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This vid is a ripper.
Doing a burnout in a new VE in his driveway at home.
Sounds fantastic.
Check this, look a little familiar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmpk2yXN8Bc&mode=related&search=
Source: Business Wire Date: February 08, 2007
DETROIT--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 8, 2007--Autoline Detroit makes automotive
history this weekend by broadcasting the first-ever joint television
interview with the Vice Presidents of Communications for the Detroit
Three. The program featuring Steve Harris of General Motors, Charlie
Holleran of Ford Motor Company and Jason Vines of Chrysler Group was
recorded in two 30-minute segments recently on location at the Automotive
Hall of Fame in Dearborn, Mich.
"Bringing these three positions together for an interview is an important
first for the industry," said Autoline Detroit host John McElroy. "These
men and their departments, in many ways, set the image of the
corporation," McElroy added, "and that may explain why they have been
given a greater role in the boardroom today then their predecessors were
in the past."
Some of the topics covered by the panel in this two-part special edition
of Autoline Detroit include: communications strategy, crisis management
and the explosion of new media. "The Communicators" Part 1 will premier
nationally Sunday, February 11, 2007 at 7:30 a.m. EST on SPEED, and 10:30
a.m. EST in Southeastern Michigan and throughout Canada on Detroit Public
Television, WTVS Channel 56. Part 2 will premier the following week on
Sunday, February 18, 2007 at the same times.
Rocky
This does not apply in all situations. Most people believe that BMW makes better cars than Toyota but Toyota has far bigger share in this market. Many people believe Apple makes better computers than PC maufactureres but they have less than 10% of the market for various reasons. Point being marketshare and "best product" are not always directly related. When GM sold way more cars than Toyota that does NOT mean that GM's models were superior. It just meant that many americans bought a GM model by default and wouldnt consider Toyotas. That has changed now and Toyota and Honda cars are now default purchases for many Americans based on perceived reliability and resale value. Doesn't mean those cars are always the best on the market. The Passat is a far nicer car than the camry or Accord but it doesnt match their sales or even come close because it lacks the brand image of the Japanese cars.
""I dont care what Toyota's share is today, it doesnt make the majority of their vehicles desirable."
Exactly the point I am making, only that is my perceived opinion of Big 3 products. "
No, you dont get it. My point was many of the owners of Toyota products as well as the press acknowldge they dont find their cars exciting in any way. People advocate buying Toyotas because it's the safe decision. It has nothing to do with value, performance or styling in most cases.
In case you missed it I was comparing the Acadia to the NEW highlander just introduced at Chicago. If you compare the pics and specs on the vehicles you will see they are very evenly matched. The Acadia's interior is just as nice, it has a 6 speed tranny and offers all the features found on the Highlander except keyless go. These are two brand new SUVs from GM and TOyota and they are essentially equal in every important category except interior space in which the Acadia wins handily. I do not see how this is an unfair comparison since they will be in the very same cost bracket.
"Really revolutionary ahead of the class... right. "
actually several reviews have stated the Outlook/Acadia are best in class. Believe it or not there are auto reviews outside of edmunds. Check out C&D, MT and newspaper reviews on the internet. It's amazing that people like you refuse to acknowledge that GM makes ANYTHING that is competitive or desirable. YOu have no idea how immature it is to come on here and disregard facts and independent reviews and tell us that everything GM makes stinks and is inferior to Toyota/Honda. It's just not true.
HSV did make a 7.0 LS-7 Monaro here in AUS.
Very limited build though.
Also, the last Monaros in the UK are fitted with a Harrops supercharger.
I'll try and find the vid for you.
Rocky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp7xt2nqdAc
newsflash: people who buy Silerados are unlikely to be die hard Toyota fans with a Prius in the driveway. Attacking an ad campaign is one of the silliest ways to criticize a car company. YOU dont like the ads and that is fine, but dont be naive enough to think that those patriotic ads wont appeal to pickup owners. Are you confident that those "terrible" patriotic ads will hurt silverado sales? Do you honestly think a guy whos been driving TOyotas and has a Rav4 in his garage would buy a Silverado if it wasnts for those darned ads? To be honest, I find it laughable that some people care more about the image projected in the ads than the product. I cant take people seriously if they say they wouldnt consider a Silverado STRICTLY because the ad theme is too Red Statish for them. I could care less how a vehicle is advertised if I like the vehicle.
You seem to be suggesting that import buyers are too good and too intelligent to buy a product with a "pro America" theme. I find that to be a little presumptious to say the least. In case you missed it, the second phase of the Silverado ad campaign talks about features and fuel economy, you know things that savvy import owners can understand. BTW, you could always get the Sierra if you are offended by Silverado ads.
Personally, aside from Lexus ads I think most Toyota/Honda ads are lame and tell me NOTHING about the car. Honda's ads are wastes of money because they are all about cuteness (CR-V ads are the worst) and have no information. That doesnt mean I wouldnt buy a Honda though.
"This would give Toyota an overall fleet sales rate of somewhere around 10-12%, I would imagine. I doubt we will see that rise much. "
I wouldnt count on that at all. If you are going to be America's car company, which Toyota will be very soon, you have to address all segments of the market. I wouldnt be surprised if we start seeing Toyota cabs and police cars in the next few years. Toyota will start selling to fleets in greater numbers because its the next step in their marketshare expansion. They want share and they want to beat GM and I dont see Toyota turning down any opportunities.
Watch for that “tone” or the raised eyebrow!
Also it's "Lambda," not "Lamda." Just sayin'.
Not the host obviously, but let's lighten up, please.
Rocky
All this Toyota stuff is boring the crap out of me.
Thought I'd liven things up a bit with a few vids.
Hope you like them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7UlbwH9zo&mode=related&search=
Well, there is a happy medium between GO GM cheerleading and vicious backstabbing.
Now I must really get back to work. So shall I expect another 100 posts by evening?
BTW, thanks Holdenguy, but I'm pretty sure YouTube is blocked from my workplace, so I'll have to wait till I'm home.
Please note that I didn't start the comparison of the Highlander with the new Acadia.
By bringing up the price differential, I'm pointing out that:
1. these two vehicles apparently don't directly compete with each other; and
2. that the Acadia is considerably more expensive than the Highlander, so it SHOULD be a superior vehicle.
1487: The bottom line is this: I don't want to keep beating this "currency manipulation" drum but the fact remains that Toyota, can sell for significantly less and still make the same profit margin as GM, who has to sell for more to make a decent profit margin. If Congress fixes this advantage Toyota, will have to do one of two things.
All countries manipulate their currency, including the U.S. Toyota's main advantage stems from more efficient factories and better attention to detail in the production process.
1487: I'm sure Toyota, has opened up their cash coffers to congress. I hope the Big 3 and the UAW closely examine where and to whom that money flows to and creates bad publicity for those policitians receiving dirty money.
It is not against the law for a company, group or union to give money to a political candidate, as long as the rules and regulations are followed.
Otherwise, the UAW would be the entity in big trouble, as it not only gives money to candidates, but also foot soldiers and assistance throughout the campaign and on campaign day.
The problem isn't that Toyota has bought off members of Congress. The problem is that over 50 percent of the American car buying public have effectively "fired" GM, Ford, Chrysler and the UAW, and it will take a gigantic effort to win some of them back.
Building better products will do it, which will require new thinking in the board room, more efficient factories with more discipline on the factory floor, and a realistic health plan for blue collar members.
Spinning tales of conspiracy theories involving currency manipulation, government corruption or media brainwashing will be greeted with a big yawn by satisfied Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW and Mercedes owners.
If someone gives a little "pot stirring" over in Toyota Problems and Repairs about how history has shown problems with sludge, recalls hidden by Toyota for how many years, and transmission design problems permeating Toyota's 3 lines, the host shoos them off so the discussion can stay on topic and be positive.
Here the pot stirrers are okay and tell the GM people they are doing something wrong. Think there's a problem?
Rock: re the plant tour: the robots make it very easy for the workers at each station to do their jobs rapidly, do them well, and consistently for quality as the skillet passes their station. I certainly don't want all people replaced by robots. But compared to the robots when I took the earlier plant tour in 1983??? soon after it opened when the plant was not in operation, these are probably better than foreign companies with newly built plants. I already stated the workers were happy based on body language and interactions with each other and in some cases with the person on the tour--me. There also was a concentrated effort to stay focused on their job and error-free. The tour person stated most have less than 10 seconds between tasks-efficiency, efficiency, efficiency. They are earning the wages.
As I said I'm working on seeing the Camry plant in the South (Georgetown, KY). And probably the Nissan Smyrna plant tour which is only on Tuesday IIRC the next time we visit our friends in Smyrna.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Clarification needed: Are you saying there is absolutely no effect from each of the above?
1) There is no currency problem (China included).
2) There is no media, group or individual bias.
3) There is no government corruption? (I'll let that include state governments which in my humble Ohio opinion can be even more insidiously violated than the federal government.)
I don't think you mean that having read your posts before, but I want to hear it with my own eyes.
To be clear I believe these are all factors, good and bad, in GM's recovery along with GM's own responsibilities for sins past, present, and hopefully not future.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You are incorrect. Plant efficiency amongst the Big 3 and Toyota/HOnda are very close these days. GM plants are the most efficient in NA in certain categories. I think Nissan is actually the best overall in terms of fewest hours per vehicle in a NA plant. TOyota's price advantages come from having no legacy costs, fewer retirees, etc. It's a nice try though but GM/Ford can never be in the same situation as Toyota in terms of fixed cost. Things will be better in the future when a lot of retired UAW members have passed away, but that is a long time from now.
"Building better products will do it, which will require new thinking in the board room, more efficient factories with more discipline on the factory floor, and a realistic health plan for blue collar members. "
Better products are here and on the way (for GM at least) as is new thinking. Again, people come here and post but no nothing about GM other than they have lost marketshare and lost money. Changes have been underway at GM for 5 years in terms of design philosophy, global organization and other aspects of the business. The "old" thinking you are criticizing repeatedly is being phased out. I have a feeling you know little about what happens on a GM factory floor but if I'm wrong please elaborate on the sloppy work habits you seem to be aware of. check the Habour reports on domestic factory efficiency before complaining about lazy american workers. GM and Chrysler do quite well in plant efficiency.
"The problem is that over 50 percent of the American car buying public have effectively "fired" GM, Ford, Chrysler and the UAW"
According to this logic 84% of Americans have effectively "fired" or wont consider Toyota products. YOu are saying the BIg 3 are failures with 50% of the market but Toyota is #1 in the hearts and minds of the American public with 16% share. I dont get it. You also fail to realize that many people own a domestic SUV/truck and an import car so the notion that people who own imports NEVER consider domestic models is rubbish.
Since you seem to be a marketshare expert I am curious as to the marketshare of domestic trucks/SUVS/crossovers. I am pretty sure it's far more than 50%. The big 3 have struggled in cars recently and that is really the heart of their marketshare erosion in the past decade. When you say 50% of the public has fired the BIg 3 you are obviously ignoring the substantial advantage they have in SUVs and trucks. Imports lead in crossovers but with the lambdas, Edge/MKX, Caliber, Compass, Patriot, '08 VUe, etc. Detroit is gunning for that market big time. domestics dominate in pickups, large SUVs and body on fram midsize SUVs.
That's overdoing it for Buick, I think. The Lexus feel is a good target, but the Ultra needs to stay exclusive to Cadillac and the price is about $10k too high for Buick. I'd make the Lucerne a rebadged WM Statesman with the L98 V8 (same as the G8) and optional AWD for colder climes, selling in the upper 30s-low 40s. I'd save the gadgets and Ultra V8 for a RWD DTS derived from the HSV Grange, selling in the upper 40s-mid 50s.
What yen-dollar exchange rate would be "fair" to both the United States and Japan, and what conditions would make it so?
Last time I checked, Hyundai had a higher retention rate than GM (though the General was #2 or 3 IIRC).
1) There is no currency problem (China included).
2) There is no media, group or individual bias.
3) There is no government corruption? (I'll let that include state governments which in my humble Ohio opinion can be even more insidiously violated than the federal government.)
Let me clarify:
1. GM's problems are not cause by currency manipulation. As I said, ALL countries, including the U.S., manipulate their currency. But GM can't point to manipulation of the yen by the Japanese government as the root of its problems.
GM's problems have been building for years; now the chickens have come home to roost. First GM was insulated by the good cars it built in the 1960s early 1970s (despite what you read on this board, many buyers were willing to forgive one bad experience with a GM car); then by its sheer size; finally by the SUV and light truck boom. By 2001, it had run out of saviors.
2. Is there media bias? In the general media - some, but not enough to explain GM's current troubles. And the media is lazy. For example, the Vega was a dog, but the Oldsmobile Cutlasses (actually, all of the full-size, intermediate and compact cars from GM) of that time were not. But the media forgets to make that distinction, and paints all GM vehicles from an era with a broad brush.
In the enthusiast media - yes, there is a bias in favor of a certain type of vehicle, and it is not the type of vehicle GM makes.
In some ways this is unfair. Car & Driver, given the choice between a BMW and a Buick, will always favor the BMW. It is not fair to say that the Buick is "bad" or "junk," as some buyers want what a Buick offers, and don't care for the driving characteristics of a BMW.
BUT, if buyers are abandoning GM models for import models - as has been happening in several segments - and GM then builds a DIRECT competitor, and said competitor is not as good as the import target, and the magazine's testers say so, that is NOT bias. Especially when testers working at different organizations or publications reach the same verdict. The fact that a Cobalt places behind the Civic in virtually every test I've read is not the result of bias.
3. Of course there is government corruption. I just do not believe that Toyota or Honda funneling money to members of Congress - or even state legislatures - is a story waiting to happen, or even the reason for their success.
Also, it is not against the law for any corporation - including Toyota - to make campaign contributions to a legislator. The UAW does this, too. If anything, the UAW is MORE involved with this sort of thing at both the federal and state level. But it isn't illegal for the UAW to do it, either.
If anything, I'd look first at the UNIONS as a source of government corruption. Come to Pennsylvania, and I'll tell you some stories of government corruption, starting in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh...
I stick by my previous contention though: Hyundai will happily fill this gap after Chrysler figures out it had better follow GM and Ford's lead and get out of the massive fleet sales biz. And then the Chinese will want a piece of that action in 5-10 years too.
As for my mention of the Silverado ads, I wasn't referring specifically to that model at all, but rather to the idea that GM continues its ad themes based on the passion of their product, while the folks NOT buying American are a passionless bunch in many cases, appliance buyers. GM could do a great deal to address that group's concerns about American cars with numbers and "logical" advertisement.
Mention has been made here of the "default buyer" in America as often as not buying Japanese now rather than American. I just meant to say that GM will not woo those "default buyers" back with great product alone, they will need to appeal to the reason of those people and prove to them that GM is the wisest choice.
As for pro America, anti America, whatever, haven't the folks that have moved away from American cars demonstrated at least a little bit that they don't care that much about a product's origins? People buy third-world-made clothing and appliances every day, even the folks buying GM cars. I DO NOT WISH to restart that trail of tears here at the GM thread - suffice it to say that there are a few people searching desperately for American-made products when they shop, and a few more who buy Chinese and Malaysian but wish like CRAZY there were American products available, yes yes, we hear you. Point is, point of origin is not important enough to the non-GM buyers to sell American to them, I don't think. GM in fact does have some things it COULD advertise to them, but it isn't doing it. I think it could and should. What's the point of having neat stuff like reduced warranty claims and Chevy Volts if you don't blitz the airwaves to let Toyota buyers know, eh? ;-)
Now, if you think Silverado owners need to be reminded to make their next truck a Silverado again with the "our America" ads, then that's fine. GM has plenty of money for more than one set of ads. And I suppose this type of ad might make a few F-150 owners think twice about making their next truck a Ford. I want to emphasize I never had any problem with that ad. But Honda ads regularly over the years emphasize fuel economy and highest resale in the biz, with always some "cute" thrown in for the smaller models. There's not much emotion, and a whole lot of numbers in their advertising. That is the type of advertising that might tear import buyers out of their favorite make and into a GM car or truck, were GM to give it a try. They have made much of their warranty claims rate being way down the last few years, now how about putting THAT message out on the airwaves?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That works for you, but not for everyone. Toyota/Honda dont mention features or attributes in most of their ads and people still flock to their products. Many of Chevy's ads talk about features, fuel economy and the new warranty. Does that work for you? A lot of GM bashers ridicule GM for talking about vehicles getting over 30mpg because they say that isnt anything to brag about since "many" TOyota models get 40mpg. Each person has their own opinion about ads but there is no consensus. Besides, with the internet available we can all get all the facts we need about particular vehicle. A TV ad's job is to make you aware of a certain product, the website can do the rest.
"But Honda ads regularly over the years emphasize fuel economy and highest resale in the biz, with always some "cute" thrown in for the smaller models. "
what else would HOnda advertise? Those two attributes are generally the only reason to buy a HOnda. As I said, the GM truck/SUV ads DO mention fuel economy and Chevy (and others) ALWAYS talk about how their trucks are the longest lasting and most dependable in the market. The ads you speak of do exist, you just have to pay attention. I have seen DOZENS of ads for the Tahoe/Avalance talking about the best in class hp and economy.
I too checked out the Tundra and it's interior is over the top and full of hard plastics. The knobs are huge, the design theme is all over the place and certain controls are so far away the driver cant reach them. It had no more hard plastic than the GM trucks, but the design was far less refined and full of afterthoughts.
However, I agree with you that when one considers all of the media, they are not biased. I read Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Automobile and Road & Track. They seem to say more or less the same thing if you read the whole article with an open mind.
Gee, you are making a lot of assumptions about what I would do :P
According to you people no one should buy a Hyundai or VW or MB product because they had problems in the past.
I never said that, where did you get that impression? You didn't address my statement - is it not logical that people burned on one of their biggest purchases might be reluctant to return to brands that gave them trouble? This is not about me, this is about the market. I don't know why you're personalizing it.
ONly one problem, there isnt a consensus in the media on most domestic products. I notice people here ususally quote edmunds and C&D when they want to illustrate how bad domestic vehicles are. When you look at other sources you will often find that the same vehicles those publications find lacking are praised. The Aura is a classic example, neither edmunds or C&D liked the Aura too much and someone here quoted the edmunds review to "prove" the Aura is a piece of crap. That is edmunds' take (not surprising) but autoweek, motorweek, MT, Automobile, the people voting for NACTY, consumerauto guide, etc. do not agree. They all said the car was near best in class, if not best in class. The usual suspects rarely have anything positive to say about domestic vehicles and if they are your only point of reference you will find plenty of evidence that imports are always superior. Once you step away from those sources, you'll find a different story. Hey Edmunds and C&D may not be biased, but their findings often run contrary to what other sources say about domestic vehicles. In fact C&D and edmunds almost always mirror each other and are consistently unimpressed by anything coming out of Detroit not called Vette or 300C. Heck, the editor in chief of Edmunds even told me he isnt impressed by the vette and said it was cheap and unrefined.
The cobalt and new civic have never been compared as far as I know. I know the two have never been compared in the monthly mags. Please cite some examples where the civic beat the lowly cobalt.
I just watched the plant tour video for Toyota Georgetown. Amazing how apple pie, downhome Kentucky folks, racing horses in the Kentucky Bluegrass region where they just took up lots of acres for grazing land, and American it all seems in the video. At least it's not the typical Camry driving smoothly down a suburban street followed by a sequence of other Toyota products in a rather bland advertisement I see on area TV.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But there are plenty of other numbers they could advertise. I am just talking about having more "technical" ads, that's all.
And you and I will have to agree to disagree concerning "what else would HOnda advertise? Those two attributes are generally the only reason to buy a HOnda."
Put the Civic and Cobalt back to back, put the Fit and Aveo back to back, put the CRV or Pilot and Equinox back to back, put the Accord and Malibu back to back, and, well......we will just have to agree to disagree, as I said. :-P
Ads concerning the new GM warranty, of course, will hit home with shoppers who don't consider GM. That's a good idea. Longest-lasting - I have seen those over the years, but only ever applied to trucks. If that's true for cars too, they should put that out there IN SPADES.
Now, if advertising is not the way for GM to get import buyers to look at GM vehicles, than I am certainly open to what else might be the way. That's what I mean, creativity is needed here (and it's probably not my strongest suit! :-)). One thing I always thought was a great idea was the GM Auto Show in Motion. I liked going and driving the cars around a bunch of times, and it's a great way for people to compare GM to non-GM vehicles back to back on the same streets. How do they determine who gets invited to that anyway?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Do you have a link? I would like to learn more about that. I am not quite sure what you are saying though - have they set a new goal of reducing parts costs by $300 million a year? Or over a set period of time, or what?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Not sure about this past year but Oshawa 1 or 2 have been #1 in the 3 years before.
Yes, Buick can use the Zeta architecture but it had better be styled for American tastes. I really doubt the Enclave could have been designed for Austrailia (hey, Holden guy please chime in here!) and it is a beautiful car (and not per me, per all the press and comments)
Rocky, I am not saying Buick cannot sell beautiful/Luxury/premium cars and trucks. that is what thye are doing. They just cannot sell at Caddillac and Lexus prices. Believe me, I wanted to design/sell the LaCrosse at ES content/price but it was not gonna happen on the W car platform. Now the Eps 2 will be better but no matter what was done to the vehicle it is not gonna get $40k. It can still be beautiful/luxury/premium.
Now I did not come up with that number. I just read it in the press. So who knows for sure but the quote I saw looked pretty informed since it was a delta over time.
Teh skilled trades may remove when doing there jobs but just holding a screw gun is not that dangerous. In fact today there are no dangerous jobs anymore.
You will read more about this in hte next week.
Hmmm. This is what we got:
This is what they got:
No it isn't. We don't host "fan-only boards." It's a place to discuss GM in general, and all points of view are welcome.
Having said that, it IS about GM, and not about Toyota or any other manufacturer. Several posts have been removed. We need to stay focused on news & views about GM.
And please let's stay clear of "trolling." If you're considering posting something for the express purpose of getting under another member's skin, then just... DON'T.
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