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Again, Nissan did not have much to offer and much to gain.
Question is what does Kekorian have to gain?
No matter what it is, BUY AMERICAN
Realistically,GM can’t survive by exploiting niches, primarily because in today’s fragmented market, there are precious few unexploited niches left. And depending on GM to succeed by doing better it than anyone else well, that’s a bit like Waiting for Godot. I Found this posted at www.The truth about cars.com
No matter what it is, BUY AMERICAN"
Umm. Many Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, etc are made in America by American workers using American parts.. So I did support America by purchasing my 06 Honda Odyssey which is built right here in the USA...
What GM and Ford need to do is make more competitive products. The American buyer is smart enough to buy the best product at the best price, Ford and GM just need to step-up and deliver. I dare you to show me a Ford or GM minivan that even comes close to a Honda Odyssey. In my case there was no choice. Honda/Toyota/Hyundai/Kia had the best minivans on the market when I bought last April.....
Okay.
Define "American Product". :confuse:
Built by Americans, or do you go JUST by the mailing address for the Corporate HQ? Or is your auto buying decision guided solely by the nice shiny chrome-plated plastic letters on the decklid?
Tell that to all the guys that are being bought out of their jobs. Tell that to their families. Tell that to everyone in Detroit where houses cannot be sold because there are no buyers and a whole lot for sale. Tell that to all the suppliers throughout the country who are going bankrupt.
Now I realize that the transplants are employing many new employees and are now purchasing parts from plants here in the US. Every American has the right to buy what they want and no one shall ever take away that right but please do not use the excuse that you are buying American and it does not hurt the country.
So gee i dunno, maybe supporting an american company that has been here the whole time seems like the patriotic thing to do. Their quality is 10 fold better than it used to be and really not that far off from the Japanese. We might live in a global market, but their is still such a thing as loyalty. You dont see Japan buying american cars in droves now do you.
So NO YOUR HONDA ISNT AMERICAN
Now I realize that the transplants are employing many new employees and are now purchasing parts from plants here in the US. Every American has the right to buy what they want and no one shall ever take away that right but please do not use the excuse that you are buying American and it does not hurt the country."
Look, I really do feel for the families that lost their jobs. Nobody wants that. I work in the the tech sector, and experience some of the same issues (outsourcing to places like India), but I have come to realize something. The way to prevent outsourcing is to bring the most competitive innovative products to the market. I for one think that GM and Ford have come along way in the past twenty years, but very few of their car lines meet or exceed the foreign competition. I own a Honda, which was built in the US, and a Mazda (whom is owned by Ford). As a hard working veteran who has fought for his country I believe it is my right to choose the best product with my hard earned dollars. I would have bought a Ford or GM minivan in a heartbeat if it was superior to Honda's in safety, comfort, features and reliability. I am not going to put my families safety in jeopardy just to support GM...
The reason why many folks are out of jobs in Detroit is because GM executive leadership failed them. The time to innovate is now. I, for one, am tired of hearing about GM and Fords next greatest plan to turn the company around. Just shut up and execute. They certainly have the money invested to deliver...
As for the profit, yes, the profit might go back to the home office in Japan, where it gets reinvested in the company. However, there's still profit to be made and jobs to be created from all of the American-built components that get put into that car. And since the American market is vastly different from the Japanese market, the chances are that many of the Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans we get here are designed in America, by Americans. I doubt, for example, that there is very much demand for something like a Nissan Altima, Titan, Armada, or Maxima outside of the United States. They're simply too big compared to the types of vehicles that most of the rest of the world goes for.
As for the Japanese market, they tend to go for smaller cars, and what the Big 2.5 make are, for the most part, simply too large to be viable over there. I think they put a major tax surcharge on anything over a certain width, so even something like an American Accord is really too big to sell in large numbers over there. Their version of the Accord is our Acura TSX. I think the Japanese might also tax vehicles by engine displacement. So regardless of whether something like an Impala might get 30 mpg on the highway while a Civic might get 40, the tax surcharge is going to be disproportionate.
Plus, remember they pay a lot more for gasoline over there than we do. And as a percentage of income, I'm sure an automobile is much more costly. More of a luxury item than it is here.
So NO YOUR HONDA ISNT AMERICAN
I don't disagree with you with regards to the fact that quality amongst GM and Ford vehicles has increased. But quality is not everything. The whole foundation of our economic system is built on capitalism and freedom of choice. The reason why Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc market share is increasing while GM/Ford/Chrysler market share is decreasing is due to the fact that their vehicles are not as appealing to American buyers. GM and Ford have every tool available to counter foreign car companies but they just cannot seem to get their act together. Why should I be loyal to a company that left me high and dry (1997 Saturn SC2) with a lemon vehicle and then I lost my shirt on resale value? Where was GM's loyalty to me the consumer when they failed to fix my vehicle per their own warranty standards? Where was GM when I my brand new car broke down and I got the run around?
and that is fine, I just am tired of hearing that the transplants are "American" and that is used as an excuse. They are not. They do hire some Americans but it is only a couple plants and a few engineering facilities. Nothing like what GM and Ford supports.
American Honda, for example, has had an auto manufacturing plant in OH far longer than 10 years (perhaps 20 to 25), and the Toyota plant in Georgetown, KY has also been in place for some time as well. These plants are not just recent additions.
It is most unfortunate that UAW workers are losing their jobs - I wholeheartedly agree - but don't blame it on the folks buying "the best product for the least amount of money." It's our economic system at work! At least, the UAW workers are getting an exceptional severance package - FAR better than most hourly or salaried employees in other private sector jobs. I know when I got layed off from my salaried job in 2001, I received nothing - not even a two week severance pay package. The only thing I had to fall back on for the interim was my savings.
It is the U.S. auto industry's executive management teams that have failed to bring the type of product people not only want, but demand. The problem is they simply don't listen; they claim that they do, but in reality, they don't. Otherwise, side curtain airbags, for example, would have been standard equipment across the board in all domestic vehicles by 2006 at the latest. I'm sorry, 2009 just won't cut it.
For specifically GM and Ford, it's time to stop promising, spinning, and blaming their competitors, and simply deliver or "put up or shut up."
Hummer was up 12%
Cadillac was up 18%
Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet were down about 12% each
Saturn up 4%
cars were down 10%, trucks down 4%
Buick cars were up 10%, trucks are way down
Cadillac cars up 9%
What really hurt Pontiac is Vibe sales
Overall GM sales down 7% but retail sales up slightly. The drop was due to rental fleet drop of 26% over last year (who says GM is not cutting fleet?)
Get rid of UAW
Use the money to do innovated research on gas efficient automobiles
Increase quality rather than quanity
Imagine how bad American cars would be, if it wasn't for the foreign competition. Ford and GM are only at the level they achieved because they are trying to catch up.
I read a review of the new Fusion today, and the review said it was worth considering if you were thinking of an Accord. It is similar in feel to an Accord, but it is a lot noisier as far as engine and wind noise even at slow speeds, and it has a huge turning radius. They didn't mention unknown reliability and big depreciation, or lack of airbags, but why buy a Fusion when you can go 1st class and get the real deal.....an Accord?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
ROFL :P
The issue is not foreign nameplates. The issue is more efficient producers competing with inefficient producers. If the newcomers can employ Americans and use less labor in the production of cars, then are we saying America should not become more efficient?
Efficiency happens in a competitive economy. Look at grocery stores (bar code scanners), airlines (Southwest), steel production (minimills), information delivery (email), and fast food (automated burger grillers, automated drink dispensers). All of these innovations allowed the same goods and services to be produced at a lower cost. If the newcomers are using more efficient methods then why are we, as Americans, resisting increased efficiency and competitiveness in our own economy?
Certainly Dell did that in the computer business and we aren't upset with them. Southwest has been eating the major airlines' lunch for a decade or so and while it has been disruptive to some, is that not a net gain for our economy? Should United Airlines be highly successful for being a high cost producer? Not unless increased value is also delivered. What about Bethlehem Steel? What about Compaq Computer? They're both gone because they didn't compete.
If GM and Ford had been focused on high quality products made efficiently then perhaps they wouldn't be suffering right now.
USA won't get ahead by whining about competition. If we want to be ostriches with our heads in the sand then Australia is supposed to be a nice place. :shades:
Loren
And that's the only reason the SX4 is slightly better. You can lock it manually into full-time mode and get around this nonsense.
The other 98% of the time - so what - 2WD mode all the time. When it starts raining, put it in automatic mode if you wish.
Lastly, the price of the AWD is a fallacy. I get the feeling that Suzuki would sell the thing with the same $15K price reguardlesss of whether it had AWD or not. Assuming that it would be $1000 or so less without it - well, nothing at all suggests that they would lower the price even one penny. As it is, it's a match for the competition in features and options, so it'd likely be 15K without AWD anyways.
If you can find a better car, buy it. America has some cars which may indeed be a good buy and worthy of being on a list of cars to research before buying. Could be one is right for you. Can't blame the competition however, if after careful study, the consumer buys a car which is not a Ford or GM. Heck, GM has been winning hearts with cars like the Corvette for years. They have though during the same decade lost customers with some crap along the way. If that Ford truck looks like a winner, or that Cadillac is a favorite on your list, then by all means, why not get the domestic.
But to look at it as supporting workers which made two to possibly more than five times a common workers wage, which are now retired -- I am not so sure all will agree. To be perfectly blunt, too many people which have made far less in wages will simply feel that those people should have saved money over the period of time in-which they made top dollar wages, and should not have to rely on retirements at all. It make no difference if this opinion is shared by those which are use to a higher wage scale. I am pretty sure it will be a majority view of those which were employed in the 50's thru 80's that the union works made far much more money. It will be a hard sell to those people to say that line workers have not been give a fair shake in life. This is an observation. Not looking for pro-union, or non-union debate here, but rather simply pointing out that a good lot of Americans, which made a lot less money over the years may indeed not see it necessary to support the former workers of GM and Ford. Look, we all know the good benefits of being in a Union, and how wages and work conditions got better and such. Hard to argue against anyone in life trying to get ahead and making a few extra bucks along the way. We all know the history of what may be the good side of Unions over the years, and troubles over time. Aside from taking any position pro or against the Unions, or if it is good or bad for American productivity, I am just saying a lot of people will look at this very much as they did the steel mill closing. They may not come out and say it, but in the back of their minds, they are thinking that gee those people made quite a lot of money in the mills, so where is that money now. So, I am thinking that the let's buy American to support the workers may be a harder sell. Of course lots of others along the way, all the the way down to the barber shops, and deli's will hurt as plants close. I think that pain is an easier sell. Just looking at this from a perspective of the people which may have made the half to a fifth of the wages and benefits. They buy cars too.
-Loren
Mr. Wagoner stopped him in his tracks, that is: MR. Ghosn from using the same tactics that William C. Durant used to build GM in the first place a century ago. Without the "control premium" any alliance with Nissan-Renault would have given it an effective control over GM, with roughly one third the voting stake. Not unlike VWAG and the Porsche/Piech Family today, and the Ford Family at the Blue Oval. Carlos would not even have had to sit on the board, he would have been the "grey eminance" behind the Kerkorian Throne. (Or become known as "Carlos the Jackal" to those not approving of his arrival at GM, or the alliance!!) Either way, alliance or no, GM stock is undervalued given the assets of the corporation and the market position it holds globally.
That's why KK is still in the game, and it will take a great deal to make him a "kuiet" player---if even remotely possible. KK bought into GM in part because it is one of the few auto firms not controlled by a family, or family interests---he can use his billions like chips on the table. One would wager given his high stakes gamble with Nissan, that his concern is not about cars and quality, nor stability of the workforce, but only his ROI, Return on Investment. He wants to make a few more billion before he must relinquish all his chips. GM stock should be selling around $55-65 a share. This pales in comparison to the $778 a share for Porsche stock. Or the market capitalisation of Toyota...many times more than that of GM, from a company that holds a smaller share of the market! KK should realise that kicking Wagoner out now would kill any chance he has of making his bet pay off.
A few more double digit gains by Toyota and Lexus should get their attention---and that of Bill Ford to boot. THEN, the wise men at GM might see they can fight fire with fire---and the "Toyota-Way" is not the only answer. After-all Mr. Eiji Toyoda was inspired by his tours of The Rouge, and GM factories in 1950...spurring the Toyoda Family, who started in a loom works, to improve upon what we had wrought. He had read Mr. Ford's 1931 book "Moving Forward", which today, is now a Toyota ad campaign! When Toyota Motors was founded in 1935/6 its first year of production was 100 cars, 916 trucks and 132 buses. In its best year before Pearl Harbor, Toyota would make 577 cars. During that time GM, Ford & Chrysler held 86.1% of the Japanese market, selling 36,810 vehicles against 5,089 "Japanese" built cars, trucks and buses! Nor should we forget that when Toyota "exported" its first TWO cars to America in 1957, GM held 51.4% of the U.S. market.
Today the U.S. market is three times the size it ws in 1957. GM is still Number One globally, the advance of Toyota can't be ignored. So GM's Opel Division has pressed itself to surpass Toyota---Mr. Damant of Opel saying so bluntly. The target has been marked and laid down. Mr. KerKorian needs to stay likewise abeam of the target area, lest he become a casualty of GM's inability to match the competition and beat it. Yes, he is a man that wants to be listened to, but that is what MR. York is for. He should sit tight...he can't buy into Toyota and give Mr. Watanabe headaches---especially if he wants his shares to reach "55".
DouglasR
(Sources: FT, WSJ, 'The Japanese Automobile Industry', Michael Cusumano, Harvard University Press, 1985; 'The Toyota Way, Jeffrey Liker, McGraw-Hill, 2004)
Is this too much to ask from the world's (still) largest automaker? whenever GM comes with a competent engine, others aim higher leaving GM in the dust. Check this out:
2007 Cadillac STS V6:
3.6 V6, 255 hp, 252 lb-ft, 18/27 mpg
2007 Lexus GS350:
3.5 V6, 303 hp, 276 lb-ft, 21/29 mpg
I think we will see a pretty big jump in profit from GM in the 3rd qtr. Issue will be if there are any one time charges.
The United States has duty taxes, too. Just about every country does, unless they have little to no naural resources and manufacturing capability, and rely totally on imports for everything. But don't confuse duty fees with tarrifs, which are basically punitive taxes meant to protect a nations domestic products. A few years ago, I bought a horsehide motorcycle jacket from Scotland - because it was virtually impossible to find a horsehide jacket made in the US, and they custom fit and customized it for me. I had to pay over $40 in duty taxes, before the post office would give it to me.
I've heard that Jeeps are popular in Japan, and sell fairly well there. Jeep even makes a right-hand-drive model for that (and probably others) market. When I lived out in the sticks in VA, my mailman special ordered one. Perfect vehicle for him, except that all the controls were in Japanese...
Was curious, do you know which model(s) helped Saab sales spike up 50% for the month?
Am guessing the H3 up spruce up the Hummer line?
With the water pump, it would be dumb to put the old one back on provided that they're going to do the new one for just the price of the part. Water pumps for most common cars usually still aren't that pricey. To put the old one back on and then have it go a short time later would be a mistake.
Given Toyota's market capitalisation, far beyond that of GM, especially considering its second and third place status in many markets, shows just how undervalued GM stock truly is. By demanding a "control premium" from Carlos-Ghosn, Mr. Wagoner has effectively checkmated N-R from "a leveraged buy-out of GM combined with MR. Kerkorian's shares. Such a move would have meant that MR. Ghosn would never have had to sit on the board at GM---Mr. York would have done that for him, making him the "Grey Eminance" at GM, (or "carlos the jackal" for those disproving of the allinace and N-R). Had GM allowed the alliance under the conditions set forth by Mr. Ghosn, it would have been no less a leveraged take-over tactic than that used by William C. Durant when he acquired many brands to form GM a century ago.
If anything a few more month-on 25% gains by Toyota should get the attention of Mr. Wagoner (and even Bill Ford to boot) and the "Wise Men" that run GM. We forget that when Toyoda founded his motorworks in 1935/6, after having successfully run a loom works, Toyota Motors made 100 cars, 916 Trucks, and 132 Buses. At the same time, GM, Ford, and Chrysler controlled 86.1% of the Japanese Auto Market, selling 36,810 cars, trucks, buses. "Japanese" manufacturers sold only 5,089 vehicles in 1935/6 In its best year before Pearl Harbor, Toyota Motors sold 577 cars! We forget that in 1957 when Toyota Motors exported its first TWO cars to America, GM had 51.4% of the market. Today the U.S. market is three times as large as it was in 1957, but the advance of Toyota can't be ignored.
While Eiji Toyota made a tour of The Rouge, and GM in 1950, among other American firms, he had also read Henry Ford's 1931 book "Moving Forward" which is now the title of a Toyota ad campaign! In short, Toyota was inspired by our own example, GM and Ford in particular. By the same token it is now GM-Opel's Mr. Damant that has proclaimed that Toyota is the target, and GM is moving to beat that target. "We are moving faster than they are..." Mr. Damant told the Financial Times. The Toyota Way is not the only way---their hubris will be their downfall. Mr. Kerkorian should step out of the way, lest he fall with GM's inability to make their mark. If he wants his shares to hit the magic "55", he should steer clear, in the words of George Washington, "of foreign entanglements."
We should not forget that worldwide, Toyota's health care cost per worker is $97, and in America it is $397---this versus $1,539 per vehicle in legacy and health care premium costs for GM. Imagine what equipment that difference buys...within each car. This is what Mr. Wagoner has to fight, without having to fight his board. KK's moves clearly show his interest is only on his ROI-return on investment, not quality of the cars made, firmness and stability of the workforce, or market-position of GM, but only where the shares and the dividends are trading. It will take a lot to keep him "Kuiet", but that is what he should do---he has MR. York to argue his position on the GM board even as he moves to increase his stake in GM at 12%, making him the largest shareholder behind State Street Global. Mr. Wagoner has shrewdly seen the true nature of the "alliance", and has chosen GM's interests against that of a single shareholder.
DouglasR
(Sources: FT, WSJ, 'The Japanese Automobile Industry', Michael Cusumano, Harvard University Press, 1995; 'The Toyota Way' Jeffrey Liker, McGraw Hill, 2004)
They are actually a lot cheaper over there. BMW has a "European delivery" program, where they fly you over, you pick up your car at the factory, stay and drive in Europe for a week, then drop it off at a port to be shipped to you in the US. What you save on the car pretty much pays for the trip. Would be a great vacation, if you have the means for a new Bimmer!
So NO YOUR HONDA ISNT AMERICAN
More "American" than a Chevy HHR or Buick Rendevous built in Mexico, don't you think???
I don't think Jaguar uses PLASTIC wood....
Every CEO has their fans and their detractors. Are you going to beleive AutoExtremist or your lieing eyes?
The media may be exagerrating a bit there in an attempt to knock him down a few steps from his pedestal.
I wasn't.
But it appears as though a fair number of Domestic supporters believe that other countries impose TARRIFS (ie. punitive taxes on imports to protect their own domestics) on Big 3 products, and I'm just looking for evidence that this is the case.
So far, the only concrete numbers I've seen were concerning Chinese tarrifs. And if the Chinese DO have tarrifs, then it certainly make sense for the US to have tarrifs on Chinese products.
I wasn't.
It wasn't you I was pointing this out to you, but rather to others who seem to think we need to institute protectionism again.
So far, the only concrete numbers I've seen were concerning Chinese tarrifs. And if the Chinese DO have tarrifs, then it certainly make sense for the US to have tarrifs on Chinese products.
Forget about ever buying anything at Walmart again! LOL
No kidding. Although the Chinese may drop their tarrifs as soon as the 'imports' (ie. GM) start producing large numbers of cars in China. Or not. I've never really gotten a good grasp on their thought processes.....