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Yeah but you have to admit GM did get a fair amount of attention by NBC at the Detroit auto show. I think the reason why GM has gotten alot of negative press is because of their financial situtation. I did see where you wrote not until the past two years nobody really payed attention to GM. Thats not true GM did get alot of attention in 01-02 because their sales were up big time after Sept 11th, 2001(WTC) and their market share was up in 2002-2003 from where it was in 2001 I think. Finally, GM did sell alot of cars in the 80's despite Toyota's and Honda's presence a that time. GM sold 5 million cars in the US in 1994 too.
According to this site, Autoweek is saying around 16K msrp to start( probably 5 door, since the 3 door is being otuted as a sportier model).
Here's hoping that AW is correct.
Anyway, I feel for you because of the attack that's sure to come tomorrow. Got your flameproof suit on?
BTW in response to an earlier post (not yours), the WIC program dates back to the 60s -- it didn't start in "Hillary's" administration. IMO, this is a worthwhile program that provides much-needed nutrition assistance for women, infants, and children living in poverty right here in the USA.
Well I want to give you my congrats.
Rocky
Motor Trend is often pretty accurate on their predictions from leakers.
They say by 2011' the Lucerne will be RWD and it's in the March issue.
Rocky
Ummmm wait a minute here. Last time I checked Toyota, was the one being investigated for hiding recalls for 8 long years.
I never criticized GM plastics, but come to think about it, I seemed to have problems with various little knobs, levers, and other pieces that would break off in my 2002 Pontiac. At least on my Honda's they are just cheap looking but stay intact.
We are suppose to believe you owned a 2002 pontiac ? I will not call you a liar but the fact that you didn't even list the model raises eyebrows about the credibility of that.
Rocky
Well it would be nice if this forum wasn't filled with posters spewing yellow belly propoganda. I'd like to talk about issues relating to GM, instead we have to hear how great Toyota and Honda are in what is suppose to be a GM, focused forum.
Rocky
Rocky
So you also must believe it's okay for the Chinese lobby congress because they have 6,000 front company's here in the U.S. and own most of our T-Bonds. The Russians also own a good deal of them (I think 2nd) and thus they should be able to dictate domestic policy. I assume you think it's okay for Dubai, Iraq, Iran, etc to lobby congress because they have a vested interest in this country with oil. Does Afghanistan, get those rights also to lobby congress because the majority of their Opium sales end up here in the U.S. :confuse:
Rocky, I respect you as a poster on this board but I disagree with you on this.
I know I went off the deep end to prove my point but where do you draw the line carguy58 ???? I personally don't think any foreign entity has a right to determine our country's future. BTW- I respect your opinion but feel for national security reasons you are wrong.
Like I said before, GM sells cars overseas just like honda and Toyota sell cars out of their home country.
Does GM, get to lobby the Japanese government ????
Ummmmm, No!!!!
Does GM, lobby the Chinese government ? Yeah they have boughten the commies off. Just Curious-I don't see what GM, selling a car in a foreign country has to do with lobbying here in the states ????
Rocky
Well I've heard quite the opposite from camcord fans. The ones I've spoken to on these boards and other sites some have said that they see cost cutting in the Camry's interior for 07' and thought the last generation Camry was higher quality.
Rocky
As I've said before we can specifically thank a few posters..... :sick:
Rocky
You just have to take a buick, for a test drive and it's as easy as that. I'm not elegible for it because of my GM connection.
Rocky
Rocky
Do they have a Toyota Landcruiser Prado 4wd over there?
Bloody things sell like crazy here.
Also, That Tundra thing looks ok, but do you have the Hilux there as well?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Did you check out that VE burnout vid?
Funny stuff I thought, what with the neighbour going nuts in the background.
All 3 are very popular here.
http://lc100.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Gallery/0,4667,1998_704,00.html
http://prado.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/Gallery/0,4667,1725_582,00.html
As a Dodge owner for over 10 years, this certainly gives me the heebie-jeebies from a "fan" standpoint, but strategically, it might make sense. The Chrysler nameplate is certainly doing better than Buick, and Dodge is doing better than Pontiac. Chevy could drop the HHR since the original PT Cruiser would now be in-house. GM would gain the minivans it could never build on its own, and there would be the return of Jeep to an American owner (that was an issue for Jeep fans). GM would have a full portfolio of modern engines and transmissions when the best of both were combined.
The conflicts would be notable, though:
- Corvette vs Viper
- Camaro vs Challenger
and the big one...
- Silverado/Sierra vs Ram
As a truck owner, that last one means a lot. The Dodge Ram far exceeds GMC Sierra sales, but would GM really want to completely different truck platforms, or would they split the difference by making the Silverado the "consumer"truck with the lighter duty models, and the Ram as the commercial truck with the heavy-duty chassis and the coveted Cummins diesel...
We will all just have to wait and see, but this will be fun to speculate.
kcram - Pickups Host
What would GM do with two full-size trucks?
Would GM get to keep the 300/Charger, and what happens when it needs to be redesigned (bye bye Mercedes chassis???)? Would these vehicles have any future divorced of DCX?
The only vehicles of certain added value would be the Jeep Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler, and the minivans....the rest add nothing to GM's lineup.
After all of the talk of how GM needs to drop brands, why would they consider adding more brands (especially ones that only compete with what they already have, not the Japanses/Koreans)? It seems to go against all logic.
Chrysler will get sold to the Chinese in the end, I am becoming more and more convinced.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the other points:
kcram: The Chrysler nameplate is certainly doing better than Buick, and Dodge is doing better than Pontiac.
But GM can't afford to drop any nameplates. It cost GM billions to drop Oldsmobile, and it can't afford to spend that kind of money to buy out Buick and Pontiac dealers. If GM were crazy enough to buy Chrysler, it would end up with Chrysler and Dodge and Buick and Pontiac. GM already has too many brands and models; the last thing it needs is more of either.
kcram: Chevy could drop the HHR since the original PT Cruiser would now be in-house.
But GM would still have the plant capacity to build the HHR. The last thing GM needs is more unused capacity.
kcram: GM would have a full portfolio of modern engines and transmissions when the best of both were combined.
I can't really think of any Chrysler power plants that are superior to their GM counterparts. The Hemi is a triumph of marketing over engineering...I'd take the big GM V-8s anyday. The GM 3.6 ohc V-6 is superior to any V-6 from Chrysler, just as the GM Ecotech four is better than its Chrysler counterparts.
kcram: GM would gain the minivans it could never build on its own, and there would be the return of Jeep to an American owner (that was an issue for Jeep fans).
Gaining the minivans (selling them as Chevrolets and Saturns) and the Jeep nameplate would be the only pluses from this move that I can see for GM.
GCM ????? SRT-10 Corvette anybody ? V-16 Viper anyone. Hemi Silverado anyone ? Cummins GMC 3/4 ton ? or will it be a Caterpillar diesel Suburban ?
This is the greatest news in the world.....
Rocky
Rocky
- Camaro vs Challenger Two different animals. The Challenger is the missing big coupe GM always needed. The Camaro, gives Chrysler the pony car that can handle like the Mustang
- Silverado/Sierra vs Ram
I'd have the Duramax Silverado and Caterpillar/Cummins Ram. I'd make GMC move up market and build luxury trucks. I'd make a 3/4 Duramax/Cummins/CAT Denali Truck. The GMC brand would have off-road capability's that the on-road Cadillac is missing and the GMC brand would tackle import buyers.
Rocky
Rocky
If Chrysler is under the GM umbrella then they are going to be just as molested as Isuzu, Saab, and (thankfully not anymore) Subaru would have been. Some of us don't worship to the alter of Garbage Motors Rocky. We can think for ourselves thank you very much.
You've never have given me a good reason why you hate GM, so much. I guess everyone hates someone and GM, is your enemy.
Rocky
Whether you agree or disagree with the company's business plan, this discussion will be focused on how the company can improve, not on how much you may hate it and want it to fail.
Would it be a wise move for GM, to buy Chrysler Corp and turn them around instead of giving it to the Chinese which has plans to use the company to import Chinese Made Dodges ?
How much money will it cost GM ? Can they buy Chrysler cheap ? Would this move help GM, more rapidly gain access to platforms they need ? Owning Dodge Trucks, eliminates a big business partner. They could have the freshest Truck market in the world with Chevy and Dodge alternating remodels/refresh's GMC can focus on tackling imports like Toyota, Honda, Nissan Truck division. I see lots of benefits. GM, would get back it's other partner of it's 2-mode hybrid system and only will have to share with BMW.
Rocky
Chevy/Dodge- could be the high volume car trucks for GCM and share platforms. (easy brand merge)
Hummer/Jeep under one roof- be the off road group for enthusiasts.
Put Saturn/GMC/Pontiac-Under same roof.
Cadillac/Buick-under same roof
How would you guys do it ?
Rocky
Rocky
GM has entered Jeep's turf very successfully with the Hummer line-up, and they really don't even need the Jeep nameplate anymore. Hummer has its own "tuff guy" credentials with the off-road crowd.
As others have stated, there would be no advantage for GM to add more models to their line-up. If they kept the Chrysler car and truck lines ups, they'd have the costs of essentially running two companies that compete with each other. If they consolidate the two, they'd be accused of badge engineering again.
Assuming that they did buy Chrysler and decide to close redundant plants, they'd face labor problems with the UAW.
Who would lose their jobs? The workers who make the PT Cruiser or the workers who make the HHR? The workers who make the Cobalt, or the workers who make the Caliber?
They don't need two Halo cars. The Corvette has a bigger following than the Viper, and it's profitable now.
I think that GM could do much better taking the same money that buying Chrysler would cost, and using that cash for product development. They're on the way back now, going off in a new direction would only slow them down.
Rocky
The Caliber is a SUV and the Cobalt, is a car thus it's not a direct competitor. I do see your point but having access to the Dodge name means high volume car sales like Chevy. Chrysler, would be a lot like Buick but instead of making Buick RWD, they could just keep Chrysler, RWD and position it up to where GM, wanted to take Buick. GM, could keep the Jeep Cherokee and scrap the Trailblazer/Envoy that they wanted to get rid of any ways. GM, also would have access to Chrysler's Minivan market and could benefit from Caliber technology and improve those small utes by giving them a decent interior and throwing in hybrid engines. I see potential but I honestly don't think this will actually happen. I'm afraid the Chinese will get their hands on it and will cause havoc. :sick:
Rocky
1. Caliber is not an SUV. It is a compact hatchback like the Matrix (they are virtually identical in size in fact). Both it and the Cobalt are strong fleet faves, although I think the Caliber actually does a little better in retail sales. But who cares - HHR is an acceptable substitute for Caliber, and if you want to add a model, add a Cobalt 5-door.
2. "The Dodge name means high volume like Chevy" - what it means is heavy-duty fleet sales, especially to rental fleets. Retail sales of Dodges aren't very high. What's the point in buying into a fleet brand?
3. "They could reposition Chrysler where they always wanted to take Buick" - geez, why not just do this with the Buick brand?
4. GM wants nothing to do with the Grand Cherokee, which since the gas price spikes has had some of the industry's highest cash incentives on the hood, even as sales plummeted and they piled up on every vacant lot in town.
5. The Chinese are in a position to do A LOT MORE with Chrysler than GM is, and what's more it will benefit them a lot more. It would just be the anchor around GM's latest turnaround plan.
And bottom line, there is nothing that buying Chrysler could accomplish that GM can't accomplish on its own with its myriad brands.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
Rocky
The Swedish automaker says the new concept "showcases the first production-based engine to be optimized for pure bioethanol (E100) fuel." Saab blends turbocharging and high-octane E100 in a 2.0-liter engine from the 9-5 to churn out 300 horses and 295 pound-feet of torque. The engine management system and internal components have been modified, allowing the use of greater boost pressure with a raised compression ratio. In effect, the concept has the power characteristics of a naturally aspirated 4.0-liter engine, Saab said.
Performance numbers are impressive. The BioPower 100 Concept sprints from zero to 62 mph in 6.6 seconds and 50-75 mph (5th gear) in 8.2 seconds.
Saab's latest concept is described as "an evolution of the Saab 9-5 SportCombi," with exterior and interior styling tweaks.
What this means to you: Saab takes another step toward providing a small, alt-fuel eng
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119597
What this means to me: Looks like Saab, will end up being not only GM's green est brand but very well the green est brand in the world with a performance punch. :shades:
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119598
Rocky
I doubt it would help the Chinese all that much to buy old plants with unionized employees and a product that isn't turning a profit.
The Chinese would do better to build their own plants, and unique products. Might take about ten years to comete with gm, but still they would be much stronger than buying a failing company. Heck, they could just allow chrysler to go bankrupt and buy the brand name.
As for GM, if they are smart they will let this one go. Buying any company at this time would likely just make things worse for gm. If GM were performing strongly maybe it would make sense, but otherwise nope.
I'd keep doing what they're already doing with the midsize cars. Make them even more high-quality than the Camry, but unlike Toyota, give 'em a lot of flash and dash. Shoot, I remember when even an average Joe could have a beautiful car in an Impala, Galaxie, or Fury. Why can't it be that way today. Back in the 1960s, being seen in a car like a Camry was like being seen in a Rambler.
I'd keep doing what they're doing with Cadillac - make it GM's Mercedes/BMW. They have to do something with the DTS. Not that I think it's a bad car, but other idiots point at it like it's a relic driven by doddering old men. I'd make the car rwd/awd and a nice powertrain to boot. Heck, why not a DTS-V?
Buick has the potential to be GM's Lexus and I'd keep moving in that direction. Shoot, they should offer it's NA customers the beautiful cars they sell in China. Heck, when I saw that Chinese LaCrosse, who needs a Cadillac?
Pontiac should become the total performance division it once was back in the 1960s.
I would also keep improving the trucks. The Silverado already is the nicest truck out there. It blows away the Tundra. I'd make the Silverado and its GMC twin so nice, that Toyota or Nissan couldn't ever touch it.
Your vision of GM, is exactly the way I feel. We've all seen the Chine cars GM, builds and they are beautiful and should be brought over here and built for this market. I think the loaded up Chinese LaCrosee like we saw is like $42,000 american and I have no doubt that GM, could get that price over here if they built one like it. I'd also bring over the RWD Buick Royaum or Holden Statesman and make that my Buick Lucerne. I'd give it the new "Ultra" V8 with 385 hp. and sell it for $47,900 w/ RWD & $49,900 with AWD and it would undercut the Lexus LS 460 by several thousands and be profitable for GM, at the same time.
If the Royaum, was the next Lucerne GM, could bring over the Holden Statesman and make that the next RWD Bonneville. It wouldn't have the wood like the Royaum because people don't want as much luxury touches in a Bonneville, but it would be as high quality with soft plastic and quality rubber with aluminum trim and a meaty engine like the 6.2 VVT V8 and a 6 speed automatic and a optional manual transmission for hardcore drivers.
What about those apples Lemko ????? :shades: I think I proposed another fix to the Pontiac line-up.
Rocky