True, but the regulations are well known to have arisen at just the time that Japan dropped its official tarrifs.
Wha? The vehicle size and engine displacement tax brackets have been around in various forms since at least the 1950s if not earlier. (The "envelope" for the brackets has increased in steps over the years.)
Honda Fit in Japan is *lucky* to hit *25* US MPG, if my reading of overseas forums are correct.
Somebody hosed up the unit conversions. The 2002 JDM Fit with the 1.5L and CVT is rated at ~47 US mpg in the 10-15 test model (the AWD Fit gets ~42 mpg).
So in Japan, it boils down to something like no wider than 5 ft, not over 2.0L, not over 2000lbs, and not a truck to be price-competetive. Heh. That's basically a K-car or Honda Fit or simmilar.
Yep, and that's where the fat part of the Japanese vehicle market is. GM hasn't built anything that size in the US since 1987.
the biggest part obout importing a car to the U.S. isn't the retrofitting, which is pretty simple these days, but the fact that you have to crash-test two of them for that specific model and year.
Two for the front, two for the rear, two for the driver's side, and two for the passenger side. Rent out a certified crash-test facility and crash your eight cars. If any of those fail you get to hire some engineers to redesign the car, then crash another eight cars with the modifications your engineers suggested. Repeat until all eight tests pass, then modify and calibrate speedometers, add OBD-II for 1996+ models, and retune the engine and exhaust system to satisfy the EPA. Send all your paperwork off to the DOT and wait for official certification and US VIN data, then arrange with a registered importer to bring your cars through US customs and make the necessary modifications. $3-5 million should cover your costs. :sick:
It's true that the current Tundra is late 90's in powertrain execution but this actually is one of Toyota's annoying quirks/strengths. Sometimes they just take their own sweet time to go to the next level. Other times, such as with hybrid technology, they leap to the front and pull everyone along with them.
Trucks are a different subject. The clientele is for the most part deeply loyal. The current Tundra is a great vehicle for an initial step into this highly lucrative segment. For 7 yrs it has been better than any of the other 3 in the small V8 category. This market however demands a large V8 and a diesel. This next generation Tundra will be so far in advance of anything else on the road that the other 4 now will be left scrambling just to stay in 2nd place. The only thing the detroiters may have going for them is Loyalty.
'We know we can't match the Tundra for now, but stay Loyal and we probably can catch up at the next generation.' ( We hope )
All of that crash testing isn't required if it's jsut a model change, though. MOst of that testing just requires two cars. Of course, two Ferraris can cost a silly amount of course.
Then of course, you gotta rent the facility and so on. Almost anything will pass. You only need to get a score, any score. Then make it DOT approved. It's not as complicated as you posted. But it still requires 10K or so to do the tests, piles of paperwork, and of course, two sacrificial cars. 50K to import your favorite econobox, plus of course, a third econobox that you pay for to own... you can see why nobody but the wealthy do this.
I will tell you what it won't take to save GM. One Kirk Kerkorian acting like a small child who didn't get his way, making threatening gestures that only underscore his lack of confidence in GM as a company. Someone who feels that an unnecessary alliance is necessary to save a company Wagoner is doing a decent job of saving.
What it does take to save GM is Jerk Jerkorian remaining in the background where he belongs because he's the type of idiot that's made GM hostage to bad company choices.
Can't argue those points. I'm just saying that I don't believe that someone who needs a full size truck, and a heavy duty one at that, is going to even look at the Japanese offerings. At least, not at first. Like I said before, I don't doubt the ability of the Asians to build class leading big trucks, but I wonder if they will make it long enough to be accepted by heavy-duty truck users in this country. To be clear, I mean folks who really need massive towing & cargo capacity, not man-boys whose egos need massive vehicles to feel "normal".
There's alot of "talk" on this board about how lousy GM and all American makes are. I know very few people who own foreign makes, and I don't know anyone who isn't pretty happy with their car or truck.
While we have yet to see this all play out, I always assumed Kerkorian has a plan on making a few bucks on this deal. One could say he is in it for the ego, but I doubt that is the case. I must say, in your post you referred to him as an idiot. Interesting - first time I ever heard of that observation. Wish I was such an idiot to be a billionaire. Must come easy. As to if it is good for GM to have Kerkorian stirring things up at this point in time -- well, we'll see, ya could be right that it is an unnessary distraction. Ah, but then again, we are not on the inside. And you are assuming GM is healing at this moment in time.
What may be in the works some day is a National Health Care USA plan. Not only Kerkorian, but other money jumped into GM. I assume there is something else going on. The tremendous debt is not going away anytime soon. Bankruptcy would not be profitable for investors. There is a rest of this story we are not privy to, and it all plays out in time. I suppose China could be a profitable venture for GM. There must be something going on. I all looks the same to me at this time. Same ol' kinda tired looking old company, with a few sparks left like the Corvette and the Solstice/Sky. Yeah, some of the old stuff, like SUV / Truck lines keep chuggin along. Same ol', same ol' ! Considering Toyota sales were up 25%, and there is no panic with GM investors.... so far, then by gosh, there must be a rest of the story. If Kerkorian pulls money out however, it could be more like an end to a story. :surprise:
GM appears to be in a sort of limp along mode for a couple more years, or so. Are there any really new great looking cars to some out as 2009 or 2010 models, which they are banking on? There is the Camaro, which will be unique. Kinda fat, but unique. Then there are the Opels and Holdens, but they are kinda old already. Perhaps, if they make to 2009, some new cars come out of the skunk works? Now that would be the surprise. The one - two punch! Recycled cars, nahhhhhh. Something good, like the CTS or Solstice projects to get things stirring again, would be a revolution. -Loren
"Obviously your comment on me calling a UAW steward was trying to degrade my credibility."
Not at all; I was simply trying to figure out, if I was rocky WHO would I call? Specifically, just who at GM would you call to answer a question regarding Japanese tarrifs?
"Plekto, has pointed out several links to back up what I've been saying."
:confuse:
Huh? I've seen links, but still NO evidence that Japan has ANY tarrifs on U.S. built cars.
"Regardless of who is actually right Japan, did tariff our car exports about a decade or so ago because I remember reading about it."
Yeah, just like somebody can 'remember' reading in this thread just DAYS ago about 'current' Japanese tariffs on U.S. autos. I'm looking for EVIDENCE, not heresay. Show me.
All I'm saying is that various claims have been made regarding Japanese tariffs. And all I'm asking is for some folks to back up those claims.
"True, but the regulations are well known to have arisen at just the time that Japan dropped its official tarrifs."
Well known where? Amoung GM-aficionados looking for GM-excuses?
BTW - if you had no idea that there ARE no current official Japanese tarrifs, then you would have no idea of WHEN any (supposed) Japanese tariffs were dropped. And if you have no idea of when the (supposed) Japanese tariffs were dropped, then HOW is it 'well known' that the regulations arose at 'just the time the official tariffs were dropped'?
The current Tundra is a great vehicle for an initial step into this highly lucrative segment.
My brother-in-law would disagree with you. He bought one new two years ago, and has had nothing but trouble with it. Last time I talked to him, he said "Why the hell didn't I just buy a Ford or Chevy?!?"
My brother-in-law would disagree with you. He bought one new (TUNDRA)two years ago, and has had nothing but trouble with it. Last time I talked to him, he said "Why the hell didn't I just buy a Ford or Chevy?!?"
Well my brother in law bought GM trucks new every 3 years for all his life, and 2 years ago he bought a Tundra, and he said, "Why the hell did I buy a GM for all those years!?".
What it does take to save GM is Jerk Jerkorian remaining in the background where he belongs because he's the type of idiot that's made GM hostage to bad company choices.
Kerkorian is a "GENIUS". You don't make Billions, that was BILLIONS (in case you missed it) by being an idiot. He bought GM shares when no one wanted them and the price was low, and everyone thought they were going into bankrupcy. He buys in, the share price skyrockets because he leads everyone to believe there is hope and GM will make a comeback, and then he dumps his shares and gets out before the stock dives again. That is real "genius" at work. Why should he care about GM's bad choices and as far as acting like a small child, I'd do the same if I could make BILLIONS doing it! :P
Kerkorian is good at making money but from what I can tell, he's not as capable in handling the finer points of the auto industry. Those are two very different things as you know. It's been observed by a great deal of outside observers and even some insiders too, that this alliance would've benefitted Nissan-Renault than GM, leaving GM in the dust for a number of years - an amount of time they don't have on their side. If that weren't true, however, I'm sure that Wagoner would've happily agreed to the alliance.
Does that same explanation apply to tomatoes, oranges, beef, and others that they have blocked from their markets through the decades with restrictions on sizing, etc., or are they all just 'free trade' items too? I have heard too many stories about the difficulty of importing into Japan through the years to believe it's just the item you cited.
Oficially, there's no "tarrif", because that make waves and gets them in trouble. Unoficially, which is how 90% of Japan's government and society seems to operate towards foregners and foriegn products, it's a tarrif in practice - through sizing, quantities, weight, dimmesions, engine displacement, and literally anything else they can come up with to set forign cars apart from locally made ones. Then tax and put fees on the non-local products.
With a DTS selling for 75K base price, of course it has no competition. It has nothing to do with size, either. GM could sell the Aveo in Japan with another name and the Japanese would guaranteed find a way to set it apart and nerf it as much as possible.
The Japanese people are too smart to buy G.M. cars. Why would they buy G.M. products when they build more reliable vehicles in their own country to drive and when they break down, they don't have to wait for parts. Fuel is so expensive compared to ours, that they are going to buy the one's with the better mileage and that won't be G.M. The people over there don't have to find a reason to put G.M down so nobody will buy one. North Americans have been writing and telling each other about how bad, and what problems we have had with the big three for years. They have television, computers and can read all about the big 3's problems. So why would they buy G.M. when we are buying a higher percent of foreign cars then the big 3 put together almost. The Japanese cars, is why G.M. is in deep do-do. When the Civics, Datsun, Pony, first went on sale here, the big 3 laughed and so did most Americans, but not now. I guess G.M. wouldn't like the Japanese people laughing at their cars over there.
Nobody ever contested Japan's sense of nationalism. In fact, I don't recall anyone saying that it was a question that GM market share in Japan was growing. What an awfully irrelevant post.
Ah the Japanese do have an import car market. GM just isn’t smart enough to try to go for it. To be blunt things like weight, dimensions, and engine displacement are all very legitimate rules. We likewise have rules about what can and can not be put on our roads.
I think the Aveo could be sold in Japan, but GM has not taken the initiative to do so. GM is very driven by margins which frankly are not the way it should be doing business because chasing margins can lead you into a dead end. The problem of the sub compact is that it costs almost as much as a standard car but sells for less. This is way they went gung ho for SUVS, a product that took not much more labor than a car and sold for way more.
By the way I can think of a couple products made in the good ole USA that foreign governments would be very weary of. Different governments have different ideas of safety and environmental regulation.
Finally most Japanese cars produced today are probably made in the USA to avoid shipping and duty costs. And some of them are made in places other than Japan.
Does that same explanation apply to tomatoes, oranges, beef, and others that they have blocked from their markets through the decades with restrictions on sizing, etc., or are they all just 'free trade' items too? I have heard too many stories about the difficulty of importing into Japan through the years to believe it's just the item you cited.
Wait now... you're telling me they have restrictions on the size of tomatos and cows??? :confuse: I think you have been listening to too many stories.
Post some verifiable facts here, and not stories you've heard. I heard a story about Barbara Bush doing a whole football team - that didn't make it true.
Oficially, there's no "tarrif", because that make waves and gets them in trouble. Unoficially, which is how 90% of Japan's government and society seems to operate towards foregners and foriegn products, it's a tarrif in practice - through sizing, quantities, weight, dimmesions, engine displacement, and literally anything else they can come up with to set forign cars apart from locally made ones.
Tell me there is ANY reason why GM can not make a car that conforms to those regulations. Is there? Didn't think so. On the same logic you make, then the US is protecting our automakers from cars like the Smart, and other micro cars from Europe and Japan via our saftey regulations.
GM could sell the Aveo in Japan with another name and the Japanese would guaranteed find a way to set it apart and nerf it as much as possible.
It's a Korean Daewoo... I doubt you could sell it to the Japanese, who already have Honda, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. Daewoo cars don't have a very good track record (just look at the LeMans!). :sick:
As regrettable as some of the regulations are, how are those regulations any different from those of our own EPA and DOT? It's not as Subaru were selling the right-hand-drive highly polluting WRX straight from their own home market catalogue in the US.
So long as regulations apply to all players, it's the manufacturer's job to decide whether it has the confidence to make the necessary modifications to suit the target market's requirements. Many high performance car models are not sold in the US, due to safety, emission, and the high cost of certifying every engine-tranny combo.
Domestic vs. import brand ownership is very uneven across the country. The middle of the country mostly own domestics, and the two coasts are flooded with imports. The unfortunately fact for the domestic brands is that the two coasts have more money to spend on cars, and the middle of the country is experiencing some what of a population outflow . . . once the kids move out to the coastal cities, they pick up the local "bad" habit of buying/leasing imports.
No, No, brightness, us "middle of america" americans are idiots for liking or driving domestics, because they aren't as reliable as say a BMW. Oh I forgot also they don't have free maintence, or a 10 yr. 100K powertrain warranty like a hykia. They also don't have a 5 yr. 60K bumper to bumper warranty. I must not have a brain because I'm starting to really like what I see rolling off of the GM, assembly lines. :sick:
No, No, brightness, us "middle of america" americans are idiots for liking or driving domestics, because they aren't as reliable as say a BMW.
Rocky, some assumptions could be wrong. Initial quality study JD Powers 2006:
Based on both design quality and production quality considerations, the study finds that automakers can vary widely in their performance on these two components. Brands with the fewest defects and malfunctions include BMW, Chrysler, Hyundai, Lexus, Porsche and Toyota. Brands with the fewest design problems include GMC, Hyundai, Jaguar, Lexus, Nissan and Porsche.
Also, very important: “Without considering both quality factors, one might fail to recognize vehicles that are, in fact, excellent in certain ways,” said Ivers. “For example, BMW vehicles have among the fewest defects and malfunctions, along with Toyota. But BMW approaches controls and displays in a way that creates some problems for customers, leading to more design-related problems overall than Toyota incurs.
Also of interest: Hyundai ranks among the top three nameplates in the study for the first time in the history of IQS. Highlights include a top ranking for the Hyundai Tucson in the compact multi-activity vehicle (MAV) segment, and top-three segment performances for the redesigned Sonata and all-new Azera, as well as the Elantra and Tiburon
This part of your statement could be true: I must not have a brain because I'm starting to really like what I see rolling off of the GM, assembly lines (Just joking)
Actually, I think perceptions are important here. A lot of people have had problems with GM in the past, (and GM may have been arrogant because at one time there wasn't much choice) and so they were ready to go to more reliable foreign cars.
In the luxury market Lexus, BMW, MB have lead the way in engineering and left American manufacturers in the dust, so to speak. An owner of these cars looks at an American luxury car with some disdain. It will be hard for them to think of American luxury cars as "superior" unless they really ever are.
Similar in the economy field. Once people convert to foreign cars, and are satisfied, it is very difficult to go back.
It takes a strong record and it is very difficult if not impossible to win back customer trust.
IMO GM has some interesting cars coming out, but it really has to be "incredible" to win me back again.
Yep, the Japanese seem to 'out shrewd' us every time. We just don't get how to play the game. But, hey, it's only been 20 - 50? years. We'll figure it out. ;-) Right!
If by 'out shrewd' you mean reading the market and anticipating it's needs, than they've got our number. How dare they determine that a car the size of the Camry/Accord/Altima will be what is most in demand and then come out with cars that size. If GM and Ford want to do one size a little larger (Impala/500) and one size a little smaller (Malibu/500), they all should.
I think some of it is a small town versus city thing. I live in a small town and the nearest Toyota/Honda dealer is 60 miles away. Yet I have a Chevy/Ford dealer only 3 miles away. If my import were to break down it would have to be towed 60 miles to the dealership. Then I would have to make long distance calls to the dealership and drive there myself to argue with them about a loaner car. It's just an inconvenience to me when I can do everything locally with a domestic.
Bigtime differences between the East Coast/South Florida/West Coast and the rest of the country- and has nothing to do with smart or dumb. And the preferences are not just in cars, but in foods, technology, housing- lots of things. And living in a suburb of an East Coast city, I would surely agree that there is a 'snob factor' too, not just logic. Problem for the Big 2.5 is that the trends in buying usually start on the coasts too (I remember when small Japanes trucks were a California phenomenon...) and that does not auger well for Detroit. In my field of high tech, hardly anyone I know buys American makes (I was an exception with my wife's Ford Windstar)- can't be just logic, must be perception and emotion and image.
must be perception and emotion and image. For example, my runner car is a Pontiac Vibe(hence the name). Anyway, it's the Pontiac version of the Toyota Matrix wagon seems to be slow seller here. Meanwhile, the local Toyota dealer has a hard time keeping Matrix inventory on the lot. Same product different perception. GM went thru this same problem before with the re-baged Chevrolet Prizm.
So gee i dunno, maybe supporting an american company that has been here the whole time seems like the patriotic thing to do. Their quality is 10 fold better than it used to be and really not that far off from the Japanese. We might live in a global market, but their is still such a thing as loyalty. You dont see Japan buying american cars in droves now do you.
So NO YOUR HONDA ISNT AMERICAN
More "American" than a Chevy HHR or Buick Rendevous built in Mexico, don't you think???
No, last I looked Mexico and Canada are part of America.
Kerkorians stooge just quit the board and says GM is not doing what it should to stay in business yet he voted to not go ahead with the Ghosn alliance.
In September retail sales were flat and rental fleet sales are down 25% (even though someone here keeps saying that GM has not reduced fleet sales) while Toyota keeps increasing market share.
GMs overhead costs cuts have not really been implemented yet. GM has bought out many workers but most are still on the job. Few of the announced closing plants are closed yet. Job banks are still full of paid workers.
GM has had some hits like the Sostice/Sky that are still sold out but are low volume. The full size SUV's have been out awhile and while are not sold out with the expensive $3 gas(whoops now cheap $2.15) still sell in big, profitable volumes. There are huge incentives on the old large SUV's but they are about gone. The new pickups are not out yet and GM still does not have huge incentives on the old ones. The volume Impala, G6, Cobalt are also selling very strong w/o much in incentives.
GM made profits in the first half of this year if the one time charges are taken out.
SOOO, will GM make a small profit in the 3rd qtr or will they have a loss OR will they make a huge profit? Also is anyone aware of any large one time charges for the qtr? Looks like the GMAC one time + income will be in the 4rth qtr.
Boy, just 6 months ago most thought GM was going bankrupt. Were they wrong?
GM's most profitable market. will Toyota knock GM off the pedastel?
Toyota fears bigger Sequoia is, well, too big
LOS ANGELES -- Toyota's first-generation Sequoia was dinged for being smaller than other large SUVs. Now some Toyota executives fear that a much bigger Sequoia, which arrives next fall, swung too far the other way.
Sales of big SUVs are shrinking, and for more reasons than expensive gasoline. The bigger-is-better fad has passed, executives say. And the bigger Sequoia may arrive just as the party lets out.
"I worry about the Sequoia being too big and not having enough fuel economy, more than I do with the (redesigned) Tundra," said Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations at Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc.
A driver of a full-sized pickup "won't worry about getting two miles per gallon less, if it's the only thing that can haul his work gear," Esmond said. "But there are a lot of choices besides an SUV for hauling your kids to soccer practice."
The Sequoia is based on the Tundra platform, although it has a different frame and a shorter wheelbase and overall length. The redesigned 2007 Tundra has grown considerably, and Toyota insiders say the redesigned Sequoia will grow similarly.
Some Toyota managers, who declined to be identified, worry that the automaker overcompensated for the current Sequoia, which was seen as too small.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Slipping Sequoia Sales of the Toyota Sequoia SUV are on the wane for the 4th straight year. More unsettling, Toyota is worried that the redesigned 2008 model may be too large. 2006 (9 mos.) 25,373 2005 45,904 2004 58,114 2003 67,067 2002 70,187 Source: Automotive News Data Center
The problem for Toyota is that Sequoia production takes up a big chunk of its Princeton, Ind., factory, where Tundras also are made. But Toyota is preparing its San Antonio Tundra-only plant, anticipating more volume. If demand for the new Tundra falls short, the Sequoia must pick up the slack in Princeton.
If a fuel crunch hurts sales of both products, that could present a rare problem for Toyota: overcapacity. When that happens, either the factory is unprofitable, or the sales arm has to increase incentives to move the metal. For Toyota, neither option is acceptable.
Company officials declined to give specifics about the Sequoia's 2008-model redesign or its sales targets.
The 2007 Sequoia's base sticker price, including shipping, is $33,805. The V-8-powered truck gets 18 mpg on the highway and 15 in the city.
The large-SUV market, which floated in the 600,000-plus-unit range during its boom years, will decline to slightly more than 500,000 units this year, according to Toyota internal estimates.
Fading glamour
Toyota research shows that the "glamour aspect" of the large-SUV boom is waning, as those buyers move on to the next trend, says Ernest Bastien, vice president of Toyota's vehicle operations group.
"Single people didn't need full-sized SUVs, but they wanted them," Bastien says. "Hummer exploited that. For a while, the buyer mentality was that bigger is better. But economics have shown that, unless you really needed the vehicle, you may not really want to drive it."
In 2001 and 2002, Toyota had a 9.8 percent share of the combined large- and premium-SUV market from its Sequoia, Land Cruiser and Lexus LX 470.
But sales have slowed as its products have aged. Toyota's share has skidded to 6.4 percent so far this year. Through September, the entire segment's sales have fallen to 499,095 units, down from 598,534 units for the same period last year
Getting rid of GMC would be an enormous mistake. In the real world GMC has a "halo" effect for GM. Although their vehicles(and by the way they make more than just pick ups)are the same as Chevy the perception is very different. And anyone that knows anything about the auto industry knows that public perception means A LOT!And they do sell a lot of vehicles. IMO GMC should have a mini van. Then Pontiac and Buick can get rid of theirs as mini vans don't really fit with their image.Cadillac will soon drop the SRX(or SUX according to some owners)so GMC can truly be the step up for SUVs.I'm not suggesting they get rid of their work truck models. I work for the State and they buy a lot of GMC trucks. And that's sales for GM. And since GM finally pulled its head out of its [non-permissible content removed] and started to make GMC and Chevy actually look different sales have increased. That's why I bought a 3/4 ton GMC. I liked its looks.And finally GMC sells a crapload of medium duty trucks. Here in Mexifornia I see a lot more medium-duty trucks from GMC than I do from Chevy. :shades:
Every last person that I know or have talked to about trucks that does construction or simmilar trades(several family members, uncles, and so on are farmers or in various trades) - all of them mention that they wish Toyota made a full-size F150 type truck. They'd buy it in an instant.
The truth is that there's just no love for GM - it's ust that GM makes the least expensive work trucks and for many people, that's what it is all about - something to haul stuff around and beat the crud out of as a business expense.
Toyota needs to not be afraid - it'll work out fine.
This happened in Toyota's past as well - the original FJ sold incredibly well. As did their first small trucks. Every time they get into a new segment they blow the doors off of GM. GM got hurt so bad in fact, that they have all but stopped making small trucks. Ford, IIRC, still sells a good deal of its small trucks. Chrysler? Yeah - not seeing their small truck on the streets.(though people love the big Ram with the Cummins diesel. )
So go for it! More competition! More choices! Better reliability!
But the Japanese car never needs to be towed, and thus no problem It is good though when you do have a local dealership. One to say thirty miles is a good radius. OK, pushing distance perhaps if the car is really bad. :sick: -Loren
The Vibe started out as the same car as the Matrix with a bit more style and around a $1,500 extra price tag. That is one reason it got off on a wrong foot. And yes, the Pontiac resale value will be lower than the Toyota. -Loren
Still think bankruptcy is a 50/50 unless something else comes up, like national health care or something. Don't believe in the turn-around so far. Just my opinion. Could be that the ship has turned and I simply haven't seen it do so.
Did look at an Aura today, and it seems like a nice looking interior, and pleasant styled exterior. Very Accord like. And since it is a bit fresher, perhaps an advantage is noted in styling too. Base car is a V6, so that is a plus. Have not driven it. Just going by the looks, it may be competitive with the rest. Somewhat of a first for GM. A few sparks! Saturns near death experience was not good. Perhaps this is a turning point. A reskined G6 (better looking), with hydraulic steering, and good looking interior makes for a car which people may wish to test drive. Something like a Malibu is not exciting enough to even take a test run in. -Loren
GMC, should be the off-roaders "Bling" Luxury Truck/SUV brand. Skid plates and Z-71 for every model + Cadillac power. I really think there is a market for such an image. The Denali line is bold and I'd like to see GMC, be more upscale than Chevy especially in materials, technology. Cadillac's SUV's and Trucks, offer the perfect on-road manners. I've always liked GMC's grills better than Chevy, and now we are seeing them distinguish the brands even more. I'd personally like to see Chevy be the off-road work-truck and the GMC be pretty much a off-road luxury truck. "If that makes since" ?
And yes, I can tell. Wood is wood. Plastic is plastic
Then you do better than anyone else. I saw the results of a clinic where the folks were shown wood trim parts from different vehicles and also sample pieces. Parts from expensive vehicles and cheap vehicles. Parts from manufacturers all around the world.
Bottom line was that no one could tell which was which. People could just not tell the difference. Some of the real wood looked "fake" and some of the plastic wood looked "real" to different sets of observers.
A lot had to do with gloss levels. Some felt high gloss meant fake and some thought it was real. On low sheen samples it was the same thing.
So unless it is in the brochure no one will know for sure if it is real or fake. Now there is very bad fake wood out there so it is easier to tell but a reasonable source can do a good job and there are only a few manufacturers in the world doing the plastic wood trim for the auto OEM's so they all share.
Comments
Wha? The vehicle size and engine displacement tax brackets have been around in various forms since at least the 1950s if not earlier. (The "envelope" for the brackets has increased in steps over the years.)
Somebody hosed up the unit conversions. The 2002 JDM Fit with the 1.5L and CVT is rated at ~47 US mpg in the 10-15 test model (the AWD Fit gets ~42 mpg).
Yep, and that's where the fat part of the Japanese vehicle market is. GM hasn't built anything that size in the US since 1987.
the biggest part obout importing a car to the U.S. isn't the retrofitting, which is pretty simple these days, but the fact that you have to crash-test two of them for that specific model and year.
Two for the front, two for the rear, two for the driver's side, and two for the passenger side. Rent out a certified crash-test facility and crash your eight cars. If any of those fail you get to hire some engineers to redesign the car, then crash another eight cars with the modifications your engineers suggested. Repeat until all eight tests pass, then modify and calibrate speedometers, add OBD-II for 1996+ models, and retune the engine and exhaust system to satisfy the EPA. Send all your paperwork off to the DOT and wait for official certification and US VIN data, then arrange with a registered importer to bring your cars through US customs and make the necessary modifications. $3-5 million should cover your costs. :sick:
It's true that the current Tundra is late 90's in powertrain execution but this actually is one of Toyota's annoying quirks/strengths. Sometimes they just take their own sweet time to go to the next level. Other times, such as with hybrid technology, they leap to the front and pull everyone along with them.
Trucks are a different subject. The clientele is for the most part deeply loyal. The current Tundra is a great vehicle for an initial step into this highly lucrative segment. For 7 yrs it has been better than any of the other 3 in the small V8 category. This market however demands a large V8 and a diesel. This next generation Tundra will be so far in advance of anything else on the road that the other 4 now will be left scrambling just to stay in 2nd place. The only thing the detroiters may have going for them is Loyalty.
'We know we can't match the Tundra for now, but stay Loyal and we probably can catch up at the next generation.' ( We hope )
Then of course, you gotta rent the facility and so on. Almost anything will pass. You only need to get a score, any score. Then make it DOT approved. It's not as complicated as you posted. But it still requires 10K or so to do the tests, piles of paperwork, and of course, two sacrificial cars. 50K to import your favorite econobox, plus of course, a third econobox that you pay for to own... you can see why nobody but the wealthy do this.
10 years back Taurus was the top-selling car... and now? Minivans - Dodge/ Chrysler has almost lost the segment above $25K.
What it does take to save GM is Jerk Jerkorian remaining in the background where he belongs because he's the type of idiot that's made GM hostage to bad company choices.
Like I said before, I don't doubt the ability of the Asians to build class leading big trucks, but I wonder if they will make it long enough to be accepted by heavy-duty truck users in this country. To be clear, I mean folks who really need massive towing & cargo capacity, not man-boys whose egos need massive vehicles to feel "normal".
There's alot of "talk" on this board about how lousy GM and all American makes are. I know very few people who own foreign makes, and I don't know anyone who isn't pretty happy with their car or truck.
What may be in the works some day is a National Health Care USA plan. Not only Kerkorian, but other money jumped into GM. I assume there is something else going on. The tremendous debt is not going away anytime soon. Bankruptcy would not be profitable for investors. There is a rest of this story we are not privy to, and it all plays out in time. I suppose China could be a profitable venture for GM. There must be something going on. I all looks the same to me at this time. Same ol' kinda tired looking old company, with a few sparks left like the Corvette and the Solstice/Sky. Yeah, some of the old stuff, like SUV / Truck lines keep chuggin along. Same ol', same ol' ! Considering Toyota sales were up 25%, and there is no panic with GM investors.... so far, then by gosh, there must be a rest of the story.
If Kerkorian pulls money out however, it could be more like an end to a story. :surprise:
GM appears to be in a sort of limp along mode for a couple more years, or so. Are there any really new great looking cars to some out as 2009 or 2010 models, which they are banking on? There is the Camaro, which will be unique. Kinda fat, but unique. Then there are the Opels and Holdens, but they are kinda old already. Perhaps, if they make to 2009, some new cars come out of the skunk works?
Now that would be the surprise. The one - two punch! Recycled cars, nahhhhhh. Something good, like the CTS or Solstice projects to get things stirring again, would be a revolution. -Loren
Not at all; I was simply trying to figure out, if I was rocky WHO would I call? Specifically, just who at GM would you call to answer a question regarding Japanese tarrifs?
"Plekto, has pointed out several links to back up what I've been saying."
:confuse:
Huh? I've seen links, but still NO evidence that Japan has ANY tarrifs on U.S. built cars.
"Regardless of who is actually right Japan, did tariff our car exports about a decade or so ago because I remember reading about it."
Yeah, just like somebody can 'remember' reading in this thread just DAYS ago about 'current' Japanese tariffs on U.S. autos. I'm looking for EVIDENCE, not heresay. Show me.
All I'm saying is that various claims have been made regarding Japanese tariffs. And all I'm asking is for some folks to back up those claims.
BTW - go Tigers!
Well known where? Amoung GM-aficionados looking for GM-excuses?
BTW - if you had no idea that there ARE no current official Japanese tarrifs, then you would have no idea of WHEN any (supposed) Japanese tariffs were dropped. And if you have no idea of when the (supposed) Japanese tariffs were dropped, then HOW is it 'well known' that the regulations arose at 'just the time the official tariffs were dropped'?
My brother-in-law would disagree with you. He bought one new two years ago, and has had nothing but trouble with it. Last time I talked to him, he said "Why the hell didn't I just buy a Ford or Chevy?!?"
Well my brother in law bought GM trucks new every 3 years for all his life, and 2 years ago he bought a Tundra, and he said, "Why the hell did I buy a GM for all those years!?".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Kerkorian is a "GENIUS". You don't make Billions, that was BILLIONS (in case you missed it) by being an idiot.
He bought GM shares when no one wanted them and the price was low, and everyone thought they were going into bankrupcy. He buys in, the share price skyrockets because he leads everyone to believe there is hope and GM will make a comeback, and then he dumps his shares and gets out before the stock dives again. That is real "genius" at work.
Why should he care about GM's bad choices and as far as acting like a small child, I'd do the same if I could make BILLIONS doing it! :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
An old coworker of mine bought a new Blazer in 01 or 02 I think...absolute piece of crap. They now have a Highlander and couldn't be happier...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Oficially, there's no "tarrif", because that make waves and gets them in trouble. Unoficially, which is how 90% of Japan's government and society seems to operate towards foregners and foriegn products, it's a tarrif in practice - through sizing, quantities, weight, dimmesions, engine displacement, and literally anything else they can come up with to set forign cars apart from locally made ones. Then tax and put fees on the non-local products.
With a DTS selling for 75K base price, of course it has no competition. It has nothing to do with size, either. GM could sell the Aveo in Japan with another name and the Japanese would guaranteed find a way to set it apart and nerf it as much as possible.
I think the Aveo could be sold in Japan, but GM has not taken the initiative to do so. GM is very driven by margins which frankly are not the way it should be doing business because chasing margins can lead you into a dead end. The problem of the sub compact is that it costs almost as much as a standard car but sells for less. This is way they went gung ho for SUVS, a product that took not much more labor than a car and sold for way more.
By the way I can think of a couple products made in the good ole USA that foreign governments would be very weary of. Different governments have different ideas of safety and environmental regulation.
Finally most Japanese cars produced today are probably made in the USA to avoid shipping and duty costs. And some of them are made in places other than Japan.
Wait now... you're telling me they have restrictions on the size of tomatos and cows??? :confuse: I think you have been listening to too many stories.
Post some verifiable facts here, and not stories you've heard. I heard a story about Barbara Bush doing a whole football team - that didn't make it true.
Oficially, there's no "tarrif", because that make waves and gets them in trouble. Unoficially, which is how 90% of Japan's government and society seems to operate towards foregners and foriegn products, it's a tarrif in practice - through sizing, quantities, weight, dimmesions, engine displacement, and literally anything else they can come up with to set forign cars apart from locally made ones.
Tell me there is ANY reason why GM can not make a car that conforms to those regulations. Is there? Didn't think so. On the same logic you make, then the US is protecting our automakers from cars like the Smart, and other micro cars from Europe and Japan via our saftey regulations.
GM could sell the Aveo in Japan with another name and the Japanese would guaranteed find a way to set it apart and nerf it as much as possible.
It's a Korean Daewoo... I doubt you could sell it to the Japanese, who already have Honda, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. Daewoo cars don't have a very good track record (just look at the LeMans!). :sick:
So long as regulations apply to all players, it's the manufacturer's job to decide whether it has the confidence to make the necessary modifications to suit the target market's requirements. Many high performance car models are not sold in the US, due to safety, emission, and the high cost of certifying every engine-tranny combo.
Rocky
Rocky, some assumptions could be wrong. Initial quality study JD Powers 2006:
Based on both design quality and production quality considerations, the study finds that automakers can vary widely in their performance on these two components. Brands with the fewest defects and malfunctions include BMW, Chrysler, Hyundai, Lexus, Porsche and Toyota. Brands with the fewest design problems include GMC, Hyundai, Jaguar, Lexus, Nissan and Porsche.
Also, very important:
“Without considering both quality factors, one might fail to recognize vehicles that are, in fact, excellent in certain ways,” said Ivers. “For example, BMW vehicles have among the fewest defects and malfunctions, along with Toyota. But BMW approaches controls and displays in a way that creates some problems for customers, leading to more design-related problems overall than Toyota incurs.
Also of interest:
Hyundai ranks among the top three nameplates in the study for the first time in the history of IQS. Highlights include a top ranking for the Hyundai Tucson in the compact multi-activity vehicle (MAV) segment, and top-three segment performances for the redesigned Sonata and all-new Azera, as well as the Elantra and Tiburon
This part of your statement could be true:
I must not have a brain because I'm starting to really like what I see rolling off of the GM, assembly lines
(Just joking)
Actually, I think perceptions are important here. A lot of people have had problems with GM in the past, (and GM may have been arrogant because at one time there wasn't much choice) and so they were ready to go to more reliable foreign cars.
In the luxury market Lexus, BMW, MB have lead the way in engineering and left American manufacturers in the dust, so to speak. An owner of these cars looks at an American luxury car with some disdain. It will be hard for them to think of American luxury cars as "superior" unless they really ever are.
Similar in the economy field. Once people convert to foreign cars, and are satisfied, it is very difficult to go back.
It takes a strong record and it is very difficult if not impossible to win back customer trust.
IMO GM has some interesting cars coming out, but it really has to be "incredible" to win me back again.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
So NO YOUR HONDA ISNT AMERICAN
More "American" than a Chevy HHR or Buick Rendevous built in Mexico, don't you think???
No, last I looked Mexico and Canada are part of America.
I don't think Jaguar uses PLASTIC wood....
Who knows unless you read the advertisements. Nobody can tell.
Kerkorians stooge just quit the board and says GM is not doing what it should to stay in business yet he voted to not go ahead with the Ghosn alliance.
In September retail sales were flat and rental fleet sales are down 25% (even though someone here keeps saying that GM has not reduced fleet sales) while Toyota keeps increasing market share.
GMs overhead costs cuts have not really been implemented yet. GM has bought out many workers but most are still on the job. Few of the announced closing plants are closed yet. Job banks are still full of paid workers.
GM has had some hits like the Sostice/Sky that are still sold out but are low volume. The full size SUV's have been out awhile and while are not sold out with the expensive $3 gas(whoops now cheap $2.15) still sell in big, profitable volumes. There are huge incentives on the old large SUV's but they are about gone. The new pickups are not out yet and GM still does not have huge incentives on the old ones. The volume Impala, G6, Cobalt are also selling very strong w/o much in incentives.
GM made profits in the first half of this year if the one time charges are taken out.
SOOO, will GM make a small profit in the 3rd qtr or will they have a loss OR will they make a huge profit? Also is anyone aware of any large one time charges for the qtr? Looks like the GMAC one time + income will be in the 4rth qtr.
Boy, just 6 months ago most thought GM was going bankrupt. Were they wrong?
Toyota fears bigger Sequoia is, well, too big
LOS ANGELES -- Toyota's first-generation Sequoia was dinged for being smaller than other large SUVs. Now some Toyota executives fear that a much bigger Sequoia, which arrives next fall, swung too far the other way.
Sales of big SUVs are shrinking, and for more reasons than expensive gasoline. The bigger-is-better fad has passed, executives say. And the bigger Sequoia may arrive just as the party lets out.
"I worry about the Sequoia being too big and not having enough fuel economy, more than I do with the (redesigned) Tundra," said Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations at Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc.
A driver of a full-sized pickup "won't worry about getting two miles per gallon less, if it's the only thing that can haul his work gear," Esmond said. "But there are a lot of choices besides an SUV for hauling your kids to soccer practice."
The Sequoia is based on the Tundra platform, although it has a different frame and a shorter wheelbase and overall length. The redesigned 2007 Tundra has grown considerably, and Toyota insiders say the redesigned Sequoia will grow similarly.
Some Toyota managers, who declined to be identified, worry that the automaker overcompensated for the current Sequoia, which was seen as too small.
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Slipping Sequoia
Sales of the Toyota Sequoia SUV are on the wane for the 4th straight year. More unsettling, Toyota is worried that the redesigned 2008 model may be too large.
2006 (9 mos.) 25,373
2005 45,904
2004 58,114
2003 67,067
2002 70,187
Source: Automotive News Data Center
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Chunk of factory
The problem for Toyota is that Sequoia production takes up a big chunk of its Princeton, Ind., factory, where Tundras also are made. But Toyota is preparing its San Antonio Tundra-only plant, anticipating more volume. If demand for the new Tundra falls short, the Sequoia must pick up the slack in Princeton.
If a fuel crunch hurts sales of both products, that could present a rare problem for Toyota: overcapacity. When that happens, either the factory is unprofitable, or the sales arm has to increase incentives to move the metal. For Toyota, neither option is acceptable.
Company officials declined to give specifics about the Sequoia's 2008-model redesign or its sales targets.
The 2007 Sequoia's base sticker price, including shipping, is $33,805. The V-8-powered truck gets 18 mpg on the highway and 15 in the city.
The large-SUV market, which floated in the 600,000-plus-unit range during its boom years, will decline to slightly more than 500,000 units this year, according to Toyota internal estimates.
Fading glamour
Toyota research shows that the "glamour aspect" of the large-SUV boom is waning, as those buyers move on to the next trend, says Ernest Bastien, vice president of Toyota's vehicle operations group.
"Single people didn't need full-sized SUVs, but they wanted them," Bastien says. "Hummer exploited that. For a while, the buyer mentality was that bigger is better. But economics have shown that, unless you really needed the vehicle, you may not really want to drive it."
In 2001 and 2002, Toyota had a 9.8 percent share of the combined large- and premium-SUV market from its Sequoia, Land Cruiser and Lexus LX 470.
But sales have slowed as its products have aged. Toyota's share has skidded to 6.4 percent so far this year. Through September, the entire segment's sales have fallen to 499,095 units, down from 598,534 units for the same period last year
IMO GMC should have a mini van. Then Pontiac and Buick can get rid of theirs as mini vans don't really fit with their image.Cadillac will soon drop the SRX(or SUX according to some owners)so GMC can truly be the step up for SUVs.I'm not suggesting they get rid of their work truck models. I work for the State and they buy a lot of GMC trucks. And that's sales for GM.
And since GM finally pulled its head out of its [non-permissible content removed] and started to make GMC and Chevy actually look different sales have increased. That's why I bought a 3/4 ton GMC. I liked its looks.And finally GMC sells a crapload of medium duty trucks. Here in Mexifornia I see a lot more medium-duty trucks from GMC than I do from Chevy. :shades:
The truth is that there's just no love for GM - it's ust that GM makes the least expensive work trucks and for many people, that's what it is all about - something to haul stuff around and beat the crud out of as a business expense.
Toyota needs to not be afraid - it'll work out fine.
This happened in Toyota's past as well - the original FJ sold incredibly well. As did their first small trucks. Every time they get into a new segment they blow the doors off of GM. GM got hurt so bad in fact, that they have all but stopped making small trucks. Ford, IIRC, still sells a good deal of its small trucks. Chrysler? Yeah - not seeing their small truck on the streets.(though people love the big Ram with the Cummins diesel.
So go for it! More competition! More choices! Better reliability!
-Loren
-Loren
Did look at an Aura today, and it seems like a nice looking interior, and pleasant styled exterior. Very Accord like. And since it is a bit fresher, perhaps an advantage is noted in styling too. Base car is a V6, so that is a plus. Have not driven it. Just going by the looks, it may be competitive with the rest. Somewhat of a first for GM. A few sparks!
Saturns near death experience was not good. Perhaps this is a turning point. A reskined G6 (better looking), with hydraulic steering, and good looking interior makes for a car which people may wish to test drive. Something like a Malibu is not exciting enough to even take a test run in.
-Loren
Hmmm....then how come they're wanting to build that big fence dowb there?!?!
GMC, should be the off-roaders "Bling" Luxury Truck/SUV brand. Skid plates and Z-71 for every model + Cadillac power. I really think there is a market for such an image. The Denali line is bold and I'd like to see GMC, be more upscale than Chevy especially in materials, technology. Cadillac's SUV's and Trucks, offer the perfect on-road manners. I've always liked GMC's grills better than Chevy, and now we are seeing them distinguish the brands even more. I'd personally like to see Chevy be the off-road work-truck and the GMC be pretty much a off-road luxury truck. "If that makes since" ?
Rocky
Trivia "What does GMC, stand for" ?
I've written GM, a few months ago that I'd like to see a 2007' GMC 3/4 ton GMC Sierra Denali Duramax. Now wouldn't that make a helluva truck ?
Rocky
Then you do better than anyone else. I saw the results of a clinic where the folks were shown wood trim parts from different vehicles and also sample pieces. Parts from expensive vehicles and cheap vehicles. Parts from manufacturers all around the world.
Bottom line was that no one could tell which was which.
People could just not tell the difference. Some of the real wood looked "fake" and some of the plastic wood looked "real" to different sets of observers.
A lot had to do with gloss levels. Some felt high gloss meant fake and some thought it was real. On low sheen samples it was the same thing.
So unless it is in the brochure no one will know for sure if it is real or fake. Now there is very bad fake wood out there so it is easier to tell but a reasonable source can do a good job and there are only a few manufacturers in the world doing the plastic wood trim for the auto OEM's so they all share.