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Comments
Are you serious ? I didn't know they made GM Goodwrench parts in China ? I guess I never took a close look at them and just assumed they were made here. That is sad.
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Depends on whether it is "hidden" (Chinese Dodge Hornets sold in the U.S. with no cue to the fact except a location of manufacture sticker, widely ignored by buyers) or "out there" (brand name on the dealership is Geely or SAIC).
And of course, if the first Geelys are just as reliable as Hyundais for half the price, I think quick acceptance will be widespread (and there goes Hyundai, and Chrysler, and...?)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
Rocky
It would also show up in the first character of the VIN, but almost no one pays any attention to those either.
I've gotta tell you, there is one company that swayed my opinion of their products from no-way-would-I-ever to perhaps-I-should-at-least look based on their customer appreciation attitude at a chat.
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I remember those cars pal !!!! They were designed a little bit like the Reliant? my aunt had. Brain fuzz.
-Rocky
Reliant was Plymouth's K-car.
Rocky
Rocky
Oh, and I forgot to mention Korea - I think more and more small cars and crossovers sold in the States under domestic brands will be built in South Korea. Rock, do you object to Korean-built like you object to China-built? I am just curious.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now back to the serious. Is Hyundai company not getting some serious overlap of same product selling Kia and Hyundai pretty much same market cars and SUVs? Wonder if they could not simply convert all the dealerships to Hyundai. Are there that many loyal Kia fans? The dealerships seem to be as rare as Saturn, or even more rare a find, the Mitsubishi dealer. I would think the strength in numbers would help. I am afraid that Kia is gonna be lost along the way. Smaller numbers of say a dealership for Range Rover makes sense, but for an econo car line, I can't see it surviving.
As for Saturn, I would say since it will be getting an import now from Opel division, one could stretch out the thinking here and go all the way to Holdens / Pontiac and merge Pontiac into Saturn..... or maybe not, since they are often right next door.
Loren
The’84 Camaro was rattle and squeak free at 15 yrs old. I kept it in great working order and only had a small oil leak. The interior and exterior looked 2 years old when a friend bought it from me for $2800. It was losing it’s garage spot to the new Astro. It had a new a/c comp and clutch, the top line interior and rally wheels. The guy who gave my friend $4k for it 4 yrs later had a race ready 350 ready to drop into it. He wanted it because it was lightweight, no power opts and had the factory F41 susp. Most V8 Camaros in general are destroyed in 5-7 yrs because of abuse, accidents, etc so it is hard to find a near show quality one 18 yrs old that is ready to give up it’s carb’ed 2.8 V6 pushrod anyway.
The similarity of the Riv and the Camaro is that in maintained cond, at 15 years old and bookoo miles they will both bottom out at about $2800 worth, except the Riv will be a roomy, sub 7 second 0-60, loaded, much more comfortable car with air bags and ABS. The Camaro had 60k mi on it in it’s first 3 years, but after that it had a pampered life in comparison to the daily grind the Riv gets.
The Astro and Camaro were base level vehicles that have done very well. I'd wager that even my ext. cab Silverado LS at $23600 plus tax was close to a after nego. new Tacoma price if equally equipped with autotrac 4wd, posi, the V6 engine, bedliner, tow pkg, all power interior, chrome bumpers, 16" alloys and 31" trail tires. I'd of been laughed off the Toyota lot if I offered 24k for a Tundra with all that back then.
Follow me. The day GM, imports chinese cars is the day I'm all done. I will expect the UAW, to go down in a blaze before they allow that to happen. I'm very surprised they are allowing Aveo's to made in South Korea, and be imported here. My last hope is that the UAW, will organize Toyota, and I can openly support Toyota. You thought I support GM, just wait until the day the UAW, get's behind Toyota. I will be punch drunk on Toyota Kool-Aid but until GM, back stabs us I will continue to support GM, even though Lexus, makes automobiles like the LX 570 that blows away anything the Escalade has to offer.
-Rocky
The US manufacturers ought to have been building such cars all along to regain the younger people who would buy those cars. Give them a satisfactory experience at the dealership and in the product and regain some market in the future, 5, 10, 20 years out.
The Aveo is one such car. I know satsified owners. Offering more, varied choices would be GM's push to the future for success.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't know which companies have been at the chats and I gotta know which company did it. My first guess would have been Hyundai.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
BTW, what does that mean, Chevy, an American Revolution? Better than the Brits?
I will go check out the new Saturn Opel hatch when it hits the shores. My guess is that more imports from Europe and Australia will be accepted in the US - GM market than would be the China cars, which would impact the image of GM in a negative way. This is NOT to say China can not build any product it sets out build. It is full steam ahead in China, and they do have some serious momentum - and money in the bank, no doubt. Someday, is sure to come when their cars start selling in volume in the States. But really, a GM / China car seems off base, since we have been told over the years that Chevy is like baseball, apple pie, and well you get the point. And I may add after all the patriotic advertising we see today. This is our country states the song.
I think I will buy a Corvette before I ever buy a Chery. I did look at Hyundai Sonata and Tiburon. Both not bad little cars. Would rank the Sonata below Aura and Accord however. But they are sure getting there compared to a somewhat slow start. I am thinking South Korean cars will be accepted before China makes. Could be wrong. A walk through a Wal Mart may be enlightening. Perhaps I am in denial.
Loren
Rocky
He drives his Aveo to work and leaves the Corvette at home or his wife drives the DHS to work.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
I'm sorry a Aveo, ruins GM's image. I'd rather them clone a yaris or fit than make the Aveo. I can't understand how anyone with sense buy a Aveo, over a Carolla. The Carolla, is the greatest fuel efficient automobile ever made IMHO.
Rocky
What are we going to do if our buick's get made in China, and they import em' ???? What if Cadillac, is next ?
Are you going to jump ship like me if they do this ????
Rocky
Rocky
It's a little late to expect Americans to worry about 'foreign constructed' GM cars, even if they're from China.
After all, aren't you the one that rejects Toyotas and Hondas and Nissans built in the U.S. as 'not domestic' because the profits (you say) all go to the home country?
I understand the sentiment, and I'm not crazy about the Chinese, either, but this particular horse left the barn long ago.
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I support the Japanese automakers building products here and buying from our suppliers. I wished all their cars were made here. If the day comes when the UAW unionizes Toyota, I could be a buyer of their products. A lot of union members and "buy american" types like myself might drink a full glass of Toyota Kool-Aid even though it's contains traces of poison.
Rocky
How about a bunch of parts, as in a whole engine. How sad is that. Doesn't GM import engines built in China and put them in Equinoxes and Torrents? How soon before GM starts shipping Chinese Buicks, and maybe Cadillacs to the US. When that happens, maybe traditional American brand buyers in US will switch to American made Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissan to be loyal to the workers putting them together here in the good old USA.
Someone on this board a while back said that the Lenovo laptop, formerly IBM Thinkpad, is pretty good quality. Have read elsewhere that Chinese telecom industry is getting good quality and is undercutting traditional big-name, old-time suppliers. Just a matter of time before US telecoms might start considering Chinese telecom suppliers.
Don't the Chinese universities graduate many times more engineers than the US? What does that mean for the US?
What about the hot dogs. Maybe it will be Chery, ping-pong, chow mein and almond cookies.
Wrong
How soon before GM starts shipping Chinese Buicks, and maybe Cadillacs to the US.
Never Buicks nor Cadillacs (OK, never say never but at least not in the next 10 years.)
In the last 20 posts, I have actually discovered something very intriguing to me today. Many of you folks that support GM in a do or die fashion only support them because they provide jobs for UAW workers, not because they are the home team. Some of you would turn on GM immediately if they started selling Chinese cars in the U.S. Why has the Aveo not already irked you?
Don't forget, GM's success in the 50-year timeframe may depend to a great extent on their ability to compete in China, so you buying a Chinese-built Chevy here in the States today would not only provide profits for the "home team", but would also provide revenues for the Chinese GM operation, which could be plowed back into the Chinese market to increase GM's success there.
And here's another thought: it would probably pay off in spades for GM to eliminate all production in the States at UAW plants in that same 50-year timeframe (probably many years less, in fact). The UAW contracts allow the company no flexibility. And what's more, GM could do that by moving production fairly cheaply to Canada and Mexico, NOT TO MENTION all the new models that will be coming across the Atlantic and Pacific. A global company like GM simply can't afford to be tied down as much as the North American operation currently is.
Hey, you can go out today and buy a $40,000 VW built in Bratislava, where workers are paid whatever the market will bear in the former eastern bloc. You can bet those folks are glad of a job no matter the wage. That is just the nature of the market reality in which GM finds itself. Until we can figure out a way to advocate for all those workers around the world not being paid a living wage, we should avoiding shooting our own domestic industry in the foot.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They tried to, but after a decade or so of Chevettes, Fiestas, and Omnis (all derived from European-market cars), the domestics just threw in the towel and rebadged Asian cars.
lemko: Seville? Small? Whew! ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Canada is not a cheap place to build vehicles. Cost structure is not that much of a difference. Biggest benefit to the Oshawa plants is the CAW is much more willing to work with management there to cut cost and build the best quality built vehicles. Oshawa 1 and 2 consistently win best quality vehicles at GM and over many competitors (laCrosse vs. Camry) AND win awards for most productive plant in NA.
OK, I hear you, we'll have a little gentlemen's bet
There will be no importing of cars from China for Buick and Cadillac is what I said. Now in 10 years the importation of a small, inexpensive Chevy/Saturn could happen. China has a long way to go to get their other cost (non manpower) down and other production issues. We tried to import an entire interior to put in an american built vehicle (from a vehicle built in China also) and the cost delta with all factors taken in account just did not make a business sense. Sources here are doing a great job of increasing productivity and cost reduction and quality improvement. That is why so many OEM's are getting so much product from here.
Ford 79%
Chrysler 73%
Toyota 48%
Now that is an american company!
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070429/BUSINESS01/704290599/10- 14
;-)
As for the Canadian move, I did not mean that Canadian production was cheap, just that the move itself would be cheap: production already exists there, transportation of goods to and from there is relatively cheap, the labor pool already exists as does infrastructure.
I am sure that building new plants in Canada carries few if any extra costs for GM over refitting or building new plants inside the U.S. But there is one crucial difference between the UAW and the CAW, and you have already pointed it out: CAW is much more willing to work with management in cost-cutting and quality improvement.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But tell me what you're thinking: what Honda model was a rebadge? Do you mean to include other Asian automakers, like when the Passport was a rebadged Isuzu? I thought you were talking about domestics.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There are two utterly disgraceful comments that have been left up for nearly 24 hours. Whether or not the comments reflect the views of the Free Press is irrelevant.
And look, among Toyota's actually built here, the domestic parts content is 76%, almost on par with GM and Ford. When 2007 is all on the books, and Toyota has managed to shift another 100K of its Camry sales from imported to domestically produced cars (in Indiana), the overall numbers will shift some. Toyota has to work on building more plants here, as indeed they are already doing apace.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"Toyota Motor Corp.'s North American-built cars and trucks had fewer imported parts on average than those built by Chrysler Group. However, Toyota's overall average of domestic parts fell because of a surge of vehicles imported from Japan."
I do not understand. What part did I leave out? Wasn't that comment in the article?