The '64 and '65 everything, seemed the be simple (but in a nice way) and squared, like the rather plain Mustang or Fairlane. I owned a '65 Stang,which had a good look to her, but always like what they did in '67 for both notch back and fastback. The '64 or '65 cars were pleasing looking, but less streamline looking. So perhaps it is all in how people view the perfect car to look like. Sometimes the execution of design for the more boxed shape, like a Dodge Dart or a Demon/Duster, done to perfection great styling effects, comes off great - '70's still look awesome today. The first gen. Camaro was perhaps the most beautiful design ever for GM. Along with the Corvettes, some real lookers for GM. Third gen. Camaro styling started out really fine. Loren
The '64 or '65 cars were pleasing looking, but less streamline looking. So perhaps it is all in how people view the perfect car to look like.
In my case, I'm not particularly hung up on a specific type, although I tend to think that cars that are long and low, with relatively generous amounts of glass area, are the best looking. But, there are rounded designs that I like, and there are squared-off, angular designs that I like. As the old cliche goes, I guess, the devil is in the details.
For instance, I think a '65-66 Ford Galaxie/LTD or Plymouth Fury is a great looking car, and they're angular styles not that vastly different from the '64-65 Chevelle. But the '64-65 Chevelle just doesnt do it for me. And with big Chevies, I love the '61-62, but the '63-64 just doesn't do it for me as much. But then I thought the '65 Impala, which was pretty curvy, was done to perfection, and the '66 was a nice follow-up. But then I didn't care for the more rounded-off, almost too-swoopy '67. But then I absolutely LOVE the big '67 Pontiacs, which were the same body, so go figure. :P
Glass area you say! How about the old BMW's - wow, what glass area. In a way, even some of the more, let's say strange years, of BMW or say the Saab, still have a charm. Hard to explain in words.
Fast forward to today is the chop top look, which I really don't care for much at all. If all cars go to this too tall doors, with small glass area, I may replace my car some day with a used vehicle. Call me old fashion, but there is no way to feel comfortable in these cars. And they look too much like an armored vehicle. If you can hang an elbow out the window, without putting your arm joint outta operation, it appeals to me. Evidently some feel more secure with the wrap-around cars though, and like the new concept, which is fine. Also try to avoid cars with foot emergency brakes. And I am pretty sure they put auto-express door windows on cars just to torment me. Every try to just roll the window down a crack with an auto switch type? Another trend seems to be too wide consoles which hit the drivers knee - why are they not an inch or two narrower? Loren
Bleh. Impalas and the like are too big to get away with being all bulgy and swoopy. Even the Enclave is too big for its lines; it looks like a walrus car. The Infiniti FX barely gets away with it, but it would look much better if it were the size of a Tuscon.
evasive maneuver: A deer jumped into my lane 40 feet ahead at half throttle accel at 35 mph in the dark in the rain at 6:30 AM. Locked it up and swerved right then left. Deer head went by my window at about 20 mph. Our heads were 2-3 feet apart as it passed by. That was in an '87 Astro with 185k miles on it. Are we not splitting hairs, calling this civic/G5 difference a compromise? There are no G5's on the lot without TC, Auto, and ABS. You would have to order an '08. curb weight: Creates the downward force that enables traction. My 3590 lb CW car got 31 mpg on a trip. Someone reported 39 trip mpg with a G5. Bigger engines weigh more. Power mirrors, power sunroofs, and 12" woofers in the trunk add weight. The car is also designed to get the 173 HP engine. More Torque requires stronger chassis.
I try to provide context and some logic behind most of what I say. I am not in any way a "pro GM" version of miata. I dont know why he's here and he does nothing but criticize GM and ramble on about any and every bad decision they have made in the last 30 years. I do not agree with the notion of "dont shoot the messenger" as if anyone who says negative things about Gm is to be taken seriously. Yes I know Gm is the favorite punching bag of many experts and self proclaimed experts but that doesnt mean every criticism of them is valid.
"Who's to say that the criticism is being offered 'blindly'? Which of Loren's criticisms of the G5 are unfounded?
GM had me as a customer and lost me. I have plenty of first hand experience with GM products as I'm the only import buyer in my family. Their recent GM products aren't leaving them stranded on the side of the road, but every one of them have enough small issues that they're not close to winning me back. "
Most of what m1 said about the G5 was wrong. The G5s interior is no worse than the Corolla or 3. The styling is no more dated than the Asian cars in this class except the civic.
as for GM issues, most import lovers will forgive anything and everything that goes wrong with an import and will tolerate NOTHING when it comes to problems with a domestic. I have a relative that replaced a POS Volvo with a camry that has had numerous problems and I can guarantee you she will NEVER buy a domestic. I wouldnt be shocked if she bought another Toyota product. As far as I can tell problems with Toyotas are hit or miss, some are great and others have problems that range from annoying to unacceptable. And yet I dont hear many people swearing off Toyota's for life. However, if your GM model has a few minor issues but never leaves you stranded it is cause for becoming anti GM for life. its all about the double standards.
"Did you ask what could be wrong? Well gas mileage, no telescopic steering column, electric power steering by GM feel/performance, 4 sp. automatic, no std. anti-lock brakes, rear suspension is semi-independent, tires (not sure how good the basic ones are), high curb weight, lack of side air bags, cheaper interior, and the True Cost to Own (price). Styling is somewhat dated."
1. the corolla is best selling car in this class and has 4 speed auto. The elantra and Focus also have 4 speeds. 2. ABS isnt standard on almost every car in this class. The elantra may be an exception 3. quite a few cars in this class dont have a telescoping steering wheel. 4. most cars in this class have semi independent rears. The 3 and Focus are exceptions. Sentra, Elantra and corolla have beam axles. 5. EPS is becoming widespread these days and is found on several cars in this class.
The only true weakness of the G5 is lack of a small fuel efficent engine below the 2.2L ecotec. The car is decent looking, offers a powerful 2.4L engine, has 17" and 18" wheels available and according to C&D's test last month has great braking and grip. I dont consider any compact that pulls .88gs and stops from 70 in 164 ft to be piece of crap. Those numbers are close to the Mazdaspeed 3.
Stop bashing everything GM makes without regards to what the competition offers.
"Isn't m1ata part of GM's target market? I think that the whole country is so his opinion counts especially when open ended questions like what's not to like about a G5 are asked.
Don't cherry pick a few stats to make an argument and then get upset when you're called on it. "
its pretty ridiculous to say that GM is doing something wrong if it cant please any critics. Toyota is making billions and is loved by the press and millions of owners but I dont want anything they sell. I am not impressed by Toyotas and have no intentions of giving them any of my money but that doesnt prove that Toyota "needs" to worry about my opinion. Toyota makes excellent applicances but I dislike them anyway. everyone is entitled to an opinion and its important to realize that not everyone is going to like every manufacturer. I honestly doubt you will ever see Miata in a GM product regardless of what improvements they make. Its that simple. Same goes for me and Toyotas but I dont spend time in Toyota focused forums talking about how much I dont like their products.
"People usually fly if they have to travel more than a few hundred miles, and those who travel by road either drive or tow an RV. Places with long, flat, straight roads have declined in population, while places with high traffic density and curvy roads have increased in population. "
Are you somehow suggesting that domestic share has declined because they make cars that dont handle? That is incorrect to say the least. The most successful import company in this marker makes cars that emphasize quiet, smooth rides over handling. mazda is known for handling and its cars are only modestly successful at best. The Fusion and Aura are more fun to drive than comparable Toyotas and Hyundais, if not Hondas.
People's perceptions of domestic vehicles are typically 10-20 years out of date in my opinion. Anyone who thinks that domestic cars are wallowing boats made for seniors hasnt been paying attention. Hyundai and Toyota have cornered the market on soft riding cars that put handling a distant 2nd after ride quality. aside from the Camry SE I dont think there is one decent handling Toyota in their arsenal. Lexus has the IS, but many argue that car isnt sporty enough considering its looks and hp.
The GM defenders always insist that everyone else has misperceptions of GM's products. I stopped buying GM in 95. That's when I stopped getting stranded on the side of the road and having a couple unscheduled repairs every year.
I still have plenty of first hand exposure to their products and see things that aren't acceptable like:
- My mother's Impala with it's tranny leak at 42k - My Dad's Century with it's ABS light going on and off at 15k - My brother's broken moonroof on his Regal - My sister's Cobalt having the ignition module replaced twice
With my 99 Civic and 03 Altima, I've never fixed anything in a combined 70k.
As a yard stick for car comparison, I was using the new Civic compared to the Cobalt/G5. And my statements are accurate. And perhaps it is time to look up the definition of the word bashing.
>I honestly doubt you will ever see Miata in a GM product regardless of what improvements they make. Its that simple. Same goes for me and Toyotas but I dont spend time in Toyota focused forums talking about how much I dont like their products.
> most import lovers will forgive anything and everything that goes wrong with an import and will tolerate NOTHING when it comes to problems with a domestic
If ya like the G5, go for it! It is whatever features mean the most to you. Wow, 12" woofers! Be careful for your hearing. My ears seem to ring since the 1960's rock era.
Have fun with the car. Red would be the color I would go with. Loren
Translated, they are so impressed by the imports quality and drive-ability, they will forgive some defects. This may be a good thing. And something for GM to consider. In a way, the old Corvettes were much the same. More like a truck for finesse and handling when compared to top sports cars, yet they looked so hot and went so fast in a straight line. If say a Malibu was 100% fun to drive, yet have a trip or two to the car hospital, I suppose a person may be more forgiving. We are talking human nature here.
Nope, no one took my photo at the Saturn dealership when I was test driving the car. You won't see me in one. And then there are the other cars tested -- nope, no evidence to see. Loren
>they are so impressed by the imports quality and drive-ability,
Strange, that's exactly what I've had with my last many GM products. Still running at 150000 miles 98 LeSabre. Only 60K miles on 03 LeSabre. Just now beginning to really be broken in. No engine sludge. No rattles in the dash. No transmission shifting flares and hesitations that scare people to death because of the lag when trying to merge, e.g. It's truly amazing what some people will forgive in their foreign brand cars and continue to criticize in US brand cars--even when they don't have real driving experience in them. It's called..., hypocrisy.
Strange, that's exactly what I've had with my last many GM products. Still running at 150000 miles 98 LeSabre. Only 60K miles on 03 LeSabre. Just now beginning to really be broken in. No engine sludge. No rattles in the dash. No transmission shifting flares and hesitations that scare people to death because of the lag when trying to merge, e.g. It's truly amazing what some people will forgive in their foreign brand cars and continue to criticize in US brand cars--even when they don't have real driving experience in them. It's called..., hypocrisy.
Yeah but imidazol Buick is probably the best line of car that GM offers as far as as a car line of their having a good record of reliability. I mean the Lucrene and LaCrosse have pretty good reliability(above average reliability)in Consumer Reports. Buick is probably as reliable as Honda or Toyota.
"The Fusion and Aura are more fun to drive than comparable Toyotas and Hyundais, if not Hondas."
I'll probably agree with you that the Fusion snd are more fun to drive than Toyota but Honda's ah I don;t know.
"People's perceptions of domestic vehicles are typically 10-20 years out of date in my opinion."
So 20 years ago driving a Japanese Branded Car was not very accepted in America. Your right probably people's perception of domestic cars are out of date but the Domestics put themselves in that hole and now they need to get out of it. You have to remember the Japanese did not gain ample market share on the Domestics overnight either.
"mazda is known for handling and its cars are only modestly successful at best."
Mazda has to compete with Honda and Nissan and Mazda does not have the reputation for reliability that Honda has established nor do the have the brand equity name wise that Nissan has. Mazda does not have a good record when it comes to having their brands cars retaining their value, Honda does as does Nisssan of late(in the past few years anyway.)
the warranty is very good The metallic red tintcoat looks good on the G5 I would expect 32 mpg into the wind with the a/c on at 75 mph from it. I see the G6 gets 33 mpg I couldn't find one without ABS, sunroof pkg or Auto 4/5 star crash test even without side airbags 2 more inches rear leg room than civic I didn't know it had electric steering until I read it here after driving it. Lowest sticker priced one on a lot near me is $17,840.
You probably weren't raised on Toyota products. I was raised on Detroit iron, particularly GM. I've had a few that I completely loved. That's why to see what they've done with the brand and their continued missteps just bums me out. I wish that they'd be great again but it's one step forward while the competition takes two.
I want to see them be great again, but I'm not going just convince myself that everyone else is wrong and the cars are great.
I agree that people have misperceptions about domestic products in regards to quality and reliability. That said, I find my 2002 Nissan Maxima mechanically superior in every single way I can think of to my 2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue (and my previous 4 GM products). If GM has a misperception problem, I'm not so sure it's undeserved, even if that perception is historically based over modernity.
I'm presuming you're comparing the Civic coupe to the G5 here? I've never been in the back seat of the latest Civic coupe, but I've been in the sedan, and was pretty impressed. I'm 6'3", with a 35" inseam, and found the front of the Civic to be just fine. And then, without doing anything to the front seat, I found that I could fit just fine in the back, as well. The seat was a little low as I recall, and the front seat was hollowed out just enough that I could fit back there without my knees smashing into the seat up front.
I couldn't do that with the Cobalt though. However, I thought the Cobalt had a very comfy front seat. GM's small cars have come a long way from the likes of the Cavalier, Saturn S-series, etc.
I'll admit, I kinda like the style of the G5. Still, if I was going to get a little car, I think I'd just bite the bullet and get a Civic. If nothing else, if I decided that I really couldn't tolerate something that little, the Civic would have high enough resale that I could ditch it without losing my shirt, and I can go running back to the welcoming morrokide, velour, and fine Co-rrrrrin-thian leather of the cars I'm used to. :P
As Lee Iacocca would say, those are really old cars, time to buy something new. GM needs you -- go buy !
I would say if a person has a bad engine and transmission, they would be less than impressed with that car, and not be buying that car or company again, or is that soon. Be it domestic or foreign, if a car has major problems, as described, then it would indeed be foolish to be happy with that product no matter how much they like the other features. Well, that is until they are sure about a turn-around. What you described are also the problems people had with there GM back when. You are now saying they should not forgive and forget?
Looking at car reliability records, some like the CTS look promising, while other cars made by the same manufacturer do not. I would pick the car as well as the company. Say a new Camry has some transmission problems, or a squeak or whatever, then don't buy it. See if it is improved later on, of simply buy some other product. I don't like the high door sills and the interior has some fit-up issues to the look of the interior. Currently there is nothing in the line of Toyota or Nissan which I am remotely interested in. Doesn't mean I would never buy a car made by those companies down the road. Doesn't mean there are not people simply in love with the cars they now produce. Best to critique all cars before buying. Find out the faults, as well as, what you will enjoy about the car. Loren
Strange, that's exactly what I've had with my last many GM products. Still running at 150000 miles 98 LeSabre. Only 60K miles on 03 LeSabre. Just now beginning to really be broken in. No engine sludge. No rattles in the dash. No transmission shifting flares and hesitations that scare people to death because of the lag when trying to merge, e.g.
I dunno, I'm really starting to lose faith in GM. Last week I found a loose screw on the floor in the back seat of my '76 LeMans when I took it to the car show. I dunno where it fell out of. I tell ya, they don't build these things like they used to! :shades:
See, that does prove it. If you'd bought a Honda Civic (600?) or Camry (I know, they weren't here yet-maybe a Fiat) you wouldn't have had to worry about the screw. The whole car would have rusted away from around the screw!!!
Things aren't like they were for either group of cars. I watch all the GM cars from the 90s, early 90s, and late 80s running around here in Midwest. They're not being babied like they have any problems. They must have 150-250K on most of them by now since they're 15 years and older.
I don't know what kind of imports imidazol has driven, but I have driven a few. I once considered a Lexus LS430 around the time I bought my Seville. I took it out for a test drive expecting some kind of epiphany and it turned out the Lexus felt exactly like a Buick Park Avenue! Recently, I drove a Corolla, a Mitsubishi Galant, and a VW Jetta GLI.
The Corolla was OK, but I didn't feel it was a quantum leap over a Cobalt. The radio and center stack look better than that of a Cobalt, but there were other things like really flimsy sun visors with visible flash and rough edges. The car felt like it hesitated during acceleration. It was kind of dangerous merging onto Rte 309 South coming out of the Ft. Washington toll plaza of the PA Turnpike. It's situations like that you need instant power.
The Mitsubishi Galant has a weird-looking exterior with a pretty cool interior. Trouble is, the car feels very tinny. This became pretty evident when I closed the decklid. I felt like it was going to bend and it closed with a resounding "clang." I did like the cool blue backlighting to the gauges. The controls feel cheap, but are nicely designed.
The Volkswagen Jetta GLI has a really, really nice interior! If Cobalts looked this good inside, people would be busting down the doors of the Chevrolet dealer to buy one. The performance was amazing and the car seemed to be pretty well-built. However, I've smashed into the reef listening to the VW siren song before and seen other dashed against the rocks before and after me. An ex-girlfriend and I got a new 1994 Jetta and that car was nice...when it ran which was every other Tuesday. Another guy bought a new 2000 Jetta and it was so bad he traded it the following year for a new Saturn!
My 93 LeSabre does the job as a station car but with 118k on it, it's certainly problematic. I don't think that it could be used as an every commuter car.
You've spent a lot of time in a Corolla lately. What are the pros and cons from your point of view?
I don't recall at this time. It's taken a lot of therapy, but I have finally been able to eradicate any and all memory of that nasty little car. :P
Seriously, it wasn't THAT bad! Here's a few of my thoughts on it...
Good fuel economy. The one time I actually checked, it got around 37.4 mpg in mostly highway driving, with speeds varying from 65-80. To be honest though, since it was my uncle's car and not mine, I was pretty gentle driving it. I tried not to accelerate too hard, ease up to cruising speed, etc. However, I haven't spent much time behind the wheel of any other small cars, so I really can't compare their fuel economy.
Excellent back seat room and trunk space for a smallish car.
Fairly quiet at highway speeds. It's no noisier than my 2000 Intrepid, and at any given speed, engine revs at about the same rpm. It's fairly smooth for a small car, but there's still no way to hide the fact that it's a small car. On some of those hills and valleys between Baltimore and Harrisburg, I had to get a really good running start going down one hill, if I wanted to get up the next hill without any fuss. The car's not a good downhill coaster...it just doesn't build up momentum.
IMO, the biggest shortcoming of this car is the front seat comfort. My uncle's Corolla is the cheap CE model, with limited seat adjustments. I've sat in nicer models that have a lever that sort of ratchets the back part of the seat down, giving it more of an angle, which helps with legroom and thigh support. In cheap CE guise though, well, a Gremlin probably has a better seating position! It starts to hurt my butt and legs after about 10 minutes. In comparison, my Intrepid takes about 45 minutes. My '76 LeMans takes about an hour, but doesn't bother my legs because it has better thigh support than the Corolla or Intrepid.
Another odd thing about the Corolla is that it forces me to lean inward toward the center console a bit. I think it's because of the way the roof curves in, and the fact that it's a narrower car. If I sit up straight, it just feels like the window and B-pillar and such are too close to my head, and the A-pillar is out too far into my field of view. It's like I have to lean inward a bit to put the A-pillar in the same frame of reference to where it would be with a bigger, wider car.
Ventillation on the Corolla is very weak. On the highest fan setting, it's about the equivalent of the second-highest setting on the GM and Mopar cars I've had with 4-speed fans. Interior materials aren't too bad, although the fabric on the door panels makes me think of the texture of a tongue. They also do a pretty good job at making some of the interior materials look soft. You have to touch them before realizing they're just hard plastic. And I don't know if I should blame Toyota for this or my uncle, as he can be rough on things, but the little change drawer to the left of the steering wheel and one of the little storage doors on the center console are both broken.
And the car doesn't really squeak or rattle, with around 140,000 miles on it, but there's a spot on the dash just under the radio, where two different trim pieces come together, and going down the road they jiggle at a different frequency. I noticed it when I went to press a button on the radio and missed, and put my finger on that spot, and felt an odd vibration.
As for handling and the supposed nimbleness of a smaller car, I really saw no advantage there. I'm used to bigger cars, which have a more substantial, well-planted feel on the road, so what some people may call nimble, to me this thing just felt nervous and jittery. I found the blind spots pretty bad, too, so that hampered its maneuverability, IMO. However, I feel a blind spot is something you can become used to. My Intrepid has plenty of them, but since I'm used to them, I know how to work around them. If I drove this Corolla enough, I'd get used to them as well.
As for acceleration, I'd say it's about as fast as my Intrepid, but you have to punch the Corolla a little harder, and it's going to rely on the lower gears more than my Intrepid would.
Overall, I'd say the Corolla's not a bad car, but it's also what I'd call a "hittable target" for the competition. There's really nothing magical or paradigm-shifting about it. But it's also been on the market in its current guise for over 5 years (my uncle got this one Memorial Day weekend, 2002), so it's not exactly the latest and greatest.
Bought a '76 Olds Starfire, sold it about five years later for around $300 to a wholesaler. Couldn't sell the thing. It was rusting around the windows and this is in California. Guess they made the LeMans better. The smaller cars pretty much sucked. Very cheaply built, and started to show signs of aging in the third year. So I guess that proves it too. Loren
Perhaps you found GM's problem. Those people in the Mid-West need to buy something new. GM is only selling parts to old, and I mean old cars, as you describe. Is there some sort of depression in the middle states. :confuse: Loren
Bought a '76 Olds Starfire, sold it about five years later for around $300 to a wholesaler. Couldn't sell the thing. It was rusting around the windows and this is in California. Guess they made the LeMans better. The smaller cars pretty much sucked. Very cheaply built, and started to show signs of aging in the third year. So I guess that proves it too.
My Mom bought a new '75 LeMans coupe back in the day, and to be honest, it was pretty tired by 1980 when she traded it on a new Malibu coupe. I remember the thing needing a new distributor when it was only a year or two old. Dad wrecked it in 1977, and after that, it just never did run right. I don't think it ever broke down and left us stranded, but once fuel prices started going up and the stuff was getting scarce, Mom got tired of feeding that pig. She got around 15-16 mpg with it, whereas the Malibu, in her type of driving, got around 22 or so.
The LeMans didn't have any rust on it that I recall, but by the time it was 5 years old, it just looked ANCIENT. It was big and curvy and had round headlights, and was this loud persimmon-bronze color. We never had any problems finding that car in the mall parking lot! In contrast, the Malibu was small (for the time, and even today, an '80 Malibu is only about the size of an Accord or Camry), angular, had rectangular headlights, and was a much more muted shade of medium blue. I remember Mom was so used to that LeMans, which stuck out like a sore thumb, that she'd often "lose" the Malibu in the mall parking lot!
GM definitely put a lot more effort into their bigger cars back then, and probably still does today. As for my '76 LeMans though, in all seriousness, I think the reason it lasted so long was mainly because it had a succession of owners that WANTED it to last a long time. It was taken care of pretty well, and is almost rust-free, except where some bubbling is coming out on the upper quarter panels, at the edge of the vinyl roof.
"- My mother's Impala with it's tranny leak at 42k - My Dad's Century with it's ABS light going on and off at 15k - My brother's broken moonroof on his Regal - My sister's Cobalt having the ignition module replaced twice
once again, people have no tolerance for ANY problems with domestic vehicles. I dont call a flashing ABS light a reliability problem. reliability means failed trannies, engines that wont start, failed electronics, failed power accessories, etc. You think a Century is a piece of crap because the ABS light flashed at 15K miles?
How about water leaks, failed AC and failed power locks on a 2002 camry? How would you classify that?
my parents Intrigue has a moonroof that hasnt had any leaks or malfunctions in 9 years of ownership. I have never known of any tranny problems on any GM products in my immediate family.
1995 was a long time ago, time to pay attention to current offerings and reliability stats.
"If say a Malibu was 100% fun to drive, yet have a trip or two to the car hospital, I suppose a person may be more forgiving. We are talking human nature here. "
Toyota's arent fun to drive and yet people will forgive any amount of problems and still swear off domestics for life. Your theory doesnt line up with reality. People in America HATE domestic cars with a passion and it has little to do with reason and logic. There are tens of millions of people who think they are too smart to be seen driving a domestic and will not consider one.
Businessweek wrote an article about the new design processes at GM in relation to the Malibu and they got hate mail from readers who wanted to make it clear GM didnt get it and would never get their money. People hate GM so much they get offended if they read anything positive about thec company. Go to the GM blog where Lutz posts to see some of the stuff GM haters post on there, its like a religion.
"So 20 years ago driving a Japanese Branded Car was not very accepted in America. Your right probably people's perception of domestic cars are out of date but the Domestics put themselves in that hole and now they need to get out of it. You have to remember the Japanese did not gain ample market share on the Domestics overnight either. "
easier said than done, I find that most import owners have no intentions of every buying anything domestic regardless of quality or performance. While they will always act like the decision is based on fact, image is a huge part of the equation. Most import heavy parts of the country see domestics as lower class and unhip EVEN though domestic brands typically design more stylish cars than their import counterparts. I mean who would ever argue that Toyota or HOnda can style a car better than GM or even Chrysler. Even recent Ford designs blow those two out of the water and that is sad.
Import owners can continue to buy cars based on CR recommendations and the opinions of their friends but I will consider anything in my price range that looks good to me. Quality is close amongst brands today and resale value is not critical to me since I will be paying less for the car up front. When people get on their soapbox about resale value they dont mention that resale values are based on MSRPs and you arent paying MSRP for a domestic. They also dont mention that you will be paying more for an import and spending money on financing for that extra borrowing. In the end the gap isnt all that big. This is why people dont really talk actual dollar figures when bragging about resale value, they just focus on residual values.
i think its gmblogs.com, they get attacked no matter what they blog about. The worst reactions come from any discussion of the Volt. The import loving environmentalists gets on there and blast GM about the Volt, making SUVs, the Aveo and everything else. People will actually spend time to go on there and tell GM they dont believe the Volt will happen and GM is only doing this to divert attention from its gas guzzlers. There is never any mention of Toyota gas guzzlers by these same concerned citizens. People act like the Tundra and Sequoia dont exist.
"So 20 years ago driving a Japanese Branded Car was not very accepted in America. Your right probably people's perception of domestic cars are out of date but the Domestics put themselves in that hole and now they need to get out of it. You have to remember the Japanese did not gain ample market share on the Domestics overnight either. "
can you provide some examples? Hard to accept your argument when you consider:
a) Gm is expanding hybrids while HOnda is scaling back and Nissan only has one available in 8 states b) GM has more 6 speed autos available on non luxury products than Toyota and HOnda makes ZERO 6 speeds for the US market c) GM is the leader in cylinder shut down technology' d) Recent GM designs have been better than anything Toyota or Honda is putting out e) GM has established bonified performance cars of late including the V series cadillcs and the Z06. Honda, Nissan and Toyota have nothing to compete with these cars f) Gm is now launching a DI 300hp V6 ahead of MB, Audi and Acura. g) GM arguably makes the best full size trucks, the best large SUVs and the best large crossovers on the market.
Where is the competition taking 2 steps to GM's 1 exactly?
Resale value? If their imports are all that, why are they trading them so often to be concerned with resale value? If a Camry is so great, I should be able to buy one and make it last 50 years.
I hear that one about domestics belonging to "lower-class people." "Oh, you drive a Cadillac. Are you a successful plumbing contractor?" "No, I'm in trucking and waste management!" I see it more as imports belonging to pretentious poseurs trying to keep up with the Joneses while failing to realize the Joneses are up to their eyeballs in debt. If I lived in one of the "import-heavy" areas, I'd be sure to buy something like a 1958 Buick Roadmaster as my daily driver to deliberately offend all my yuppie (censored) neighbors!
"As a yard stick for car comparison, I was using the new Civic compared to the Cobalt/G5. And my statements are accurate. And perhaps it is time to look up the definition of the word bashing. "
actually they were not accurate. You made the point that the G5 wasnt competitive by listing a bunch of "shortcomings" that are actually quite common for the class. The Civic is a better car (as it should be since its newer) but that doesnt make the G5 a lousy car by any means. You also failed to mention any of the features offered on the G5 that are lacking on the civic.
The only thing I like about the Civic is the thing most people hate about it - the strange instrument panel that looks like it could've come from George Jetson's flying space car!
1487, I maybe a special case but if I can't get pass the interior (style, fit-n'-finish and quality) of a car, it doesn't matter how good looking the car is from the outside, I ain't getting it.
Before I got jumped, let me say this. I think the domestics have improved the interior of their products tremendously. The Aura and Fusions interiors are like night and day comparing to the old LS300 and Taurus' and I am REALLY looking forward to see the new Malibu's in person (it does look good from the pictures). However, since I was being spoiled by having a 1990 Acura Legend as my first car then follow by the 1992 & 1997 Honda Accord, my standard for the interior has been set pretty high I'd say. I think the current Aura and Fusion is equal with Camry and Altima in terms of interior fit-n'-finish and quality but still lag behind style-wise (of course, IMO). Accord, OTOH is in a class of its own...
"I think the current Aura and Fusion is equal with Camry and Altima in terms of interior fit-n'-finish and quality but still lag behind style-wise (of course, IMO). Accord, OTOH is in a class of its own... "
Sorry but I fail to see what great style you find in the interiors of the Camry and Altima. The Altima's interior is actually very similar to the G6's if you look at the two. The camry has nice fancy blue lighting but in the daytime its pretty dull and overwhelmed by the silver faux metallic trim that Toyota loves so much. The accord has a nice head unit and radio info display but is dull otherwise. I do agree that the Fusion's interior is pretty dull. I dont find the interior of the Aura, Impala, Lacrosse, Milan or 2008 Malibu to be worse looking than the average Japanese car. There was a difference ten years ago, but now I just dont see it.
The flashing light just meant the ABS wouldn't work. BUT, as you well know, the regular braking system works just fine. It's like when the motor dies while driving a car and the power steering is gone but the regular steering works fine.
It's probably a sensor problem or the wire or the connection to the sensor at the wheel.
Comments
Loren
In my case, I'm not particularly hung up on a specific type, although I tend to think that cars that are long and low, with relatively generous amounts of glass area, are the best looking. But, there are rounded designs that I like, and there are squared-off, angular designs that I like. As the old cliche goes, I guess, the devil is in the details.
For instance, I think a '65-66 Ford Galaxie/LTD or Plymouth Fury is a great looking car, and they're angular styles not that vastly different from the '64-65 Chevelle. But the '64-65 Chevelle just doesnt do it for me. And with big Chevies, I love the '61-62, but the '63-64 just doesn't do it for me as much. But then I thought the '65 Impala, which was pretty curvy, was done to perfection, and the '66 was a nice follow-up. But then I didn't care for the more rounded-off, almost too-swoopy '67. But then I absolutely LOVE the big '67 Pontiacs, which were the same body, so go figure. :P
Fast forward to today is the chop top look, which I really don't care for much at all. If all cars go to this too tall doors, with small glass area, I may replace my car some day with a used vehicle. Call me old fashion, but there is no way to feel comfortable in these cars. And they look too much like an armored vehicle. If you can hang an elbow out the window, without putting your arm joint outta operation, it appeals to me. Evidently some feel more secure with the wrap-around cars though, and like the new concept, which is fine. Also try to avoid cars with foot emergency brakes. And I am pretty sure they put auto-express door windows on cars just to torment me. Every try to just roll the window down a crack with an auto switch type? Another trend seems to be too wide consoles which hit the drivers knee - why are they not an inch or two narrower?
Loren
Bleh. Impalas and the like are too big to get away with being all bulgy and swoopy. Even the Enclave is too big for its lines; it looks like a walrus car. The Infiniti FX barely gets away with it, but it would look much better if it were the size of a Tuscon.
There are no G5's on the lot without TC, Auto, and ABS. You would have to order an '08.
curb weight: Creates the downward force that enables traction. My 3590 lb CW car got 31 mpg on a trip. Someone reported 39 trip mpg with a G5. Bigger engines weigh more. Power mirrors, power sunroofs, and 12" woofers in the trunk add weight. The car is also designed to get the 173 HP engine. More Torque requires stronger chassis.
GM had me as a customer and lost me. I have plenty of first hand experience with GM products as I'm the only import buyer in my family. Their recent GM products aren't leaving them stranded on the side of the road, but every one of them have enough small issues that they're not close to winning me back. "
Most of what m1 said about the G5 was wrong. The G5s interior is no worse than the Corolla or 3. The styling is no more dated than the Asian cars in this class except the civic.
as for GM issues, most import lovers will forgive anything and everything that goes wrong with an import and will tolerate NOTHING when it comes to problems with a domestic. I have a relative that replaced a POS Volvo with a camry that has had numerous problems and I can guarantee you she will NEVER buy a domestic. I wouldnt be shocked if she bought another Toyota product. As far as I can tell problems with Toyotas are hit or miss, some are great and others have problems that range from annoying to unacceptable. And yet I dont hear many people swearing off Toyota's for life. However, if your GM model has a few minor issues but never leaves you stranded it is cause for becoming anti GM for life. its all about the double standards.
1. the corolla is best selling car in this class and has 4 speed auto. The elantra and Focus also have 4 speeds.
2. ABS isnt standard on almost every car in this class. The elantra may be an exception
3. quite a few cars in this class dont have a telescoping steering wheel.
4. most cars in this class have semi independent rears. The 3 and Focus are exceptions. Sentra, Elantra and corolla have beam axles.
5. EPS is becoming widespread these days and is found on several cars in this class.
The only true weakness of the G5 is lack of a small fuel efficent engine below the 2.2L ecotec. The car is decent looking, offers a powerful 2.4L engine, has 17" and 18" wheels available and according to C&D's test last month has great braking and grip. I dont consider any compact that pulls .88gs and stops from 70 in 164 ft to be piece of crap. Those numbers are close to the Mazdaspeed 3.
Stop bashing everything GM makes without regards to what the competition offers.
Don't cherry pick a few stats to make an argument and then get upset when you're called on it. "
its pretty ridiculous to say that GM is doing something wrong if it cant please any critics. Toyota is making billions and is loved by the press and millions of owners but I dont want anything they sell. I am not impressed by Toyotas and have no intentions of giving them any of my money but that doesnt prove that Toyota "needs" to worry about my opinion. Toyota makes excellent applicances but I dislike them anyway. everyone is entitled to an opinion and its important to realize that not everyone is going to like every manufacturer. I honestly doubt you will ever see Miata in a GM product regardless of what improvements they make. Its that simple. Same goes for me and Toyotas but I dont spend time in Toyota focused forums talking about how much I dont like their products.
Are you somehow suggesting that domestic share has declined because they make cars that dont handle? That is incorrect to say the least. The most successful import company in this marker makes cars that emphasize quiet, smooth rides over handling. mazda is known for handling and its cars are only modestly successful at best. The Fusion and Aura are more fun to drive than comparable Toyotas and Hyundais, if not Hondas.
People's perceptions of domestic vehicles are typically 10-20 years out of date in my opinion. Anyone who thinks that domestic cars are wallowing boats made for seniors hasnt been paying attention. Hyundai and Toyota have cornered the market on soft riding cars that put handling a distant 2nd after ride quality. aside from the Camry SE I dont think there is one decent handling Toyota in their arsenal. Lexus has the IS, but many argue that car isnt sporty enough considering its looks and hp.
I still have plenty of first hand exposure to their products and see things that aren't acceptable like:
- My mother's Impala with it's tranny leak at 42k
- My Dad's Century with it's ABS light going on and off at 15k
- My brother's broken moonroof on his Regal
- My sister's Cobalt having the ignition module replaced twice
With my 99 Civic and 03 Altima, I've never fixed anything in a combined 70k.
Good day :shades:
Loren
Good point.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Good point. So, so, true.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If ya like the G5, go for it! It is whatever features mean the most to you. Wow, 12" woofers! Be careful for your hearing. My ears seem to ring since the 1960's rock era.
Have fun with the car. Red would be the color I would go with.
Loren
enjoy the ride,
Loren
Loren
Strange, that's exactly what I've had with my last many GM products. Still running at 150000 miles 98 LeSabre. Only 60K miles on 03 LeSabre. Just now beginning to really be broken in. No engine sludge. No rattles in the dash. No transmission shifting flares and hesitations that scare people to death because of the lag when trying to merge, e.g. It's truly amazing what some people will forgive in their foreign brand cars and continue to criticize in US brand cars--even when they don't have real driving experience in them. It's called..., hypocrisy.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Got a question though. What kind of imports have you driven before and how do they compare to your LeSabres?
Yeah but imidazol Buick is probably the best line of car that GM offers as far as as a car line of their having a good record of reliability. I mean the Lucrene and LaCrosse have pretty good reliability(above average reliability)in Consumer Reports. Buick is probably as reliable as Honda or Toyota.
I'll probably agree with you that the Fusion snd are more fun to drive than Toyota but Honda's ah I don;t know.
"People's perceptions of domestic vehicles are typically 10-20 years out of date in my opinion."
So 20 years ago driving a Japanese Branded Car was not very accepted in America. Your right probably people's perception of domestic cars are out of date but the Domestics put themselves in that hole and now they need to get out of it. You have to remember the Japanese did not gain ample market share on the Domestics overnight either.
"mazda is known for handling and its cars are only modestly successful at best."
Mazda has to compete with Honda and Nissan and Mazda does not have the reputation for reliability that Honda has established nor do the have the brand equity name wise that Nissan has. Mazda does not have a good record when it comes to having their brands cars retaining their value, Honda does as does Nisssan of late(in the past few years anyway.)
The metallic red tintcoat looks good on the G5
I would expect 32 mpg into the wind with the a/c on at 75 mph from it. I see the G6 gets 33 mpg
I couldn't find one without ABS, sunroof pkg or Auto
4/5 star crash test even without side airbags
2 more inches rear leg room than civic
I didn't know it had electric steering until I read it here after driving it. Lowest sticker priced one on a lot near me is $17,840.
GM has done very good with this car.
I want to see them be great again, but I'm not going just convince myself that everyone else is wrong and the cars are great.
I'm presuming you're comparing the Civic coupe to the G5 here? I've never been in the back seat of the latest Civic coupe, but I've been in the sedan, and was pretty impressed. I'm 6'3", with a 35" inseam, and found the front of the Civic to be just fine. And then, without doing anything to the front seat, I found that I could fit just fine in the back, as well. The seat was a little low as I recall, and the front seat was hollowed out just enough that I could fit back there without my knees smashing into the seat up front.
I couldn't do that with the Cobalt though. However, I thought the Cobalt had a very comfy front seat. GM's small cars have come a long way from the likes of the Cavalier, Saturn S-series, etc.
I'll admit, I kinda like the style of the G5. Still, if I was going to get a little car, I think I'd just bite the bullet and get a Civic. If nothing else, if I decided that I really couldn't tolerate something that little, the Civic would have high enough resale that I could ditch it without losing my shirt, and I can go running back to the welcoming morrokide, velour, and fine Co-rrrrrin-thian leather of the cars I'm used to. :P
I would say if a person has a bad engine and transmission, they would be less than impressed with that car, and not be buying that car or company again, or is that soon. Be it domestic or foreign, if a car has major problems, as described, then it would indeed be foolish to be happy with that product no matter how much they like the other features. Well, that is until they are sure about a turn-around. What you described are also the problems people had with there GM back when. You are now saying they should not forgive and forget?
Looking at car reliability records, some like the CTS look promising, while other cars made by the same manufacturer do not. I would pick the car as well as the company. Say a new Camry has some transmission problems, or a squeak or whatever, then don't buy it. See if it is improved later on, of simply buy some other product.
I don't like the high door sills and the interior has some fit-up issues to the look of the interior. Currently there is nothing in the line of Toyota or Nissan which I am remotely interested in. Doesn't mean I would never buy a car made by those companies down the road. Doesn't mean there are not people simply in love with the cars they now produce. Best to critique all cars before buying. Find out the faults, as well as, what you will enjoy about the car.
Loren
I dunno, I'm really starting to lose faith in GM. Last week I found a loose screw on the floor in the back seat of my '76 LeMans when I took it to the car show. I dunno where it fell out of. I tell ya, they don't build these things like they used to! :shades:
See, that does prove it. If you'd bought a Honda Civic (600?) or Camry (I know, they weren't here yet-maybe a Fiat) you wouldn't have had to worry about the screw. The whole car would have rusted away from around the screw!!!
Things aren't like they were for either group of cars. I watch all the GM cars from the 90s, early 90s, and late 80s running around here in Midwest. They're not being babied like they have any problems. They must have 150-250K on most of them by now since they're 15 years and older.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Corolla was OK, but I didn't feel it was a quantum leap over a Cobalt. The radio and center stack look better than that of a Cobalt, but there were other things like really flimsy sun visors with visible flash and rough edges. The car felt like it hesitated during acceleration. It was kind of dangerous merging onto Rte 309 South coming out of the Ft. Washington toll plaza of the PA Turnpike. It's situations like that you need instant power.
The Mitsubishi Galant has a weird-looking exterior with a pretty cool interior. Trouble is, the car feels very tinny. This became pretty evident when I closed the decklid. I felt like it was going to bend and it closed with a resounding "clang." I did like the cool blue backlighting to the gauges. The controls feel cheap, but are nicely designed.
The Volkswagen Jetta GLI has a really, really nice interior! If Cobalts looked this good inside, people would be busting down the doors of the Chevrolet dealer to buy one. The performance was amazing and the car seemed to be pretty well-built. However, I've smashed into the reef listening to the VW siren song before and seen other dashed against the rocks before and after me. An ex-girlfriend and I got a new 1994 Jetta and that car was nice...when it ran which was every other Tuesday. Another guy bought a new 2000 Jetta and it was so bad he traded it the following year for a new Saturn!
I don't recall at this time. It's taken a lot of therapy, but I have finally been able to eradicate any and all memory of that nasty little car. :P
Seriously, it wasn't THAT bad! Here's a few of my thoughts on it...
Good fuel economy. The one time I actually checked, it got around 37.4 mpg in mostly highway driving, with speeds varying from 65-80. To be honest though, since it was my uncle's car and not mine, I was pretty gentle driving it. I tried not to accelerate too hard, ease up to cruising speed, etc. However, I haven't spent much time behind the wheel of any other small cars, so I really can't compare their fuel economy.
Excellent back seat room and trunk space for a smallish car.
Fairly quiet at highway speeds. It's no noisier than my 2000 Intrepid, and at any given speed, engine revs at about the same rpm. It's fairly smooth for a small car, but there's still no way to hide the fact that it's a small car. On some of those hills and valleys between Baltimore and Harrisburg, I had to get a really good running start going down one hill, if I wanted to get up the next hill without any fuss. The car's not a good downhill coaster...it just doesn't build up momentum.
IMO, the biggest shortcoming of this car is the front seat comfort. My uncle's Corolla is the cheap CE model, with limited seat adjustments. I've sat in nicer models that have a lever that sort of ratchets the back part of the seat down, giving it more of an angle, which helps with legroom and thigh support. In cheap CE guise though, well, a Gremlin probably has a better seating position! It starts to hurt my butt and legs after about 10 minutes. In comparison, my Intrepid takes about 45 minutes. My '76 LeMans takes about an hour, but doesn't bother my legs because it has better thigh support than the Corolla or Intrepid.
Another odd thing about the Corolla is that it forces me to lean inward toward the center console a bit. I think it's because of the way the roof curves in, and the fact that it's a narrower car. If I sit up straight, it just feels like the window and B-pillar and such are too close to my head, and the A-pillar is out too far into my field of view. It's like I have to lean inward a bit to put the A-pillar in the same frame of reference to where it would be with a bigger, wider car.
Ventillation on the Corolla is very weak. On the highest fan setting, it's about the equivalent of the second-highest setting on the GM and Mopar cars I've had with 4-speed fans. Interior materials aren't too bad, although the fabric on the door panels makes me think of the texture of a tongue. They also do a pretty good job at making some of the interior materials look soft. You have to touch them before realizing they're just hard plastic. And I don't know if I should blame Toyota for this or my uncle, as he can be rough on things, but the little change drawer to the left of the steering wheel and one of the little storage doors on the center console are both broken.
And the car doesn't really squeak or rattle, with around 140,000 miles on it, but there's a spot on the dash just under the radio, where two different trim pieces come together, and going down the road they jiggle at a different frequency. I noticed it when I went to press a button on the radio and missed, and put my finger on that spot, and felt an odd vibration.
As for handling and the supposed nimbleness of a smaller car, I really saw no advantage there. I'm used to bigger cars, which have a more substantial, well-planted feel on the road, so what some people may call nimble, to me this thing just felt nervous and jittery. I found the blind spots pretty bad, too, so that hampered its maneuverability, IMO. However, I feel a blind spot is something you can become used to. My Intrepid has plenty of them, but since I'm used to them, I know how to work around them. If I drove this Corolla enough, I'd get used to them as well.
As for acceleration, I'd say it's about as fast as my Intrepid, but you have to punch the Corolla a little harder, and it's going to rely on the lower gears more than my Intrepid would.
Overall, I'd say the Corolla's not a bad car, but it's also what I'd call a "hittable target" for the competition. There's really nothing magical or paradigm-shifting about it. But it's also been on the market in its current guise for over 5 years (my uncle got this one Memorial Day weekend, 2002), so it's not exactly the latest and greatest.
Loren
Loren
My Mom bought a new '75 LeMans coupe back in the day, and to be honest, it was pretty tired by 1980 when she traded it on a new Malibu coupe. I remember the thing needing a new distributor when it was only a year or two old. Dad wrecked it in 1977, and after that, it just never did run right. I don't think it ever broke down and left us stranded, but once fuel prices started going up and the stuff was getting scarce, Mom got tired of feeding that pig. She got around 15-16 mpg with it, whereas the Malibu, in her type of driving, got around 22 or so.
The LeMans didn't have any rust on it that I recall, but by the time it was 5 years old, it just looked ANCIENT. It was big and curvy and had round headlights, and was this loud persimmon-bronze color. We never had any problems finding that car in the mall parking lot! In contrast, the Malibu was small (for the time, and even today, an '80 Malibu is only about the size of an Accord or Camry), angular, had rectangular headlights, and was a much more muted shade of medium blue. I remember Mom was so used to that LeMans, which stuck out like a sore thumb, that she'd often "lose" the Malibu in the mall parking lot!
GM definitely put a lot more effort into their bigger cars back then, and probably still does today. As for my '76 LeMans though, in all seriousness, I think the reason it lasted so long was mainly because it had a succession of owners that WANTED it to last a long time. It was taken care of pretty well, and is almost rust-free, except where some bubbling is coming out on the upper quarter panels, at the edge of the vinyl roof.
- My Dad's Century with it's ABS light going on and off at 15k
- My brother's broken moonroof on his Regal
- My sister's Cobalt having the ignition module replaced twice
once again, people have no tolerance for ANY problems with domestic vehicles. I dont call a flashing ABS light a reliability problem. reliability means failed trannies, engines that wont start, failed electronics, failed power accessories, etc. You think a Century is a piece of crap because the ABS light flashed at 15K miles?
How about water leaks, failed AC and failed power locks on a 2002 camry? How would you classify that?
my parents Intrigue has a moonroof that hasnt had any leaks or malfunctions in 9 years of ownership. I have never known of any tranny problems on any GM products in my immediate family.
1995 was a long time ago, time to pay attention to current offerings and reliability stats.
Toyota's arent fun to drive and yet people will forgive any amount of problems and still swear off domestics for life. Your theory doesnt line up with reality. People in America HATE domestic cars with a passion and it has little to do with reason and logic. There are tens of millions of people who think they are too smart to be seen driving a domestic and will not consider one.
Businessweek wrote an article about the new design processes at GM in relation to the Malibu and they got hate mail from readers who wanted to make it clear GM didnt get it and would never get their money. People hate GM so much they get offended if they read anything positive about thec company. Go to the GM blog where Lutz posts to see some of the stuff GM haters post on there, its like a religion.
We see some of that on Edmunds, don't we. Do you have a link to the blog?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
easier said than done, I find that most import owners have no intentions of every buying anything domestic regardless of quality or performance. While they will always act like the decision is based on fact, image is a huge part of the equation. Most import heavy parts of the country see domestics as lower class and unhip EVEN though domestic brands typically design more stylish cars than their import counterparts. I mean who would ever argue that Toyota or HOnda can style a car better than GM or even Chrysler. Even recent Ford designs blow those two out of the water and that is sad.
Import owners can continue to buy cars based on CR recommendations and the opinions of their friends but I will consider anything in my price range that looks good to me. Quality is close amongst brands today and resale value is not critical to me since I will be paying less for the car up front. When people get on their soapbox about resale value they dont mention that resale values are based on MSRPs and you arent paying MSRP for a domestic. They also dont mention that you will be paying more for an import and spending money on financing for that extra borrowing. In the end the gap isnt all that big. This is why people dont really talk actual dollar figures when bragging about resale value, they just focus on residual values.
can you provide some examples? Hard to accept your argument when you consider:
a) Gm is expanding hybrids while HOnda is scaling back and Nissan only has one available in 8 states
b) GM has more 6 speed autos available on non luxury products than Toyota and HOnda makes ZERO 6 speeds for the US market
c) GM is the leader in cylinder shut down technology'
d) Recent GM designs have been better than anything Toyota or Honda is putting out
e) GM has established bonified performance cars of late including the V series cadillcs and the Z06. Honda, Nissan and Toyota have nothing to compete with these cars
f) Gm is now launching a DI 300hp V6 ahead of MB, Audi and Acura.
g) GM arguably makes the best full size trucks, the best large SUVs and the best large crossovers on the market.
Where is the competition taking 2 steps to GM's 1 exactly?
I hear that one about domestics belonging to "lower-class people." "Oh, you drive a Cadillac. Are you a successful plumbing contractor?" "No, I'm in trucking and waste management!" I see it more as imports belonging to pretentious poseurs trying to keep up with the Joneses while failing to realize the Joneses are up to their eyeballs in debt. If I lived in one of the "import-heavy" areas, I'd be sure to buy something like a 1958 Buick Roadmaster as my daily driver to deliberately offend all my yuppie (censored) neighbors!
actually they were not accurate. You made the point that the G5 wasnt competitive by listing a bunch of "shortcomings" that are actually quite common for the class. The Civic is a better car (as it should be since its newer) but that doesnt make the G5 a lousy car by any means. You also failed to mention any of the features offered on the G5 that are lacking on the civic.
Before I got jumped, let me say this. I think the domestics have improved the interior of their products tremendously. The Aura and Fusions interiors are like night and day comparing to the old LS300 and Taurus' and I am REALLY looking forward to see the new Malibu's in person (it does look good from the pictures). However, since I was being spoiled by having a 1990 Acura Legend as my first car then follow by the 1992 & 1997 Honda Accord, my standard for the interior has been set pretty high I'd say. I think the current Aura and Fusion is equal with Camry and Altima in terms of interior fit-n'-finish and quality but still lag behind style-wise (of course, IMO). Accord, OTOH is in a class of its own...
Sorry but I fail to see what great style you find in the interiors of the Camry and Altima. The Altima's interior is actually very similar to the G6's if you look at the two. The camry has nice fancy blue lighting but in the daytime its pretty dull and overwhelmed by the silver faux metallic trim that Toyota loves so much. The accord has a nice head unit and radio info display but is dull otherwise. I do agree that the Fusion's interior is pretty dull. I dont find the interior of the Aura, Impala, Lacrosse, Milan or 2008 Malibu to be worse looking than the average Japanese car. There was a difference ten years ago, but now I just dont see it.
In a word, yes. People being upside-down on their loans for domestic vehicles probably keeps them away from new vehicles also.
How bout the air conditioning on those? The transmissions? Any problems at all? Rust?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
:surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
Naah, cars don't need working brake systems. :sick:
The flashing light just meant the ABS wouldn't work. BUT, as you well know, the regular braking system works just fine. It's like when the motor dies while driving a car and the power steering is gone but the regular steering works fine.
It's probably a sensor problem or the wire or the connection to the sensor at the wheel.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,