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Sorry, but I don't think that would be your response if you had driven one.....
Well those topics aren't up for review.
Rocky
They aren't going to lose out on the oppertunity to make money over feuding with a union.
The market for Toyotas would then be filled with imports from Japan and other countries, thus resulting in the loss of the USA manufacturing jobs.
That's when the 110th Congress puts such a heavy tariff on their imports that buying a Camy would cost as much as a Lexus LS 460
2: Toyota would refuse the UAW deal, the UAW members would strike, and Toyota would replace them with new workers.
I guess you've never seen a picket-line crossed in the South ???? Well in Kentucky, those folks take the body's into the mountains to be never found again.
Some picketer's the lumber if you know what I mean. Batter-up !
I'm sure the Toyota gave a lot of thought to option 2 already, and located plants accordingly. They are in areas without UAW history, and people would be lining up to take the jobs paying the non-union wage.
Well some of those people gave up good careers to go work in those Toyota factory's and if the Toyota greedy are willing to destroy the workers lives of those company's finacially then Toyota, has to reexamine its self. :mad:
They can afford to pay and should do the right thing.
Rocky
The Pilot had a marginally better ride.
Rocky
We will see. I still wished they would of made me a 7.0
LS-7 HSV Commodore.
Rocky
Rocky
My question is: Instead of closing factories and laying off workers, why doesn't GM use one of its slow-producing factories to build these models instead of importing them from Australia?
the 3-Door ends up at 14749 E with manual and 15815 with auto...
and considering an Euro is $1.3... the 5-Door should end up @ $19,973.46 and the 3-Door @ $20,574.50... so Edmunds in not off I guess...
Holden sell more of them to China that are bought here.
Also, did you US guys know that Holdens are exported to New Zealand, South Afica and United Arab Emerites?
Statesman won Car of the Year there in '06,(UAE)
They also race HSV prepared Commodores there as well.
Then, If sales are good, they will tool up for them in Canada.
Great job on the pics.
Which one do you like, ours or yours?
I don't much like the US version, the front is a bit too rounded.
Same with the G8.
I think they,"Lutz", is just trying to give you something that may have looked similar with to stuff offered in the past.
Most Aussies think the US versions of Holdens look a bit poxy
What is an Enclave?
Could you post a pic please.
I guess they just what to see how the G8 goes sales wise.
Last I heard, the idea was to convert Oshawa to RWD Zeta production for MY 2009 or 10, maybe another plant for overflow, and source the G8 from Australia in the interval.
The Monaro noses are nice, but I like this one better:
and this one best of all:
The Buick Enclave is this thing, giant unibody SUV, a size larger than a Ford Territory or Toyota Kluger. Front-wheel drive, because the only Americans who know what oversteer is are race car drivers.
you and I pal are finding some common ground. I think they should leave the cars alone. Just switch the steering wheel from right to left and it's good enough. How bout this idea guys ? I personally like the Holden styling and the kidney grill from Pontiac has lost some of it's luster. I personally just love the Holden HSV and would love to see it's body work intact for a high performance G8 model. Hell it would give Pontiac some distinguishment in their trims without costing them any money. They could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
I also like you like the Holden Statesman and that other car you showed me. I started thinking and I changed my opinion on it and believe now it would make a nice RWD Lucerne. Does the "Statesman" have Delphi's Magneride MRC ? If so that would ensure that Buick, won't loose it's ride comfort.
Rocky
That is a good question ? Lutz, said if they didn't import it the G8 wouldn't of happened. A suggestion to GM, would be to save the OKC GM plant and build Zeta cars there in the future. GM, pumped hundreds of millions into that plant and would be wise to not totally waste that investment. This is something the UAW will address this contract in September in attempts to save U.S. plants from closing.
The UAW, I guarantee will say to GM, look we will pay a portion of our health insurance to save you tens of billions over the years like we did last year but what do we get in return ? We want to not only save membership jobs but we want more. We the UAW will hold hands with GM, on the march to Universal Healthcare. We (GM-UAW) will work togeather to get congress to not only address healthcare, but we will lobby congress to fix the trade laws in the domestic's automobile manufactors interest. We also are in agreement the currency manipulation is killing the domestics and needs to be addressed and fixed. We will ask Ford and Chrysler to hold hands with us also. We
(UAW, GM, Ford, Chrysler) togeather will also lobby congress to get billion dollar grants for alternative energy technology and we ask in return is for the big 3, to save UAW domestic jobs and build more modern facility's and improve existing ones here in the U.S. to expand and grow our membership. We the UAW want our Big 3 to build relavent products here in the U.S.A. for our citizens to buy. We the UAW will sit on the final product approval board to make sure the proper products are launched to make sure past mistakes that have cost our membership jobs doesn't happen again.
We the UAW will also make work rules more flexible and cost effective for the company across the nation similar to the Lansing, Michigan plant but we will expect more union jobs in return by General Motors expanding here in the U.S.
So this is my Top-5 predictions for the next UAW-GM contract.
#1 Since Toyota workers are making $3 dollars an hour more than UAW workers the UAW will probably be able to save wage cuts and perhaps even gain some over the contact because they will need to make extra money to invest into the new 401K plan for retirement.
#2 I expect the comapny however to increase health care costs per worker from $0.00 to $100-200 a month. This will save billions more dollars for GM. I also think we could see a small increase for retirees but I doubt it. I do believe active employees will shoulder all of the costs.
#3 I expect more flexible work rules across the nation. The UAW won't lose any existing jobs but will ask for more plants and jobs to be built here in the U.S.
I also expect if Universal Healthcare gets passed GM, will expand even more here in the states after 2008' and I believe this will be in the contracts language.
#4 GM, will ask the UAW to delete the define benefit plan and will in return give future and recently new UAW employees a "enhanced" 401K plan to eliminate legacy costs. I expect the UAW, will be able to use this one as a bargaining chip to get more jobs and perhaps get real "profit shairing" bonuses and stock options ? I do see the define benefit plan going away but maybe the UAW can pull of a miracle and save it ?
#5 Jobs Banks. UAW-President said this one is off the table but I'm still skeptical..... All of the existing members in the jobs bank have been transferred as far as I know. I know the Big 3 will go after this one but I don't think GM, will succeed. The UAW, will counter and say why are you guys worried if we already agreed you guys are going to expand here in the U.S. and regain market-share. I do think the jobs bank program will be a bigger issue with Ford and Chrysler since they are facing even greater market-share declines than GM and thus will have less jobs.
Very Possible Secret #6
In summary I think the September contract issue will go smooth without a strike at GM. I think it's in both party's interest to avoid a strike but GM, is going to have to remain fair and vis versa for the UAW. I believe if they work togeather during contract and their after the UAW and General Motors can make some promises to each other for the future ONLY IF GM, remains successful with the turnaround plan.
It's in both sides interest to elect politicians that are friendly to american business and worker's which will save the company money while saving blue and white collar jobs at the same time. The next president and congess hold the key's to future domestic manufactoring in this country.
GM, is in the business to make money for it's investors, and the UAW is in the business to make money and secure benefits for its membership. However the UAW needs the company to make money so it can get those benefits. They both have a common interest in that respect.
Rocky
We've had the push for "government" healthcare under various euphemisms since the Hillary secret, illegal meetings in the Hillary/Bill administration #1.
We already have universal healthcare. No one goes without: the emergency rooms serve as doctor offices for many who've learned how to get the most out of that system. They use the EMS squads as taxis when they have a sore throat. The cost is picked up by county/municipal taxpayers as subsidies to the hospitals for taking indigent patients and writing off their bills. Anyone goes to the hospitals and they're covered under their welfare subsidy programs or the taxpayers in the area pay under indigent coverage.
We have excellent healthcare for government officeholders in Washington. We have WIC which I believe came out of the Hillary administration #1. Children in the care of state programs and others are covered by those state taxpayers (i.e., foster children in KY). There also were some other subtle coverages.
The difference is who pays for these. We taxpayers already are paying heartily for inefficient, inconsiderate users of the emergency room setup. If the taxpayers have to shoulder all the costs, the setup is going to cost much, much more overall because the politicians will make sure no voter goes unrewarded for their vote next time to the politician who implemented the most giveaway for their group. Do you know of a system the government has operated more efficiencly once they took over? Prescription drug makers are controlled by government; the cost is much higher than the same drugs in other countries!
If the companies still have some control over the coverage and the implementation by the health insurance companies, it's a flip whether United Healthcare will be more efficient at coverage cost reduction at the user end (i.e., doctor's office visit UCR rates).
I suspect the major companies will be better at cost control than any next federal administration will be. But just imagine the large healthcare donors and contributors helping elected officials plan how universal healthcare will be implemented using them as the handling agents? Imagine all the secret meetings that will be held a la Hillary's first attempt at socializing medicine.
No matter what they call the plan, it's still a duck and the losers will be ???? US. Has anyone considered the tax costs for the program? In other countries the socialized retirement/healthcare plans cost a lot more tax money than here.
For GM's benefit, there is no savior coming out of the clouds to pay retiree costs to which they agreed, unless the union wants to negotiate for retirees and workers to pay a more realistic fraction of their paychecks for the cost, like many other Americans are doing now... but I fully expect a little piece added here and little piece added there will chip away toward socialized medicine. It happened with social security. Now parents even try to get their kids labels in elementary school as mentally challenged, learning challenged, ADD, etc., so the parent can get "free" money from social security.
GM will not be saved by having others pay for their workers' costs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
John Edwards plan:
http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf
This is a very well thought out plan that is friendly to the tax payer and american corporations.
This is why the UAW-GM support a plan just like this one because it cuts costs dramatically and insurance company's compete against one another.
I don't know what the Hillary's plan is ? Perhaps you do ?
General Wesley Clark backs a "single payer" system which is found in Edwards plan.
I didn't want to start a National Health Care debate but rather was giving my opinion on what I thought would happen by September based on current and past "shop talk" at GM, given to me by family and thought I would share it.
Rocky
P.S. lets move on to another issue......
It amazes me people will still find fault with a car that has won many awards and label it not smooth or rough. :sick:
What does GM, have to do ???? They will never satisfy all I suppose but based on what I've been reading it is doing quite well this year.
Rocky
I guess I shouldn't be surprised one bit that mag being brought up.
Rocky
I'm going to run over to the Saturn store to see these. I've seen them moving around our area. Then I'll stop by the Toy deal. They're rapidly expanding their showroom since a Mazda deal opened up right next to them with a huge expanse of showroom and cars lined up on the lots.
By now you should have learned that the idea car has certain features from someone's favorite. Then if the next product has that feature it's still missing some other now favorite quality/option/property/supposed feature. They'll never be good enough. It's like step parents.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As lemko, would say "Holy Smokes" :surprise:
Well I'm not getting a friendly response in the ELLPS forum as one guy sited a BMW 345i that is coming out supposably in 3 years with 1000 hp and 1000 lbs of tq.
I think he said it fly's or goes back in time or something after he listed all the gimmicks I mean gadgets it had :P
Geeez.........
Rocky
The ute pic below are still the current style.
They are not doing wagons and utes till late this year.
That SS up top, the HSV version with the LS2 were selling for around low 40k before the VE came out.
A bargain because they were above 50k.
They had a 6 speed man or the crappy 4 speed auto.
That Enclave thing looks like a re-worked Daiwoo?
Thanks for the pic though.
Here is the HSV ute in a bit of track action.
Enjoy.
ps, watch the full vid.
I'm sorry but the Enclave is much nicer in design than any Holden
Rocky
Rocky
BTW, no one who likes the Pilot should be criticizing GM's plastics because the HOnda is FULL of rock hard plastics.
Gm has been improving quality for years so this is not a new process that they have just begun. As for recalls and setbacks, last time I checked Toyota is recalling more vehicles in the US than GM. I havent heard of any major GM recalls for quite some time. You are speaking of corporate scandals and recalls as if GM has been awash in them lately. I cant even recall the most recent GM corporate scandall. GM's bad news has centered around losses and it's SUV heavy lineup of late. If you notice, most negative coverage of GM doesnt focus on quality. In some ways that is old news and even GM hating publications like the NYT and others dont harp on GM's quality. Most articles will tell you that GM's quality is on par with Toyota and HOnda but the public doesn't get it yet.
Maybe that is because GM refuses to issue recalls and would rather pay attorney fees to fight them? Remember the side saddle gas tanks on pickups?
"BTW, no one who likes the Pilot should be criticizing GM's plastics because the HOnda is FULL of rock hard plastics."
I never criticized GM plastics, but come to think about it, I seemed to have problems with various little knobs, levers, and other pieces that would break off in my 2002 Pontiac. At least on my Honda's they are just cheap looking but stay intact.
1487: I saw you had a point on Lexus and that they don;t sell that many cars. They were the leading US luxury brand seller last year. Also, I saw you had a point about Toyota not selling cars on styling and I agree but when has selling an Impala or Malibu sold for the styling for GM? Toyota is just bread and butter like Chevy or Ford. Also on your post above you say they are so many Camry's sold well GM sells alot of SUV's so I guess you wouldn;t buy one?
Actually Pontiac G6 and Ford Fusion outsold Mazda 6 in 2006. Here are some numbers for you:
Mazda 6: 66K units sold in 2006
Pontiac G6: 157K
Hyundai Sonata: 149K units
Ford Fusion: 142K units
I disagree with your opinion because this is not the 80's anymore. Mitsu, Toyota, and Honda all have workers in the US so I think they hav a right to lobby congress. Rocky, I respect you as a poster on this board but I disagree with you on this. Like I said before, GM sells cars overseas just like honda and Toyota sell cars out of their home country.
Of course Toyota is going to take GM;s latest round of new product seriously. What do you think Toyota's not going to look at GM's latest round of products releases? Toyota is a very smart company and they always looking at whats going on with other brands. Toyota in the 90's Honda was stiff competition. Than Toyota saw Hyundai coming up a few years ago and acknowledged Hyundai's presecnce and now to me its no surprise that Toyota is taking notice of GM right now because of GM's new product releases and Gm is Toyota's biggest rival right now too.
Even as an import guy I am taking notice of GM's latest round of product releases.
I thought the Camry interior is way better than the Impala's. Oh well just differences in opinion. Just so you don't think I'm biased the last generation Camry(02-06) interior to me was not that good.
The Celica and MR2 flopped because Toyota didn't market those 2 cars enough like they do the Camry and Corolla and Toyota at the time had a lack of appeal from younger buyers(when the last gen Celica and MR 2 were out and now as well.)
GM has a history of chanfing names with its bread and butter 4dr sedans while toyota doesn;t.
As for Acura the Vigor was not a bread butter product car. THE SLX I don't know if Honda expected it to be a big seller. The Integra/RSX doesn;t fit in with Acura's current product line so thats why the sports car got killed from the Acura Line. Acura is more up-scale now than they were 10 years when the Integra was its top seller.
Infinti-Yeah they have changed and killed product names alot especially in the past 5 years. I'll give you that.
I'm sure Toyota will have the bugs for the 08 Camry worked out. I would never buy a car in its first year of new bodystyle because they suffer from too many first year issues.
I;m sure GM has cars with problems too so its just not Toyota's with problems.