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So we have:
Chevy
Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Cadillac-Hummer-Saab
Saturn
Yes, GMC is similar to Chevy, but it gives the Buick-Pontiac dealers a truck line to sell, and it is GM's second biggest make in terms of sales (behind Chevy).
I suppose the real question is will Saturn bring in enough buyers with the revamped lineup? Otherwise, it would seem it's time to consider ending the Saturn experiment.
I think many would agree with GM having too many brands but remember GM still out sells Toyota here by about 2:1.
Toyota has 3 brands and GM has 8. Issue is that is what GM has and to cut a brand is very expensive as they found with Olds. And when they did cut they lost the Olds sales.
I do feel that if GM buys Chrysler then we will see at least 2 brands gone in the next 5 years. Chevrolet greatly outsells the economical Dodge division. I think these ones are on the possible list to be chopped (if GM bought): Dodge, Buick, Chrylser, Pontiac. And in that order. Pontiac cars outsell Chrylser cars.
That is a good question. I know that GMC sells huge numbers of trucks. Also they are a step up from plain old work trucks like chevys and IF Cadillac had not gotten the Escalade would have been the Luxury truck for GM.
Saturn brings in the import buyers. If that continues then Saturn will continue.
Northstar V8 but yes it's FWD. The LaCrosse could stay a FWD but the Lucerne, needs to be RWD.
The Lucerne, is far from the best thing we got here. We do have great cars like the Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, STS, STS-V, Escalade, Escalade EXT, SRX, Corvette, and soon the Camaro, RWD Impala, and redesigned Saab 9-5 and 9-3, and of course the beautiful Lambada CUV's
Rocky
Yep, amazing isn't it, with a war going on and all?
But "back in the day," we were following the latest on Marilyn Monroe, Frank Sinatra, and Elvis. :sick:
Chrysler-FWD/AWD/RWD Luxury Performance-High Volume with European flavor like VW, Mercedes-ish
Dodge-FWD/RWD Entry-level Performance-High Volume- Take on Ford, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Hyundai
Chevrolet-RWD/FWD Entry-Level Performance-High Volume-Take on Ford, Toyota, Honda, American Flavor
Jeep-Off Road Entry-level-Mid-High Volume. Blue Collar's off-roader vehicle with focus of being the best and climbing hills, rocks, and be trail rated.
Hummer-Off Road Luxury-level-Niche. Needs Land Rover Luxury and Land Cruiser Comfort. Simply needs to be as good as Jeep at going off road but will spend most of it's time in Aspen at the ski slopes. :P
Pontiac-RWD/AWD Entry-Level Luxury Performance brand Holden Commodore-G8 Holden Statesman-G10/Bonneville-Be Acura/Infiniti-ish with lots of Gadgets.
Saab-Luxury Performance-Volvo/Audi-ish-I'd maybe buy the Mitsubishi EVO-X's (S-AWC) All Wheel Drive System or reverse engineer it. This brand needs a strong European flavor.
GMC- Luxury Upscale Truck Maker. Needs to continue to target imports but remain more premium than Chevrolet and Dodge. Need to get unique interiors and offer most of the gadgets of Cadillac but be a truck with truck capability's.
Cadillac- Top Dog. Cadillac needs to be in pursuit of being "The Standard of the World" of Luxury cars and build cars to a Benchmark and not let price get in the way.
Needs to have BMW-Lexus-Mercedes-Jaguar-Aston-Porsche flavor mixed into a unique american flavor. This brand needs cars like the Ultra Luxury Sedan with a V16 or V12. The STS needs to be a $50-60K car with a bigger DTS type going into the $60-$75K range. This brand could use even more models to keep the hype up and needs to expand the
"V-performance models to the Escalade series"
Saturn-import focused. Honda, Toyota, Mazda Miata/S2000 Needs to be a very high volume player with small-medium size cars. Like Socala4, use to say GM needs to learn from Honda to get the youth into entry level cars to sell them Buicks and Cadillacs later in life. I kinda agree with him. It does to some degree start here with entry-level cars.
I think I got it covered. Some of you eliminating brands is plain foolish. GM, needs to hire me as their marketing guy and let ME implement my plan so we can keep all the brands.
Sincerely,
Rocky
Plekto, both Blue and White Collar workers that aren't making fat salary's deserve to get retirement compensation. They don't have million dollar "Golden Parachutes" like upper management. Upper Manangement are the ones making the decisions and the small guys are the ones who have to pay the price. You won't see upper mangement ever take a hard landing as they always have pillows underneath them with million dollar strings. :mad:
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/NewsLanding
Well it looks like this is Japans best attempt to take on the H3 ? :surprise: Okay.......
Rocky
Chevy- Bread 'n Butter, Entry-level/High Volume competing with Ford, Toyota, Honda
Saturn-"import-focused", Entry-level competing with Nissan, Honda, Mazda
GMC- Actual Professional Grade trucks, including all the Heavy Duty Pickups, and Cargo Vans
Pontiac- Mid-Market Performance Luxury competing with Infiniti, Acura
Buick- Mid-Market Luxury competing with Lexus, Volvo
Hummer- Off-Road Luxury, competing with Land Rover not Jeep
Saab- Sporty Luxury, competing with BMW, Porsche, Maserati, Aston Martin
Cadillac- Ultimate Luxury, competing with M-Benz, Audi, Jag
And IF they buy Chrysler (i dont think they should--just buy Jeep/minivans if possible)
Dodge/Chrysler- get nixed
Jeep- entry level off-road
Only difference would be I can see Saab going away. I've never heard of many people cross shopping Saturn with the imports (although I think that's what GM originally wanted).
I've still seen scant differences (other than the badge) between GMC trucks and Chevy trucks.
I still don't see the need for Pontiac, nor Buick.
Maybe GM should just buy Daimler and fold mercedes into the Cadillac division. Chrysler replaces Buick. Dodge replaces Pontiac. Jeep stays Jeep (maybe fold Hummer into that division). Chevy stays Chevy. Everything else goes away. Now, that would be some kind of car company.
In entry level cars, your statement is more true. The problem is GM offers larger 4 cylinders in Cobalt/G5/HHR than Civic, Corrola ect. What they need is a 1.8 or 2.0 ecotec as the base and leave the 2.2 and 2.4 as options.
If they don't expand the line a bit to compete with these boys, I would cut them. They aren't achieving much from where they are now, so it may be in GM's best interest to nix them if this doesn't change.
I believe that GMC is going to say in their commercials "we are professional grade" then they ought to be. I believe that if a person is on a smaller budget and cannot afford to get the duramax that they should offer a gas motor that has some down low pulling power. I have a 2002 Z71 with a 5.3 and it doesn't start waking up until past 3000 rpm. It would be nice to have something that would have some down low pulling power.
While I believe that society expects more amenities on the interior of pickups and that I myself have grown accustomed to the niceties in life but maybe GM ought to get back to basics. What I mean, just from the pickup stand point, is build a pickup that hold up to everyday rigors, (ex. not having worry about replacing door pins at 130,000 miles), seats not tearing, etc. I also believe that if you are going to build pickups, put on decent equipment on from the factory, such as tires, shocks ect. Ford offers Rancho on their FX4s but GM will only put Bilsteins on Z71s and GM does have the 2500 and up Z71 package. If you do not have that package the shocks suck and so to the tires. I don't think that a 2500HD should have some weenie 245/75/16, all season piece of junk. It needs a tire that has some meat to it.
I know that this is a little of subject and I haven't talked about the cars or anything but if GM is going to stay in this market, they are going to have a build a pickup build one that goes above and beyond, what they perceive to be expected usage of the vehicle, and make to where just general repairs are easily accessible to anyone.
Let's say they spend 100 million on TV and other advertizing and grease the palms - I mean donate to campaigns. A billion would be silly. Yet, let's also say that by doing this they only need supplimental insurance on top of the basic for most employees. Say, they save 50% on their healthcare. And honestly, 80-90% of the U.S. population wants it as well. So win-win!
15-1*50%=8 billion total spent out of that 15 billion to solve the problem and GM would get an advantage for its employees as well, probably lowering that 8 billion to almost nothing.
My comments about the union wasn't about the workers but about what the UAW has become. GM should kick the UAW out of town and make its own union that's GM only. That would be first on any list. Second would be national healthcare. Third would be to put the pension system in proper order. Fourth would be to get rid of all of the deadweight. GM has no need, for instance, for such an insanely large pool of workers/job bank/etc.
That backlash wouldn't do a thing about free trade, btw - it's what's keeping our economy artificially high. Ourtsourcing everything to another country to keep inflation at bay is a temporary fix at best. The U.S. economy looks and feels good, but it's all purely from nearly free labor and materials.
Europe tried this 200 years ago with their system of colonies. And it backfired bigtime. Our problem, though, now, is China is a single entity and they literally COULD kick us out in 24 hours and there would be nothing we could do about it.
If China, for instance, was to close off everything tommorrow, prices for everything currently made in China would got up by 50%. Or I should say, go to where it should be. Ever wonder how that ream of paper costs the same as it did 5 years ago?
But enough of this - GM needs to make this work somehow, someway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Automobile_Group
Read near the very bottom.
This is the first company from China that is going to be selling cars here. They own MG now and are using the most favored nation status(essentially a one-country NAFTA) to build a big plant in the U.S. Essentially they will make a car in China and assemble it here with non-union labor(and mostly robots at that).
Expect to see a car that's as good as Suzuki or Daewoo makes but for $6-7K. Thanks to China's artificial tinkering with their currency value, they essentially can build a car here for below cost and get away with the price-fixing.
We really and I mean *REALLY* don't want a Chinese company buying Chrysler.(not to mention the fact that all of those patents would be public domain in China - just what they need to blow a huge hole in our markets)
The real question is whether there are enough people who will buy GM products in the future to keep them profitable. The answer depends in large part on what kind of products GM puts into production in the future.
Chrysler should lose the Pacifica, Aspen, PT Cruiser. Keeping the T&C, Sebring should be a coupe and convertible only, keep 300 maybe? and the Crossfire would fit between the Sky/Solstice twins and the Vette/XLR.
Jeep should have only three models, the Wrangler, Cherokee, and a redesigned Liberty.
GM's new lineup would be:
Chevy:Entry level brand
Chrysler:Sporty american brand
Saturn:import fighting brand
Cadillac:Luxury brand
(all with a full vehicle line-up)
Dodge and Jeep:entry level niche brand.
Pontiac-Buick-GMC:niche brands more upscale than the Chevy and Chrysler.
Hummer:utility off road niche brand, above Jeep.
Saab would be a luxury import or maybe a nice trade for MB to acquire in trade for a price reduction on Chrysler.
Saab is big overseas.
A huge percentage of Saturn owners are import intenders.
If they're going to push it as a "work truck", then it should have work truck capabilities. I do understand that they have some specific models designated at work trucks. But, as of today, there's nothing there that really differentiates them from Chevy.
They used to know how to do that.
http://www.acarisnotarefrigerator.com/Article_Evan_166_20070222.htm
Good post pal...
Do you know anything about the new Z60 and Z85 suspensions in GM trucks ?
Rocky
Rocky
I've been to quite a few UAW union meetings and they all want the same thing. A fair days pay, good health insurance, good retirement benefits, job security. If you break the UAW into a GM union, Ford Union, Chrysler union, that divides the union dues money thus creating more overhead and expense thus less money goes into the pot.
The UAW, also represents other shop beyond just the Big 3 and like the union slogan says: "united we stand, divided we fall" that is the truth. It takes money and clout to make a impact and even though the UAW has shrunk over the years because of bad government policy's they still are large enough to have a impact in our government system and the workers wouldn't get the benefits like subpay @ 90% if they were divided.
Rocky
I'll post your Escalade vs. Denali reply in the Cadillac "The Standard of the World" Forum forum
Rocky
GM should dump Saab and Saturn. The Aura's getting good reviews, but it still has to overcome Saturns 17 year legacy of lousy cars. I don't believe the Aura is going to sell well.
I'd like to see GM breathe more life into their Buicks. The LaCrosse and Lucerne are excellent cars. Dump the Rendezvous and put out a new midsize car that appeals to a younger crowd. This way, the LaCrosse is no longer the entry level. They'd get more sales for those looking to spend in the $17K range.
Rocky
Rocky
Why are you comparing Anna Nicole and Britney to foreign legacy costs? We live in the USA anyway(I don't know about overseases) in a celebrity driven society. In the 90's it was quite different though when the press wasn't on the tails of the celebrities personal lives all the time.
If you want to complain about the yen or trade costs(i.e. tariffs) I agree with you even as a Japanese car fan the Japanese Car Companies do have an advantage over the Domestic 2.5 because of the yen. BTW, I do wonder if the German Car Companies have an advantage over the Domestics as well when it comes to money/profits like the Japanese Car Companies do over the Domestics.
I think the Domestic 2.5 do have more problems themselves(within their own companies)than worrying how much profit say Toyota is making. The Domestics need to worry about themselves in terms of making as many people buy their products as possible. Its always about the product. If people don;t buy your product you have to find out why and correct it so people buy your product(.i.e. car in this case.) Lets say a certain generation of XXXcar didn;t sell well. The manufacturer of that car has to find out why that generation of car didn;t sell. Was it the styling, were the plastics too cheap, did the car not have enough interior room for its class, or was it priced it too high?
Pontiac-I don't think they can an Infinti M fighter because the Infiniti M fighter would go into Caddy price territory. I can see them making a TL or G35 competitor but undercutting the TL or G35 in price.
"Saab- Sporty Luxury, competing with BMW, Porsche, Maserati, Aston Martin"
Saab does not have the prestige to comete with these car companies and like I said before Saab had their chance to compete with BMW in the 80's but lost badly in the long run.
"Cadillac- Ultimate Luxury, competing with M-Benz, Audi, Jag"
Caddy is already trying to compete with Benz and their prestige level(Caddy;s) is way above Audi and Jag has very low sales numbers in the US. I would say the CTS competes more with the Acura TL and Infinti G35 4 dr but the rest of Caddy's line-up goes for Mercedes Benz and Lexus.
What? Buick should be selling cars priced at 17K? 17K is like the price that compact cars go for. You want Buick to offer a compact car? That just goes against what Buick stands for which is being a mid-luxury brand. I know Buick sold compact cars in the late 80's/early 90's with the Somerset/Skylark and Century(when it was a compact) but I don;t see why Buick should sell a compact since they are a mid-level luxury company and have been since 1994-1995 maybe.
Rocky I;m with you on what GM should do on the brands that they have now but to buy Chrysler and have 11 brands no way. GM already has too many dealers as it is.
Maybe GM should just buy Daimler and fold mercedes into the Cadillac division. Chrysler replaces Buick. Dodge replaces Pontiac. Jeep stays Jeep (maybe fold Hummer into that division). Chevy stays Chevy. Everything else goes away. Now, that would be some kind of car company.
Wait a second you don;t see the need for Pontiac bet yet you want to replace them with Dodge I don;t get that one. What does GM get from Dodge thats so great maybe the Charger and the Caliber(if you put a better interior in it) but thats about it.
As for Mercedes being bought by Gm no way the Germans would ever do that.
Chrysler replaces Buick-All Buick gets is the 300 really. All the rest of the line-up I think GM already has covered except for the mini-vans. Ok say they gain the mini-vans on top of gaining the 300. Maybe if Chrysler puts a new-gen Pacifica maybe that would be a good seller for
Buick.
As far as crying to congress for more tariffs I'll agree with you and maybe the yen but thats it.
I look at it this way. If GM, was able to re invent the Chrysler Corp brands it wouldn't be a bad thing. Chrysler I'd make them European flavored and maybe develop platforms with Saabs for those brands. Just an idea.
Dodge-Would be entry level american cars to take on Ford.
I'd probably make Chevrolet and Saturn focus more on Honda/Nissan/Toyota with some Japanese flavor both need good customer service and would implement Saturn's customer service stradegy across the board.
Jeep- Jeep would be my entry level off-road 4x4 trail rated brand. Hummer would move slightly upmarket and focus on luxury off-roading and would have nice comfy luxurious interior and powerful engines. Both brands would get Duramax diesel engine technology.
Rocky
If GM, wrote the check the germans wouldn't have much of a choice would they ?
Rocky
Rocky
Apparently the Cadillac CTS-V is coming here next year.
You want to know the funny thing about the Saabs?
They have Holden engines in them!
Alloytec 3.2 is made in Melbourne, then they are shipped to Sven who adds the turbo bits on.
Same with the latest V6 Alfa, it also has an Alloytec 3.2.
Also that new Soft roader you have there, here it's called the Captiva.
It's a Daiwoo with the same Alloytec 3.2.
Rocky
I went to that 2011 Lecerne thread like you asked.
Good job on posting the pics.
I think I may have cleared the air in there
Check it out.
Rocky
Pontiac- I think undercutting the TL/G35 in price is exactly what needs to happen, and the same for the M.
Saab- Of course they dont have the prestige now to compete. But, IMO up until a few years ago, most GM brands did not have the prestige to compete in their segments (Caddy, Chevy, Saturn, Buick, Pontiac). I feel like that's the one niche GM is not playing in and with that Aero Concept thats an area they can go into.
Cadillac- I love caddy as much as the next guy, but Caddy has a long way to go in their segment as well. I figure when we have a DTS competing with the S-Class for real, they will be just about there. For prestige, I'm not sure Caddy is above Audi. And I know sales-wise they are above Jag, but Jag definately has an image of prestige and I want Cadillac to regain theirs.