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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Toyota Motor Corp. is increasing its manufacturing footprint in the
    U.S., but it is the vehicles the automaker is exporting from Japan that are
    pumping up its bottom line.

    Rising exports have bolstered the automaker's profits because the
    relatively weak yen translates into fatter profits when customers pay in
    dollars. Yesterday, Toyota reported a 7.3 percent rise in net income for
    its fiscal third quarter, at a time when Detroit is trying to stanch red
    ink in North America.

    The maker of the Camry sedan and Lexus line of luxury cars has enjoyed
    consistently robust sales in markets like the U.S., as high fuel prices
    discourage motorists from buying big sport-utility vehicles, pickup trucks
    and other energy-inefficient cars. That has contributed to the rise in
    exports, Toyota officials said, because the company is set up to build many
    of its most fuel-efficient models in Japan.

    Its latest results underscore the balance Toyota is trying to strike as it
    seeks to head off political resistance in Washington. So far, the Bush
    administration has downplayed concerns about the yen, and lawmakers haven't
    moved much to help Detroit. But the Democratic-controlled Congress has made
    rumblings about the yen, and within the company Toyota executives have
    expressed concern about a potential political backlash as it continues
    taking market share from General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and
    DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler arm.

    But in 2006, the number of imported cars and trucks Toyota sold in the U.S.
    rose 37 percent to 1.2 million vehicles, according to the company.
    Meanwhile, North American production was largely unchanged. Overall, Toyota
    sold about 2.5 million cars and trucks in the U.S. last year.

    Analysts estimate the decline in the yen from its January 2005 level of 105
    to the dollar to yesterday's level of 120.12 to the dollar translates into
    about $3,000 in extra profit on each vehicle exported from Japan to the
    U.S.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    I am sorry, in MY book, you ain't a "realist", not by a long shot.

    It is really funny because all Toyota models that you mentioned selling well were intended to be the high volume models. Those which don't sell well were never intended to from the get-go (except the Tundra and GS).

    Also, you were mistaken about Scion not selling well. Last I checked the tC and xB are flying off the lot like hot cakes. xA on the other hand is somewhat a dissapointment.

    So out of all Toyota's models (that's including Scion and Lexus) the only dissapointment are: GS, Tundra and xA. And of course, in dissapointment I meant by "Toyota standard".
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    scion's three vehicle sold less than 10k vehicles last month if I'm not mistaken. You call that selling like hotcakes? what are you comparing the "success" of the scions to? The Corolla outsells the entire Scion brand by a long shot without the fancy marketing and dealer add on gimmicks. The tC sold only 4000 or so units last month so I dont know what you are talking about.

    So you are saying every Toyota product that doesnt sell well is intended to be low volume? That is hilarious and one of the lamest excuses I have heard. Can we apply that argument to GM's vehicles? what proof do you have that Toyota intended low sales for the mdoels I mentioned?

    So you are saying the GS is selling well by GM's standards? I think you should check the monthly sales vs the STS. Neither car is tearing up the charts and their monthly sales totals are very close. The GS is NOT a success by anyone's standards, not even GM's.

    The Land Cruiser, FJ, LX470, GX470, Sequoia, 4Runner, and Yaris are flying off lots?

    Anyone that says EVERTHING that company A is doing is right and EVERYTHING that company B is doing is wrong is unrealistic. That only applies to one of us. Toyota has many great qualities (mostly their ability to make money) and that is undeniable. You on the other hand have them on a pedastal while you view GM as the root of all evil. That is realistic to you? Toyota is a corporate entity that makes cars to make money. They have not done anything for me (or you I suspect) that has changed my life in any way. There are no Toyota plants in Philly so the fact that they have increasing share and make billions in profits doesnt really enhance my daily life. That said, I dont have any particular love or hate for them, they are just a company that makes lots of cars I dont really want.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    With improvement being the driver, costs gradually creep up until the product becomes too expensive. Then generally features are taken out until the price becomes acceptable to the market again.

    I think if you look at the history of the Mazda RX-7 you can see a good example of the Japanese pattern. The cars got more and more elaborate until they were too complex and too expensive."

    WOW! - I never looked at it that way before. That would also explain why the Honda Civic is now over $18,000 for the mid line, LX model. The Civic is now what the Accord was twenty years ago.


    Monzter -

    I think that this difference in design philosophy is going to have to change if GM is to have a chance in the market of the future....

    but I also think that it was a waste of time to bring it up here. No one wants to hear anything except:
    "The Japanese? Ha! They ain't so great!"

    But the design philosphy difference means that their cars will keep getting better and better while GM's will never get better than "As good as we have to be".

    Think about it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Last I checked the tC and xB are flying off the lot like hot cakes. xA on the other hand is somewhat a dissapointment

    I guess the expected volume is somewhat nebulous. tC sold less than 80K units last year up slightly from 2005. xB was 61k, up about 10%. They may be flying off the lots but they sure are not selling many. At the low price point they should be selling a lot more. I am sure there are reasons though why they are not selling well.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    You on the other hand have them on a pedastal while you view GM as the root of all evil. That is realistic to you?

    Yeah, 1487, still at it, doing the best to put words into other people's mouth. Too bad you can't do everything as well as that...
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The rentals companies have to buy cars from somewhere.

    IMO, they can buy them from the dealer like the rest of us.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Missed the G5. Huge market for sporty small coupe/sedan. Also the vibe will be around. Also the G6 coupe/hardtop convertible.

    G5 --> Solstice hatchback. I'd send whatever FWD Toyota replaces the Vibe back over to Chevy, and the G6 hardtop gets an upgrade and sent over to Buick.

    Also a vehicle above the Lucerne at Buick.

    Two RWD Buick sedans? Or does Rocky get his Velite?
  • montztermontzter Member Posts: 72
    You definitely hit the nail right square on the head, lokki.

    Does anyone else remember all of this happening to the "Big 3" thirty years ago? Remember the talk of the lousy quality and relying on cars with poor gas mileage? The end result back then was the same - lots of red ink and lost market share. They did improve in two areas - initial build quality and rust resistance.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >"I love how people base the car they buy on growing (or shrinking) market share and profitability."

    You entirely missed the point - market share shrinking is the result of people opting to buy other brands


    Do you think there might be more car companies than there were 20, 15, 10 years ago competing for the same market?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    as with so many people here you are out of touch with today's GM vehicles. I mean it's like you are making statements as if the rest of us havent seen the G8, '08 CTS, '08 Malibu, Acadia/Enclave, etc. If we were having this conversation 5 years ago maybe you would be making sense. In 2007 you are off target though. when you look at the G8 or CTS do you HONESTLY see a half [non-permissible content removed] effort that is ""As good as we have to be"?

    Do you really, truly see no improvement in GM's interior design, exterior design, powetrain, etc? BTW, I would like you to give us an objective comparison between the recently introduced Acadia and the soon to be introduced Highlander. I would like you to name any area where the Acadia is lacking compared to the '08 Highlander. These products show where GM and Toyota stand in terms of new product capability. GM launched a vehicle and Toyota's competitor isnt leaps and bounds better, its just competitive with the GM offering. I dont know what GM engineers were smoking when they created the Acadia or what processes they followed, but it seems to be they did a pretty good job and created a vehicle that can go toe to toe with the impeccably engineered 2008 highlander. Do you disagree? if so, show me the cost cutting and the poor engineerind. Show me the 20th century engine and transmission. Show me the lack of features. Show me how this vehicle was designed to be better than old GM models but nothing more.

    "I think that this difference in design philosophy is going to have to change if GM is to have a chance in the market of the future.... "

    wake up, this is already happening. As 62vette said, this started about 5 years ago and the results are just beginning to show.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    People disagree on "domestics vs imports".

    Unfortunately, that's not the topic of discussion here, so let's steer away from the personal edge and trying to "prove" something mode that has taken hold here (again)

    Just because someone disagrees with your opinion about the state of GM, that does not make the posting of that opinion a personal attack.

    Let's stop acting as if it does.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Assembly in Moraine. I saw a sign that said, ;) "Just make them as good as they need to be to get by." Grin... Sure. :):blush:;);)

    And I bet if I get to take a Camry tour at Georgetown in the next few weeks they'll have signs that say "Make them better than everybody else." That's why they're having a level of problems that I've referred to as regression to the mean with transmissions/engine tuning/software, whatever, and the rattles mentioned. ;) :confuse:

    The reality is GM has changed. I was really amazed at the effort for flawless quality in the assembly. I even had to wear a protector over my ring in case I might accidentally touch a car and scratch it. Robots are wonderful and they don't have legacy retirement and healthcare plans.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    G5 is a small 4 seater coupe with performance. Solstice is a 2 seater. Lots of demand for the G5 already even if it is only a stop gap Cobalt. Guess the Vibe could be dropped with the right G5 coupe.

    do not know what the 4th Buick is. Something more expensive than Lucerne and not a Park Avenue.

    There should be a market for a peerformance mid size convertible as also there should be one on the luxury side. No Chevy or Saturn though.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    "...show me the cost cutting and the poor engineerind" (sic)

    A long sad sigh - I really didn't want to do this.....

    SATURN SKY- Edmunds Review

    ENGINEERING
    GM apparently tinkered with a few other things in the suspension that it didn't disclose. Our tester surprisingly rubbed its rear wheels on the fender liners during launch at the track — a major engineering failure.

    Braking — 4-wheel discs with ABS — isn't anywhere near the standards of the Miata. At the track, the Sky stopped from 60 mph in 134 feet, substantially worse than the Miata's 117-foot mark.

    DRIVE TRAIN
    Push the Sky toward its limits, however, and it starts to show some weaknesses. This first comes through in the transmission, where our 5-speed manual (there is an optional 5-speed automatic available) stifles performance-minded desires with tricky gates, syrupy acceleration and a shifter that bobs and weaves like a prizefighter.

    INTERIOR
    The 2007 Saturn Sky has a ways to go until it catches the competition. It's not the easiest car in the world to live with. And at times — like when trying to recline the seats, which requires exiting the car; or stowing a drink behind you (in an auxiliary cupholder that accidentally pops out when you bump it with your elbow during shifts)it can feel like the Sky is working against you.

    SATURN AURA - Edmunds Review

    ENGINEERING
    The front-wheel-drive Aura is the latest offspring from GM's "global midsize architecture." Formerly known as Epsilon, this platform has spawned the Chevy Malibu, Pontiac G6 and Saab 9-3. We've not been blown away by those players, but the Aura nevertheless manages to stand out from its mates despite a healthy dose of shared DNA.

    DRIVE TRAIN
    Judging by the transmission's reluctance to downshift from high gear, GM is already trying to squeeze as much fuel economy out of the XE's pushrod V6 as possible. The four-speed transmission is not the best match for the relatively low-revving base V6, and the pairing isn't exactly a paragon of powertrain refinement. At the very least, GM should finally put the four-speed auto out to pasture.

    INTERIOR

    It's not all sweetness and light, though. Quite literally — Saturn's fancy new LED instrument cluster was flakey on our test car, at times refusing to display any of the gauges until several minutes after startup. More attention to detail in the cabin would go a long way, too. For example, the ragged headliner edge in the rear and castanet-clackity PRNDL lever dimmed the Aura's aura and the corporate parts-bin steering wheel is on the large side.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    A 42 page report was publicized where Toyota is concerned about costs rising faster than their profits!!! Fancy that, labor costs, etc., and they need to trim. They had $900,000,000 and want to trim $300,000,000. Their profits were $1.X billion. I couldn't catch all the data in the story.

    GM has walked a tightrope on costs rising. Perhaps that schadenfreude will come to GM as cost-cutting efforts evoke more catch22s like current Toyota quality/engineering problems. Having an older, more experienced workforce may start catching up with other companies.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    GM sure doesn't mean good mileage. They should call themselves PM for vehicles with poor mileage.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Oh wait... you're going to complain because I didn't use the comparison YOU chose:

    "BTW, I would like you to give us an objective comparison between the recently introduced Acadia and the soon to be introduced Highlander. I would like you to name any area where the Acadia is lacking compared to the '08 Highlander"

    Okayyyyy:

    1. Edmunds only lists First Drive impressions for an Arcadia and a hybrid Highlander.... but since we're talking about comparing engineering philsophies... that's OK.

    2. You're going to tell me that the Arcadia has a plusher interior than the Highlander.... but the Arcadia needs to pick on someone it's own price there..... Edmunds compares it to the Acura MDX and the Mazda CX-9...

    Let's talk about which shows a cost cutting good enough approach vs. which shows an philosophy of improvement after reading these quotes, shall we?
    Arcadia:

    That image starts with a torquey, variable-valve 3.6-liter V6 engine that's standard across its two Acadia trim levels — SLE and SLT. Power is a healthy 275 horsepower and 251 pound-feet of torque, with that torque peak occurring at a readily accessible 3,200 rpm. It doesn't exactly make the 4,900-pound vehicle feel sprightly, and high-rpm refinement isn't quite class-leading, but this engine does motivate the Acadia with authority — assuming the transmission cooperates.

    Really revolutionary ahead of the class... right.

    Now the Highlander

    This car is all about putting planet-saving, fuel-sipping technology in a useful and affordable package. On that count, the Highlander Hybrid is successful. Thanks, in part, to its unremarkable styling and interior versatility, this hybrid could move the family car and the average car buyer well into the 21st century as painlessly as possible.

    Now, tell me again about the future
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Don't forget that many of the models folks mentioned that were discontinued in the States lived on in other countries (Supra, MR2, Celica, Previa). They were just deemed not suitable for American sale due to low consumer interest or yen exchange rates.

    Toyota caps the fleet sales of Corolla and Camry at 16%, which I'm sure it will continue to do. Historically, Camry has run right at this cap for a number of years, while Corolla has run in the 8-12% range usually. This would give Toyota an overall fleet sales rate of somewhere around 10-12%, I would imagine. I doubt we will see that rise much.

    What we will almost certainly see is Chrysler, then Hyundai/Kia fill the void created by GM and Ford pulling out of the rental business. And if Hyundai and Kia manage to gain a stronger foothold in retail sales (something that has happened only falteringly so far), the Chinese will be right behind them, I am sure.

    FWIW, I drove the Cobalt on half-hour test drives a couple of times last year or the year before. I would have said (and DID say, right here at Edmunds) it was every bit the car that the Corolla was, but they were two sides of a coin - if you want the power, go with the Cobalt, if you want the fuel economy, go with the Corolla.
    At the time I thought the last-gen Civic was still a half step better (more refined powertrain than either of the others, sportier chassis even in the LX, still too many hard-touch plastics, but they were slightly better quality than either the Chevy or the Toyota).

    The marketwide perception of GM is what it is. People seem to agree that for right or wrong, for fair or unfair, it is biased against GM. If so, rather than picking apart individuals' anecdotes here at Edmunds, we should be brainstorming what GM could do to proactively reverse this. Some have posted that 20 years of badness has necessarily engendered 40 years of GM's rep being in the dirt, but I think that shows a certain lack of creativity. I think that if GM were to release repair rates or something, they could demonstrate that their cars are every bit as reliable and durable as the Japanese competition. Since the Detroit show this year, they have gotten their moxie back as far as claiming technological superiority, and I think that is a fair claim in many areas, starting with the Volt. They should be trumpeting that from every television, not talking about "this is our America, this is our truck" and stuff like that. Patriotic Chevy commercials are the same old, same old, and they will not win the hearts of the Japanese-brand buyers, most of whom are shopping ToyHon for resale, supposed reliability and durability, and perhaps safety and value as well. Appeal to those sensibilities, GM, and thou shalt regain much lost ground (saith Me! :-P)!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    1487: BTW, they arent really selling a lot less cars, they just have been unable to grow their sales in proportion with the overall market. GM's best year was 1979 and their second best was 2006 or 2005 overall.

    No, in the United States, GM's SALES have declined, too. Not just market share. We've been through this before...
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    1487: as with so many people here you are out of touch with today's GM vehicles.

    Sorry, but lots of us are familiar with GM's vehicles...and the vehicles from the competition, too. So we can make a sophisticated comparison, based on "realistic" experience.

    My parents are loyal GM owners (1999 Park Avenue, 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada), and I've just spent two days at the auto shows in Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., which gave me a chance to compare GM's offerings to the competition. So I know EXACTLY where GM stands in relation to the competition.

    It's getting better, but there is still LOTS of work to do.

    1487: I mean it's like you are making statements as if the rest of us havent seen the G8, '08 CTS, '08 Malibu, Acadia/Enclave, etc.

    We have seen them at various auto shows (the new Malibu, Enclave, Acadia and Outlook were at the Philadelphia Auto Show). But they are not available for sale as of yet, so for the average customer they are irrelevant. When they walk into their local GM dealership today, in February 2007, those vehicles (except for the Acadia) are not for sale. Plus, no one has actually tested the Enclave, new Malibu or revamped CTS.

    1487: Do you really, truly see no improvement in GM's interior design, exterior design, powetrain, etc?

    Sure...just not enough in too many cases. The new Cobalt, for example, is a huge improvement over the Cavalier. It is still inferior to the Civic. The competition isn't exactly standing still.

    1487: BTW, I would like you to give us an objective comparison between the recently introduced Acadia and the soon to be introduced Highlander. I would like you to name any area where the Acadia is lacking compared to the '08 Highlander. These products show where GM and Toyota stand in terms of new product capability. GM launched a vehicle and Toyota's competitor isnt leaps and bounds better, its just competitive with the GM offering. I dont know what GM engineers were smoking when they created the Acadia or what processes they followed, but it seems to be they did a pretty good job and created a vehicle that can go toe to toe with the impeccably engineered 2008 highlander. Do you disagree?

    A 2007 Highlander Sport with V-6, three rows of seats, leather, entertainment system, sunroof and AWD stickers for $35,698, according to Edmunds.com. That's the top-of-the-line model.

    The 2008 model may be more expensive, but not THAT much more expensive. Toyota can't afford to abandon its former customers by moving too far upscale.

    The two GMC Acadia SLTs with AWD and comparable features stickered for over $43,000 at the Philadelphia Auto Show. That is roughly an $8,000 difference, which is still considerable in this price range.

    So I would hope that the Acadia matches the Highlander, which is apparently considerably less expensive.

    Oh, and in regards to our earlier conversation:

    I checked the interior of the 2007 Equinox and compared it to the interior of the 2007 RAV-4. The Equinox is far inferior to the RAV-4 in this area. I stand by my initial observations.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I go away for day and see all these posts. And I thought everyone was going bananas over all the new GM product being shown at the Chicago auto show.

    Wrong! We've got the same alley fight going on, with the host having to step in again.

    I still don't get why individual "woe is me" posts from the Camry problems board get pasted into this GM board. Also, why are articles from outside sources being posted in their entirety? I just skip over these, usually having seen them elsewhere.

    Maybe more enlightened reading tomorrow?
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    My kudos to bumpy, sls, lokki, nippon, and the Aussie dude for hanging in there and making me laugh now and then!

    {Who'd a thunk "guards" were fenders?)
  • approximantapproximant Member Posts: 5
    another question of domestic vs. import..

    doesn't make a difference to me, although it'd be nice if there wasn't a difference.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Let me explain something to you. People like you seem to assume that "everyone" has domestic failure stories and its an accepted fact that every domestic car produced before 2004 or so was an unreliable piece of crap and any import problems are rare and most likely exaggerated. It is beyond naive to imply that people who had problems with imports are really the ones at fault and not the vehicles.

    There's some truth to this. But honestly, anybody can cite cases of import disaster vs. domestic disaster. And they're both right, because no make has a perfect record. But the statistical fact remains that the market share of domestics was very high, and more people have moved to non-domestic nameplates than have come the other way. And most people like to have brand loyalty. So I'd say that (again statistically), more domestic owners have been burned than import owners (percentage-wise). And the most logical hypothesis, proven out by many surveys, is that the cars in the '80s and '90s were worse if they were domestics.

    So you take the contention that today's GM cars are much better, and I would tend to believe that. I agree with many posters that the changes in GM I've seen over the last year have been on the better end of what I thought was possible. That's very impressive on many fronts. And GM should be commended and should stay the course. But is it also logical that when people are burned on their biggest purchase (except maybe their home) that they shy away from any disasters they've had. So if more domestic buyers experienced junk trouble, it is a perfectly logical situation for them to stay away if they are currently satisfied with their import rides.

    So all of the belly aching about who is being fair and logical is just random bits of entropy migrating to the Edmund's web site. The real question is - what can GM (and Ford) do to dislodge the apparent high proportion of satisfied import nameplate buyers from their brands and have them try GM again? That is the challenge they are facing, and it's not going to be easy. While GM is on the right path, it would have been a lot easier not to have made so many mistakes in the first place.

    I may sometimes "bash" GM, but I'm on this board because I want to see an American nameplate I'm proud of, and frankly I've been very embarrassed by many of the cars that the domestics put out. In my own silly way I'm hoping that the fact that a board like this is a way that GM can see the thoughts of much of the public, and then react to it by addressing many of the comments that we are making. And so far they appear to be doing that!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Sorry, but a rental test drive doesnt cut it with me.

    That's great for you, but what about the hundred thousand drivers who might form an opinion of a make based upon that rental?
  • derrado1derrado1 Member Posts: 194
    I have never, ever called it a roobar. Must be a rural thing. But then I get derided for saying "vacation" and "sidewalk" and some other "American-isms" occasionally. Of course, I don't use American spelling or units of measurement, though. ;)
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    How many domestic cars from the last decade to you know about that needed engines rebuilt after 24k miles? How many in recent years have had tranny rebuilt? I dont know of any and my parents car has over 90k miles thus far

    Well, in 1995 my brother bought the first year Ford Windstar. Tranny and engine failures under 60K miles, a well known set of problems in this model. We bought a 1994 Mecury Villager at the same time. We're still driving it with no major work and 219,000 miles. Oh - but it has a Nissan engine and transmission.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    As I said about touring the GM assembly plant for SUVs, it was a revelation. I didn't see anyone not working. The body language of those on the line was good. There was one person on break at the small, workgroup table, microwave, refrigerator, bulletin board, lockers scattered throughout the plant. They get 2 ten-minute breaks an a 20-minute lunch break, IIRC from the guide who had retired from that plant (and the Fridgidaire plant) where he worked.

    Your statement is a revelation -- that we've become so soft as Americans and we are amazed when a workforce has a good attitude and actually works pretty hard.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Toyota Motor Corp. is increasing its manufacturing footprint in the
    U.S., but it is the vehicles the automaker is exporting from Japan that are
    pumping up its bottom line.

    Rising exports have bolstered the automaker's profits because the
    relatively weak yen translates into fatter profits when customers pay in
    dollars. Yesterday, Toyota reported a 7.3 percent rise in net income for
    its fiscal third quarter, at a time when Detroit is trying to stanch red
    ink in North America.

    The maker of the Camry sedan and Lexus line of luxury cars has enjoyed
    consistently robust sales in markets like the U.S., as high fuel prices
    discourage motorists from buying big sport-utility vehicles, pickup trucks
    and other energy-inefficient cars. That has contributed to the rise in
    exports, Toyota officials said, because the company is set up to build many
    of its most fuel-efficient models in Japan.

    Its latest results underscore the balance Toyota is trying to strike as it
    seeks to head off political resistance in Washington. So far, the Bush
    administration has downplayed concerns about the yen, and lawmakers haven't
    moved much to help Detroit. But the Democratic-controlled Congress has made
    rumblings about the yen, and within the company Toyota executives have
    expressed concern about a potential political backlash as it continues
    taking market share from General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and
    DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler arm.

    But in 2006, the number of imported cars and trucks Toyota sold in the U.S.
    rose 37 percent to 1.2 million vehicles, according to the company.
    Meanwhile, North American production was largely unchanged. Overall, Toyota
    sold about 2.5 million cars and trucks in the U.S. last year.

    Analysts estimate the decline in the yen from its January 2005 level of 105
    to the dollar to yesterday's level of 120.12 to the dollar translates into
    about $3,000 in extra profit on each vehicle exported from Japan to the U.S.


    62' I was playing hoops with some co-workers in a company league about 6 hours ago. I've been away for what 7 or 8 hours and I saw 86 posts on this thread.

    I was well maybe people are talking about "OUR" different views of Buick :D Well that obviously isn't the case is it. :P

    We obviously disagree about Buick's potential or where it should or could be. I believe Buick, can be a cheaper Lexus but give us most of the Lexus luxury for less. I really don't care if my buick can park its self but if it can give me the craftsmenship, most of the useful gadgets like found in the 08' CTS that I will actually use, and expected buick horsepower and ride comfort, we could have a strong foothold in the Luxury market.

    62, you know I really respect your views pal. You add so much to these forums and I will openly say I appreciate ya. ;) I think where you and I differ is you think Buick, can't over lap Cadillac in price. You have very good valid reasons to justify that position. I happen to disagree with you because I believe buick, has the "potential" to move upscale into the market place without hurting Cadillac, and I've given IMHO very good reasons why it can be done.

    Buick, should be Lexus like in comfort. They can have models in the $30K range with cars like the LaCrosse. They need to move the LaCrosse up market with not just a price hike but rather a finished product that can reflect that price increase. This would help further distinguish Buick, and Saturn IMHO. The LaCrosse, needs to be a Lexus ES 350 fighter. It needs to have all the luxury features of the ES350, a long with a fit and finish that it will be added to a Lexus buyers list. The ES350 is a $30 something thousand dollar car and can reach into the $40's.

    The Lucerne, IMHO needs to move RWD, offer a "Ultra" V8 with Lexus LS horsepower (380-400hp) and be priced in the $40's-low $50's with a "Big Body" Benz size. It needs a Lexus LS ride/handling feel. Buick needs to be Lexus, but without the Lexus price tag and gadgets nobody needs. ;)

    The Buick Enclave, should get either a Denali V8 or get a Twin Turbo 3.6 making 350-400 hp. w/ AWD. Buick needs to bring back those lil' Wooden tables, rear center console, dual flip LCD screens from the concept. The Enclave along with other gadget improvements along with a hybrid option could be a high $40K CUV. It needs to be at least as luxurious as the Denali Acadia but be more conservative and plush. This needs to go after Lexus RX 330's Lincoln MKX's, etc.

    The other important vehicle for the Buick: The Buick Velite, needs to be built on it's concepts Zeta platform and be Buick's halo car. This car like all buick's could have Tiger Woods Editions but this car needs to be special. It needs the concepts Twin Turbo 3.6 "High Feature" V-6 making 400-450 horsepower. It needs to have Delphi's Magneride "MRC", It also needs the chrome F-1 inspired paddle shifters, a long with a sophisticated navigation system preferrably with voice recognition technology borrowed from cadillac. It also needs a powerful Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound Ssystem (perhaps a Bose ?), a long with Ventilated (AC) seats, perhaps swivel headlamps, and the latest safety technology they probably could borrow from Saab's new 9-3 Convertible fixing to come out. The is car could easily start in the high $40K range and top out in the low-mid $50's. It would directly under cut the old and tired Lexus SC430 and probably conquest some 4-seater Volvo C-70 and Mercedes Benz Convertible sales.

    I think I have valid reasons for buick, to go upmarket with the revitalization of Saturn, and soon Pontiac. Buick, needs to move upmarket or die. I'd prefer they go up market and be softer and something different than Cadillac. Cadillac, had a lot of success being cushy and conservative but GM, saw a growing demand for BMW like luxury cars and went that route leaving no brands at GM, to tackle Lexus, and Lincolns sales. I don't see Lexus, buyers cross shopping Cadillac's in the future because Cadillac, has became more aggressive with it's "art & science" theme which is great !!!! Cadillac, is a performance oriented focused luxury brand. Buick, can now find a place to tackle those customers that like Lexuses softness and give those consumers a less expensive product that will give them 75-80% of the gadgets and 100% of the Lexus comfort and conservative styling !!!!!! :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The reality is GM has changed. I was really amazed at the effort for flawless quality in the assembly. I even had to wear a protector over my ring in case I might accidentally touch a car and scratch it. Robots are wonderful and they don't have legacy retirement and healthcare plans.

    That is true. The good thing is those robots can't do all the tasks needed which still gives several hundred to several thousand people assembly jobs here in the good ol' U.S. of A. ;) I'd rather have less jobs per plant and have more plants here in the U.S. which means more jobs once you start adding all those plants up. Robots, also can't replace white collar jobs in the plants and they also can't replace supplier, and jobs created by the plant in the community. :) A GM, plant has a huge economic impact still on a community. It raises the standard of living for everyone which is a good thing and those plants create tax revenue for state, local, federal, governments and the money stays here at home where it belongs. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Two RWD Buick sedans? Or does Rocky get his Velite?

    I will kiss Lutz, feet if he builds me my 400 hp Twin Turbo dream car the Buick Velite Convertible. I told my wife no matter what I'm getting one if GM, doesn't ruin it by building it to a price point instead of building it to a benchmark like it should be. ;)

    I would probably start a Buick Velite Owners Cult !!!! :D

    God, please whisper into Lutz's ear and give him the courage to build me my General Motors dream car a Tiger Woods Edition 3.6 "High Feature" Twin Turbo 400-450 horsepower Buick Velite 4 seater convertible :cry:

    I would at that momment feel I was the happiest car buff alive. :shades:

    I would either play "The Narcissist" or "Dream On" out my speakers with the hardtop down with my Tiger Buick Golf bag with Nike clubs tilting upright but angled in the rear seat, I would have my Tiger Woods "Get-Up" gear on with his shades, TW red polo shirt, TW hat, and look for the nearest Lexus SC430 to smoke like a cheap cigar. That would be my hole in one :D

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6DowlgSNeQ

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    do not know what the 4th Buick is. Something more expensive than Lucerne and not a Park Avenue.

    There should be a market for a peerformance mid size convertible as also there should be one on the luxury side. No Chevy or Saturn though.


    It just has to be the Velite, right ? :sick: :cry:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Let's put a tariff to balance out that currency manipulation advantage and the Miata, will be engineered like a 1980's Yugo and the Sky, you dislike so much will look like a Rolls Royce in comparison ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'm not picking on you per se but some here gripe about how GM, needs to concentrate on engineering cars to a benchmark and they pretty much have with the Acadia. But no that isn't good enough now because you can pull x,y,z like the Highlander out of your hat to attempt to prove a point. If you closely look at the highlander up close it's not even in the same league as the Acadia IMHO.

    The bottom line is this: I don't want to keep beating this "currency manipulation" drum but the fact remains that Toyota, can sell for significantly less and still make the same profit margin as GM, who has to sell for more to make a decent profit margin. If Congress fixes this advantage Toyota, will have to do one of two things.

    Option A: Raise Prices

    Option B: Cost Cut on the products

    I would assume option "A" will be the option toyota chooses in most cases. The question remains can they afford or engineer a vehicle that will justify those price hikes while keeping costs low ????....I have my doubts....I do believe option "B" will happen in some segments.

    I'm sure Toyota, has opened up their cash coffers to congress. I hope the Big 3 and the UAW closely examine where and to whom that money flows to and creates bad publicity for those policitians receiving dirty money. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    another question of domestic vs. import..

    doesn't make a difference to me, although it'd be nice if there wasn't a difference.


    It's post's like this from outsiders that keep the import vs. domestic buzz going. If you don't like GM, or it's products then why stick around ????

    Seriously....:confuse:

    This is a GM fan board and yes issues that affect GM, come up once in a while. Some might not like our opinions or feelings on other car company's. It would be like me going into the Camry board and telling those people that the 1980's and 90's Camry's were POS's rust bucket's and that's why I wouldn't buy one today. Where would that get me ? It's no longer true today. ;) I hope some of you get my drift ?

    Thanx,

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The real question is - what can GM (and Ford) do to dislodge the apparent high proportion of satisfied import nameplate buyers from their brands and have them try GM again?

    Perhaps, you can explain to me why General Motors, has the highest (#1) repeat buyers in the automobile industry presently ?????

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    So what do y'all think ????

    I think it will sell very well. The Denali trim has been a huge sales success. :shades:

    Rocky
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    umm,? I think you call them fenders?
    Yeah, well US Cars don't work here either, bloody steering is on the wrong side,lol. :)
    Seriously though, alot of the cars there are not real good looking.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Just heard a story about how the imports aren't siting plants in the South because they've used up the available good worker areas. That's why the Hondo plant was put in Indiana. The story stated they believed more new plants would be built in the nothern areas the imports have been avoiding because they don't want labor with higher rates inbred and with union mentality.

    This is a good time for the green companies, at least by media reputation, to reuse some sites of auto plants closed by the US automakers' reduction in plant numbers.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The ring guards and belt protectors have been around for at least 10 years.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmkUVSVHoc8

    You guys may enjoy this vid.
    It is footage of a pole positon lap in a V8 Commodore from about 3 years ago.
    This was for the Bathurst 1000 race, yes, they flog these cars for 1000 kms.
    Hope you enjoy it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The story was a little less complementary about the labor force differences. But the fact Honda built in Southern Central Indiana surprised me. That helped explain their pick. That area has a pool of workers in a large, rural area that's away from Dayton and Cincinnati but relatively close to Indianapolis.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fenxoc-IWb0&mode=related&search=

    This one is from '05.
    This is the Commodore just before VE.
    Nice vid of going around the track from inside the car.
    Turn up your volume :)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I have a feeling one of these days the transplants will become organized.

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Now someone on honda page is discussing Lutz's statement about diesels in passenger vehicles.

    Diesels and Lutz

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Watching them drive from the right side just looks so odd to me. :D

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wow, I had to give him a reply...... ;)

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.