highly developed mass transit, and they are 100% dependent on foreign oil. All of which adds up to a climate NOT conducive to large cars.
But, it's not like this is a recent development. They've only been like that since the end of WWII.
How long does GM/Ford NEED to develop a vehicle that could compete in that market? After all, their industry had to start from scratch.
It' soooooo much easier to just complain that THEIR regulations aren't conducive to the type of cars/truck Americans like, therefore it's a 'closed' market. At what point will GM-apologists stop blaming the market for not accepting GM cars, but simply understand the market and build to it?
Over that - they hit you with fees that essentially are tarrifs aimed at foriegn cars. As much as I hate it, yep - they are good at getting around the WTO buttheads. Here in the U.S., - well, we just ignore the WTO pretty much, so it works as well.
First, consider that Japan has almost half as many people as the US, in an area smaller than California. They have a major problem with parking in congested cities. They have no domestic oil supply. Gas costs are very high. They, unlike us, have a very coherent plan for energy conservation. Their regulations are aimed at conservation of energy and space, not to keep foreign cars out. There is nobody stopping Ford & GM from making cars that would appeal to their market.... Nobody except GM and Ford's board of directors, that is.
Wagoner owns some stock too; however, he's more interested in his million dollar pay check, corporate jets and other perks and less in the small amount invested in the stock.
Imagine what a more fuel hungry car would consume
Kirk (the Jerk) realized that Wagoner doesn't want to change. If the status quo of making more big trucks and suvs that don't sell well in the world market persists, then obviously GM will have many tough years ahead.
I'm appalled that Wagoner would be so dismissive of Ghosn's ideas and offer to work together to pool resources. With Ghosn's turnaround expertise and aggressive cost cutting history, Ghosn would be an attractive replacement for Wagoner.
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True, but the regulations are well known to have arisen at just the time that Japan dropped its official tarrifs. Like most everytihng in Japanese society, it's a paper-then excuse to keep foregn anything out as much as possible. Either it's restrictions that target U.S. sized cars or endless paperwork or sizing their cars so that they fit within a new rule that's suddenly .00005 inches smaller than the U.S. model or whetever else their brearucrats can come up with to nerf foriegn competition.
If you really want a lesson in apalling tarrifs, check out food and especially rice in Japan. Import fees are outrageous for food from the U.S. Same goes with musical instruments(just try to buy any Fender/Gibson/Carvin/etc in Japan for under $1000, even the cheap ones), alcohol... the list goes on and on. Japan is one of the most unfriendly places to do business in if you are trying to sell in Japan(as opposed to buying, then they are all too glad to bend into over backwards like some circus acrobat.
That the WTO told them to stop putting tarrifs on U.S. cars - well that didn't stop them at all AND it gave them extra money as they got to tax the wealthy people who bought all those large Lexus and Acuras.
Maybe sometime in the very distant future. I am working at a facility that is currently engaging in Thoroughbred & Quarter Horse racing. Come by and try to get near the back side. Count the number of foriegn vs. domestic trucks.
You will find bunches of hayseeds driving the biggest Ford, Chevy GMC & Dodge trucks, almost exclusively duallys, and not a single Toyota or Nissan pickup to be found. The rednecks driving ordinary cars are almost always American makes.
No one is going to make a living moving horses around using "full size" Toyo's or Nissans.
I am in no way saying that Japanese brands are incapable of producing competent heavy duty trucks, but I don't believe that the people who actually depend on them will make the switch easily. Joe blow who drives a light duty 4X4 might be more easily swayed, since 99.9% of the time, he is only going back & forth to work in his truck.
GM isn’t in Japan because they probably view Japan as a small and very specialized market and those sorts of markets are not the way to earning easy profits. Remember this is the company that went gung ho for SUV while loosing the car market year after year. The imports didn’t just get huge yesterday. It took years.
GM and the domestic’s problems began the moment the Japanese found a way to build the cars they didn’t think were easy profits. They build sub compacts and offered them to baby boomers that were just starting up in the world. They built cars that were appliances, (dependable, reliable, should last for years) while GM was stuck in a car as fashion symbol mode (cars as glitzy, not too expensive, disposable, out of fashion when the new models come out).
The world has changed and GM at best has been struggling to keep up with the changes. I see some good changes now, such as lowering the MSRP and extending the warranty. However if they had done those things at least ten years ago they would not be in the shape that they are in.
We play fair with Japan. They don't with us. So of course we should complain about their huge surcharge on U.S. grown rice. (plus Japan grown rice isn't as good to be honest. Heresy I know
Someone needs to spend a little more time looking at SEC filings and a little less time reading nonsense postings in chat forums.
Given the size of the company they manage, GM's executives are decidedly in the lower bracket of compensation in the US and in the Auto industry.
I don't care what JD Power and Associates says either. They are somewhat of a sham cause they give awards based on INITIAL QUALITY. Initial Quality? What about long term quality? Everything works great when it's new. Apparently JD Power and Associates doesn't know this. Ridiculous.
Then why doesn't JD Power give the same initial ratings to all autos?
But thanks for being so wrong about this (and where the Cobalt is made as well ). Saves me a lot of time reading the rest of your posts.
Oh yeah, GM is set to announce it will be selling both the Holden Commadore and the Holdan Torrana as Pontiacs during the forthcoming Auto Show season.
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logic1, I may be wrong about some things, however I know I'm correct on the following points. I've never wasted my money on a shoddy General Motors vehicle, because as far as I'm concerned, that's all they know how to make from the ground up if it originates in the U.S.A.
I do know I'm correct to own a Toyota Camry and Toyota Corolla.... Wonderful cars that only require scheduled maintenance and don't accumulate silly repair problems such as having most of the hollow button controls on the instrument panel getting holes poked in them from repeated use. This happened with my friend's Pontiac Grand Am (among other horrors) and he vowed never to touch another General Motors car. He thanks me every so often for steering him towards the quality of Honda Cars. He's bought 2 or 3 Hondas since and loves them. And keep in mind he's not a person that has to do that much driving.
General Motors will never clean up their act. How do I know this? I just rented a Pontiac G6 and noticed the gaps in the seams along the window sill, the excessively wide roof pillars in the rear that block too much of your view throughout the rear. The excessive slant of the rear window, that furthers impedes rear view. The gear shift was not smooth and felt like it was made partially from plastic. The trunk lid had totally exposed axles with plastic sheaths. Considering the car's relatively small size, it also had excessive body lean and roll.What a joke.
GM still pays no attention to ergonomics, handling, customer feedback, and insists on keeping their build quality substandard when compared to the competition. How can you deny this? I KNOW this, because I just rented a 2007 Pontiac G6. So when I post on this blog, I'm not trying to talk out of my derriere. I'm speaking from experience
Read what Edmunds says about the 2007 Saturn Vue Hybrid, and then come back and talk to me. The problems they describe with this vehicle are inexcusable for a vehicle that is new.
I can't help it that your standards are substandard. They must be, if you like GM cars.
Well remember, Japan is a country with very dense urban areas, highly developed mass transit, and they are 100% dependent on foreign oil. All of which adds up to a climate NOT conducive to large cars.
But, it's not like this is a recent development. They've only been like that since the end of WWII.
How long does GM/Ford NEED to develop a vehicle that could compete in that market? After all, their industry had to start from scratch.
It' soooooo much easier to just complain that THEIR regulations aren't conducive to the type of cars/truck Americans like, therefore it's a 'closed' market. At what point will GM-apologists stop blaming the market for not accepting GM cars, but simply understand the market and build to it?
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Plekto-
One of the problems I've heard is that GM cannot build a small car in the U.S.A. and make any profit. Perhaps it wouuld cost them more to build the car than what they could sell it for?
So is it any wonder that they can't develop a car for densely populated society such as Japan? They can't even make many models of cars that sell well in their own country, how do you expect them to cater to a totally different market?
The Cadillac CTS sells at 60,000 per year? Correct me if I'm wrong. It would seem that as big as a corporation that GM is, the Cadillac CTS should be selling at about 250,000
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Honey, you get what you pay for. Next time you buy a truck buy a Toyota Tundra or Tacoma instead and avoid the annoying hassles of General Motors. My friend Mindy had the brake manifold replaced 9 times on her Chevrolet Suburban. Remember, this is how General Motors makes their money; they sell a ton of replacement parts
Honda is quite generous in this regard, they extended warranty on all 00 accords for seven years even when only a very small % reported transmission problems in that model year.
First, consider that 80% of the imports in Japan are German cars (mostly Merc and BMW). And they sell better than Lexus (introduced just last year by Toyota). So even though they cost more than domestics, there is a strong market for them.
Second, the German imports are specially made for Japan (you can check from the chassis numbers they have - at least on BMW) - The cars are the same, but they go through a higher level of QA, and I suspect, have some better quality fittings.
So to blame everything on tarrifs does not explain everything. Japan is the second largest economy in the world, if they want to buy something, they can even if it comes at a higher price. Just ask the French / Italian luxury brands.
If they are reading this article in WSJ, that is....
Toyota Has Multi-Year Plan to Elevate Capital SpendingBy NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
October 7, 2006 12:45 a.m.
Toyota Motor Corp., to fuel sales expansion further around the world, Friday vowed to maintain an unprecedented pace of capital spending -- well more than $10 billion each year -- over the next several years, putting pressure on Detroit and other rivals already struggling to cope with challenges from the Japanese auto maker.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116019272621085847.html?mod=home_whats_news_asia-
Rocky
I'm not saying they don't exist - I just want to know WHAT they are and which countries have them?
BTW - did you call GM or a UAW steward?
GM, called back but I was at work (shows on my caller I.D.)
So hopefully they will try again
Obviously your comment on me calling a UAW steward was trying to degrade my credibility.
Plekto, has pointed out several links to back up what I've been saying. Regardless of who is actually right Japan, did tariff our car exports about a decade or so ago because I remember reading about it. I guess I could always ask Mises disciples for some real "credible" information like some posters in here obviously do.
Rocky
My point is, everybody has an opinion. You have yours and it's founded in your experiences. But when it comes down to it, everybody has an opinion and I assure you, yours is NOT by any means the definitive one.