By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Moreover, J.D. Power also gave the Platinum Plant Quality Award for producing vehicles yielding the fewest defects to Ford's Wixom Assembly Plant, which stopped making cars May 31. The plant produced the Lincoln Town Car, which averages 35 problems per 100 vehicles."
The first 90 days is a very very limited time to judge a vehicle over.
27 of the top runners qualified and ran the mile at the state meet for high school last week. The guy who came in 25th ran about a 4:28 :sick: mile. I think his parents should trade him in for a more perfect model :mad: .
How we act
All the cars are great, but If our standards are high enough, our own kids won't be able to work in the plant that builds the cars we expect to buy. IMHO a Buick Lacrosse is lower cost in every category than a Camry, has a longer warranty, rides quieter, holds more, and comes with a six for the price of a 4 cyl Camry. Last time I checked J.D. Power though, the Buick has .3 of a problem more than Toyota after 3 years, so if a problem is $300 to fix and in 9 years the Buick will have .9 of a problem more than the Toyota, I'll go broke fixing that one Buick problem 9 years from now. And the only benefit is keeping the possibility of jobs for my kids so I'll draw social security from a healthier system? No way, send my money to Japan. I won't buy American until they run the 4:08 mile that wins first place.
I havent ever done anything to my Honda...except all the things I did to it.
You're lucky. I had trouble calling their customer support through the years for computers at work. They don't speak English well. If you are a business they gave better support certain hours of the day... Dell is an example of putting in cheapest parts. I know one person who bought 120 Dells all the same for uniformity; half had one part of one brand and he found the others had a different part. There went interchangeability and scavaging one computer to keep others running as they aged and broke.
I believe I have seen the MSN reviews. They are more factual about years and what type of problems were reported or known so the reader could judges the liklihood and cost of the repair if it occurred to their car or car they were shopping. That's a good source.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
though individual scores are not posted to the public, LaCrosse beat out the Camry every year (do not know about last year though). But the GP and LaCrosse are both built at the Oshawa II plant that has been #1 or 2 in NA for many years for quality.
a little fine-tuning for optimum shifts. A button on the gear lever allows
for manual shifts, which I found handy when passing. Fuel mileage is rated
at 16 miles per gallon city, 22 highway for the all-wheel-drive Enclave,
but I averaged just less than 21 mpg. Remember – EPA ratings for 2008
better reflect real-world driving conditions.
Is it me or are there only two previous years to sample from and you just said you don't know about one of those years.....
Not saying the LaCrosse isn't a good car. Not even saying it may be that trouble free. Just think we're pushing the Powers results to the point of silliness.
Century also started beating the Camry back in 2001 or so.
The trouble is no one thinks of a Carmy as being a competitor to anything Buick makes. The Avalon maybe, but not the Camry. Most Toyota models go against Chevy not Cadillac and Buick. Cost wise the base lacrosse costs more than Camry. Now after rebates and what not you could get the Buick cheaper perhaps but I think there is something wrong when a make that is supposed to be entry level luxury can be had cheaper than a make that is supposed to be everyday mans car. Buick can’t keep a decent imagine like that. Buick isn’t value, that’s Chevy. Buick is supposed to be I got a little extra and I want to show it. Thoose huge rebates really blur the lines of who is supposed to go against what.
Also there is a difference between a car lover and most consumers. A car lover would not be put off by a low cost repair. Heck might be a reason to go peaking under the hood. A consumer does not like any sort of breakdown at all even if the repairs are cheap. A breakdown is a major interruption in their lives. A consumer might go for a car that has few, but more expensive problems over one that has more problems, but cheaper fixes. Esp. if the the more expensive car has other features like gas mileage and safety.
Personally, if they wish to return the car to its glory days, then by all means make only upper to top of the line models. Best engines - best transmissions, and great trim. A near Cadillac, like she should be. Does the LaCrosse have a future?
Loren
I will not argue your points BUT my comment was that the LaCrosse has better quality than the Camry. Per a previous poster this is not very widely known. No matter what segment we want to discuss the Camry is held up as one of the best quality vehicles out there.
As far as Camry comepeting with LaCrosse I think you are a bit off. MANY past Buick buyers are now Camry owners. They both have a comfortable ride with pretty much the same handling. Average age wize the Camry is getting closer to Buick average age every year.
What huge rebates? Current 2007 LaCrosse has a $1250 incentive or 3.6-3.9%. Not very huge to me at the end of the model year.
I see that also as a factor Buick has to work around in the sedan business to recoup the Hyundai younger purchaser tot he Buick quality fold.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
As for repairs, have fun with that $4000 transmission repair in the Toyota. Oh, and silly prices for all parts and repairs comparable to Volvo. I looked at the prices they wanted for parts and it's insane.
The GM will break a tiny bit more often, but if the repairs cost half to 2/3 as much, you'll end up way ahead. And honestly, the LaCrosse CXS blows the Camry out of the water the second you get into heavy traffic or twisties. Looks like a Buick but handles more like an A6 or Saab 9-5.
And the Lucerne CXS is a thing of beauty. Big, solid, V8 grunt and power, and of course, that superb magnetic ride suspension. It feels like a Cadillac when you drive it.
Loren
Never driven a Buick CXS model. Sounds like they gotta grip, so to speak. Does magnetic ride add to repair costs, complexity of suspension, or become problematic in any fashion over time? If not, it seems like the suspension of choice. And the engine of choice is in the pkg. Perhaps those should be the real Buicks as in upscale? Unless ride is too hard for the Buick crowd. Are people still reporting problems with the steering on the Lucernes? Seems I saw that on the Lucernes site. - Loren
Yes - Toyota in the last 4-5 years has jumped the cost of their parts up to Volvo levels. It's becoming silly now - to the point where you can buy the same part after-market for 1/4 the price.(as opposed to GM's 2x after-market cost)
The magnetic ride suspension, though, is what transforms the car from a big GM boat to a recreation of an old Lexus LS400 or Mercedes S420. The big, square barges from a decade ago. Torque steer is gone. The ride is smooth. And it stays flat in turns(!), which is something no Buick ever has done.
Okay, other than the Grand National, but that was... how long ago???
It really is a superb vehicle. And the LaCrosse CXS is basically a front wheel drive CTS. Same suspension, same engine. A real shocker because it looks so plain on the exterior(though markedly better styling than the first gen CTS)
The LaCrosse is a much nicer car than a Camry any way you look at it - especially the higher-end CXL and CXS models. Buick should just stop building the cheapo rental fodder stuff. Leave that stuff to Chevy.
LaCrosse is traditional smooth and flowing lines, as was the LeSabre. For some reason people are less in tune with the look these days. The why could be a lot of things, but the result is that what I see as good style, such as the smoothies, rounded look of say the early nineties, shall we say Euro and American cross breed of air flow look, is no longer the rage. I would be more than pleased to see it return, and the Buick LaCrosse is a good stylish car. It does look a bit traditional nineties Buick, which to some is a negative. Perhaps the press is somewhat to blame here, as right off the bat, they said the style looked old or Taurus like and blah, blah, blah. Seems that people are not likely to always think for themselves and feel they would be wrong in assuming the press to be in the wrong.
Change can be a good thing. Or it can just be a thing. :surprise: Are we now accepting the BMW Z4 look over the previous Z3 ? Not sure, as the old one doesn't last too long on a used car lot. Did the flame look flame out? IMHO, the Nissan 300ZX of 1995 looks better than the 350Z, though the 350Z is pretty stylish, even with the too tall doors.
The 300ZX to me looked awesome, but so was the price.
Loren
I don't doubt that Buick is right up there with the low defect crowd.
I may be in a minority of the buying public but I like the way that Buicks look right now. I mean they look like they belong on the road now as opposed to looking nostalgic or futuristic and they still look like Buicks! To me this is a good thing.
The interior of the Lacrosse is most definitely a cut above Aura, Accord, Fusion, etc. Nothing by soft touch materials and stitching everywhere you lay your hands. Believe it or not there is not a huge difference between the interior of the lacrosse and the ES350, although the Lexus has better wood and gauges.
One thing they did retro on the PT Crusier was the color match to a glossy dash, which looked like the old painted metal of days-gone-bye. That is sorta cool ! :shades: Dare to be different GM, like the good ol' days, and don't worry about the side effects -- oh, I take the back. Guess it is never again for the Fiero, Corvair, Vega, and such, yet a lot of those cars and projects for changes in cars, once perfected, whould have been so great.
At the LA Car Show, I believe I say this Buick Wildcat, with a glass top and exposed engine under glass. But that was 1987, and memories get fuzzy. I recall the whole Cadillac area was in white. A white piano, with a man dress in white and white cars. There was this 959 Porsche - wow!
Loren
Driving it is the real eye-opener. What a difference it makes when GM decides to actually put good suspension on one of their sedans.
That was the old GM disease in the day. I certainly hope they've gotten over it! I certainly do believe they have. The old idea was to come up with a concept and put it on the road. Have things screw up like mad, work out the bugs until the car really shines (late Fieros and Corvairs) and then kill the car.
They used to do that with paint, too. Bring out new experimental paints and let the customer see how it worked. I had an old 78 Nova they did that on. I bought it used - silver with black hood and trunk lid. They weren't supposed to be black. The paint flecked off leaving the primer.
What's so insane about that! I mean that item has gotta' cost a minimum of 6 whole cents a piece to produce.
I like Volvos. Had one years ago. The sticker shock on parts has steered me away.
Loren
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Buick without discounts costs more and is not marketed at the Camry crowd. When I think Buick, I don’t think of something almost any family of four might have. I think something for someone older and more successful.
Now with the rebates and adding high end options on the Camry then they might be comparable but then again with any car the more options you add on the faster the price goes up. And with any car, the more options you add on the closer it gets to the next category up in price and features.
I will admit that most people don’t buy base models, but I also suspect that most people are paying no more and $23,000 for the Camry. While if Buick were properly positioned people should be paying more than base for the average Buick.
The Buick should be in an higher category than Camry and not everyone is going to add on those options. In fact I think most Camry’s sold are the 4 cylinder variety.
As for the Puris package, that is for people who want a hybrid so price isn’t quite the reason why they selected it. Buick has no hybrid to compare.
Here are the stats from Edmond's:
Camry V6 LE $23.5K to buy and 31 MPG
LaCrosse $27K to buy and 27 MPG for comparable engines.
Loren
Now see? THERE'S your problem! Bubble wrap costs a lot because of its therapeutic use. Try popping the bubbles. You'll feel better.
Saw my first "Come on in to Saturn and test drive an Accord or Camry" ad the other day. Gutsy move. I applaud the idea.
I think LaCrosse, Impala, Lucerne and DTS are the last car column shift cars available?
Is this a common practice for owners of GM cars?
I think that's because most domestic models deserve poor road test scores. They are overpriced, get poor fuel economy, ride like boats or econocars, slow and loud, unrefined, cheap plastics, poor build quality, transmissions are OK at best. They just don't measure up!
CR cares about reliability, fuel economy, and value. CR is all about practicality, and poor resale value is unpractical (due to overpricing to begin with).
Is this some gimmick where they de-tune the engine, detach vacuums hoses and sabotage the Toyota or Honda to make it seem like its as unrefined as the domestics? Maybe underinflate the tires, keep it dirty, run on low oil at the wrong viscosity, there are so many gimmicks involved with this its nuts that anyone would buy it.
Now, true, you could get a stripped-down Camry V6 for the same price, or only a little more, but then the Camry would get eaten alive on the features front. Or you could get a less expensive Accord with nothing at all on it for less(VP or whatnot), but, well, it doesn't even have 4 speakers.
Smart move by GM. OF course, if they could just manage to re-price the Buicks to a more sane price(ie - lower price, no rebates, ever)...
the bench seats are usually an option on GM vehicles now. It is not really a "bench" because they use the same "bucket" seats but have a flip/fold storage center seat section. The LaCrosse center seat section is more useful for storage (multiple bins) than the console version. It just looks strange (to me) haveing all that extra space. It actually is much more efficient.
Then there was a time when doors jammed, but hopefully we are past that era. I never had that much of a beater car, but some kids did. And in the later 1970's and 1980's parts did fall off, so perhaps door handles just were not usable.
For seating 6, yeap, the old setup with bench seat and shift on column is the ticket. Actually, it is practical. And then there was a time of romance, when the gal sat near her man.
Loren
P.S. "bumpy" good humorous reply there
I think that's because most domestic models deserve poor road test scores. They are overpriced, get poor fuel economy, ride like boats or econocars, slow and loud, unrefined, cheap plastics, poor build quality, transmissions are OK at best. They just don't measure up!
CR cares about reliability, fuel economy, and value. CR is all about practicality, and poor resale value is unpractical (due to overpricing to begin with).
You should really go look at some modern vehicles.
Loren