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General Motors discussions
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Rocky
Rocky
The bottom line is GM, needs more product and if they make a little money here and a little money there the next thing you know you have enough money you can build next a Scrooge McDuck money bin. :P
Rocky :shades:
Rocky
Rocky
'Nuff Said.
If you feel the need to zing someone, please don't.
Carry on!
The ending od course has been re done but it's still a gooden'
Rocky
Saturn is doing great. Chevrolet, looks like it's doing good except for the Cobalt needs to be re done. Cadillac, looks like it's headed in the right direction and so does GMC.
Rocky
Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, could easily fit under the GM emblem
Rocky
I'll take the last as the most likely.
However I see it as another Chrysler buys Daimler, or SBC buys ATT and ends up using ATT's name, or many other funny mergers that have occured.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They don't get to break union contracts, Many of the same suppliers like Johnson Controls, Gentex, Donnelly, etc that supply GM, also supply Chrysler. Some like Bosch could lose or gain business from GM. Delphi, now could lose more or gain some or even a lot. Yes they do block a foreign company from gaining access to the North American market and yes they do have the priviledge of puting those lossed sales to Chrysler in their column. To the best of my knowledge Chrysler, has a lot of product that can be launched over the next year or so. So if GM, is able to buy up Chrysler, they will get to enjoy these technology's, platforms, etc for use on both car company's.
I'll take the last as the most likely.
And you could probably be correct.
However I see it as another Chrysler buys Daimler, or SBC buys ATT and ends up using ATT's name, or many other funny mergers that have occured.
What's wrong with Chrysler being under the General Motors emblem ??? Hell at least it would be under american control instead of handing it to a foreign company. Would you really want Chrysler, to be under the China'a control ?????
Rocky
It got started when Dieter Zetsche said DC would not rule out the possible sale of its US operations.
Rumors come and go every day of the week in the auto business, and especially so following such disastrous news of a major downsizing at Chrysler.
So GM and Chrysler are "talking", and the first rumor arising is they're talking "sale".
The reality??
Conversations throughout the auto industry happen all the time--and most often they lead to nothing!!
Joining forces at Corporate GM and Chrysler levels just doesn't make any sense, period!!
They each have competitive vehicles with dealers across the street from each other, from subcompacts to full size pickups, and everything in between.
If there's any fire in all the smoke arising from these rumors, it's most likely this---With the Chrysler group losing money and looking for alternatives to save development costs, they would welcome opportunities to joint venture and share technology toward development of hardware such as a clean diesel engine built at a single plant.
Another possibility, reported in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal just yesterday, says that GM and Chrysler have been discussing a possible alliance related to large sport utility vehicles.
Furthermore, Daimler and Chrysler are currently so intertwined that it would be extremely difficult for them to separate even if somebody was foolish enough to offer to purchase Chrysler in its entirety.
Last but not least, the major issue of Chrysler's pension and health care liabilities for employees and retirees is a formidable obstacle for any purchase. It isn't chump change by any means--you're talking mega billions of dollars.
My point?
It isn't anything more than rumor, anf highly unlikely that it'll happen...ever!
Rocky
Perhaps, if speculation has any merit or makes any sense at all.
And what I posted is not intended as fun. But it does make sense.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The CTS is Cadillac's entry level model. I think that the CTS has been taking some of the DTS market because it is cheaper. I think moving the DTS to RWD is good, putting it on the zeta platform, shared with Chevrolet, means a lower end model. This does not prevent Cadillac from building a sigma model that is bigger, and better than the STS, and priced over $60,000.
I can't see a large Buick sedan and a large Cadillac sedan both selling in the $40,000 to $50,000 range. The Buick will have to be cheaper than the similar Cadillac. However, the CTS, a smaller car, and a sports sedan, would not damage a Buick priced around the $40,000 level. However, at $40,000 the Buick will have to be very nice to sell.
By combining GM and Chrysler sales, GM could keep Toyota #2 for another year perhaps, but is this really worth it?
Furthermore, IMO it's not much fun speculating how many more jobs would be gone if two companies the size of GM and Chrysler were to become one!!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Chrysler becomes another GM set of divisions, GM divisions are even more muddied, GM fails to take tough action it needs to continue to profitability.
The best case: (for the business, not necessarily the workers)
GM buys Chrysler. Consolidate divisions. Where similar vehicles exist, kill the weaker one. Shut down excess capacity. GM could end up at the same size as now, having taken the best of Chrysler and throwing away their worst (and GM's worst). Result is lower capacity than GM+Chrysler separately, stronger products, better competitiveness. American nameplates downsize to better meet demand realities of the market for their products.
Also, I'm starting to see more "GM AUTO MALLS", where most GM brands are under one roof at a mega-dealership. One has to wonder if they were to buy the whole DCX group, and incorporate this strategy, it may make sense. Think of this: a network of dealerships dedicated to the economy brands (Chevy, Dodge, Saturn) sporty (Pontiac, Jeep, Hummer, GMC) and premium (Cadillac, Buick, Chrysler, SAAB, and Mercedes). I'd bet if the designers were given the opportunity to truely express themselves, customers would have a great variety of vehicles to choose from at each dealer, thereby propping up all the brands.
they already got the Renassaince Center from ford. :surprise:
It would be rather difficult for GM to take a restructuring charge if they bought another whole car company. And I don't think the UAW would be very sympathetic, either.
On the other hand, GM acquiring Chrysler may be the only way to get rid of those God awful Germanic interiors found in Chrysler products of late.
Dusty
Instead, Chrysler is going to use the GMT 900 platform for a large SUV of its own. (Don't ask me why Chrysler needs a Tahoe/Suburban at this juncture.)
Secondly, Chrysler needs a small car now that the unlamented Neon is gone. Reportedly, they will get one from GMDAT.
1: Both companies' stock prices went up on the news - and there are stiff fines for making up crap to inflate stock prices.
2: More telling is the enormous pressure Mercedes is under from its shareholders in Germany, who almost to a person want Mercedes to get rid of Chrysler before it kills their credibiity/image.
ie - talks evidently DID take place. Now, what happens... whole other issue. Mercedes and GM aren't known for being very level-headed, afterall. :P
Actually, a Daimler spokesperson was quoted as saying quite the opposite this week, words to the effect of "Chrysler continues to be independent enough of Daimler that it could easily be separated from our business". The two have separate platforms, components, and manufacturing, in fact. Any current Chrysler using Mercedes components or design is using last-gen stuff that Mercedes is no longer using.
Oh yeah, and while Chrysler's stock went up 4% on the news of a possible sale to GM, GM's stock went up.....exactly $0.10/share. That's right, one thin dime. I think if investors thought there was any chance of this seriously happening, GM's stock would have gone further into the dumper.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Harry
As for Chrysler - it can't sell the SUVs it has now. Why add another one to the mix?
Sorry for the delay, just now just catching up to everything. I see the one GM board is finally done - thank goodness. I just stopped posting cause it was getting to be reall romper-roomy in there, very childish.
Anyway, it seems the "gang" tried to pull a fast one on the UAW with the non-inclusion of them in the deal. It's kind of crazy but I wonder who's idea it was to try to slip this past them without them scrutinizing the fine print.
Lately it's been pretty quiet - the calm b4 the storm? It's bad that the ChrysCo plant (Durango/Aspen) out east is going to take that hit. Man, that's tough.
Most likely though is that Chrysler will end up with someone from the Korean makers. That would benefit them both.
Sun Times
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is great. I sat in the front. I sat in the back seat. It was an XR model. Beautiful. My only reservation is wheels and tires. I'd like to have more standard tires and wheels.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for how small I like my cars, I would NEVER consider Aura anything CLOSE to a small car. Astra is at the top end of the size spectrum of cars I consider small.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Maybe GM's best chance for success is to drastically change the decades' old failed business model of 5 brand tiers, now 4 without Olds. Sales data on GM web site show that Buick is just not cutting it. From 2002 sales of 436K, sales have gone down every year through 2006 at 241K.
GM should get rid of Buick and move existing owners, and potential, toward the Cadillac brand. Cadillac should have a range of models from entry lux to top end that would cover a Buick owner's needs, as well as bring in more buyers. Buick does not fit. GM could follow successful business model from Toyota which is the Lexus brand which covers wide spectrum of MSRP from low 30's up to 60's and has many lux offerings. Probably many buyers of entry luxury Lexus would have been Buick buyers back in 60s, 70s. GM lost many potential entry lux buyers to Acura, Infiniti and Lexus with failed strategy and lack of competitive offerings.
Toyota's "Buick" model is the Toyota Avalon. With similar packaging at GM, the Lucerne could be the top end Chevrolet and priced to match the Avalon.
Toyota has two basic brands, Toyota and Lexus. The best selling Lexus models are based on Toyota platforms. GM's basic problem I think goes back to the late 50's when the full size Chevrolet was moved up to the B-body from the smaller A-body. Looking back from where we are today, it seems to me that GM would have been wiser to have made Chevrolet the small car brand, with perhaps some of the Pontiac's also small. Maybe, both Chevrolet and Pontiac should have been the small car brands. This would have allowed Oldsmobile to move down market in the full size range, with Buick remaining a mid-priced brand and Cadillac a big luxury brand.
What we have now is Cadillac moving into the mid-size range with the CTS as a mid-priced car. Basically one can get most anything from a Chevy-Caddy dealer. Pontiac-Buick-GMC is not relevant. However, if the Pontiac-Buick brands are dumped, and replaced with Chevys and Cadillacs, I suspect that many of the current owners of Pontiacs and Buicks will go to some other non-GM make.
Nah. It is 4. All of these others were a mistake, such as Saab, Hummer, Saturn. Intent of Saturn was to compete or beat Honda Civic for which it never did. Original car setup was 5 with GMC being truck. Wasn't original business model of 5 tier that people start out with Chevy and as they progress in life, career and finances they move up one or more levels to Pontiac, Olds, Buick then Cadillac? That model is no longer viable. Only need 2-3 tiers such as at Honda, Toyota and Nissan.
There is much that is muddled up with a lot of duplication and confusion in GM's scheme. GM already came part of way in dropping Olds. They need to do more fine pruning. This would be positive.
A higher end Chevrolet, such as the old Caprice Classic from 77 through 80's, would do well against Toyota Avalon. They could either resurrect name of Caprice, with a suitable up-to-date car, or rebadge the Lucerne. I had a Caprice a long time ago and it was a nice car for its "time". There was nothing like it from Honda, Toyota or Nissan.
The business model basically went out with the introduction of small cars in the 60's.
When Oldsmobile was out of production, around 2004, GM sales were down 300,000 from 1999, when Olds sales were about 300,000 more than they were in 2004...
What GM needs to do is clean up the mess of products that they have. I am not sure how that should be done. However, the CTS for example, could have been the Oldsmobile Intrigue, which would have been much closer to the type of car that Oldsmobile was supposed to be selling. The Aurora should have been the STS, or perhaps one of the Holden cars.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1) Buick and Pontiac are not doing so well, so they could turn them into chrysler's and dodges then phaze out the dying brands yet keep the best products. Dodges would be holdens really.
2) GMC could be paired with Chrysler as a near luxury brand but with trucks (make Denali line bigger).
3) Dodge would be the new performance brand.
4) Caddy would maintain top luxury position.
5) Chevy would be the mainstream brand.
6) Hummer would be near luxury SUV's (a job they are doing well at)
7) Jeep would be lower end SUV's (also a job they are doing well at since commander sells poorly).
8) Saturn would still be an import fighter with no change.
9) Saab could gain some dodge/chrysler products to fill in its line up .or else just kill it.
I would like to have more standard tires and wheels. I don't want to buy tires for replacement of the small profile large rim that was on the car I saw. I didn't look at cars on the lot since it was cold. Every salesman was busy so I had an unbothered browse around the showroom.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,